The Genius Guide to the Talented Fighter (PFRPG) PDF

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The Genius Guide to the Talented Fighter rewrites the classic fighter class to use talents instead of static class abilities alternating with bonus feats. Rather than require all fighters be brave and balance their efforts between armor and weapon bonuses, each fighter can custom-fit the classes abilities to match a player’s specific concept. This increased flexibility allows the fighter to be the default combat-oriented character without limiting it to just one or two styles of fighting. And like a rogue, a fighter character can pick and choose from a range of similarly-powered abilities appropriate for the fighter’s role without making the class overpowered. The talented fighter still fills the same role in the party, but can customize his combat style and abilities to fill a much broader range of concepts.

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Its the Build-A-Fighter Workshop

5/5

Here's another great product from those who "Err on the Side of Awesome".
Its a great way to build your own fighter it really allows a huge amount of customization that you normally don't get to see.

One of my favorite talents is Vital Combat really makes Vital Strike worth taking.
And being able to take

A great buy in my book.


Fight the good fight.

5/5

The Talented Fighter by Super Genius Games is a 14 page PDF, with a half page of cover, and One Page of OGL/Credits, leaving about 12.5 pages of content. It is a remake of the core fighter class and its archetypes, with a twist. Instead of getting them at certain levels, you can pick them out as talents, giving you a HUGE range of customizability on whatever you want to make.

Let me preface this review by saying that I’m not a huuuge fan of the original fighter. It’s a class that touts itself as the “Master of All Arms and Fighting Styles” while any class with Martial proficiency can do that, and besides certain class features that either A: Don’t make sense for concepts (Armor training for a lightly armored fighter), B: Are nice, but pale in comparison to other features (Weapon Training is awesome… but more so then something like Rage?) or C: Completely and utterly laughable (EVERY FIGHTER IS BRAVE EVER).

Aside from concept reasons, the other feature it gets (Bonus feats) are something all classes have, and a bunch of other classes have the ability to get its exclusive bonus feats. Archetypes alleviate this issue somewhat by removing things, but besides the Gladiator Archetype, you can’t really combine any, making it hard to get a concept you want, leaving you either specialized in something you don’t want, or as a Buffet of a class, you’ve got just a little of everything on the grill… but it’s all really really mediocre, and maybe even a little over/under cooked.

The Talented Fighter himself starts out as a d10 HD class, touting a full BAB, with a good Fort Save, and starting gold of 5d6x10 GP (sound familiar?). It gets 2 + INT mod skills per level, and is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and all armors and shields, including Tower shields. At every level it gets a Fighter Talent, which I’ll get into below. At 10th and above, it’s able to take an Advanced Talent, and at 20th it’s able to choose a Grand Talent as it’s capstone.

Super Genius Games has taken the work to turn almost every fighter feature from just about every core rulebook archetype to some of the specific player companions/primers, and made them into talents. Since you’ll be getting the ability to get a talent every level, you’ll be able to pick and choose exactly what you want, including a bonus feat, incase you for some reason missed them!

Of course, they added some of their own, both giving you bonus on certain skills and letting you reroll twice on them, or even getting an extra 5 skill points to make you able to do more then just acrobatics. My favorite however is Vital Combat, allowing you to add your vital strike extra dice on your first of your iterative attacks with a single weapon.

As far as power is concerned, this if ANYTHING, pushes the Fighter more to the viability scale. Power wise, at most if a fighter takes only bonus feats as his talent… he’ll end up with 1 more feat total, losing out on… Class features and capstones. Not to mention they are only combat feats, too, so a Drow Fighter won’t be able to jump up on his Drow Nobility chain any quicker then any other class.

The PDF ends with some ideas on how to make your own Fighter talents, including some products that will just about fit right in for fighter talents, using the Armiger, the Witch Hunter and the #1 Bullets with a point as suggestions.

I’m quite surprised at how much I like this. Normally, again, I’ve never really been a huge fan of the core fighter, but this is how it’s done, SGG basically cut out parts that didn’t make sense, and gives you the ability to say “Hey, you want to do that heavily armored close range archery fighter? Go right ahead!”. The ONLY thing bringing this down has been mentioned before, and it’s the Layout follows the Paizo official alphabetical order, while grouping the talents from the same archetype would make it a little easier to actually reference because this is a little tougher since you have to scour a bit to find what you need.

This gets a 4.5 out of 5, rounded up to 5 for the sake of the review. All and all, probably the best Fighter replacement that keeps its flavor since the Warblade from 3.5, so Bravo. Can’t wait to see additions to this product :)


The Genius Guide to the Talented Fighter: Just what Ive wanted!

5/5

I just got the SGG Guide to the Talented Fighter, and I must say, it’s AMAZING. This product will allow a Player to customize a Fighter-class character to be exactly what they Player wants it to be. It offers fantastic versatility, without sacrificing game balance. The Talented Fighter is even backwards compatible! Specialist or generalist, light fighter or heavy fighter, Footman or cavalry, ranged or melee, single weapon, pole arm, sword-and-board, dual wielder…it’s all there for you!

The rules are set up to allow a Player to make mounted or foot fighters, archers, pikemen, shield specialists who fight in phalanx, light-armor fighters, heavy armor fighters...this is what Fighters have been needing all along!
I play a lot of Fighter-type characters, and sometimes I feel a little...straight-jacketed by the way the Core Class is written. The Talented Fighter allows you to specialize or generalize, as you see fit. You can load yourself down with Feats if you want, because the Talented Fighter gets a Fighter Talent at every level (hence the name). These are similar in power and effect to Rogue Talents, including the option to take a Combat Feat instead of a Talent. So you can alternate between Talents and Feats if you want to follow the original format, or do something else if that’s what you want to do.
Like a lot of Pathfinder classes, the Talented Fighter has access to several “tiers” of the same ability at various levels, only with increased effectiveness as levels progress. Often a character will have to dedicate several Talent picks to improving the same ability if the Player wants that ability to stay “maxxed out”. However, unlike with the Core Class, the Talented Fighter does not have to invest in abilities that the character does not find useful or rely on often. This frees the Player up to invest in other things to make the character more personalized. And since you still get the level-progression, open-ended general Feats, you aren’t missing out on anything!
The book itself is very information intensive. Owen K.C. Stephens tends to pack a lot of crunch into a very tight space in his products, and this is no exception. There are enough pieces of artwork to give the reader landmarks for finding things, and there are a couple of minor editing errors (altho Mr. Stephens has already addressed some of these in another thread). But these should not discourage you from getting a LOT of mileage out of the product.
When I buy a rules supplement, I buy it because I hope that there will be something I can use in my own games. Something cool or imaginative that will expend the frontiers of the game without “jumping the shark” and knocking things out of balance with the rest of the system. The Talented Fighter is that rare, magical unicorn of a supplement that is all useful, balanced, and ingenious information, which will allow an even broader variety of Player Characters and NPCs to be made, and which will be useful for years to come.
I can’t recommend it highly enough!


Interesting Idea, Poor Layout

4/5

Rewriting the entire Fighter class? Ambitious. Let's see if the Geniuses pulled it off, and make sure you read the whole review for this one; I have a lot to say about this product; the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Crunch
While evaluating a product's crunch, we're looking at the product's game mechanics. This product is about 12 pages long, and it has a LOT of rules material in it. The GG2: Talented Fighter focuses on an alternate class for the Fighter that is based on the concept of rogue talents. If you've ever seen the Star Wars Saga Edition RPG, you know what this product will look like, and that shouldn't surprise you considering that Owen K.C. Stephens, the lead Pathfinder Designer for Super Genius Games, was also one of the Lead Designers for that game system. Star Wars Saga was praised for that particular talent system; looking through the various talents confirms that Owen has not forgotten how to balance a talent system.

99% of the fighter talents presented in the book are rehashed versions of existing fighter abilities from various archetypes. This isn't a bad stance to take, but since all of the abilities are also labelled with each archetype that the ability comes from, it gives the reader the feeling that there is nothing new in the product. Ultimately, SGG would have been better off omitting those lines; they don't serve much point instead of a cursory, "We didn't make up this ability! Paizo did!" statement. 4 / 5 Stars.

Flavor
Traditionally, Super Genius Products are flavor-lite, because when we talk about flavor we're talking about the overall tone and feel of the product. SGG Products tend to focus more on "crunch" over "flavor," and that's not really a bad thing given how strong their rules usually are. The Talented Fighter does not possess much flavor, aside from being a "fighter rehash." Several paragraphs are dedicated to SGG explaining to the reader why they felt that the product was a necessary addition to the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game; you don't need to do that, dudes! Chances are you already convinced us because we have to pay before reading your product in the first place. The product itself is a fighter, and it certainly feels like a fighter. 3 / 5 Stars

Texture
This is where the product falls apart for me. This is one of the most disorienting rules documents that I have ever had to read. Its not particularly pleasing to look at; the table looks like something I could have made in Microsoft Word rather than a professional document's table. There are several minor editing errors throughout the document; for example, there are spaces missing between words here and there. This is forgivable when considering the massive amount of rules text in the document (as an author, I recognize that this is probably the hardest part of a rules document to edit). However, the worst part of this document for me was the Fighter Talents. Maybe this is what caused me to review them so poorly under the other two sections, but by god, it honestly looks like Super Genius Games went into every Paizo Rulebook they could find, cut out every ability any fighter or fighter archetype could receive, jiggled the text around a little bit to make them roughly as powerful as a feat, and then pasted them all back into the product. In alphabetical order. If there were headers that said things like this, I wouldn't be complaining.

Crossbow Fighter
The following Fighter Talents increase a character's skill with crossbows.
~ Talent 1
~ Talent 2
~ Talent 3

Ultimately, the product's layout is messy and while I want to see how this product plays in a game, I'm not sure if I can justify using it given how hard it is to actually digest mostly because of its layout. And given Owen's background in the Star Wars RPG, which had every talent organized by theme called Talent Trees, I'm surprised that he was okay with the product looking like this. If this sort of layout issue seems minor to you, that you probably won't mind the document for a whole but as a compulsive organizer, this killed The Genius Guide to the Talented Fighter for me. 2 / 5 Stars.

Final Score & Thoughts
Crunch: 4 / 5
Flavor: 3 / 5
Texture: 2 / 5
Final Score: 4.5 / 5 Stars (round down if layout is important to you, round up if it isn't).

Okay, I realize I just spent 3+ paragraphs picking apart this product, so let me say some nice things about it. I like the general concept. I agree with the product's statement that the Fighter should be able to be built as the most diverse class in terms of its fighting style, and that archetypes cannot deliver on this. I like the comparison to Rogue Talents, and I like that everything is balanced around the cost of a feat. That said, this product does not go far enough and it is not laid out for a reader in mind. I cannot think of a single player I know who would be willing to wade through this unorganized sea of talents when trying to build a character; they'd go for the easier option every time, even if it was less powerful or didn't fit their character as well. The lack of new goodies for the fighter doesn't help this problem much either, and overall the product leaves me with the impression that I'm reading a story I've already read before, except the pages are made from cut up pieces of magazine glued onto the book's pages.

EDIT: There is a talent that allows you to take bonus feats, so my previous comment of going from 11 bonus feats to zero was not accurate. As a result, the product's crunch score was increased from a 3 to a 4.

EDIT 2: A recent errata fixed many of the spelling errors and layout issues I had with the product. I still don't like how all of the talents are lumped together without any "talent trees" for quick search-and-finding, but the little changes do help. As a result, the product's texture score was improved from a 0 to a 2.


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My vote is for the Talented Monk, I'm sure you'll do both justice. Besides, if anything else comes up there is always #1 with a Bullet Point add-ons.

Dark Archive

Those laces on page 11 just don't stand a chance to contain those long.

Scarab Sages Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

Dark_Mistress wrote:
Those laces on page 11 just don't stand a chance to contain those long.

I assume that's leather cord in a leather vest with metal grommets. They'll be fine.

Scarab Sages Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

As promised we have released a follow-up product with more talents (none adapted from archetypes), The Genius Guide to More Fighter Talents


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:


As promised we have released a follow-up product with more talents (none adapted from archetypes), The Genius Guide to More Fighter Talents

Been there. Bought that. Thanks :)

Dark Archive

I got this from one of my players as a present and I must say that I am very satisfied with the class. This is exactly what I needed for my games. Indeed, I worked on a very similar class, but it was just too much work to sift through all the archetypes and pull out talents from them.

I would suggest to now go to Fighter alternative classes, such as Gunslinger. Perhaps the Gunslinger can be broken down into fighter talents? That would allow for even more freedom of choice when creating new characters.

Also, I'm gonna second the Talented Rogue - but I'm gonna ask that Ninja and Assassin are included in breaking down to Talents. The game really needs a base-class Assassin.

Scarab Sages Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

nightflier wrote:
I got this from one of my players as a present and I must say that I am very satisfied with the class. This is exactly what I needed for my games.

I'm glad to hear you find it useful!

nightflier wrote:
I would suggest to now go to Fighter alternative classes, such as Gunslinger. Perhaps the Gunslinger can be broken down into fighter talents? That would allow for even more freedom of choice when creating new characters.

Yeah, I'm working on that. It turns out to actually be pretty tricky. I will likely at least present it as an alternative set of rules.

nightflier wrote:
Also, I'm gonna second the Talented Rogue - but I'm gonna ask that Ninja and Assassin are included in breaking down to Talents. The game really needs a base-class Assassin.

Definitely looking at that, although there are some balance issues with giving some assassins abilities at low-level.

Of course if you just need a flavorful assassin-themed base class, you might take a look at The Genius Guide to the Shadow Assassin. :)


And reviewed first on Endzeitgeist.com, submitted to Nerdtrek and GMS magazien, then also posted here, on DTRPG and d20pfsrd.com's shop. Cheers!

Scarab Sages Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

As always, many thanks for the review!

Contributor

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
nightflier wrote:
I got this from one of my players as a present and I must say that I am very satisfied with the class. This is exactly what I needed for my games.

I'm glad to hear you find it useful!

nightflier wrote:
I would suggest to now go to Fighter alternative classes, such as Gunslinger. Perhaps the Gunslinger can be broken down into fighter talents? That would allow for even more freedom of choice when creating new characters.
Yeah, I'm working on that. It turns out to actually be pretty tricky. I will likely at least present it as an alternative set of rules.

The one thing that always disappointed me about the Gunslinger was that he (or she) just got all of his/her deeds for free. Didn't have to select them like talents, just poof! Deeds.

Scarab Sages Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Alexander Augunas wrote:
The one thing that always disappointed me about the Gunslinger was that he (or she) just got all of his/her deeds for free. Didn't have to select them like talents, just poof! Deeds.

Yeah, I already made one run at increasingly gunslinger flexibility in Ultimate Options: Grit and Gunslingers. And if I do write The Talented Gunslinger, it's very likely to have instructions on how to add that material, since I liked it a lot.


Since it's come up a few times, let me say I would NOT want to see talents sub-divided into trees, for many reasons. The most important is that it would be much more difficult to look up a talent during play, which is when time is at a premium. With everything being a talent, advanced talent, or grand talent, I can just list the talent name with an (a) or (g if needed, and look it up alphabetically. If they are broken into trees,I'd have to either check every tree, or write down what tree every talents on a character sheet came from, which crowds me badly.

Its the same objection many people have to the short feat descriptions being broken up by prerequisite -- a straight alphabetical listing is *always* fastest for look-ups. And since when creating a character either you know what you want (in which case it doesn't matter how it's organized) or you're looking for options (in which case you want to read everythign anyway), I wouldnt be saves any time by talent trees then either.

The standard paizo method is MUCh better IMHO.


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Dark_Mistress wrote:
Those laces on page 11 just don't stand a chance to contain those long.
I assume that's leather cord in a leather vest with metal grommets. They'll be fine.

Of course there might be some surprise value in DM being right and the laces giving out!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Dark_Mistress wrote:
Those laces on page 11 just don't stand a chance to contain those long.
I assume that's leather cord in a leather vest with metal grommets. They'll be fine.
Of course there might be some surprise value in DM being right and the laces giving out!

I'm TriOmegaZero and a redhead, and I approve of this message.

Dark Archive

Any reason why Steel Net (from the Swordlord PrC) was left out as a talent?
It seems that many of the other Swordlords abilities are included.

It would be very useful to a Crane Style practitioner...or is that too useful?

Scarab Sages Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

In playtesting, it stood as as too good when combined with some other options -- and yeah, crane style was part of those combos. But also with the free hand fighter talents available for grabs, I didn't see the need for steel net too.

Dark Archive

I thought that might be the case.

Thank you for your time.

Zenlike


So is this like the qinggong monk version of a fighter?<--Not a bad thing

Scarab Sages Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

Mr. Swagger wrote:
So is this like the qinggong monk version of a fighter?<--Not a bad thing

Kinda, yes. But even more so.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I imagine it would be a terrible headache but it would be really neat to see something like this for sorcerers and wizards, combined. Tear up the bloodlines and spell schools and have different options selectable. I may be the only one interested in such a thing, but I never saw why a sorcerer should be excluded from things like the admixture school.

Also could be just me but I would love to see something like stalwart sorcerer (UA) and battle sorcerer (PH2).

Scarab Sages Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

BigDTBone wrote:
I imagine it would be a terrible headache but it would be really neat to see something like this for sorcerers and wizards, combined.

I am very likely to do Talented Sorcerer and Talented Wizard... eventually. And much like the section on combining monk and rogue, I am sure I'd discuss what happens if you decide to make some level of cross-talent selection available between the two.


Spinning Lance (Ex):
A fighter must have taken weapon mastery with the polearm or spears weapon group and have a base attack bonus of +6 to select the spinning lance talent.

This talent calls for the grand talent feat of Weapon Mastery with polearms or spears, but the problem with that is, there is only one grand talent, given at 20th level, with no options to gain anymore talents after that.

Scarab Sages Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

Delos Fear wrote:
This talent calls for the grand talent feat of Weapon Mastery with polearms or spears

Brain hiccup on my part. The prerequisite should be weapon training, not weapon mastery.

Scarab Sages Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

Many thanks to RJGrady for the review!


Okay, so looking over the talented monk & rogue, there should be fighter edges at lvs 1 & probably 2 just to even out the ability count with normal fighter & keep it competitive with the talented monk & rogue.

Some edge ideas could be:
*any of the bravery & like abilities(cause on the low end, most of those honestly aren't worth spending a talent on)
*additional skills points & class skills(ie, increase skill points to 4+ int mod & add 2-4 class skills to the list),
*the heavy armor proficiencies & tower shields proficiencies(which would be used to pay for the 1rst fighter's edge).

Being able to get an 'edge' chosen from those 3 categories instead of just getting heavy armor & calling it a day should give a lot of options & good low end customization, even if it only is a thing given that at lv 1.

Scarab Sages Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

The reason* I didn't give fighters edges is because they don't need them. In playtest this class has proven competitive with all the other talented options.

It's not so much that edges are more powerful than talents (though certainly some are at the upper end of as-good-as-a-feat, while talents tend to be in the middle of that range) but that edges get out of hand if a character gets lots and lots of them.

While the lack of resource management abilities (no ki points or challenges, for example) and even power curve (a feat is always useful, whenever you get it, and many of the bests scale with level) means there are no fighter abilities that get problematic if you get to acquire them without a limit to how often you do it.

*It's also because I hadn't thought of them yet, but that's because (due to the reasons above) there was no need for them when building talented fighters.


Still, a minor option for customization on the low end wouldn't hurt.

Like I said, Bravery & most of the abilities like it aren't worth taking early on over any other talents and many builds will never need/want heavy armor so it's kind of a wasted thing to have thematically.
Also, dusting off the 3.5 stuff I could get more skill points at the cost of the armor proficiencies that weren't light(which is what I *should* have posted in my suggestion but eh), so I figured the higher armor proficiencies would be a good optional thing to pay for a lv 1 edge.

Using that method, you really could only get the 1 edge at lv 1(maybe at 2 if you want to give it the missing slot from where bravery used to be. though I suspect that was left blank for a reason). I thought of this idea give a little bit more customization options without screwing up the game balance any. It's just a suggestion, though. Mechanically it should be about as strong either way.


So, for the Vital Combat talent, was it intentional to leave out Greater Vital Strike? Or should that be included?

Scarab Sages Contributor

My copy says: "He may also use this ability with Devastating Strike, Greater Vital Strike, Improved Devastating Strike, and Improved Vital Strike if he has those feats."


I'm looking at the talents adapted from the Free-Hand Fighter. Singleton and Greater Singleton are given +1 each, which is a total of +2, rather than +3 in the original. On the other hand, elusive is a single talent that grants up to +4 AC, and mimic a wonkily written ability that replaces armor training 1 through 4 (but has the scaling written as though it just replaces bravery). Intentional? Any thoughts there?

Scarab Sages Contributor

RJGrady wrote:
I'm looking at the talents adapted from the Free-Hand Fighter. Singleton and Greater Singleton are given +1 each, which is a total of +2, rather than +3 in the original.

Yep. That's pretty much a combined effect of playtesting and the ability to combine it with options not available to an original free-hand fighter. And it is based on limiting your offense rather than your defense, so stacking issues can get tricky. While a free-hand fighter gives up armor training (see your question below), a talented fighter can still focus on not being slowed down at all in heavy armor and take singleton, and while he gives up holding a shield, nothing prevents him from getting a shield bonus from some source.

RJGrady wrote:
On the other hand, elusive is a single talent that grants up to +4 AC, and mimic a wonkily written ability that replaces armor training 1 through 4 (but has the scaling written as though it just replaces bravery). Intentional? Any thoughts there?

Elusive is limited to when you are in light armor or no armor, and it scales over levels without the option to spend more talent picks to front-load it. So unlike singleton, it is limited to when you could have heavier armor on, and that makes it less valuable to a talented fighter. In the end, this also ended up being balanced through playtesting.


Added my review. I'm already looking at it for ways to convert it into a sci-fi base class... ;)

Scarab Sages Contributor

Thanks to Doc Outlands for the review!
The retraining of fighter talents (as mentioned in the review) was to retain fighter flexibility. It's not discussed much, and it only comes in in fairly long-running ongoing campaigns, but fighters can retrain their bonus feats per the core rules.
"Upon reaching 4th level, and every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th, and so on), a fighter can choose to learn a new bonus feat in place of a bonus feat he has already learned. In effect, the fighter loses the bonus feat in exchange for the new one. The old feat cannot be one that was used as a prerequisite for another feat, prestige class, or other ability. A fighter can only change one feat at any given level and must choose whether or not to swap the feat at the time he gains a new bonus feat for the level."
That means that while other people are either stuck with their feats, or have to use downtime retraining rules, a fighter who discovers a campaign is much more about shooting down the Harpy Legions than going toe to toe with giants can swap out Lunge for Weapon Focus (crossbow) if he feels the need. I wanted to make sure talented fighters weren't left in the cold in this regard.
It's one of the two "unseen edges" all fighters get, along with the ability to qualify for fighter-only feats. I suppose if *could* strip the fighter down even further, and have these be choices the fighter makes but much like the barbarian's ability to tap a reserve of primal energy (which can be used to fuel rage, or other things), I thought it fairly integral to the fighter concept.

Scarab Sages Contributor

ALSO thanks to Lord Sqwonk , who did a review I somehow missed!

Shadow Lodge

I'm often inspired by Owen's work, and we recently utilized the talented framework to create an alternate fighter class called The Ultimate Gladiator. Keep up the great work Owen!

Scarab Sages Contributor

First, I am blushing!

Second, awesome! See folks, 3pp DO work to build off each other's good ideas!


Which is as it should be!!

...darnit...
Now I'm honor-bound to go check out this piece of work, since well ... one of my players loves gladiators (as do I) *AND* since I plan to use the Talented framework for quick-start character creation in my sci-fi adventure I'm working on.

(having multiple reasons to go get a product makes it easier to justify getting the product... ;) )


Question on Twin Blades talent.

Twin Blades (Ex): [Archetype – Two-Weapon Warrior] When wielding two melee weapons or a double weapon in two hands, the fighter gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls when making a full attack that includes offhand
attacks. This bonus counts as (and does not stack with) weapon mastery.
This talent may be taken more than once,but not more than once per 4 levels.

Based on the actual archetype, I am assuming that you meant does not stack with Weapon Training. Is that correct?

Since Twin Blades is not as flexible as Weapon Training, I was thinking it could be taken more often then Wpn Training. But the last sentence makes it sound like it can be taken at 4th, 8th, 12th etc. Was the intent 1 additional time for every 4 levels? So 1st, 4th, 8th, 12th etc?

Thanks


Yes, it should say weapon training.

Actually in many ways Twin Blades is MORE flexible than weapon training. Weapon training applies to a group of related weapons. Twin Blades applies to any weapon used as part of a full-attack with an off-hand attack. You could apply it to a shortsword-and-dagger, or orc double axe, which are otherwise unrelated in any way.

In any case, 4th, 8th, 12th, and so on is correct.


Ok. I was looking more at Wpn training applying to both single and full attacks. But you make a good point.(And why you work for Paizo and run your own 3pp company.)


Many thanks to Bob_Loblaw for the review!

It's especially gratifying for older books, since books that are 3+ years old often don't garner much attention.

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