The Genius Guide to the Godling Ascendant (PFRPG) PDF

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Beings with powers drawn from the might of the heavens themselves, godlings first appeared in The Genius Guide to the Godling. That product gave us two hero classes, the clever godling and mighty godling, based on the classic Greek heroes and heroines who could claim Olympians as parents or grand-parents. It also offered a godling prestige class, for characters whose divine heritage doesn’t manifest until later in their careers. Not long after, the spellcasting classes of adept godling and eldritch godling were presented in The Genius Guide to Mystic Godlings, creating godlings that took after the demi-mortal spellcasters of myth and legend. The classes immediately garnered a large following, and requests for additional material quickly began making their way to Super Genius Games.

The first book to offer additional support for them was Rite Publishing’s 101 Renegade Class Feats, which includes 7 feats designed specifically for use by the godling classes, as well as feats for numerous other classes created by Super Genius Games and other publishers. And now, The Genius Guide to the Godling Ascendant expands the classes even further, with rules for using godling abilities to create exemplar monsters, new ways for characters with non-godling classes to represent scions of immortal power, and new divine traits, ascendancies, scion talents, and feats for the four godling classes, as well as new ways to introduce the concept of godlings to a campaign.

32 pages of divine awesomeness!

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****( ) (based on 3 ratings)

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Hopefully Not the End

*****

I've loved the prior two releases and this one is no different.

New scion talents that have a great sense of theme and direction to them rather than just some random bit of power to tack onto your golding.

Divine Traits for many different character concepts. You want to play a mounted warlord with the blood of Hercules pulsating through her? You got it. You want to play the scion of Adonis, with a beauty so pure and undeniable it takes the breath from common people? Right here baby.

Some good feats that fill in some necessary gaps.

And even more awesome, some great character ways to utilize the various decks (like the Crit Deck) that my gaming group loves.

The feel is still there, the enjoyable concept is only being rounded out rather than pounded into the ground. Adding concepts such as bloodlines, schools, etc just helps a player/GM move the presence of the godling more fully into their world.

Honestly, I would love to see some more.


Partially great ideas, partially uninspired executions

***( )( )

This pdf is 32 pages long, 2/3 of a page front cover, 1 page editorial/SRD, leaving 30 and 1/3 of a page of content for the godling classes by SGG, so let's check them out, shall we?

The diverse Godling-classes from Super Genius Games' brilliant Guide to Godlings and Mystic Godlings are popular due to their great diverse flavor supported by excellent rules-crunch - they are scions of the gods, Heracles-in-the-making, heirs to the divine. RiP's 101 Renegade Class Features offered some new feats for them and now we get this massive pdf containing quite a bunch of new material. But can it stand up to the stellar standard of its predecessor-files?

We are introduced to 7 new divine traits ranging from Horse lord (for mounted godlings) to legendary beauty (which is not dependant on Cha) to preternatural senses. Unfortunately, the 4th tier of the rather complex mystic inheritance trait is missing, which is a pity - the trait is cool and grants limited access to arcane school or sorceror bloodline and balancing the higher tier abilities is quite difficult to do on the fly. EDIT: Owen clarifies this is intentional. I would have loved a 4th tier nevertheless.

Unfortunately this omission is not the only glitch that could have easily been avoided in this pdf. Moreover, the tendency to allow access to other class-abilities somewhat feel diluting to the special nature of the godling, another example being the resourceful combatant trait, which features improved dirty tricks and feel not like divine abilities, but more like skill.

Let's take a look at the 10 new ascendancies. The new ascendancies are mostly focused on special usages of magic, including the ability to cast a touch-spell at the end of a charge, get improved defensive casting or even access to hexes. While I like the latter idea, I maintain it dilutes the unique flavor of the class. Balance is a bit off as well - while a +2 bonus to AC for casting a spell as a full round action is rather weak, casting a full round action spell as a standard action and halving the casting time of other spells with casting times longer than a round is rather powerful. The 10 major ascendancies are also mostly focused on magic, but effectively feature very interesting mechanics, like converting spells to power words and a mechanical stroke of genius: Immortal Invocation lets you cast higher-level spells with lower level slots and make it work balance-wise. Kudos for this one! Accessing primordial, raw magic for varying effects is also an excellent example of great design.

We also get 31 new scion talents and they range from aforementioned access to other class abilities like channel energy (which I consider a bit bland) to abilities that add negative conditions to your piercing/bludgeoning/slashing damage or substitute ONE mental attribute for all governing attributes for saves. I.e. INT replaces Con, Dex and Wis as the attribute that gets its modifier added to saves. Additionally, some godlings can use this modifier for 3 skills of their choice. OP anyone? This class of talents (there's also one for Cha) is insane and so prone to min-maxing I consider it BROKEN. A monstrous rage for botching, being sneak attacked etc. on the other hand rocks and is a great catalyst for rping. Yeah, it does cross over with the barbarian's territory, but is different enough to be considered original. And then there's Retribution.
EDIT: I had a factual error here: Retribution allows you to make one attack at full BAB, not a full attack as a result of being hit. Alternatively, you might cast a ranged touch or touch spell with a casting time of one standard action or less as an AaO. Not as bad as I thought, but still rather strong.

I really did enjoy the scion of...talents, as they expand upon the portfolio of the deific parentage and the 4 aligned to the winds have an extremely cool payoff: If you learn all 4 Scion of the Winds talents, you can learn to turn into a whirlwind of destruction via a greater scion talent.

10 Greater scion talents are presented as well and seeing the power they ought to convey, I'm a bit torn. Divine weapon lets you summon a weapon of divine energy, which, while cool, would have been better if it was a) either more powerful or b) accessible as a scion talent. One greater scion talent I loved in its iconic imagery was Line f destruction, which lets you make an attack against every creature in your path as a full-round action, making this essentially a mobile whirlwind attack. Badass! Dispelling via melee attacks also feels Godling-style and it is in these that the sheer uniqueness of the class shines again.

The next section will be of varying utility for you - if you use card decks like fumble and crit decks, you get 7 scion talents for use with them. Personally, I don't use them. Seeing that there are a lot f decks out there, the mechanics mostly focus on draws and, at least in my game, won't see any use.

Next up are 5 new godling feats, 3 of which grant you extra class ability xyz. Pantheurge qualifies you as two additional types of godling which on the one hand sounds cool, but the feat should be carefully monitored - it could be abused. Spark of Divinity makes mortals with an attribute of 18 or higher qualify as a godling. While I like the idea, I'd limit it to first level. After all, which PCs does not, somewhere in his/her career surpass 18 in one of his/her scores?

We also get godling-related options for other classes: Deific studies for the wizards, a godling bloodline for sorcerors, a godling domain and the great hero advanced archetype for the fighter class. Especially the latter is a rather cool archetype and is great for destined heroes. Oracles get the Immortal mystery and 7 revelations, the coolest being the creation of a demi-plane to house a pantheon (which you might herald!). Neat ideas.

Finally, we get advice on how to make a kind of godling monster, so called exemplar creatures to reflect THE minotaur of the labyrinth, THE harpy of the jagged cliffs etc. I enjoyed this section.

Conclusion:
While formatting is good (apart from the one divine trait omission), editing is one of the aspects of this pdf that falls painfully short of the usual SGG-quality. There are quite a bunch of typos, glitches, homophone-errors etc. - enough to severely annoy me while reading the pdf. The pdf comes with extensive bookmarks and features beatutiful artwork, some of which I've already seen quite often in other publications, though. This pdf at once features awesome ideas and is a terrible disappointment for me: On the one hand, the spark of genius flutters through these pages and surfaces time and again with excellent crunch-design and cool ideas. On the other hand, not even half of the content of this pdf blew me away. In fact, from extra class ability feats to the rather bland divine traits, several aspects of the pdf felt like filler. I have some balance concerns with several of the abilities and the blurring of the lines between godlings and other classes, both via class abilities of the godling and e.g. the arcane school and similar devices of other classes, I can't help but feel like this pdf actually dilutes the flavor of the godling. Add to that the subpar editing and you get a torn endzeitgeist. As much as I love the Godling-classes and the concept, I cannot help but feel like "Godling Ascendant" is actually a descent for the classes. Thus, my final verdict will be 2.5 stars, rounded up to 3 due to me really liking the godling and the fact that the class gets some more love.

Endzeitgeist out.


A+ for Concept, B- for Execution

****( )

When getting together with friends to go through Pathfinder I poured over all the classes I wanted to play. Having played DnD for a long time from a Level-1 Fighter, to a Level-44 Epic Wizard, I was having trouble finding something I really wanted to go through.
Then I came across the Godling, and though my GM wanted to exclude 3rd party material I bent his ear until he relented. Liking the class I was looking forward to this book.
There is a lot of good stuff here that really brings the class to life. Like the ability to enthrall other creatures with one's divine beauty, or the ability to wield a lightning bolt as one's primary weapon in the vein of Zeus himself.
That said while I give an A+ on concepts, I can only allow a B- on Execution. This book feels as if it was a bit rushed. There are spelling errors (common enough ones that we all make, but should not be present in a professional product) and there are things that could really benefit from clairifcation. (Like the enhancement bonus and critical threat range if any, while one is wielding a lightning bolt as one example.)
One good thing I will say is there is not a whole lot of 'filler' in this book. You know what I mean, added misc (and probably useless) abilities included simply to pad the page count. Everything put into this book can enhance the depth of one's character.
All in all spending the money to add this to your collection will not be a decision to rue at a later date, and as nothing is ever perfect I am statisfied with my purchase.


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Super Genius Games

Now live!

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

For the curious, this 32-page book includes:
Seven New Divine Traits (divine portfolio, horse lord, instinctive spellcasting, legendary beauty, mystic inheritance, preternatural senses, resourceful combatant)

Ten New Minor Ascendancies (assault caster, attuned mysticism, defiant magic, eldritch magic, guarded spellcaster, hex lord, lord of the domain, magic is magic, swift casting, talent for mysticism,

Ten new Major Ascendancies (bestow eldritch might, dual casting, immortal invocation, inner power, mystic bridge, power words, primordial magic, retributive strike, soothsayer, wrath spells)

Thirty-One New Scion Talents (ascended spellcaster, channel energy, crushing wrath, deep channeling, dragon slayer, edged wrath, favored armor, fear hunter, force of brawn, force of intellect, force of personality, giant slayer, instinctive parry, light conduit, monstrous rage, penetrating wrath, retribution, scion of fury, scion of lances, scion of logos, scion of scales, scion of shadows, scion of swords, scion of the hearth, scion of the east wind, scion of the north wind, scion of the south wind, scion of the west wind, special knacks, unlimited potential, violent surge)

Ten new major scion talents (channel vengeance, divine weapon, hellish fury, immortal effort, line of destruction, mystic shield, paragon of the four winds, rupture magic, spell reaver, unbreakable grip)

Seven New Options for godlings in campaigns using critical hit effect and/or plot event card decks (death dealer, devastating spell, eldritch wrath, heroic blow, master of your own fate, minor miracle, spell curse)

Two new and three revised godling feats (Emergent Divinity, Extra Ascendancy, Extra Talent, Pantheurge, Spark of Divinity)

Five New Godling options for Non-Godling Classes (deific studies for wizards, the godling bloodline for sorcerers, the godling domain for clerics, druids, and inquisitors, the great hero for fighters or anyone with a Genius archetype book, and the immortal mystery for oracles)

And rules to make godling monsters, with the Maze Lord given as an example.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

I already bought the first two Godling Products, I'm not sure there's enough additional material here for me to justify paying full price for a product that is mostly reprinted material. Any chance someone who bought the previous two Genius Guides to Godlings could get some kind of discount?

Or a version of the product with the new material only?

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

I already bought the first two Godling Products, I'm not sure there's enough additional material here for me to justify paying full price for a product that is mostly reprinted material. Any chance someone who bought the previous two Genius Guides to Godlings could get some kind of discount?

Or a version of the product with the new material only?

With the exception of three feats, which are revised, this book IS all-new material. The 20 ascendancies, 41 talents, seven card-rule options, and the new monster and alternate class options are ALL NEW.

This is not a compilation of the first two godling books. It's a massive expansion that works with all the godlings, but can also be used on its own to create godling-flavored characters and monsters without using the godling classes.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Oh my mistake :-)

I'll pick this up as a birthday present to myself next week!


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Oh, wow! Makes the fact that the Pathfinder stuff for the Asian setting all got bumped back a week a blessing! Now I can get this. Mwahahaha!

Grand Lodge

Just got this, and I have to say that I'm a lot happier with this than other godling supplements. This comments the first two very well. There are a few areas where you're like WTF because a few things aren't spelled out that well (btw, there's a lot of "of" instead of "or" in various sentences), but overall I'm content with what came out.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

kevin_video wrote:
(btw, there's a lot of "of" instead of "or" in various sentences), but overall I'm content with what came out.

I'm really glad you like the book! I'm not happy to heart the of/or problem is still in this version. I may have sent the wrong file to layout (which would be entirely my fault). I'll have to take a look at that.

But the rules are the am either way, and if an update is needed, it'll go out to all purchasers automatically.


It's here! It's here! All we need now is some sort of super-cool "Tome of the Godling" that has a print version that I can order ....

Liberty's Edge

Nice!

This is bigger than the typical SGG PDF right? I'm betting a LLT of work and effort went into this!

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

Marc Radle wrote:

Nice!

This is bigger than the typical SGG PDF right? I'm betting a LLT of work and effort went into this!

Yes, at 32 pages it's certainly one of our biggest, if not the biggest as all-new material.

Many Bothans died to bring you this PDF. :D


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Marc Radle wrote:

Nice!

This is bigger than the typical SGG PDF right? I'm betting a LLT of work and effort went into this!

Yes, at 32 pages it's certainly one of our biggest, if not the biggest as all-new material.

Many Bothans died to bring you this PDF. :D

Man this is JUST what the doctor ordered for the godling, I have only glanced at it (my printer ran out of ink so i couldnt bring it with me on the train to read) but I always felt like the godling needed more choices in terms of divine traits and ascendencies that were a little lack luster, but this seems to beat the tar out of that problem.

Sczarni

Just wanted to say thank you guys for adding some godling themed options for non Godling characters in this PDF. you guys do listen XD.


The Great Hero was an awesome archetype, I also enjoyed the Godling Bloodlines, Domains, Mysteries and Wizard Schools. I know we will be using the feats that manipulate the Plot Twist Cards.

I was impressed with the product, please...please do this with the Time Thief/Warden.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I...somehow missed this?

what the hell.

Godling/Mystic Godling are my favorite of your products to date.

Buying this now.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Followup question...if we have all 3 of the individuals, can we somehow get the combined rollout, or do we have to buy that seperately at full price?

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

Rathendar wrote:
Followup question...if we have all 3 of the individuals, can we somehow get the combined rollout, or do we have to buy that seperately at full price?

The bundle is just a cheap way to buy all three existing PDFs, for folks just getting into the godling. If you already have all three, you don't need to pick it up. :D

Also, if you already have all three, THANKS!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Rathendar wrote:
Followup question...if we have all 3 of the individuals, can we somehow get the combined rollout, or do we have to buy that seperately at full price?

The bundle is just a cheap way to buy all three existing PDFs, for folks just getting into the godling. If you already have all three, you don't need to pick it up. :D

Also, if you already have all three, THANKS!

Gotcha. also, you're welcome.


This is just in time for me to flesh out the BBEG for my campaign.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

xorial wrote:
This is just in time for me to flesh out the BBEG for my campaign.

Heheheh. Tell your player's I'm sorry about that.

I'm not, but it seems only polite. :D


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
xorial wrote:
This is just in time for me to flesh out the BBEG for my campaign.

Heheheh. Tell your player's I'm sorry about that.

I'm not, but it seems only polite. :D

LOL, they won't see this BBEG for many sessions yet. I will be sure to tell them what you said when the time comes. I am revamping the leader of the Vodoni from the Spelljammer module, Under the Dark Fist. Making him a Mighty Godling instead of a Maeder, which never made sense anyway.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Card Game, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
xorial wrote:
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
xorial wrote:
This is just in time for me to flesh out the BBEG for my campaign.

Heheheh. Tell your player's I'm sorry about that.

I'm not, but it seems only polite. :D

LOL, they won't see this BBEG for many sessions yet. I will be sure to tell them what you said when the time comes. I am revamping the leader of the Vodoni from the Spelljammer module, Under the Dark Fist. Making him a Mighty Godling instead of a Maeder, which never made sense anyway.

You could always name the BBEG Owen or more subtlety K.C.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
xorial wrote:
LOL, they won't see this BBEG for many sessions yet. I will be sure to tell them what you said when the time comes. I am revamping the leader of the Vodoni from the Spelljammer module, Under the Dark Fist. Making him a Mighty Godling instead of a Maeder, which never made sense anyway.

Heh, since folks are sharing some of their uses, i'll do one also. I'm using the godlings for the Olman Speakers in Savage Tide AP, as well as Exemplar for the Infamous Seven legendary beasties. My players will love me!


My Current Godling

Kronaak
Male Human Mighty Godling 1
CG Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init +2 Senses Perception +5
DEFENSE
AC 16 touch 12 flat-footed 14 (+2 Dex, +4 Armor)
hp 14 (1d12+2 Con)
Fort +3 Ref +5 Will +1
OFFENSE
Speed 30 feet
Melee Great Sword +4 (2d6 +4/19-20 x2/ S) or
+3 (2d6+6/19-20x2/S Power Attack)
Ranged Light Hammer +2 (1d4+3 x2/20ft/B)
SQ Ferocious Strike 5/day +1 damage; Power Attack; Retribution 6/day
STATISICS
Str 16 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 13 Cha 12
Base Atk +1 CMB +4 CMD 16
Feats Extra Talent (Retribution), Power Attack
Traits Armor Expert (Combat), Heirloom Weapon (Equipment)
Skills Acrobatics 1 (+5), Knowledge: Local 1 (+4), Perception 1 (+5)
Languages Common
Combat Gear Tanglefoot Bags (2); Other Gear Chain Shirt, Light Hammer, Great Sword
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Armor Expert: Reduce armor check penalties by 1.
Favored Class (Human Godling) ½ Divine Trait
Heirloom Weapon: +1 trait bonus to hit with attacks of opportunity.
Linage Domain (Ferocity)
Domain Power
Ferocious Strike (SU): Whenever you make a melee attack, you can designate that attack as a ferocious strike. If the attack hits, it deals additional damage equal to 1/2 your godling level (minimum +1). You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Constitution modifier.
Scion Talent
Retribution (Su):When you are hit by a melee attack, you may make a melee attack at your full attack bonus against the attacker.
Using this ability counts against your attacks of opportunity for the round, and you cannot use it if some condition or circumstance prevents you from making attacks of opportunity. You may use this ability a number of times per day equal to
3 + your highest ability modifier.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

Frerezar wrote:
Just wanted to say thank you guys for adding some godling themed options for non Godling characters in this PDF. you guys do listen XD.

You're welcome. We *have* found that if a bunch of fans all say "We'll give you money if you do X," then we generally make money on X. :D


First, let me say how much I love this book. I am now seriously considering making my next campaign an all-godling campaign (Young Pantheon of Kor Kammor, or something like that). I already loved the godling, and this takes that love to a whole new level.

Now, the questions. First, with Talent for Mystacism and Ascendand Spellcaster, is there really a need to keep ascendancies and scion talents separate? Couldn't you just say they are all godling talents?

Second, why does the immortal mystery give bonus spells earlier than the godling bloodline? That's not really a complaint - the background fluff for everything in the "Godling Characters of Other Classes" is cool enough to justify buying the book even without all the cool, flavorful rules. I'm just wondering if you think the oracle is underpowered or if I missed something.

Third, any change of a Genius Guide to godling Magic? Id love more godling spells and spellcaster class options!

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
First, let me say how much I love this book.

I'm very glad you;re enjoying it!

Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
Now, the questions. First, with Talent for Mystacism and Ascendand Spellcaster, is there really a need to keep ascendancies and scion talents separate? Couldn't you just say they are all godling talents?

There are limits to what you can take as a scion talent with Talent for Mystacism or as an ascendancy with Ascended Spellcaster. Essentially, you can only take magic things as an ascendancy, and only take mundane things as a talent. However, there *are* magic things appropriate for scion tlanets, so they are listed with the talents, and if a adept or eldritch godling wants them, they can use Talent for Mystacism to get them. However, they can't use that ascendancy to grab the extraordinary combat abilities of clever or mighty godlings.

There are other ways to grab those talnets, of course. Basically, the distinction is designed to make it tougher for a godlking to get further away from their core competency, and that's intentional.

Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
Second, why does the immortal mystery give bonus spells earlier than the godling bloodline? [[snip]] I'm just wondering if you think the oracle is underpowered or if I missed something.

Because oracles get their bonus spells before sorcerers get theirs. :D

Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
Third, any change of a Genius Guide to godling Magic? Id love more godling spells and spellcaster class options!

If this one sells well (and so far that looks good!), there's every chance we'd look at doing a Godling Magic book.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

Realmwalker wrote:
The Great Hero was an awesome archetype, I also enjoyed the Godling Bloodlines, Domains, Mysteries and Wizard Schools. I know we will be using the feats that manipulate the Plot Twist Cards.

I'm glad you enjoyed the book! The card-based options where tricky to implement, since I couldn't mention any specific products by name. But I figure if they work with my old Whimsey Cards and Torg cards, it should work with anything else you might happen to have on hand. :D

Realmwalker wrote:
I was impressed with the product, please...please do this with the Time Thief/Warden.

Depending on how this one sells, that's a definite possibility.


Three points.
1) I would like to say I've really enjoyed the products you guys have put out. They carry the feel of products made by people who enjoy gaming rather than just those looking for a paycheck.

2) Reading your newest book one oddity stuck out to me in regards to the 'Divine Weapon' ability. Being a Greater Scion ability that can only be taken at 10th level or higher, it seems odd to me there is no enhancement bonus inherent to the weapon like a 10th level character would normally have. Should there be? Or does the wise man stack this talent with the Trophy Taker ability to provide that benefit?
2B) It says it deals base damage and later lists an element, is this base damage the elemental damage described, or does it have an elemental bonus (like flaming) on top of this damage? Not trying to munchinkize, just want to be clear on what exactly this awesome weapon for an awesome being is. The other reason I ask is with a weapon of this power I want to know how it will affect bonuses from Trophy Taker etc in reference to the absolute +10 limit any magic item can have.
.....Edit: Also what is the divine weapons crit stance? If I use it as a Great Axe does it do x3 on a 20? Would it do x2 at 19-20 if proxying a Great Sword? Thank you in advance for your clarification.

3) Finally I wanted to ask have you guys considered making a Godling variant that uses the power of True Names? 3.5 had a rather pathetic class which used those abilities but brought very little new to the table. Other formats of fiction and games like Neverwinter Nights have always protrayed True Names as a Divine Ability and with what you guys have done so far, I believe you all could do something quite impressive with it. I'd design such a class myself but know of no one to publish it, so I implore you...show us more of your class-designing awesomeness.


I think your Godling Bloodline for sorcerer is too powerful. The 3rd level ability, Adept Metamagic, is identical to the 20th level capstone ability of the Arcane Bloodline.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

Golden-Esque wrote:

I think your Godling Bloodline for sorcerer is too powerful. The 3rd level ability, Adept Metamagic, is identical to the 20th level capstone ability of the Arcane Bloodline.

That's an entirely reasonable concern. In playtest we did not find it overpowering. The reasons are twofold.

First, the arcane bloodline has as its arcana "Whenever you apply a metamagic feat to a spell that increases the slot used by at least one level, increase the spell's DC by +1. This bonus does not stack with itself and does not apply to spells modified by the Heighten Spell feat."

This is relevant because it means if a arcane sorcerer uses a +2 level shift metamagic feat he's getting double power out of it -- both its normal effect, and the effect of taking a 2-level shift for Heighten Spell. This means that all metamagic feats used by the arcane sorcerer are twice as powerful, and thus using them is more effective. Lacking this double-whammy, the godling sorcerer doesn't as much out of fast metamagic feats as the arcane sorcerer.

Second, the arcane sorcerer's 20th level power is considerably more than the 3rd level godling sorcerer power. In addition to quick metamagic feats, the Arcane Apotheosis ability includes "Whenever you use magic items that require charges, you can instead expend spell slots to power the item. For every three levels of spell slots that you expend, you consume one less charge when using a magic item that expends charges."

That's the far more powerful part of the ability, especially at 20th level. Imagine an arcane sorcerer with a staff with a 9th level spell. The arcane sorcerer can cast that 9th level spell all day long in return for expending a 3rd level spell slot, then 4th, then 5th, and so on. It becomes at least dozens of potential 9th level castings per day. And that's with only a single spell in a single staff. And there's nothing to stop the sorcerer from making that spell wish (at 20th level, he can afford it).

Even so, if someone finds their playstyle makes the godling sorcerer unbalancingly powerful, there 3rd level ability can be limited to work twice as often as the arcane sorcerer's 3rd level ability to reduce its effectiveness.


Are you sure the arcana is essentially a free heightened spell? It might be my staggering tiredness, but that doesn't seem right.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

Cheapy wrote:
Are you sure the arcana is essentially a free heightened spell? It might be my staggering tiredness, but that doesn't seem right.

Okay, no. I was using really short shorthand because it's late, and I overgeneralized.

Heighten Spell causes the spell to be considered higher level. That has two effects. It increases the DC (as DC is 10 + spell level +spellcasting ability modifier), and it causes the spell to be treated as higher level for effects that depend on spell level (such as globe of invulnerability).

The arcana says "Whenever you apply a metamagic feat to a spell that increases the slot used by at least one level, increase the spell's DC by +1. This bonus does not stack with itself and does not apply to spells modified by the Heighten Spell feat."

So you get a single +1 DC, rather than a DC based on how many levels you increase it, and it's not considered a higher level spell for the few spell-level-dependent effects.

So if the arcane sorcerer casts a Still Spell, it DC is +1, and he's gotten nearly double the value (it does 90% of what a +1 Heighten Spell shift would do).

If he casts a Still, Silent spell, he still only gets a +1 DC, so it's now only 150% as effective, and so on.

However, the core point that the arcane sorcerer gets more out of metamagic still stands, as does the fact that their 20th level power is WAY more potent than the godling sorcerer's 3rd level power.


Just downloaded it, and it looks great. The Mystic Godling player in my campaign must not see this..lol

And as usual, I have something to say about the art. Aside from the many recycled images, the rest of the artwork is fantastic! Big thumbs to the art director!

Grand Lodge

Is it just me, or is the minotaur missing about three feats? I see 11d10, but only Power Attack, Great Fortitude, and Improved Bull Rush. Also, why is there a +1 beside Power Attack?

Also, for being a CR 11, shouldn't it have a bit more for treasure than a huge greataxe and breastplate?

Lastly, how did you guys come up with a +4 on the gore's attack when the greataxe is +19, and BAB is +11?

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

kevin_video wrote:
Is it just me, or is the minotaur missing about three feats? I see 11d10, but only Power Attack, Great Fortitude, and Improved Bull Rush.

"Exemplar monsters can be created by replacing some of a creature’s feats with ascendancies and/or scion talents."

Those three feats became the scion talents favored armor (breastplate),
force of brawn, and spell reaver.

kevin_video wrote:
Also, why is there a +1 beside Power Attack?

Typo.

kevin_video wrote:
Also, for being a CR 11, shouldn't it have a bit more for treasure than a huge greataxe and breastplate?

Absolutely. I supposed I should have said "Standard, including a huge greataxe and huge breastplate." I was adopting my stat block from the format I used for playtesting, where this was crucial combat information. I can update that.

kevin_video wrote:
Lastly, how did you guys come up with a +4 on the gore's attack when the greataxe is +19, and BAB is +11?

That's an actual cut-and-paste error.It should be +19, 1d8+4. The powerful charge gore is correct, however.

Grand Lodge

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

"Exemplar monsters can be created by replacing some of a creature’s feats with ascendancies and/or scion talents."

Those three feats became the scion talents favored armor (breastplate),
force of brawn, and spell reaver.

Okay, I can get behind that. I would have put a note in there somewhere so as to not confuse anyone later though. Like "Exemplar Monster: Use ascendancies and/or scion talents in place of feats. The Maze Lord uses up three feats with the scions favored armor (breastplate), force of brawn, and spell reaver." and put it amongst the write ups for natural cunning and earth glide.


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Okay I'll ask again.
The Divine Weapon, can someone please provide some clarification as to how this is supposed to work? Should it have an enhancement bonus of some sort? Can it score critical hits? If doing so is it treated like the weapon for which it is being proxied in terms of proficiencies in terms of threat range and multiplier? Is the listed 'base damage' in fact the elemental damage of the weapon?

Ty.


Reviewed here, on DTRPG and sent to GMS magazine. Cheers!

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

Thanks for taking the time to write a review! I've gone to a policy of not arguing opinions on reviews, but there are some things that seem like factual errors I'd like to clarify.

The 4th tier of the Mystic Inheritance divine trait isn't missing -- the trait does not have (and should not have) a 4th tier. Instead, it allows you to select it multiple times (unlike other divine traits). You can still spend just as many divine ranks in it, you just gain access to multiple connections, to simulate a god's portfolio of powers (which often cover multiple concepts).

Retribution does not allow you to make a "full attack." It allows you to make a single attack, at your full bonus. It is very similar to Hateful Retort from the anger inquisition, except you can use hateful retort in more situations, but retribution more times per day.


Mea Culpa, Owen.
I do my best and reread all pdfs at least twice before I post the reviews, but this one somehow slipped my attention.

I corrected my errors and thank you for pointing them out! You're a gentleman and I admire most of your work.

All the best,
EZG

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

Endzeitgeist wrote:

Mea Culpa, Owen.

I do my best and reread all pdfs at least twice before I post the reviews, but this one somehow slipped my attention.

I corrected my errors and thank you for pointing them out! You're a gentleman and I admire most of your work.

All the best,
EZG

Hey no problem! I'd would churlish of me, to say the least, to claim a review should contain no errors, when the review points some at least a few real errors of my product.

Do you plan do change the review at OBS as well? If so I won;t bother commenting on it there. :)


Righty right, I'm on it....and done :)

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

Endzeitgeist wrote:

Righty right, I'm on it....and done :)

Thanks!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So my group is having some questions about the Godling feats in this one. In the special rules on the feats they state each feat can be taken more than once, but only every three levels. Each time taken they provide an additional 1 of "x". So for instance the Divine Trait one... does it Give 1 rank the first time and then again at 4th can be taken and then would grant 2 ranks? And then 3 ranks at 7th? Another reading was that they could only be taken at 3s so 3rd, 6th, 9th.. etc... And some people thought they only gave "an additional one of..." Can you clarify for us?

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

If you take the feat once, you get one divine trait rank. The second time you take it, you get one divine trait rank. The third time you take it, you get one divine trait rank, and so on.


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

The 4th tier of the Mystic Inheritance divine trait isn't missing -- the trait does not have (and should not have) a 4th tier. Instead, it allows you to select it multiple times (unlike other divine traits). You can still spend just as many divine ranks in it, you just gain access to multiple connections, to simulate a god's portfolio of powers (which often cover multiple concepts).

I am a little perplexed by the wording of this one. Say I have Mystic Inheritance II arcane. If I decide to branch off and take Mystic Inheritance I in another bloodline...does it cost 1 or 2 ranks? Mystic Inheritance I says "each additional time you take this it costs 1 more rank"...but I'm not sure if that means the cost is supposed to escalate each time.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

Vermicious Knid wrote:
If I decide to branch off and take Mystic Inheritance I in another bloodline...does it cost 1 or 2 ranks? Mystic Inheritance I says "each additional time you take this it costs 1 more rank"...but I'm not sure if that means the cost is supposed to escalate each time.

It would cost 2 ranks. It does, indeed, escalate each time you take it for a new bloodline.


I asked this on another thread, but...
It's intentional for the Immortal Mystery to have just seven revelations, instead of ten? What should the final revelation be?
If I'm a cleric with the Godling Domain, can I use my free minor ascendancy at 1st level to get another domain? Wouldn't this be too powerful?
If a Godling (PrC) chooses the Mystic Inheritance trait, which has not a 4th degree, what can he choose at 10th level? 3rd level degree with another bloodline power, or what?
The Spark of Divinity feat says that you treat your "class" level as your godling level. What if my character is multiclass? Does he use his character level or his level in one class? There are level limits, like with Powerful Lineage?

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

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Bardess wrote:
I asked this on another thread, but...

Sorry, I try to catch all the questions on the messageboards, but sometimes I miss a few.

Bardess wrote:
It's intentional for the Immortal Mystery to have just seven revelations, instead of ten?

Yes, it's intentional. Given how many of the revelations can be selected more than once to give you other godling options, I thought it had plenty of variety as written. :D

Bardess wrote:
What should the final revelation be?

Now that's a great question, and I'm amazed no one has asked before you did. I guess there just aren't THAT many 20th level campaigns. In any case it'll need to be added to errata, and here it is:

Final Revelation Your divine power has become so advanced that once per day, you can cast miracle. This ability does not require a material component, but the miracle cannot be used to grant ability score bonuses, nor can it be used to replicate spells with expensive material components costing more than 5,000 gp.

Bardess wrote:
If I'm a cleric with the Godling Domain, can I use my free minor ascendancy at 1st level to get another domain? Wouldn't this be too powerful?

If you have selected mighty or clever godling, you'll only get the powers of the domain and not the spells. If you select adept or eldritch godling you'll get the full benefit, but lose out on the synergy of being able to act like an adept or mighty godling divine traits. Further, since the godling domain doesn't grant bonus spells anyway, in playtest we found that in fact this wasn't unbalanced.

Bardess wrote:
If a Godling (PrC) chooses the Mystic Inheritance trait, which has not a 4th degree, what can he choose at 10th level? 3rd level degree with another bloodline power, or what?

Another degree (1st, 2nd or 3rd) with another bloodline power.

Bardess wrote:
The Spark of Divinity feat says that you treat your "class" level as your godling level. What if my character is multiclass? Does he use his character level or his level in one class? There are level limits, like with Powerful Lineage?

That should say character level. I'll put it on my list of errata.

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