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Ultimate Battle (PFRPG)

5.00/5 (based on 3 ratings)
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Master the battlefield like never before!

This rules supplement delves into mass combat with the same verve and creativity as its companion product, Ultimate Rulership does to the more peaceable aspects of ruling a kingdom. From advanced tactics and strategy to casualties and prisoners of war, Ultimate Battle takes you from ambush to aftermath with new systems for camouflage and scouting, casualties and prisoners of war, tactical initiative and battle zones, and commanders and mercenaries. In addition, it provides you with expansions of existing rules, including new equipment and dozens of new tactics, command boons, and creature and character special abilities help bring almost any army to life, and robust rules for battlefield conditions from terrain and weather to visibility and the fog of war. This terrific expansion to the mass combat rules found in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Ultimate Campaign rulebook contains everything you need to recruit, train, equip, maintain, and unleash your armies on the battlefield like never before, with 14 brand-new tactics including Cavalry Sweep, Pike Square, and Strafing Skirmishers; 24 new command boons like Death Before Dishonor, Implacable Advance, and Master Recruiter; 21 types of army equipment from firearms to magic shields, chariots to howdahs; and 51 army special abilities, including abilities for armies comprised of PC classes.

Pick up this 38-page PDF today to bring amazing depth and dimension to mass combat in your campaign and Make Your Game Legendary!

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5.00/5 (based on 3 ratings)

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Very Impresive

5/5 —

My group found the refinements found in this book, to Ultimate Campaigns' mass combat system, easy to use and to understand. I personally found the refinements to army creation far less of a headache then I was anticipating.

Well done

An Endzeitgeist.com review

5/5 —

After the superb "Ultimate Rulership", this would be the second one of Legendary Games‘ offerings to expand the rules of "Ultimate Campaign". Page-count-wise, this pdf is 38 pages long, 1 page front cover, 2 pages of editorial, 1 page SRD, 1 page ToC, 1 page introduction, 3 pages of advertisement, 1 page back cover, leaving us with 28 pages of content, so let’s take a look, shall we?

So, what do we get here? Essentially, an expansion of the mass combat rules used in Ultimate Campaign. We begin with a short summary of four zones: Camp zone, which is the “base” of the army, command zone, from where the battle is dictated, melee zone and ranged zone – said zones are abstract and not geographically distinct entities. Now first, we get a fixing of strategy – 5 types of strategy may be changed in lesser degrees without morale checks, in greater degrees with a morale check penalized by a number equal to the steps a strategy is changed. Each strategy has positive and negative influence on OM and DV (Offense Modifiers and Defensive Value) and also includes a casualty-modifier that applies to damage dealt to you and your enemies – best of all, this system fixes the doubling effect in the default standard rules for a more concise and strategic flux of battle. Two thumbs up!

Now the battle is grouped in phases – a tactical phase in which commanders issue strategy and special tactics followed by the ranged phase, the melee phase and finally, the rout phase, where morale may see units routed and broken. In the tactical phase, commanders compare their Profession (Soldier)-skill-checks: The winner reveals his strategy after the loser, allowing the commander to better adjust on the fly to an opponent’s gambits. Furthermore, by exceeding an enemy commander’s check by 5 or more, the commander can force the hostile army to reveal one of the tactics available to the army. In the ranged phase, armies may attack (via ranged weapons), advance or hold their position. Rather awesome – concise, easy to use information is given on how to handle difficult terrain like trenches, cities etc., with the DV of the structures determining the challenge. We also, thankfully, get rules for friendly fire with ranged weapons – nice catch here!

The rules for the melee phase have been changed as well – unlike in the standard rules, melee is not a constant whacking, but instead sees both armies checking for routs after attacking each, with the next round approaching. THANK YOU. The default made no sense and resulted in bland exchanging of whack-a-mole-rolls until one army falls – I much prefer this solution! Now on to the rout phase: At the end of a melee phase, the bashing is not repeated: Instead, armies check for morale – those that fail have their morale score reduced. Upon reaching zero morale, a loyalty-check may reset the score to 1, but sees the army fleeing, whereas a failed loyalty check sees the army disband – and yes, said loyalty-checks come with heavy cumulative penalties. Now being routed is bad – as any Warhammer-player knows, and while in these rules, the fleeing army has a chance to regroup to the camp zone, said escape is anything but guaranteed. Sounding a general retreat is also possible, but also carries a morale penalty with it – still, fighting another day is preferable to annihilation… Also neat: Mercenary armies and their lack of penalties for the kingdom upon being routed also get a sort mentioning. This chapter fixes just about all of the rough edges the system in Ultimate Campaign had in favor of a more dynamic and versatile combat – AWESOME!

Now, as you probably know, historic armies almost never fought until total annihilation – hence, we are introduced to the army conditions: Bloodied, Defeated, Destroyed and Disbanded. Bloodied armies can only be “cured” by reforming it and the condition is applied every time an army drops below half its hit points, reducing the ACR by 1 for all intents and purposes – and yes, this penalty is cumulative. Defeated armies have 10% dead, 1d4x10% severely wounded members and can be taken prisoner – these armies had their hp reduced to 0. Destroyed armies result from defeated armies – upon being attacked by the enemy (at -2 to their DV, ouch!) and if the enemy is at least half its size, the battered, defeated army is destroyed for all intents and purposes – 1d6x10% dead, 1d4x10% severely wounded and the rest deserted. To add insult to injury, the kingdom incurs a penalty of 1 to fame and the city from which it was recruited may demand a monument for the fallen. Now disbanded armies (failed morale and loyalty checks) have a devastating effect on morale of allied armies and also result in population-loss for the kingdom – 50% leave for safer, greener pastures. The kingdom also loses stability, fame and loyalty and the recruitment city incurs a penalty of -2 to law. OUCH!

Now fatigue in battle is covered as well as the topic of healing after battle- all tied neatly together with available buildings (herbalists and alchemists help just as cathedrals etc. do – neat!) and disease as one of the great agents of the reaper also becomes a factor: The factor of plagues is detailed as well herein and results in even more death – and strategy, of course! Holding that hospital suddenly seems like a very worthwhile endeavor! Have I mentioned the concise and cool rules for Parley (and breaking the temporary truce?) – nice indeed!

Now we also get tactics – quite a few of them, actually: Want to execute a cavalry sweep, for example? It allows you to have your army attack two hostile armies in one battle phase, but at OM – 4 and DV -2 and only half the damage – still, at times surely an option that proves to be useful. Covering Fire, an onslaught that is particularly reckless (and casualty-prone/bad for DV, but also superb for offense), pursuing foes, initiating pincer-maneuvers, creating "Landsknechtshaufen", i.e. pike hedgehogs, strafing skirmishers – the tactics available should more than positively influence engagements, allowing for a much more varied and cool combat between individual armies and also offer cool additional incentives to keep well-trained veteran units around.

Now sooner or later the die has been literally cast and the battle won or lost – so in the aftermath of victory, further options abound: From the historically accurate paying of ransom money to the execution of enemy leaders, the attrition of manpower and the option to pillage and plunder the countryside, intern soldiers or recruit forced labor – a lot of different options allow an army to follow distinct lines in their conduct with others, potentially shaping the reputation of the kingdom they adhere to. And yes, for the more morally, let’s say…flexible commanders, committing massacres is also a distinct possibility, though one that should be well contemplated.

Now another issue of mass combat as displayed in the standard-rules would be that it breaks apart as soon as an army e.g. consists of few, but powerful adversaries – be they dragons or stone giants. Thankfully, the pdf actually offers an incredibly easy and yet concise, sensible solution to the issue by allowing for even armies of one and similar small-sized armies – complete with equipment, camouflage and ACR-modification. This is not only brilliant; it is all but REQUIRED. Thank you so very much!

The effect of a general of other great leaders present on the field of battle and a kingdom’s overall disposition also now feature in the complex equation of mass-combat, with the superb rules from Ultimate Rulership thankfully also being addressed – this is synergy of the type I love and expect. How is the influence of great commanders displayed? Via the leadership bonus, which depends on the skill ranks in Profession (soldier) and e.g. the leadership score, but less so on magical improvements – headbands of intellect and similar ways of metagaming the skill up only are half as effective.

Now the easiest way to expand these rules may be the addition of new boons since they are based on the capabilities of characters and soldiers – and hence we also get an array of boons. And oh boy, are they oozing flavor – Take "Death before Dishonor" or the offense specialists that benefit from an "Implacable Advance", AoE/channel negative energy adding the option for magical barrages or allowing units to heal themselves: These boons are awesome, even more so since they can be made permanent for a vast array of different tricks, specializations and distinct elite-units.

Now armies don’t grow on trees as you might know and while Ultimate Rulership has delivered vastly superior recruitment rules (both standard and UR are covered here), this book adds another facet: Recruits are not yet soldiers – they cost a kingdom and need to be equipped, trained etc. And yes, equipping chariots, howdahs, mounts, magical armors, siege weaponry, weapons of different quality – all that and so much more becomes possible with these rules – all while remaining sensible with building-requirements, fitting all together like a concise, well-oiled rules-machinery. This is not all, though – reserve armies by building and yes, even a vast array of special abilities, from spawn creation to breath weapons await your command, resulting in even more varied armies that should bring the wonder and distinct differences between forces to the front.

Now whether it’s for a "Chain of Dogs"-like scenario or simply for a situation akin to Sabaton’s "The Price of a Mile" – marching armies and pushing them forwards is no easy task and this supplement also covers rules for marching armies: Camouflage, ambushes, supply trans, living off the land – all covered! The same holds true for difficult terrains, rules for visibility and even weather and high altitudes! The pdf concludes with an index of the pdf’s tables.

Conclusion:

Editing and formatting are top-notch, I didn’t notice any significant glitches. Layout adheres to Legendary Games unobtrusive two-column standard and we get beautiful full-color one-page spreads of three artworks by Tim Kings-Lynne and Mike Lowe alongside depictions of various banners and crests. The pdf comes fully bookmarked and in two versions, with the second one being more printer-friendly.

Jason Nelson, as one of the masterminds behind Ultimate Campaign’s rules and head-honcho of Legendary Games dives head-first into a supplement that had me skeptical at best on first sight: The page-count is simply not that impressive. Add to that the fact that the rules in Ultimate Campaign, by virtue of the limited space available and the variety of topics covered fell short of their potential and we have a supplement that had anything but an easy standing with me. I’ve long been into mass combat, coming to pen and paper roleplaying via the route of Warhammer, but so far, neither Adamant Entertainment’s mass combat rules, nor 3.X’s Cry Havoc did it for me and Ultimate Campaign, while better, also fell short of my expectations in that regard.

Until now. This pdf is PLATINUM. Not gold, platinum. It irons out many of the issues of the basic system. It provides superior synergy with both standard rules and Ultimate Rulership. It expands the tactical options exponentially. It covers all the topics, from marches to commanders to special qualities and manages to end the rather trite attrition-rolling of mass combat melee in favor of a much more rewarding and tactical solution. This, ladies and gentlemen, is not only required. Anyone using mass combat without this book should really contemplate to stop now and shell out the bucks. I have almost never in my career as a reviewer witnessed a pdf so densely-packed with crucial coolness - concisely-written, Jason Nelson delivers mass combat as it ought to be: Abstract, but challenging and strategic – with this supplement, true strategic showdowns, complex military operations and desperate gambits all become possible. This pdf allows you to create brilliant battles of wits between enemy commanders and the PCs on a level that was, with the basic system, unthinkable. What we have here is a candidate for my Top Ten of 2013, a required purchase and a book that should be part of any PFRPG-DM’s library if s/he is only remotely interested in either Kingmaker or any other form of mass combat – final verdict? Unsurprising 5 stars + seal of approval, given without even the remotest hesitation. Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war!

Endzeitgeist out.

Sound the Call to Arms!

5/5 —

Ultimate Battle is a book/PDF for Legendary Games' Ultimate Plug-Ins line, meant for use in any sort of a campaign. As the name suggests it expands widely on the mass combat rules from Ultimate Campaign. Be warned, you WILL need them to properly use this.

The PDF proper has about 36 pages, of which 30 or so are devoted to the actual new and expanded rules. First is the 'Field of Battle' section, covering battles proper. It slightly reworks the casualties taken and inflicted by the various strategies to reduce the doubling effect granted by the bonuses and penalties to OM and DV already grant. It also divides the battlefield up into various zones (Camp, Command, Ranged, and Melee) to abstractly display just where the armies are in relation to each other.

It adds a Rout phase to the battle turn, which is when units check their morale to see if they keep fighting, run, give up, or whatever. It also expands on the three other phases as well -- Tactics now allows you to change your battle plan from turn to turn to respond to enemy actions, which is made easier by skill in Profession [soldier] (very realistic!); you can advance as well as fire and hold your ground in the Ranged phase. And if you shoot into a melee, better be careful not to hit your own troops! Melee phase is much as described in UC. But it is followed by the Rout phase, in which armies can be driven off if their morale is damaged enough. And if some of your units run, in a very real-world fashion others will take hits to their morale that may send them fleeing as well. You can also sound a retreat to pull out of the battle at this point. Just better hope the enemy doesn't pursue!

It also expands on the rules for armies that lose. They can be bloodied (damaged but still capable of fighting, especially if they get reinforcements), defeated (take losses and can be taken prisoner, attacked anew, or simply massacred as the victor desires), destroyed (like defeated but worse, as your country also takes damage from the loss), and disbanded (everyone runs away and half of them leave the country in shame, your other armies suffer hits to morale, and both the unit's home city AND your country suffer from it). One little touch I like is that if you try recruiting an army nearby a battle where enemy forces disbanded, you can get a one-time Loyalty bonus for recruiting because some of the defeated enemy troops join up. Once again, this is a bit of real-world history here!

There are expanded rules for dealing with fatigued troops and post-battle healing, as well as a very nasty and realistic threat of disease. It also allows you to attempt Parley to offer surrender, demand surrender, or simply bluster at each other.

UB then gives us a section on tactics both new and old. This is one of my favorite parts of the whole PDF. You can now use cavalry and light troops as skirmishers, make a Pike Block to defend other troops, flank and feint enemy units, retreat from battle or pursue someone else who retreats. Really you can do just about anything that could be done in a real battle with this rules. This section by itself is worth the price of the entire book to me.

Then we get the victory and aftermath of battles. You can take enemy commanders hostage, or execute them, or duel them. All of these have effects on both you and your kingdom beyond the battlefield. For instance, get a name for executing enemy leaders and you start adding Infamy to you and your nations' name. It also gives rules for how battlefield losses and victories affect both surviving armies and your nation. Losing soldiers not only affects how big an army you can have but also hurts your nation's Economy, Loyalty, and Stability. You can also plunder an enemy or be plundered, which not only adds (or costs) wealth in the form of BPs but can destroy buildings and terrain improvements. It also gives you options for what you can do with both POWs and captured civilians, ranging from use as forced labor to internment to simply massacring them all. Again, all of these have effects on both your nation and you, with some of them providing a little wealth but most of them costing in either Consumption or reputation.

Next is a section on Building Armies. Once again, it greatly expands on the rules given in UC, with new rules covering the size and CR of armies. The size of a troop is also enlarged when dealing with creatures with a CR below 1, which at the high levels (regiments, brigades, and legions) can lead to some gigantic forces.

The roles UC gives to both Commanders and Command Boons are expanded as well, with skill at both command and combat playing a greater role in determining your ability at generalship as well as how many armies your kingdom can have. It also provides some new Command Boons, including a few shifted over from Tactics in UC such as Cavalry Experts and Expert Flankers because it's felt that boons better represent a unit's training versus tricks anyone can use in battle. There are way too many new Boons for me to go into here -- suffice to say that you can pretty much do anything you can imagine with them and the new tactics, leading to very flexible battle plans.

It also provides new rules for recruiting and equipping armies. They both cost a little more than the rules in UC but also provide more flexibility for armies and commanders alike. You also can train troops after recruiting and even hire mercenaries, which is a quicker way to get skilled veteran troops provided they stay loyal. UB give us a pretty solid list of various items of equipment you can provide for your troops. Everything from Chariots to Howdahs to Reach Weapons to even Firearms and various Siege Weapons (the latter including cannons, bombards, and war wagons). There are rules for what it costs to keep armies active and in reserve, as well as complications concerning supply lines. This section ends with an expansion on the Special Abilities from UC.

The last part has a section covering troops on the march, with everything from scouting to forced marches to ambushes and living off the land getting some detail. We also get guidelines for how things like terrain, visibility, and weather can affect a battle.

Really, if you like mass combat that feels like real-world battles, you WILL want this PDF. If you like your mass combat very simple and abstract you might want to stick to the basic rules in UC, though even then this book can introduce some complications that can be used as the background in adventures. For instance, what if your camp gets plundered by troops gathering supplies while you're in the dungeon, or your home town gets hit by plague after sickened troops pass through? It is a GREAT PDF if you like this sort of detail the way I do. I'll say 4.5 stars because not everyone uses the mass combat rules, but if you do this will be a tremendous help, so up to 5 for my final rating.

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Heine Stick wrote:
Very cool. I'm hoping to have the characters in my Wrath of the Righteous campaign be able to participate in battles in this fashion, and, while I'm currently working with the troop subtype, I'm always on the lookout for fun mechanics to represent this concept. :)

Interesting. This may help quite a bit.

Has anyone use a small troop of spellcasters? or CR 3-6 with area of effect attacks (i.e. breath weapon)?

*edit*

The scenarios I am planning on running involve a group of PCs that have hit 20th level (long running game), at least three of them have maxed Leadership score of 25, plus doing the "Leadership Chain" (Cohort has leadership to have a cohort that has leadership to have a cohort that has leadership to have, etc. etc. etc)

This results with a single PC having a horde of followers in the mid-100's.

The goal is to retake a kingdom (i.e. Cyre) that was destroyed and rebuild it from the ground up, so kingdom rules will be used eventually. But until the kingdom has been refounded, they will have to kick out a militaristic prophet and his horde of like-minded followers (i.e. the Lord of Blades).

The party is wanting to fight along side their followers, rather than lead from the rear. And the numbers involved are in the tens to hundreds, not thousands, so I am looking for rules that cover that.
Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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A bit tardy in getting around to it, but Endy's review has been crossposted, highlighted, linked to, and generally pimped like crazy on our website, as well as on our various Facebook, G+, and Twitter outlets! Thanks again for the wonderful review, Endy!
Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

Should you be interested in checking out this product but weren't sure about the price even after Endy's review, tomorrow is your lucky day - ULTIMATE MONDAY AWAITS!

Your link is broken. ^.^
Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

Lame!

This should work!

Webstore Gninja Minion

Print/PDF Bundle now available!
Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

Thanks Liz!

How long is a complete battle phase?
Krell wrote:
How long is a complete battle phase?

On page 4 of my print copy, right under 'Battle Phases', it says that typical battle phases take a total of 1d6 hours.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

Yes, Eric has it right. It is intentionally left abstract and fluid. If you don't want to roll randomly, you could just arbitrarily rule that three battle phases represents one day worth of battle.

And that makes a ton of sense, I think. Mass combat shouldn't be tied down by a set number of seconds, minutes, or hours. Setting a specific period of time for each battle phase makes little sense due to the many variables involved in mass combat (element of surprise, size of armies, terrain and weather, efficient tactics, etc.).

Hell, even the period of time between the end of one battle phase and the beginning of the next can vary, based on the GM's narrative needs, I reckon.
Shadow Lodge
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber

Any more news on Ultimate War? Haven't seem amy news on this or your own site.
Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

We'll be beginning our SUMMER SPECTACULAR previews and announcements today, so stay tuned!
Jason Nelson wrote:
We'll be beginning our SUMMER SPECTACULAR previews and announcements today, so stay tuned!

This is good to hear. I'm looking forward to the announcement!

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

My Wrath of the Righteous game just wrapped up book 1, so I have been reading Ultimate Battle in preparation to use it in book 2. I hit the new army size rules, and I wanted to make sure I'm understanding correctly.

In Sword of Valor, the PCs get an army of 100 4th level, CR 3 paladins. Under the basic Ultimate Campaign rules, that makes it a Medium army with ACR 3.

But under Ultimate Battle, the army becomes a battalion with ACR 9, meaning its OM, hp, etc. are much higher. Is that correct? OM +14, 49 hp, rather than 16 & +8.

Thanks.

Not sure if this is the right place to post them, but while going through my copy I noticed a number of mistakes:

On page 11 the paragraph titled "Army Size" ends prematurely:

Ultimate Battle, pg. 11 wrote:


However, when the same adventure presents an entire fortress surrounded by giant armies, the otherwise impressive-sounding totals of 32 hill giants (ACR 3, 13 hp), 46 ogres (ACR 1, 4 hp), 11 stone giant maidens (ACR 2, 9 hp), and three armies of around 20 hill giants each (two ACR 4, 18 hp armies of 25, one ACR 2, 9 hp).

On page 12 the section on "Command Limit" has the same problem:

Ultimate Battle, pg. 12 wrote:


If you are using the Command Limit rules presented here, you should advise.

Among the Command Boons is "Magical Barrage", in the equipment part "Siege Engines, Heavy" references "Magical Bombardment" instead. (Magical Barrage is also used in Ultimate War, so I assume this was just a name change?).

In table 5, in the "Special" column the last three entries should probably move down by one line.

Under "Special Abilities", "Create Spawn" looks like this:

Ultimate Battle, pg. 23 wrote:


Create Spawn: If an army with the energy drain ability destroys a living humanoid army of equal or greater size, it may add a new unit of its own type to itself; an army with 5 units already cannot create spawn.

I guess this is a leftover reference to the combined arms rules later added in Ultimate War? I haven't really looked at those rules in detail yet. Does this mean that armies with create spawn can essentially "heal" lost units?

I really like the book though and I'm looking forward to try out some mass combat in my campaign soon. I'm a little unsure about how to construct an appropriate challenge for a given army, but since that is not really specific to this book (at least I think its not) a made a separate thread for that question here.

Now that I have done a few test combats (using the armies linked in my post above) I have a few questions:

The way I understand the morale rules each army should make a morale check every round, correct? This lead me to some weird results with the most capable army on one side fleeing (and disbanding!) even though it did respectable damage and did not take any losses. Those were some admittedly poor rolls, but with the low values of the leadership bonuses and no other source for higher morale values most armies can take one failed morale check at best. Unfortunately this makes the outcome of a battle more or less independent of the strength of the armies taking part in it!

Are newly created armies still supposed to start out at Morale 0? I saw nothing that changes this, on the other hand the Rout phase resets them to Morale 1 if they flee.

Is there some other source of higher morale values I overlooked? The table for morale modifiers doesn't list a lot and since I'm not (yet) using kingdom building winning battles seems to be the only way.

I'm also a little confused over melee combat. If two armies enter melee do they both get an attack and a counter attack? With the rules in Ultimate Campaign that would seem reasonable since an army that was attacked should be able to attack another unrelated army, but with the addition of engagement resolving all melees twice per round seems wrong to me.

Lastly, if I have a melee-only army that I want to use to attack some archers can I move during the ranged phase to attack them by advancing? Does the army of archers I attack then essentially move into the melee zone?

This may like an odd question to ask: what is the Morale check DC to recover from fatigue? On page seven, in the second paragraph under the heading of Fatigue, it is mentioned that an army can attempt a Morale check to recover from fatigue but never actually states what is the DC. Is there a base DC value for any Morale checks that is not explicitly defined? I checked Ultimate Campaign as well and I did not see one listed there.

On a related topic, what is the Morale check DC to avoid fatigue/exhaustion brought on by extreme conditions, such as hot/cold climates? Ultimate Battle mentions there is such a Morale check required to avoid the fatigue/exhaustion, but also does not indicate what is the exact DC.

Finally, just to clarify, am I correct in guessing that for determining Tactical Initiative, it is just the generals of the armies that check to see who wins the Tactical Initiative? Thus we do not need to roll for each army unit's commander of every army on the battlefield?

I hope to find some answers to my queries because it has been driving me nuts - I thought I had overlooked something, somewhere.

Kudos to everyone who worked on Ultimate Battle - the reviewers were quite accurate in regards to this product's utility in a Kingdom Building campaign.

Cheers!

CB out.

*Bump*

Yeesh, I didn't even notice that about morale checks to recover from fatigue/exhaustion until Canadian Bakka brought it up. Anyone got any ideas?
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Referencing Ultimate Campaign, the most common Morale Check DC is a 15. I saw mention of a DC 20, and a DC 10+ opponent's ACR as well however.

I would probably make it a 15.

/suggestion only.
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I also just noticed now that the special abilities Paralysis and Petrification also require a Morale check at the beginning of the next Rout Phase for any affected army unit if they wish to reduce the penalties caused by either affliction by 1. No set DC was given either for these abilities.

Although I have not yet tested my ideas, for the Morale checks to recover from fatigue/exhaustion and to avoid fatigue caused by extreme conditions I set the base DC at 15, with the added note that the DC for extreme conditions increases by 1 for each consecutive completed Battle Rounds to signify the difficulty in continuing on the battlefield in such harsh weather conditions.

For the paralysis and petrification, maybe a DC of 15?

I also did a bit tinkering here and there - Ultimate Battle and Ultimate Rulership are virtual gold mines and I am also adding in Alexander Agunas' work in The Leadership Handbook together for my current Kingmaker campaign. A heck of a lot of work but worth every hour spent on it.

CB out.

EDIT: some minor spelling correction above.
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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'd set paralysis and petrifaction at 10+ACR of the army that caused it (see the Fear ability).

I like your fatigue/exhaustion numbers.

So unless we can get Jason Nelson to throw in his two cents, that seems pretty fair.

Also, I wholeheartedly agree: UBat, URule (and UWar) are great with the Leadership Handbook running alongside them.
RPG Superstar 2009, Contributor

Jason may be busy with some Easter-related holiday plans, but I suspect he'll come along and offer his insights fairly soon.
Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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Hi guys,

Interesting that in all those pages such a simple thing seems to have slipped through! The presumptive default for Morale checks should be DC 15.

If you want more granularity, you can adjust it to DC 10 for relatively commonplace or non-challenging checks (like recovering from typical fatigue or difficult conditions), DC 15 for more difficult or life-threatening checks (avoid routing in battle, extreme conditions), and DC 20 would be for rare or exceptionally difficult checks.

Thanks for the kind words, folks. Writing this series has been a lot of work but I'm very pleased with the positive reception and look forward to continuing to produce more books in this line.

Much obliged for your insights, good sir. The only reason I caught those omissions earlier was due to combing over the work with a fine toothbrush - it's a necessary skill for anyone who is brave enough (read: foolish enough) to want to be in the HR field. I have read and edited far too many works since high school; I am frankly surprised my eyes have not melted yet in protest, ;).

Again, thank you for your responses. Cheers!

CB out.

Thank you, Mister Nelson. And I know I'd love to see more books along the lines of Ultimate Battle.

Has anyone designed a map with the battle zones, as described in Ultimate Battle? Nowadays I use Roll20 to run the games for my players and we are fast approaching mass combat for our Kingmaker campaign, so I figured a visual aid will help them.

Cheers!

CB out.

EDIT: corrected a minor formatting issue.

I just noticed some odd, almost conflicting information in Ultimate Battle.

According to the section in "Fatigue," to remove fatigue or exhaustion, an army can make a Morale check (under specific conditions but it must at least rest for two Battle Phases). In the section right that, under "Healing After Battle," it states an army can rest for one hour (either on the field or being able to retreat without being defeated or worse), and automatically regain a certain amount of hit points AND reduce the exhausted condition to fatigue. A further eight hours with rest allows the army to recover more hit points and automatically eliminates the fatigue condition.

It seems strange to me that any army could automatically eliminate exhaustion and recover hit points by resting for one hour (even while on an active battlefield, with the assumption that the army unit is not engaged in any other activity nor is being attacked during that time), while in order to remove just fatigue or exhaustion via a Morale check requires at least 2 hours, up to a maximum of 12 hours (since each Battle Phase lasts 1d6 hours).

The only way this makes sense to me is if the resting on a battlefield described under "Healing After Battle" actually means that an army unit can rest on a battlefield where there is no active battle going on. I am assuming that this is the correct interpretation because I do not know how an army unit can rest for 1 hour during an active battle in which they are not currently engaged with an enemy army unit nor undertaking any other activity since each Battle Phase is 1d6 hours long.

OR am I misunderstanding/misread or missed something here? I am just slightly perplexed about this.

CB out.
Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
Canadian Bakka wrote:

I just noticed some odd, almost conflicting information in Ultimate Battle.

According to the section in "Fatigue," to remove fatigue or exhaustion, an army can make a Morale check (under specific conditions but it must at least rest for two Battle Phases). In the section right that, under "Healing After Battle," it states an army can rest for one hour (either on the field or being able to retreat without being defeated or worse), and automatically regain a certain amount of hit points AND reduce the exhausted condition to fatigue. A further eight hours with rest allows the army to recover more hit points and automatically eliminates the fatigue condition.

It seems strange to me that any army could automatically eliminate exhaustion and recover hit points by resting for one hour (even while on an active battlefield, with the assumption that the army unit is not engaged in any other activity nor is being attacked during that time), while in order to remove just fatigue or exhaustion via a Morale check requires at least 2 hours, up to a maximum of 12 hours (since each Battle Phase lasts 1d6 hours).

The only way this makes sense to me is if the resting on a battlefield described under "Healing After Battle" actually means that an army unit can rest on a battlefield where there is no active battle going on. I am assuming that this is the correct interpretation because I do not know how an army unit can rest for 1 hour during an active battle in which they are not currently engaged with an enemy army unit nor undertaking any other activity since each Battle Phase is 1d6 hours long.

OR am I misunderstanding/misread or missed something here? I am just slightly perplexed about this.

CB out.

The rules in the section "Healing After Battle" mean exactly that; healing AFTER the battle. If the battle is still going on, those rules don't apply.

Battle phases last a fluid amount of time, so as long as the battle is ongoing you operate in that time structure. Once the battle has concluded, armies and actions default back to normal time flow.

I had figured as much, since it was described under the heading of "Healing After Battle." It was just that the wording within that section almost implied that it could be done while there was an active battlefield. I appreciate the quick reply to a rhetorical question that nagged like a rules-lawyer's mother-in-law at the back of my mind.

CB out.

EDIT: fixed a spelling error.

I encountered an interesting corner-case with the mass combat rules that I had not foreseen. My players' army, a battalion of 100 2nd level fighters, engaged a platoon army of 20-25 trolls. The unit commander for the battalion had the Magical Healing boon while the trolls have their regeneration.

I recalled reading somewhere that, technically speaking, the trolls were immune to fatigue because their regeneration removes the non-lethal damage caused by fatigue from things like a forced march, cold dangers, heat dangers, and so forth (except for starvation). The Magical Healing boon itself removes the fatigue condition.

The problem that arose is when the battle itself took a sum of 60 hours straight in game-time because the unit commander of the battalion did not want to run the risk of the trolls leaving to attack the civilians in a nearby settlement that lacked walls. I could not find any rules on whether or not fatigue caused by lack of sleep could not be removed by magical healing that states it removes the fatigue condition and I could not determine if the troll's regeneration removes the fatigue caused by lack of sleep either.

I can see it being justified either way, but since I did not want to stop the battle just so that I could try to find a rule specifically addressing lack of sleep, I just ignored it for the time being. Although if the battle went longer than 3 days, then I would have to impose the penalties for starvation (I can see them drinking what they needed to between Battle Phases; eating was a different hurdle).

Still, I have to ask: was the Magical Healing Boon intended to remove all forms of fatigue that have not specifically stated otherwise (for example, starvation and thirst causes fatigue and it cannot be removed by any magical healing until the person has recovered through eating and drinking adequately)?

CB Out.
Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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Trolls aren't immune to the fatigued or exhausted conditions, though in the case of nonlethal damage that specifically causes fatigue, their regeneration comes into play to negate the damage and thus the fatigue.

However, this brings up one of those RAW-logic points of silliness which leads someone to say their character (or their troll) never needs to eat or drink again, because the only penalty for not eating or drinking is nonlethal damage, which they heal faster than it could possibly kill them.

Trolls (and most PCs) are humanoids, and humanoids as a creature type need to eat, drink, and sleep. The game stipulates a specific penalty for temporarily going without any of these things in the form of nonlethal damage; however, the game also contains the embedded assumption that at some point you will resume eating, drinking, or sleeping, or you will die of hunger, thirst, or exhaustion.

TL;DR - Yes, the trolls or the army with magical healing don't actually take nonlethal damage as a result of not sleeping; however, as humanoids they still need to sleep. How you choose to enforce that point is up to you when the logic of the situation feels like it should trump the specific (and, in this case, ineffectual) game mechanic of nonlethal damage as the lever to force the trolls to sleep.

The simple solution is just to say that a unit becoming "fatigued" in the abstract mass combat sense is not the same as an individual creature dealing with fatigue, exhaustion, sleep, or nonlethal damage, and therefore regeneration wouldn't prevent a unit from becoming fatigued.

As to whether Magical Healing should give you unlimited fatigue removal, that is what the Magical Healing command boon allows as written, and there's even some sense of thematic precedent in the idea of an army holed up defending a temple basically subsisting on divine blessings. There is the limitation that it affects only a single unit on your army's side, but if your whole army is just one unit then it lets you auto-rejuvenate.

So, clearly, the boon lets you remove all the fatigue you want; however, it's also within reason to apply a limit to how many times you can stave off fatigue before you just can't do it anymore. If you'd like an official errata, I'd probably say this:

Fatigue can be removed (or exhaustion reduced to fatigue) by Magical Healing no more than twice per day per unit, even if the Magical Healing comes from different sources. Additional magical healing can remove damage or other conditions (such as paralysis).

I've just bought this product, and I love what it does. However, I have some questions about the way army Morale works in Ultimate Battle.

In the Ultimate Campaign mass combat rules, an army's Morale score ranges from -4 to +4, starting at 0 for a newly-recruited army. If it ever drops below -4, the army disbands/deserts. The Morale score of an army also acts as a modifier on that army's Morale checks. The only way to increase an army's Morale score is to win battles, where they gain 1 (to a maximum of +4).

In Ultimate Battle, it states that during the Rout Phase of a battle, armies must make a Morale check and if they fail, lose 1d4 Morale. If this reduces the army's Morale to zero (or less), a Loyalty check is required; if this passes, the army's Morale increases to 1 and the army routs (if it fails, the army disbands completely). Table 2 lists a number of ways to increase an army's morale, some (like training with the general) which can just be done indefinitely.

So, it seems that in UB, an army's Morale score is always greater than zero. That implies that it's not applied as a modifier on Morale checks in UB, it's just a sort of "morale hit points"?

Also, UB doesn't mention any sort of maximum for an army's Morale score. Does that mean the value is unlimited, e.g. if the general spent 10 weeks training with an army that started with morale 1, their Morale rating immediately afterwards would be 11?

Alternatively, if the UB rules keep the maximum of 4 from UC, that makes armies in UB much less resilient than in UC. One failed Morale check in a rout phase reduces Morale by 1d4, so a maximally confident veteran army at 4 Morale can drop to zero and rout or disband 25% of the time it fails the Rout Phase Morale check.

To keep a similar range of values as the -4 to +4 from UC, a morale cap for UB would need to be 9.

How have other people using UB been handling this?
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