RSS RSS Facebook Twitter Email
Pathfinder / Adventures / First Edition Adventures / Adventure Finder / 16th Level

Way of the Wicked—Book #5: The Devil My Only Master (PFRPG) PDF

3.50/5 (based on 6 ratings)
FRM1005E

Our Price: $10.00

Add to Cart
Facebook Twitter Email

For years you have been a follower in a sinister conspiracy dedicated to burning the noble nation of Talingarde to the ground. For years you have accepted their missions and done as you were told. For years you have been a MINION.

That changes today. Today you seize your destiny. Today you will destroy those who think themselves above you. Today you will become the dark lord you were always destined to be. And then all of Talingarde will tremble in your wake.

Welcome to the fifth chapter of the critically acclaimed, ENnie-award nominated “Way of the Wicked” adventure path!

Inside you’ll find:

  • “The Devil My Only Master,” an adventure compatible with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game designed for 16th-level villains by Gary McBride
  • Full color illustrations and maps by Michael Clarke
  • New character options for villains by Jason Bulmahn
  • How to play vampire and lich PCs
  • And More!

    • Hunt a linnorm! Corrupt a paladin! Slay your master and become Talingarde’s greatest villains!

    No one but the devil guides you now.

Product Availability

Fulfilled immediately.

Are there errors or omissions in this product information? Got corrections? Let us know at store@paizo.com.

FRM1005E

See Also:

1 to 5 of 6 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

Average product rating:

3.50/5 (based on 6 ratings)

Sign in to create or edit a product review.

*sigh*

1/5 —

I wish I could give a product 0 stars.

This book hurts me; It's so bad that it burned me out of GMing the AP. It's so bad it actively hurt my mental health.

Here's a laconic version of the plot: The PCs escape from their blood pact with their sponsor and kill him. They also get revenge on the paladin that's been a thorn in their side. It's an acceptable plot overall, but the logistics of it are inexcusable.

Over the course of the AP, the writers have established a couple things about the PCs' sponsor. Namely...
* He's a cleric lich.
* He can somehow grossly violate Asmodean principles (by resurrecting a Paladin actively acting against them) without Asmodeus revoking his power.
* He can still experience positive emotions like love, as established by his reasoning for resurrecting said paladin (he saw a long-lost love in him: he's the son of his muse)
* He's an incel.

This book goes deeper into b&@+$!$# Hell with him in two ways:
*He was resurrected by a pit fiend into a lich. Who then immediately gave him his phylactery, despite that being a MASSIVE bargaining chip.
* He hid his phylactery in an incredibly amateurish location. If he were a Bard or an Inquisitor, fine. But he's a 9th level caster with Create Greater Demiplane on his class list. He's had *decades* to prepare and augment it. He doesn't use it.

That thorn in the PCs' side, the paladin, is their first goal in the book. He's actually been incredibly successful overall, only failing in his first encounter with the party, and now. Despite this success, there's potential for him to fall here straight into being an Antipaladin. Worse, this is the *expected* outcome, only for them to pull a 'gotcha!' in the next book.

Oh, speaking of: the book forces the LE Antipaladin houserule on you, even if you don't allow him to fall.

The book demonstrates their inability to properly apply most templates:
* They butcher applying the Advanced Bestiary's Jotunblooded template, making what should be one of the toughest characters in the AP into a pushover
* There's a pair of raveners that were originally mature adults. Ravener can only be applied to Ancient or older dragons.
* They removed the Fort save from the humanoid undead (who still need to make Fort saves against, say, Disintegrate)

There's a 'masterpiece' of a trap, which *would* really hurt...if it were at all possible for the PCs to reasonably fail. A DC 20 Reflex negates, and the PCs are level 17. A better and approximately equivalent trap would be a Mage's Disjunction.

Finally, the book ends with an incredibly display of writing which fixes most of the plotholes, minor and major.../s

It's the literal definition of a Deus Ex Machina.
For example: "The Lord of Hell is older than sin and sees into the heart of mortals. He knew from the very first day of his conversion that Samuel Havelyn would never conquer Talingarde..." "He recruited every last villain truly worth of the name who yet survived on this angel-infested isle. He brought them together, trained them and gave them purpose. This scheme that he began must now be given to others to finish."
Why didn't the lich lose his cleric abilities when he revived the paladin? Because he can't lead the PCs to success if he falls at the wrong time!

As an aside, the book has an appendix with material for considering having undead PCs. Stuff like some magical items being not so useful, like belts of CON (true) and amulets of natural armour (false). They then offer up homebrew methods to help remove the drawbacks of being undead, further unbalancing the very idea. They even include a way to resurrect a creature *while still leaving the creature as undead.* This is SO ABUSEABLE and subverts what is deliberately the biggest tradeoff one makes when willingly becoming undead.

How in Hell did people trust these guys enough for a second AP when *this* is the quality of writing they achieve?

Fraud

1/5 —

I would love to give this product a higher rating but it has been written by a fraudster, Gary McBride, who tricked 315 people into giving him $40,000 through Kickstarter and refused to communicate with them for 4 years now. Despite multiple appeals from backers he has backed over 520 other kickstarters since then, logging in every week though seemingly unable to respond to his backers products. Shame on Paizo for selling the products of a con man and allowing him to continue profiting from rpg fans.

For details of the swindle and Gary McBride’s backing record see https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/730004812/throne-of-night-a-pathfinder -rpg-adventure-path/comments

Carpe Diem, Dark Lords!

5/5 —

Seize destiny with both hands and throttle it for what is rightfully yours!

At least you overthrow both the Infernal Pact you signed in Chapter 1 and the mewling sun-worshiping peons of Talingarde. A vast island awaits the tread of your hobnailed boots. Give them nothing, take from them everything.

The material about lichdom and vampirism in Pathfinder - and ways to "pay" for both without throwing things completely out of kilter are well done herein. With retraining rules from Ultimate Campaign your fiends can pay the price and even improve upon them at the cost of precious general feats. I recommend using them to base how one addresses such concerns in other sandbox campaigns. I wish I'd had this information when running my CoT/KM mash-up campaign. Well done!

The Devil My Only Master Review

5/5 —

Warning: Potential spoilers. Written from a GM's perspective. I ran this for 6 PCs.

Just a quick read of the summary for this book makes it clear that this is a pivotal chapter in the adventure path. The last four books have been building up to an inevitable confrontation between Cardinal Thorn and the PCs, regarding who will ultimately rule Talingarde. Much like it's predecessors, The Devil My Only Master does not disappoint.

Strengths:
The fear of any GM running a 16th level campaign is that your PCs are going to either steamroll every encounter you send their way or get brutally murdered themselves. I was pleasantly surprised at the challenge level of the encounters in this book. While the PCs did have a few easy wins, they also faced their fair share of challenges and near death scenarios. Havelyn and his crew turned out to be particularly deadly. Of course, I must mention that there is an encounter with the wraiths and the banshees, which even the writers acknowledge was not a well balanced r. However, my PCs managed to bypass this encounter entirely, so it was not a problem for our game.

The entire campaign has had excellent worldbuilding and character development. The writers definitely played the long game, with early introductions of characters like Tiadora, Dessiter and Richard Havelyn, as well as setting up Cardinal Thorn as a powerful entity. In this book, those choices really start to pay off. Existing knowledge of their adversaries helped to make the encounters much more personal and interesting. This book was also to fill in a lot of gaps for the players, as they are finally able to see Thorn's plan in its entirety.

There are also a few really great RP opportunities in this book. The scene with Dessiter and Nabarus was wonderfully fun to act out. The opportunity to make Richard Havelyn fall made for a very interesting encounter, where the PCs were able to play mind games with him as they were fighting. Of course, finally getting a shot at Cardinal Thorn also made for interesting RP.

Weaknesses:
There was only one real issue I had running this campaign, and it could very well be a unique problem to my table. The writers make the assumption that the players will not start trying to run the Knot of Thorns until Book 6, after Thorn is already dead. My player were a little over ambitious and essentially considered themselves the new leaders of the knot as soon as the party inquisitor was granted the title of high cardinal. This lead to some awkwardness, since there isn't much in the way of guidance as to how Thorn's various followers react to recruitment attempts while Thorn is still alive. Improvising with what I knew about the NPCs, they were able to recruit Cedrick Malthus early, they managed ruin any chance at a positive relationship with Barnabus Thrane and reached a tenuous agreement with Sakkarot, that he would remain faithful to whichever side emerged victorious. However, it might have been helpful to have a short blurb addressing this issue, since weakening Thorn's network was a pretty reasonable approach for them to take.

There is an appendix at the end of the book with special rules for handling undead players. I was not particularly impressed with these special rules. The rules for the vampire seemed overly convoluted and roundabout to obtain. For my game, I instead used a house rule where our vampire PC gained the vampiric abilities over the course of two levels, in place of those two levels. As for the lich rules, outside of the initial time and gold expenditure, it doesn't seem like there was anything that would make the PC balanced with the rest of the party.

However, since the first complaint is a very small oversight that won't be noticed by a lot of tables and the second is related to supplemental material that is easily ignored, I do not deem either complaint enough to knock a star off the rating.

General Advice:
The biggest advice I can give is to not be afraid to get a little wicked with Thorn. His strategy section explains that he knows the PCs abilities intimately and that you should adjust his tactics and his spells to account for this. If you just try to use Thorn's generic stat block, I promise you he will not end up being the formidable force that he was built up to be for the last five books. Windwall, Anti-Life Shell, Spell Immunity and Protection From Energy (Fire) were all highly useful for keeping my party at bay. I would also recommend going beyond the changes recommended in the strategy block. He has many spells that have 10 minute/level duration and even his 1 min/level buff last 18 minutes. Don't waste time casting these buffs during Time Stop. He knows when the players arrive at the Agathium, so cast there is no reason for him not to be prepared. Also, don't be afraid to play around with his equipment. Essentially, he is sold as the biggest threat your villains have faced yet. Don't be afraid to make him live up to it.

4.5 stars + seal for the turning point of the campaign

4/5 —

The fifth installment of Fire Mountain Games' critically acclaimed evil adventure path is 100 pages long, 1 page front cover, 1 page editorial, 1 page ToC, 1 page SRD, 1 page advertisement, 2 pages of maps of Talingarde (as in each WotW-book) and 1 page back cover, leaving us with a total of 92 pages of content, so let's check this out!

This is a review of the module, so potential players should jump to the conclusion to avoid the vast array of SPOILERS that follow.

All right, still here?

If the module's name has not been ample clue for you, this is the turning point of the campaign: For 4 modules, the villains have been the pawns of Cardinal Adrastus Thorn in his conspiracy to bring down Taligarde. The lich's paranoia has made him turn against the PCs and he will pay, for Asmodeus does not tolerate weakness like the undead's sparing of a paladin. In order to become second to none but the devil, though, the PCs first have to survive and not be suckered in by Thorn's "invitation" to his stronghold: Forewarned, the PCs first act in this module is the necessity to say "no" to Tiadora and her devilish erinyes - something that will result in a rather deadly combat. The first part of the adventure is rather modular and has the PCs plan their usurpation of Thorn's throne while trying to survive his endeavors in ending them. In order to gain Asmodeus favor, they will have to tie up lose ends: If Brigit of the Brijidine still is alive, they will have to eliminate her for Dessiter the contract devil.

Upon completion of this rather deadly task (Brigit's home is no laughing stock), they may have an audience with Naburus, a pit devil and lord of hell! Said devil may use a clever loop-hole in the contract that binds them to Thorn to extract them from his influence as well as potentially making one of them high-priest of Asmodeus! In the meanwhile, Thorn seeks to eliminate them by sending his hamatulan host for them and there are further loose ends that seek to be tied up: Depending on their actions in book 2, the PCs will have to contend and survive Vetra-Kali-Eats-the-Eyes and his retinue and finally get a grand chance:

Their nemesis Richard Thomasson, the paladin that single-handedly almost made their plans fail, the fool that melted Thorns heart out of sentimentality for a love now lost, walks the island of Chargammon. In order to please the lord of the 9th, the PCs must prove themselves, find the paladin, defeat his massive retinue and once and for all put a stop to his meddling. Better yet, for true masters of the dark - the PCs may actually drag the shining knight down, causing him to fall and swear allegiance to Asmodeus!

Of course, in order to defeat a lich, the PCs will have to get a hold of his phylactery and he has hidden it well - in the cave of dread Nythoggr, a cairn linnorm and foe that surpasses even the power of great Chargammon! Worse, the caves of the cairn linnorm are also the home of mad undead spirits like banshees and Ice Elf Dread Wraiths, making the infiltration/crawl a deadly challenge indeed. better yet, the options to infiltrate/use other means of acquiring the phylactery, including smart usage of the potentially existing draconic cohort are all taken into account: After all, who wants to incur the deadly death curse of the linnorm? If they do walk the path of brute force instead of cleverness and ingenuity, the PCs thankfully can escape the very deadly curse via a nearby artifact, but only if they are smart and know how and where to look...

When the next devilish assassin manages to wiggle out of Thorn's command upon him realizing they have his phylactery and instead proposes serving the PCs instead, it should be clear that Thorn's days are few. Only one thing remains for the future masters of Talingarde to do - teleport to the Agathium and stomp out their former mentor. Barricaded in the vast fortress depicted on the cover (which would imho make for a kick-ass metal cd-cover), the lich's paranoia grows, ever increasing. Guarded by armies of rejuvenating undead, the trek to the place could have been awesome, but honestly, it is here the module has its weakest spot: The unforgiving arctic wilderness sounds so awesome, why not have the PCs experience it and slug through Thorn's defenses? Magical Aurora Borealis, the artifact-engine, whatever - there are many good reasons for not opting for the teleport-option. Oh well.

The exploration of the Agathium is exciting - between Thorn playing tricks and using psychological warfare, his defenders are nothing to be scoffed at: From a Frost-Giant jarl (whose bride may become an ally of the villains) to Thorn's own hermit necromancer/crafter (who, again, may become an ally), the challenges awaiting the PCs are numerous - but so are the rewards: The PCs can e.g. make sacrifices to Asmodeus' most unholy altar (detailed with a drop-dead-gorgeous artwork), take control of the arcane engine that facilitates crafting and undead creation via negative energy and, of course, loot Thorn's treasury, which among other things includes Tiadora's true name, making her another potential servant. Speaking of servants: The traitor-general of Talingarde currently also languishes in the Agathium - a nice and convenient way for the PCs to mop up his particular loose end and put a stop to this pompous fop's meddling.

However, not all have turned against Thorn: His fortress is still secured by his own considerable magical might, units of grave knights and a particular nasty surprise: Apart from his fanatically loyal antipaladin champion Wolfram, he also has secured the aid or not one, but two undead dragons to annihilate the PCs - OUCH!

If the PCs manage to brave his false throne room ( a deadly trap indeed) and all his guardians, they will finally come to blows with their erstwhile master and, if they emerge triumphant, be graced with a rain of blood as well as the favor of Asmodeus himself, their only master!

After extensive troubleshooting, we are introduced to the second supplemental article for players who want to become undead: Vampires manage their transformation and the gradual power-gain (alongside vampiric weaknesses) via a progression of 5 feats, an apt payoff. Liches in contrast need only take one feat, but still have to pass the otherwise rather steep requirements for lichdom.
There also are 13 new feats for undead (including swarm-form, enhanced vampiric powers, a tad bit of resistance to sunlight etc.), 6 new magic items especially suitable for undead, 6 new spells (mostly designed to help them fit in with mortals, trap coffins etc.).

The final section of the book, guest-authored by Jason Bulmahn, introduces us to new archetypes: Monks may, as Hands of Tyranny, issue unholy commands (as per the spell) via their unarmed attacks, are particularly adept liars and may evoke crippling pain via a mere touch. Lords o Darkness are Asmodean paladins that gain enchanting options as cruelties and finally, inquisitors may opt to become Torture Masters, experts of extracting information from the helpless. The final new archetype, unfortunately, is the only one I'd truly consider good: The Unholy Barrister (cleric) has a special channeling: He can spend two channel attempts to heal all evil creatures with his negative energy, but only if they swear loyalty to Asmodeus. Now if that won't lead to some badass moments at the table... Furthermore, with so-called soulbound contracts, he may impart his spells to others, granting the class a second complex and extremely cool signature ability.

The final 2 pages are taken up by 9 new feats, which allow you to channel life-force of coup-de-grace'd foes, enhance your unholy spells, ignore pain, come out trumps in negotiations (e.g. planar ally) and also pacts: Pacts make it very hard for you to return from death, since your soul is sworn to hell, but on the basis of the first feat, we get ones that e.g. enhance your sneaking, your divine or arcane power etc.

The pdf also comes with an extra-pdf of key-and numberless maps and handouts that is 6 pages long and covers all locations visited in this module.

Conclusion:
Editing and formatting are very good, though, as the last two installments of WotW, not perfect - I noticed a couple of switched letters and similar typos, though less than in Book III and IV. Layout adheres to the stellar 2-column standard used in previous WotW-installments and is up to the highest demands. The artworks by Michael Clarke are, just like the original cartography, up to the highest standard as well. The pdf comes fully bookmarked, though honestly I would have preferred more bookmarks, especially in the first section of the module, which is very much modular. The pdf comes with aforementioned extra pdf of player maps and handouts as well as a more printer-friendly version.

Author Gary McBride does not disappoint in the fifth installment of WotW - the pay-off, should the PCs manage to brave the vast dangers, is rather satisfying and the change of pace regarding enemy-types as well as the amount of support/trouble-shooting for the DM remains commendable. While not as jarring as the climax of book 4 (about which I complained to no end), book 5 also has a minor weak spot: The fact that there is potential for an epic wilderness-section (something so far completely missing from the whole AP, mind you!) in an undead-infested northern clime. This idea is so cool, the defenses and narrative one could have crafted from the PCs slowly but surely clawing their ways towards the antagonist through his lands could have made for an epicness beyond belief. Instead, the teleport-in-angle, while more common, imho also remains the blander way.

That out of the way, the narrative is otherwise solid, the challenges worthy of the villain's level by now and the potential for the DM to play some nasty tricks with evil creatures is there, making this imho better than book 4.

However, where I ceased to be amazed was with the supplemental information: I never liked the first article on undead PCs and the rules for vampire and lich PCs in my opinion, while working, fall a bit flat: Libris Vampyr by Necromancers from The Northwest did it via a PrC that required an extremely cool ritual every level, driving home not only the gravitas of the transformation, but also its symbology, something absent from this particular tackling of the subject. The new archetypes, with one exception, also left me rather cold, as did the pact feats which imho could use a slight power boost - after all, usually feats have no associated drawbacks and these do.

I wouldn't complain about these, were it not for the distinct impression that their page-count would have been served better by an expansion of the module. That out of the way, let it be known that my complaining is still on the highest level and this is, once again, an excellent adventure. Though not a perfect one. My final verdict will hence remain at 4.5 stars, + seal of approval, but rounded down to 4 for the purpose of this platform.

Endzeitgeist out.

1 to 5 of 6 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Search Thread

Search this Thread:

201 to 250 of 358 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | next > last >>
1 person marked this as a favorite.

I know Gary probably wants to move on to his cool new adventure path now that book 6 is done/submitted to the two editors...

But two requests:

1. Minionquest! I wanna buy it!

2. A book of side quests and optional evil events was mentioned early on as a possibility. I'd love to see additional source material to flesh out all 6 books in a "here is more fun stuff book".
Douglas Muir 406 wrote:
Patrick Kropp wrote:


What does that mean for the release? It´s still not up on drivethru? Gary seems on a vacation (or something).

Gary has a lot on his plate. He doesn't want to leave anyone hanging, and he's trying to finish as fast as he can. But while getting part VI out the door is definitely a high priority, it's not the only thing going on in his world.

He's not going to pull a Nicholas Logue or anything like that. It shouldn't be long now. Be cool.

Doug M.

It is not like we are not patient but sinch it is is mid feb and the book was to be done months ago i beleive we are being cool as possible.

while the books are great the delay is being beyound normal. 2 weeks has pass and still no book . most do not mind waiting but when their is no update on the status. it shows that there is no respect to the gammers. most gammers will wait for months for a good game if they know why it is delayed. Telling us yep the book is done and will be release latter in the week and now 2 weeks has pass.
Maybe i am just impantient but i agree we should get update more.
Douglas Muir 406 wrote:
Patrick Kropp wrote:


What does that mean for the release? It´s still not up on drivethru? Gary seems on a vacation (or something).

Gary has a lot on his plate. He doesn't want to leave anyone hanging, and he's trying to finish as fast as he can. But while getting part VI out the door is definitely a high priority, it's not the only thing going on in his world.

He's not going to pull a Nicholas Logue or anything like that. It shouldn't be long now. Be cool.

Doug M.

I understand that. And as I said in his facebook, I don't care really, I'm only in book II and I have a lot of things to do yet. I also undrstand he could be doing something very impirtant, as he has hinted, and I honestly hope he can pull it off.

But some groups have already finished book V and they are on a halt. I can see those are more in a hurry, and how the delay can be a major setback for tgem. Some of those might think twice before jumping into Throne of Darkness for example. Which is bad for Firemountaingames (and therefore to those who want to see a great success for this company and new, exciting adventures).

Gary should balance carefully how much he can do at the same time and how much he can commit for. FMG is a very small company, with a one-man-army facing all the regular problems of a normal, bigger RPG company.

I hate mobile typing, btw
Aberzanzorax wrote:

I know Gary probably wants to move on to his cool new adventure path now that book 6 is done/submitted to the two editors...

But two requests:

1. Minionquest! I wanna buy it!

2. A book of side quests and optional evil events was mentioned early on as a possibility. I'd love to see additional source material to flesh out all 6 books in a "here is more fun stuff book".

These are both terrific ideas. I'd love to buy them both if they ever get done.

Grand Lodge
1 person marked this as a favorite.
Eric Hinkle wrote:
Aberzanzorax wrote:

I know Gary probably wants to move on to his cool new adventure path now that book 6 is done/submitted to the two editors...

But two requests:

1. Minionquest! I wanna buy it!

2. A book of side quests and optional evil events was mentioned early on as a possibility. I'd love to see additional source material to flesh out all 6 books in a "here is more fun stuff book".

These are both terrific ideas. I'd love to buy them both if they ever get done.

Don't know about the side quests, but those would be nice too. However, Minion Quest is already done, it's just gotta be edited and reformatted into a comprehensive and legibly (ie. it's just notes right now) written copy so that it can be edited and put into a pdf format. He said he was hoping to have something done by April or May for those of us who want to run it at a gaming convention.

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I am eagerly awaiting book 6 myself. Minionquest seems almost necessary if the PC's want to make the most of their followers, so I am eager to get my hands on a copy of that too.

I took one look at the fact that this adventure path was being written by a single man, was slated to go to 20th, and had a 6 month production schedule and knew right then that there was almost no way it would be out within 9 months, much less 6.

Consequently, I knew better than to start until I had a complete A.P. in my hands or at least in PDF.

I must say I really do love this adventure path and cannot wait to run for my own players. I believe it will be truly epic and memorable.
Grand Lodge

My players are no where close to being in this book, but after they broke Timeon and converted him over, and with the release of the Knights of the Inner Sea book, I decided to make a squire for the antipaladin, Wolfram. It was due in part to the players talking about South Park last night, and saying "Wouldn't it be cool if Timmy had a Jimmy to go up against?" So, I made James the Hellish, Squire of Wolfram the Hell Knight. He's a LE human aristocrat 3/weapon bearer squire (fighter) 4/lord of darkness (anti-paladin) 9.

The facebook crowd is slowly starting to turn ugly. Funny, you would think anyone who waited 20+ years for the new Star Wars movies (and face it, we all did) could do a month or four standing on their heads.

All kidding aside though, I hope, for both Fire Mountain Games and Gary's sake, that those editors are just running behind. A delay like this could quite possibly effect the sales of the first Throne of Night module by making GM's basically wait until the entire AP is released before buying. If too many people do this, well it could make things pretty difficult. Think about it. Less Chapter 1-5 sales equals less reviews, less exposure, less word of mouth and way, way less money to operate on. And reviews, popular exposure, and word of mouth are what put Fire Mountain and Way of the Wicked on the map to begin with.
Webstore Gninja Minion
1 person marked this as a favorite.

You should go here if you're looking for some satisfaction to be wicked. :)

I love you Liz :)
Grand Lodge
Weslocke wrote:

The facebook crowd is slowly starting to turn ugly. Funny, you would think anyone who waited 20+ years for the new Star Wars movies (and face it, we all did) could do a month or four standing on their heads.

All kidding aside though, I hope, for both Fire Mountain Games and Gary's sake, that those editors are just running behind. A delay like this could quite possibly effect the sales of the first Throne of Night module by making GM's basically wait until the entire AP is released before buying. If too many people do this, well it could make things pretty difficult. Think about it. Less Chapter 1-5 sales equals less reviews, less exposure, less word of mouth and way, way less money to operate on. And reviews, popular exposure, and word of mouth are what put Fire Mountain and Way of the Wicked on the map to begin with.

Yeah, I saw them getting rather heated. I too agree that it's quite likely that their sales are going to be hurting a bit until at least the first two books are released for Thrones. Heck, it's hurting now. I've read in a couple of places that some people are so upset about the lateness of the last two books that they're actually sharing the books via torrents just to spite them. I'm hoping that's not actually true, and that people aren't that petty, but some people are easily angered.

Thankfully this is finally released, but it might be too little too late, even with their computer crash being the main cause of the delays. Trust is hard to gain, but very easy to lose.
Shadow Lodge
Weslocke wrote:
Funny, you would think anyone who waited 20+ years for the new Star Wars movies (and face it, we all did) could do a month or four standing on their heads.

To be fair, to be comparable with the Star Wars prequels, book six would have to be a bunch of photos of Gary flipping off the camera, along with excerpts of the "best" of FATAL.

People need not worry about us. In fact, sales have been steady over our period of finishing Book Six.and increasing actually across all sales outlets.

In fact, dealing with the barrage of people discovering "Way of the Wicked" and trying to answer their many questions/concerns/etc. has been a major source of the delay.

Anyways, I'm glad its out and now we can get back on schedule, producing a book every two months with "Throne of Night". Thanks, everyone, for your patience.

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
Kthulhu wrote:
Weslocke wrote:
Funny, you would think anyone who waited 20+ years for the new Star Wars movies (and face it, we all did) could do a month or four standing on their heads.
To be fair, to be comparable with the Star Wars prequels, book six would have to be a bunch of photos of Gary flipping off the camera, along with excerpts of the "best" of FATAL.

ROFL! Now I want to know how you stat up Jar Jar Binks!

But I am thrilled that the last book was out; and I'm glad to hear Mr McBride's good news about their sales.

Looking forward to reading Book 6 & getting 'Throne of Night' for hopefully more wicked goodness. Thanks to WotW, I have this idea of Asmodean dwarves conquering the Underdark...
Fire Mountain Games wrote:

People need not worry about us. In fact, sales have been steady over our period of finishing Book Six.and increasing actually across all sales outlets.

In fact, dealing with the barrage of people discovering "Way of the Wicked" and trying to answer their many questions/concerns/etc. has been a major source of the delay.

Anyways, I'm glad its out and now we can get back on schedule, producing a book every two months with "Throne of Night". Thanks, everyone, for your patience.

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

Those are really good news.

Throne of Night could be half as good as WotW, and I'd still nominate it as the second best AP ever.

It's absolutely normal that your first attempts into freelancing and bussiness ownership are a bit messy. Things aren't easy for small companies, but you have what is most necessary for success: quality work. In marketing and enterprise managing, we say every mistake made is something to learn. I'm pretty sure you won't have all your work in a computer without a Back-up again, for example :). Those are painful experiences that companies need to cross and suffer, in order to thrive and learn. Your company has started really well. In your first installment, you have been highly (and deservedly) appraised by critics, and the "mouth to mouth marketing" has also been high. That's very good. The fact that you have counted with help from heavyweights like Jason Bulhman is testament to that.
Focus, hard work, and measurable goals, and you are right on track :)

I've got a concern about the Contract. I mention it in Book III thread too, but probably belongs here better.

One of my players found another loophole in the contract

Spoiler:
While re-reading the contract, one of the players guessed the loophole (if Cardinal Adrastus Thorn stops to be High priest, the contract is no longer valid).
However, another one found a bigger loophole. And a loophole that does not require really that Naburus removes the Cardinal Status.

Bassically, he said "if no longer being Cardinal Adrastus Thorn, High priest of Asmodeus in Talingare, renders the contract invalid, then the contract is already invalid. Because he is not named Adrastus Thorn, his name is Samuel Havelyn."

I think he got it in the nail.
1 person marked this as a favorite.
gustavo iglesias wrote:

I've got a concern about the Contract. I mention it in Book III thread too, but probably belongs here better.

One of my players found another loophole in the contract
** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
When Adrastus Thorn returned from the dead and was recreated, he legally changed his name. This is in accordance with the precepts of Infernal Law as decreed by his most August and Infernal Majesty, Asmodeus, Lord of the Nine Hells. The contract is valid.

Or at least, that's how I'd handle it.

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

I like that solution a lot, Gary.
I'd do that.
I'd like to reward my players somehow, for discovering the loophole so soon, I'll see how I do it.
Grand Lodge
1 person marked this as a favorite.

I tell ya, it's always about the timing. Anyone else seen the cover and read the synopsis of the upcoming chronicles book Chronicle of the Righteous? Looks pretty nasty for the bad guys if you have those things ready to take them down. I might just have to get a copy just to give my players a bit more of a fight.

Book Five is also back in stock! Also, all old back orders should be in the process of being fulfilled! Thanks for everyone's patience and thanks for supporting "Way of the Wicked".

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

Regarding Paths to Undead PCs

Anyone develop any rules or a path to becoming a Graveknight? I picked up Undead Revisited and it sets forth a process, but I'm trying to think of how to adjust/tweak that for use by a PC to keep them balanced (a la the paths for becoming a lich or vampire).

Off-hand, I'm thinking the easiest way is to treat it almost exactly like the lich (with an increased cost for the armor) and taking a feat, but I'm curious if there were other thoughts about this.

I'd use the lich as a basis too
Grand Lodge

Honestly, I'd make it into a prestige class like Necromancers of the Northwest did for the lich. It's what I'm using for instead of the feat progression. Just make it 3/4 BAB, d8, and remove the spellcasting progression.

This way the PCs can be as much or as little of the creature as they want/require.
kevin_video wrote:
Honestly, I'd make it into a prestige class like Necromancers of the Northwest did for the lich...

That's... not bad. Huh. I worry the cost is a little low -- become a lich by the PrC's seventh level at 5000gp per level (35k versus 120k). On the other hand, you're investing character levels into it, so maybe it's a fair trade-off. A similar idea could work for the graveknight.

Worth thinking about. Thanks for mentioning it, Kevin.
Grand Lodge
SnowHeart wrote:
kevin_video wrote:
Honestly, I'd make it into a prestige class like Necromancers of the Northwest did for the lich...

That's... not bad. Huh. I worry the cost is a little low -- become a lich by the PrC's seventh level at 5000gp per level (35k versus 120k). On the other hand, you're investing character levels into it, so maybe it's a fair trade-off. A similar idea could work for the graveknight.

Worth thinking about. Thanks for mentioning it, Kevin.

Not a problem. Don't forget that you're also losing spell levels as well for taking the PrC, where as you're only losing feats the other way for the lich. And with the graveknight, you wouldn't gain any spell levels so it's got even less value for an anti-paladin or anyone else that casts spells. It really makes the players really have to think about whether or not what they lose is worth giving up. Especially, say for a wizard, who wanted those 9th level spells.

@Snowheart

Love the idea about the Graveknight. I'm thinking of having one of PC's simply become this if and when he falls in battle (it happened once, in the Horn, and even then he pulled through). It's too fitting for the character. And I'm not telling the player about it, because I think that will make it more fun.
Scarab Sages

I'm giving my players the option to become a Graveknight by investing 2 feats, making their armor (which will have a large gp cost to it).

I see the Graveknight Template being half way between the Lich and the Vampire.

The Lich gets a bunch of abilities and some stat increases, but no feats = 1 feat + phylactery construction.
The Vampire gets a bunch of abilities, some stat increases and 6 feats = 5 feats.

Since the Graveknight gets a bunch of abilities, some stat increases and 4 feats, I figure it will require an investment of at least 2 feats + some time and money (aka the armor).

I'm also allowing them to invest feats into becoming: 1/2 Dragon, 1/2 Fiendish, Advanced, Giant or 1/2 Celestial (although they would have to be really twisted to take the 1/2 Celestial route).
If my players find a template they really want beyond those, they can talk to me about.

To make my villains more epic, they have the option to save their 3 re-rolls per session until they can buy Tier 1/Tier 2/Tier 3 ability for (9pts each, but requires the Tier before it).
Tier 1 are roughly equivalent to traits.
Tier 2 are roughly equivalent to feats.
Tier 3 are roughly equivalent to a +2 stat boost.

Once they have unlocked a Tier 3, for 20pts they can buy any feat they qualify for, or use it to buy a template feat.

John, that makes a lot of sense. I was thinking of just one feat plus the cost/time, but two feats might be more appropriate.

One of the internal debates I've been having, though, is what I see as the somewhat static nature of the Graveknight's armor. Once the Graveknight becomes undead, he basically *is* his armor. I don't think he can take it off. (At least, that's my interpretation of a graveknight.) So, unless he's destroyed and has to rejuvenate (1d10 days), there is no way for the armor to be further enchanted* by a wizard/cleric. Add to that that the armor must be something he can afford at 9th-11th level (at least under the process described in Undead Revisited), and I see a potentially serious tradeoff for becoming a graveknight. (In contrast, a lich can change his robes, bracers, etc.)

* = On the other hand, there's no particular rule that a magic item crafter has to enchant armor while it's not being worn (that I'm aware of)... and an undead creature doesn't need to eat or sleep, so I guess he could just sit there for a month. So, maybe that's not as much of an obstacle?

These are the kinds of things I go back and forth on, and I usually err on the side of GM's caution (aka inflexibility). Thus, I really appreciate you guys sharing your thoughts on this.
Scarab Sages

SnowHeart,
Well for 9-11th the PC should be roughly 40k-80k for overall wealth... but they are villains, so maybe they have some increased funding from looting all the adventurers who have hit the Horn, or increased their reign of terror by hitting a moneylender in Farholde (or a lot of criminal enterprises).

Even with 40k (ie 1/2 of the level 11 WBL) if he has a party caster, he might still be ample to get +4 armor... which would still be pretty good... just finding the time to enchant it might be a bit tough (until they hit Book 3).
Grand Lodge

I knew this adventure path was going to be deadly, so I changed the scenario to Slow progression and gave them all access to one template at the beginning that was +1 CR. This way they had a better shot at surviving. Most of them took Advanced, but a couple took an XP hit, and went with half-fiend for +2 CR or half-dragon for +2 CR. They're trailing in XP compared to the rest of the group, but they're keeping up. This saves them having to invest in the feats. It's unlikely they'll be 20 HD by the end of the game because of our slow progression, but I'm also doing all of the side quests too, so they won't be hurting either. I'm using the suggestion from the Advanced Races Guide and treating them as monstrous characters.

I did a quick search on this thread (trying to avoid spoilers) and my question didn't seem to appear so I'll as it. It's a rules question, but it specifically relates to content in this book so I put it here.

I'm in a WotW group on the site and a newer player made me aware of the new archetypes found in this book. I'm playing an anti-paladin, so had a peek at the Lord of Darkness archetype. It looks pretty cool, so I started thinking about directions I could take the character, until I found something a bit odd.

The "Aura of Obedience" ability mentions: "if he demoralizes a living creature within 10 feet, and exceeds the DC by 10 or more, he may issue one command to the target, as per the spell."

Two questions came to me from this:
1) Is the command a free action that occurs as a part of the Intimidate, or is it a standard action that occurs after the intimidate? I'm figuring it's merely a part of the Intimidate, should it pass the +10 DC, but I wanted to make sure.

2) This one's a bit cheezy, and I'll likely not go down this route, but I have to ask. If someone has Dazzling Display and uses it while surrounded by enemies within 10'. If the Intimidate beats most or all of them by 10, are they all affected by a command or just one individual of choice?

Not official but the way I'd rule it:

#1: It would be part of the demoralize action, not a separate standard action.

#2: IMO, No. The dazzling display is a separate ability. The command comes from the aura ability, not the feat. But, taken literally as written, I could see someone ruling the other way.

I'm thinking of tweaking Cardinal Thorn a little and would love it if other GMs could take a look at the following and provide some feedback.

Background:
At least one of my players has commented quite plainly that he finds undead such as vampires and liches to be tired cliches of villains. Regardless of whether I agree, the party has only JUST met Thorn in book 1 and already suspects he is a lich. I'd like to throw them a curve-ball, so I've entered Thorn into Hero Lab but made one major change.

Instead of a lich, he's now a Worm that Walks. I figure this requires only a modest tweaking of his background story, he still has a sort of "undead" flair (having died but being reanimated), and it still allows him to take full advantage of his spellcaster background.

Revised Stats:
Cardinal Thorn CR 19
XP 204800
Male Human Worm That Walks Cleric 18
LE Medium Vermin (augmented humanoid, human)
Init +9; Senses blindsight, darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +34
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 43, touch 27, flat-footed 38 (+11 armor, +5 Dex, +5 natural, +4 deflection)
hp 183 (18d8+90); fast healing 19
Fort +20, Ref +15, Will +23
Defensive Abilities copy cat (su) (11/day), master's illusion (18 rounds/day) (dc 27), worm that walks traits; DR 15/—; Immune critical hits, disease, flanking, paralysis, poison, sleep
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee +3 Glamered Adamantine Morningstar +20/+15/+10 (1d8+7/x2) and
. . Slam (Discorporate) +17 (1d6+6 plus grab/x2)
Ranged Ranged Touch Attack +18/+13/+8 (As Spell/x2)
Special Attacks discorporate, scythe of evil (9 rds) (3/day), squirming embrace (4d6+6) (dc 24), touch of evil (9 rds) (11/day)
Spell-Like Abilities Copy Cat (Su) (11/day), Master's Illusion (18 rounds/day) (DC 27), Touch of Evil (9 rds) (11/day)
Cleric Spells Prepared (CL 18):
9 (2/day) Implosion (DC 27), Time Stop, Summon Monster IX
8 (4/day) Spell Immunity, Greater, Fire Storm (DC 26), Invisibility, Mass, Orb of the Void (DC 26), Stormbolts (DC 26)
7 (4/day) Scrying, Greater (DC 25), Resurrection, Destruction (x2) (DC 25), Screen
6 (5/day) Antilife Shell, Harm (x2) (DC 24), Dispel Magic, Greater, Blade Barrier (DC 24), Mislead
5 (5/day) Spell Resistance, False Vision, Flame Strike (x2) (DC 23), True Seeing, Forbid Action, Greater (DC 23)
4 (6/day) Divine Power, Giant Vermin, Air Walk, Confusion (DC 22), Freedom of Movement, Fleshworm Infestation (DC 22), Tongues
3 (6/day) Wrathful Mantle (DC 21), Protection from Energy, Nondetection, Prayer, Magic Circle against Good, Deeper Darkness, Vision of Hell (DC 21)
2 (6/day) Spiritual Weapon, Resist Energy (x2), Zone of Truth (DC 20), Invisibility, Eagle's Splendor, Undetectable Alignment (DC 20)
1 (6/day) Divine Favor, Shield of Faith, Entropic Shield, Detect Chaos, Detect Good, Protection from Good, Protection from Good
0 (at will) Bleed (DC 18), Read Magic, Detect Magic, Light
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 18, Dex 20, Con 20, Int 20, Wis 26, Cha 18
Base Atk +13; CMB +17 (+25 Grappling); CMD 48
Feats Channel Smite, Combat Casting, Devil's Pact - 3/day +2 to d20 roll, Diehard, Extra Channel, Greater Spell Penetration, Improved Channel, Improved Initiative, Priest's Pact - +2 CL, Selective Channeling, Spell Penetration
Traits Suspicious
Skills Acrobatics +4, Bluff +25, Climb +3, Diplomacy +25, Escape Artist +4, Fly +4, Knowledge (local) +17, Knowledge (nobility) +17, Knowledge (planes) +26, Knowledge (religion) +26, Perception +34, Ride +4, Sense Motive +38, Spellcraft +26, Stealth +33, Swim +3; Racial Modifiers +8 Perception, +8 Sense Motive, +8 Stealth
Languages Common, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Goblin, Infernal
SQ aura, cleric channel negative energy 9d6 (9/day) (dc 25), domains (evil, trickery), spontaneous casting
Other Gear +5 Mithral Breastplate, +3 Glamered Adamantine Morningstar, Ranged Touch Attack, Amulet of natural armor +5, Belt of physical might (Str & Dex +4), Cloak of resistance +4, Headband of mental superiority +4 (Knowledge [plan, Ring of protection +4, Robe of blending, You have no money!
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Aura (Ex) The Cleric has an aura corresponding to his deity's alignment.
Blindsight (30 feet) Sense things and creatures without seeing them.
Channel Smite Channel energy can be delivered through a Smite attack.
Cleric Channel Negative Energy 9d6 (9/day) (DC 25) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
Cleric Domain (Evil) Granted Powers: You are sinister and cruel, and have wholly pledged your soul to the cause of evil.
Cleric Domain (Trickery) Granted Powers: You are a master of illusions and deceptions. Bluff, Disguise, and Stealth are class skills.
Combat Casting +4 to Concentration checks to cast while on the defensive.
Copy Cat (Su) (11/day) (Sp) Create a single mirror image duplicate
Damage Reduction (15/-) You have Damage Reduction against all attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Diehard You are stable and can choose how to act when at negative Hp.
Discorporate (Su) A worm that walks can collapse into a shapeless swarm of worms as a free action. All held, worn, and carried items fall and its Strength score drops to 1. The worm that walks functions as a true swarm while discorporated, with a reach of 0 feet (its
Fast Healing 19 (Ex) You heal damage every round if you have > 1 Hp.
Grab: Slam (Large) (Ex) You can start a grapple as a free action if you hit with the designated weapon.
Immunity to Critical Hits You are immune to Critical Hits
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Immunity to Flanking You are immune to flanking.
Immunity to Paralysis You are immune to paralysis.
Immunity to Poison You are immune to poison.
Immunity to Sleep You are immune to sleep effects.
Master's Illusion (18 rounds/day) (DC 27) (Sp) Use veil as a spell-like ability.
Robe of blending 1/day can assume the form of another humanoid creature, as if using alter self
Scythe of Evil (9 rds) (3/day) (Su) A melee weapon you are holding becomes unholy
Selective Channeling Exclude targets from the area of your Channel Energy.
Spontaneous Casting The Cleric can convert stored spells into Cure or Inflict spells.
Squirming Embrace (4d6+6) (DC 24) (Ex) If a worm that walks grapples a foe, as a swift action, it can cause a swarm of worms to squirm over the grappled creature. These worms deal automatic swarm damage with no attack roll needed (see the table below). If a creature takes damage from the
Touch of Evil (9 rds) (11/day) (Sp) With a melee touch attack, target is sickened and counted as good-aligned for the purpose of [Evil] spells.
Worm that Walks Traits A worm that walks has no discernible anatomy, and is not subject to critical hits or flanking. Reducing a worm that walks to 0 hit points causes it to discorporate (see below) - a worm that walks at 0 hit points is staggered, and one at negative hit

Hero Lab® and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Publishing, LLC®, and are used under license.


Questions and Issues:
First, in a general sense, what do you think? Workable? Too much? Not enough? Completely inconsistent with the AP, or any small tweaks to the backstory you'd recommend? Hints you might drop as the AP progresses?

As calculated by HeroLab, this is only resulting in a CR19 creature, rather than CR20, even though the CR adjustment for liches and worms that walk is the same (+2). I've even increased the amount of gear he's carrying, as it's not even close to being half of what a PC would have at level 18, much less CR 20. Is this just a function of Hero Lab or do folks have any suggestions for getting the CR up another point without creating an unstoppable foe? OR... does it relate to the next question?

The ability scores needed a little fudging, as Thorn went from a -- Con undead into a creature that did need a constitution score. As Charisma was no longer used for hitpoint purposes, I dropped that slightly and put his Con score up to something a bit more respectable. He's still insanely powerful, something equivalent to a 42 point stat buy, but I don't think it's inconsistent with what is originally written. Perhaps this is what gives the CR that additional +1?

Finally, I haven't made any changes to his original feats or equipment (except for the additional of an amulet of natural armor and a mace). Thus, I haven't done anything to optimize him for the new template's abilities, as it seems the feats were structured around being a spellcaster rather than as a lich. Any thoughts on that point, or should I leave them "as is"?

Thanks a ton!

Oh, now that would indeed be different. I can even imagine Asmodeus' promise to him: "In life or in death, you will become invincible, and you will rule millions."
Eric Hinkle wrote:
*snip*

LOL! I hadn't thought of that, but yes! Poor Thorn!

Grand Lodge

I think it's fine. It's probably Hero Lab that's giving you the CR 19. Remember, it's CR -1 for having NPC wealth and NPC stats. If you've got PC wealth and stats then it's -0 CR. Hero Lab probably didn't factor that part in if you've made the wealth and stat equivalent.

My Adrastus can't be a

Spoiler:
Worm that Walks, because the PC already know he is a Lich.
I'm concerned about Adrastus survivality, though. He is pretty much a walking deas (pun intended)
My players can do 170 hp damage against Armor 33 in one round. I mean, any of them can. I'm specially concerned about the Inquisitor archer, as he can win the Initiative easily, and will chew through DR (with clustered shots), and 170 damage vs AC 33 is quite easy for him. He can also shot from round 1, so you can't really use minions to block the path, like you'll do with a pouncing eidolon.

So I'm thinking about changing him a bit. I guess the first step is to raise his AC into the mid 40s, at least. Any suggestions?

I think he really needs to take Quickened Spell, and some of the Lich-only feats, too. Raising the DC on Implosion might also be needed.

Also, at the very least Wolfang should, and would, fight besides him.

Also, instead of Summon Monster IX, he will use Gate, to bring a Purogaus (an Inmolation Devil)

Btw, I have similar concerns about Nythoggr..

Spoiler:
I plan to give him Advanced template, as I do with most creatures, but also some Holy Aura spell while near the obelisk, or similar protection stuff
Also, I'll change his DR to Cold Iron + Good, at least that will mean something (any +3 weapon counts as cold iron, and all weapons are at least +3 by now, change Lightning Reflexes for Combat Reflexes, and removing Blind Fighting (which is pointless in a creature with true seeing) for something useful, like Toughness.

Ok, I have found the Templates for Nythoggr.

He'll be an Advanced Giant Boreal Terror Cairn Linnorm.

That gives him +14 Str, +4 Dex, +10 Con +4 Wis and Cha, +1d6 cold damage, cold inmunity, aura of Fear (DC 33), and Colossal Size. Even leaving the feats as they are in a regular Linnorm (no Combat Reflexes), the old beast is now really a Terror to Behold.

I'd make the obelisk just giving him Cover while he is coiling around it, no need for further buffing I think.

He'll be something like

+46 AC, 400 hp, +32 bite for 4d8+20 plus poison, +32 claws for 2d8+20, +27 tail for 4d6+10 plus grab, CMB 48, and the Breath Weapon, Fear and Poison DC will go around DC 33.
Grand Lodge

@gustavo iglesias --

For Thorn, I've changed some of his wealth around, and given him a bunch more. Gave him a bunch of scrolls of Summon Monster XI, and will have him readied to do a Time Stop (that will be DM fiat maximized) where he'll just continually summon. That should take care of some of their resources. Also, I'm going to add in that Grigori made Thorn a simulacrum scroll a long time ago, and it's time to finally activate that. The PCs will think it's the real deal, and once they've taken out the weaker version, then the real fight will begin.

And don't forget that increasing the linnorm's stats will also increase the curse. That's the only reason I'm not increasing any of this stuff. I know full well my PCs would never be able to do anything about that save. Granted the obelisk will be cure that, but you'd need PCs will a really good knowledge check. Although, your PCs could probably pull it off.

I've done the Simulacrum Lich trick so many times to this players that it is already a Cliché for them :P. I'm going to change this time, to bring a bit of variety (and because he's a cleric too).

Unless he has a reason to prebuff (like he is scrying them right then, and the PC aren't using any "false vision" spell), I'd rather use the rounds during Time Stop to cast buffs to protect himself. I'd give him scrolls of Time Stop so he can properly cast every single spell he needs :P.
I'm just checking that, being a cleric, he could use a light shield +4 for an easy +5 AC. The feat that increase Nat Armor to 8 is good too, and he can take a +4 nat armor amulet by giving up the belt of STR and DEX

Yes, the curse will go around DC 33 too. That's a very high DC, but: several characters are inmune to the curse (lich, vampire). Several others can survive for a lot of years (elves for example). The PC have already a "fountain of youth" in the Baroneess shrine. And the PC have enough resources to remove the curse, even without the auto-success remove curse from the obelisk.

The need to buff Nythoggr depends only on your party damage per round. If the party isn't able to do a huge amount of damage per turn, then the regular linnorm might be ok. Although he is only a CR 18 monster vs a full party. But if the party is just slightly optimized, they can utterly destroy a creature that brings so little beside AC, Hp and damage. Any decent archer will obliterate him in seconds.
Grand Lodge

Yeah, there's no archers in my party. They're all melee based. I've made sure they at least have bows on them, but no one ever uses them. Everyone's Dex sucks in my party, short of the gnome ninja.

For Thorn, I switched out on feat for Quicken Channel (uses two channels as a move action) so he can still do up his standard action to cast.
As for the shield, I gave him an animated one because I houseruled it back to the 3.5 version (the Pathfinder version I made into a +1 property). If you put the Advanced template on him that'd help out a bit as well.
I've only ever seen the simulacrum aspect of a wizard ever used in a game once so thankfully that won't be a cliche for my group.

The Simulacrum Lich is wonderful. It worked great for my players the first times I used it. Also it's very "lich-like", kind of contingency plan (pun intended). I vow I'd make a lich called "Victor von Doom" who will use thousands of simulacrums :P

Quicken Channel is a good Idea, really. That, Quicken Spell, and maybe a Conductive Mace, and he's good to go. Add a high level demon and his bodyguard Paladin, and that's an epic fight!
Grand Lodge
gustavo iglesias wrote:

The Simulacrum Lich is wonderful. It worked great for my players the first times I used it. Also it's very "lich-like", kind of contingency plan (pun intended). I vow I'd make a lich called "Victor von Doom" who will use thousands of simulacrums :P

Quicken Channel is a good Idea, really. That, Quicken Spell, and maybe a Conductive Mace, and he's good to go. Add a high level demon and his bodyguard Paladin, and that's an epic fight!

Putting in a demon because he fell out of favor with the devils? That'd really upset Asmodeus. Give the PCs even more reason to take him down too.

Love the idea of Victor von Doom. You should totally do that this time too. Maybe make a homebrew item to give them all mirror image as well.

After giving him max wealth, and using various tomes/manuals my Throne has AC 48. Should be quite the tough time for my PCs. By that point I'm thinking a couple of them will have touch abilities to get passed the high AC. At least I'm hoping. Otherwise I'll have to bring him down a bit.

A shield, amulet of nat armor, the feat which improves his AC, and he is already AC 48 I think. There's a mistake in his stat, a mithril Breast plate should let +5 dex bonus. With templates he could be higher.

On Thorn...

Spoiler:
Subsequent to my above post about a revised-Thorn, I also added the Quicken Channel feat. In a fight with a BBEG, you don't need someone who is going to be able to survive traipsing through a dungeon. You need someone who can dish out a lot of damage quickly (enough to scare the crap out of the players without unfairly overpowering them for their level). Is he likely to use a standard action to channel energy? No. But if he can quicken it? Oh yes. Who cares if it's twice the cost -- if he's unlikely to use the ability at all as a standard action, it goes from being nigh useless to suddenly very feasible. (All rhetorical; I'm just agreeing that it's definitely an improvement to the character.)

On the scrolls of Summon and Time Stop... Some nice thoughts there. I was just going to GM-fiat that he had been scrying and preparing for the party, but several scrolls of Time Stop is a less ham-fisted way to get all of those cleric buffs into place, and entirely consistent with the then-Thorn's paranoid personality.

And his armor class is easily increased to higher levels, going straight to the old argument about clerics being better tanks than fighters. Depending on what my players are doing at that point, I may also have to increase his AC. I've also spent time working on his spell selection, assuming he has tailored his spells for a fight with the Ninth Knot. One of the spells I'm likely going to have him cast is Frightful Aspect, which also gives a nice boost to Armor Class along with a bunch of other bonuses. I'm not wild about it being an 8th level spell, but there are always tradeoffs.

On Nythoggr...

Spoiler:
That's a nice use of templates. I'm going to have to keep that in mind. As it is, my players do not have a very optimized party and I worry about their endurance. But if that changes (particularly as they accumulate minions and undead), I may use that idea.
1 person marked this as a favorite.

Well, the PC have already been named Cardinal. A few changes from the book.

Spoiler:
The PC went to the Throne of Brigitte of the Brijidine. That's the "price" Naburu has to gift one player with the Title of Cardinal. They were teleported to the entrance. Once there, they saw a camp of knights in the entrance. The PC see the banners of Mitra, the Knights of Alleryion, and House Havelin!!. How can it be possible? The infiltrate the camp, disguised as other knights of Alleryon. They asked the guards and discovered they were there in diplomatic mission. Queen Bellinda wanted help from some fire spirit who lived inside. The PC quickly killed every knight, in a fast slaughter. They went inside, following the paladin and the Sons of Balantyne. They found the three survivors, with 4 archer knights, ready to fight. The Magus cast a quickened dimensional door, positioning the rogue and antipaladin in close combat, and then they proceeded to slaughter the paladin. Despite his high AC, he died in a round. However, the wizard, using Stormbolts and coldstrike, did heavy damage, and the cleric, with a quickened breath of life, and a heal plus move action healing wave (quickened chanelling), took the paladin back to life.
The Wizard did another stormbolt, and some PC were shot by the archers (with manyshot, rapid fire, and ranged challenge, they did huge amount of damage to the Magus, who almost died). However, the fight was over in a couple of rounds, with the PC killing the Paladin and the wizard, but capturing the Cleric. A good dominate from the vampire, and the Cleric was controlled. They thought about raising the Paladin, using the dominated Cleric (a great idea, indeed). Befor that, they went inside and fought Brigitte, which had 3 elder elementals with her (And was protected by a Blur, due to the lava's heat. Not that it mattered. The Antipaladin did like 150hp in the charge (with a crit), and then a single attack from the rogue, and the eidolon's pounce, killed her in a matter of seconds.

Then Dessiter appeared. They discused about the chances to transform sir Richard in an Asmodean antipaladin. In the meanwhile, they were attacked by Zaerebos, which followed the scrict letter of his contract. Amusing part, the Player liked it a lot. After a bit of Roleplaying, they managed to break sir Richard's soul, which is now black as coal.

They also went to Barnabus Thrane, who sent a Sending Spell to "the Cardinal" and was received by one of the players (the actual Cardinal). They explained them the new situation. While surprised about Thorne's betrayal, he is ultimately loyal to hell. Seeing as truth that the PC are now the heads of Asmodean church in Talingare, he follows his duty and obey the PC.

They learn a bit about Caern Linnorms, and they discover that Nyggorth is a creature of Terror and Darkness.
We left the session there. Next week, the PC are going to face Nyggorth and his dungeon. Then they should attack the Agathium.

Wow. Just Wow.

The PC went against my increased Linorm. And...

Spoiler:
he went down in one round. It was AC 46, 420hp, and big aura of terror. Like it matters...

The Linorm started with a big breath weapon. But all the PC had Death Ward and Protection from Elements. They pretty much ignored it. The Summoner summoned a few monsters, placed to flank. Then the Magus did a Force Hook and full round attack, with a quickneed maximized empowered intensified shocking grasp, which not only hit... it crit'ed. Including everything, he did 278 damage in one round.
Then it was the Inquisitor's turn. He was able to hit the AC 46 with 3+, including all buffs (like Greater heroism, battle accumen, haste, flanking, divine power...). He did another 275 damage. And the Giant Advanced Boreal Terror Cairn Linnorm died in a fight that lasted 6 seconds...

We did a few extra combats, which weren't even a challenge (including 2 astradaemons and 2 derghodaemons), and then the PC went to the Agathium.

They found the (improved) Frost Giant King, and 4 (improved) frost Giants. The summoner casted Maze on the 528hp AC 30 Jotunblood went into a dimiensional pocket which he can only get free with a 20, while the rest of his retinue was destroyed. The Summoner conjured 4 succubus, which casted charm monster on them. The vampire dominated other, and the rest were destroyed.

We left the game there, with the King in the maze.

I thought 420hp and AC 46 would make for a long fight. But clearly, it wasn't enough. I'll have to increase Thorne's stat
Grand Lodge
gustavo iglesias wrote:

Wow. Just Wow.

The PC went against my increased Linorm. And...

** spoiler omitted **

I thought 420hp and AC 46 would make for a long fight. But clearly, it wasn't enough. I'll have to increase Thorne's stat

You players must be crazy awesome min-maxers. I know my group and even the Friday group I belong to that's ECL level 21 right now couldn't have taken on that beast in that short amount of time. I am in awe.

201 to 250 of 358 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Paizo / Product Discussion / Way of the Wicked—Book #5: The Devil My Only Master (PFRPG) All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.