Pathfinder Adventure Path #71: Rasputin Must Die! (Reign of Winter 5 of 6) (PFRPG)

I am looking forward to this one SO MUCH! It's "Sturmgeschutz and Sorcery" for a new generation! (Man, but did I reveal my age with that comment).

Mikaze wrote:

(I actually just recently saw an old Christopher Lee/Peter Cushing/Telly Savalas(?!) movie set in this area, set in 1906. The monster was weird enough to be right at home in old D&D.)

I have seen that flick! Heh. Blast from the past.

Horror Express! That's a great movie!

I'm still in shock about how amazingly awesome this is.

Please for the love of madness include a robust section on 20th-century weapons!

But my one, serious question about this all, is that does this adventure also involve an element of time travel as well? Or is it presumed now that Golarion's 4713 is parallel to Earth 1918?

Time travel is a huge can of worms. One we'd be unlikely to want to open ever, much less in the context of an Adventure Path that already contains lots of wormy cans.

More details on how "modern" Golarion relates to Earth's timeline will appear in the adventure, in any event. Or maybe not; we might not even bother delving into that, since there aren't really plans to ever go back to Earth after this...

...but again... never say never...

As for grumblers, or the lack of them, as was stated up thread, many of them weighed in on other threads. The item card thread confirmed the 20th century elements if not the trip to Earth itself.

So why isn’t there more of an outcry? Well from this grumbler's PoV:

1. While I'm not a fan of the idea, and the chances of me ever running this AP diminshes with each new tidbit revealed, I'm sure it'll be a good read. Brandon and the rest of the Paizo AP team hasn't failed to deliver and there's usually something I can poach from an AP for my campaigns. If not, I'm sure it'll still be an interesting read.

2. The "connection to Earth" has been done in various forms for decades, whether it was a Baba Yaga connection, the D&D cartoon, Greyhawk gods with six-shooters, or articles in Dragon magazine, Alice in Wonderland, etc. there's a precedent. So long as it's a flash-in-the-pan and doesn't transform the Golarion setting, I can live with it.

3. APs won't be my tastes all of the time. I got Kingmaker. I got Skull & Shackles (without overt guns in your face every step of the way as an added bonus). While I don't want to see every AP or even alternating APs going off into gonzo-territory, I'll survive a detour every now and then. However, if the floodgates open and setting coherency & consistency & swords-n-sorcery roots go by the wayside, I'm gone.

4. The die is already cast. There are (for me at least) additional benefits for remaining an AP subscriber even if I know this AP won't do it for me. However, I'm fortunate in that I have the extra disposable income that I can make that call. In all honesty, if my gaming budget were tighter, this would probably trigger a temporary suspension of my AP subscription.

5. You’ve earned my trust. I’m willing to go along for the ride when you take some risks. Usually, if there’s an element to the game I’m not fond of, they’re not foundation-level components. They’re seasoning and I can ignore them with little to no effort on my part as a GM.

There is the other side of the coin that will remain in my mind as a customer/subscriber, however:

A. A few years back, APs themed after more narrow parameters than your standard-adventuring party were deemed “risky” by Paizo staff on these boards. Things like a crime-themed AP, a religious-themed AP, an arcane-academy themed AP, a war-themed AP, or a sword-and-planet themed AP were all “too out there” to appeal to a large enough group of customers. We’ll you’re taking some pretty darn big risks on something as fringe as “Go to Earth and in the 20th century to boot”. If you can successfully do a pirate-themed AP and you can follow it up with something this gonzo, I’m hoping you’ll take another look at non-traditional themed APs & Modules that better fit in the sword-n-sorcery model…

B. Pathfinder Modern/Sci-FI was deemed too far afield to be a product, would divide precious company resources, etc. I’m not asking for a separate modern or sci-fi RPG, but if you can go to 1918-friggin-Earth, it shouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility that the RPG line will someday see a sword-and-planet hardback or a sci-fi hardback, etc.

So while there’s some grumbling, it’s not full-on outrage & outcry. Best wishes that Reign of Winter is a very successful AP. But let’s not make the weird stuff commonplace, ok? (‘cause then it wouldn’t be weird, would it?)

You echo some of my own sentiments that I posted earlier here.

Neither Paizo nor myself entered this endeavor lightly, and I'm thrilled with the response so far, even from those whose cup of tea this may not be. It is a trust thing, and that's rather encouraging. =-)

A. A few years back, APs themed after more narrow parameters than your standard-adventuring party were deemed “risky” by Paizo staff on these boards. Things like a crime-themed AP, a religious-themed AP, an arcane-academy themed AP, a war-themed AP, or a sword-and-planet themed AP were all “too out there” to appeal to a large enough group of customers. We’ll you’re taking some pretty darn big risks on something as fringe as “Go to Earth and in the 20th century to boot”. If you can successfully do a pirate-themed AP and you can follow it up with something this gonzo, I’m hoping you’ll take another look at non-traditional themed APs & Modules that better fit in the sword-n-sorcery model…

B. Pathfinder Modern/Sci-FI was deemed too far afield to be a product, would divide precious company resources, etc. I’m not asking for a separate modern or sci-fi RPG, but if you can go to 1918-friggin-Earth, it shouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility that the RPG line will someday see a sword-and-planet hardback or a sci-fi hardback, etc.

A) That's true; but we're now entering our 6th year of publishing Pathfinder Adventure Paths. With each "risky" AP we do, and with their continued successes, the "risk" of doing an entire adventure path that isn't just a classic dungeon crawl in a faux medieval European setting diminishes. The response we've seen to parts of Golarion that drift away from the assumed "safe ground" of the Tolkeineske swords & sorcery themes that the game was born from have encouraged us that it's actually not that big a risk after all to, say, do an entire adventure path that's about pirates, or do one that goes to other planets. Shattered Star was a pretty traditional Adventure Path though, so it's certainly NOT like we went straight from pirates to Rasputin. And the AP after Reign of Winter is also pretty classic—the "stand against the invasion of the demons from the Abyss" storyline is, in fact, so "classic" that it was a plotline that Dungeon Magazine repeated over and over and over in its writing guidelines for authors to NEVER do, along with the "rescue the princess from the dragon" adventure. That sounds pretty traditional to me!

B) There's a HUGE difference between doing one adventure set in 1918 Earth and doing an entire rulebook supported by a monthly line of Adventure Paths, Campaign Setting Books, Players' Guides, and organized play programs.

But but but but I want a sidetrek where the PCs botch a teleport and land smack bang in the middle of Polish wars of independence! :)

<snip -- Lots of very true stuff>

Understood & agreed on all counts.

For A), Shattered Star is classic Golarion themes & goodness. I recognize the WorldWound AP is a more traditional sword-n-sorcery AP as well, however, it also incorporates the Mythic content. My point was to consider/re-visit AP ideas with perhaps a less critical eye to do things like:
Arcane Academy - PCs start as apprentices with the academy as the centerpiece setting of the AP ala Hogwarts.

Crime AP - PCs build their own Thieves' Guild/crime family from upstarts to kingpins.

If they work out, they work out. If not, they don't. I just was hoping that "risk" wouldn't be the primary criteria for elimination.

For B), I'm not suggesting a separate line of products. You've already got Numeria, Distant Worlds, & I believe Reign of Winter goes to a world other than Earth... And it's also why I specifically called out sword-and-planet rather than only straight-up sci-fi -- those elements would "plug-in" to Golarion elements you've already written. Fleshing that out with sci-fi (only) elements could provide a toolkit for non-Golarion games in the same fashion that Ultimate Combat provided alternate rules for things like Wounds/Vigor. (As a long-winded example.)

I know my players well enough...my gunslinger will be UPGRADING his guns and dragging as many back as he can! I cant wait either, I was the guy in high school who did the history report on Rasputin! I wonder how he is stated up, is he a monk like tradition or something more?

I know my players well enough...my gunslinger will be UPGRADING his guns and dragging as many back as he can! I cant wait either, I was the guy in high school who did the history report on Rasputin! I wonder how he is stated up, is he a monk like tradition or something more?

My guess is he'll be utilzing that 20th century mysticism Oracle mystery to some degree. Whether as a straight-up oracle or as a multi-class character, that's a toss-up.

I know my players well enough...my gunslinger will be UPGRADING his guns and dragging as many back as he can! I cant wait either, I was the guy in high school who did the history report on Rasputin! I wonder how he is stated up, is he a monk like tradition or something more?

Well, a "monk" in the Russian tradition is nothing like a "monk" in the D&D tradition, so he's probably a "monk" but not of the monk class.

A monk, being a religious figure, would probably be expected to be a Cleric or maybe an Oracle. Particularly given the Baba Yaga tie in, I'd actually expect a witch, but that might be too obvious.

We decided NOT to make Rasputin a monk, not only because he doesn't really fit what a Pathfinder monk does, but more importantly, Rasputin is known also as the Mad Monk, and I wasn't really interested in giving the "MAD monk" arguments any more ammo.

I so need a job by the time this AP comes out. This alone has sold me on it. This is to freaking cool not to run!

Hello BPorter, while I understand your concern I think Paizo has struck a good balance with classic adventure style APs and APs that explore non classic styles of fiction.

I think it is absolutely necessary that they continue to have the occasional AP push the envelope for the following reasons:

It keeps the writers sharp and gets them thinking in ways they would not normally do and this can carry in to the classic style AP.

It stops both the writers and APs from going stale.

Finding something new.... A new genre, a new mechanic, new places and ways to grow the game both mechanically and within Paizos fictional universe.

Distinguishing themselves from the competion, there is not much chance of any of Paizos competitors doing anything similar.

Attracting new talent.... Paizo has a stable of brilliant writers and allowing them to show their chops, attracts interest from other creative people, who would love to be able to challenged and excited by doing new stuff.

A lot of the genres you have suggested crime, war, all magic, or all one race (mine suggestion) are also radical notions.

The Paizo guys watch the threads for popular themes and good ideas, I am sure if they can find away to make it work they will put it on James's big list of up comming APs.
Last time James mentioned it there was about 5 years worth of APs the list was flexable and stuff could be bumped.

And the AP after Reign of Winter is also pretty classic—the "stand against the invasion of the demons from the Abyss" storyline is, in fact, so "classic" that it was a plotline that Dungeon Magazine repeated over and over and over in its writing guidelines for authors to NEVER do, along with the "rescue the princess from the dragon" adventure. That sounds pretty traditional to me!

So when do we get the "rescue the princess from the dragon" AP?

;)

In my over 20 years of gaming, I have never gotten a chance to rescue a princess from a dragon or a dragon from a princess.

I hope Rasputin is an oracle or maybe a sorcerer just really hard to kill. But I don't want him to be a martial class, rouge, bard, or a witch.

Rasputin = Dragon
Baba Yaga = Princess

My god, it's been right under our noses the whole time.

In my over 20 years of gaming, I have never gotten a chance to rescue a princess from a dragon or a dragon from a princess.

I hope Rasputin is an oracle or maybe a sorcerer just really hard to kill. But I don't want him to be a martial class, rouge, bard, or a witch.

I wonder if Rasputin has a slam attack.

Rasputin = Dragon

Baba Yaga = Princess

My god, it's been right under our noses the whole time.

Wait, you don't think Rasputin is a Dragon Discple do you? Because if so...

Oh my lanta.

I'm glad all this is finally out in public... it was getting nerve-wracking staying silent!

But yeah... in a lot of ways, it's THIS adventure that really made a lot of us decide to build the Reign of Winter adventure path the way we built it. It's certainly the adventure in the series that I'm most excited to see!

As for "jumping the shark," we'll see. I think we've got a pretty excellent record by now of taking risks with plotlines and elements that might be considered "shark jumping" (such as Distant Worlds, the robots in Inner Sea Bestiary/Dungeons of Golarion, an all-pirate adventure path, an adventure where you all play goblins, a book all about cryptids, a book all about monsters that we as gamers have spent the last few decades mocking, etc.). I'm relatively sure that "Rasputin Must Die!" will end up being SUPER AWESOME.

Those who worry that it's going a place that they might not want... this element is really nothing new for Baba Yaga themed adventures from previous editions of the game—she's ALWAYS had elements of Earth involved with her. Furthermore... the fact that she's (as far as I know) the only non-deity character from Earth mythology that we've significantly incorporated into Golarion means that we more or less HAD to have Earth ties.

That all said... the method by which the PCs reach Earth is via Baba Yaga's hut. That means that this is going to be pretty self-contained. Don't expect to see relatively contemporary Earth stuff like tanks and Russians showing up again in Golarion stuff (unless this adventure ends up being so popular that you, the paying customers, demand such) anytime soon.

In any case... we've been doing Adventure Paths for 70 volumes at this point. If we end up getting that far without jumping the shark... that's still a pretty good run! :-P

Actually am looking forward to reading it even though my current group would never let me run it. As a GM you have to play to the audience a bit and transporting magic into the "real world" (insert eye rolling smiley here) is too much for them.

My "jumping the shark" comment stems from the fact that it feels like a stunt - I am sure I will be proven wrong again. Always happy to admit it when that turns out to be true (Shattered Star AP is far better than I first expected and it is going to be great to run it).

As I have said before, and will reiterate here, going further outside of Varisia is a good thing. I just didn't expect that you would go all the way to a magically infused alternate history Siberia.

After all, you have an amazing campaign world that I would love to see more fleshed out, and you have to take us to Russia (in Winter). LOL

=Dan

@ 8th Dwarf:

I'm cool with the risky/envelope-pushing/ultra-creative APs. I'm a big fan of most of the AP subsystems and some of the "riskier" APs to date (Legacy of Fire, Kingmaker, Skull & Shackles). But jumping to 20th-century Earth isn't my PF cup of tea, nor is it for my players.

You'll note that I didn't suggest that they not do it, didn't plan on canceling my subscription, etc. But along with feedback from the "pro" camp on this AP, I'm guessing that Paizo is looking to hear from the "con" camp as well with something more constructive than "I hate this".

Gonzo-weird-fringe stuff is cool once in a while so long as it doesn't break the game/setting. And Baba Yaga has always bordered on the weird side anyway -- see the Hut. But even if all of the envelope-pushing material was stuff that I did want, I wouldn't want it all the time.

My personal guess is Rasputin is an oracle using the mystery contained in this volume.

Have you asked your players? One of my friends is staunchly traditionalist when it comes to their adventures, but they're enthusiastic about this one.

James Jacobs wrote:

And the AP after Reign of Winter is also pretty classic—the "stand against the invasion of the demons from the Abyss" storyline is, in fact, so "classic" that it was a plotline that Dungeon Magazine repeated over and over and over in its writing guidelines for authors to NEVER do, along with the "rescue the princess from the dragon" adventure. That sounds pretty traditional to me!

So when do we get the "rescue the princess from the dragon" AP?

;)

The princess is the dragon.

And Baba Yaga has always bordered on the weird side anyway -- see the Hut.

The Hut is directly out of Russian myth. Granted, it is a bit strange, but it's not like RPGs made it that way. And if you think about it, it doesn't make any less sense than a lot of traditional western-european myths.

This in particular reminds me of the 2e era Dungeon magazine.....they'd run all sortsa off the wall/not necessarily mainstream stuff; this kinda thing is total ambrosia to me. That, and going to Triaxus or whatever, much less the House of the Chicken Legs,......I'm digging this AP more and more every day.

It's like the difference between the umpteenth iteration of LOTR vs. a China Mieville Bas-Lag book.

Oh,....and here's hopin' it's got that tricycle tank doohickey.
Man, that looks like a Steampunk AT-AT.

Feros wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

And the AP after Reign of Winter is also pretty classic—the "stand against the invasion of the demons from the Abyss" storyline is, in fact, so "classic" that it was a plotline that Dungeon Magazine repeated over and over and over in its writing guidelines for authors to NEVER do, along with the "rescue the princess from the dragon" adventure. That sounds pretty traditional to me!

So when do we get the "rescue the princess from the dragon" AP?

;)

The princess is the dragon.

Then we must save the princess... FROM HERSELF.

BPorter wrote:

And Baba Yaga has always bordered on the weird side anyway -- see the Hut.

The Hut is directly out of Russian myth. Granted, it is a bit strange, but it's not like RPGs made it that way. And if you think about it, it doesn't make any less sense than a lot of traditional western-european myths.

Lol. It's a hut/cabin. On giant chicken legs. With an extra-dimensional space inside. And it's mobile.

I don't care where it's from. It's weird. :)

I am excited to see this AP through, and I enjoy it when a company can take some risks. Once I heard Rob was heading up this project I had all the faith in the world that this AP would be amazing!!

Hey, she also flies around in a mortar with a pestle.

Baba Yaga is weird. The hut is just part of it.

Who's the spooky looking guy on the mockup cover? I don't recognize the illustration.

Did anyone answer this question?

It was already official that I would get this AP, but this product description just makes it even more so. My poor, poor wallet! :)

And does anyone have any ideas about the new oracle mystery? It's supposed to be something like twentieth-century mysticism, possibly with a bit of the occult.

Is it too late historically-speaking for the new mystery to be Spiritualism in some guise? There's also been some mention of Aleister Crowley (Golden Dawn, etc.). Or could it be related to something like Theosophy?

*cue headscratching, as I try to remember what was in vogue around 1918*

Generic Villain wrote:

Who's the spooky looking guy on the mockup cover? I don't recognize the illustration.

Did anyone answer this question?

POssibly placeholder art for Rasputin himself as he appears on the final version.

And does anyone have any ideas about the new oracle mystery? It's supposed to be something like twentieth-century mysticism, possibly with a bit of the occult.

Is it too late historically-speaking for the new mystery to be Spiritualism in some guise? There's also been some mention of Aleister Crowley (Golden Dawn, etc.). Or could it be related to something like Theosophy?

You do know what I research and collect when I'm not writing Pathfinder adventures, don't you? =-)

Bellona wrote:

And does anyone have any ideas about the new oracle mystery? It's supposed to be something like twentieth-century mysticism, possibly with a bit of the occult.

Is it too late historically-speaking for the new mystery to be Spiritualism in some guise? There's also been some mention of Aleister Crowley (Golden Dawn, etc.). Or could it be related to something like Theosophy?

You do know what I research and collect when I'm not writing Pathfinder adventures, don't you? =-)

Heh. I believe we may have an "I got a brand-new pair of rollerskates, you got a brand new key" situation. I've got a 1920s talking board with both a swastika and a star of David on it but no planchette.

Adam Daigle wrote:

We SO wanted to use Tunguska, but the timing was problematic.

Meteor Swarm gone awry?

Or an Earthly version of Golarion's Earthfall event (or even Second Darkness event).

I'm suprised I haven't seen any references to the Dragon Magazine article where they detail the Dancing Hut (the inner space of the Hut is built on the inner surfaces of a tesseract there...did they keep it the same?)

==Aelryinth

Any chance we can have this adventure kick off the AP, and then move onto even more fun and weirdness afterwards? :)

Looking forward to this immensely.

Cheapy wrote:

Adam Daigle wrote:

We SO wanted to use Tunguska, but the timing was problematic.

Meteor Swarm gone awry?

Or an Earthly version of Golarion's Earthfall event (or even Second Darkness event).

Then our aboleths either can't shoot worth a damn or have some serious perfomance anxiety.

The princess is the dragon.

I want to play this.

Does Baba Yaga age a year every time she directly answers a question put to her?

Jessica Price wrote:

The princess is the dragon.

I want to play this.

That will be 'Blood of Dragons'.

Already on my list.

Wait Wait Wait, We are getting a trip to earth, during WW1, fighting Rasputin, getting more info on Daemons, and a new Oracle mystery? I just aosdkjaoienoaknoeinaoinlkakfjakdjfadsjikad! Take my money, take it now!

Any chance we can have this adventure kick off the AP, and then move onto even more fun and weirdness afterwards?

Hey, now! There should be zero chance on skipping the other adventures! I just got a chance to write a lead-off adventure for the first time and you want to jump straight past it? Darn you, Hodge! >_<

You play the whole thing or the Winter Witches will take you. That said, you can still move on to more fun and weirdness afterwards, if you wish.

::cough cough::

Ditto.

Wow, I wish the last volume's info about going to Triaxus was getting this much interest.

Does Baba Yaga age a year every time she directly answers a question put to her?

No, but those who ask her too many questions or overly personal questions stop aging at all.

Does Baba Yaga age a year every time she directly answers a question put to her?

Yes, but she's immortal.