Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Beginner Box (OGL) PDF

Doing it as a non subscription item means some people are happy and some miss out (on the free PDFs, the early release).

Doing it as a subscription product means those people get those things and the people who don't want it...unsubscribe.

What's the problem?

There's nothing intrinsically magical about the subscription path that makes pdfs free. If Paizo wanted to, they could drum up interest for any product by making the associated pdfs free. In fact, that would probably be a smart thing for them to do in relationship to this product, given that it's meant as an introduction to the game.

The problem, though, is that not everyone monitors the website to see what's coming next. I think a lot of people, myself included, have spent 3 years getting accustomed to receiving books for grown-ups through the subscriptions. If I hadn't randomly checked in to Paizo's website, I would've never expected to receive a boxed game for children - automatically - through my subscription. I think there's a lot of other people in the same boat.

As a number of people I see little direct value in this product but I have no compunction in letting this box set slide gently into my ever growing collection of Paizo products apart from one issue. The problem I have is as an overseas subscriber the constituent components of this one product plus the projected size / weight make it very expensive. Due to the nature of overseas shipping costs plus the fact that it will contain certain 'toy' components (dice + figures) will mean a number of regions will classify it as a product liable for import duties. The direct result is that this will double the cost. So a very reasonably priced product is now over-priced for those of us who are non North American subscribers.

This is a shame and because this debate has been raging now for 3 months with some very strong comments on both sides we are getting a very hard-line response from all concerned. I would like to receive this product and the associated pdfs but not at the almost 100% price premium. Whilst I imagine that local North American customers make up the large majority of the Paizo customers some of us from the old countries are long-time mass category subscribers and would like a solution.

I have been dipping into this forum over the weeks looking to see if we are getting closer to an appropriate long-term solution. However, and I am sure that it is not the Paizo staff intention, the impression given in the official responses in this thread (such as from Vic) is that this is not an issue to which they need to find a solution - and please people hold off from the pseudo-anodyne response to cancel & then re-subscribe after this product has shipped as that does not address the core issues of shipping these type of products that will be classified as games or toys to non local subscribers.

This is a very emotive topic for a lot of people passionate about the game and I hope that any ill-feeling that this topic has caused is short lived. Myself & my players all want to just get on and play the game and the Paizo subscription model is a very convenient way to collect the wealth of official PFRPG & Golarion material being created. I'd just like us to find the necessary tweaks that will make including any expensive ($30+) non-book products in the subscriptions less toxic to non NA subscribers.

I'm also not being melodramatic, sarcastic, or insulting.

You're not?!

Foisting a kid's game on your subscribers is, frankly, a very Wizards of the Coast-style thing to do. I thought you were better than that.

It certainly isn't a product intended for established players. So what it boils down to is that you're going to advertise for Paizo and pay them for the privilege!

they've always been loyal to their loyal fan base. This represents a change in that philosophy.

"board game for 13 year olds"

books for grown-ups

No, not melodramatic, sarcastic or insulting. Not at all. Oh, the farthest thing from it!

and please people hold off from the pseudo-anodyne response to cancel & then re-subscribe after this product has shipped as that does not address the core issues of shipping these type of products that will be classified as games or toys to non local subscribers.

Please explain how the "pseudo-anodyne response" does not address this.

Were any of those directed at you or other customers, or at Paizo?

Are you actually trying to claim that they're not?

Claiming that Paizo is somehow disloyal, or that they're attempting to force upon or impose fraudulently or unjustifiably the box set on their customers isn't directed towards Paizo?

Calling the box set a board game for children while books are for adults isn't an insinuated insult towards those that want the product?

Seriously?!

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

0gre wrote:

I'm hoping it will be useful to 7-10 year olds with some help but also reasonable for adults interested in getting started with the game.

That's pretty much it.

Was Mr. Reynolds being insulting? Looks like I was being generous, in context.

Just because something is appropriate for young people does not make it inappropriate for older people. It merely means that it was made correctly, that is to say, appropriate for all ages.

Libra wrote:

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

0gre wrote:

I'm hoping it will be useful to 7-10 year olds with some help but also reasonable for adults interested in getting started with the game.

That's pretty much it.

Was Mr. Reynolds being insulting? Looks like I was being generous, in context.

Just because something is appropriate for young people does not make it inappropriate for older people. It merely means that it was made correctly, that is to say, appropriate for all ages.

These are all evasions of the substance of my point - this is an inappropriate item for the subscription, for reasons myself and others have pointed out. It's clear from Mr. Harris' comments that his emotional involvement in the issue precludes reasoned debate and that this is about to turn into a flame war, so I'll disengage.

Ah, yes. I'm making emotional outbursts, and you're making reasoned statements. Thank you for clearing that up.

If your point truly is that this is an inappropriate item for the subscription, I will again point out, again, for the third time, that you're wrong, based on the description of said subscription. This easily falls under the category of "rules-focused accessory" as illustrated.

And for the record, if you don't like flame wars, don't gallivant around with lit matches and a can of gasoline. Your opening salvo in this thread was nothing short of incendiary.

Ah, yes. I'm making emotional outbursts, and you're making reasoned statements. Thank you for clearing that up.

If your point truly is that this is an inappropriate item for the subscription, I will again point out, again, for the third time, that you're wrong, based on the description of said subscription. This easily falls under the category of "rules-focused accessory" as illustrated.

And for the record, if you don't like flame wars, don't gallivant around with lit matches and a can of gasoline. Your opening salvo in this thread was nothing short of incendiary.

Your work speaks for itself, Mr. Harris. What more needs to be said? I couldn't possibly prove my point better than you yourself have. Adieu.

Rebis Ouroboros wrote:

So Libra, are you just trolling? You've admitted that you're not a gamer and get product from Paizo specifically to read it. The majority of subscribers were excited to receive it as part of their subscription, you weren't. Okay. But Paizo has given you an easy way to opt out if you like. Why are you being so melodramatic, sarcastic and insulting?

For most of Paizo's fans, we're gamers. And for some of us lucky ones, we remember the excitement of opening a D&D boxed set and going through these strange new contents and weird shaped dice and starting a hobby that we still, years later, absolutely love. One of the reasons you receive anything from a company called Paizo, hell, most likely the main reason there are employees staffing and in charge of Paizo, is that moment when they opened up a boxed set and experienced magic for the first time.
At PaizoCon this year, I sat in the forum for the boxed set, listening to Erik Mona and Jason Bulhman, and realized I was choking up because I was looking at the contents of this amazing boxed set and realizing that my own children will most likely never get that same feeling because of an ignorant mother who categorically forbids me to introduce my sons to something this amazing for fear they'll turn out like me someday.
This isn't some cheap little knockoff. This is a game I'd be proud to show ANYBODY.
If you don't think Paizo should have put the boxed game as a subscription item, you have made your option clear. If you feel the need to cancel your subscription, do so. Or better yet, send the game my way, where I can use it to introduce a new generation of roleplayers at my son's school (oddly enough, named Pathfinder) to this wonderful game of imagination.
But please don't insult everyone who would like to share that sense of wonder with a newbie or a child.

Ah, I was wondering when the accusation of trolling would come up. It's a common way to try to silence people who don't share your opinion. I'm also...

I really think even if you really did not intend it, you are the most blatant troll on these boards I've seen. It is one thing to disagree, but wow you just keep going on. It is crazy. You have the right to your opinion and others have the right to say they disagree with you. Stat yours and move on.

Wizened wrote:

and please people hold off from the pseudo-anodyne response to cancel & then re-subscribe after this product has shipped as that does not address the core issues of shipping these type of products that will be classified as games or toys to non local subscribers.

Please explain how the "pseudo-anodyne response" does not address this.

Please do me the courtesy of reading the full post before responding. As stated -

I would like to receive this product and the associated pdfs but not at the almost 100% price premium.

Therefore I suggest that removing this item from the subscription is patently not the solution I am looking for.

Your work speaks for itself, Mr. Harris. What more needs to be said? I couldn't possibly prove my point better than you yourself have. Adieu.

Before you leave, I just wanted to thank you for the comedy that is your profile:

Special Abilities

Throw Tantrum (3/week)

This is quite possibly one of the most unintentionally hilarious things I've seen lately.

Thank you!

Please do me the courtesy of reading the full post before responding.

I read the full post.

That's your only option. You're not willing to pay shipping. Paizo has a solution that meets your unwillingness to pay a "100% price premium".

Unsubscribe. Purchase product locally. Pay Paizo $9.99 for PDFs. Resubscribe after product is shipped.

No 100% premium. Cheaper than shipping.

Wizened wrote:

Please do me the courtesy of reading the full post before responding.

I read the full post.

That's your only option. You're not willing to pay shipping. Paizo has a solution that meets your unwillingness to pay a "100% price premium".

Unsubscribe. Purchase product locally. Pay Paizo $9.99 for PDFs. Resubscribe after product is shipped.

No 100% premium. Cheaper than shipping.

Brian,

You are missing the fundamental point of my post. This is not about shipping costs but about how to deal with this & future $30+ products that are classified as games due to the inclusion of 'toy' components such as dice & figures - this is the reason that certain non NA subscibers will be hit with import duties that push the cost of these otherwise reasonably priced products into the daftly expensive price bracket.

I have no issue with shipping and haven't since I bought the first products with Paizo back in December 2006. Similar to yourself I subscribe to a broad swath of the Pathfinder and Golarion products and happily pay the shipping costs, this is a convenient and cost appropriate way to get my Paizo fix.

Whilst I appreciate your enthusiasm & comments on this thread I am actually hoping for a more authoritative response to this particular issue - we can all kick around suggestions / throw out one-liners / offer support but ultimately it is Paizo that make the decisions & put them into action. Paizoans, any comment?

This is not about shipping costs but about how to deal with this & future $30+ products that are classified as games due to the inclusion of 'toy' components such as dice & figures - this is the reason that certain non NA subscibers will be hit with import duties that push the cost of these otherwise reasonably priced products into the daftly expensive price bracket.

This will be my last comment on the matter, since it really doesn't matter to me anyhow, but:

This isn't the harbinger of the slippery slope of boxed sets being sold under the subscription. This is a one-time thing.

Paizo has already stated that they're not going to publish box sets of stuff due to the cost of doing so, and that this product is special.

I understand your concerns, but at the same time, Paizo has addressed them by providing you the option to unsubscribe/resubscribe, and, while not explicitly confirmed, it stands to reason that, since this is part of the RPG subscription/line, the PDFs will be offered at the same price as the rest of the RPG line, allowing you to circumvent those exorbitant import duties/fees. As such, you only really have to deal with it this time - not multiple additional times in the future.

They have possibly ca,e up with a good solution for future releases like this.

People want free PDFs others don't care to have the product.

So te release of the anniversary edition of Rise of the Runelords hard cover. By being subscribed to the Adventure Path line people who preorder the book will get the PDF.

Think even Paizo saw the feedback. It's just to late in the game to change it from being part of the subscription line.

Personally I did cancel the RPG sub to skip it. Also personally not 100% sure I want to yet. At any rate people should be allowed to post their thoughts with out extreme back lash from both sides.

Sean

Personally, I've just emailed to skip this on the subscription. For the price to me including VAT, shipping and import duty, I can buy 3 copies from Amazon in the UK. That order has been placed and I'll be giving 2 of those away as Christmas gifts to friends kids.

I agree with Paizo making this part of the subscription to get copies out there, but I'm glad that I had the option to skip it.

Here, these might help.

Item 1

Item 2

I just had a conversation with the owner of my local game store. First, please note, he does not carry Pathfinder, at all. He is only intending to purchase the Beginner's Box and IF it sells well, THEN he will carry Pathfinder materials. His point while conversing with me was that NO ONE else but a certain other RPG game publisher makes materials to bring in brand new players. Pathfinder's Beginner Box fills this niche and I hope it does it well.

I just wanted to point this out to the sales folks at Paizo because I am fairly certain they are interested in this reaction and potential for new sales for the rest of the Pathfinder line.

As a number of people I see little direct value in this product but I have no compunction in letting this box set slide gently into my ever growing collection of Paizo products apart from one issue. The problem I have is as an overseas subscriber the constituent components of this one product plus the projected size / weight make it very expensive. Due to the nature of overseas shipping costs plus the fact that it will contain certain 'toy' components (dice + figures) will mean a number of regions will classify it as a product liable for import duties. The direct result is that this will double the cost. So a very reasonably priced product is now over-priced for those of us who are non North American subscribers.

This is a shame and because this debate has been raging now for 3 months with some very strong comments on both sides we are getting a very hard-line response from all concerned. I would like to receive this product and the associated pdfs but not at the almost 100% price premium. Whilst I imagine that local North American customers make up the large majority of the Paizo customers some of us from the old countries are long-time mass category subscribers and would like a solution.

I have been dipping into this forum over the weeks looking to see if we are getting closer to an appropriate long-term solution. However, and I am sure that it is not the Paizo staff intention, the impression given in the official responses in this thread (such as from Vic) is that this is not an issue to which they need to find a solution - and please people hold off from the pseudo-anodyne response to cancel & then re-subscribe after this product has shipped as that does not address the core issues of shipping these type of products that will be classified as games or toys to non local subscribers.

This is a very emotive topic for a lot of people passionate about the game and I hope that any ill-feeling that this topic has caused is short lived. Myself & my players all want to just get on and play the game and the Paizo subscription model is a very convenient way to collect the wealth of official PFRPG & Golarion material being created. I'd just like us to find the necessary tweaks that will make including any expensive ($30+) non-book products in the subscriptions less toxic to non NA subscribers.

I am in the same position as you are (being an overseas customer and possibly looking to pay as much in shipping as I do for the actual product). However, I don't think there's much Paizo can really do about it.

We live halfway across the world and are looking to buy a product with high shipping costs and a high likelihood of being hit with tariffs/duties. That's the situation and a publishing company can't really affect either of those things. If we in non-American countries want to buy boxed sets with toy components from the manufacturer in America - we face high shipping and potentially high taxes.

I realise you're more interested in an official answer than some random fan's opinions and maybe Paizo can come up with some brilliant solution (like selling the boxes through gaming stores and including access to the PDFs) but I've seen various threads on 'scratch off free PDF' codes and so forth to realise that there are problems with this approach.

Steve Geddes wrote:

Doing it as a non subscription item means some people are happy and some miss out (on the free PDFs, the early release).

Doing it as a subscription product means those people get those things and the people who don't want it...unsubscribe.

What's the problem?

There's nothing intrinsically magical about the subscription path that makes pdfs free. If Paizo wanted to, they could drum up interest for any product by making the associated pdfs free. In fact, that would probably be a smart thing for them to do in relationship to this product, given that it's meant as an introduction to the game.

The problem, though, is that not everyone monitors the website to see what's coming next. I think a lot of people, myself included, have spent 3 years getting accustomed to receiving books for grown-ups through the subscriptions. If I hadn't randomly checked in to Paizo's website, I would've never expected to receive a boxed game for children - automatically - through my subscription. I think there's a lot of other people in the same boat.

They could come up with another way for providing free PDFs and early access - but why would they? They've got one and it's in the form of a subscription. Those who want it can get it, those who dont can send two emails and click a 'subscribe' button a couple of months later. The only people missing out are those who sign up for a subscription to a line of role-playing game rulebooks who don't want a beginner's set and who don't pay attention to the upcoming products nor to the 'we are about to ship...' emails. I'm not convinced there's many of them.

As to your objection that this is 'inappropriate' or 'totally unacceptable'. This is a subscription line for rules for a particular roleplaying game - it's not a line for 'longtime role players'. The fact you have no interest in a beginner's set is not very relevant, what matters is whether it falls within the 'rulebook' product line - especially since it is so easy for those who dont want it to skip the product. The core rulebook is one avenue to access the pathfinder rules (and in my view one which is too daunting and intimidating for newcomers to the hobby) - this is another.

I can see why people wouldnt want the product in the subscription - I just dont see why they would ascribe motives regarding profit/free marketting/etcetera to Paizo for doing it this way when there's such a large cohort of their subscribers who want the product included in the line and given that Paizo make it so easy for those who dont want it to opt-out. I think that, as usual, Paizo are striving to provide maximum satisfaction to a disparate customer base. I don't see anyone who isnt getting what they want, other than people like Wizened. As I mentioned to him, I think this is because the barriers to his satisfaction are beyond Paizo's control and not because they dont care.

I'm actually pretty excited about a Pathfinder Lite rules set. and am looking forward to a pared down rulebook. It's an added bonus that my 13-year-old will get a choose your own adventure style book to maybe show the Clone Wars adled bumpkin what dad keeps spending his college money on.

One question, though. I may've glazed over this in all eight pages here, but what is the assumed plan to continue what is started in the beginner's set?

The flip map and tokens and such are all reusable, of course, but will the rule books continue to be useful as the new players graduate to full-on Pathfindering?

Okay, not to be too snarky, but Libra has created 1,116 words to state a dislike of the Beginner Set being in the subscription line. With about 30 words, you could cancel your sub and restart it after the Beginner Set ships. Simple solution to a simple problem.

You don't get the box set that many subscribers, myself included want, and you can easily restart your subscription. I really don't see how your needs and the wishes of the majority of subscribers could be more easily supported by Paizo. By the way, I have my subscriber set plus two more on order (one for my nephew and one for a friend's son). So, yes, I do think this will get a new generation into RPGs.

I suggest we dispense with the vitriol. This is Beginner Box discussion, I hate to think that a new user might actually read this discussion and be put off. Don't respond to trolling, not here.

I'm looking forward to this, and I think that the product is a terrific idea.

On the whole subscription thing, I actually ordered the item before realizing that it was part of my subscription, and had to cancel the extra copy (I somehow convinced myself that it wasn't included in the sub--still wanted it, though).

I'll be picking up a few extra copies off-site for gifts.

I'm not an RPG subscriber. Though I am buying the box through Amazon. I don't see a big problem with them including this in the RPG sub, they were up front about it and asked for opinions on it. I can see why some people might not want it, especially the over seas subscribers who may have to pay dearly for it. Unfortunately the only solution is to cancel and then resub after it ships. This isn't a huge burden, but it's not the most elegant solution. I would guess this is more of a technology issue. As well as Paizo is doing, they are still a pretty small company, and it doesn't seem their system supports this kind of thing. And as much as I wish it was an opt in, rather than opt out thing, we don't know the costs that are be associated with setting that up. And I'm sure there are a lot of other issues which we're not even considering. So even though it isn't the best solution, I think it's fair, and I don't think Paizo is trying to screw anyone. Paizo has built their rep on being good to and communicating with their customers. If their model was based on screwing customers, they would have long ceased to exist.

As far as certain other posters in this thread, who say this doesn't belong in the RPG sub. Then offer no concrete evidence on their position, and use a condescending style when stating their position over and over again. I would call troll. They state that other people are emotional, then ignore any rational response. I would submit that you wouldn't post as many responses unless you were emotionally attached to this issue, or were getting some sort of enjoyment out of the responses. So either you are disingenuos and you are emotionally attached to this, or you are doing it to see the responses, which would be trolling. You pick.

Anyway, to restate, not the ideal situation, and I can see why some people might not like it, but not a huge deal.

I look forward to getting my box.

I suggest we dispense with the vitriol. This is Beginner Box discussion, I hate to think that a new user might actually read this discussion and be put off. Don't respond to trolling, not here.

Libra might have been a bit too aggresive but I do not think he was trying to troll, I for the better part agree with what he was saying. It is a strange move to add the beginner box to a subscription that is focused on the 'advanced' game, while it is possible to cancel my subscription and restart it, I think it would be more decent to add this product at a discount for subscribers instead.

This will probably sell more copies for a product with a narrow expected profit margin but I think it could be expected to offend a number of subscribing customers to add it to the subscription by default. It seems a bit too agressive of a sales stratgy for my tastes and infact unexpected from paizo, not particulary offended, but I would suggest to do it differently next time.

Evil Lincoln wrote:

I suggest we dispense with the vitriol. This is Beginner Box discussion, I hate to think that a new user might actually read this discussion and be put off. Don't respond to trolling, not here.

Libra might have been a bit too aggresive but I do not think he was trying to troll, I for the better part agree with what he was saying. It is a strange move to add the beginner box to a subscription that is focused on the 'advanced' game, while it is possible to cancel my subscription and restart it, I think it would be more decent to add this product at a discount for subscribers instead.

This will probably sell more copies for a product with a narrow expected profit margin but I think it could be expected to offend a number of subscribing customers to add it to the subscription by default. It seems a bit too agressive of a sales stratgy for my tastes and infact unexpected from paizo, not particulary offended, but I would suggest to do it differently next time.

He was either trolling, or felt strongly enough that he was emotionally invested enough that he made a lot of the same posts and ignored any rational discussion. He also was very presumptuous, or as you say, aggressive. So to me, he is either trolling, or not being truthful. Again your choice. I see the reasons for not liking it, but he seems to be after something else. I would say, state your concerns, and then respond to the people who disagree in a a constructive manner. He didn't respond to the rational arguments, and insulted others. This is why some people took his comments poorly.

If he had stated his point in a rational manner, and there are many reasons to not like this, it would be a non issue. He didn't do that, and that's why people are responding.

Remco Sommeling wrote:

Evil Lincoln wrote:

I suggest we dispense with the vitriol. This is Beginner Box discussion, I hate to think that a new user might actually read this discussion and be put off. Don't respond to trolling, not here.

Libra might have been a bit too aggresive but I do not think he was trying to troll, I for the better part agree with what he was saying. It is a strange move to add the beginner box to a subscription that is focused on the 'advanced' game, while it is possible to cancel my subscription and restart it, I think it would be more decent to add this product at a discount for subscribers instead.

This will probably sell more copies for a product with a narrow expected profit margin but I think it could be expected to offend a number of subscribing customers to add it to the subscription by default. It seems a bit too agressive of a sales stratgy for my tastes and infact unexpected from paizo, not particulary offended, but I would suggest to do it differently next time.

He was either trolling, or felt strongly enough that he was emotionally invested enough that he made a lot of the same posts and ignored any rational discussion. He also was very presumptuous, or as you say, aggressive. So to me, he is either trolling, or not being truthful. Again your choice. I see the reasons for not liking it, but he seems to be after something else. I would say, state your concerns, and then respond to the people who disagree in a a constructive manner. He didn't respond to the rational arguments, and insulted others. This is why some people took his comments poorly.

If he had stated his point in a rational manner, and there are many reasons to not like this, it would be a non issue. He didn't do that, and that's why people are responding.

I only read the first few posts and skipped the later ones, I assumed it was a bit of back and forth arguing. You are probably right.

Let's be done with it now. Who has questions about the box itself?

Let's be done with it now. Who has questions about the box itself?

It's probably a really stupid question but will the box be the right size to store multiple stacks of GameMastery map packs without rattling around too much?

The box is the same size as the Kill Doctor Lucky box, so I grabbed one of those and stuck books and a Flip-Mat in it. I can't estimate how much space the pawns take up (especially once punched out), but it looks like you can fit 4-5 map packs in it and still have room for the dice and (probably) all the pawns.

I'm actually really surprised that people think this is ok. Everyone that's left a comment here has stated that they're going to gift this set to someone else. It certainly isn't a product intended for established players.

That is not correct; quite a few posters have said that they intend to buy it for themselves. And then there are those -- for example, Mairkurion and myself -- who are going to purchase (at least) two copies.

Personally, I want to give a copy for my nephew, because I see it as a great gateway product to introduce new people to RPGs. But it's not just that; I still love BD&D for its simplicity, and I'm sure I'll be running BB every now and then for my group of "established players".

If it wasn't a boxed set, I'd make sure our library acquires a couple of these as well.

Looks like I'm a little late for this discussion, but I agree they probably should have left this off of the sub. It is a rather drastic departure from the norm, AND if I were Paizo I'd give the PDF away for free anyway ("first one's free, boys and girls..."). :P

Libra wrote:

I'm actually really surprised that people think this is ok. Everyone that's left a comment here has stated that they're going to gift this set to someone else. It certainly isn't a product intended for established players.

That is not correct; quite a few posters have said that they intend to buy it for themselves. And then there are those -- for example, Mairkurion and myself -- who are going to purchase (at least) two copies.

Personally, I want to give a copy for my nephew, because I see it as a great gateway product to introduce new people to RPGs. But it's not just that; I still love BD&D for its simplicity, and I'm sure I'll be running BB every now and then for my group of "established players".

If it wasn't a boxed set, I'd make sure our library acquires a couple of these as well.

+1

Libra wrote:

I'm also not being melodramatic, sarcastic, or insulting.

You're not?!

Libra wrote:

Foisting a kid's game on your subscribers is, frankly, a very Wizards of the Coast-style thing to do. I thought you were better than that.

Libra wrote:

It certainly isn't a product intended for established players. So what it boils down to is that you're going to advertise for Paizo and pay them for the privilege!

Libra wrote:

they've always been loyal to their loyal fan base. This represents a change in that philosophy.

Libra wrote:

"board game for 13 year olds"

Libra wrote:

books for grown-ups

No, not melodramatic, sarcastic or insulting. Not at all. Oh, the farthest thing from it!

You missed one, unless calling Paizo "Crooked" means something different to you guys than it does to me.

It's clearly not what the subscription service was meant for, and it's a crooked thing for Paizo to do.

Just want to chime in here again and say that I'm delighted that it's part of the subscription, and in fact I will 100% be keeping mine, and I'll be getting at least two others as gifts.

Possibly more.

Plus, since it's on the subscriber list, I get the PDFs. What could be better?

I personally want to thank Paizo for including this in the subscription.

I'd just like it if there was a company supplying Paizo products to New Zealand at a reasonable rate.
While my local game store would love to get the box set in, it is going to end up being around $130 dollars.

If not more.

While I really wish that we were able to bring this product in with a packaged weight of under 4 pounds (which is where international shipping prices jump significantly), that just couldn't happen here. (If you've been an RPG subscriber since the beginning, we faced the same issue with the Core Rulebook.)

It is also correct that this will be classified for Customs as a "game" (where the Core Rulebook was a "book") and that may or may not make a difference in potential customs duties; that's not something we have specific knowledge of, though; you'll need to check with your local post office.

One thing I will point out, though, is that once you're over 4 pounds and into Priority Mail, you can usually add some additional products to the same shipment without having the shipping costs go up very much, if at all.

I'd just like it if there was a company supplying Paizo products to New Zealand at a reasonable rate.

While my local game store would love to get the box set in, it is going to end up being around $130 dollars.

If not more.

I do sympathize how much it costs for you and understand your viewpoint. $130 (or more), ouch. I hope you can find a cheaper alternative.

The box is the same size as the Kill Doctor Lucky box, so I grabbed one of those and stuck books and a Flip-Mat in it. I can't estimate how much space the pawns take up (especially once punched out), but it looks like you can fit 4-5 map packs in it and still have room for the dice and (probably) all the pawns.

Thanks.

Just want to chime in here again and say that I'm delighted that it's part of the subscription, and in fact I will 100% be keeping mine...

Me too. I'm considering taking my copy to conventions and such and introduce people to the game using the Beginner's Box.

An option might have it sent to somebody in the states and your friend could then bust it up into two different packages to make it less than four ponds.

Have one package as the box un crushed. The other books the pure books to go media mail or cheaper. Guess International First class would work as well.

Basically get it under four pounds and combine the "game" components and the "book" components so the taxes are better to.

Just an idea. I know I have done it for forum friends with Dwarven Forge items. Not exactly the same didn't bust those down but sent them a different method than was offerEd by Dwarven Forge which was cheaper.

Sean

Not sure if it's already been bought up yet, but there's this preview of the Beginner's Box contents that can be found here, complete with a brief pdf preview of what's in the player's handbook.

P.S. Someone had posted this up at rpg.net, which was how I found out about it.

It is a strange move to add the beginner box to a subscription that is focused on the 'advanced' game, while it is possible to cancel my subscription and restart it, I think it would be more decent to add this product at a discount for subscribers instead.

No where in the RPG subscription does it say 'advanced'. This is a part of the RPG rules. Thus, it is a natural fit for the RPG subscription.

Since this has been announced with plenty of advanced warning, anyone who wishes can opt out of the subscription. This isn't a pre-paid magazine subscription. You haven't been charged for the product yet. There is a 3 month window for cancellation between each product. I really don't see the problem.

I for one will be getting two copies, one for myself and one for my niece. I definitely want it myself so I can play a lighter version of the game. I was one of the ones who originally asked for it to be part of the subscription. I suspect the vast majority of subscribers are happy to have it.

Not sure if it's already been bought up yet, but there's this preview of the Beginner's Box contents that can be found here, complete with a brief pdf preview of what's in the player's handbook.

P.S. Someone had posted this up at rpg.net, which was how I found out about it.

That is very interesting because at the end of the preview it states ...

It sound from "Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Beginner Box in October" that this is not from the Beginner box and is from something else. Does any one know where this could be from.

http://www.gametrademagazine.com/downloads/GTM138PathfinderBeginnerBoxPrevi ew.pdf

Here4daFreeSwag wrote:

Not sure if it's already been bought up yet, but there's this preview of the Beginner's Box contents that can be found here, complete with a brief pdf preview of what's in the player's handbook.

P.S. Someone had posted this up at rpg.net, which was how I found out about it.

That is very interesting because at the end of the preview it states ...

"What’s Next? Pick up the complete Pathfinder
Roleplaying Game Beginner Box in October for the full rules to
create your custom cleric,fighter, rogue, or wizard!"

It sound from "Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Beginner Box in October" that this is not from the Beginner box and is from something else. Does any one know where this could be from.

http://www.gametrademagazine.com/downloads/GTM138PathfinderBeginnerBoxPrevi ew.pdf

I'm not certain what you mean. This is the Beginner Box, to be released in October. There is only one Beginner's Box. The preview is a sneak peak at this box. What makes you think there is some second product?

Edit: I think I see what you mean. That preview PDF is not an excerpt from the finished Beginner's Box. It is a specially made preview that was made from material in the Beginner's Box, but is in itself just an advertisement for the Beginner's Box.

Ok, I asked because is shows page 10-13 and I expected there to be more to the preview that we just are not seeing but I'm cool with just this.

Is this on the Paizo site?
And if not it should be, I'm sure a lot of us can't wait to see all the info and spoilers about this product?

*** Funny I said spoilers since we already play the full game.

The preview we gave to Game Trade is a specially modified version of pages 10–13 of the Hero's Handbook from the Beginner Box. The only differences are:

Game Trade's page 10, at the top, says "This preview of the Pathfinder Beginner Box shows
the opening steps of character creation as found in the Hero’s Handbook." The actual product instead says "This book teaches you how to play the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. This first section walks you through creating a character."

Game Trade's page 13 ends: "What's Next? Pick up the complete Pathfinder
Roleplaying Game Beginner Box in October for the full rules to create your custom cleric,
fighter, rogue, or wizard!" The actual product instead says "What's Next? Turn to pages 14–15 for information on races—those pages tell you what to write on your character sheet and what to do next."

The Game Trade preview is now available here (6.9 MB zip PDF)