Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Campaign (OGL)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Campaign (OGL)
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Where the dungeon ends, another adventure begins! Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Campaign takes you on a guided tour through the parts of the game that happen between monster attacks and quests for ancient artifacts. As some of the most powerful and prestigious heroes around, do your player characters want to build up a kingdom of their own, or lead an army against a neighboring nation? Perhaps they want to start a business, craft magic items, or embark on a quest that will come to define them. Whether you're looking for help generating a young character or seeking ways to challenge adventurers who've grown bored of fighting monsters one-on-one, this book has everything you need!

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Campaign is a must-have companion volume to the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds on more than 10 years of system development and an open playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into a new era.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Campaign includes:

  • A detailed guide to generating character backstories, including a new system for random character generation and traits and drawbacks to meld your background with your statistics.
  • Story feats that increase in power as you achieve key goals, making quests and crusades more than just flavor!
  • A complete downtime rules system to flesh out those parts of a PC's life that take place between adventures, such as running a business, gaining power and influence in a community, or starting a magical academy.
  • New rules for retraining and switching classes; honor, reputation, and fame; young characters; investment; magic item creation; and other key adventuring topics.
  • Rules for building up a kingdom, including construction and technological advancements, governing your people, and more.
  • Mass combat rules to help you lead clashing armies and conduct epic battles in a fun and efficient manner—without losing sight of the PCs themselves.
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-498-6

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Ultimate Campaign Review

4/5

My first impressions of Ultimate Campaign were pretty positive, and now that I've had time to read through the whole thing, I can honestly say that this is a must-have for any campaign that goes beyond the scope of the dungeon crawl. If you're looking for guidelines and rules for all the things that happen outside the dungeon itself, this book is an incredible buy.

Full review at www.outsydergaming.com.


Ring Side Report-A Review of Ultimate Campaign

4/5

Originally posted at www.throatpunchgames.com, a new idea everyday!

Book- Ultimate Campaign

Publisher-Paizo

Price – ~$40

TL;DR- Tables and Rules Everywhere!-83%

Basics- Ultimate Campaign focuses on the rules around the rest of the Pathfinder RPG. This book is more "meta" then most books. The book starts with a chapter on how to make characters; not how to make stats, but how to build a story into your characters. Next the book gives a chapter on what you can do in your down time with ideas ranging from building businesses to creating organizations. After that is a chapter on different rules systems covering ideas such as bargaining to taxation in your game. The final chapter is how to build a kingdom and mass combat.

Mechanics or “Crunch”-This book is crunch-tastic! If you want rules regarding all the extra stuff in your game, this is it. Want rules for an honor system? It's here. Want to start a kingdom? There is a whole chapter on how to do the rules for it. It covers a lot of ground. Some of these rules are kind of reprints as these rules were covered in different adventure paths, but that's not necessarily bad as the rules have gotten a polish since their last printing. 5/5

Story or “Fluff”-This section might not fit the best here. This book sets out to be a rules book. It's pretty system neutral as you're just running the Pathfinder/3.5 system somewhere and these rules cover the "in between" stuff. You don't need a lot of story. However chapter one is how to build a character. It does an excellent job of describing what stuff you could include in your character. If you're George R.R. Martin, you don't need this. However, I have a friend who loves Pathfinder, but when presented with character generation, he freezes. This chapter gives some good fluff for your characters and suggests traits for you to take for all the fluff. Heck, if you want to completely randomize your PCs, this chapter gives tables and tables of random stuff to make your new PC. Where the fluff is needed, it's done well, but don't expect it throughout the book. 4/5

Execution-This book is the standard Paizo quality. The book is a nice hard cover with well put together pages. The layout lacks a bit. There are pages after pages of tables or rules or columns of text. Nothing brakes up much of what you're reading, so it gets a little boring. It's important rules, if you want them, but they get very dry, very quick. 3.5/5

Final Thoughts-Unlike a base book, this is a one copy at the table max book. This is something you might want to get, skim through, and then give to your GM while telling him which of these rules you want in the game. It's a repeat of many of the rules systems explored in the adventure paths, which isn't bad because the rules do get a little touch up here and there. However, if you want a dungeon crawling game where you find some monsters, kill them, and take gear, this isn't for you. If you want to do some crazy game where you explore a mist filled continent via random hex crawl where you establish a kingdom while maintaining your family's honor, waging a war for the throne, marrying into different family lines, and dealing with the crushing shame of your fathers half fiend lineage, then YES you will need this book. 83%


Excellent product adaptable to other games

4/5

After thumbing through the book I decided to pick it up. I think the systems in the book are really interesting and I'm actually adapting them to my 4e game.

The book is chock full of fluffy stuff but stuff tied with mechanics so as a DM you get an idea of what type of rewards to apply to a player when they have a background or have own a business. The mass combat section is pretty neat as well, and with a little tweaking I can adapt that as well.


Fairly good.

3/5

This is a pretty decent fluff book. However, I wish the price was $29.99 instead. The paper quality used is substantially weaker than previous books. There are useful things to be found within for the GM who is not too busy to come up with himself or herself but nothing is overwhelming in here. Reminds me of the numerous volumes Wotc produced for 4E.


Ultimate Campaign Under Review!

5/5

This is definitely a homerun for Paizo. This is definitely one of their best products they have put out in a while. I actually gave it 4.5 out of 5 stars, but it is still good enough to give it 5 here.

Read my complete review HERE at Skyland Games.


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OK, I seldom write on this board...actually I am not sure that I have ever written on this board, but I felt like chiming in. Overall the book is above average. There were bits such as backgrounds and story feats which I thought were good and then there were sections that I thought were less than good.

On the topic at hand; item creation, it was mostly advice that I am going to ignore because it doesn't make the game any better or interesting. No upgrading magic items, magic items are not computers or cars. You don't upgrade a magic sword, you reforge it. I am probably not going to ignore the WPL as balance is important, but on the magic creation side there appears to me to already be a control mechanism. And that was the last part of the magic creation section...talismans. I don't care for the term, but I have been playing with the idea on my own when considering magic item creation. This is a huge control element. You want to craft 10 frost blades go ahead. Just remember that you need to capture and store the essence of 10 ice elementals. I haven't decided to what extent to employ this idea, but it limits magic item creation while creating gaming opportunities.

The other element that was less promising was the downtime section...at least for me. Admittedly, this is most likely because I approach adventures as movies not TV serials. Quick explanation, Indiana Jones actually spends most of his time teaching and going on boring digs; every now and then he goes on an exciting adventure. Maybe a little bit more than every now and then, but you get the point. I think that I would have liked a little sidebar in the downtime section recognizing that a day-by-day downtime system can be a little tedious for some GMs and players, so here is a weekly or monthly option for doing the same thing.

Finally, Mike Tyson at his physical prime as an unskilled worker would get consistently smoked by unskilled day laborer if working in the fields, or a construction, or anything else for that matter. So why would an unskilled fighter get 4 sp more a day? Just a question.

I am still considering the 'character development' section and kingdom creation.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If you want to come up with an ingame universe reason for the arbitrary limit, reinstate the old XP Cost system, just divorce the number of "Craft Points" from XP.

The in-book example says:

1) WBL for 8th Level is 33,000gp
2) Allow 8,250gp of crafted stuff.
3) Convert that 8,250 to the Craft Pool (8,250/25 = 330)
4) It would take a tiny bit of math but just do that for every single level to determine how Craft Pool sizes for characters coming into the campaign at a higher then normal level and do some subtraction to determine how much a character gets when the level up.
5) Whenever the character crafts a magical item, determine the Craft Point cost of the item (Item's Creation Cost/25 [In the case of Arms, Armor, and Constructs, do not count the cost of the Masterwork Weapon, Armor, or the cost to create the constructs' body]) and subtract it from the Craft Pool.
6)If you want an in-universe reason to explain how your mighty wizard NPCs made such magnificent towers, say that there are powerful items that can refill a casters Craft Pool.

On a sidenote, with the downtime system bringing back XP costs in general is possible if you want to if you allow characters to use the "Earn XP" action.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Christopher Van Horn wrote:
And the adopted sibling race table works so well as an advanced reincarnation table. Even if it's not intended it adds almost all the options form the race guide to a table for us all!

And this comment gave me the idea of someone who adventures simply to get enough cash together to pay for a permanent polymorph or a reincarnation spell so they can become the same species as their adopted family.

Just got the PDF for this one and it looks great. I especially like the section on new edicts in the Kingdom Building chapter along with the other little tidbits there.


Does the mass combat system seem like it will be less swingy than the kingmaker one?

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

Bobson wrote:
Jason Nelson wrote:
P.S. The deletion of the asterisk from the Farm is not official errata, though; it's there in the final text, so if you're playing RAW then by all means use it. If you're interested in RAI, I intended for it not to be starred. Typos happen. :(

Typos happen, but that's a pretty major one. On the order of adding a "'t" to something like "She can't cast any spell she knows without preparing it ahead of time." (From sorcerer spellcasting). It completely changes the nature of how the rule is used.

I can only assume it was intended. It's not an unreasonable change, given that farms already behaved differently from mines/quarries/sawmills (variable cost, spreading irrigation, -2 Consumption instead of +1 BP and +1 stat), but official clarification one way or the other would be nice.

All true. Also, I just checked my turnover, and there was no typo; farms did not have the asterisk there. So at some point during development, Sean decided to add it, so that is the official Paizo rule. That's life in the world of freelance. :)

Bobson wrote:

While I'm in that section, how do you reconcile page 212?

Population wrote:
A settlement’s population is approximately equal to the number of completed lots within its districts × 250.
Table 4-5: Settlement Size and Base Value wrote:

Population | Settlement Size

Fewer than 21 | Thorp
21 - 60 | Hamlet
61 - 200| Village
201 - 2000 | Small town
....
Does building a single building in a new settlement automatically qualify it as a small town, with one major business? What if that first building is a house? Does that differ from if it was a shrine or smithy?

Officially, all hexes are the same and all settlements are the same and all lots in a settlement are the same. Population is not a relevant stat in the published rules and exists purely as a bit of flavor text.

If you are interested in a more robust system for integrating population with your kingdom-building rules... stay tuned. :)


Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber
DeathQuaker wrote:

Oooooh, matte paper. I love it.

So I get excited by strange things.

Anyway, book is even prettier in person. Can't wait to get started using it!

You're not alone.

Although I guess in my case it's more of a dislike of glossy paper.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Jason Nelson wrote:

Bobson wrote:

While I'm in that section, how do you reconcile page 212?

Population wrote:
A settlement’s population is approximately equal to the number of completed lots within its districts × 250.
Table 4-5: Settlement Size and Base Value wrote:

Population | Settlement Size

Fewer than 21 | Thorp
21 - 60 | Hamlet
61 - 200| Village
201 - 2000 | Small town
....
Does building a single building in a new settlement automatically qualify it as a small town, with one major business? What if that first building is a house? Does that differ from if it was a shrine or smithy?

Officially, all hexes are the same and all settlements are the same and all lots in a settlement are the same. Population is not a relevant stat in the published rules and exists purely as a bit of flavor text.

If you are interested in a more robust system for integrating population with your kingdom-building rules... stay tuned. :)

In the original Kingmaker rules, it was irrelevant, but the new rules explicitly use that table to cap the Market Value of a settlement. So they're now somewhat connected.

Definitely looking forward to whatever's coming, though. In my own game, I resized each square to be 25 people, which means 8 squares to a small town, which just feels better...


Looking at the Ultimate Campaign, pretty good book. Then I got to table 3-1 on page 137 and thought.... Hmmmmmmm.... THATS MY IDEA. I have run my own Pathfinder Campaigns since the game launched, and have my own character sheet that has an "Alignment Compass" at the top identical to this. Not really trying to complain, but someone at Paizo should send me a thank you card or something. You can see my sheet here, and the publish date! The sheets actually been around for years, just uploaded to my site in Feb. as I got a new website.

http://draconspire.com/pathfinder-rpg/fillable-sheets/37-draconspire-charac ter-sheet


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
kenmckinney wrote:
I especially dislike the idea that the wizard is obligated by virtue of having his crafting feat to provide services to the group, paid for out of his own treasure share. I hope this isn't really what the book says, and that I've misunderstood this part.
That's not what it says at all.

Um, Sean?

If you are creating items for other characters in the party, the increased wealth for the other characters should come out of your increased allotment. Not only does this prevent you from skewing the wealth by level for everyone in the party, but it encourages other characters to learn item creation feats.

Unless you meant "the wizard doesn't have to create items for the other members of the party", the article says very explicitly that any additional wealth generated by crafting for other party members comes out of your own share.


Jason Nelson wrote:
If you are interested in a more robust system for integrating population with your kingdom-building rules... stay tuned. :)

I KNEW IT


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
JCServant wrote:
But your counterpoint doesn't explain why a party can't do things like take a year to perform in public and earn a few thousand gold (putting them above the WPL), inherit items/gold, start a business, sell a ship they got when they killed pirates, or do any number of things that would earn them more money than WPL allows. Making money by magic items is only one of a myriad of logical options that players can come up with that puts them well over WPL. It's always been up to the GM to either come up with in game reasons why they cannot, outright stop it (or make changes to rules such as lowering the gold value) with no explanation other than to cite game balance or allow it and hope it doesn't break the game. The direction that Ultimate Combat gives is only a guidelines. It's up to the GM to provide the support or whatnot. If you feel that too much wealth isn't an issue, then feel free to ignore it. If your GM suddenly has hordes of monsters attacking your town after you've created X GP in magic items, you'll have a good reason in the back of your mind what might have motivated him to do so :P

First off, as someone pointed out above, WBL is not only a guideline, Sean himself said so in the past. But everytime someone says it is, it reminds me of the awesome first Pirates of the Caribbean movie, so go on. ^^

Secondly, the vast majority of WBL increases through downtime take place on a much longer timescale than crafting magic items ( which comes out to a 500 GP per day profit, or even 1000 GP, depending on GM interpretation of accelerated crafting ). Aside from the not very often happening extreme example of selling a ship, accumulating the amounts of money to seriously skew WBL outside of magic item crafting gives the GM plenty of opportunity to allow for long downtime periods.

That WBL is a problem is an inherent part of the current magic item crafting system anyway. The new rules in this book try to fix that, which I applaud. Very much. But my problem remains ( which is why your entire point is a tangent to my initial complaint ), that it does so in a way which leaves GM's who want verisimilitude in their campaigns completely hanging. It just names a number after which WBL increases should not happen anymore and puts no context at all on how the existing rules should handle this situation, aside from a very heavy-handed GM fiat solution. What this article would have needed is

a.) some lore support, in the vein of to how "magical encumbrance" allows the crafter to only spend so much of his inherent life-force on magic item creation ( only as an example of a solution ).

and

b.) some rules support, to explain why and at which point it is impossible for the crafter to build more magic items over the ones he already built.

And, yes, individual GM's can do this on their own, but what exactly is an official rules book for, if not to provide us with the necessary tools to make an immersive game for our players?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
To be fair, I could see the point of having a discussion about your topic elsewhere in Ultimate Campaign, but obviously that didn't happen. And honestly, I think your topic and the VOP/gearless topic are related... and are probably better discussed in a book whose purpose is to analyze, discuss, and advise about campaigns that greatly skew from the default expectations of a Pathfinder campaign—wealth by level, availability of magic items, divorcing PC reliance on magic items, preponderance of non-human intelligent monsters in the campaign, spreading out leveling over a longer chronological period, and so on.

I really hope that I detect here a hint about an upcoming book. Ultimate Campaign II next year? :)


All of the items being crafted? Who is buying them?


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I just want to say, I picked up Ultimate Campaign, and my mind is blown. There is just... so much packed into this book I don't even know where to begin.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Alan_Beven wrote:
All of the items being crafted? Who is buying them?

Assuming you are talking to me, what I mean is that the items crafted are for party use and therefore help break WBL at a very accelerated pace. Selling those items on the market is not supposed to be profitable, as is well explained in this book.

Shadow Lodge RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

1 person marked this as a favorite.
magnuskn wrote:
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
kenmckinney wrote:
I especially dislike the idea that the wizard is obligated by virtue of having his crafting feat to provide services to the group, paid for out of his own treasure share. I hope this isn't really what the book says, and that I've misunderstood this part.
That's not what it says at all.

Um, Sean?

If you are creating items for other characters in the party, the increased wealth for the other characters should come out of your increased allotment. Not only does this prevent you from skewing the wealth by level for everyone in the party, but it encourages other characters to learn item creation feats.

Unless you meant "the wizard doesn't have to create items for the other members of the party", the article says very explicitly that any additional wealth generated by crafting for other party members comes out of your own share.

But the wizard isn't giving up any of his actual treasure to craft things for the rest of the party (which seemed to be kenmckinney's concern), he's just giving up some of his capacity to craft things. The PC who's getting the item is still the one who pays for that item.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

How much clearer can "The increased wealth for the other characters should come out of YOUR increased allotment" be? It is your increased wealth which you are supposed to give up. Not for the crafting components, but for the increased WBL allotment which you could have spent on crafting your own stuff.

Shadow Lodge RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

1 person marked this as a favorite.
magnuskn wrote:
How much clearer can "The increased wealth for the other characters should come out of YOUR increased allotment" be? It is your increased wealth which you are supposed to give up. Not for the crafting components, but for the increased WBL allotment which you could have spent on crafting your own stuff.

You're giving up your potential income from crafting, but you're not giving up your actual share of the treasure.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding kenmckinney's concern, but it seemed to me that he was under the impression that the wizard would have to spend the actual money he'd already earned in order to craft things for other players.

I.e, you and I kill an ogre, and we sell it's ogre-pants for 2,000 gp. Split two ways, that gives us 1,000 gp each. If I want to craft some equipment for you, I would have to spend some of my 1,000 gp to do it (say, 250 gp), leaving me with 750 gp and you with 1,000 gp and equipment worth another 500 gp.

That is most definitely not the case. Maybe I misunderstood kenmckinney, though.


Jason Nelson, thanks for the awesome Kingdom rules. :)

I have a couple of confirmation type questions:

1) Are roads still a prerequisite to building a Farm? (They were in Kingmaker).

2) There are still references to Brothel, am I correct that those references should now be 'Dance Hall'?

3) How long does the Royal Enforcer's Loyalty decrease (on a failed Loyalty check) last?
Note: I'm guessing 1 turn (month).

4) In the Leadership Role Skills on page 232 there is an Ambassador role listed. No such role is listed in the Leadership Roles on pages 200-204. Could you clarify the discrepancy?

Thanks for your time.

- Gauss


I'm a little late to this convo ... where are the wealth/item creation rules that are getting everybody so worked up?


Jason Nelson wrote:


Officially, all hexes are the same and all settlements are the same and all lots in a settlement are the same. Population is not a relevant stat in the published rules and exists purely as a bit of flavor text.

If you are interested in a more robust system for integrating population with your kingdom-building rules... stay tuned. :)

(Raises hand.) Count me as interested. I love the kingdom/city-building mini-game but using the default population numbers, I can't replicate, say, Sandpoint, without greatly increasing the size of that town.


Is anyone else still waiting on their hardcopy to arrive?

The tracking information on mine has still not updated. It still says tracking information is unavailable and should update within 24-48 hours of being shipped, which should have been no later than last Friday.


*raises hand*

But then mine was shipped last Friday, so today is the first day of the shipping estimate.


I as well. It's getting annoying.


Thanks, Geistlinger, I was just wondering if anyone else was still waiting. Most of the time my shipments arrive much more quickly. Usually within four days of the "should ship no later than" notice.

The Holiday must have backed up the shipping companies enough that they are neglecting to update their tracking information. Thanks again.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
BPorter wrote:
Jason Nelson wrote:


Officially, all hexes are the same and all settlements are the same and all lots in a settlement are the same. Population is not a relevant stat in the published rules and exists purely as a bit of flavor text.

If you are interested in a more robust system for integrating population with your kingdom-building rules... stay tuned. :)

(Raises hand.) Count me as interested. I love the kingdom/city-building mini-game but using the default population numbers, I can't replicate, say, Sandpoint, without greatly increasing the size of that town.

This is why I've houseruled population increase only from houses.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Mine just arrived yesterday. When I got my shipping notice, it said it was going to ship ON last Friday, so if yours also shipped ON last Friday as well, then it is likely on its way and will arrive soon if you are in the U.S.

The whole time, I got nothing on the tracking update, but I blame that on UPS not on Paizo.

I'm certain the holiday has backed stuff up, they tend to.


DeathQuaker wrote:

Mine just arrived yesterday. When I got my shipping notice, it said it was going to ship ON last Friday, so if yours also shipped ON last Friday as well, then it is likely on its way and will arrive soon if you are in the U.S.

The whole time, I got nothing on the tracking update, but I blame that on UPS not on Paizo.

I'm certain the holiday has backed stuff up, they tend to.

Thanks, DeathQuaker. Yep, mine was scheduled to ship out last Friday. I got the "no later than" notice on Wednesday, which is about normal. About half the time when I get the notice on Wednesday then it arrives by that Saturday. Usually no later than the following Tuesday. I was just surprised that the two-day (including Saturday) Holiday had backed UPS up by more than three days. I did not anticapate that. Of course, I place the delay squarely on the shoulders of UPS. The good folks at Paizo have nothing to do with shipping delays. I just wanted to make sure that I was not alone. Thanks!

Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Weslocke wrote:

Is anyone else still waiting on their hardcopy to arrive?

The tracking information on mine has still not updated. It still says tracking information is unavailable and should update within 24-48 hours of being shipped, which should have been no later than last Friday.

Mine should arrive from Amazon tomorrow (probably).

-Skeld


Then yours may actually arrive before mine, Skeld. I just saw my mailman go by without stopping. :(


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Yeah, that was my main concern. I'm against the wizard having to subsidize the other PC's magic item habits at all, though. They should take their own damn crafting feats! And get off his lawn, too!

Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
How much clearer can "The increased wealth for the other characters should come out of YOUR increased allotment" be? It is your increased wealth which you are supposed to give up. Not for the crafting components, but for the increased WBL allotment which you could have spent on crafting your own stuff.

You're giving up your potential income from crafting, but you're not giving up your actual share of the treasure.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding kenmckinney's concern, but it seemed to me that he was under the impression that the wizard would have to spend the actual money he'd already earned in order to craft things for other players.

I.e, you and I kill an ogre, and we sell it's ogre-pants for 2,000 gp. Split two ways, that gives us 1,000 gp each. If I want to craft some equipment for you, I would have to spend some of my 1,000 gp to do it (say, 250 gp), leaving me with 750 gp and you with 1,000 gp and equipment worth another 500 gp.

That is most definitely not the case. Maybe I misunderstood kenmckinney, though.

Dark Archive

Chris Lambertz wrote:
Evil Genius Prime wrote:
I'd like to know this as well. I never buy the PDFs. So it would be great if the sheets were being put out as a separate PDF that could be printed off. Does anyone on the Paizo Team know if this will be the case?
I currently have this on my to-do list :)

Awesome! Thanks Chris!


Just got mine in from Amazon, and my god is this book gorgeous.

I love the art littered throughout it, so many great pieces. Best one is Lem trying to court the elven girl (to her shock) and her male elven friend laughing his ass off.

Haven't studies the building and kingdom rules in detail yet, but I am very excited to as I have several players spanning several games all starting to want to build stuff. Monk wants a Dojo and Fighter wants a fortress ect... This book came at a perfect time.

Designer, RPG Superstar Judge

5 people marked this as a favorite.

Thank you to Benchak for explaining my point before I logged on this morning. :)

To clarify in my own words:

kenmckinney wrote:
I especially dislike the idea that the wizard is obligated by virtue of having his crafting feat to provide services to the group,

Characters with crafting feats are not obligated in any way to provide services to the group.

kenmckinney wrote:
paid for out of his own treasure share.

The WBL alterations for a crafting character do not take away treasure for the crafting character in any way other than the normal costs described in the Core Rulebook, whether you are crafting for yourself or someone else.

kenmckinney wrote:
I hope this isn't really what the book says, and that I've misunderstood this part.

Which is why I originally said, "That's not what it says at all."

And...

magnuskn wrote:
How much clearer can "The increased wealth for the other characters should come out of YOUR increased allotment" be? It is your increased wealth which you are supposed to give up.

That isn't taking treasure or wealth away from the wizard. It's saying "you can't use these rules to double the amount of gear for everyone in the party, there is a limit, that limit is +25% of your wealth, whether you decide to apply that to yourself or someone else." To repeat:

• The crafting character is not obligated to make items.
• The crafting character is not obligated to make items for other members of the party.
• Nothing in the rules (Core Rulebook or Ultimate Campaign) says the crafting character has to use his own treasure to pay for the crafting of items for other characters. If Bazravakia the Barbarian wants Salazar the Sorcerer to craft some magic boots, Baz should hand Sal a bunch of gold. Sal can also say "no, I'm using my full +25% for myself, get your own damn crafting feat."

So there is no contradiction between what I said in response to kenmckinney and magnuskn's quote of what the book says.


Two posts coming, first a review/general impression.

Expected to find this book mildly useful. Instead, it's got some stuff - primarily the kingdom/mass combat rules and the story feats - that are really going to upgrade my campaign in a big way.

I can see big room for house rule upgrades and tweaks, but the kingdom-battle rules seem to create a very solid framework. Comes at a perfect time for my campaign...

Always cool when a Paizo book exceeds expectation.

--Marsh


Now the questions.

I'm interested in incorporating the kingdom/mass battles rules into a campaign set in Varisia.

- Has anyone generated hex maps that scale any parts of Varisia to a kingmaker-size/kingdom-building format?

- Has anyone generated calculations about settlements and cities in Varisia that calculate their kingmaker attributes -- BP production, etc?

Now basic rules questions.

- Is it clear from the rules how large an army can be levied from a given population? Are there limits, or an you buy any army that you have the BPs to support?

- Why did Paizo calculate all BP costs in monthly increments but the BP costs for armies in weekly increments? This seems clunky AND unrealistic. Surely medieval-era armies couldn't be levied and disbanded in weekly increments?

Thanks,

Marsh

-

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Quote:

That isn't taking treasure or wealth away from the wizard. It's saying "you can't use these rules to double the amount of gear for everyone in the party, there is a limit, that limit is +25% of your wealth, whether you decide to apply that to yourself or someone else." To repeat:

• The crafting character is not obligated to make items.
• The crafting character is not obligated to make items for other members of the party.
• Nothing in the rules (Core Rulebook or Ultimate Campaign) says the crafting character has to use his own treasure to pay for the crafting of items for other characters. If Bazravakia the Barbarian wants Salazar the Sorcerer to craft some magic boots, Baz should hand Sal a bunch of gold. Sal can also say "no, I'm using my full +25% for myself, get your own damn crafting feat."

So there is no contradiction between what I said in response to kenmckinney and magnuskn's quote of what the book says.

Okay, that actually makes sense... I'm going to go ahead and nominate this one for the FAQ right now, because that's not how anyone in my game group read it. Everyone was assuming that the Wizard had to spend the extra 25%.

Edit: Or rather, I would if I could. I don't see a nominate for FAQ button in this thread.


BuzzardB wrote:
I love the art littered throughout it, so many great pieces. Best one is Lem trying to court the elven girl (to her shock) and her male elven friend laughing his ass off.

I like the monk down on his luck as a begger, with his head of full black locks. ^^

After a first peek "Downtime" appears to be a bit of a misnomer. As a GM who runs games that are rather light on combat and level advancement, the Downtime rules seem like something that could become a quite major part of the game where actually most of the PCs everyday life is happening.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

Gauss wrote:

Jason Nelson, thanks for the awesome Kingdom rules. :)

I have a couple of confirmation type questions:

Glad you are enjoying them!

Gauss wrote:
1) Are roads still a prerequisite to building a Farm? (They were in Kingmaker).

Nope.

Gauss wrote:
2) There are still references to Brothel, am I correct that those references should now be 'Dance Hall'?

Yep.

Gauss wrote:

3) How long does the Royal Enforcer's Loyalty decrease (on a failed Loyalty check) last?

Note: I'm guessing 1 turn (month).

It's permanent.

Turns out murdering or imprisoning political dissidents, rivals, or people that disagree with the ruler doesn't do wonders for your approval ratings. You can do it, but there's a risk people will find out and not like it.

As an alternative rule, you could have it generate +1 Infamy instead of (or in addition to) the Loyalty penalty.

Gauss wrote:
4) In the Leadership Role Skills on page 232 there is an Ambassador role listed. No such role is listed in the Leadership Roles on pages 200-204. Could you clarify the discrepancy?

Ambassador got renamed to Grand Diplomat (which was what it was called in the original KM rules anyway; I thought Ambassador sounded cooler, but they changed it back, probably for reasons of consistency with the earlier rules).

Gauss wrote:

Thanks for your time.

- Gauss

Happy to help. :)


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So, looking over the Sheets for Settlements/Kingdoms that were provided in the .pdf... Why does the Kingdom have the stats for Productivity/Lore/etc. when those are supposed to be per settlement? Am I missing something?

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