The Genius Guide to More Fighter Talents (PFRPG) PDF

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The idea of fighter talents (and why they are a good idea) is first presented in The Genius Guide to the Talented Fighter, along with a large number of talents (many adopted from the abilities of fighter archetypes). The new talents presented here can be used with that book, or they can be added as new options for the traditional fighter class.

To use these talents with the core fighter class, simply allow a fighter to replace any of the following class features with a talent—bonus feats, bravery, armor training, weapon training, armor master, or weapon mastery. Advance talents require the fighter be at least 10th level, and grand talents are available only to 20th level fighters, and must be taken in place of weapon mastery.

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***** (based on 4 ratings)

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should be on every game-table!

*****

WHAT I EXPECTED:
Honestly, more of the same.

WHAT I GOT:
Honestly, more of the same. Plus some. Plus A LOT, actually. The “Combat Training” talent allows a T/Ftr to take a “fighter bonus feat” as a talent – so this can be reversed, as well. Talents can be taken as fighter-only bonus feats by core fighters. There are options for taking rogue talents and cleric/oracle spells as spell-like abilities. There are talents for converting critical damage into other effects and for being part of a siege-engine crew. And there is … Situational Awareness.

WHAT I THINK:
Situational Awareness is worth the price of admission all on its own. I'm ready to build a crossbow sniper that uses this. I'm ready to start building Talented Fighters. This one pulled some surprises on me – and that makes me very happy.

WHAT YOU SHOULD THINK:
You should think this is the icing on the Talented Fighter cake – you could eat the cake plain, but having the icing makes it SOOO much better! You don't have to have cake, or cake with icing on it – but it is very, very enjoyable. If you want to take the core fighting-man, proficient with all simple and martial weapons, all armors, and all shields and build a gladiator, a sniper, a VIP protection detail specialist, a horseman … and, even better, someone who is really good at several different approaches … then you need this at your table.


A gourmet experience.

*****

The Genius Guide to the Talented Fighter took a solid concept and developed it into something excellent. This product elaborates from there. If the Talented Fighter is a tasty, perfectly textured cheeseburger, this guide is like the grilled mushrooms, bacon, and extra cheese choices that will make sure you go home fat and satisfied. My only complaint is that I now finding myself wanting the cheese fries, both literally and metaphorically.


An Endzeitgeist.com review

*****

This pdf is 6 pages long, 2/3 of a page front cover, 1 page editorial/SRD, leaving us with 4 1/3 of a page content, so let's check this out!

The SGG-take on the Fighter with talents is justifiable popular and this pdf essentially offers NEW fighter talents (versus those based on archetype-abilities) for the talented fighter - talents, which, btw. you could relatively easily convert into feats.

Unless I've miscounted, we get 23 new basic talents for the fighter, which include several talents that come only into play on a critical hit: Much like 3.5 Sword & Sorcery Advanced Player's Guide's extensive critical hit tables (oh, how I love them!), these talents allow you to reduce the critical hit multiplier by 1 (e.g. from double damage to only regular damage or from triple damage down to double) and apply a secondary effect to your attack, with e.g. Fat Lip providing a hefty fort-save or a chance to lose any verbal component featuring spell following the hit, dealing damage to both foe and armor, temporarily exhaust foes, forgo a crit to net +4 to crit-confirmations for a minute (high crit-builds will like this) or make the target provoke an AoO from all creatures threatening it.

Gaining access to a cleric/oracle orison (and as a follow-up, 1st level spell), +2 to atk for AoOs and number of AoOs per round, using dirty tricks 1/round in place of a regular melee attack, getting a better aid another, gain nice bonuses to CMB when using Stand Still or a physis that keep the fighter in shape at advanced age categories as well as increased healing and stowing items more efficiently.

13 advanced talents allow you to gain evasion, punch foes into the throat or disable limbs(on crits - no speaking for 1 round/penalties depending on the limb), answer grapple, disarm and sunder attempts with AoOs, demoralize foes when using a firearm for the first time in combat, may use a melee weapon attack in lieu of an acrobatics-check to move through threatened squares or get improved accuracy when handling siege engines.

Finally, we get 3 new grand talents: An advanced rogue talent, regular damage in addition to combat maneuver-effects and the chance to sever limbs on crits make for three interesting potential capstones.

Conclusion:

Editing and formatting are top-notch; I didn't notice any glitches. Layout adheres to SGG's 3-column full-color standard and the artworks featured are nice. The pdf comes fully bookmarked with nested bookmarks by page - nice to have, even at this relatively short length.

There's a reason why I dubbed Owen K.C. Stephens "Grandmaster Crunch" - and this pdf is a great example why. The man delivers. Where my one gripe with the talented fighter essentially was that I would have loved more unique talents, this delivers. While organization of the respective talents is still a matter of tastes, these talents are glorious additions to the talented fighter, at a price that is more than fair. Combine that with the fact that none of the talents feel unbalanced or too weak and we have a straight recommendation at 5 stars plus seal of approval.

Endzeitgeist out.


Solid Talents, Solid Feats

*****

Wow. Like, seriously. Super Genius Games, you JUST came out with the Talented Fighter like two weeks prior to this product's release date. Give my wallet some time to rest, would you?

Crunch
If you read my review of the Genius Guide to the Talented Fighter, and I certainly hope you did, then you'll remember that I had two major points about Super Genius Games. #1 SGG knows how to do crunch right. #2 SGG's Lead Designer knows how to balance a talents system. Neither of those two facts have changed from the previous review; the talents are all solid, and honestly I'm excited about this one because there are NEW talents in this one. As in, talents that weren't taken from a previous archetype. It is a breath of fresh air, that's for sure!

There are some new, interesting mechanics but the document feels surprisingly short in the crunch, and I know why. In my family, we call this the M&M Paradox. According to the M&M Paradox, the better quality something is, the faster you will consume it, so the less of that something you perceive there being available to you. There are TONS of talents in this document, but they're a quick read so it doesn't feel like there are that many. I guess that means that Owen is just going to have to sate my hunger for his talents by making more of them. 5 / 5 Stars.

Flavor
SGG products aren't really known for their flavor, which refers to their overall style and theme. Surprisingly enough, this product has a theme; dirty fighting. Lots of stuff that interacts with combat maneuvers, lots of stuff that interacts with plain old fighting dirty; a good example is a talent that allows you to attempt to infect your enemies with filth fever. The art even supports this direction with its gritty, imposing characters. I was very surprised by this, and I'm hoping that future products will keep even this subtle bit of theme. 5 /5 Stars.

Texture
Sigh. This is a lot of talents. A LOT of talents. It can be a bit of a pain to sort though, as there is no improvement to the categorizing of talents in this product over the previous one. I'm disappointed by this because I absolutely loved Star Wars Saga's talent trees, which were a quick, easy, and awesome way of knowing exactly what you wanted. This is by no means insurmountable, but little tweaks like that can make all the difference to a reader, especially organization OCC readers such as myself. Aside from that, this document is much cleaner than its predecessor (thank you for removing all of that needless archetype text!) and doesn't have any true flaws, but I'm still going to dock it a point because I don't see its presentation as being perfect. 4 / 5 Stars.

Final Score & Thoughts
Crunch: 5 / 5 Stars
Flavor: 5 / 5 Stars
Texture: 4 / 5 Stars
Final Score: 4.8 / 5 Stars

Talents should be a defining part of whatever class uses them. You cannot think of a rogue without thinking of their unique pool of abilities, rogue talents. The part of the problem with the Genius Guide to the Talented Fighter is that it was safe. It claimed that the old fighter class wasn't the perfect representation of what it meant to be a fighter, but it didn't offer us anything new to make us say, "Oh hey, this is what it means to be a fighter! The Genius Guide to More Fighter Talents starts moving away from this. There are many new talents, most of them you've never seen before. Those talents that do look familiar (such as the Quick Combat Maneuver talents) all have some mechanic that trips you up and makes you think to yourself, "Oh, since they're Fighter-only, the talents aren't equivalent to feats. They're a little bit better than them." That's what this product was missing, and I honestly hope that it is a lesson kept in mind going forward.

Before I peace out, I want to make a shout-out to exactly what made me decide to round up for this product. First, there is a talent that takes the Aid Another action and makes it awesome. Its somewhat easy to game, but I like the concept; I've always felt that aid another was never expanded upon as a viable special action like combat maneuvers were. Second, one little rule completely sells this product for me; "Any fighter can select this talents as a fighter-only feat." It then goes to list the levels you need for each talent if you choose to take it as a feat. That rule alone makes this product (and the previous one) worth it to every player, because even if you don't want to use the talented fighter, you can use its talents as feats. Anyone who has fighters in their world (hint: EVERYONE) should consider picking up this product.

— Alexander "Alex" Augunas


Webstore Gninja Minion

Now available!


Owen a question:

A GM who doesn’t wish to add talents to the fighter class may instead turn all these talents into fighter-only combat feats, in the same vein as Weapon Specialization.
In this case, all talents require fighter 4 as a prerequisite, all
advanced talents require fighter 14, and the grand talents require fighter 20.

Does this apply equally to the original Talented Fighter as well?

Paizo Employee Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

Sethvir wrote:

Owen a question:

A GM who doesn’t wish to add talents to the fighter class may instead turn all these talents into fighter-only combat feats, in the same vein as Weapon Specialization.
In this case, all talents require fighter 4 as a prerequisite, all
advanced talents require fighter 14, and the grand talents require fighter 20.

Does this apply equally to the original Talented Fighter as well?

Yes... but.

In some cases the original talents had minimum fighter levels listed. If that level is higher than the level listed to use it as a fighter-only feat, use the higher of the two fighter levels.

For example, armored defense is a talent from The Genius Guide to the Talented Fighter, which requires a fighter be 5th level before selecting it. If a GM wanted to use that as a fighter-only feat,the feat should have fighter 5 as a requirement, rather than the normal fighter 4 for most basic fighter talents.

Paizo Employee Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

Many thanks to Golden-Esque for the review!


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Sethvir wrote:

Owen a question:

A GM who doesn’t wish to add talents to the fighter class may instead turn all these talents into fighter-only combat feats, in the same vein as Weapon Specialization.
In this case, all talents require fighter 4 as a prerequisite, all
advanced talents require fighter 14, and the grand talents require fighter 20.

Does this apply equally to the original Talented Fighter as well?

Yes... but.

In some cases the original talents had minimum fighter levels listed. If that level is higher than the level listed to use it as a fighter-only feat, use the higher of the two fighter levels.

For example, armored defense is a talent from The Genius Guide to the Talented Fighter, which requires a fighter be 5th level before selecting it. If a GM wanted to use that as a fighter-only feat,the feat should have fighter 5 as a requirement, rather than the normal fighter 4 for most basic fighter talents.

Thanks Owen. The general rule, then if anything says otherwise use that. Basically just wanted to know if we could apply the same thought process to the original Talented Fighter that you outlined in this one.


mmm does this product or it predecessor have a way to increase the umber of skill points fighter have, or give a decent mount to fighters?


There is a talent that called War College that grants an additional 5 skill points each time it is taken. It doesn't allow more than the usual maximum number of skill points on a skill nor does it increase the number the fighter receives at each level.


so there is no way to replicate the lorewarden and the tactician losing heavy armor proficiency but gaining 4+int skill per level?

Paizo Employee Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

I talked about this a little in The Genius Guide to the Talented Fighter. The talent system is designed to allow fighters to fulfill their normal role in more different ways, and I focused on concepts (and archetypes, in the first book) that are still at their base normal fighters.

The tactician gives up heavy armor proficiency, tower shield proficiency, and the first level bonus feat n return for +2 skill points/level. The lore warden gives up medium armor, and heavy armor, and shields for +2 skill points/level.

In both cases that means the class performs at a core level differently from a normal fighter, and gives up a lot more than just heavy armor to do it. That's the sort of thing that *should* be an archetype, just as there are some rogue archetypes even though rogues mostly get new talents when other classes get new archetypes.

War College lets you pick +5 skill points as a talent, and you can take it more than once. so if you want to have a higher-skill fighter you can... but you'd have to take it multiple times over your career to have the same total effect as +2 skill points/level. As a design choice, I'm happy with thaty.

Contributor

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

I talked about this a little in The Genius Guide to the Talented Fighter. The talent system is designed to allow fighters to fulfill their normal role in more different ways, and I focused on concepts (and archetypes, in the first book) that are still at their base normal fighters.

The tactician gives up heavy armor proficiency, tower shield proficiency, and the first level bonus feat n return for +2 skill points/level. The lore warden gives up medium armor, and heavy armor, and shields for +2 skill points/level.

In both cases that means the class performs at a core level differently from a normal fighter, and gives up a lot more than just heavy armor to do it. That's the sort of thing that *should* be an archetype, just as there are some rogue archetypes even though rogues mostly get new talents when other classes get new archetypes.

War College lets you pick +5 skill points as a talent, and you can take it more than once. so if you want to have a higher-skill fighter you can... but you'd have to take it multiple times over your career to have the same total effect as +2 skill points/level. As a design choice, I'm happy with thaty.

Its not even that taxing. Take the talent once every 5 levels and you end up with the same number of skill points. Its even better when you remember that you can always blow a feat on those extra skill points instead of a fighter talent.

Paizo Employee Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

Alexander Augunas wrote:
Its not even that taxing. Take the talent once every 5 levels and you end up with the same number of skill points.

You'd have to take it twice over 5 levels to have the same skill points as getting 4/level, but in general yes.

Grand Lodge

Got a question about a feat that was posted on Facebook. Asked there, but got no response.

Head Smash. Prereq fighter 1. You can make one unarmed attacks with your head as a move or standard action, though you do not threaten with such attacks. You are considered armed with your head, however, and do not provoke AoOs from making such attacks. You may make such attacks even if grappled or pinned (though not if held or paralyzed). If wearing a helmet, treat this as a gauntlet attack. You take half the damage you deal with a head smash, though you may apply any DR you have to reduce the damage you take.

Why do you have the option of a move OR standard? You should only get one or the other. Otherwise you could head smash twice. Once as a move, and then again as a standard.

And if you add it in with today's feat, Blur of Steel, one head smash as a move action, and then a full round of attacks as a standard.

You'd be crazy not to take both of those as an unarmed fighter archetype.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

It makes a difference when you only have move actions available.

Grand Lodge

TriOmegaZero wrote:
It makes a difference when you only have move actions available.

Yeah, I know, but you can't attack as a move action. It should be specified more otherwise it'll be exploited, royally.

Contributor

kevin_video wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
It makes a difference when you only have move actions available.
Yeah, I know, but you can't attack as a move action. It should be specified more otherwise it'll be exploited, royally.

I think I'd be pretty weary of head smashing my foes considering that you suffer half of the damage you deal with a head smash.

[ATTENTION — Incoming Over Exaggeration!]

AM Barbarian: Double Power Attack Head Smash! Double Hit! 2d4 + double AM Barbarian's Strength + double his Power Attack bonus! 16 damage!

GM: Okay AM Barbarian. You had 5 hit points remaining from all the head smashing you've been doing, so you take 8 damage and fall unconscious.

AM Barbarian: No! AM Barbarian has DR 1 / —! Reduces recoil damage.

GM: Shouldn't you have DR 2 by now?

AM Barbarian: Next level. AM Barbarian traded one level of Barbarian for Fighter level to pick up Head Smash.

GM: Oh. Well, you still suffer 6 damage and fall unconscious and begin dying. Hope it was worth it.

AM Barbarian: Definitely.

Grand Lodge

Alexander Augunas wrote:
kevin_video wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
It makes a difference when you only have move actions available.
Yeah, I know, but you can't attack as a move action. It should be specified more otherwise it'll be exploited, royally.

I think I'd be pretty weary of head smashing my foes considering that you suffer half of the damage you deal with a head smash.

[ATTENTION — Incoming Over Exaggeration!]

AM Barbarian: Double Power Attack Head Smash! Double Hit! 2d4 + double AM Barbarian's Strength + double his Power Attack bonus! 16 damage!

GM: Okay AM Barbarian. You had 5 hit points remaining from all the head smashing you've been doing, so you take 8 damage and fall unconscious.

AM Barbarian: No! AM Barbarian has DR 1 / —! Reduces recoil damage.

GM: Shouldn't you have DR 2 by now?

AM Barbarian: Next level. AM Barbarian traded one level of Barbarian for Fighter level to pick up Head Smash.

GM: Oh. Well, you still suffer 6 damage and fall unconscious and begin dying. Hope it was worth it.

AM Barbarian: Definitely.

True, but there are other ways of getting that increased. Spells, enhancements, armor. If the barbarian was wearing invulnerable armor, that DR 5/magic.

Contributor

kevin_video wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
kevin_video wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
It makes a difference when you only have move actions available.
Yeah, I know, but you can't attack as a move action. It should be specified more otherwise it'll be exploited, royally.

I think I'd be pretty weary of head smashing my foes considering that you suffer half of the damage you deal with a head smash.

[ATTENTION — Incoming Over Exaggeration!]

AM Barbarian: Double Power Attack Head Smash! Double Hit! 2d4 + double AM Barbarian's Strength + double his Power Attack bonus! 16 damage!

GM: Okay AM Barbarian. You had 5 hit points remaining from all the head smashing you've been doing, so you take 8 damage and fall unconscious.

AM Barbarian: No! AM Barbarian has DR 1 / —! Reduces recoil damage.

GM: Shouldn't you have DR 2 by now?

AM Barbarian: Next level. AM Barbarian traded one level of Barbarian for Fighter level to pick up Head Smash.

GM: Oh. Well, you still suffer 6 damage and fall unconscious and begin dying. Hope it was worth it.

AM Barbarian: Definitely.

True, but there are other ways of getting that increased. Spells, enhancements, armor. If the barbarian was wearing invulnerable armor, that DR 5/magic.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm almost positive that DR doesn't stack from multiple sources. Without any special 20th level abilities, I don't think you can get much more than DR 5, and considering that its available as a 1st level talent, where Head Smash shines is early game before you have iterative attacks. You're not going to have much (if any) DR at that point in the game.

Grand Lodge

Alexander Augunas wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm almost positive that DR doesn't stack from multiple sources. Without any special 20th level abilities, I don't think you can get much more than DR 5, and considering that its available as a 1st level talent, where Head Smash shines is early game before you have iterative attacks. You're not going to have much (if any) DR at that point in the game.

No, DR doesn't stack. It overlaps, unless it specifies otherwise. Like adamantine armor.

And yes, the feat does shine. Hence why I'm looking to see why it specifically says "move or standard" and why it's not one over the other.

Paizo Employee Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

First, microfeats from the website are (as specified) still in development, so this may change.

Second, the intent is you can make one head smash per round, and you can do it as a move or standard. It's a limited way to get in an extra attack, with drawbacks (you take half damage). By the time the barbarian can get DR 5, 10 points of damage to a foe isn't much, and any more than that and he'll take some in return.

Head Smash is in playtesting now, so we'll see what it looks like after more player feedback. (I'm already being told it should be HJead Butt...)

(And to be clear Head Smash and Blur of Steel are NOT in this product or its companion product. they are "things in development" I post free at the Super Genius Facebook page. And Blur of Steel is limited to a few times a day)

Grand Lodge

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

First, microfeats from the website are (as specified) still in development, so this may change.

Second, the intent is you can make one head smash per round, and you can do it as a move or standard. It's a limited way to get in an extra attack, with drawbacks (you take half damage). By the time the barbarian can get DR 5, 10 points of damage to a foe isn't much, and any more than that and he'll take some in return.

Head Smash is in playtesting now, so we'll see what it looks like after more player feedback. (I'm already being told it should be HJead Butt...)

(And to be clear Head Smash and Blur of Steel are NOT in this product or its companion product. they are "things in development" I post free at the Super Genius Facebook page. And Blur of Steel is limited to a few times a day)

I've made the change in my notes. I'll keep an eye out on any other changes made to it on FB.


I keep a running document of all the feats that gets posted on Facebook for myself. I think it's up to 27 pages of stuff, including associated Feat tables and what not.

Oh and I started a new document that compiles all the Fighter Talents from both products, plus the items that Owen references in the Talented Fighter in one place. So 9 Witch Hunter Feats, 9 Armiger Feats, The Tough, The Enforcer, Bravery Alternatives, & War Master. Only product I don't have is GG to the Armiger. In 10 pt Verdana it's something like 22 pages. As someone someplace said, wall of text! :) I tweaked the feats to make them read a little more like talents and modified the pre-reqs a bit to make them fall in line with the existing format of the talents.

Grand Lodge

Sethvir wrote:

I keep a running document of all the feats that gets posted on Facebook for myself. I think it's up to 27 pages of stuff, including associated Feat tables and what not.

Oh and I started a new document that compiles all the Fighter Talents from both products, plus the items that Owen references in the Talented Fighter in one place. So 9 Witch Hunter Feats, 9 Armiger Feats, The Tough, The Enforcer, Bravery Alternatives, & War Master. Only product I don't have is GG to the Armiger. In 10 pt Verdana it's something like 22 pages. As someone someplace said, wall of text! :) I tweaked the feats to make them read a little more like talents and modified the pre-reqs a bit to make them fall in line with the existing format of the talents.

I've got a running document for all of the FB feats as well. I'm also allowing my players to use them. Hence why I'm sometimes hesitant about how some read.

Paizo Employee Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

Suspicion of the FaceBook feats is perfectly warranted. They're first thoughts, not finished, tested, and proven products.


Reviewed first on Endzeitgeist.com, then submitted to GMS magazine as well as Nerdtrek and posted here, on OBS and d20pfsrd.com. Cheers!

Paizo Employee Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

As always, many thanks for the review!

Paizo Employee Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

Many thanks too RJGrady for the review!


Review added. Everyone should have this in their library! Even if you don't use the Talented classes, *this* product has PLENTY of room for use. Read the review.

Paizo Employee Contributor

As always, thanks for the review!

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