Slumbering Tsar Saga (PFRPG) PDF

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The Sleeper Awakes!
At last, after languishing in its crypt for an age, the secrets of the slumbering city of Tsar burst forth in all their macabre glory. Poured forth from the eldritch furnaces and crucibles of the Necromancer and Orcus himself comes Frog God Games bringing you at long last The Slumbering Tsar Saga.

Something Stirs in the City of Evil
Over the distant northern hills, beyond The Camp, and past the Desolation stand the pitted walls of Tsar. A hundred armies have crushed themselves against this bulwark in futile attempts to breach the city. Even the combined might of the Heavens and Earth were unable to break through in the final battle of Tsar. So why was the city suddenly abandoned on the verge of victory, and what waits for those foolish enough to enter the Temple-City of Orcus?

The Black Gates Await
Only the bravest and most powerful of heroes dare the depths of the Desolation and live to tell of it. But what happens when they penetrate that blasted landscape and look upon the gates of the very center of evil on the earth. Can even heroes of such renown breach the Walls of Death and live?

The Slumbering Tsar Saga began its journey years ago as a single mega-adventure for the masters of Third Edition rules and First Edition feel, then became a trilogy of adventures, then a trilogy of mega-adventures, and now finally comes to you as a monthly series culminating in a massive book with over a half million words of pure First Edition-style adventure. Updated to the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game to accommodate today’s audience of the classic fantasy roleplaying games, The Slumbering Tsar Saga brings you 14 chapters, each chapter the size of a full adventure in its own right (30-50 pages), but in the Hardcover compilation (and NOT in the PDF) you will get something you can't get anywhere else—the final fifteenth chapter!

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Are there errors or omissions in this product information? Got corrections? Let us know at store@paizo.com.

FGGSTSE


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A massive book that's worth every dollar

5/5

Disclaimer: I purchased a physical copy of this book and got the PDF with it.

Okay, before we go anywhere, we need to make one thing clear - The Slumbering Tsar Saga is not an Adventure Path. There is a plot here, but it's more of a setting than anything else, a reason for why things are the way they are. This book is better described as an adventure setting - if Rappan Athuk is the ultimate dungeon crawl, then Slumbering Tsar is the ultimate ruined city crawl. (For a city adventure taking place somewhere that's still fully active, you'll want to look at The Blight, forthcoming from Frog God Games.)

The series starts off in The Desolation, the ugly wasteland that was once a battlefield as the forces of light assaulted Tsar. Most notably, players are quickly introduced to The Camp, which is the safest place for them to rest on excursions throughout the area. (Note that "safest" does not actually mean "safe"... just not quite as dangerous as everywhere else). Before the players can even get into the city, though, there's danger and death to be had. In the Lost Lands Campaign Setting, Tsar was not the site of a skirmish or a battle - it was a war, with the unholy city besieged by a force of over 140,000 (including outsiders, representatives from many species, and a significant number of the world's heroes). Great powers were used by both sides... and the ruins left behind are what the players have to make their way through. One way or another, everywhere they go they'll see the remnants of battle - from storms of deadly bone dust to an enormous chaos rift, players could spend quite a few sessions just trudging around and learning what happened.

Sooner or later, though, they'll want to start making forays into Tsar itself - and while the city may be ruined, it's far from deserted. There are multiple dungeon-sized regions players can stumble through just by walking around (and indeed, they'll have to if they actually want to get into the Temple of Orcus, which is massive even by Frog God Games' standards (comprising over 400 locations). There are waaaaaay too many things here to even begin covering all of them in detail - suffice it to say that if your players enjoy seeing what's in the next building and exploring the world they're in, this book will not disappoint. (If you prefer a more structured adventure, you can trim out some of the locations and insert a plot of your choosing. The book provides a very good mechanism for delivering information.)

Following the three main sandbox adventures is a bunch of extra material, ranging from new monsters (the Battlehulk, in particular, is fun to throw at players) to unique magic items and even a pair of prestige classes. Players may or may not take levels in either of these - one is for the devoted of Orcus (who is quite possibly *the* villain of the Lost Lands setting), while the other is sort of a Paladin on steroids. Lots of extra power (crit-focused builds, in particular, will WRECK evil monsters), but extra restrictions as well (like needing Atonement for things that weren't even your fault). It should be noted that the Justicar of Muir can easily be reflavored to fit the champion of any other appropriate deity, should the GM be willing to permit that. If normal Paladins are the elite crusaders of a church, the Justicars are a lot like divine champions, likely to be known the whole world over. (...As you may have guessed, I rather like this prestige class. XD) There are also a few hierarchy charts, some new spells, and over a hundred pages of maps. The PDF version of this book is very valuable here, since you can simply print out whatever you need to use.

Slumbering Tsar is massive (clocking in at over 900 pages of content, most of which is solid adventure), and depending on the speed of your group, it could easily take them months or even years to finish going through this. That makes it a good choice for stable groups, and... a bit harder for anyone else. As with most of Frog God Games' products, though, it's fairly easy to drop individual sections into your own campaign world. For example, you could pull individual parts of The Desolation and drop them in somewhere, which breaks the series into manageable chunks that are good for shorter adventures and smaller time commitments.

Again, though, Slumbering Tsar is not inherently an adventure path - if you want a true story, you'll have to step up as GM and come up with something that fits for your group. This book essentially demands an active GM'ing style if you want to get the most from it. Obviously, I can't recommend this to everyone - many groups would find this difficult to play (if only because of how big it is), but if it's something that works for your table, then you're going to get a massive amount of content for your investment. Yes, this is one of the most expensive RPG books you're ever likely to see, but on a per-page value, its cost is actually pretty low. There are just so many pages. It might literally take you weeks of reading just to go through it the first time and start preparing to run the game. XD

For those tables that can use this book, I think it's a solid 5/5. It really does require commitment, though - if you're not truly serious about exploring this region, you may be better off looking for a shorter book instead. (Off-hand, I suggest The Northlands Saga Complete - that actually is an Adventure Path.)


Worth every penny

5/5

This is an entire adventure path in a single, massive tome. Is it expensive? Yes, but it is worth every penny.

Let's take a look at the physical product:

-The binding is tough and durable.
-The pages are thick, quality paper.

I've carried this puppy around a lot and it is none the worse for it.

What's inside?

-the maps are clear and easy to read
-the illustrations are plentiful and serviceable
-layout is clear and easy on the eyes
-statblocks are mostly in-line for ease of play

But what about the adventure?

-Tons of memorable characters
-A story that feels like a real life legend
-side stories that feel like real life legends
-A location redolent with history and sorrow
-really mean traps
-amazing locales
-the most detailed ruins I've ever seen in a supplement

This product deserves every five star review it's gotten.


What everybody says about Tsar being amazing...

5/5

It's all true. The Slumbering Tsar is absolutely amazing. I'm not going to bother writing a huge review of it - there's plenty of those out there already.

Consider this a giant +1 for all the reviews already out there saying that the Slumbering Tsar Saga is fantastic. It is epic, twisted, wonderful and genius.


Slumbering Tsar lives up to hype

5/5

I've waited more than a month after getting the PDF of Slumbering Tsar, the epic Greg Vaughan mega-campaign, to offer any kind of review.
I knew when it came that the adventure read well. There were tons of fun, twisty (and twisted) plot elements. Nice bit of foreshadowing.

And I had the sense that the sandbox elements -- which allow players to really broadly dictate the direction of play -- were solid.
But I wanted to see how it flowed at the table and how my players reacted to the story-line and the texture.

First, a few bits of background. In SS, the adventurers begin by arriving at a dreary Camp on the edge of a massive, war-scarred desolation. Over time, they explore, learn more about their horrible surroundings, and hopefully progress toward exploring a ruined, haunted city.

I should say that I love making slight mods to any adventure I buy and this campaign setting allows that to happen smoothly. You can run it entirely as-is, or you can slide in 10% of your own material and ad nuances of your own.

My group has spent four game-sessions in the campaign so far, two entirely in the camp and another two venturing out into the desolation proper. At our last session, I asked the group for a blunt, no holds barred review and it was the most positive response I've ever had to a campaign.

Basically, they loved that the desolation seems so bloody horrible and dangerous -- lots of battle. But they also loved the fact that there were bits of story and role-playing. Vaughan manages to create something like the feel of a 1st edition dungeon (or wasteland) crawl, but with constant nudges of actual narrative and motivation.

There are also just gobs of cool wow moments here. (SPOILER ALERT SPOILER ALERT SPOILER ALERT) It's not just an undead: it's a hung man who haunts the camp at night. It's not just a tavern brawl: it's a conspiracy of homicidal little gnomes. Bottom line? Vaghan is a great writer, a great storyteller, and he knows that at the gaming table RPGs are about big cool moments. He delivers all those.

I do have one idea that I think GMs should consider before running this adventure. (And you should buy it and run it...) Here it is: SS offers a remarkable measuring stick for power creep in Pathfinder. An adventure that was ridiculously deadly when written is now only moderately dangerous - and sometimes encounters that would have been deadly fierce in August 2009 are fairly easy in September 2014.

I'd suggest looking closely at these encounters, especially ones that should be real tentpole moments and tests. If your party is going to sweep through them, consider adding a minion or two, or giving the NPC some kind of strategic advantage. This isn't always called for. Some moments in SS are supposed to be relatively easy -- a chance to sort of plow through the bad guys. But if you're not careful, a few of the BBEG's in this adventure will topple far too easily.

It's worth noting that some parts of SS are still extremely deadly as written. In four gaming sessions, we've had two PCs die, and two more brought to the absolute brink where one bad roll would have killed them. Granted I've done a bit of tweaking, but that's a much higher risk rate than any campaign I've ever run. And I should end by saying my players are loving it. I told them in advance to create back-up characters, so they knew going in that the tone would be bloody and high body count. So long as you get that kind of buy-in from your table, I think your group will love the Tsar.

--Marsh


And I don't care.

5/5

I held off getting this for months because I figured I’d never run it. Then I remembered that I’ve enjoyed lots of RPG items over the years I’ve never run, just read. So I did my homework on other’s reviews. They all said the same thing: what a total joy to read.

So, I plunked down the full price to the Frog Gods for the hardcover book and the PDF. Then 2 weeks later Paizo had it on sale for $50 off for their GM’s day promotion. And I don’t care.

It’s so huge I don’t know if I could ever actually run it. And I don’t care.

I’m going to lose a whole year reading this thing, and I don’t care.

I’m only on page 52 and having a fantastic time. The reading is easy, flavorful and fun. Like a novel, you really can’t wait to read the next location or situation. Its steal-ability factor is sky high, either just for situations, NPCs, encounters or monsters and flavor. It is also a cohesive set of mini stories all tied to one terrible location. The maps may not be gorgeous but they are clear and easy to follow – so I don’t care.

What I do care about is value for money and this is a prime example of it. If you were/are a huge fan of Necromancer Games’ 3rd edition material like I was, it will remain a treasure on your shelf. My hat is off to Greg Vaughan for sticking with it all this time and Bill Webb for making it happen.


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Kthulhu wrote:
Wow dude, chill. The 15th chapter is just that, a BONUS for people who preordered. It's not like the story is incomplete without it.

Thanks, but I don't need to chill.

I like getting stuff in print AND pdf. Probably the number one reason that there's that tag next to my name on these boards. There is no pdf option for this other material, which I would like to have as pdf.

Pretty sure I'm allowed to feel this way. :)


Uninvited Ghost wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
Wow dude, chill. The 15th chapter is just that, a BONUS for people who preordered. It's not like the story is incomplete without it.

Thanks, but I don't need to chill.

I like getting stuff in print AND pdf. Probably the number one reason that there's that tag next to my name on these boards. There is no pdf option for this other material, which I would like to have as pdf.

Pretty sure I'm allowed to feel this way. :)

I am with Kthulhu on this. By way, nice tip of hat to you for the thanks from Greg for your support.

As for the ghost, buy or don't. If not, your loss. The bonus chapter is a supplemental lead-in to another product. FGG produces the best quality RPG stuff out there. Almost all is bundled with a pdf especially if you order direct.

You are allowed to feel this way but sometimes you just can't please some people.

Frog God Games

Dear Uninvited Ghost,
I am not sure what your complaint entails. I am really confused about the anger I am sensing here and uncertain as to where exactly it is being directed; at us for providing a bonus for subscribers or at Paizo for selling a pdf that has no bonus chapter in it. If you want the book and not the pdf, you can just buy the book. You don't have to download the pdf if you don't want it. It is free with the purchase of the book. That is what the top option Print/PDF bundle means.

The book contains the bonus chapter that, as Kthulhu states, is not necessary to complete the Saga. You are of course free to purchase one or the other, or neither. However, this preorder is through Paizo, not us, and isn't much of one as you will be shipped the book very soon via Paizo. I can't say when as I am not them.

The preorders from us directly actually begain 2 years ago. Subscribers had to be content with the chapters as they came out via pdf one at a time over the months between then and now. Those persons are the ones the bonus chapter was intended to reward, for their patience. We value all our customers of course, so the bonus chapter is available to anyone who purchases the hardcover regardless of preorder status.

If you were angry because you thought that you weren't getting the entire campaign in the book, you may wish to revise your anger since it may entirely be possible what you think is true, actually isn't.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I don't think he was angry. I understood his comment to be that he wishes there had been some other perk for subscribers since he thinks it's a shame there is no PDF version of the fifteenth chapter (he likes a PDF version of all the things he gets in print, as I understand things).

It didn't read cross to me. I figured he was just passing on feedback.


Dawn R Fischer wrote:

Dear Uninvited Ghost,

I am not sure what your complaint entails. I am really confused about the anger I am sensing here and uncertain as to where exactly it is being directed; at us for providing a bonus for subscribers or at Paizo for selling a pdf that has no bonus chapter in it. If you want the book and not the pdf, you can just buy the book. You don't have to download the pdf if you don't want it. It is free with the purchase of the book. That is what the top option Print/PDF bundle means.

The book contains the bonus chapter that, as Kthulhu states, is not necessary to complete the Saga. You are of course free to purchase one or the other, or neither. However, this preorder is through Paizo, not us, and isn't much of one as you will be shipped the book very soon via Paizo. I can't say when as I am not them.

The preorders from us directly actually begain 2 years ago. Subscribers had to be content with the chapters as they came out via pdf one at a time over the months between then and now. Those persons are the ones the bonus chapter was intended to reward, for their patience. We value all our customers of course, so the bonus chapter is available to anyone who purchases the hardcover regardless of preorder status.

If you were angry because you thought that you weren't getting the entire campaign in the book, you may wish to revise your anger since it may entirely be possible what you think is true, actually isn't.

You are such a wonderfully nice and diplomatic person. I wish I was as patient.

I look forward to meeting you at NTRPG Con; you are on my short list of those I wish to sign some FGG books that I have.

Frog God Games

Steve Geddes wrote:

I don't think he was angry. I understood his comment to be that he wishes there had been some other perk for subscribers since he thinks it's a shame there is no PDF version of the fifteenth chapter (he likes a PDF version of all the things he gets in print, as I understand things).

It didn't read cross to me. I figured he was just passing on feedback.

Ah thanks Steve, I see that perhaps he is upset that the pdf doesn't contain the extra chapter. It was never intended to; so if that's the stickler, that won't change.

And thanks Zathros for the kind comments!


Zarathos wrote:
As for the ghost, buy or don't. If not, your loss. The bonus chapter is a supplemental lead-in to another product.

Yes, it definitely would be my loss. But, it would also be the stores' loss (in this case Paizo, if I chose not to purchase it). And a store loosing can mean a distributors loss, from less orders (in this case I think the books are coming straight from the company). And a distributors loss can mean a company's loss (maybe the distributor doesn't buy as many future products from the company).

At any rate, I AM buying it from Paizo, still.


Dawn R Fischer wrote:

Dear Uninvited Ghost,

I am not sure what your complaint entails.

I like to have products in print and pdf. The pdf of this product is incomplete. The missing content from the PDF is not obtainable for purchase. And it wasn't a complaint, it was voiced frustration followed by the suggestion that other methods be found for incentives other than making something exclusive in print.

Dawn R Fischer wrote:
I am really confused about the anger I am sensing here and uncertain as to where exactly it is being directed; at us for providing a bonus for subscribers or at Paizo for selling a pdf that has no bonus chapter in it.

Sense motive fail. ;)

No anger, just some frustration and not at Paizo.

Dawn R Fischer wrote:
If you want the book and not the pdf, you can just buy the book. You don't have to download the pdf if you don't want it. It is free with the purchase of the book. That is what the top option Print/PDF bundle means.

I want the book and the pdf of the book.

Dawn R Fischer wrote:
The book contains the bonus chapter that, as Kthulhu states, is not necessary to complete the Saga.

It's obviously material that is desirable. I assume that's why it was made exclusive for the print version.

Dawn R Fischer wrote:
You are of course free to purchase one or the other, or neither. However, this preorder is through Paizo, not us, and isn't much of one as you will be shipped the book very soon via Paizo. I can't say when as I am not them.

I did put preorder in quotations. :)

Dawn R Fischer wrote:
The preorders from us directly actually begain 2 years ago. Subscribers had to be content with the chapters as they came out via pdf one at a time over the months between then and now. Those persons are the ones the bonus chapter was intended to reward, for their patience. We value all our customers of course, so the bonus chapter is available to anyone who purchases the hardcover regardless of preorder status.

Yes, I've been following the project since the beginning. I've been waiting for the compilation. Missed the part where there would be no PDF of the complete book, though.

Dawn R Fischer wrote:
If you were angry because you thought that you weren't getting the entire campaign in the book, you may wish to revise your anger since it may entirely be possible what you think is true, actually isn't.

Nope. Again, not angry. Still frustrated that the pdf is missing content that's in the book. :)


Steve Geddes wrote:

I don't think he was angry. I understood his comment to be that he wishes there had been some other perk for subscribers since he thinks it's a shame there is no PDF version of the fifteenth chapter (he likes a PDF version of all the things he gets in print, as I understand things).

It didn't read cross to me. I figured he was just passing on feedback.

This exactly! :)

Frog God Games

Just a little perspective - It's 13 pages out of a 693 page PDF... it's not a bunch. I understand where you stand on the issue, but I would rather not see a mountain made out of a mole hill.


Chuck Wright wrote:
Just a little perspective - It's 13 pages out of a 693 page PDF... it's not a bunch. I understand where you stand on the issue, but I would rather not see a mountain made out of a mole hill.

Wasn't trying to make a mountain or a mole hill. Just comments about the product in the comments section.

EDIT #1: Got to love the internet. I think I'm misreading peoples messages in posts now. To clarify, it could be 2 pages out of a 5000 page PDF. I still like to have complete pdfs of physical books.

EDIT #2: I am buying it, I am looking forward to it, and I think everyone should buy it. And hopefully future awesome products, other than Rappan Athuk, have no print exclusive content (as one of the bonus mods is)

:)

(edit #2 "ninja'd" by Zarathos)


Uninvited Ghost wrote:
Chuck Wright wrote:
Just a little perspective - It's 13 pages out of a 693 page PDF... it's not a bunch. I understand where you stand on the issue, but I would rather not see a mountain made out of a mole hill.

Wasn't trying to make a mountain or a mole hill. Just comments about the product in the comments section.

EDIT: Got to love the internet. I think I'm misreading peoples messages in posts now. To clarify, it could be 2 pages out of a 5000 page PDF. I still like to have complete pdfs of physical books.

Good try, Chuck! I think we have beaten this dead ghostly horse enough. I think we have an excellent handle of what he likes and dislikes. Although "the customer is always right" is partially true some of the time, some customers aren't worth the effort. The great thing is that he is still buying anyway, probably will buy Rappan Athuk also. Hope he doesn't get the bonus 7B level since there is not going to pdf of that either. Last word!


Zarathos wrote:
You are allowed to feel this way but sometimes you just can't please some people.
Zarathos wrote:
Although "the customer is always right" is partially true some of the time, some customers aren't worth the effort.

You seem to be inferring that I can't be pleased, and I'm not worth the effort. I'm curious as to why you think this is?


Just putting my two cents in here, but I think that a print only chapter is a great incentive. Not trying to belittle Ghost's complaint, everyone's entitled to an opinion, but I'd hate to see future decisions made based on a vocal minority (though who knows, maybe I'm in the minority).

In my opinion, the print only chapter for a product that has a small production run of the physical books is a great way of rewarding those loyal fans that put their money down for your products time and time again. It's an almost personal favor that you give to show that the loyalty is appreciated. A special reward, like limited edition copies of games. It's something that will bring me back to support future FGG products from the start.

Frog God Games

Uninvited Ghost wrote:


EDIT #2: I am buying it, I am looking forward to it, and I think everyone should buy it. And hopefully future awesome products, other than Rappan Athuk, have no print exclusive content (as one of the bonus mods is)

:)

We are indeed pleased that you choose to purchase this product depsite your misgivings, and happy to see your interest in Rappan Athuk via our Kickstarter as well.

I do recommend, if you haven't already, that you double check all the content available for the pledge level you chose to be certain you are getting everything you wish. I hope others do the same.

We are very proud of our books and want, as much as is possible, for our customers to be delighted with their purchases.


Uninvited Ghost wrote:
Zarathos wrote:
You are allowed to feel this way but sometimes you just can't please some people.
Zarathos wrote:
Although "the customer is always right" is partially true some of the time, some customers aren't worth the effort.
You seem to be inferring that I can't be pleased, and I'm not worth the effort. I'm curious as to why you think this is?

Ok, I wanted the previous statement to be my last but I will also take this opportunity to say how truly great this product is. I got my on Friday, #222 out of 500.

You can never please people 100% of the time, eventually there is a point of diminishing returns. Your goal is make sure you don't alienate a majority and actually lose sales. A vocal minority must never dictate your sales plan. In this case, the bonus chapter was a reward to FGG's supporters, once this book is sold out it is gone. This is in stone and nonnegotiable. Individual installments in softcover and pdf will remain for a time. The complied pdf minus the bonus chapter will eventually be all that is sold and will be the best value for future sales.

Frog God Games

Carter Lockhart wrote:

Just putting my two cents in here, but I think that a print only chapter is a great incentive. Not trying to belittle Ghost's complaint, everyone's entitled to an opinion, but I'd hate to see future decisions made based on a vocal minority (though who knows, maybe I'm in the minority).

In my opinion, the print only chapter for a product that has a small production run of the physical books is a great way of rewarding those loyal fans that put their money down for your products time and time again. It's an almost personal favor that you give to show that the loyalty is appreciated. A special reward, like limited edition copies of games. It's something that will bring me back to support future FGG products from the start.

Bill Webb is very keen to provide content that appeals to collectors as well as those who only want the products to run active campaigns. Sometimes those desires run at cross purposes.

We hope that the quality of our products speaks for itself and attracts all kinds of customers. It is a fine line sometimes. The last thing we would want is to disillusion our long-time fans.

Thank you for your kind comments!

Scarab Sages

I was going to buy some dumbbells for an exercise program, but after receiving Tsar, I have realized I don't need one. :D

#366 out of 500


Dawn R Fischer wrote:

We are indeed pleased that you choose to purchase this product depsite your misgivings, and happy to see your interest in Rappan Athuk via our Kickstarter as well.

I do recommend, if you haven't already, that you double check all the content available for the pledge level you chose to be certain you are getting everything you wish. I hope others do the same.

We are very proud of our books and want, as much as is possible, for our customers to be delighted with their purchases.

I have looked at the various levels, and am currently backing at the $100 level. Though, of course, I would like to get the $250 level. And even if I do manage to find a way to justify upgrading to $250 (still a lot of time for stretch rewards ;) ), I would again be disappointed that "7B Caves and Caverns of the Ancient Gods" is in print only. :)

Still, that doesn't mean that people shouldn't go back Rappan Athuk at various levels right now. :)


Uninvited Ghost wrote:
Dawn R Fischer wrote:

We are indeed pleased that you choose to purchase this product depsite your misgivings, and happy to see your interest in Rappan Athuk via our Kickstarter as well.

I do recommend, if you haven't already, that you double check all the content available for the pledge level you chose to be certain you are getting everything you wish. I hope others do the same.

We are very proud of our books and want, as much as is possible, for our customers to be delighted with their purchases.

I have looked at the various levels, and am currently backing at the $100 level. Though, of course, I would like to get the $250 level. And even if I do manage to find a way to justify upgrading to $250 (still a lot of time for stretch rewards ;) ), I would again be disappointed that "7B Caves and Caverns of the Ancient Gods" is in print only. :)

Still, that doesn't mean that people shouldn't go back Rappan Athuk at various levels right now. :)

UG-

Thanks for being decent about this. I think quite a bit of the posts here are people getting their hackles up for no reason.

We will most likely not do any "print only" add-ons for future projects at anything other then a very high price tag for collectors only (Like Bill's design notes from decades ago). Learned quite a few lessons from the RA Kickstarter.

I understand not having a full pdf copy of the book. The bonus chapter is in no way necessary for the completion of ST, but it isnt the ENTIRE book, so I get it. But, to be fair, it was for initial backers as a BONUS, which I think you understand. I would love to be able to do something to "make it right" for you, but in this case, our hands are tied by being true to the initial investors in our product.

The fact you are adding links to the RA Kickstarter shows me you are cool with Frog god, and we would love to keep you as a customer. Please, keep checking out our stuff, and I promise, we'll do everything we can to earn our fans devotion with every product!!

SG


Skeeter Green wrote:
Thanks for being decent about this. I think quite a bit of the posts here are people getting their hackles up for no reason.

I have a talent for doing that on the internet, despite my actual intent, it seems.

Skeeter Green wrote:

We will most likely not do any "print only" add-ons for future projects at anything other then a very high price tag for collectors only (Like Bill's design notes from decades ago). Learned quite a few lessons from the RA Kickstarter.

I understand not having a full pdf copy of the book. The bonus chapter is in no way necessary for the completion of ST, but it isnt the ENTIRE book, so I get it.

As others have pointed out, I'm just one guy. If it makes business sense to make certain things exclusive to print, I won't take it personally. But I really do appreciate you considering my feedback.
Skeeter Green wrote:
But, to be fair, it was for initial backers as a BONUS, which I think you understand. I would love to be able to do something to "make it right" for you, but in this case, our hands are tied by being true to the initial investors in our product.

I do understand! Absolutely nothing to be made right.

I will say, though, as an owner of the first printing of The Tomb of Horrors Complete for Pathfinder, that I'm happy that there was a second printing, so more people could enjoy it.

I guess maybe a good business practice is to "never say forever". :)

Skeeter Green wrote:
The fact you are adding links to the RA Kickstarter shows me you are cool with Frog god, and we would love to keep you as a customer. Please, keep checking out our stuff, and I promise, we'll do everything we can to earn our fans devotion with every product!!

I never considered not being a future customer. :)


This book looks great. This is how I like them, nice and fat jammed with stuff. I'll have to pick it up.

Liberty's Edge

@Dawn - what's the ISBN for the hardback? or is this just available in a bunch of softcovers?

Mike

Frog God Games

The book for sale on this page is a single 960 page hardcover. I don't know the ISBN. I haven't see it yet.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Oddly enough, I cannot find an ISBN on my copy.

Frog God Games

I don't really know if Greg and Bill had one set up for this. It isn't free to do. I believe we had to get an ISBN for Rappan Athuk for Kickstarter, but not for Slumbering Tsar.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

That's kind of what I guessed.

Frog God Games

I just recently set up the ISBN for all of our previous books (from now on, we'll have them on everything).

The Slumbering Tsar Saga Print — 978-1-62283-124-1
The Slumbering Tsar Saga PDF — 978-1-62283-123-4

Yes, in addition to layout, I am also the Duke of ISBNs for His Sliminess.


@Uninvited Ghost, After some reflection, I apologize for the harshness of some of my statements. Due to shock and awe at your initial statement, I was more reactive than I should have been.

Frog God Games is really special with their products when it comes to the Print/PDF bundle. It is only due to FFG's discretion that it is also included on Paizo's site. For the most part, Paizo's products allow the PDF with print only if you a subscriber. For some, subscription is great but I find that it discourages me from buying print direct.

Liberty's Edge

Zarathos wrote:


The bonus chapter is a supplemental lead-in to another product.

What product does it lead into?

Need to know what else I need to order :)


If I recall correctly the product the supplemental chapter covers has not been written nor published yet. Perhaps someone from FGG will verify my assumption.

I believe the name of the product would be the Sword of Air. I could be wrong though.


Wildfire142 wrote:
Zarathos wrote:


The bonus chapter is a supplemental lead-in to another product.

What product does it lead into?

Need to know what else I need to order :)

I believe it is Rappan Athuk


I am surprised no one has mentioned the economics that lead to things like these bonuses for early subscribers.

Printing RPG books is a really risky business. You get big per unit discounts for ordering a lot of books, but you have to pay up front and if you end up with a lot of unsold books you can really lose your shirt.

The reason these incentives are in place (and I was the 13th person to sign up for Slumbering Tsar and I was in the RA kickstarter quite early at the $100 level) is that preorders take a whole lot of risk out of the business.

It really isn't fair to ask Bill Webb to risk $50K of his own money trying to produce something insanely great rather than something that is a guaranteed sale. I mean it's great that he's done it in the past, but now that kickstarter exists I think people who want these kinds of books published should get used to preordering.

So that's why they have these incentives. I too find the 'secret chapter' thing annoying, especially in the case of Rappan Athuk since I just can't justify spending $250 for a game supplement. But I understand why it's there.

Ken

Liberty's Edge

Thanks will wait and see when I get my hard copy.

Already in the Rappan Athuk Kickstarter :)


Zarathos wrote:
@Uninvited Ghost, After some reflection, I apologize for the harshness of some of my statements.

I didn't feel an apology was needed, but thank you! :)


Carter Lockhart wrote:
Wildfire142 wrote:
Zarathos wrote:


The bonus chapter is a supplemental lead-in to another product.

What product does it lead into?

Need to know what else I need to order :)

I believe it is Rappan Athuk

The bonus chapter at the end of Tsar DOES NOT lead to Rappan Athuk.

SG


Is the whole book pdf going to be available or just the current 14 individual parts?

Frog God Games

Wildfire142 wrote:
Zarathos wrote:


The bonus chapter is a supplemental lead-in to another product.

What product does it lead into?

Need to know what else I need to order :)

It's a teaser for Sword of Air, an upcoming product that Bill started working on about 20 years ago.

Frog God Games

PathfinderFan64 wrote:
Is the whole book pdf going to be available or just the current 14 individual parts?

It should be available soon.


Greg A. Vaughan wrote:
PathfinderFan64 wrote:
Is the whole book pdf going to be available or just the current 14 individual parts?
It should be available soon.

Thank you for the quick reply.

Frog God Games

silverhair2008 wrote:

If I recall correctly the product the supplemental chapter covers has not been written nor published yet. Perhaps someone from FGG will verify my assumption.

I believe the name of the product would be the Sword of Air. I could be wrong though.

You got it.

Liberty's Edge

I just checked my subscription for this month and it doesn't show the $10 shipping discount for orders over $100. Don't we get this for ordering this book?


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I ordered the Slumbering Tsar Saga back around Chapter 8 or something. It arrived a few days ago, and I've got some serious complaints.

1. I didn't realize the book was coming to my house when it was, so when a mystery box showed up on the porch, I just casually bent over to pick it up. Pretty sure I threw out my back, and my left wrist is ruined.

2. The book appears to have been covered in some addictive substance. Despite massive amounts of real life things going on, I can't seem to stop reading it.

3. The book contains no warning labels about falling asleep while reading it. Pretty sure I subjected myself to an ogre's feeblemind spell the other night when I dozed off holding the book above my head.

4. Following off of the previous complaints, it's really long. 952 pages or so. That means this addiction isn't going to be sated anytime soon, and I'm left to suffer. Also, the afore mentioned wrist makes holding it up really difficult, and the words blur since that episode falling asleep.

5. Finally, it fits far too perfectly into my campaign world to be an accident. I'm pretty sure copyright infringement against Bill and Greg is going to be open and shut.

In closing, I find your preorder schedule and Kickstarter offerings to be nothing less than strongarmed extortion. One day people like me will not have to pay you dirty bums our hard earned money hand over fist just to run a small family game in this neighborhood. One day.

Paizo Employee Software Test Engineer

Brutal Ben wrote:
I just checked my subscription for this month and it doesn't show the $10 shipping discount for orders over $100. Don't we get this for ordering this book?

Your order should be eligible for the first ten shipping discount, and it should be applied to the shipment when your order is processed from our facility. There is a display error that can occur with Print/PDF bundles where they don't actually show the discount being applied to the physical books shipment, but I can assure you that its there. Sorry for the confusion!

- Erik K

Liberty's Edge

Erik Keith wrote:
Your order should be eligible for the first ten shipping discount, and it should be applied to the shipment when your order is processed from our facility.

Excellent! :-)


Kain Darkwind wrote:

I ordered the Slumbering Tsar Saga back around Chapter 8 or something. It arrived a few days ago, and I've got some serious complaints.

1. I didn't realize the book was coming to my house when it was, so when a mystery box showed up on the porch, I just casually bent over to pick it up. Pretty sure I threw out my back, and my left wrist is ruined.

2. The book appears to have been covered in some addictive substance. Despite massive amounts of real life things going on, I can't seem to stop reading it.

3. The book contains no warning labels about falling asleep while reading it. Pretty sure I subjected myself to an ogre's feeblemind spell the other night when I dozed off holding the book above my head.

4. Following off of the previous complaints, it's really long. 952 pages or so. That means this addiction isn't going to be sated anytime soon, and I'm left to suffer. Also, the afore mentioned wrist makes holding it up really difficult, and the words blur since that episode falling asleep.

5. Finally, it fits far too perfectly into my campaign world to be an accident. I'm pretty sure copyright infringement against Bill and Greg is going to be open and shut.

In closing, I find your preorder schedule and Kickstarter offerings to be nothing less than strongarmed extortion. One day people like me will not have to pay you dirty bums our hard earned money hand over fist just to run a small family game in this neighborhood. One day.

I'm thinking a class-action lawsuit might be in order...


Quick question. I've been reading about these new and improved pdf maps. I've bought this thing chapter by chapter in its entirety and I wonder if updated versions of these pdfs will become available to those of us who bought the book this way.

Because I still spent a lot of money...

Frog God Games

@Darkwind

Great post dude--glad you are enjoying our work!

Bill

Frog God Games

Gururamalamaswami wrote:

Quick question. I've been reading about these new and improved pdf maps. I've bought this thing chapter by chapter in its entirety and I wonder if updated versions of these pdfs will become available to those of us who bought the book this way.

Because I still spent a lot of money...

An excellent question which I will attempt to remember to bring up when I see the rest of the gang of frogs at Dallas this weekend. And if you are planning to be present at the North Texas RPG Con as well, you could ask them in person!

Frog God Games

Chuck is brining a external drive w/ the pdf (serious)--if you are in Dallas, you can load it

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