Way of the Wicked—Book #6: The Wages of Sin (PFRPG) PDF

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Reap what you have sown!

Talingarde is yours! Once the people of this noble nation called you a criminal and branded you as one of the forsaken. Now, by blood and guile, you have seized control of the kingdom.

You are at last victorious.

And this is only the beginning. What shall you do now that you are in power? Will you lead your army in wars of conquest? Will you take revenge on those who once oppressed you? Will you write your name across the pages of history in blood and fire?

There will be no one to stop you this time!

Welcome to the sixth and final chapter of the “Way of the Wicked” adventure path. Inside you’ll find:

  • “The Wages of Sin,” an adventure compatible with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game designed for 18th level villains by Gary McBride
  • Full color illustrations and maps by Michael Clarke
  • New character options for villains by Jason Bulmahn
  • A complete campaign timeline for all six books
  • And More!
Become the tyrant you were born to be! Conquer all who oppose you and fear not—surely there will be no repercussions for your reign of terror.

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Fraud

1/5

I would love to give this product a higher rating but it has been written by a fraudster, Gary McBride, who tricked 315 people into giving him $40,000 through Kickstarter and refused to communicate with them for 4 years now. Despite multiple appeals from backers he has backed over 520 other kickstarters since then, logging in every week though seemingly unable to respond to his backers products. Shame on Paizo for selling the products of a con man and allowing him to continue profiting from rpg fans.

For details of the swindle and Gary McBride’s backing record see https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/730004812/throne-of-night-a-pathfinder -rpg-adventure-path/comments


Reap what you have sown indeed

5/5

The end-game where we're used to the good guys catching up to the bad guys and stomping a mud-hole in 'em. Only now you're the bad guys. Will you indulge in the rewards so long denied you?

Personally, I recommend thoroughly abusing your power over the island. Crush the inevitable rebel scum and try to anticipate the sudden yet inevitable betrayals by (almost) all of your mini-onions.

I strongly recommend the GM exercise the "second option" to conclude the campaign. In other words, give the villains a properly sound thrashing by the Good Guys.

Kill them, kill them all, permanently.


Wages of Sin Review

4/5

Warning: Potential spoilers. Written from a GM's perspective. I ran this for 6 PCs.

Finally, after nearly two years, my group has been able to complete this entire Adventure Path. Like the entries before it, this chapter did not disappoint.

Strengths:
This chapter is jampacked with content. Wages of Sin is basically a giant villain sandbox and the author outright states that the GM will likely have to fill in some gaps for options that they didn't think to include. This is true to a certain extent. For example, my PC were rather interested in the world outside of Talingarde, for which the campaign offers only minimal information. However, for the most part, it seemed like almost everything my PCs wanted to do had been accounted for. I was thoroughly impressed by how often I was able to rely on the prewritten material given the open-ended nature of the campaign.

Another thing that I loved about this book was how it really made the players feel like they were powerful villains. Fights with weaker creatures were mostly handwaved, while the creatures they actually fought all felt legendary and threatening. Also, making them leaders of Talingarde they were empowered to make decisions that would affect the entire nation and have consequences for generations to come. My players really latched on to the politics of it all. Every decision was weighed heavily, as they tried to get all the things they wanted, while trying not to drive the general population into supporting the rebels.

Last, but not least, I have to talk about the final battle. At first I was a little concerned. I saw that the PCs fought the titan and his planar ally, then the combination of Belinda, Antharia and the Solar. Two encounters didn't seem like enough for an epic finale to an almost two year campaign. Boy, was I wrong. The titan went down fairly quickly, but the fight with final three took over two sessions. Belinda looks weak on paper, until you realize that she can combine Mind Blank with Greater Invisibility to become practically unfindable. Antharia is an absolute beast and borderline unhittable by traditional means. The Solar can heal like no one's buisness, all the while still attacking with her dancing greatsword. Add in the fact that all three of them have access to long duration protection spells, like spell immunity and protection from energy...well, your PCs should have a tough time. The combination is an appropriately epic final boss battle.

Weaknesses:
One criticism I had, that I have seen other reviewers mention, is the way the the game handles Princess Belinda. Essentially, she has fled the island to form her army and Mitra has given her a magic item that literally makes it impossible for the PCs to find. Now, Way of the Wicked is no stranger to railroady plot elements. However, for the most part I have been pleasantly surprised by how little of an issue that was for my players. The path the writers provided always seemed to intrigue them enough that they walked down it willingly. However, the Belinda situation in this book was noticeably frustrating for them. Essentially they had to sit there waiting for three years for her to act and they couldn't do anything to stop her.

Probably the biggest weakness of this book is pacing. When I say that this campaign took almost two years, what I really mean is that books 1, 3, 4 and 5 took about 2 months a piece. Book 2 took about 5 months. Book 6 took the rest of the time. With Book 2 I was able to cut out a lot of material, due to its fairly linear nature. However, with Book 6 that was almost impossible, since the content was entirely driven by the actions the PCs wanted to take and initially the players were reluctant to accept time skips because they wanted to get as much done as possible. It took them a while to realize that there was no shortage of in game time to do everything they wanted. The most noticeable impact was on leveling. I used the story based leveling suggestions at the back of this book for most of the campaign. However, I had to modify it a bit for this book, overwise the players would have been level 17, 19 and 20 for about two sessions each and level 18 for the remaining ten months. Instead, I let the PCs level to 19 early and did some rebalancing of later encounters. Still, while I would have liked to have seen this book paced a little more evenly and I think the players would have appreciated a bit more combat, the content was dynamic enough that the game never became too stagnant.

Conclusion:
Ulimately, despite the uneven pacing, this is another excellent addition to the Way of the Wicked adventure path. It thoroughly does its job in offering an epic conclusion to the campaign. Regarding the campaign as a whole, while I have had minor criticisms throughout, I would not hesitate to recommend it to anyone looking to run an evil game. It can be challenging for a GM, due the high level game play and it's unconventional nature. However, the payoff, at least for my table, was a unique and memorable gaming experience.


An Endzeitgeist.com review

5/5

The final chapter in the evil AP Way of the Wicked is 102 pages long, 1 page front cover, 1 page editorial, 1 page ToC, 1 page SRD, 1 page advertisement, 1 page back cover, 2 pages maps of Talingarde, leaving us with 94 pages of content, so let's take a look!

This being a review of the final part of this AP, the following contains SPOILERS - not only for this module, but for the whole AP. Potential players are strongly advised to jump to the conclusion.

All right, still here? Cardinal Adrastus Thorn lies slain, Asmodeus has proclaimed his support of the PCs and they have risen to be High Cardinals of the lord of the ninth - but they still need to clean p their house - the knots are in place, but depending on the actions of the PCs, the remaining knots may prove to be problematic. Take for example Barnabus Thrane (who is called Thrain in text once - unfortunately but one of numerous, accumulating editing glitches throughout the module) - the spymaster and Asmodean sleeper that has infiltrated the clergy - he most definitely will become a mayor problem if the PCs have not secured his cooperation. The man knows much, but can just as well be a worthwhile asset to the PCs claiming Talingarde and changing the clergy of Mitra from within. General Barca, on the other hand, is not a valuable asset - indeed, if the PCs have not killed him and opt to put him on the throne, they'll see their grip weakened by his growing paranoia. The Devils are unproblematic allies as long as the PCs serve the Dark Lord, but what if they falter? For falter they might:

After having slain Chargammon, princess Belinda, the paragon sorceress has been granted a solar and an artifact by Mitra - a veil to hide her from the eyes of all evil-doers and from all mortal magic. A powerful tool indeed to conceal her from the prying eyes of the PCs and plot with her draconic mother Antharia Regina the downfall of the tyrants to be - but more on that later.

If you recall the Hadean Signet in Book V, well the ring awakens and starts beckoning its master to sacrifice an angel, a fiend and a creature of titan-blood to unlock its vast powers - upon the third sacrifice, though, the thanatotic titan bound to the ring is released, seeking to enslave (or kill) all. Wise villains know when to stop and may use the properties of the ring's first two phases - though honestly, I would have expected a way for the ultimate tyrants of Asmodeus' reach in Talingarde to have some way of enslaving the vastly powerful titan - perhaps by besting him in combat thrice (he respawns after 66 days as long as the ring is not destroyed...) or by torture? After all, all spirits can be broken... A bit of a pity here, but oh well. It's not that they need the titan for now, for one of the knots has actually done his job well - Cedrick malthus has gathered a vast army of deadly mercenaries and cutthroats under the command of Volker Eisenmark - provided they can pay the ships to get them to Talingarde, the PCs have a vast army of cutthroats, murderers and people eager for a fresh start - at least 20 thousand strong.

These will be the saviors of Talingarde, for another army waltzes south - Sakkarot's Horde has done its job admirably. But in order to rule a proper land and not some heaps, in order to have a capital, the betrayal must be sprung - and while Sakkarot may falter, he will not fail. Following the plan, if the PCs can show that they are the favored of the Dark Lord, he leads his army to the slaughter in fields where the PCs have a chance to shine in a grand narrative battle where they have pivotal roles in ensuring that no elite humanoids escape the slaughter to hamper the first weeks of their reign. If the PCs have hired the elite mercenary general Eisenmark and brokered a deal with the Frost Giant Queen, they may even have more benefits from this battle - chief of which would be rekindling the hope for a place to be for the Fire-Axe himself - universally loathed and sans home, the PCs could tie him up - or make him one of their fiercest allies.

Speaking of allies - if the PCs have managed to corrupt Sir Richard, he returns from the shackles of hell as an anti-paladin, presented by Dessiter as a candidate for the throne of the puppet-king - and, unbeknownst to the PCs, walking scrying focus for Dessiter. Sir Berithor is his new title and yet another piece falls into place. With the Fire-Axe defeated, the PCs can walk into the city and, after meeting a delegation (including a relative of Barca) that welcomes the unlikely saviors, present their claim to the throne. Meanwhile, the princess is off to a quest on the mainland, gathering her forces - protected, unfortunately, by a plot-fiat device. Honestly, I would have expected some clever rules, ways to bypass the artifact, at least kill her allies - instead, the artifact essentially binds the PC's hands in that regard until the final battle.

Till then, though, the tyrants run free - and the best part of the module happens. The Tyranny-sandbox. Establishing a court of people with varying degrees of usefulness (and ambitions), the PCs have 3 years to enjoy their reign and manage their kingdom. While in the background, the might-score of the kingdom represents the overall power of Talingarde - and almost all decisions have consequences. And oh boy, are there things to do: From the court's machinations to the religious question of whether/how to legalize Asmodeus/ treat the Mitran church, coronation ceremonies etc., the PCs will have to make decisions fast: Whether to worm their way into the hearts of the Mitran believers or usher in brutal pogroms, it's all up to the PCs. Speaking of purging opposition - exterminating the blood of house Darius is an option, though taking them hostage might be wiser and aid them in the long run. Speaking of aid: If they are smart, they may find records of the remaining Knights of Alerion as well, netting them a chance to surgically remove the best remaining soldiers of the Talingarde resistance. Speaking of resistance - if the PCs take heed of their traitor's court, they may get the necessary information to take down one superbly stealthy leader of the resistance.

But there are also tasks that require the PCs to deal with: Take the problem of the Irean barbarians of the Caer Bryr: These clans may be unified - a free bonus army for the PCs - but only if they manage to exploit a prophecy of the people and kill a primal bandersnatch, the legendary Caothach Ool to show that they are the chosen ones. In the Caer Bryr, the PCs may by the way also revive the noble tradition of unicorn hunting to fill the coffers of their nation... Of course, cracking down on the resistance, razing a village to the ground that openly defies their rule, gaining the service of the Barcan nobles and their griffon knights, redecorating the palace, legalizing prostitution and/or slavery - the latter serving as a prerequisite to legalize bloodsports (and gladiator veterans), rebuilding Balantyne and fortifying and finally conquering the North, rebuilding Daveryn etc. are a lot of interesting things to occupy the PC's time. Finding a way to ensure their army remains happy is yet another issue to handle, as are the battle-nuns and the fact that the duergar are problematic allies at best, prime candidates to be betrayed to the regular dwarves to gain their loyalty as a vassal state.

Allying with the reclusive Yutak, killing an elder kraken plaguing the trade-routes, side-quests in the Agathium, Grumblejack having prophetic dreams, dealing with a duke that could spell trouble, surviving an assassination-attempt by 2 mariliths and their demonic servants, rooting out the last outbreak of the Tears of Achlys, children praying for salvation and an angelic host(a great way to really screw up public relations),marrying a beautiful, wicked lady and make her queen - there is a lot going on. While darkness stirs in the North - a seeping shadow of invulnerable antilife seeps from a cavern where ancient tables lie, guarded by shoggoths: Stopping the all-consuming shadows and claiming the tables may add yet another dread weapon to the PC's arsenal. The Minions the PCs may still have also have up to 23 different tasks waiting for them - and then, after 3 all too short years....she returns.

The Pcs will reap what they have sown, with each of the different decisions resulting in modifications to Belinda's army or their own. And the saviors waste no time - the final stretch of the AP kicks off with 2 angels showing up above the city, preaching hope and seeking to wreck the palace. An aerial battle thus kicks off the final battle for Talingarde's soul -soon to be followed by an assassination attempt by Solomon Tyrath, high inquisitor of Mitra - hopefully they can make Naburus join their cause - and hopefully, they did not make Berithor king. For the ghost of his mother shows up - and he repents. Kills Dessiter. Becomes a paladin again. And delivers a final stand - to die and be claimed by the heavenly host, his contract voided by repentance.
And then, the final battle is upon them. They may even study the battle of the Victor fought in the same locale. And then lead their army into the final battle. Versus the last hope of Talingarde, Princess Belinda, Antharia Regina, the elysian titan God-hammer and a solar of Mitra. And then, there are two ways to end the campaign - win the insanely difficult final fight. Or suffer the fate of villains - abandoned by allies, more Mitran angels join the fray, ensuring the fate of the PCs. And thus, in which way you choose, ends the Way of the Wicked.

The supplemental material of this issue has Jason Bulmahn contribute 6 additional Asmodean spells, 8 magic items to insert into the campaign if you choose to. And finally, the last 3 pages contain a timeline for the whole campaign.

Conclusion:
Editing and formatting are the weak spots of this pdf - much like almost all issues of the AP, several easily avoidable typos, glitches and minor issues mar the AP and show that a second set of eyes editing this would have helped. Layout adheres to FMG's drop-dead gorgeous 2-column full color standard and the book is BEAUTIFUL. Michael Clarke's renditions of key enemies, almost all of them spanning full pages, rank among the best in the whole AP. On a formal level, the scarce bookmarks feel a bit unpleasant, much like in the predecessors - nested bookmarks would especially in the tyrant-section been appropriate. The pdf comes in two versions, one slightly more printer-friendly and, rather cool, the AP comes with an 9-page pdf of player-friendly maps and handouts - awesome!

Oh boy. Usually the editing glitches would mean that I rate this module down. And e.g. a certain archmage's plot-thread has not been addressed. But the sheer amount of loose ends being tied in this module is AWESOME. The Tyrant-sandbox is glorious and something only all too rarely seen. The final battle is brilliant.

This module is epic and ranks among the finest final installments of any AP I've ever read. The power of the foes arrayed, the amount of consequences the PCs face - all these made me grin and want more - and look forward to Throne of Night. Since part 2 of the AP, not a single installment has had me that excited, that euphoric, that delighted by offering something truly different - at levels not usually supported by APs. Cool, deadly and truly a book centering on being villainous, I only wished more space in the overall AP would have been devoted to doing such things. Running Talingarde - for better or for worse for the villains is a sufficiently epic change of pace before a final confrontation of insane difficulty. If I had one complaint regarding the narrative, it would be the magical gizmo-stealth of Belinda. At least offering a chance to take down the solar or the dragon would have been more prudent in my mind - but then again, this is not about being fair. This is about reaping what was sown - and Fire Mountain Games, in spite of the scarce bookmarks and editing glitches, for this stellar module, reaps 5 stars + seal of approval for being innovative, cool and providing a joyous read that will have you cackle with glee - just remember that the fires of hell are waiting to claim you and that failure is not an option in the eyes of the dark lord...

Endzeitgeist out.


The PCs have finally become true masters of evil...but to what end?

5/5

It is said that all evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing. That may be true, but what about when good men (and women…and dragons, celestials, and so many more) do, in fact, do something? Can evil still be triumphant then? That’s the question that has been posed throughout the Way of the Wicked adventure path, from Fire Mountain Games, and the final answer is presented in the sixth and final book in the series, The Wages of Sin.

The Wages of Sin is presented in three files: the main book, a printer-friendly version thereof, and a set of player handouts. The player handouts are, for the most part, maps with the GM-only information removed, though one illustration is there too. The counterparts, with the GM information added, are found in the main book.

The printer-friendly file is the main file down to a “T,” save for turning the page borders into grayscale and removing the page backgrounds. This may sound like a lot, but it still preserves all of the interior illustrations, all in full color. I maintain that this detracts from the “printer-friendly” part of the equation, especially since several of these illustrations take up an entire page (though, to be fair, that does mean you can skip over those pages altogether).

It’s on that note that I do need to talk about the illustrations again. Michael Clarke’s talent is on full display once again, with a large number of full-color illustrations, many of which, as noted, take up an entire page. The artwork here is gorgeous, enough so that I wish that there was a separate file of just the art so that it could be shown to the players without needing to let them see the accompanying text (on the non-full-page illustrations, I mean). Heck, I just wish that there was an artbook of this material for its own sake.

The main file is just over a hundred pages long. While it does allow for copy-and-pasting the text, and there are bookmarks present, said bookmarks are to each of the book’s major sections only; there are no nested bookmarks to go to sub-sections, which is a shame.

The Wages of Sin opens with the usual introduction from the author, which is noteworthy this time because he talks about the issue of how to end the campaign; specifically, he calls into question whether you want to end on a note of evil victorious or evil undone, and discusses, albeit briefly, the pros and cons of each, insofar as what your players would like. I was actually somewhat impressed with this, since it brings up what I think is an interesting distinction in how the campaign ending can be approached – whether from a more personal point of view (e.g. “I don’t want my character to be defeated while on the cusp of total victory!”) or from a more poetic, narrative standpoint (e.g. “and so our PCs’ evil finally catches up to them, and they earn their just deserts.”). It’s an interesting dichotomy to consider.

The adventure background presents, well…the background for the adventure. More specifically, it goes over some of the things that have been happening outside the PCs knowledge to set things into motion, which isn’t unbelievable despite having five books’ worth of material behind them at this point. More specifically, we get the background on what Princess Bellinda (the last, best hope for Talinguarde) has been up to, and the information about the here-to-fore unknown Sixth Knot.

We then move on to the first major section of the book, which takes place shortly after the PCs successfully overthrew their master at end of the previous adventure. Now, the PCs are in charge…or are they? In fact, being in command is more than just having thrown off the shackles of servitude; it means actually taking control of the existing operation, enforcing their will on their comrades in evil, and keeping the late Cardinal Thorn’s plans on track.

Several events in this section focus on just that, as the PCs need to deal with the various factions remaining in the service of Hell, ending the “threat” of the humanoid army marching towards the capital, and then formally assuming control of the nation. Several of the events here revolve around existing NPCs that the PCs have dealt with before, and the author does a fairly good job of noting not only how these scenarios could play out based on what the PCs have done before now, but how they still could depending on what the PCs do.

My major complaint about this section was the sidebar near the end on why Princess Bellinda can’t be discovered and hunted down prematurely by the PCs. It’s not necessarily that she has a mcguffin item that makes her impossible to find, it’s that this is plainly acknowledged by the text, rather than giving her mcguffin stats. While all adventure paths are railroads to some degree, the major draw of this last adventure is that after so long being under the command of another, the PCs are now free to do what they want. This freedom is, for the most part, celebrated in this adventure…except where Bellinda is concerned. The text about her artifact makes it clear that there’s nothing the PCs can do to find her, and so the endgame can’t be tampered with (very much). It strikes me as a bit of a cop-out; at least give the thing game mechanics so that it’s conceivable, if unlikely, that the player-characters could have a chance of overcoming it.

Act two is the real meat of the book, being fully half of its page-count. It’s here that the PCs are at their pinnacle of glory. They are now in command of the nation that once condemned them; this section is given to all of the things that they can do – and that they must do – now that Talinguard is theirs. While various points in the campaign have been fairly open-ended in what the PCs could do, this is the largest the sandbox has ever been in the Way of the Wicked.

For one thing, the PCs are given several years of game time to indulge themselves. Over this, thirty different events are presented. Some of these are things that the PCs can do for themselves (do you want to legalize prostitution? How about the slave trade?), while others are things that happen during the course of their reign (e.g. assassins!). Insightfully, these events are set to take up set blocks of time, making them easy to adjudicate during the PCs’ rule over Talinguarde.

What really makes these events stand out is their scope. While some of these are issues of domestic policy, such as whether or not to erect temples to Asmodeus, others are much more grand. Do the PCs want to send their army to the north and wipe out the remaining humanoids (and other creatures) there, conquering the whole island? What about opening trade with foreign nations? There are many things the PCs can do to reshape the political and social lay of the land as they desire. As a bonus, there are almost two dozen additional actions that are specifically meant for the PCs minions (using the rules first introduced in the second adventure).

Event three is where it all starts to fall apart. Bellinda is back, and depending on how the PCs ran things, the degree to which the domestic populace flocks to her banner can vary wildly. Only a half-dozen events are here, and some of these are fairly low-key events like tallying up the respective sizes of the PCs army versus the Princess’s. Several individuals play out their last scenes, and the stage is pretty well set by the time things are ended here.

The fourth event is the finale to everything, as the two major armies clash. The PCs’ main opponents here are Bellinda and her immediate retinue, set against the backdrop of the battle. The bulk of this section discusses the battlefield itself, and the hefty stat blocks for the good guys, each one taking up about a page.

Somewhat disappointingly, what’s here doesn’t quite seem to tie together as strongly as I would have liked. For example, there’s several paragraphs of discussion given to the nature of the terrain on the battlefield, but the practical context of this (e.g. what happens if the PCs try to march their army through disadvantageous terrain) isn’t discussed. Likewise, the book uses a numerical score as a shorthand for determining the strength of the PCs’ army versus Bellinda’s…but while the results of this score are indicated clearly, it’s only in terms of how the setup looks, and not the actual outcome (e.g. you can read that score X means that your army outnumbers Bellinda’s four to one…but that doesn’t mean that you win).

The outcome appears to be entirely predicated on whether or not the PCs can kill Bellinda and her retinue, the lynchpin of the final battle. Hence, this seems to make the preceding sections somewhat superfluous. Whether the PCs have their army avoid the rough terrain, or whether or not their forces are a match for Bellinda’s army…all seems to come to naught, regardless of the final outcomes. What matters is this one last fight, and as that goes, so does the final battle. It’s a very poor integration of the wider implications for the PCs large-scale tactical knowledge, and the practical ramifications of how they conducted themselves as rulers of the nation.

A single-page epilogue is given next. It’s surprisingly poignant, allowing each player a turn to write their character’s final impact on the campaign, before the GM brings the curtain down. I was slightly surprised at the tone of finality here; I’m much more used to how Paizo gives us an entire section at the end of each of their adventure paths devoted to what you can do to continue the campaign, if you and your players are so inclined. Perhaps I’ve been spoiled by that, but I find the absence of such a section here to be somewhat disappointing. Three or four meaty adventure hooks, and a CR 20+ stat block for some future foe, could have made for some very interesting material for enterprising GMs.

Several new evil spells and magic items appear next, courtesy of Jason Bulmahn. A sidebar addresses the irony of virtually none of these (save for one item) appearing in the adventure itself; of course, that’s somewhat expected, since the PCs are likely to be the one using these. What’s far more interesting, however, is the campaign timeline that’s presented as the last item in the book. This walks us through a chronological reading of the entire campaign, denoting which book the various events occur in, and what the PCs’ levels are, alongside dates and years. This really helps to lay down the feeling that this is a campaign that takes some time, as by the end of it over five years have passed. This chronology was far more interesting than I’d have suspected.

One thing I haven’t noted thus far is that the book does have some errors that crop up periodically, which is irking. For example, I noticed several spelling and grammatical errors throughout the book; not many, but enough. Likewise, some stat blocks had errors in them. While this can’t be helped much when you’re facing such high-level creatures, things like incorrect CRs were a recurring problem.

Of course, these don’t detract from the adventure very much at all. It’s here that wickedness reaches its fullest flower, and your PCs get to enjoy it greatly. They’ve become not only mover and shakers, but at last have reached their full potential as conquerors and tyrants, and they get to enjoy all that comes with it. This is the payoff that they’ve been working towards from the beginning of the campaign, and it’s in spades. If you and your group manage to get this far, you’ll have a great deal of fun reveling in The Wages of Sin.


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kevin_video wrote:
Mirrel the Marvelous wrote:

I have a sneaking suspicion that my party will not be satisfied with the absolute slaughter of all Mitra's servants in Talingarde. From the mutterings coming from the table, they actually want to kill Mitra! (Plus two of them want to become Gods!)

Not sure how I can resolve this without them feeling cheated!

Well, it'll never actually happen, that's for sure. Kind of like the same way that the party will never get to personally see Asmodeus walk the island. Gods don't get personally involved. The absolute best they can hope for is an avatar, at most. If you really want to go for it, I'd suggest having him be an elite solar cleric with six arms. Check out Obah-Blessed. You want to be truly evil, have them off against the True Solar. That'll learn 'em.

As for the characters becoming gods, there's a 3.5 legend that you can use, but it'll likely happen out of game. You'll just need to change up when it happens (3.5 feat progression vs. Pathfinder feat progression).

Mitra and Asmodeus won't walk the earth, that's sure. However, that doesn't mean the PC can't go to the plane were Mitra lives and slay it there.

Slaying Gods is somehting that has happened in D&D before. Sure it's not "easy", but it has been tried, and done, in the past. Some Adventures are based in the goal of slaying Orcus, if I'm not wrong.

I'd suggest that if the PC try to kill Mitra... they should fail. It's a wonderful finish for such campaign: the evil, being nearly all-powerful, and having conquered everything they could dream, got too greedy, and tried for too much, losing everything.

About becoming gods, @mirrel_the_marvelous, if you place your Talingarde in Golarion, there are already ways for mortals to become gods. Iomedae did. Your PC can do too, if you want.


gustavo iglesias wrote:


When the PC pacify the north, if they do, they'll have to face some kind of embodiment of Endless Winter. If they don't, somewhere in the middle of the summer during the Reign of Asmodeus, they'll find that The Winter is Coming (duh!).

I'm open to suggestions about the encounter. I'm thinking about a huge, living sleet storm (like the spell), with several KM of radius, that hinder fly and spellcasting (as per Concentration rules), and in the middle of it, the Endless Winter itself.

Well, why not just reskin the

Spoiler:

Shoggoths and black ice encounter? Replace the deadly black ice with a living sleet storm, as described above -- not as immediately deadly, but it'll fairly quickly kill anyone who isn't a high level character with magical protection. Replace the two shoggoths with immense ice elementals, as per.

Why does it happen? Well, maybe someone was conducting some ritual to restrain it, and the PCs killed that someone. Alternately, someone is desperate to stop the PCS -- especially if they invade the North -- and, in desperation, summons the Winter. Season to taste.

Doug M.

Grand Lodge

gustavo iglesias wrote:

When the PC pacify the north, if they do, they'll have to face some kind of embodiment of Endless Winter. If they don't, somewhere in the middle of the summer during the Reign of Asmodeus, they'll find that The Winter is Coming (duh!).

I'm open to suggestions about the encounter. I'm thinking about a huge, living sleet storm (like the spell), with several KM of radius, that hinder fly and spellcasting (as per Concentration rules), and in the middle of it, the Endless Winter itself. Unless somebody has a better suggestion, it'll be a Colossal Ice Elemental with 32 HD, ability to fly, and Spell Resistance 32, Ice Strike as an At-will spell-like ability.

Depending on when you do it, have them face the abomination Xixecal. Might have to make it a bit easier than the CR 26 that it already is. Wouldn't think it to be too hard to do that. I mean, if Hecatoncheires can be reduced from CR 57 to a mere 24, surely we can do the same for Xixecal.


Gustavo. I already have a plan in place for the two Would-Be-Gods. The Test of Starstone, which they may or may not pass (it'll be the end of the campaign, so I can be a bit vague about that)

I will however make it quite clear to the party that attempting to slay Mitra on his home plane is CERTAIN death, but perhaps allow a heavy DC knowledge Planes AND Arcana to allow a ritual (carefully worded Wish cast in conjunction with a Miracle) that removes all knowledge of Mitra from Talingarde, whether written or in thought. This would not kill Mitra, just ensure that he could not work through any mortal intermediaries.


Good ideas Mirrel. I like both of them.

Grand Lodge

Mirrel the Marvelous wrote:

Gustavo. I already have a plan in place for the two Would-Be-Gods. The Test of Starstone, which they may or may not pass (it'll be the end of the campaign, so I can be a bit vague about that)

I will however make it quite clear to the party that attempting to slay Mitra on his home plane is CERTAIN death, but perhaps allow a heavy DC knowledge Planes AND Arcana to allow a ritual (carefully worded Wish cast in conjunction with a Miracle) that removes all knowledge of Mitra from Talingarde, whether written or in thought. This would not kill Mitra, just ensure that he could not work through any mortal intermediaries.

Those aren't bad at all.

Got one from a friend today. She was inspired by LotR: Return of the King. Have a samsaran white necromancer 20 (Kobold Quarterly #19) show up, and after a very specific ritual gained from the mainland, she brings back some of those who were killed by the villains, and raises them as ghosts. They'd be the first army sent out. Probably the only army needed as well. Also, play up the Ring of Black Fire as "the one ring" just to really have fun with the PCs.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Having read through book six, I have a couple questions/concerns. Would love all thoughts and suggestions.

On the Hadrian Ring:

Spoiler:
If the party doesn't use the kraken to satisfy the Titan requirement, it seems likely this will go off during the final battle. As a consequence, there will be a free-for-all fight with Menoetius between the fights with Brontus and Antharia. At least, that's what I'm envisioning. Any thoughts on this? The ring's description specifically says this outcome will not be apparent to the bearer of the ring, so it seems like a potentially disastrous trap in th middle of an already tough marathon chain of fights.

On the pacing and number of combats in the "Sandbox":

Spoiler:
This is completely based on knowledge of my own players and is absolutely a "YMMV" situation, but I'm afraid my players will be bored with what looks to me like a relative dearth of fights during the sandbox portion. I'm trying to think of opportunities to expand this a bit or (better yet) modules I could plug in. Any thoughts?

Once again, many thanks. Also, just to be clear, I think book six looks awesome -- just doing some very advance planning to adapt it for my particular mix of players.

Congrats to Gary/FMG for finishing his first (and awesome) AP.

Grand Lodge

SnowHeart wrote:

Having read through book six, I have a couple questions/concerns. Would love all thoughts and suggestions.

On the Hadrian Ring:
** spoiler omitted **

On the pacing and number of combats in the "Sandbox":
** spoiler omitted **

Once again, many thanks. Also, just to be clear, I think book six looks awesome -- just doing some very advance planning to adapt it for my particular mix of players.

Regarding the ring - I'd let it happen unscripted. Be a free-for-all. However, if the PCs purposely use spells that will tell them the future, and they can foresee the use of that ring at a later date, I'd let them.

Regarding the sandbox - Mix it up. Have a couple of non-combat scenarios then have a minion see the dream of the blackice, followed by a combat like the Two Queens. Then go back to non-combat scenarios and a couple of minion ones, and have the blackice become a real threat so they have to take that on too. If they're getting bored, throw a random combat into the fold. Then go back to the regular stuff. Keep doing this until everything's done, or time runs out and they're forced into the final battle.

Another option is all those side quests that were never done. Go get the black dragon's treasure. Go find the elven kingdom and meet the banshee there. Lots of stuff they can do.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Reviewed here and on RPGNow.


Alzrius wrote:
Reviewed here and on RPGNow.

As always, thanks for the review!

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

@kevin_video -- Thanks, Kevin. With a free-for-all, how would you handle it?

Spoiler:
As a for example, 25% chance each round he attacks the regime's army, the PCs, Bellinda et al, or the army of the white unicorn? Maybe modified on the fly based on how those groups react to him?

On the sandbox, thanks. To be completely honest, I'm trying to think of a side-adventure/module that could be plugged in here. The problem is there aren't many at such a high level. But tapping those side adventures isn't a bad idea at all. Shouldn't be too hard to put something together.

@all -- Any other thoughts/suggestions would be welcome.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Snowheart,

There is a lot of violence in the sandbox.

Spoiler:

The Caothach Ool, the Two Queens, the Kraken, the Shoggoth...

And those are the even fights...that's not counting hunting down and slaying the last inquisitor in Matharyn, slaughtering the Knights of the Alerion, wiping out the Church of Mitra, Wars in the North...

But I'll admit, in Book Six, I made the design choice to make fights fewer and more epic. It seemed appropriate for such high level characters. However, I hear your plea. If that is not enough violence just off the top of my head...

Spoiler:

You could stat up Carnaya the queen of the ice elves and make that into a direct battle (see event Sixteen).

You could have there be more than one inquisitor in Matharyn. Together they make a direct assassination attempt against the PCs.

Chargammon has a vengeful mate who attacks the PCs blaming them for her beloved's death.

A mad wizard who is also fanatic worshipper of Mitra unleashes a clockwork goliath (CR 19) on Matharyn.

An ancient gold dragon named Hanjartha Five-Fires-Purge-the-Wicked comes to Talingarde hoping to find and aid Antharia Regina. Unfortunately, our villains find him first...

In short, more violence is always an option.

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

Grand Lodge

Excellent. I knew there had to be a gold dragon somewhere at some point.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Fire Mountain Games wrote:

But I'll admit, in Book Six, I made the design choice to make fights fewer and more epic.

Gary, thanks a ton for those suggestions. What you wrote above is essentially the "issue" for my particular group of players. The fewer and more epic fights will be a thrill, but (based on discussions regarding the tempo of our current campaign) I think they may also want to take a break from matters of the realm and just have an opportunity to show off in a little dungeon crawl or something with a series of smaller fights. I don't mean to suggest a flaw or shortcoming in the book; it's just something I think I'll need to adjust for my particular crew. So, the additional suggestions are hugely appreciated. (This is actually a little ironic, too, as I'm in the process of cutting a ton of non-essential dungeon crawls from our current AP, partly to expedite getting to play WotW.)

Grand Lodge

SnowHeart wrote:

@kevin_video -- Thanks, Kevin. With a free-for-all, how would you handle it? ** spoiler omitted **

On the sandbox, thanks. To be completely honest, I'm trying to think of a side-adventure/module that could be plugged in here. The problem is there aren't many at such a high level. But tapping those side adventures isn't a bad idea at all. Shouldn't be too hard to put something together.

@all -- Any other thoughts/suggestions would be welcome.

Just so you know, I didn't miss this, I was just at work so I couldn't probably respond on my tablet.

I'd say that he'd appear, give his quote regarding "kneeling" and the good guys would immediately attack him. The titan especially might know who he is, or what he is, and those two could dedicate themselves to an all-out blood bath. So really, unless your PCs are wanting to get their hands dirty, let them all kill each other, and finish off the winners. That's the proper evil thing to do.

It's highly unlikely that you'll ever find an adventure that's this high a level. Chances are more likely that you'll find something that fits, is low level, and you have to adjust it exponentially to fit the CR/EL of the group. And what's even more likely is it's probably going to be a 3.5 adventure as well. If you're lucky, that is. So far the ones that have worked for me are 2E D&D. Just from looking at what's available.

Ideas would be:
Dungeon 129 for "The Twisted Run"
free adventure "Bad Light" (this one would especially fit after making it safe for ships to travel)
free adventure "Into the Frozen Waste" (possible adventure for when they go North; read the upscale encounter side bar)
free adventure "An Eye For An Eye" works if you want to hire "good assassins".
free adventure "Sheep's Clothing"

As for advancement, the quickest way is to add the Mighty template to everything because adding class levels and stuff. Nothing like a quick +5 CR add-on.

Other than that, just see what bonus adventures are within all 6 books, and maybe homebrew a few. I know I have to.


kevin_video wrote:
SnowHeart wrote:

@kevin_video -- Thanks, Kevin. With a free-for-all, how would you handle it? ** spoiler omitted **

On the sandbox, thanks. To be completely honest, I'm trying to think of a side-adventure/module that could be plugged in here. The problem is there aren't many at such a high level. But tapping those side adventures isn't a bad idea at all. Shouldn't be too hard to put something together.

@all -- Any other thoughts/suggestions would be welcome.

Just so you know, I didn't miss this, I was just at work so I couldn't probably respond on my tablet.

I'd say that he'd appear, give his quote regarding "kneeling" and the good guys would immediately attack him. The titan especially might know who he is, or what he is, and those two could dedicate themselves to an all-out blood bath. So really, unless your PCs are wanting to get their hands dirty, let them all kill each other, and finish off the winners. That's the proper evil thing to do.

Well, if he appears in the final battle, then theTitan will not have anything to do with it. Because

Spoiler:
if he appear in the last battle, that means the good Titan in the last battle is already dead, since he is part of the needed ritual to summon the bad Titan

Grand Lodge

gustavo iglesias wrote:
kevin_video wrote:
SnowHeart wrote:

@kevin_video -- Thanks, Kevin. With a free-for-all, how would you handle it? ** spoiler omitted **

On the sandbox, thanks. To be completely honest, I'm trying to think of a side-adventure/module that could be plugged in here. The problem is there aren't many at such a high level. But tapping those side adventures isn't a bad idea at all. Shouldn't be too hard to put something together.

@all -- Any other thoughts/suggestions would be welcome.

Just so you know, I didn't miss this, I was just at work so I couldn't probably respond on my tablet.

I'd say that he'd appear, give his quote regarding "kneeling" and the good guys would immediately attack him. The titan especially might know who he is, or what he is, and those two could dedicate themselves to an all-out blood bath. So really, unless your PCs are wanting to get their hands dirty, let them all kill each other, and finish off the winners. That's the proper evil thing to do.

Well, if he appears in the final battle, then theTitan will not have anything to do with it. Because

** spoiler omitted **

I was planning on adding a second titan. Maybe his mate, or a brother. If not, then I'd have the titan get attacked by the good guys still as they've now lost someone. I'd even say Antharia and Phaethysa would recognize him, and see him as the biggest threat of them all.

Grand Lodge

Regarding one of Gary's suggestions, if anyone really wants to go hardcore with a mad wizard, check out school of clockwork magic in the obeck Gazetteer. I'm going to go with that. Have him be like a prodigy-like apprentice to the construct wizard from Book 4.

Grand Lodge

But what of a name for the mad clockwork wizard. Can't not have one. I was thinking of maybe Alexander D'Orange (like Alex DeLarge from Clockwork Orange).

Grand Lodge

ANNOUNCEMENT!!!

For those of you who don't have Facebook, or haven't seen it yet, Gary's going to be doing up another Kickstarter relatively soon, and if he gets enough money, not only will it fund Thorn of Night, but also Way of the Wicked BOOK VII. That's right, a seventh book. It'll supposedly contain all of the minion quests, and various things that he couldn't fit in the previous six books.

I'm donating as soon as it kicks in.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
kevin_video wrote:

ANNOUNCEMENT!!!

For those of you who don't have Facebook, or haven't seen it yet, Gary's going to be doing up another Kickstarter relatively soon, and if he gets enough money, not only will it fund Thorn of Night, but also Way of the Wicked BOOK VII. That's right, a seventh book. It'll supposedly contain all of the minion quests, and various things that he couldn't fit in the previous six books.

I'm donating as soon as it kicks in.

I read this, and found myself actually verbalizing "!"


kevin_video wrote:

ANNOUNCEMENT!!!

For those of you who don't have Facebook, or haven't seen it yet, Gary's going to be doing up another Kickstarter relatively soon, and if he gets enough money, not only will it fund Thorn of Night, but also Way of the Wicked BOOK VII. That's right, a seventh book. It'll supposedly contain all of the minion quests, and various things that he couldn't fit in the previous six books.

I'm donating as soon as it kicks in.

He will? Dang! I'll give something, but getting the books proper is a bit of a reach right now for me (though one I gladly make).


Any Suggestions for the Book the PC's find in Book 4 ( i think ) which gives them access to "advanced technology" ( 100 yrs of it, i beleive ).

How would this factor into their might score, and what sort of things should be included in 100 years of technology??

Grand Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Grollub wrote:

Any Suggestions for the Book the PC's find in Book 4 ( i think ) which gives them access to "advanced technology" ( 100 yrs of it, i beleive ).

How would this factor into their might score, and what sort of things should be included in 100 years of technology??

This was something that Gary was going to add in Book 6, but forgot, and was planning on adding later with a web enhancement.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
kevin_video wrote:

ANNOUNCEMENT!!!

For those of you who don't have Facebook, or haven't seen it yet, Gary's going to be doing up another Kickstarter relatively soon, and if he gets enough money, not only will it fund Thorn of Night, but also Way of the Wicked BOOK VII. That's right, a seventh book. It'll supposedly contain all of the minion quests, and various things that he couldn't fit in the previous six books.

I'm donating as soon as it kicks in.

Hm, I can't find anything on Facebook on the Fire Mountain Games page, can you give a link, perhaps?


Grollub wrote:

Any Suggestions for the Book the PC's find in Book 4 ( i think ) which gives them access to "advanced technology" ( 100 yrs of it, i beleive ).

How would this factor into their might score, and what sort of things should be included in 100 years of technology??

I guess the strongest change would be the inclusion of gunpowder and primitive firearms.

Gary also mention a basic steam machibe, but that's much more than 100 years of advance imho.

Grand Lodge

Zaister wrote:
kevin_video wrote:

ANNOUNCEMENT!!!

For those of you who don't have Facebook, or haven't seen it yet, Gary's going to be doing up another Kickstarter relatively soon, and if he gets enough money, not only will it fund Thorn of Night, but also Way of the Wicked BOOK VII. That's right, a seventh book. It'll supposedly contain all of the minion quests, and various things that he couldn't fit in the previous six books.

I'm donating as soon as it kicks in.

Hm, I can't find anything on Facebook on the Fire Mountain Games page, can you give a link, perhaps?

Unfortunately not, no. Any "link" I could give, just gives you the same page everyone else can access on Facebook. Right now it's down and to the right. It's the announcement that has "Yesterday" beside it.

The best I can do is copy and paste the announcement itself.

Throne and Book 7:
February is almost gone. Today officially begins the month-long march towards Throne of Night Book One, which will have an April release date. This is in truth not one adventure but two tangled together -- dwarves and drow. But a better way to think of it is Xs vs Os -- benevolent explorers of the underworld versus brutal overlords dominating their sunless empire. Will you be an X or an O?

Very soon, we'll be running a Throne of Night Kickstarter that will help fund our small company moving forward. Many details about that will follow, but let me tease you with a stretch goal -- Way of the Wicked Book VII. It would include MinionQuest I, II, and III and some other miscellany that I simply didn't have room for. More information to follow...

And by the way, sales of Book VI have been explosive. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Onward, my friends!

Grand Lodge

gustavo iglesias wrote:
Grollub wrote:

Any Suggestions for the Book the PC's find in Book 4 ( i think ) which gives them access to "advanced technology" ( 100 yrs of it, i beleive ).

How would this factor into their might score, and what sort of things should be included in 100 years of technology??

I guess the strongest change would be the inclusion of gunpowder and primitive firearms.

Gary also mention a basic steam machibe, but that's much more than 100 years of advance imho.

Golems and clockwork items were also a possibility.


gustavo iglesias wrote:
Grollub wrote:

Any Suggestions for the Book the PC's find in Book 4 ( i think ) which gives them access to "advanced technology" ( 100 yrs of it, i beleive ).

How would this factor into their might score, and what sort of things should be included in 100 years of technology??

I guess the strongest change would be the inclusion of gunpowder and primitive firearms.

Gary also mention a basic steam machibe, but that's much more than 100 years of advance imho.

Ya, that's why I was asking. 100 years of technology could mean alot to different people. My thought was advanced firearms, cannons, higher grade armor plate, steam tech, etc..

kevin_video wrote:

ANNOUNCEMENT!!!

For those of you who don't have Facebook, or haven't seen it yet, Gary's going to be doing up another Kickstarter relatively soon, and if he gets enough money, not only will it fund Thorn of Night, but also Way of the Wicked BOOK VII. That's right, a seventh book. It'll supposedly contain all of the minion quests, and various things that he couldn't fit in the previous six books.

I'm donating as soon as it kicks in

woo.. ya, I saw that too, can't wait for Minionquest 1, 2, 3, and any addendums to Way of the Wicked. Throne of Night is looking good too.


Grollub wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:
Grollub wrote:

Any Suggestions for the Book the PC's find in Book 4 ( i think ) which gives them access to "advanced technology" ( 100 yrs of it, i beleive ).

How would this factor into their might score, and what sort of things should be included in 100 years of technology??

I guess the strongest change would be the inclusion of gunpowder and primitive firearms.

Gary also mention a basic steam machibe, but that's much more than 100 years of advance imho.

Ya, that's why I was asking. 100 years of technology could mean alot to different people. My thought was advanced firearms, cannons, higher grade armor plate, steam tech, etc..

Well, I'd place Talingarde tecnological level in rougly XIII century, given the examples given to us in the book (for example, "fireworks" arrive to Glastenhall in Book II, with fireworks being known in Europe roughly in ~1200 )

100 years more would place it in XIV or so, which means early unreliable fireweapons.

In real Europe, the technology needed much more than one century between the arrival of the first inmobile gunpowder siege weapons like the bombard, from around 1280 (XIII century), to the use of real mobile cannons able to attack infantry reliably, which happen during second half of XV century. Personal firearms technology, for example, needed a process to evolve from the early handcannons in the XIII century, to the arquebus of late XV century or the musket of late XVI. That's a 300 years evolution for what we commonly think as "gunpowder weapons". Steam machines are a late XVIII century technology (1781).

Of course, it's very possible that the books in the dragon's library gives enough technology for this, or even more (from steam power to electricity you need a very small step). Specially if magic is involved (robots need a lot of technology like electronics, magical clockworks not so much) But it is not what it's suggested in the book, which mentions 100 years forward from Talingarde tech, which is quite dark ages medieval technology.


Here is the excerpt from book 4:

There is information here that could advance technology
in Talingarde a hundred years. Amongst these
texts is the science necessary to invent a microscope, a
crude steam turbine and a cannon.

The second statement seems to indicate more tech then 12th century europe; tho I'm not sure.


A question about Throne of Night... will it incorporate the revised kingdom building rules from Ultimate Campaign? Or use some other system entirely?

Grand Lodge

Since the dragon spent a majority of his time away from the realm, and traveling other worlds/planes/dimensions, it's quite conceivable that what he has would be enough to bring Talingarde up to Golarion standards (gunslingers, etc). There's even the suggestion above that...

Spoiler:
a mad wizard could come after the party in a clockwork giant.
That's going to be pretty advanced. So if you take that, add it to what the dwarf race can do with technology and gunpowder, we might even advance it 300 years. However, I'm thinking Gary was leaning more towards a Steam Punk era.

Grand Lodge

Evil Midnight Lurker wrote:
A question about Throne of Night... will it incorporate the revised kingdom building rules from Ultimate Campaign? Or use some other system entirely?

It'll be some other rules entirely. At least at first. If the book comes out in time for Gary to go over it, and implement it into his later books, then he might.


Google-fu says :

Crude Steam Engine is from the year 1650-1715

Microscope is from the year 1590-1625

Cannon is from the year 1346-1529

I guess this would indicate that the evil empire would be approxiamately equivalent to 1650-ish technology.

With that in mind, the Cannon, and Microscope would be "solid" technologies, Crude Steam Engine as a "new-ish" tech.

Gun Technology comparatively puts Wheel-locks at 1509 AD, and Flint Locks at 1630 AD, with the Colt Revolver at 1835 AD

I would agree with the 13th century for Talingarde.. but the indication from above would seem to be more then 100 years.

Hence my confusion in my earlier posts, and discussion here =D


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Grollub wrote:

Google-fu says :

Crude Steam Engine is from the year 1650-1715

Microscope is from the year 1590-1625

Cannon is from the year 1346-1529

I guess this would indicate that the evil empire would be approxiamately equivalent to 1650-ish technology.

With that in mind, the Cannon, and Microscope would be "solid" technologies, Crude Steam Engine as a "new-ish" tech.

Gun Technology comparatively puts Wheel-locks at 1509 AD, and Flint Locks at 1630 AD, with the Colt Revolver at 1835 AD

I would agree with the 13th century for Talingarde.. but the indication from above would seem to be more then 100 years.

Hence my confusion in my earlier posts, and discussion here =D

Well, the first known steam engines are from Greek period. But what we commonly understand as "steam engines" (or at least, what I think when I hear the term)are the perpetual motion steam engines based on James Watt invention, and that's 1781.

The period from early handcannons to wheel-lock muskets means more than 200 years.
However, the only reason we are limiting the technological advance to 100 years is because of a single sentence in the whole AP. It's perfectly possible that Gary meant to say more than one century.

Myself, I'd make the library give enough advancement for a printing press, a microscope, and maybe some inventions from Leonardo Da Vinci (including a crude turtle-based tank, some gyrocopter) and probably guns.


That's only if you assume a progression identical to the real world. In such a case the Renaissance was as much a development in the way people thought, as much as what technologies arose.

It's quite hard to say what the technological level of a fantasy nation is when a really smart/devout/charismatic person can say a few words and be halfway across the world in the blink of an eye!

On a semi-related note, the Ancient Greeks had plans for a primitive steam Engine that were never properly developed (I believe the Philosopher behind it was named Hero.) What would our history have been like if it had been?


Mirrel the Marvelous wrote:

That's only if you assume a progression identical to the real world. In such a case the Renaissance was as much a development in the way people thought, as much as what technologies arose.

It's quite hard to say what the technological level of a fantasy nation is when a really smart/devout/charismatic person can say a few words and be halfway across the world in the blink of an eye!

On a semi-related note, the Ancient Greeks had plans for a primitive steam Engine that were never properly developed (I believe the Philosopher behind it was named Hero.) What would our history have been like if it had been?

Well, I assume when Gary said "it's about 100 years of advancement" he means 100 years of human advance, using real world as a comparisson. In a fantasy world, 1 year could have sixty months of three hundreds days each, for example, or the time might flow backwards, which would make any comparison impossible :)

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Not sure if anyone will want to use her, but I stated out Carnaya, Queen of the Ice Elves, the level 20 ranger. Took the example from NPC Codex and expanded it.

Carnaya:
Carnaya, Queen of the Ice Elves
CR 19
XP 204,800
Female arctic elf ranger 20
CN Medium humanoid (elf)
Init +7; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +24
DEFENSE
AC 28, touch 19, flat-footed 21 (+6 Dex, +9 armor, +2 deflection, +1 dodge)
hp 175 (20d10+40+20)
Fort +18, Ref +23, Will +11
Defensive Abilities improved evasion; Immune disease (including supernatural), poison; Resist cold 5
Weaknesses light sensitivity
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 elven curve blade +23/+18/+13/+8 (1d10+4/18-20)
Ranged +2 composite longbow +31/+26/+21/+16 (1d8+4/19-20/x3)
Special Attacks favored enemy (animals +2, dragons +4, evil outsiders +4, giants +4, magical beasts +4)
Ranger Spells Prepared (CL 17th; concentration +19)
4th—blessing of the salamander, bow spirit, freedom of movement
3rd—instant enemy, neutralize poison, weapon storm
2nd—arrow eruption, barkskin, bear's endurance, locate weakness, protection from energy, snare
1st—delay poison, gravity bow, longstrider, pass without trace, resist energy
TACTICS
Before Combat Carnaya casts barkskin, bear's endurance, delay poison, freedom of movement, gravity bow, longstrider, and pass without trace.
During Combat Carnaya prefers ranged combat. She uses Deadly Aim with Rapid Shot, hoping to also use Tiring Critical.
With everything cast, Carnaya gains +5 natural armor, AC 33, T 19, FF 26; Con 19 (+4), hp 215; Fort +19; Speed 40 ft.; Acrobatics +26 (+30 when jumping); composite longbow 2d6+4/19-20/x3.
STATISTICS
Str 14 (+2), Dex 24 (+7), Con 15 (+2), lnt 10 (+0), Wis 14 (+2), Cha 10 (+0)
Base Atk +20; CMB +22; CMD 39
Feats Critical Focus, Deadly Aim, Dodge, Endurance, Improved Critical (composite longbow), Improved Precise Shot, Manyshot, Mobility, Point-Blank Master, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Shot on the Run, Spring Attack, Tiring Critical, Weapon Focus (composite longbow)
Skills Acrobatics +26, Climb +10, Handle Animal +10, Knowledge (arcana, local) +12, Knowledge (nature) +15, Perception +24, Ride +11, Stealth +29, Survival +21, Swim +5
Languages Common, Elven
SQ camouflage, desert runner, favored terrain (cold +6, forest +2, mountain +4, plains +2), hide in plain sight, hunter's bond (companions), improved quarry, master hunter, swift tracker, track +10, weapon familiarity, wild empathy +20, woodland stride
Combat Gear (123,000g) +1 dragon-bane arrows (5), +1 giant-bane arrows (5), +1 magical beast-bone arrows (5); potions of displacement (2), potion of fly, potions of haste (2), scroll of commune with nature, wand of cure moderate wounds (45 charges); Other Gear +3 mithral breastplate, +1 elven curve blade, +2 composite longbow (+2 Str) with 60 arrows, belt of incredible dexterity +4, boots of elvenkind, lesser bracers of archery, cloak of resistance +4, laurel of command, periapt of health, efficient quiver, ring of feather falling, ring of protection +2
Desert Runner: Some elves thrive in the deepest deserts, forever roaming across burned and parched lands. Elves with this racial trait receive a +4 racial bonus on Constitution checks and Fortitude saves to avoid fatigue, exhaustion, or ill effects from running, forced marches, starvation, thirst, or hot or cold environments. This racial trait replaces elven magic.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
kevin_video wrote:
The best I can do is copy and paste the announcement itself.

Thanks! I missed that somehow.


I have an odd question here. There are several times during the adventure when PCs might need to question someone but it's very difficult to do so because of the potent wills (and Will) of the person you're trying to intimidate. Like that one fellow trying to put a resistance together.

Isn't it simpler by that point to just kill them, cast create greater undead, and then ask your new minion o' evil to fess up? And heck, afterwards, you can send him out to hunt his former allies down and eat them.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Eric Hinkle wrote:
...

My first question is what type of undead are the PCs turning the victim into? Many undead have little to memory of their lives.

That said... maybe it is easier. I don't think that's necessarily a problem. The PCs are "evil" after all. If they find questioning someone is easier by killing then animating them, let them. But, if you want to make it more difficult, I don't think it would be unreasonable to House Rule that what they're essentially trying to do is extract the same information they'd get from Speak with Dead cast on an unwilling target, thus another Will save. (I'm sure some other GMs will disagree with me on that, which is fine. It's JMO/YMMW.)

PS/Edit: Don't forget the optional rules for torture (book 2, I think?), which (with the right equipment) provide a +5 to the intimidate check. Add in a few "aid another" bonuses to the roll, maybe a spell or three to boost the interrogator's stats, and so on... not so difficult, I think.

Grand Lodge

Eric Hinkle wrote:

I have an odd question here. There are several times during the adventure when PCs might need to question someone but it's very difficult to do so because of the potent wills (and Will) of the person you're trying to intimidate. Like that one fellow trying to put a resistance together.

Isn't it simpler by that point to just kill them, cast create greater undead, and then ask your new minion o' evil to fess up? And heck, afterwards, you can send him out to hunt his former allies down and eat them.

This is what torturing implements are for. Check out Kobold Quarterly 11 and Book of Vile Darkness. When my party tortured Timeon, that's what we used. He cracked pretty easily. Instead of an Intimidate check vs. their Will, you just need to get a single DC. The number is 10 + victim's HD. If successful, then the victim can try a Bluff check vs. Sense Motive to try and lie. And if you're using a torture device, you can make multiple Intimidate checks, and each device gives you a circumstance bonus. Just make sure it's an iron maiden on the severe setting and you'll get a nice little bonus. Even more so if you actually managed to drop them below 0 and cure them up, then do it again (doubles the circumstance bonus). And of course, just to make sure they're telling truth, you do it again. Gotta be sure afterall.

But bringing them back as an undead is a nice way to add insult to injury.


Eric Hinkle wrote:

I have an odd question here. There are several times during the adventure when PCs might need to question someone but it's very difficult to do so because of the potent wills (and Will) of the person you're trying to intimidate. Like that one fellow trying to put a resistance together.

Isn't it simpler by that point to just kill them, cast create greater undead, and then ask your new minion o' evil to fess up? And heck, afterwards, you can send him out to hunt his former allies down and eat them.

Create (Greater) Undead doesn't make someone friendly, let alone your slave. Of course, you could use further magic to make the resulting undead creature friendly, but you could do that without the undead step as well (with Charm Person/Monster or Dominate Person/Monster, e.g.).

Grand Lodge

Jon Brazer Enterprises just made something that I'm going to be adding to the final book as yet another side quest. In Book IV and V, you had the opportunity to defeat Brigit. If you didn't in IV, then you went to her home V. It's a volcano. With a lava pool. She's not there no more.

As a variant on the black ice side mission, I'll have the volcano erupt, and cause the occasional earthquake.

At the bottom of this page, you'll see what's causing the trouble.


Eric Hinkle wrote:

I have an odd question here. There are several times during the adventure when PCs might need to question someone but it's very difficult to do so because of the potent wills (and Will) of the person you're trying to intimidate. Like that one fellow trying to put a resistance together.

Isn't it simpler by that point to just kill them, cast create greater undead, and then ask your new minion o' evil to fess up? And heck, afterwards, you can send him out to hunt his former allies down and eat them.

My PC interrogated some people through Ezra, as it is said in the book that he takes the memories of people he kill (that's how he recognize the PC mission, because of the previous Knot he killed).

However, that Ezra knows things, is not the same that Ezra tell them the truth...


As I am currently running a 6 player game of Way of the Wicked, if the PC's ever get to this stage in the game would it be appropiate to add in an extra foe or two to face in order to further balance the final fight? I am considering taking one of the 20th level NPC's out of the NPC Codex (Either a fighter type [To give the fight more melee threats] or a Bard type to act as buffer (Maybe a pathfinder chronicler whose there to witness the battle but aiding the side of good).

Grand Lodge

High God of Krynn wrote:
As I am currently running a 6 player game of Way of the Wicked, if the PC's ever get to this stage in the game would it be appropiate to add in an extra foe or two to face in order to further balance the final fight? I am considering taking one of the 20th level NPC's out of the NPC Codex (Either a fighter type [To give the fight more melee threats] or a Bard type to act as buffer (Maybe a pathfinder chronicler whose there to witness the battle but aiding the side of good).

No. That'd be unnecessary. If you've got six players, and I do as well, just do Ending #2 and add in the suggested extras from that. That should be plenty.


To High God of Krynn, what I'd do is to mix all the fights together. Add the Titan, the Dragon, the Solar, the 20th level half-dragon Sorcerer, and maybe

Spoiler:

sir Robert, either as a redeemed paladin, or a vengeful ghost paladin
. that should be enough challenge for most parties, unless they are extremely maximized. You have a "fighter" which is a 60' tall Titan, a "cleric" which happen to be an exalted archangel, a high level buffed arcane caster, and a dragon, plus an extra powerfull ally. It's roughly a 25th lvl Challenge Rating. If you need more, I'd add "advanced templates", and several warm bodies (like cavalier bodyguards, 15th level clerics, and a couple of extra angels), but probably you'll get more just by optimizing the NPC and their tactics, that by adding extra NPC.


So...

No standing army, very few divine spellcasters, and almost no arcane spellcasters?

Seems to me like Talingarde was screwed all along.

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