Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Chronicle of the Righteous (PFRPG)

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Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Chronicle of the Righteous (PFRPG)
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Pray for Mercy
The empyreal lords watch over the infinite expanses of the multiverse to ensure that good can flourish and that evil, no matter its form, can be vanquished. But even these powers cannot stem the tide of evil by themselves, and they must often rely on their celestial servants—noble angels, wise agathions, unrelenting archons, and free-spirited azatas—to lead the charge against the forces of corruption. Together, these virtuous forces wage an unending war against the blasphemous and the profane, all the while lifting worthy mortals to stations of ever-greater glory among the boundless celestial spheres.

Inside this book, you’ll find:

  • A thorough exploration of over 50 empyreal lords, including details on their minions, the divine powers they bestow upon mortal worshipers, and the celestial realms from which they hail.
  • Rules for the mystery cultist prestige class and details on the various types of mystery cults.
  • Methods to bolster mortal spellcasters’ efforts while summoning all the different types of celestials.
  • New spells for spellcasters to hurl at their wicked foes and new magic items to aid adventurers in their battles against evil.
  • Rules for rituals of self-mortification and the divine powers that can be gleaned by such acts of devotion.
  • A bestiary of five new celestials to assist or oppose player characters, including the keen-eyed spyglass archon and the veranallia, azata master of seasons, growth, and decay.

Chronicle of the Righteous is intended for use with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game and Pathfinder Campaign Setting, but can easily be used in any fantasy game setting.

By Amber Scott

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-506-8

Note: This product is part of the Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscription.

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Heavenly!

5/5

Chronicle of the Righteous is about the servants, worshippers, and homes of a group of beings in Golarion (Pathfinder's campaign setting) called "Empyreal Lords." Empyreal Lords are hard to define exactly; they're divine beings that inspire small groups of worshippers (called Mystery Cults), but they're not major deities that attract thousands of worshippers and the building of major temples. They might be best thought of as demigods, because they're below deities but above normal "celestial" races like angels. That's my best guess anyway, as I'm still a little bit fuzzy on the role of Empyreal Lords in Golarion. But put that to one side: Chronicle of the Righteous is a fascinating book that has inspired me to want to integrate Empyreal Lords, Mystery Cults, and more into my campaigns. The book is a 64-page entry in the Campaign Setting line. The inside front cover is a list of approximately fifty Empyreal Lords, their alignment, areas of concern (portfolios), domains (that they grant to clerical worshippers), and favored weapons. The inside back cover is a full-page reproduction of the cover art, which is quite impressive in its own right. Between the the covers are nine sections.

1. "Tabris's Return to Heaven" (two pages): This is a dense account, written in a "handwritten" font, that tells the tale of a warrior-scholar angel named Tabris who was obsessed with fully exploring and detailing the heights and depths of the heavenly and fiendish realms. Tabris disappeared for decades before returning with his Chronicle of the Righteous, and the book contained secrets that even the celestial realms would have rather been suppressed! It's quite evocative and well-written, and surprisingly effective. It's definitely a flavourful way to start the book off.

2. " Lords of the Empyrean" (29 pages): Each of the major Empyreal Lords receives at least a half-page entry that describes them and their particular interests, along with a drawing of their holy symbol and information on what types of people worship them, where their shrines might be located, and what sorts of celestial beings act as their minions. I would say that every third or fourth Empyreal Lord receives a full-colour picture, and these are done quite well. Perhaps the most important thing in this section is the introduction of the concept of "Celestial Obedience" and "Boons." Celestial Obedience is a feat that can be taken by worshippers of Empyreal Lords and provides them with an immediate +4 sacred bonus to something like (depending on the particular Emypreal Lord worshipped) a certain type of saving throw, combat maneuver check, AC against a particular type of enemy, etc. The benefit is narrow in scope and certainly not game-breaking, but additional powers ("boons") are gained at character levels 12, 16, and 20--and some of these are pretty cool. The best part of the Celestial Obedience concept is that, although it can certainly be taken by clerics, paladins, and other divinely-focussed classes, it doesn't have to be. If your Cavalier is a worshipper of the Ragathiel, the Empyreal Lord of chivalry or your Bard is a worshipper of Seramaydiel, the Empyreal Lord of communication and music, they can gain the benefits of Celestial Obedience. It's a great way to make the gods (or demigods) meaningful to more than just clerics in a campaign.

3. "Celestrial Realms" (2 pages): This is a description of the major geographical features of the celestial realms: Elysium, Heaven, and Nirvana. I have to admit I've never had characters adventure in celestial realms, and I have no idea what it would be like to GM or role-play such a place. I suppose it's good to have something more concrete to heaven than fluffy clouds. I did like how there was mention of where mortals who plane shift to each realm are most likely to appear.

4. "Celestialkind" (6 pages): After an introduction to celestial races and a sidebar about what happens to mortal souls who reach the celestial realms ("petitioners"), each of the following varieties of good-aligned denizens of the celestial planes receives a full page description: Agathions, Angels, Archons, and Azatas. I think this would be especially useful for those pesky spellcasters who are prone to summoning celestial beings willy-nilly.

5. "Concordance" (2 pages): Although only two pages long, this is one of my favorite sections of the book. The premise is that "once an eon, and only in times of great danger or turmoil" all of the divine powers of the celestial planes gather together to reach an accord on what should be done. There's material here about the death of Aroden, Lamashtu's rise to power, hints about a deity interested in time-travel, and, most intriguing of all, "The Seventh Accord", a Concordance never spoken of in the centuries or millennia since it happened and considered so blasphemous and dangerous that no mention of it is permitted to exist. Great fodder for creative GMs!

6. "Empyreal Worship" (14 pages): This section is a grab-bag of material, but it's useful. There's a page on how the different divine classes relate to Empyreal Lords, two pages on different types of Mystery Cults (drawn broadly among themes, but useful), and two pages on "secret offerings" that can be made to improve one's chance in summoning a particular type of celestial being. Two pages are also devoted to Rituals of Mortification, which requires a character to invest a certain number of days going without food, water or sleep in order to gain both an affliction and a benefit. The actual rituals listed are said to be examples only and GMs should feel free to add more. The Ritual of Appetite, for example, requires two days' fasting, afflicts the character with a -2 penalty on Constitution checks and saves vs. disease and poison, but grants the character a +2 sacred bonus on concentration checks and Will saving throws. Other rituals are far more powerful, with one providing a +4 sacred bonus on attack rolls against evil creatures and a +4 bonus on caster level checks to overcome their spell resistance! I haven't used these rituals in play, and I'm not sure whether they would be balanced or not, especially because part of the mechanism is the infliction of nonlethal damage once a day, but nonlethal damage heals quite easy. So the idea is interesting, but I'd have to test this concept out more before I'd be confident it's a good addition to the game. Next, there's an important new prestige class introduced here: the Mystery Cultist. A Mystery Cultist gains spells at the same speed as their prior class and several celestial-themed abilities, but a big reason for playing one is that they can receive the "boons" of the Celestial Obedience feat a few levels earlier than a regular character. I'd be very tempted to try this class out, as it seems to both fit the flavour of Empyreal Lord worship and be mechanically sound. After this, here are two pages of new spells (6 in all), with specific mention that these are not restricted to worshippers of Mystery Cults (and a couple of the spells are arcane in nature). I would love to see "Charitable Impulse" in a game, as it forces someone to help others and gradually give away all of their possessions instead of committing acts of violence. Last, there are two pages of celestial-themed magic items.

7. "Lesser Empyreal Lords" (1 page): About two dozen Empyreal Lords that were, for whatever reason, not significant enough to be included in the first section receive a brief, one-sentence description here.

8. "Fallen Celestials" (1 page): Intriguing description of those celestial beings who have turned their back on the heavens, many of whom have joined the infernal realms.

9. "The Celestial Hosts" (8 pages): This is basically a bestiary. It helpfully puts into table format all of the Agathions, Angels, Archons, and Azatas introduced in other Pathfinder materials, and then describes five new ones: Cervinal Agathions, Balisse Angels, Choral Angels, Spyglass Archons, and Vernallia Azatas. I found the new creatures interesting and potentially useful (except for the Choral Angels, which were a bit too cliche for me).

In sum, there's a lot of material here and it's almost all great. I picked this book up by chance (it was half-price) and have never done much with the celestial realms in a game, but I can now definitely see why I might want to in the future; and if I do, I'm confident that Chronicle of the Righteous would be the first place I'd turn.


Want More!

5/5

Few of the books in RP that I never wanted to end. The flavor and stats in this book are awesome and highly useful for people that find that they are not fitting into the 'standard gods' but your not a deviant into the other alignments.

There is something for almost everyone good aligned, investigators have two options of Emperial Lords who they can follow and seem perfectly inline with their 'deity's' viewpoints. Spies and artisans have options, crusaders have more than just Iomedae's views. Good aligned nature gods - sure you don't have to be purely neutral.

There are many options and the mechanics are useful but are more geared towards games that would end up in higher level range (12+) but would add a lot of good flavor without being overpowered.


Everyman Product Reviews: Chronicles of the Righteous

5/5

Final Score & Thoughts
Crunch: 5/5 Stars
Flavor: 5/5 Stars
Layout: 4/5 Stars
Final Score: 14/15 Stars, or 4.5 Stars, rounded up for it’s flavor.

Chronicles of the Righteous is a must-own book if you do absolutely anything with good outsiders in your campaign. This book provides a much needed insight into the nature of the celestial races and provides plenty of fodder for potential gods and entities in your campaign setting. This product is a rich tapestry of righteousness that your Pathfinder collection is incomplete without.

Read the complete review at the Everyman Gaming blog.


Excellent Book!

5/5

Read my full review on my blog.

Overall, Chronicle of the Righteous is an excellent book, particularly due to its extensive list of Empyreal Lords. It helps to balance out the playing field between the forces of evil and the forces of good. While gamemasters may have less call for information on celestials than they do information on fiends, the do have some call for that information, and this book fills that niche splendidly.


This is a fantastic book!

5/5

It is up there with Lords of Madness, Book of Fiends and Demonomicon of Iggwilv in the amount and quality of information it provides on the various Empyreal Lords and the other celestials. The author should be proud of this creation!

As for the material, there is an awesome list of new sources for divine casters as well as other information on new celestial creatures. I especially like the inclusion of Tabriss, the Celestial Realms, Concordance and the Fallen Celestials.

Do yourself and your players a favor, go out and pick up this book now!


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Mikaze wrote:
DeciusNero wrote:

Love the cover - celestials need more love.

A bunch of celestial lords and illistrated holy symbols?! Sounds great! The lords of darkness, while a fan, seem to hog the spotlight too much.

Wonder if any of them are patrons of alchemy? A player of a good alchemist complained of them having an 'evil dispostion', what with powers like Norgober/Blackfingers, Abraxas, and Haagenti.

I could see a lord from Nirvana emphasizing herbs and concoctions for achieving enlightenment :)

Given the talk of alchemy getting some unusual treatment in Champions of Purity, I get the feeling there will probably be an appropriate patron in there somewhere. :)

Can't help but wonder if Ragathiel has some fiendish features hidden in the cover. He does seem to have the Peri-style wings going on, which certainly works for his history....

Can't believe I never thought about Ragathiel possibly being Peri-related when he's almost the textbook example...

Not a Peri... he is the son of a demigoddess from the Plane of Fire and Dispater.

Silver Crusade

I wouldn't say exactly a Peri, but very related. Especially since Peris are identified as "descendants of fallen angels". And his dad is one of the most infamous angels to take the plunge into perdition. ;)


Ragathiel is pretty cool. Still leads me to believe that Dispater is the one archdevil that could conceivably be redeemed.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Dispater's article in the last issue of Kobold Quarterly was certainly interesting. There was plenty of fuel for folks that would like ot view him that way.

But man there's a lot of evidence to the contrary supplied as well. Those sacrifice details... :O

He's the most personable and relatable of the archdevils. And that's probably part of what makes him one of the most dangerous to get close to.

No matter which way you lean(or in between), that article is a total must-read. :)

(info on Dis and his ex-wives too!)


Mikaze wrote:

Dispater's article in the last issue of Kobold Quarterly was certainly interesting. There was plenty of fuel for folks that would like ot view him that way.

But man there's a lot of evidence to the contrary supplied as well. Those sacrifice details... :O

He's the most personable and relatable of the archdevils. And that's probably part of what makes him one of the most dangerous to get close to.

No matter which way you lean(or in between), that article is a total must-read. :)

(info on Dis and his ex-wives too!)

Agreed. That series of articles by Wes Schneider is one of many reasons why I'm sad to see the magazine go. Wes had an awesoe thing going with the articles.


Are those articles Golarion canon?

Silver Crusade

Yep! Those specific archdevil articles and quite a few others spread out across many other issues are official stuff!

(there's plenty of general use stuff that fits beautifully into Golarion as well(<3 Adriel from #4 forever))


Odraude wrote:
Are those articles Golarion canon?

It is written for Golarion by the Lord of Devils himself, yes. Cheliax and Hellknights are mentioned and there's plenty of name dropping that points to the Pathfinder cosmology.

EDIT: Or what Mikaze said.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Mikaze wrote:

He's the most personable and relatable of the archdevils. And that's probably part of what makes him one of the most dangerous to get close to.

No matter which way you lean(or in between), that article is a total must-read. :)

(info on Dis and his ex-wives too!)

Which one is it? I'm a big fan of Dispater since Fiendish Codex I. Also, is there one on Glasya, Levistus, and Mephistophles?

Silver Crusade

Heine Stick wrote:
Odraude wrote:
Are those articles Golarion canon?
It is written for Golarion by the Lord of Devils himself, yes. Cheliax and Hellknights are mentioned and there's plenty of name dropping that points to the Pathfinder cosmology.

Also, domains for Ragathiel's mom, Feronia. :)

Silver Crusade

DeciusNero wrote:
Mikaze wrote:

He's the most personable and relatable of the archdevils. And that's probably part of what makes him one of the most dangerous to get close to.

No matter which way you lean(or in between), that article is a total must-read. :)

(info on Dis and his ex-wives too!)

Which one is it? I'm a big fan of Dispater since Fiendish Codex I. Also, is there one on Glasya, Levistus, and Mephistophles?

It was the last issue, Kobold Quarterly #23(IIRC). The issue before that had Barbatos. I think the original plan was to go through all 8 of Asmodeus' running crew in order.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

One thing I particularly liked about the two articles that were published was manifestations. Pretty cool concept.

Silver Crusade

Heine Stick wrote:
One thing I particularly liked about the two articles that were published was manifestations. Pretty cool concept.

srsly, that's something that needs to get brought back and expanded upon.

Man, Wrath of the Righteous could probably put demonic variations of that to very good(and horrifying use).

(then again...so could these incoming Empyreal Lords in that same AP!)


Mikaze wrote:
DeciusNero wrote:
Mikaze wrote:

He's the most personable and relatable of the archdevils. And that's probably part of what makes him one of the most dangerous to get close to.

No matter which way you lean(or in between), that article is a total must-read. :)

(info on Dis and his ex-wives too!)

Which one is it? I'm a big fan of Dispater since Fiendish Codex I. Also, is there one on Glasya, Levistus, and Mephistophles?
It was the last issue, Kobold Quarterly #23(IIRC). The issue before that had Barbatos. I think the original plan was to go through all 8 of Asmodeus' running crew in order.

Maybe Wes can get on Open Gaming Monthly and continue with those articles.

HINT HINT WES!! ;)

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Thanks, Mikaze!

And yes, some more would be nice!


Mikaze wrote:
(then again...so could these incoming Empyreal Lords in that same AP!)

I hadn't even thought about that. Heavenly manifestations...yeah, that needs to happen!

Lantern Lodge

Mikaze wrote:

Yep! Those specific archdevil articles and quite a few others spread out across many other issues are official stuff!

(there's plenty of general use stuff that fits beautifully into Golarion as well(<3 Adriel from #4 forever))

Is there a compilation of these articles somewhere?

Would really love to read up more on in-game lore.

Silver Crusade

Secane wrote:

Is there a compilation of these articles somewhere?

Would really love to read up more on in-game lore.

I don't think so, and I'm not sure what the reprint situation would be like in that case. But they're all still available in the individual KQ issues(some in print, ALL in pdf!).

I believe the product descriptions for each issue says which ones are PF specific, but I'm not sure if any would slip through the cracks looking back that way.

They were even printing PFS scenarios in there from time to time!

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I hope that not all Empyreal Lords presented in the book are of "TURBO GOOD" variety, and there are at least a few whose interpretation of what is "good" does not exactly mesh with your average PCs ideas of it, opening avenues for conflict.

Because there are few things cooler than "see, this guy here is a walking personification of Good. He shoots Beams of Redemption from his eyes. Also, he's in your way."

Liberty's Edge

Gorbacz wrote:

I hope that not all Empyreal Lords presented in the book are of "TURBO GOOD" variety, and there are at least a few whose interpretation of what is "good" does not exactly mesh with your average PCs ideas of it, opening avenues for conflict.

Because there are few things cooler than "see, this guy here is a walking personification of Good. He shoots Beams of Redemption from his eyes. Also, he's in your way."

We can't even get the players to agree on what defines good and evil... I think we are safe. :P


If by "good" you mean killing people/creatures and taking there stuff then yes;)

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Gorbacz wrote:

I hope that not all Empyreal Lords presented in the book are of "TURBO GOOD" variety, and there are at least a few whose interpretation of what is "good" does not exactly mesh with your average PCs ideas of it, opening avenues for conflict.

Seconded; hopefully no, "alcohol and sex is evil/unpure" silliness.

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
DeciusNero wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:

I hope that not all Empyreal Lords presented in the book are of "TURBO GOOD" variety, and there are at least a few whose interpretation of what is "good" does not exactly mesh with your average PCs ideas of it, opening avenues for conflict.

Seconded; hopefully no, "alcohol and sex is evil/unpure" silliness.

Considering that the deity of having quality time with wine and fine company with little in the way of clothing on is Chaotic Good in Golarion and there were hints about a transgender Empyreal Lord, I believe Paizo will stick close to their usual guns as far as booze and shagging are concerned.

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Gorbacz wrote:
DeciusNero wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:

I hope that not all Empyreal Lords presented in the book are of "TURBO GOOD" variety, and there are at least a few whose interpretation of what is "good" does not exactly mesh with your average PCs ideas of it, opening avenues for conflict.

Seconded; hopefully no, "alcohol and sex is evil/unpure" silliness.
Considering that the deity of having quality time with wine and fine company with little in the way of clothing on is Chaotic Good in Golarion and there were hints about a transgender Empyreal Lord, I believe Paizo will stick close to their usual guns as far as booze and shagging are concerned.

Not just hinted at! Arshea not only can't be contained by one gender, IIRC s/he also embodies every positive aspect of every healthy form of sexuality.

And that Desna/Shelyn/Sarenrae fanart has turned out to be essentially canon.

And Cayden Cailean's relationships with Calistria(who is also gender-flippy at times, hmm...) have been mentioned as well.

And Torag and Cayden are drinking buddies.

Good isn't in any danger of being portrayed as sex-negative or alcohol-forbidding here. :)

Shadow Lodge

Better question is why is that somehow a bad thing? While CC might be all about drinking and whoring, I doubt for instance Iomedae or Erastil would see any virtue in it, and probably a lot of vice as it can directly contrindicate their spheres of influence as well as derail from what their followers should be doing.

Iori, likewise would probably see both as ways to fall from the path of enlightenment and traps for those that seek to better themselves. Deemphasizing something to be "modern and mainstream" doesn't make it cool. On the other hand, showing to what level of moderation or in what circumstances different Good faiths do accept these things, particularly if it does range from extremely little to encouraged without trying to be heavy handed in the personal point of view through the setting would be great.

Contributor

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Mikaze wrote:


Good isn't in any danger of being portrayed as sex-negative or alcohol-forbidding here. :)

Let's go for a good aligned version of Zon-Kuthon now. There's too long of a tradition in D&D of whips and body piercings being the exclusive club of evil.

Something in the sense of 'voluntarily submit yourself into my care and I will expand your boundaries. Bow to me and I will expand your senses. Kneel and I will make you better. I will break you and make you stronger. You will suffer and I will melt away your flaws. You will suffer and in knowing that pain you will know what others have and will feel in this world, except that their suffering is not voluntary at the hands of the wicked. Know suffering and learn compassion. But first, suffer for me.'


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber
Todd Stewart wrote:
Mikaze wrote:


Good isn't in any danger of being portrayed as sex-negative or alcohol-forbidding here. :)

Let's go for a good aligned version of Zon-Kuthon now. There's too long of a tradition in D&D of whips and body piercings being the exclusive club of evil.

Something in the sense of 'voluntarily submit yourself into my care and I will expand your boundaries. Bow to me and I will expand your senses. Kneel and I will make you better. I will break you and make you stronger. You will suffer and I will melt away your flaws. You will suffer and in knowing that pain you will know what others have and will feel in this world, except that their suffering is not voluntary at the hands of the wicked. Know suffering and learn compassion. But first, suffer for me.'

*hands out copies of Jacqueline Carey's Kushiel series to everyone*

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Sort of like Ilmater from FR? All about suffering and enduring suffering, and helping others to make it through, to become stronger, but also fighting against suffering and tyrrany that causes it.

Lantern Lodge

Mikaze wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
DeciusNero wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:

I hope that not all Empyreal Lords presented in the book are of "TURBO GOOD" variety, and there are at least a few whose interpretation of what is "good" does not exactly mesh with your average PCs ideas of it, opening avenues for conflict.

Seconded; hopefully no, "alcohol and sex is evil/unpure" silliness.
Considering that the deity of having quality time with wine and fine company with little in the way of clothing on is Chaotic Good in Golarion and there were hints about a transgender Empyreal Lord, I believe Paizo will stick close to their usual guns as far as booze and shagging are concerned.

Not just hinted at! Arshea not only can't be contained by one gender, IIRC s/he also embodies every positive aspect of every healthy form of sexuality.

And that Desna/Shelyn/Sarenrae fanart has turned out to be essentially canon.

And Cayden Cailean's relationships with Calistria(who is also gender-flippy at times, hmm...) have been mentioned as well.

And Torag and Cayden are drinking buddies.

Good isn't in any danger of being portrayed as sex-negative or alcohol-forbidding here. :)

I notice that most Golarion Deities embody some kinda flaw. Be it 2 sides of the same coin in some way. Or just not... perfect in what they are.

Sarenrae - Goddess of healing AND beat the crap out of you.

Shelyn - Goddess of love/art/beauty AND have an evil weapon as a her favored weapon. Not to mention an evil brother.

------------

I can totally see a empyreal lord of alcohol-forbidding, being the cup-bearer of the other gods.

Or having a history of alcoholism, and only got alcohol-forbidding after coming out of AA him/herself.

On a similar note.

A empyreal lord that is sex-negative, may once be the herald of Calistria.

Or a he can be like the Zhu Bajie aka "Pigsy" from the Journey to the West story.
In another words, an empyreal lord that "lust" after sex, but being forbidden to enjoy/take part in such acts, becomes a being that opposes sex instead.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pawns, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Mikaze wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
DeciusNero wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:

I hope that not all Empyreal Lords presented in the book are of "TURBO GOOD" variety, and there are at least a few whose interpretation of what is "good" does not exactly mesh with your average PCs ideas of it, opening avenues for conflict.

Seconded; hopefully no, "alcohol and sex is evil/unpure" silliness.
Considering that the deity of having quality time with wine and fine company with little in the way of clothing on is Chaotic Good in Golarion and there were hints about a transgender Empyreal Lord, I believe Paizo will stick close to their usual guns as far as booze and shagging are concerned.

Not just hinted at! Arshea not only can't be contained by one gender, IIRC s/he also embodies every positive aspect of every healthy form of sexuality.

And that Desna/Shelyn/Sarenrae fanart has turned out to be essentially canon.

And Cayden Cailean's relationships with Calistria(who is also gender-flippy at times, hmm...) have been mentioned as well.

And Torag and Cayden are drinking buddies.

Good isn't in any danger of being portrayed as sex-negative or alcohol-forbidding here. :)

Also just to mention that Cayden's HOLY SYMBOL is a mug of beer...

Also, where is this fan art? :)

Silver Crusade

Todd Stewart wrote:
Mikaze wrote:


Good isn't in any danger of being portrayed as sex-negative or alcohol-forbidding here. :)

Let's go for a good aligned version of Zon-Kuthon now. There's too long of a tradition in D&D of whips and body piercings being the exclusive club of evil.

Something in the sense of 'voluntarily submit yourself into my care and I will expand your boundaries. Bow to me and I will expand your senses. Kneel and I will make you better. I will break you and make you stronger. You will suffer and I will melt away your flaws. You will suffer and in knowing that pain you will know what others have and will feel in this world, except that their suffering is not voluntary at the hands of the wicked. Know suffering and learn compassion. But first, suffer for me.'

Given Arshea's scope(and her favored weapon), there might be some of that possible with that Empyreal even if it isn't his/her primary focus. I know s/he has Liberation as a big deal, but then again, metaphirally speaking that could fit as well.

Along those same lines, I seriously can't see Shelyn not being that for those seeking the healthy form of it. "Roses have thorns" and such. :)

Future campaign plans:
Given where a certain characer wound up in our CotCT campaign and certain NPCs in Shattered Star, I'm hoping to lead up to and run a Mythic-ish "Save Dou-Bral" campaign one day. Seriously considering a "Thornkissed" template along with "Chainwracked" to represent the kytons, angels, and other beings devoted to Shelyn, Zon-Kuthon, and even Dou-Bral That Was being pulled back and forth during that painful conflict.

If Dou-Bral does get restored(Probably in a halfway state between what he was and what he became), he might wind up having that kind of flavor.

But yeah, something that didn't treat that particular crowd like warped villains would be really nice, and it wouldn't even have to be sexualized. It could be a philosophical parallel(kind of like Ilmater with a bit of a different spin?). With the sexual aspects being welcomed. (but strictly adhering to SSC!)

Non-Golarion specific tangent:
Those Guys took on a self-imposed challenge to make a LG deity representing BDSM. Everyone's milage will vary on how they pulled it off(personally it seems made more for Couples' Randy Game Night than for general use), but it does show that someone took a swing at the idea of positive representations of BDSM folks in RPGLand.


NSFW given the culture of the site that spawned it of course

edit-You know, Champions of Purity is going to have self-mortification options...

Silver Crusade

Secane wrote:

I notice that most Golarion Deities embody some kinda flaw. Be it 2 sides of the same coin in some way. Or just not... perfect in what they are.

Sarenrae - Goddess of healing AND beat the crap out of you.

Shelyn - Goddess of love/art/beauty AND have an evil weapon as a her favored weapon. Not to mention an evil brother.

------------

I can totally see a empyreal lord of alcohol-forbidding, being the cup-bearer of the other gods.

Or having a history of alcoholism, and only got alcohol-forbidding after coming out of AA him/herself.

On a similar note.

A empyreal lord that is sex-negative, may once be the herald of Calistria.

Or a he can be like the Zhu Bajie aka "Pigsy" from the Journey to the West story.
In another words, an empyreal lord that "lust" after...

Yeah, it should be noted that the concerns some folks had were probably more "I hope Good in general, across the board, isn't portrayed as sex-negative or alchohol forbidding".

Because there is totally room in Good's big tent for the chaste and abstaining, and they shouldn't be marginalized any more than the folks that often were up to this point. :)

I have a feeling Korada might represent some of that, but could be wrong. I'm eager to see which way his benign asceticism goes.(he's one of the ones we know of already I'm most excited to see expanded upon)

("Cursed"/ailment-suffering/imperfect Empyreals will hopefully be a thing!)

((and now I want a Pigsy analogue, primarily just to have a Pigsy(and Monkey and Tripitaka)in the pantheon :D))

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Gorbacz wrote:
DeciusNero wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:

I hope that not all Empyreal Lords presented in the book are of "TURBO GOOD" variety, and there are at least a few whose interpretation of what is "good" does not exactly mesh with your average PCs ideas of it, opening avenues for conflict.

Seconded; hopefully no, "alcohol and sex is evil/unpure" silliness.
Considering that the deity of having quality time with wine and fine company with little in the way of clothing on is Chaotic Good in Golarion and there were hints about a transgender Empyreal Lord, I believe Paizo will stick close to their usual guns as far as booze and shagging are concerned.

True, and not against having an empyreal lord/deity saying that sex/drugs/rock 'n roll is forbidden. I just don't want Book of Exalted Deeds redux, which I'm sure won't happen ;^.^

Anyway! Looking forward!


DeciusNero wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
DeciusNero wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:

I hope that not all Empyreal Lords presented in the book are of "TURBO GOOD" variety, and there are at least a few whose interpretation of what is "good" does not exactly mesh with your average PCs ideas of it, opening avenues for conflict.

Seconded; hopefully no, "alcohol and sex is evil/unpure" silliness.
Considering that the deity of having quality time with wine and fine company with little in the way of clothing on is Chaotic Good in Golarion and there were hints about a transgender Empyreal Lord, I believe Paizo will stick close to their usual guns as far as booze and shagging are concerned.

True, and not against having an empyreal lord/deity saying that sex/drugs/rock 'n roll is forbidden. I just don't want Book of Exalted Deeds redux, which I'm sure won't happen ;^.^

Anyway! Looking forward!

What was the issue with the BoED?

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Odraude wrote:


What was the issue with the BoED?

I guess I just felt most of the fluff was geared to portraying celestially inspired characters/divine patrons as more Puritan in flavor - being chaste, not imbibing, etc.

Also with spells having RP stuff as balance mechanics, such as "you can't cast this spell if you drank alcohol in the past x days."

(I also had a similar reaction to BoVD - I felt it went too far in portraying evil as super-grim dark - which, yes, it's what evil usually is, but I felt it was sometimes bordering on squick.)


Perram wrote:
Also, where is this fan art? :)

I won't link directly to it, but if you Google "paheal" and "rule34", then search on the resulting site for Sarenrae, Desna, and Shelyn... you might find something of interest. ^.^


Was it canon before the picture or after?

Silver Crusade

The hints were in place before the picture, IIRC. The confirmation of what the hints implied was confirmed afterwards. :)

I think all of the hints came from Desna's article, under the "Relations with other deities" section.

Silver Crusade

and to try and get back on topic because TWO MORE MONTHS:

Also really excited about the possible new information on Jatembe. Maybe we'll get to find out some of the finer details of his exploits in between learning about the celestial magic he possibly brought to Golarion.

(That is, if it is Jatembe that was being referred to elsewhere!)

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Todd Stewart wrote:
Let's go for a good aligned version of Zon-Kuthon now. There's too long of a tradition in D&D of whips and body piercings being the exclusive club of evil.

Heck yeah. A good rune-magic-sort of dude covered with magical tattoos and / or a dwarven empyreal who has set gems and golden ornaments directly into their body, and encourages their followers to do likewise, could be neat.

Also, a happy jolly good aligned fat empyreal could be a shocker. Generally, fat people are like ugly people, really old people or people with piercings in game art, always evil, or at least sketchy and amoral.

It's like a fantasy art rule that the person with the limp hair or the lazy eye or the physical deformity (hunchback, withered hand, etc.) is going to be the evil person. I remember in Dragonlance when the dude who had visible facial scarring from a childhood disease was the traitor to the Knights of Solamnia or whatever, and thinking, 'Wow, Edward James Olmos is doomed to be evil?'

Go Valeros, with your visible scars and yet good alignment!

Silver Crusade

Set wrote:
Heck yeah. A good rune-magic-sort of dude covered with magical tattoos and / or a dwarven empyreal who has set gems and golden ornaments directly into their body, and encourages their followers to do likewise, could be neat.

YES. I can't help but imagine a lot of folks in and around Varisia(but especially in Kaer Maga) "taking back" the Thassilonion fashion of implanted gems, separate from the negative baggage of that culture. Especially after the ioun stone implanting rules introduced in Seekers of Secrets. That aesthetic has to be getting some play with folks using mundane gems as well.

I mean hey, it works for Merisiel! :)

Quote:
Also, a happy jolly good aligned fat empyreal could be a shocker. Generally, fat people are like ugly people, really old people or people with piercings in game art, always evil, or at least sketchy and amoral.

You know...it's far to late to have Cayden Cailean look like Jack Black(srsly, visualize it and say it doesn't fit!), but with the incoming Empyreals, this is something that needs to happen. :D

Dragon Empires gave us a full blown god like that. Hopefully we'll get to see someone similar illustrated?


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somehow the idea of a jolly fat Empyreal Lord made me think of Santa...Decide for yourself whether that is awesome or not.


imokwiththis.jpeg

Project Manager

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Gorbacz wrote:
DeciusNero wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:

I hope that not all Empyreal Lords presented in the book are of "TURBO GOOD" variety, and there are at least a few whose interpretation of what is "good" does not exactly mesh with your average PCs ideas of it, opening avenues for conflict.

Seconded; hopefully no, "alcohol and sex is evil/unpure" silliness.
Considering that the deity of having quality time with wine and fine company with little in the way of clothing on is Chaotic Good in Golarion and there were hints about a transgender Empyreal Lord, I believe Paizo will stick close to their usual guns as far as booze and shagging are concerned.

The thing to remember is that different good deities/empyreal lords have different approaches to goodness, so while some of them may view getting drunk/high/[altered state of choice] as a weakness, or even as an immoral act (voluntarily impairing your judgment/abilities/self-control enough that you risk hurting others), others may see it, in certain circumstances, as a way to open yourself to greater understanding and perception. (Various forms of chemical sensory alteration have a long and honored history in a lot of real-world religions, after all.) The different Empyreal Lords in CotR represent a lot of different viewpoints on the right way to do goodness, and have contrasting views even within the same alignment.

All of that said, insofar as deity-independent alignment-related themes are outlined anywhere in the campaign setting (and this is more in Champions of Purity than CotR), I'd say both altered states and sexuality come out pretty value-neutral. The concept of "purity" is explicitly not tied to celibacy in Champions. Different Empyreal Lords have different approaches to the whole thing, however.

Lantern Lodge

I can now totally see a Hippie Empyreal Lord, smoking "weed" and talking about opening your mind to greater awareness and understanding...

Peace! :D

-----
By the way, will the (newer) Empyreal Lords be PFS legal, once the book is out?


I don't know. I don't see one the fellows using artificial means for a temporary means of mind "Expansion." I could definitely see one focusing on the discipline of Alchemy to attain enlightenment.


Secane wrote:

I can now totally see a Hippie Empyreal Lord, smoking "weed" and talking about opening your mind to greater awareness and understanding...

Peace! :D

-----
By the way, will the (newer) Empyreal Lords be PFS legal, once the book is out?

An halfling empyreal lord of pipeweed!

Project Manager

The NPC wrote:
I don't know. I don't see one the fellows using artificial means for a temporary means of mind "Expansion."

Why?

I suppose Cayden Cailean's take on it is more that alcohol enhances comradery, and not so much about a meditative mind-expanding experience, but when one of your good gods is famous for being drunk you're already on that road.

It's fair to argue with any earth deity whether they're "good" or not, since we don't have an absolute, inarguable, detectable system of alignment in the real world, but Dionysus represents, among other things, just that viewpoint. The use of psychoactive substances for religious purposes has a pretty extensive history here in the real world (see, for example: http://listverse.com/2008/05/11/top-10-psychoactive-substances-used-in-reli gious-ceremonies/).

As I said, there's a wide spectrum of approaches to goodness with the different deities and empyreal lords, and as both psychoactive substances (whether alcohol or others) and sexuality come out pretty value-neutral in Pathfinder overall, you're going to see a bunch of very different takes from different deities. Both of those realms of human experience are powerful, and different religions (both real-world and fictional) are have different philosophies as far as whether to try to harness that power to further their goals or to reject it because of its destructive potential.

Given both A) the breadth of real-world religious traditions from which aspects of Golarion's deities are drawn, and B) the fact that I think most of the numerous contributors to these products recognize that portrayal is not necessarily endorsement, which frees up those contributors to create a lot of different belief systems without being confined to only representing their personal philosophies, you can end up with deities who represent even directly conflicting viewpoints both on the good side of the alignment table.

For example, there are real-world practices of mortification of the flesh (e.g. Catholic self-flagellation) which arise from the belief that pain is purifying, or that there's an opposed dichotomy between flesh and spirit and spirit must be privileged, or even that pain as an intense physical sensation ties flesh and spirit more closely together. In this view, pain is sacred, or at least can be harnessed for sacred purposes. A more mild version of this school of thought results in asceticism (which is less about the pursuit of physical pain than the renunciation of physical pleasure).

In contrast, there's also the real-world philosophy of epicureanism, in which the highest good is pleasure (defined as tranquility and the absence of pain). In this view, pain (or at least causing pain) is evil.

And both of those schools of thought are pretty clearly present in the conceptions of different empyreal lords and the religious practices of their followers.


*Non accusatory* Please note, I wasn't making moral judgements on the matter.

I think my doubt on the matter comes more from the image of "pop a pill or smoke a joint and somehow you're instantly wiser and more aware than those stiffs that harsh your mellow."

I would assume any tradition that includes psychedelics or flagellation has more to than "Want enlightenment? Just add pesh." Wouldn't they be building towards something and the use of such substances or actions be the add on?

As I said this isn't about whether it's good or not. It's about real and long lasting versus fake and short lived.

Project Manager

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Well, most of the real-world traditions are also a lot more than "just add drugs," you know. :-) There are ritual frameworks, context, etc. and the effects of the drugs are channeled into that framework. If you're going on a shamanic quest, there's a bunch of learning and ritual preparation, and the drugs are the things that (in the context of the religious beliefs) help you leave your body to go commune with the divine, or (in the context of those outside the religion), give you hallucinations that you then interpret as religious visions.

I'm not sure how that differs, as to whether it's fake and short-lived versus real and long-lasting, from any other religious practice. Ceremonies, rituals, prayer, etc. are all about what you make of them, whether their focus is symbols, myths, or mysticism (drug-enhanced or not).

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