The Tome of Horrors Complete: Unlimited Edition (PFRPG) PDF

****½ (based on 8 ratings)

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The Tome of Horrors? But that’s been done already; why do it again? Well, actually it’s been done three times, but never like this. With the advent of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game as the newest torchbearer for the world’s most popular role-playing game, we need monsters—lots of monsters. That’s where The Tome of Horrors Complete delivers in spades. Starting from the original Tome written with the 3rd Edition rules along with the later releases of Tomes 2 and 3 for version 3.5, Necromancer Games was in the unique position to bring you updates of the classic monsters not formally released by the OGL, as well as, loads of new ones never sprung upon unsuspecting players before. So well received have these monsters been by the gaming community, that this open content has appeared again and again in game publications by other companies including updates to the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game system and even appearances in its own Bestiaries.

Why stop there? Never before have all three volumes been updated to the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game in their entirety and released as a single, hardbound tome. Monsters from the aberrant to the yellow musk zombie appear in this book, and everything in between—that’s over 700 monsters. But that’s not all; the appendices bring just as much to the table from templates to hazards to a treatise on poison variations in nearly 50 types of venomous snakes. There are also new feats, planes of existence, strange beings beyond mortal ken, and plenty of charts dividing the compiled monsters by CR, type, and terrain.

So you’ve got the monsters—both from the original edition of the game and new—the templates, the multiple appendices on rules, planes, and the n’gathau, and a truckload of sample encounters and lairs to throw at your players, all together in one easy-to-use book. That’s why we call it The Tome of Horrors Complete!

Note: This product is the same as The Tome of Horrors Complete. Only the cover image has changed to indicate the second printing.

The PDF version includes the sample monster lairs and encounters from the Swords & Wizardry version of the Tome of Horrors Complete.

Product Availability

Fulfilled immediately.

Are there errors or omissions in this product information? Got corrections? Let us know at store@paizo.com.

FGGTOHPF2E


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****½ (based on 8 ratings)

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Overall it's good, but some major downfalls

***( )( )

I have the limited edition print version of this, and honestly I regret buying the print copy. The stats are great, just as deadly as they're supposed to be, but the real problem I have with it is white space.

There is a lot of white space in this book. They used the original artwork and the Bestiary's formatting of one creature per page or spread and while overall its fine it would have been nice to have some new artwork to fill the gaps or even extended ecology entries.

So 5 stars for stat blocks, -2 stars for white space.

The PDF at $29.99 is a very good deal, but $100+ for the hard cover is not.


Tome of horrors

***( )( )

First off let me say that i like this book a lot. It has tons of monsters and any of the copied monsters from other places have different stats so it can be a nice change of pace to toss in a tome of horror monster.

The art in the book ranges from great to bad but that doesn't matter too much for me. Because i think pathfinder is a game best left in your imagination anyway.

Why 3 stars?
First the CR of the monsters is wrong in many cases. For example a CR 5 Black Skeleton in the tome, has dr 10/ bludgeoning and good. What kind of CR 5 has a DR with AND that is too strong at a CR 5. So you have to be very careful using this book, because they didn't play test these monsters very much. Also there are a ton of monsters over CR 20 and pathfinder doesn't have a epic level book at this time. (could be a few years yet) so all these monsters with very high CR (even one with a 39) you can't even use with your parties. Its neat that there are monsters out there that are that nasty but i can't use them for years if ever (paizo may not release a epic lvl book)

So overall i am not too happy with this book as the CR of the monsters isn't right in many cases and many of the monsters are too high of CR with the current pathfinder rules. For 110$ i would have liked to see monsters that were play tester better and i would have liked to keep the CR of the monsters in the book no high then around a CR 23 or so, as beyond that point you can't even fight them without hacked crazy characters.


Great book.

****( )

I've been meaning to buy the original three books this one replaces for a long time. I've just never gotten around to it and then I would have had to convert the stats all to Pathfinder stats to use them in Pathfinder. Now that's all been done for me and it's all in one handy tome! I am so glad all these great monsters are now in one book.

My only real gripe is the 17 pages of advertising I had to pay for in the back of the book. I don't mind a page or two, but 17 pages is just ridiculous, even in a book this size. For that reason it only gets 4 stars from me. Fortunately I purchased the print edition and got the pdf version with it. The PDF also contains some web enhancements as well, so it takes away the sting some.


TOME of HORRORS by Paizo

*****

PERFECTION at its best. Great job by Bill Webb and the gang at FGG. This is a super book and nothing can touch it. If I could give it 10 stars, I would. Enough on that ;D
------------------------------------------------

- TOAD, The Tome of Adventure Design - It is an ok book but the ULTIMATE TOOLBOX is much more superior than TOAD.


10 Facts about Tome of Horrors, Complete, and Frog God Games

*****

#10 This is CR 20 book. It's a small Chaotic Evil construct with ability to bring forth horrors from its pages. It can also swallow human-sized readers. See page 9 for more details.

#9 The lowest CR creature is a bookworm at 1/8, while the highest, at CR 39, is Lucifer. Oh, and in between you have 749 other creatures.

#8 The creatures, and their art, were drawn from Tomes of Horrors published over the years by Necromancer Games. That means that creature art was reused and some creatures do not follow Pathfinder guidelines as to their CR or abilities ("some" as in "found only two wonky specimens"). The former is a non-issue for me (I do not own previous editions), the latter is rare to the point of non-existent, and, as a GM, I tend to read statblocks so I can deal with any potential issues on the fly.

As an anecdote - what was the second monster book of d20, the third edition of our favorite game? According to Amazon, Monster Manual was released on 1st of October, 2000, and Creature Collection came out on the Oct 3rd, 2000.
The authors of CC: Clark Peterson and Bill Webb. Sounds familiar? Yep, founders of Necromancer Games and producers of Tome of Horror series.
For more on their current endeavors: Frog God Games (Bill Webb), Legendary Games (Clark Peterson).

Digression: Bill, and Clark, if I ever meet you in person, I'll make you sign this Creature Collection of mine. Or at least strongly entreat you to do so.

#7 The book has been built to last. Cover and binding appear to be extremely durable. The pages themselves are delicate.

#6 The majority of creatures presented are horrors. That is, they are quite impossible to reason with. Unfortunately, for the players, those capable of business interactions, are most likely to be demons, devils or fey. Exceptions are rare.

#5 The PDF you get along with the book allows for very user friendly experience. The bookmarks are organized as follows:
- Cover
- Credits
- Table of Contents
- Introduction by Greg A. Vaughan
- Forward by James Jacobs
- The Tome of Horrors Complete
- - (alphabetical listing of, well, letters)
- - - (noun, adjective noun)
- Appendix A: Animals
- Appendix B: Templates
- Appendix C: Hazards
- Appendix D: Variant Snake Venoms
- Appendix E: N'gathau
- Appendix F: Planes of Existence
- Appendix G: New Feats and Subtypes
- Appendix H: Monster by Type and CR
- Legal Appendix
- Back Cover

#4 N'gathau? Have you heard about Hellraiser? And since we're talking about movie inspirations - watch Ravenous, by Antonia Bird. The template is to be found in Appendix B, page 732.

#3 Free stuff to complement the book:
- Lairs: PDF, 127 pages of sample lairs and encounters. System independent.
- Monsters by terrain: PDF, pretty self-explanatory and very useful.

#2 Think that the Tome of Horrors is going to be the biggest book of the d20 market? Slumbering Tsar hardcover is likely to be even bigger. Also by Frog God Games:
- The Slumbering Tsar Saga, a sandbox adventure set in killing fields.

Since we're talking about Frog God Games essentials, you may want to preorder
- TOAD, The Tome of Adventure Design (PDF available now, the book later) - 308 pages of tables for random stuff, like these: Ship Reputations (d100), Ship Cargo (d100) and Unusual Pirates (d100). The selling point? My players hit 14th level. They like to travel a lot... this book is going to be my adventure-in-a-bottle answer to their Wind-Walk escapades.

#1 The limited version book came with an autograph of Bill Webb. Thank you for such a personal touch. For more personal touches:
- Tsathogga, The Frog God, CR 30, page 190
- Gargax the Mighty, Master of the Dungeon Dragons, Great Wyrm Dungeon Dragon (Draco Carcer Dominus), CR 17, page 228

From Gargax entry:
"Watching adventurers explore its catacomb is the only real treasure a dungeon dragon desires."

Verdict: It's over nine thousaaaaand... ahem, 5 stars.

Regards,
Ruemere

Edit note: cleaned review a bit.


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Contributor

Now available!

The Exchange

Took a long time to clear credit card authorization -- probably a lot of people checking out at once -- but I am pre-ordered. Woot!

Sovereign Court

Woot X 2...

And thanks to Frog God Games and Paizo...

Frog God Games

Time Bandit wrote:


Woot X 2...

And thanks to Frog God Games and Paizo...

The big folks are busy, so us little folks'll say "Yer welcome".

And don't underestimate Paizo's involvement in this. I'm not at liberty to say exactly why, but it's fantastic how much they believe in this book.

Consider my cap duffed to Lisa, Erik and company for all they've done.


And preordered! Now I can keep my copy of the limited edition in perfect condition when it arrives and use the unlimited edition for gameplay.

Thank you Paizo and Frog God Games!

Scarab Sages

I probably should have asked this before submitting my Print/PDF bundle preorder, but any chance of a discount for those of us with the PDF of the "Limited Edition"?

Scarab Sages

(Just curious. I'll perfectly understand if that's a "No". 8^)

Frog God Games

Arazyr wrote:
I probably should have asked this before submitting my Print/PDF bundle preorder, but any chance of a discount for those of us with the PDF of the "Limited Edition"?

The answer is a "no", but not a harsh one. <smile>

We just received confirmation from our printer that they will be shipping Tome of Horrors Complete: Unlimited Edition on Oct. 11. So hopefully those ordering will get their copies on or about All Hallow's Eve.

Contributor

Arazyr wrote:
I probably should have asked this before submitting my Print/PDF bundle preorder, but any chance of a discount for those of us with the PDF of the "Limited Edition"?

Customer Service will be happy to switch you over from the first printing version of the PDF to the second printing Print/PDF bundle, but you will need to contact them after placing your preorder. You can contact them through the Customer Service boards here, or send them an email to customer.service@paizo.com .

Shadow Lodge

One note on the product description. The S&W version is not, so far as I understand it, being reprinted. So copy/pasting the information about that version might be a bit misleading.

Contributor

Kthulhu wrote:
One note on the product description. The S&W version is not, so far as I understand it, being reprinted. So copy/pasting the information about that version might be a bit misleading.

Good point—I've edited the description. :)


@Liz

This might be nit-picky but on the last sentence of the description it mentions monsters from both the original and the new as well as the lairs.

Perhaps delete - "both from the original edition of the game and new" and "a truckload of sample encounters and lairs to throw at your players".

Maybe add back the link to Frog God Games with mention of the free downloads of the lairs and monsters by terrain.

Thanks with high regards!

Contributor

Zarathos wrote:

@Liz

This might be nit-picky but on the last sentence of the description it mentions monsters from both the original and the new as well as the lairs.

Perhaps delete - "both from the original edition of the game and new" and "a truckload of sample encounters and lairs to throw at your players".

Maybe add back the link to Frog God Games with mention of the free downloads of the lairs and monsters by terrain.

Thanks with high regards!

The PDF of this and the first printing PDFs now contain the supplemental material that was available at Frog God Games. :)

Edit: I've updated the product descriptions to reflect the changes.


And I was going to buy more map packs for October... Can't wait for my next paycheck!


@Liz

That's great that your PDF added the supplemental free downloads. In fact, I added them myself to the pdf copy I got from Frog God Games.

Now, I know that I am being nit-picky to the extreme, please forgive. However the last sentence of the description might lead one to believe that the print version had the supplements included.

Perhaps the last sentence should be written -- "The pdf version includes the sample monster lairs and encounters from the Swords & Wizardry version of the Tome of Horrors Complete."

Contributor

Zarathos wrote:

@Liz

That's great that your PDF added the supplemental free downloads. In fact, I added them myself to the pdf copy I got from Frog God Games.

Now, I know that I am being nit-picky to the extreme, please forgive. However the last sentence of the description might lead one to believe that the print version had the supplements included.

Perhaps the last sentence should be written -- "The pdf version includes the sample monster lairs and encounters from the Swords & Wizardry version of the Tome of Horrors Complete."

Fixed. Thanks for pointing that out Zarathos!

Dark Archive

Can someone give me an idea of how big this book is. Are we talking original Ptolus size?

Contributor

Jeremy Mcgillan wrote:
Can someone give me an idea of how big this book is. Are we talking original Ptolus size?

It's a bit bigger than Ptolus, but Ptolus used thicker paper (and was all in color). Tome of Horrors Complete is just under two inches thick and weighs about 4 3/4 pounds.


Just to clarify: Is this the same book and pdf that I bought earlier when Paizo first released it, re-done as the Unlimited Edition to have a second print run?

In other words: I am confused as to how this differs from the version I purchased before. If it is different, I'd like to know how. If it is a second print run because of runaway success, that's fantastic and I'm glad to see it do so well.

In the end, I'd like to get whatever the definitive Pathfinder release version is, and if necessary work out details with someone from CS. Could someone help sort me out?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Modules Subscriber
Jeremy Mcgillan wrote:
Can someone give me an idea of how big this book is. Are we talking original Ptolus size?

From what I hear, slightly bigger. My Ptolus PDF appears to be 780 pages, my Tome of Horrors PDF is 818 pages. How many inches the spine is depends on paper weight, but I'm guessing they will be close in size. (Since it hasn't arrived for me, I can't compare the physical books yet.)

Edit: Ninja'd by Liz, the webstore Ninja.

Contributor

Radu the Wanderer wrote:

Just to clarify: Is this the same book and pdf that I bought earlier when Paizo first released it, re-done as the Unlimited Edition to have a second print run?

In other words: I am confused as to how this differs from the version I purchased before. If it is different, I'd like to know how. If it is a second print run because of runaway success, that's fantastic and I'm glad to see it do so well.

In the end, I'd like to get whatever the definitive Pathfinder release version is, and if necessary work out details with someone from CS. Could someone help sort me out?

The only physical difference between the first version and the Unlimited Version is the cover. Everything else is exactly the same.

Scarab Sages

Radu the Wanderer wrote:
If it is a second print run because of runaway success, that's fantastic and I'm glad to see it do so well.

This.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Modules Subscriber
Radu the Wanderer wrote:
In other words: I am confused as to how this differs from the version I purchased before. If it is different, I'd like to know how. If it is a second print run because of runaway success, that's fantastic and I'm glad to see it do so well.

All of the inside contents are identical. The only difference is the color is silver to differentiate from the first printing, as seen above.

Edit: Ninja'd by Liz again. I should stop answering these questions and get back to my real job. ;)


Great. Thank you for helping clear that up for me. It looks like I'll have to tell all my friends who missed out on the first run.

Shadow Lodge

Radu the Wanderer wrote:
Just to clarify: Is this the same book and pdf that I bought earlier when Paizo first released it, re-done as the Unlimited Edition to have a second print run?

Just to clarify, Frog God Games released this book, not Paizo. But from what I've gathered, Paizo was very helpful in making this reprint a reality.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Has demand crashed the web store? I can't check out :(


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm debating on purchasing another copy.

I ordered two of the limited (although one was as a gift). But I am thinking about ordering another, just to have as a back up. I know the binding is excellent on it, but I have a feeling, even being unlimited, this is not going to be a 'green' book (being reprinted in the future).

Or am I wrong?

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Tales Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Hobbun wrote:

I'm debating on purchasing another copy.

I ordered two of the limited (although one was as a gift). But I am thinking about ordering another, just to have as a back up. I know the binding is excellent on it, but I have a feeling, even being unlimited, this is not going to be a 'green' book (being reprinted in the future).

Or am I wrong?

Been thinking the same thing... I also own 2 of the Limited so I had a Backup just in case one went bad... But then Bill had to go Sign the Limited ones they where directly shipping and ruined that plan because I don't like using Signed books for regular play!!!!


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Dragnmoon wrote:
Hobbun wrote:

I'm debating on purchasing another copy.

I ordered two of the limited (although one was as a gift). But I am thinking about ordering another, just to have as a back up. I know the binding is excellent on it, but I have a feeling, even being unlimited, this is not going to be a 'green' book (being reprinted in the future).

Or am I wrong?

Been thinking the same thing... I also own 2 of the Limited so I had a Backup just in case one went bad... But then Bill had to go Sign the Limited ones they where directly shipping and ruined that plan because I don't like using Signed books for regular play!!!!

Yeah, I understand. I am the same way with my signed books. I actually ordered a copy of the Unlimited version and will keep my Limited and signed copy on the shelf.

I hope this run sells out as well for FGG, would be great for them. I am curious to know how many were printed for the Unlimited run. But I also understand that info not wanting to be given out.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Now that the book is out there, it's time for some good old criticism, because everyone seems to be gushing over and I do oh so love to be the proverbial fly in the ointment.

Monadic Deva (B2) vs. Monadic Deva (TOHC)
CR: 12 - 12
HP: 147 - 95
Attacks: +22/+17/+12 vs. +20/+15

Piscodaemon (B2) vs. Piscodaemon (TOHC)

Identical in almost every respect.

Why is the Piscy pretty much lifted out of B2 (which is very good, IMO, as I hate having zillion versions of the same monster floating around), while the Deva has massive differences while retaining the same CR?

Frog God Games

I will have to pointedly say nothing at this time.

About the future of the product, not what the bag of devouring snuck in while I was posting.

Frog God Games

Gorbacz wrote:

Now that the book is out there, it's time for some good old criticism, because everyone seems to be gushing over and I do oh so love to be the proverbial fly in the ointment.

Monadic Deva (B2) vs. Monadic Deva (TOHC)
CR: 12 - 12
HP: 147 - 95
Attacks: +22/+17/+12 vs. +20/+15

Piscodaemon (B2) vs. Piscodaemon (TOHC)

Identical in almost every respect.

Why is the Piscy pretty much lifted out of B2 (which is very good, IMO, as I hate having zillion versions of the same monster floating around), while the Deva has massive differences while retaining the same CR?

Because we had a gaggle of conversion writers. Some worked with what was already done while others didn't (and some purposefully didn't).

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Chuck Wright wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:

Now that the book is out there, it's time for some good old criticism, because everyone seems to be gushing over and I do oh so love to be the proverbial fly in the ointment.

Monadic Deva (B2) vs. Monadic Deva (TOHC)
CR: 12 - 12
HP: 147 - 95
Attacks: +22/+17/+12 vs. +20/+15

Piscodaemon (B2) vs. Piscodaemon (TOHC)

Identical in almost every respect.

Why is the Piscy pretty much lifted out of B2 (which is very good, IMO, as I hate having zillion versions of the same monster floating around), while the Deva has massive differences while retaining the same CR?

Because we had a gaggle of conversion writers. Some worked with what was already done while others didn't (and some purposefully didn't).

That I understand, but in some cases, the CRs end up way off the scale. The Deva, as written, qualifies for CR 8-9 monster, according to the monster building guidelines in PF Bestiary.

Problem is - if I use something out of a book, I'd love to be sure that it works as intended instead of having to double check CRs and stuff. That's what I love about Paizo bestiaries, they have an outstanding CR accuracy, something that was always horribly sloppy in WotC books (hello, Monster Manual Ogre Mage?)


Fantastic. So very preordered.

Can't wait to see it. ^.^


I'm NOT dilly-dalling a second time... pre-odred! yabba-dabba-doo!
The check-out did take a looong time. Perhaps another sales record for the ToHC? Now to wait... First on the personalizer, then on the mailman... Thanks Paizo & FGG for making this happen!

Tom

Contributor

Just a fair warning for those that are considering ordering the Tome...

You must finish the checkout process to preorder and reserve a copy of this book.

Simply adding it to your cart will not guarantee or reserve a copy for you.

Dark Archive

Hell yes I'll preorder.

*nabs a copy*

Thank you so very, very much for doing another run on this.

*runs off to do an evil dance of glee*


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

If we have to preorder, what is the deadline to get the book? The last time this book was available, I could not afford to get it and I still can't right now. However, I really would like to get it. How much time do I have to adjust my budget?


Ashanderai wrote:
If we have to preorder, what is the deadline to get the book? The last time this book was available, I could not afford to get it and I still can't right now. However, I really would like to get it. How much time do I have to adjust my budget?

I believe the only deadline is them selling out. A set number are already being printed in this 2nd print run. It is a preorder as opposed to a regular order solely because the books are not yet available to send out yet.

It is not a preorder in the sense that they want to tally all of the preorders and then order that many books. The books have already been ordered. If you wait on this there is a very good chance you will miss it.


Gorbacz wrote:
Chuck Wright wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:

Now that the book is out there, it's time for some good old criticism, because everyone seems to be gushing over and I do oh so love to be the proverbial fly in the ointment.

Monadic Deva (B2) vs. Monadic Deva (TOHC)
CR: 12 - 12
HP: 147 - 95
Attacks: +22/+17/+12 vs. +20/+15

Piscodaemon (B2) vs. Piscodaemon (TOHC)

Identical in almost every respect.

Why is the Piscy pretty much lifted out of B2 (which is very good, IMO, as I hate having zillion versions of the same monster floating around), while the Deva has massive differences while retaining the same CR?

Because we had a gaggle of conversion writers. Some worked with what was already done while others didn't (and some purposefully didn't).

That I understand, but in some cases, the CRs end up way off the scale. The Deva, as written, qualifies for CR 8-9 monster, according to the monster building guidelines in PF Bestiary.

Problem is - if I use something out of a book, I'd love to be sure that it works as intended instead of having to double check CRs and stuff. That's what I love about Paizo bestiaries, they have an outstanding CR accuracy, something that was always horribly sloppy in WotC books (hello, Monster Manual Ogre Mage?)

As one of the authors, I can only speak for myself; I have never seen all orcs as being the same, all hill giants being the same, and certainly not every dark crrper and dalk stalker are the same. Thats just not the way of it. I agree drastic variations may cause a DM to compensate one way or the other, but do you really want your PCs to know what there facing as soon as you describe something? I certainly dont in my game.

Anyway, thats my 2 cents....

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Skeeter Green wrote:


Anyway, thats my 2 cents....

That's not the point. The point is, if I want to have my players face a challenge of CR: X (and with the correct treasure and XP for it), I want the monster to have stats that correspond to CR: X and not X-2 or X+2.

And I prefer that monster to have those stats right out of the box, I don't buy bestiaries so that I have to double-check everything I use.

To illustrate my point: Xanesha from Skinsaw Murders. Hell as no way near the printed CR. Much gnashing teeth and complaints in Obituaries threads follow.

There are several other monsters in TOHC that have wonky CR. Demonic Knight, for example.

Shadow Lodge

Gorbacz wrote:
Skeeter Green wrote:


Anyway, thats my 2 cents....

That's not the point. The point is, if I want to have my players face a challenge of CR: X (and with the correct treasure and XP for it), I want the monster to have stats that correspond to CR: X and not X-2 or X+2.

And I prefer that monster to have those stats right out of the box, I don't buy bestiaries so that I have to double-check everything I use.

To illustrate my point: Xanesha from Skinsaw Murders. Hell as no way near the printed CR. Much gnashing teeth and complaints in Obituaries threads follow.

There are several other monsters in TOHC that have wonky CR. Demonic Knight, for example.

There are several creatures in the Paizo Bestiaries/products that have wonky CRs as well. Hell, your example is straight out of a Paizo product. Assigning a CR is as much an art as a science, and not everyone is going to agree on all things. I'd be vastly surprised if in a book that's as big as two and half of Paizo's Bestiaries you didn't find a monster or three that the CR is a bit screwy (at least in your opinion).

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Kthulhu wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Skeeter Green wrote:


Anyway, thats my 2 cents....

That's not the point. The point is, if I want to have my players face a challenge of CR: X (and with the correct treasure and XP for it), I want the monster to have stats that correspond to CR: X and not X-2 or X+2.

And I prefer that monster to have those stats right out of the box, I don't buy bestiaries so that I have to double-check everything I use.

To illustrate my point: Xanesha from Skinsaw Murders. Hell as no way near the printed CR. Much gnashing teeth and complaints in Obituaries threads follow.

There are several other monsters in TOHC that have wonky CR. Demonic Knight, for example.

There are several creatures in the Paizo Bestiaries/products that have wonky CRs as well. Hell, your example is straight out of a Paizo product. Assigning a CR is as much an art as a science, and not everyone is going to agree on all things. I'd be vastly surprised if in a book that's as big as two and half of Paizo's Bestiaries you didn't find a monster or three that the CR is a bit screwy (at least in your opinion).

That's the funny thing, both B1 and B2 have excellent CR accuracy. Jason established the monster creation guidelines and made sure every monster sticks to them. If you can find me a monster that falls out of the line with its CR in Pathfinder Bestiaries, you're welcome (and no, "for sure there's one" and "i'd be vastly surprised" don't count).

One of the greatest improvements of PF Bestiaries is elimination of 3.5 (and remember, Xanesha was a 3.5 monster) weirdness when it comes to CRs - no more Ogre Mages, Ropers, Dragons and several other creatures being way out of the printed CR range.

Liberty's Edge

Can you PLEASE make this one available in the UK?

I did not order the last one because while I am willing to pay the 99$, the 50$ shipping costs push this beyond reasonable price. I did ask gameslore in the UK if they could get it and they told me no copies were available in the UK.

Please remember us with this print run? Its always rather annoying to be forgotten. There are a lot of fans in the UK, and its rather unfair to leave us out of it.

Aurore


Aurore wrote:

Can you PLEASE make this one available in the UK?

I did not order the last one because while I am willing to pay the 99$, the 50$ shipping costs push this beyond reasonable price. I did ask gameslore in the UK if they could get it and they told me no copies were available in the UK.

Hear, hear!

I would order a copy right now if the shipping wasn't this high. I would order through Amazon if it was available through their store (no shipping).

There are a lot (!) of gamers in Europe. Please have an online store available the sells with low shipping costs. Amazon.de/co.uk is great, so is Bookdepository.co.uk. They might even cut you a better deal :)

Thanks,

Henk

Dark Archive

Aurore wrote:

Can you PLEASE make this one available in the UK?

I did not order the last one because while I am willing to pay the 99$, the 50$ shipping costs push this beyond reasonable price. I did ask gameslore in the UK if they could get it and they told me no copies were available in the UK.

Please remember us with this print run? Its always rather annoying to be forgotten. There are a lot of fans in the UK, and its rather unfair to leave us out of it.

Aurore

I ordered the limited edition through Paizo and paid much less for shipping to Germany. You might want to give it a try. Put it in your basket and see how much the shipping would be.

Liberty's Edge

Plus add a single item to it and you might save $10 for being over $100 total.

Probably have to be a book or media mail type thing though.


Missed the first run, but got my pre-order in for the second. Thanks to both FGG and Paizo!


I missed the first print , added to my chart the second , but will only by in november ( lack of money now ).

Grand Lodge

kaymanklynman wrote:
I missed the first print , added to my chart the second , but will only by in november ( lack of money now ).

If you wait, you'll likely miss this one too...

Liz Courts wrote:

Just a fair warning for those that are considering ordering the Tome...

You must finish the checkout process to preorder and reserve a copy of this book.

Simply adding it to your cart will not guarantee or reserve a copy for you.

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