Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Campaign (OGL)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Campaign (OGL)
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Where the dungeon ends, another adventure begins! Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Campaign takes you on a guided tour through the parts of the game that happen between monster attacks and quests for ancient artifacts. As some of the most powerful and prestigious heroes around, do your player characters want to build up a kingdom of their own, or lead an army against a neighboring nation? Perhaps they want to start a business, craft magic items, or embark on a quest that will come to define them. Whether you're looking for help generating a young character or seeking ways to challenge adventurers who've grown bored of fighting monsters one-on-one, this book has everything you need!

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Campaign is a must-have companion volume to the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds on more than 10 years of system development and an open playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into a new era.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Campaign includes:

  • A detailed guide to generating character backstories, including a new system for random character generation and traits and drawbacks to meld your background with your statistics.
  • Story feats that increase in power as you achieve key goals, making quests and crusades more than just flavor!
  • A complete downtime rules system to flesh out those parts of a PC's life that take place between adventures, such as running a business, gaining power and influence in a community, or starting a magical academy.
  • New rules for retraining and switching classes; honor, reputation, and fame; young characters; investment; magic item creation; and other key adventuring topics.
  • Rules for building up a kingdom, including construction and technological advancements, governing your people, and more.
  • Mass combat rules to help you lead clashing armies and conduct epic battles in a fun and efficient manner—without losing sight of the PCs themselves.
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-498-6

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Ultimate Campaign Review

4/5

My first impressions of Ultimate Campaign were pretty positive, and now that I've had time to read through the whole thing, I can honestly say that this is a must-have for any campaign that goes beyond the scope of the dungeon crawl. If you're looking for guidelines and rules for all the things that happen outside the dungeon itself, this book is an incredible buy.

Full review at www.outsydergaming.com.


Ring Side Report-A Review of Ultimate Campaign

4/5

Originally posted at www.throatpunchgames.com, a new idea everyday!

Book- Ultimate Campaign

Publisher-Paizo

Price – ~$40

TL;DR- Tables and Rules Everywhere!-83%

Basics- Ultimate Campaign focuses on the rules around the rest of the Pathfinder RPG. This book is more "meta" then most books. The book starts with a chapter on how to make characters; not how to make stats, but how to build a story into your characters. Next the book gives a chapter on what you can do in your down time with ideas ranging from building businesses to creating organizations. After that is a chapter on different rules systems covering ideas such as bargaining to taxation in your game. The final chapter is how to build a kingdom and mass combat.

Mechanics or “Crunch”-This book is crunch-tastic! If you want rules regarding all the extra stuff in your game, this is it. Want rules for an honor system? It's here. Want to start a kingdom? There is a whole chapter on how to do the rules for it. It covers a lot of ground. Some of these rules are kind of reprints as these rules were covered in different adventure paths, but that's not necessarily bad as the rules have gotten a polish since their last printing. 5/5

Story or “Fluff”-This section might not fit the best here. This book sets out to be a rules book. It's pretty system neutral as you're just running the Pathfinder/3.5 system somewhere and these rules cover the "in between" stuff. You don't need a lot of story. However chapter one is how to build a character. It does an excellent job of describing what stuff you could include in your character. If you're George R.R. Martin, you don't need this. However, I have a friend who loves Pathfinder, but when presented with character generation, he freezes. This chapter gives some good fluff for your characters and suggests traits for you to take for all the fluff. Heck, if you want to completely randomize your PCs, this chapter gives tables and tables of random stuff to make your new PC. Where the fluff is needed, it's done well, but don't expect it throughout the book. 4/5

Execution-This book is the standard Paizo quality. The book is a nice hard cover with well put together pages. The layout lacks a bit. There are pages after pages of tables or rules or columns of text. Nothing brakes up much of what you're reading, so it gets a little boring. It's important rules, if you want them, but they get very dry, very quick. 3.5/5

Final Thoughts-Unlike a base book, this is a one copy at the table max book. This is something you might want to get, skim through, and then give to your GM while telling him which of these rules you want in the game. It's a repeat of many of the rules systems explored in the adventure paths, which isn't bad because the rules do get a little touch up here and there. However, if you want a dungeon crawling game where you find some monsters, kill them, and take gear, this isn't for you. If you want to do some crazy game where you explore a mist filled continent via random hex crawl where you establish a kingdom while maintaining your family's honor, waging a war for the throne, marrying into different family lines, and dealing with the crushing shame of your fathers half fiend lineage, then YES you will need this book. 83%


Excellent product adaptable to other games

4/5

After thumbing through the book I decided to pick it up. I think the systems in the book are really interesting and I'm actually adapting them to my 4e game.

The book is chock full of fluffy stuff but stuff tied with mechanics so as a DM you get an idea of what type of rewards to apply to a player when they have a background or have own a business. The mass combat section is pretty neat as well, and with a little tweaking I can adapt that as well.


Fairly good.

3/5

This is a pretty decent fluff book. However, I wish the price was $29.99 instead. The paper quality used is substantially weaker than previous books. There are useful things to be found within for the GM who is not too busy to come up with himself or herself but nothing is overwhelming in here. Reminds me of the numerous volumes Wotc produced for 4E.


Ultimate Campaign Under Review!

5/5

This is definitely a homerun for Paizo. This is definitely one of their best products they have put out in a while. I actually gave it 4.5 out of 5 stars, but it is still good enough to give it 5 here.

Read my complete review HERE at Skyland Games.


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For the kingdom sheets there are two 90 degree waterways (one is enough), but no three way intersection? Can this get updated or does Paizo have something against 3-ways?


Mul wrote:
I am not sure where you found your 1-8 lots: small town. Population has always been the determining factor for a settlement, small town population of 201-2,000 (pg. 203 PFGMG). 1 district (36 sub lots) would be the the absolute smallest one could honestly imagine for a small town; minimal population (201) and 1 district a small town that had 36 houses (36 sub lots) there would be about, 6 people per house. Best suggestion I can say is base your settlement type off of population and your kingdom off of districts.

That would be better, yes. But with 250 people per lot instead of per district, that's not what the rules say. On the other hand, if one district was the minimum for a small town, it would mean that a Large City would need to have something around 50 districts filled in the same city, which is excessively large for the Kingdom building rules (1800 lots). That seems a better direction to err in, though.

Quote:

On a personal note, I am not a fan of the scale they added for the sub lots, a urban house has a 750 x 750 lot associated to it? City roof jumping just got a lot harder. I am using 100 x 100 sub lots for my scale, which is still huge for a city; about 1/4 acre.

Well, as written, that's a whole group of houses, sufficient to house 250 people (or more) that's occupying that 750x750 lot. And if it adjoins another housing lot, you have even more space. But if you shrink the population, you need to shrink the lot size too.


So i finally got my copy last week, and im a bit disappointed by the rules for child characters. They only really work for NPCs, I thought they were meant for PCs.
But there is no fun to be had with a nerfed statline and only NPC class levels. Even if that were the entire party.


Threeshades wrote:

So i finally got my copy last week, and im a bit disappointed by the rules for child characters. They only really work for NPCs, I thought they were meant for PCs.

But there is no fun to be had with a nerfed statline and only NPC class levels. Even if that were the entire party.

I don't see why you can't houserule it so that they take PC classes, which also is suggested in that section. And this section gave me material to work with for my campaign.

I'm using the guidelines for one of my players who is a dhampir child and an oracle. We have him as emotionally mature as a human of his age (27) but the physical development of a child: Strength -2, Dexterity +2, Constitution -2. I didn't use the Wisdom penalty however.


Threeshades wrote:

So i finally got my copy last week, and im a bit disappointed by the rules for child characters. They only really work for NPCs, I thought they were meant for PCs.

But there is no fun to be had with a nerfed statline and only NPC class levels. Even if that were the entire party.

To be fair, though, being a child IS a huge penalty, especially if you are looking to be a more martially inclined class. Playing a child character is a conscious decision not for power, but for flavor. What I'm glad to see is that the child characters don't have a bonus to Charisma. Never made any sense that a child sorcerer is better than an adult one. But, it does mention the use of actual PC classes as a child. I actually plan on allowing the 0-level character rules from Super Genius Games for children characters.


Hopefully the answer for this isn't staring me blatantly in the face somewhere in the book: What are the rules for multiple characters performing the same activity during downtime?

The rules seem to be written from the perspective of a single character doing something while on downtime, but what if multiple characters decide to build the same building or research the same spell? Do they each contribute a day towards finishing that activity? Can each character spend capital up to the maximum limit allowed by the population of the settlement or is that limit for the whole adventuring party? Seeing as the rules seem to imply that capital can be borrowed from other players, it seems a bit odd that four players would be able to utilize four times as much capital, even though it comes from the same "pool".

Edit: On a related note, the spell research downtime activity states the following.

Ultimate Campaign wrote:
When your days of progress equal the total number of days needed, the spell is completed and added to your spellbook or list of spells known.

I'm interested in the bolded part. If the spell is added directly to your list of spells known, how does that count towards you limit of spells known?

And to expand the original question a bit; If two characters are researching the same spell (assuming that's possible by RAW), do they both add the spell onto their spell lists/spellbook?

Shadow Lodge

I would like to see a freely downloadable pdf of all the forms and the district builder pages so I don't have to buy a copy of the book's pdf just so I can print out the forms. I hate making photocopies out of books. They never turn out well and I don't have a color copier for those items that are color.

I also have to say I think I must be one of the few people who doesn't like the matte paper. The images don't seem to print out as crisp, sharp, or clear, and look less vibrant. For me it is also slightly unpleasant to the touch. I hope this isn't a trend for future books.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Put me in the I really like the matte paper category. So long as the printer adjusts properly for ink density and dot gain, it results in a better looking page as far as I'm concerned.

Also, from what I remember from my graphic design and print buying days, it's a more green solution as well, since glossy paper tends to be clay coated.

Contributor

On the topic of Children, I've personally decided that all Youth characters possess NPC classes unless retrained into PC classes via the retraining rules.

I don't want to kill a great character concept, and I think that its one thing to have ability score penalties for being young, but its quite another think to basically force players to play NPC classes. I actually find it quite ironic; many of the young characters referenced in the section most certainly do not possess NPC class levels; Arya Stark is most certainly a rogue, not an expect, and Hagrid assures us that Harry Potter is a Wizard, not an adept.

Plus how would that work, anyway? You start your career as an adept and retrain to a wizard. What if you knew how to cast cure spells as an adept? Why can't you after graduating to the PC class?


Delthos wrote:
I would like to see a freely downloadable pdf of all the forms and the district builder pages so I don't have to buy a copy of the book's pdf just so I can print out the forms. I hate making photocopies out of books. They never turn out well and I don't have a color copier for those items that are color.

Ta Da


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Alexander Augunas wrote:

I actually find it quite ironic; many of the young characters referenced in the section most certainly do not possess NPC class levels; Arya Stark is most certainly a rogue, not an expect, and Hagrid assures us that Harry Potter is a Wizard, not an adept.

Plus how would that work, anyway? You start your career as an adept and retrain to a wizard. What if you knew how to cast cure spells as an adept? Why can't you after graduating to the PC class?

Yeah, this is one of the only things I don't like about the child rules. I'd really like to play or run a game with an all child party and I'm all fine with only having NPC levels until "adulthood". But the only problem I have is trying to run a Harry Potter Wizard School story. I can actually go with Arya starting as an expert. But Harry Potter is NOT an adept. I wish there was an arcane casting NPC class like the adept. Maybe call it an apprentice or something. If there was a new class like that, I'd be perfectly fine with the rules.

Dark Archive

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pluvia33 wrote:
I wish there was an arcane casting NPC class like the adept. Maybe call it an apprentice or something. If there was a new class like that, I'd be perfectly fine with the rules.

The Eberron Campaign setting has a Magewright NPC arcanist that might fit your needs.

The Game Mechanics 'Temple Quarter' also introduces the idea of both arcane and divine 'adepts,' generally just having separate spell lists and having one cast arcane spells and the other divine spells.

I'd go a step further and use the Eberron notion that divine adepts gain access to a single Domain, and limit the Familiar option to arcane adepts (and have both of those options appear at 2nd level). Perhaps the arcane adept could even have the Arcane Bond option, and have an arcane bonded object instead of a familiar.


pluvia33 wrote:
I wish there was an arcane casting NPC class like the adept. Maybe call it an apprentice or something. If there was a new class like that, I'd be perfectly fine with the rules.

When Ultimate Campaign was announced, I was hoping for 0-level or apprentice level rules like in the 3.0 DMG or the 3.5 DMG 2 (respectively), but no such luck.

Designer, RPG Superstar Judge

pluvia33 wrote:
I'd really like to play or run a game with an all child party and I'm all fine with only having NPC levels until "adulthood". But the only problem I have is trying to run a Harry Potter Wizard School story. I can actually go with Arya starting as an expert. But Harry Potter is NOT an adept.

Feel free to change it in your campaign.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Set wrote:

The Eberron Campaign setting has a Magewright NPC arcanist that might fit your needs.

The Game Mechanics 'Temple Quarter' also introduces the idea of both arcane and divine 'adepts,' generally just having separate spell lists and having one cast arcane spells and the other divine spells.

I'd go a step further and use the Eberron notion that divine adepts gain access to a single Domain, and limit the Familiar option to arcane adepts (and have both of those options appear at 2nd level). Perhaps the arcane adept could even have the Arcane Bond option, and have an arcane bonded object instead of a familiar.

Thanks, I'll have to look into those options, though it'd have been nice if there was a Paizo-official option. I was thinking of just changing the adept's spell list and giving it a bonded object option since channeling though a wand tends to be a big part of the Wizard School concept.

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Feel free to change it in your campaign.

Are you saying that children at a magic school should be adepts? Or maybe experts with magic based skills taken as class skills? Maybe then getting their first wizard levels after they finish their first year of school? I'm just wondering how you think a young magic school student character would progress in a campaign. I hope I don't seem snide. I'm really just curious and want to know where you're coming from. Thank you.


The wierd thing about a child being an adept, is that there's no good way to model them becoming the equivalent of a first level PC over time. What happened to those Adepts spells they used to know, like Cure Light Wounds, that aren't on the Wizard spell list? And keeping the level of Adept just makes them suck, due to the way the class/level system is designed.

Ken


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
kenmckinney wrote:
The wierd thing about a child being an adept, is that there's no good way to model them becoming the equivalent of a first level PC over time. What happened to those Adepts spells they used to know, like Cure Light Wounds, that aren't on the Wizard spell list?

But you could say that about the retraining rules for whole class levels in general. Retrain your only level in just about any class and you're going to get examples like that. Former cleric can no longer cure. Former oracle is no longer cursed. Former barbarian can no longer go into a rage. Former bard can no longer inspire courage. Former fighter can no longer use the same weapons and armor.... I'm not saying it's a bad thing. That's just how retraining works. You no longer specialize in something so you can learn something new.

Designer, RPG Superstar Judge

4 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm just saying: if you don't like it, change it. If you're not required to follow the absolute official rules, everyone at Hogwarts can be multiclassed sorcerer/wizard/summoners at age 13. Have fun!

Contributor

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
I'm just saying: if you don't like it, change it. If you're not required to follow the absolute official rules, everyone at Hogwarts can be multiclassed sorcerer/wizard/summoners at age 13. Have fun!

But Sean! THINK OF HOW UN-OPTIMIZED THAT IS!?!

*faints dramatically*


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
kenmckinney wrote:

The wierd thing about a child being an adept, is that there's no good way to model them becoming the equivalent of a first level PC over time. What happened to those Adepts spells they used to know, like Cure Light Wounds, that aren't on the Wizard spell list? And keeping the level of Adept just makes them suck, due to the way the class/level system is designed.

Ken

Whats wrong a "Hog Warts" archetype for the Adept class that changes the spell list. That would solve the issue easily wouldn't it?


pluvia33 wrote:
But Harry Potter is NOT an adept. I wish there was an arcane casting NPC class like the adept. Maybe call it an apprentice or something. If there was a new class like that, I'd be perfectly fine with the rules.

You should check out the 3rd party rules for Apprentice (Level 0) characters. They should be available here at the Paizo store. They are a smoother transition to Level 1 PC classes than the NPC classes are.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I just wanted to share one positive thing that has come out of Ultimate Campaign: inspiration! The background info on how an Oracle of Bones becomes one -- by being buried alive in a graveyard and your panic turning into comfort -- has inspired one of my 11 year old players who now has a very strong character concept!

I posted his character bio on my RPG class blog if any of you want to see it :D


The Rot Grub wrote:
pluvia33 wrote:
But Harry Potter is NOT an adept. I wish there was an arcane casting NPC class like the adept. Maybe call it an apprentice or something. If there was a new class like that, I'd be perfectly fine with the rules.
You should check out the 3rd party rules for Apprentice (Level 0) characters. They should be available here at the Paizo store. They are a smoother transition to Level 1 PC classes than the NPC classes are.

I actually plan on using Apprentice-Level rules from Super Genius Games with the rules for kids. Only change I made was that I added a spell failure chance to the casting classes to represent their inability to fully control their magic. I feel it will work BUT with only getting half the HP, you'd have to be very VERY careful what they go against. I'd probably keep the enemies humanoids with NPC classes, like warriors.


I really love this book. Honest to the Gods, I do. Unfortunately I noticed one big mistake in the book that has me confused. I was in the Hex Terrain section that details the terrain and then you roll for it and noticed 'Desert' is missing in the rolls. I know I have certain areas that I would like some Deserts in and I don't know just what I should remove number-wise in order to add it in. Any Errata on this book yet?


Odraude wrote:
The Rot Grub wrote:
pluvia33 wrote:
But Harry Potter is NOT an adept. I wish there was an arcane casting NPC class like the adept. Maybe call it an apprentice or something. If there was a new class like that, I'd be perfectly fine with the rules.
You should check out the 3rd party rules for Apprentice (Level 0) characters. They should be available here at the Paizo store. They are a smoother transition to Level 1 PC classes than the NPC classes are.
I actually plan on using Apprentice-Level rules from Super Genius Games with the rules for kids. Only change I made was that I added a spell failure chance to the casting classes to represent their inability to fully control their magic. I feel it will work BUT with only getting half the HP, you'd have to be very VERY careful what they go against. I'd probably keep the enemies humanoids with NPC classes, like warriors.

Or kobolds. that might be a fair fight.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

1 person marked this as a favorite.
hogarth wrote:
pluvia33 wrote:
I wish there was an arcane casting NPC class like the adept. Maybe call it an apprentice or something. If there was a new class like that, I'd be perfectly fine with the rules.
When Ultimate Campaign was announced, I was hoping for 0-level or apprentice level rules like in the 3.0 DMG or the 3.5 DMG 2 (respectively), but no such luck.

Apprentice rules would be cool.

If it's of any interest just on the subject of low power play, even if it has nothing to do with Ultimate Campaign... I am running a campaign right now where the PCs are 1st level NPC classes. When they "gain a level," they will gestalt their NPC class features with the 1st level PC class they take (but will be a 1st level character still, just graduated from "ordinary" to "heroic").

After that they'll level normally in PC classes.

Basically they net some extra class skills (and depending, some skill ranks) that make sense for their past profession, and maybe an improved hit die or some spells. It doesn't add a whole lot of power when they "become" a heroic PC, but allows well for low level play that graduates into "normal" level play pretty well.

Note I did house rule an "Apprentice" NPC class (which is largely similar to the Adept but casts arcane spells and has a spellbook) and I beefed up commoners very slightly (they are proficient in dagger PLUS their choice of club, quarterstaff, sickle, or scythe, and they have their choice of starting play either with some bonus skill ranks or a pet, which is an ordinary animal--chosen IIRC from list of cat, dog, pig, sheep, or mule--with no companion/familiar features, but is trained with one Trick).

So far it's working pretty well. I may repeat the campaign at some point in PBP.

kenmckinney wrote:
The wierd thing about a child being an adept, is that there's no good way to model them becoming the equivalent of a first level PC over time. What happened to those Adepts spells they used to know, like Cure Light Wounds, that aren't on the Wizard spell list? And keeping the level of Adept just makes them suck, due to the way the class/level system is designed.

I would just allow them to add whatever spells they knew as an adept to their personal spell list, even if it is not on the sorcerer/wizard list. There aren't that many spells that differ, and it's conceivable to research an arcane or divine version of a spell that is normally the other. And it's still taking up room in the spell book (or a sorcerer's very limited "spells known" list). Consider it a very slight and not game breaking at all bonus for them having earned their way up to PC-hood the hard way.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

The "Craftspeople" in the organizations section are 4th level characters, while a "Guildmaster" or "Master Smith" managers are third level. Doesn't that seem off? I'm wondering if there is a justification for that, or if it was an oversight? Anyone?


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
TheCharles wrote:
The "Craftspeople" in the organizations section are 4th level characters, while a "Guildmaster" or "Master Smith" managers are third level. Doesn't that seem off? I'm wondering if there is a justification for that, or if it was an oversight? Anyone?

I was thinking about this too. If you hire a manager, shouldn't the manager contribute to the rolls for gaining capital? It seems that they always have ranks in an appropriate skill, and they are in your employ, so shouldn't their skill ranks be added to the roll?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
tyrfing wrote:

Perhaps this has been answered above although I have not seen it.

In the Core Rulebook, magic items which have a purchase price of the Base Value or less have a flat 75% availability, while the rolled items must be more expensive than that. This does make some sense, in that you wouldn't want to roll a bunch of cheap items, because they're already (almost) certainly available.
In Ultimate Campaign however, the Base Value is a cap on the price of items available. This also makes some sort of sense, as otherwise you get the (small) possibility that a thorp of 20 people has a Harp of Charming (7,500 gp) available for sale.
Which is it? Does Base Value mean different things for player-ruled settlements as opposed to ones that the party wanders through during adventures? How do we mesh these two? The Ultimate Campaign book also (p. 212) repeats the "There is a 75% chance that any item of that value or lower can be found for sale in the settlement with little effort." sentence, so I'm not sure why we would bother to generate the other items - is it to say "these items are guaranteed to be for sale and if you want other items, there's a good chance that they will also be available, but nothing above the Base Value"?

The Core Rulebook system is a generic, low-detail system for randomly determining if and what items are available in a settlement the GM hasn't planned out.

The Ultimate Campaign system is a specific, high-detail system for determining what items cannot be found or may be found in a settlement the PCs built or control.

The nature of the settlement determines which system you should use. In other words, if you wander into a neighboring land and go magic item shopping, and the GM hasn't planned out what items are in that settlement, use the Core Rulebook system. If you return home and are doing your kingdom phases and want to see what items pop up in your settlement's available magic item slots, use the Ultimate Campaign system.

I might be missing something here, but this means that no magic item available in a PC-run kingdom will ever have a purchase price over 16k. A PC who wants to buy a more expensive item has to:

1. Commission one (assuming you can find someone capable) and wait.
2. Pop over to Absalom (if you're purchasing 16k+ items I assume you have access to teleport) and check out the lists every once in a while (monthly?).
3. Get the item creation feats (or persuade someone in the party to do so) and do it yourself.

Does this sum things up correctly?

I guess there is an advantage to having the Base Price be a cap - if you don't like the items, you can only buy them yourself, so this at least puts a cap on the amount you have to spend.

Er - I just thought of something. Does the 75% availability rule still apply? Or are the items generated in the slots all the items that are available in that settlement?


TheCharles wrote:
I was thinking about this too. If you hire a manager, shouldn't the manager contribute to the rolls for gaining capital? It seems that they always have ranks in an appropriate skill, and they are in your employ, so shouldn't their skill ranks be added to the roll?

A Manager acts as the player in his place, so does indeed get to make a roll on their own as per the Skilled Work Check, or they can give the bonus of Running a Business or even Promote a Business activity...


TheCharles wrote:
The "Craftspeople" in the organizations section are 4th level characters, while a "Guildmaster" or "Master Smith" managers are third level. Doesn't that seem off? I'm wondering if there is a justification for that, or if it was an oversight? Anyone?

I think the difference is in the actual entries; a Manager is normal a PC class hireling but the Craftsperson is an expert. CR wise, they are the same; a Manager, with PC classes, is a Heroic NPC with the elite stat array so can end with higher skill totals than the Expert of a level higher.

Dark Archive

w.r.t. Kingdom Building, any chance you guys at Paizo could produce a downloadable pdf sheet with just houses and maybe a few mansions in, as these are going to get a lot more use than the other buildings.

Cheers

Richard


Richard, you can use the Free PDF then use the select tool and paste the house into Paint. You can put as many of them in Paint as you desire and then print off the sheet as needed from that image.

- Gauss


Odraude wrote:
Threeshades wrote:

So i finally got my copy last week, and im a bit disappointed by the rules for child characters. They only really work for NPCs, I thought they were meant for PCs.

But there is no fun to be had with a nerfed statline and only NPC class levels. Even if that were the entire party.
To be fair, though, being a child IS a huge penalty, especially if you are looking to be a more martially inclined class. Playing a child character is a conscious decision not for power, but for flavor. What I'm glad to see is that the child characters don't have a bonus to Charisma. Never made any sense that a child sorcerer is better than an adult one. But, it does mention the use of actual PC classes as a child. I actually plan on allowing the 0-level character rules from Super Genius Games for children characters.

I missed the mention of using PC classes. But then, if I'm going to houserule it, i wouldn't really have needed the rules in the first place.

But yea the lower abilities make sense to me, i just found that with npc classes they just aren't any fun to play because they get nothing special.

Did i see this right, a child character remains the same size category as an adult?

I might add the young creature template for really young child NPCs (5 to 7 years for humans)

Anyway with this i finally have a means of statting out Alice in my personal try at an Alice in wonderland campagin.


Threeshades wrote:
Odraude wrote:
Threeshades wrote:

So i finally got my copy last week, and im a bit disappointed by the rules for child characters. They only really work for NPCs, I thought they were meant for PCs.

But there is no fun to be had with a nerfed statline and only NPC class levels. Even if that were the entire party.
To be fair, though, being a child IS a huge penalty, especially if you are looking to be a more martially inclined class. Playing a child character is a conscious decision not for power, but for flavor. What I'm glad to see is that the child characters don't have a bonus to Charisma. Never made any sense that a child sorcerer is better than an adult one. But, it does mention the use of actual PC classes as a child. I actually plan on allowing the 0-level character rules from Super Genius Games for children characters.

I missed the mention of using PC classes. But then, if I'm going to houserule it, i wouldn't really have needed the rules in the first place.

But yea the lower abilities make sense to me, i just found that with npc classes they just aren't any fun to play because they get nothing special.

Did i see this right, a child character remains the same size category as an adult?

I might add the young creature template for really young child NPCs (5 to 7 years for humans)

Anyway with this i finally have a means of statting out Alice in my personal try at an Alice in wonderland campagin.

Yeah, at first I was curious why the kids weren't Small, but when I asked my pediatrician friend, she said that most kids that age can outgrow most halflings. So it makes since.

As for the PC classes, it's not a house rule when it says you can in the book ;)

Dark Archive

Gauss wrote:

Richard, you can use the Free PDF then use the select tool and paste the house into Paint. You can put as many of them in Paint as you desire and then print off the sheet as needed from that image.

- Gauss

I tried that and it messes up the scale.

I tried pasting into powerpoint and it messes up the scale even more!

There's probably an IT answer to this (do you know?), though I would suggest that having it done in a PDF might save some hassle.

Richard


Threeshades wrote:

Did i see this right, a child character remains the same size category as an adult?

I might add the young creature template for really young child NPCs (5 to 7 years for humans)

But why would a 5 year old march into battle?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Yora wrote:
Threeshades wrote:

Did i see this right, a child character remains the same size category as an adult?

I might add the young creature template for really young child NPCs (5 to 7 years for humans)

But why would a 5 year old march into battle?

For honor, glory and all the cookies you could eat!


Richard, it shouldn't mess up the scale at all.

Here is what I would do:

1) Open PDF and go to the desired page.
2) Right click and and then left click on 'Select Tool'
3) Click on the building you want to copy. It should highlight.
4) Right click and select 'copy'
5) Open up the Windows Paint program (the program that comes with Windows).
6) Click on the icon immediately left of 'Home'.
7) Click on Properties
8) Click on 'Inches'
9) Set the Width to 8.5 and the Height to 11 (assuming 8.5 by 11 paper) and click ok.
10) Paste the image as needed. In Paint when you paste an image it will be in the top left corner of the visible area. You can drag it to where it needs to go. Then repeat until you have them all placed.
Note: stay ~0.25 inches from the top, sides, and bottom borders. You can use the ruler to see where that is. Some printers dont like printing too close to the edge.
11) Save the file. I suggest a PNG file.

It should take 3-5 minutes to produce a page full of Houses.

- Gauss


Yora wrote:
Threeshades wrote:

Did i see this right, a child character remains the same size category as an adult?

I might add the young creature template for really young child NPCs (5 to 7 years for humans)

But why would a 5 year old march into battle?

Perhaps battle was thrust upon the child?

The Exchange

Huh. I wasn't expecting this many posts. Oh well!

I'm going to try to find the answer myself looking through the posts, but maybe someone else will have an answer for me.

In the kingdom building section it mentions building armies in one of the kingdom phases, mentioning details for it in the mass combat section. However, I can't seem to find the rules for making/starting an army in there, let alone using something like build points to do so.

I'm currently running Kingmaker and figured the group would like the ability to build armies.

The Exchange

Not seeing it yet, but i did notice something I found humorous.

Why do people try so hard to twist the RaR to their whim rather than altering the rules for a custom game.

Things like Harry Potter you can't use the rules as written. The characters would be all over the place class wise. Maybe try making a custom class with features pulled from alchemist, sorcerer, wizard, and summoner? Just don't harp on the developers when the rules designed for their world setting don't perfectly fit your favorite setting. That's what rule zero is for. :)


The Sinister Chris wrote:

Huh. I wasn't expecting this many posts. Oh well!

I'm going to try to find the answer myself looking through the posts, but maybe someone else will have an answer for me.

In the kingdom building section it mentions building armies in one of the kingdom phases, mentioning details for it in the mass combat section. However, I can't seem to find the rules for making/starting an army in there, let alone using something like build points to do so.

I'm currently running Kingmaker and figured the group would like the ability to build armies.

Kingmaker 5 pp. 55,56 and UCam 235-236. Basically, you calculate the unit's stats then start paying it's Consumption and it's yours.

Dark Archive

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Ultimate Campaign is my favorite book that Paizo has put out to date. Thank you for giving me the rules I didn't know I needed, but was already somewhat using! :D


Pathfinder Card Game, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

Great book.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I love this book. Feel free to do more like this.


tyrfing wrote:


I might be missing something here, but this means that no magic item available in a PC-run kingdom will ever have a purchase price over 16k. A PC who wants to buy a more expensive item has to:

1. Commission one (assuming you can find someone capable) and wait.
2. Pop over to Absalom (if you're purchasing 16k+ items I assume you have access to teleport) and check out the lists every once in a while (monthly?).
3. Get the item creation feats (or persuade someone in the party to do so) and do it yourself.

Does this sum things up correctly?

I guess there is an advantage to having the Base Price be a cap - if you don't like the items, you can only buy them yourself, so this at least puts a cap on the amount you have to spend.

Er - I just thought of something. Does the 75% availability rule still apply? Or are the items generated in the slots all the items that are available in that settlement?

That is how I read it. It is presented the same way in the GMG (204-205). In my experience, this purchasing limit is mostly just ignored for big cities. If you wanted to go beyond the rules, without changing the rules, you could say that things above the purchasing limit have less than a 75% or being immediately available on the market. Perhaps dividing 75% by the factor that the item is above the purchasing limit. For example: a specific 48,000 gold item you may be looking for, only has a 25% of being available because 48,000 = 3 x 16,000 (the base value), so then 75% / 3 = 25%. Just an idea.


Perhaps I missed something on my read through of the kingdom building section, in which case perhaps someone could point out the part I missed, but it looks to me like edicts, leadership bonuses, penalties for embezzling, and unrest from lot destruction are all independent of the kingdoms's size. Therefore increasing the tax rate on a large kingdom increases economy (and therefore taxes collected) the same as increasing the tax rate on a small kingdom. As a nation grows larger the competence of its rules becomes insignificant because they only provide flat bonuses, which are dwarfed compared to bonuses from many large cities. A wealthy corrupt nation will be just as upset with its leaders taking money from the treasury for personal gain as a poor low-corruption nation. And if the destruction of 1 lot gives a nation 1 unrest then, the complete destruction of a district will bring 36 unrest, putting any nation above the 20 unrest limit before anarchy and disabling the entire nation. So to conquer any nation, no matter how large, you would just need to destroy one district of one city and then easily sweep up the rest of the disabled country. This also would mean that a siege would be pointless compared to destroying a few outlining villages.

If I missed something important, it would be great if someone could point out what I missed. Otherwise it seems to me that many of these bonuses and penalties should affect kingdoms as rates or percents (like treaties and alliances) rather than flat values. I also think that the unrest penalties are unrealistically harsh since many nations have had a single city destroyed in the past by invaders without the entire nation falling into anarchy. Perhaps limiting unrest from a single event, and/or raising the unrest cap proportionally to the nation size would feel more realistic to me.

Otherwise I really like the book, especially chapter two on down time activities.


I guess I'm focusing on the exactly what items should be available because I'm currently running Thornkeep. It's a Small Town (Base Value 1400gp, Purchase Limit 7500gp) and the party is currently 5th level so they're starting to run up against the limits in terms of what items they can purchase. If they were near a Metropolis this would not matter as much.


Two things.

1: "Dance Hall" will always (ALWAYS) have 'air quotes' around it.
2: Plenty of awesomeness otherwise, with enough room for a 3PP to do things on top.

All in all, pretty damned spiffy...but damnit, it's still a brothel to me!

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