The Genius Guide to the Riven Mage (PFRPG) PDF

****½ (based on 3 ratings)

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The Genius Guide to the Riven Mage presents a new base class, one that masters a form of magic similar to spells, but considerably simpler and more primal. Known by various cultures as jinx, marvels, will-work, and invocations, most riven mages from more advanced cultures call their mystic powers "rivenspells," meaning these powers use the same energies as spells but all the unnecessary trappings haven been removed. Rather than "cast spells," riven mages talk of "riving energies," as they see the act of creating a riven spell ("to rive" such an effect) the equivalent of tearing a magic effect loose from the background of reality. While rivenspells are significantly more limited in their breadth and flexibility than spells, at the same time they are freed of many of the limitations of spells. A riven mage never worries herself about having a component pouch, what armor she is wearing, or exactly what noises and movements she must make to call on her magic powers. While other spellcasters often claim riven mages are "primitive," riven mages see themselves as the purest of magic-users, able to call upon their effects easily, quickly, and even under significantly adverse conditions.

Riven mages are proud of their powers, and like to show off what they can do. For goodaligned riven mages this often means using their powers to aid the downtrodden or defend their homelands. Neutral riven mages are more likely to seek compensation for their talents, acting as mercenaries or occasionally, entertainers. Evil riven mages are always planning to build a power base from which to gain wealth and comfort, but begin such efforts by acting as enforcers for groups who do not normally attract the full-time services of traditional spellcasters (such as gangs, brigand bands, slavers, assassins, and thieves guilds).

While riven mages are well known and understood in their native lands, they are also independent and often wander far from their homes. It's not unusual to find riven mages thousands of miles from their homes, making it easy to introduce a few wandering riven mages into a campaign (as travelers from a distant land where their powers are commonplace).

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****½ (based on 3 ratings)

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Fun With a Side of Variety

*****

I've put off on writing this until I had a chance to play the one for awhile and now I'm ready to give my verdict. Fun stuff within these pages, Maynard.

The Good:

You get a nicely variable class you can choose to play differently depending on your style. Want to have a hack n' slasher with an arcane boost? You got it. Ranged zapper with a plenty of fuel in the tank? Yup. Skill monkey with some variety in the form of Marvels? Well what do you know, you got that too!

And here is something that I think is very important, this works all by itself. This isn't the addition of a new rule set (which flux and rivenspells are to a degree) that is sorely in need of more to make it work. You can play a Rivenmage and play it fully with just this package. There are enough Rivenspells that with the Marvel options you can handle nearly any setup with confidence.

Now, understand, with the strength of Rivenspells being Supernatural Abilities you don't have a lot of supporting feats out there to pump them up. Which is actually a hidden blessing as you don't have a list of "well, obviously I HAVE to choose this grocery list of feats to make this work" and instead can focus on the feats you want to make your particular build feel original and fun for you.

The Bad: The only thing I've found wanting is a lack of favored class options. That's something I'd like to see made available but beyond that, I don't have anything to kvetch about.

The Ugly? Nothing here my fellow game-buddy.


How magic probably should be

****( )

Let me start by saying that had this product ended on page 13, it would have gotten a 5 star review. I absolutely love the riven mage, and the concept of riven mage. It is unfortunate that (at least in my opninion) an archetype added at the end of the product brings it down in my eyes.

First off, I really like riven magic. I like the concept and the execution. Basically you have a handful of simple spells, and you can pour more or less energy into them to vary the effect with limits based on your level. So a 1st and 10th level riven mage might both know the same 'bolt' spell, but the 10th level riven mage can put alot more 'umph' (called flux in the product) into it, and has alot more umph to use over the course of the day.

Think Dresden files. Harry has always known his fire spell 'fuego' but the amount of energy he has been able to put into it has changed (increased) over the course of the series. The same spell can be used to set something flammable on fire, or to knock out a wall of a building, the latter just takes more energy.

There also isnt the same overwhelming number of options that vancian spellcasting offers. You know a handful of spells, they are useful, but you dont have the 60's style batman with an anti-thing spray in your utility belt like pathfinder wizards can often have.

I also like the subtle influence of the riven paths. They seam like a minor ability choice, but they also allow access to one specific riven spell that other rivenmages get. A sacred riven mage can heal, and a sneak can turn invisible. That is the kind of thing that could strongly influence a character over the course of it's career. I'd love for an expansion of this product with a few new riven spells, and especially a few more riven spells tied to riven paths. One that would allow complete healing duties (condition removal and ability damage/level drain) to be handled by riven mages on the sacred path for instance.

With a slight expansion I could see a campaign that elminates traditional spellcasting in favor of riven magic, particularly if we got a super genius style archetype that could be integrated in to most classes.

There are a number of feats after the riven spells that make for some interesting options, though I would love to see a few magic items that were wand/staff equivalents for riven mages. Maybe something that integrated the genius guide to runestaves and wyrd wands implement rules with riven magic.

Then we come to the part of the product I dont like. The last couple pages are occupied by the rivener, an archetype for the Archon, a super genius class that was the projenetor of riven magic. And to be blunt, its bad, and poorly thought out. The archetype basically strips all of its class features and gives it back only a handful and a weaker version of riven magic. It inexplicably leaves in the arcane surge ability that does not work for a rivener since it doesnt use traditional spells, and riven spells are already swift actions. So all they end up with is a weakened form of riven magic (about 1/3 of a spell), 3 bonus feats, Riven bond at 8th level and a capstone feature. Levels, 1,2,4,6,7,10,11,12,14,16,18 an 19 dont have class features. That isnt a good class and its definately not in line with the design goal of pathfinder to have classes get something every level.

As interesting as it would be to combine a full bab class with riven magic, the absolute derth of class abilities the riven mage gets and the inexplicable choice to remove potentially useful abilities like soul of the spell blade or favored spell (which could have been reworked relatively easily to work with riven spells), and leave in a completely useless set (arcane surge) make this an inexcusably bad Archetype. The reduced riven magic is not worth all of the classes class features AND 6 levels of standard spellcasting.

And it is a realy shame because I would love to see several levels of riven magic, perhaps even the full specturm of paladin, inquisitor and cleric casting (4levels, 6 level, and 9 levels). Not sure if the rivenmage is supposed to be in line with the bard/inquisitor or the wizard/cleric when it comes to riven magic, but my impresion is its the middle ground caster. So that would leave open the 'full' rivenspell caster, and the full bab partial caster that the rivener should have been.

That said, this is still a great product, just ignore the last couple of pages. I absolutely love the concept and the execution, and can even start visualizing a campaign where this is the dominant for of magic and not vancian.


Solid Warlock-style blaster-class

****( )

This pdf is 15 pages long, 2/3 of a page front cover, 1 page editorial/front cover, leaving us with 13 1/3 pages of content for the Riven Mage, so let's check out this new base-class!

So what is the Riven Mage? The riven mage gets d8, 6+Int skills per level, 3/4 BAB-progression, proficiency with simple weapons, light and medium armor, shields and all good save-progressions.

Riven Mages cast different spells, raw magical powers called Rivenspells - they cast these via a pool called flux that starts off as a humble 2 points + Int-modifier flux points to cast their rivenspells, up to a maximum of a base 168 flux points at 20th level. Now, if you're familiar with SGG's gish-class Archon, you may know the basic concept of rivenspells, but more on that later. What is crucial to riven mages is the option to once per day regain ALL flux by meditating 15 minutes instead of resting for 8 hours, making the class more suitable for long adventure days with longer downtimes. They may enhance their rivenspells by spending additional flux points up to 1/2 class-level +1.

At first level, Riven Mages may choose from 6 different Riven Paths that grant the riven mage a bonus on a save, additional class skills and e.g. abilities like trafinding. At 12th level, they may act as if they had access to select spells for prerequisite crafting, spell triggers etc. At 2nd level and every 5 levels after that, the Riven Mage may also attune to a form of energy damage, opting to change her rivenspell damage to the chosen energy and adding her int-bonus to the damage of the modified rivenspell. They may also specialize in a particular rivenspell to cut flux-cost in half. As a capstone, they may use their flux points to make saves and mitigate received damage.

We get a total of 41 Rivenspells in the pdf, all of which come with a minimum-cost of flux and a minimum rivencaster level as well as e.g. required paths to take them etc. . Here a blatant and sloppy cosmetic glitch can be found: About half of the rivenspells list "Rivencaster 1" as prerequisite, the other half list "Rivencaster level 1" - now just about any editor should have caught this one. While not tragic, it detracts from a solidified look of the pdf, if not from its rules. The rivenspells represent more crude applications of magic than regular spells and as such usually can be made to last longer or gain increased powers by spending additional flux points. Far Sight e.g. gains an improved sensor-range and the Morph rivenspell allows the rivencaster to e.g. gain scent, but become blind, a fly-speed, but at the expense of arms etc. They may also throw arcanely-imbued weapon, charged with flux.

The class also comes with 3 different feats, one to get extra flux, one for an extra rivenspell and one to further optimize flux-expenditure regarding one rivenspell. The pdf also includes an alternative of the Archon focused wholly on rivenspells, the Rivener, which turns out to be not only a complex archetype, but actually one that makes the Archon-class stand out much more by replacing their spellcasting with rivencasting. It's a bit weird that two abilities specify that they replace the same ability, though.

Conclusion:
Editing and formatting are not up to the usually flawless standard by SGG - I noticed several glitches and inconsistencies, much more than I'm used from regarding SGG, including some minor formatting issues - nothing too serious, though. Layout adheres to SGG's 3-column, landscape standard and the pdf comes with full bookmarks - neat!

The Riven Mage per se is a very cool class and a concept I hope authors Carl Gilchrist and Owen K.C. Stephens will expand with more rivenspells. The class is not only solid, it is essentially a good take on a warlock-style class that can blast foes with arcane energy, support via rivenspells, but never attain the versatility of full spell-casters. All in all, a solid, cool blaster-class that suffers slightly from editing glitches. Thus, I'll settle for a final verdict of 4.5 stars, rounded down to 4 for the purpose of this platform.

Endzeitgeist out.


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Oooo, sounds neat.


To continue the tradition of giving a thief/warrior/caster version of the tropes SGG explores in base classes, we're going to need a riven thief or assassin next :)


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

*looks at the riven mage*....*looks at what he has been trying to homebrew for the last 3 weeks*...*checks his keyboard and notbook for owen k c stephen's fingerprints*.

This is special kinds of cool. I have only given the class a brief overview so far, but to say I like it is like saying the Grand Canyon is a rather large Ditch. Seriously I was wondering if the Geniuses had turned off their 'What does Kolo want for pathfinder monitoring device' but apparently it was just waiting for the right moment to send the data...

The only comment I have is there ought to be something like spell focus for this class. I am not sure how it would be worked in, but there ought to be able to take a feat to increase the save dcs of a subset of riven spells.

That said, I think you need to look at one paragraph again:

'No rivencaster can ever spend more
flux to activate a rivenspell than half her
rivencaster level +1. (Round the rivencaster’s
level normally for this calculation – 1st and
2nd level rivencasters can spend a maximum
of 1 flux for each rivenspell, 3rd and 4th level
rivencasters a maximum of 2 flux, 5th and 6th
a maximum of 3, and so on.)'

The sentance and the description in paranthesis do not match.

If you are capped at half your rivencaster level(rounded down) + 1, First level the cap is 1 (1/2[0]+1), 2nd (2/2 is 1 plus 1 is 2) and 3rd level are 2, 4th and 5th level are 3 etc.

I'll give it a more thorough look through this evening and comment further.

Paizo Employee Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

Kolokotroni wrote:
*looks at the riven mage*....*looks at what he has been trying to homebrew for the last 3 weeks*...*checks his keyboard and notbook for owen k c stephen's fingerprints*.

You should also check for Carl Gilchrist's fingerprints this time...

Kolokotroni wrote:
This is special kinds of cool. I have only given the class a brief overview so far, but to say I like it is like saying the Grand Canyon is a rather large Ditch. Seriously I was wondering if the Geniuses had turned off their 'What does Kolo want for pathfinder monitoring device' but apparently it was just waiting for the right moment to send the data...

I'm glad you like it. :)

Kolokotroni wrote:
The only comment I have is there ought to be something like spell focus for this class. I am not sure how it would be worked in, but there ought to be able to take a feat to increase the save dcs of a subset of riven spells.

Interesting idea. I'll add it to the hopper.

Kolokotroni wrote:
That said, I think you need to look at one paragraph again:

DANG IT!

Yes, the forumals changed several times, and I thought I had cleaned them all up. Poo. It should read as follows:

'No riven mage can ever spend more flux to activate a rivenspell than half her rivencaster level. Unlike most calculations, round fractions up for this. Thus 1st and 2nd level riven mages can spend a maximum
of 1 flux for each rivenspell, 3rd and 4th level riven mages a maximum of 2 flux, 5th and 6th a maximum of 3, and so on.'

I'll get this fixed asap.


Downloaded this one today and perused it and decided it was all kinds of very cool! Have to figure out if I want to add this to my home campaign. Hopefully we will see some additional expansions for this including bullet points or some such, more rivenspells perhaps...

Between this, the mosaic Mage and the spell points, I'm really liking some of these options,


This looks like an interesting take on casting...


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I have another question about riven spells known at first level:

A riven mage with a high
Intelligence scores gains a number of bonus
rivenspells known equal to the number of
bonus 1st level spells she would receive if she
was a wizard.

I am not sure if this means the number of extra spells a wizard would get in their spellbook at first level equal to their int score, or if it means the number of bonus spell slots a wizard would get if he or she had a high int according to that chart early in the core rules.

Paizo Employee Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

Kolokotroni wrote:

I have another question about riven spells known at first level:

A riven mage with a high
Intelligence scores gains a number of bonus
rivenspells known equal to the number of
bonus 1st level spells she would receive if she
was a wizard.

I am not sure if this means the number of extra spells a wizard would get in their spellbook at first level equal to their int score, or if it means the number of bonus spell slots a wizard would get if he or she had a high int according to that chart early in the core rules.

The later.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I am putting together a couple npcs to use in my campaign that will be riven mages and I realized something that seems kind of odd. Bolt and Greater bolt are straight ranged attacks instead of Ranged Touch attacks. Seems kind of odd for a force effect. Is it intentional?

Edit:
While I am at it, is the Heal Riven spell supposed to use your wisdom modifier instead of your intelligence?

Silver Crusade

A few questions...

If I wanted to swap in an archetype package, what would you suggest taking out of the riven mage? I was thinking the riven path feature would be a good place to start (to replace it with the death mage package for an upcoming campaign). Is there anything else you'd suggest or would that be enough?

Will there be more rivenspells coming in the future?

Why aren't there any rivenspells that relate to undead or are you just holding those back to see how well the base class does?

Thanking you in advance for taking the time to answer.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This is just speculation, but I would think that you would need to give up more then just a riven path for a sgg archetype. At least riven path and your riven bonds.


This reminds me a lot of the 3.5e Warlock. At the very least, it could be a reasonable substitute for somebody wanting to play a warlock.

Silver Crusade

Kolokotroni wrote:
This is just speculation, but I would think that you would need to give up more then just a riven path for a sgg archetype. At least riven path and your riven bonds.

Well, in giving up the paths ability, you're not only giving up the added class features that come with the paths themselves but you actually end up cutting yourself out of getting several rivenspells, so not having it is a big deal.


Question, I am trying to accommodate a player who really likes the Rivenmage but wants some illusion based magic. I dusted off my old game designer hat and came up with these additions. Do they fit the overall design and if you were going for illusion options would you be satisfied?

Illusion
Prerequisite: Rivencaster 1
Minimum Flux Cost: 1
The rivencaster creates a visual illusion of an object, creature or force. The illusion does not create sound, smell, texture or temerature. The vision can not be greater than what would fit within a 10 ft cube. The illusion lasts one minute per level.
A riven mage may spend 1 flux point to add one of the following elements, sound, smell, texture or temperature. Each additional element is an additional 1 flux. A riven mage may also chose not to use to a visual component and use one or any of the additional components instead.

Greater Illusion
Prerequisite: Rivencaster 5
Minimum Flux Cost: 1
As the Illusion rivenspell, but the spell may include 2 additional elements at no additional cost. Also, the size may be increased by 10 cubic feet per flux.

Persistant Illusion
Prerequisite: Rivencaster 12
Minimum Flux Cost: 1
As the Greater rivenspell, but everything follows a specific script determined by the rivenmage. The script is followed without concentration.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I have an additional question about riven magic. It is in regards to a previous super genius product. The genius guide to Runestaves and wyrd wands. I am wondering how if at all the implement rules established in that product should or shouldnt interact with riven magic.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I am going to be playing a rivenmage in a new campaign this weekend, really looking forward to it.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Kolokotroni wrote:

I have another question about riven spells known at first level:

A riven mage with a high
Intelligence scores gains a number of bonus
rivenspells known equal to the number of
bonus 1st level spells she would receive if she
was a wizard.

I am not sure if this means the number of extra spells a wizard would get in their spellbook at first level equal to their int score, or if it means the number of bonus spell slots a wizard would get if he or she had a high int according to that chart early in the core rules.

You need to reword this ability so you don't have to look up another class to try to transliterate from it.

If necessary, make a table.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
LazarX wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:

I have another question about riven spells known at first level:

A riven mage with a high
Intelligence scores gains a number of bonus
rivenspells known equal to the number of
bonus 1st level spells she would receive if she
was a wizard.

I am not sure if this means the number of extra spells a wizard would get in their spellbook at first level equal to their int score, or if it means the number of bonus spell slots a wizard would get if he or she had a high int according to that chart early in the core rules.

You need to reword this ability so you don't have to look up another class to try to transliterate from it.

If necessary, make a table.

It probably should be reworded but you arent referencing another class, you are referencing the 'getting started' section of the core rules that all casters must reference.


And reviewed here, on DTRPG and sent to GMS magazine. Cheers!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Kolokotroni wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:

I have another question about riven spells known at first level:

A riven mage with a high
Intelligence scores gains a number of bonus
rivenspells known equal to the number of
bonus 1st level spells she would receive if she
was a wizard.

I am not sure if this means the number of extra spells a wizard would get in their spellbook at first level equal to their int score, or if it means the number of bonus spell slots a wizard would get if he or she had a high int according to that chart early in the core rules.

You need to reword this ability so you don't have to look up another class to try to transliterate from it.

If necessary, make a table.

It probably should be reworded but you arent referencing another class, you are referencing the 'getting started' section of the core rules that all casters must reference.

Quite frankly, if I'm going to lay down three bucks for something that's just one class description, I expect that description to be self contained as much as feasibly possible. Especially if the lack of such inclusion can lead to ambiguities such as those already pointed out. This is a game of permissions and exceptions, assumptions if not carefully gauged, can be a problem.

Paizo Employee Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

Endzeitgeist wrote:
And reviewed here, on DTRPG and sent to GMS magazine. Cheers!

Thanks for the review, End!

Paizo Employee Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

1 person marked this as a favorite.
LazarX wrote:
Quite frankly, if I'm going to lay down three bucks for something that's just one class description, I expect that description to be self contained as much as feasibly possible. Especially if the lack of such inclusion can lead to ambiguities such as those already pointed out. This is a game of permissions and exceptions, assumptions if not carefully gauged, can be a problem.

I sympathize, but there are two problems with including things from the core rulebook (and you *have* to own the core rulebook be to able to play).

First, a lot of our patrons print these, and they're fairly vocal that they don't want any needless redundancy. It costs them paper, it costs them toner, and it costs them time. So if I am referring to a basic rule of the game, I don't repeat it.

Second, where do we draw the line on being 'self contained?' There are no class specific rules not included here, but that doesn't mean you don't need the core rulebook. Do I need to list all nine possible alignments? Should I include all the descriptions of the class skills? Repeat the relevant armor and weapon equipment descriptions? Should I define spell-trigger items for the "Path of the Arcane?"

As it happens, "bonus spells" is a game term. When you read about ability scores, the description of Intelligence notes how many bonus spells a wizard gets, and refers to a chart. The term "bonus spells" is never applied to the number of spells a wizard begins play already having in his spellbook. Since you have to have the core rulebook anyway to use this class, I consider it not only okay, but a good design decision not to needlessly recreate information already contained in it.

I'm genuinely sorry if this design decision doesn't meet your needs. If you are unhappy with you purchase let me know, and I'll arrange for a refund.

Paizo Employee Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

Many thanks to Kolokotroni for the review!

Regarding the comment that Levels 1,2,4,6,7,10,11,12,14,16,18 an 19 dont have class features, I'd note that the rivener gets a new rivenspell at 1st, 2nd and every even level thereafter. Just like many casters mostly get new spells at some levels, the riverner gets a brand new ability art 2, 4, 6, 8, q, 12, 14, 16, 18i, and 20.

That leaves levels 7, 11, and 19 without something new gained. They do gain more flux points at every level, so a lot like sorcerers who only get more spells at 2nd (and not a new level of spells), there *are* places where the rivener just gets the ability to do more of what they were already doing (along with a full attack progression), similar to some levels of wizard (when all you get is more spells/day). I had no complaints about this in playtest, and given how powerful a full attack with rivenspells is, I'm not sure how I'd add much more in.

That said, I'll cop to arcane surge being something that should be replaced. I had meant to give riveners the same ability as the riven mages combat rivener, and it got lost in the shuffle. I'll see if I can get the pdf updated.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I would disagree that the new spell is sufficient for a reduced caster. Every paizo reduced caster (whether 6 levels 3/4 bab or 4 levels full bab) get a class ability of some sort besides new spells. The rivener is certainly not a full caster equivalent like a sorceror or a wizard. To me at least what they can do seems closer to a paladin/ranger, a small supplement to thier abilities (given the 1/3 level flux limit which essentially puts them at 1/3 caster level). And even full casters only miss out on class levels when they get new spell levels, not new spells known (with the except of second level).

The 'new spell level' equivalents in riven spells are really only 3,7 and 10. At those levels you get access to several new riven spells which is the sort of equivalent of a new spell level for a full caster. There is also 9, 13 and 17 but that is only for the marvel spells (a fairly specific choice) and kind of hyper specific for a new class ability, tbere is a fairly descent chace most riveners wont choose them. But that again, applies only to full casters if we take paizo's standard. The rivener is definately not a full caster. That still leaves open 4,6,11,12,14,16,18, as dead levels even judging it as a full caster by pathfinder standards which it is really not.

If the rivener were presented as a class chart, it would look like it belonged in 3.5 not pathfinder, empty at the majority of levels. It is devoid of abilities that make it unique, its just a class with full bab and reduced riven spells. Without any class abilities to define it its pretty absent of an identity of its own. Its also no longer really an archon, you have pretty much taken everything out of it that makes an archon an archon and left it with disconnected martial and magical abilities.

Concerns about balance are important, but I dont think they should ever come at the expense of giving it interesting class abilities each level, or giving it unique and interesting mechanics to back its flavor.. They didnt have to be powerful, a riven path isnt an overwhelmingly powerful ability, but its a flavorful one, something like that could have been included if you were worried about it becoming too powerful.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Owen I have a question. If you were to give riven magic to the vanguard instead of the archon, assuming all or most of the vanguards class abilities would be modified/replaced to make them work with rivenmagic instead of normal spells, would you think it appropriate to give them riven spells as per a rivener, or as per the riven mage? Maybe rivenmage flux/max flux limits but fewer rivenspells known?

Paizo Employee Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

Wow... interesting question.

I think it would have to be a hybrid between the two. The rivener has better bab and hp than the vanguard so I suspect even with more class abilities, the vanguard would be slightly underpowered without more riven oomph... but I am not sure of that. I'd likely start with what a rivener gets and playtest, then turn the dial slowly up. There might be a synergy between the swift and simple rivenspells and the martial class abilities of the vanguard.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

That was my thinking too, would have to try it out to see where the dial ought to be, but I put together a list of initial changes, because I'm considering an all rivenmagic campaign. And if I can sort out a good dial for the 'average' riven magic to be added to a 6/level caster, it would be a good start for setting up an achertype that could be put into most 6 level caster classes.

And there is definately some synergy, depending on what and how much you alter/replaced from the vangaurd. Just with vangaurd blast and riven spells like bolt and blast, you have quite the blaster mage. I am kind of fixated on this concept of a Koldemar Riven-Vanguard blasting focused mage, as I feel like the roll filled by either the warlock or the warmage from 3.5 hasnt really been filled yet in pathfinder, and the simple magic of rivenmagic, plus the addition resources of something like the vanguard blast seems like a solid foundation for that.

Silver Crusade

I'm not sure if this was just lost in the shuffle or not, but I'll take another stab at this:

A few questions...

If I wanted to swap in an archetype package, what would you suggest to take out of the riven mage? I was thinking the riven path feature would be a good place to start (to replace it with the death mage package for an upcoming campaign). Is there anything else you'd suggest or would that be enough?

Will there be more rivenspells coming in the future and, if so, will any pertain to the creation of undead (If not, I'd understand completely as it could be that the creation of undead is more a recent magic innovation that's beyond the ability of riven magic to perform).


Is there gonna be any more riven spell/options coming soon? Just curious.

Paizo Employee Contributor

Soon? Probably not. I have a *lot* on my plate, and much as I'd like to expand this product (it's one of my personal favorites), it's not as high a priority as Talented Barbarian or Mythic Rogue Class Features.

OTOH, I'm in a game where one of the original Rivener creators is playing a rivener, so he might well write up things he'd like to see and hand them to me for development at any time. So there's still hope.


Sweet.

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