Sorcerer's Options: Beyond Bloodlines (PFRPG) PDF

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Sorcerers are set apart from most other spellcasters by being creatures with vast and growing natural magic powers, closer in concept to monsters than the sages of study and learning epitomized by wizards or the agents of divinity that make up the ranks of clerics, druids, inquisitors, oracles and paladins. Even witches and bards are normally presented as drawing on power that originates outside them (from a patron or the power of music, respectively), rather than having power grow from within them. Only sorcerers are commonly presented as having truly innate magic powers which are the legacy of a mystic heritage or special destiny.

The strongest indications of this legacy are the powers granted by a sorcerer’s bloodline. Each bloodline affects a sorcerer’s spells known, class skills, potential training (in the form of bonus feats), special powers, and even how the sorcerer casts spells (as modified by bloodline arcana). Bloodlines are an awesome, flexible, flavorful element of the sorcerer class. As a result, nearly all efforts to create new rule variants for sorcerers do so by creating new sorcerous bloodlines.

That’s fine, as far as it goes. But is that the only way to make sorcerers different? Should these heroes who have magic itself coursing through their veins not have access to any special abilities beyond what their heritage powers grant them? Why can’t sorcerers learn to use their innate spells in whole new ways, develop weird quirks of magic power, or have alternate class abilities similar to the archetypes of other classes? In short, why can’t a sorcerer’s options go beyond bloodlines?

Sorcerer’s Options: Beyond Bloodlines is designed to expand the alternate rules that can be used to make two sorcerers different, even if they select the same bloodline. It does this by presenting arcane endowments (special powers available only to sorcerers, representing quirks in their inherited powers), sorcery spells (arcane spells available only to sorcerers), and alternate class powers built on the model of class archetypes (first presented in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Advanced Player’s Guide).

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An excellent resource for Sorcerer players

5/5

Sorcerer's Option: Beyond Bloodlines is a must buy for any Sorcerer player whose GM will allow them use of the product's contents. Too often, the only options for customizing sorcerers come down to choosing a different bloodline than another, focusing on a different feat chain, or choosing spells from the same list as the Wizard, who can learn and prepare them more easily. This book, however, provides new options for the class that are split into three sections: Arcane Endowments, Sorcerer-only spells, and Sorcerer Archetypes.

The introductory text is short, sweet, to the point, and makes it very clear what you're getting out of the product. It's flavorful but not so padded as to make you wonder why they don't just get to the point.

Arcane Endowments, however, are the first bit of crunch to the book, and you get to them right on the second page. Similar to Arcane Discoveries for Wizards, Arcane Endowments are special powers that Sorcerers can develop (as opposed to study) in order to enhance their spellcasting or make better use of their abilities in general. They're chosen by optionally giving up feats at given levels, with multiclass Sorcerers being limited on total amount based on their Sorcerer level. Most of them are incredibly flavorful and useful, with some granting limited use of 'automatic' metamagic (that is, metamagic that doesn't increase casting time or spell level) per day, granting spells outside of the Sorcerer's normal spell list, or allowing the Sorcerer to use spell energy to heal themselves. This is easily the best section of the book, and past a minor mechanical issue (see below), I have absolutely nothing bad to say about it.

The next section is for Sorcery Spells, which contains a list of Sorcerer spells that, like Mnemonic Enhancer for Wizard, are for only one class, instead of both the Wizard and Sorcerer. These spells for the most part revolve around either affecting the way your bloodline spells or powers work, putting them to new use, or changing up your spells known in some way. While I like these spells, some of them feel like they should be either feats or further arcane endowments. Still, some of them are fairly interesting, like Symbol of Sorcery, which allows you to 'store' a bloodline spell as a magical trap. A good section, and I'm glad to have the options, it just seems like they stretched just a little bit to make them all fit as spells.

Finally, they give us three archetypes of the Sorcerer (called Alternative Class Powers): the Bedreven, Scourge, and Strega. The Bedreven is essentially a Sorcerer that studies sorcery itself, granting the powers of a Sorcerer while relying more on intelligence. In addition, they use a spell point sort of system, which is interesting but might be just a little too flexible when compared to the default Sorcerer. The Scourge is essentially a battle Sorcerer, becoming a 6 level caster but gaining some fairly potent benefits to assist them in combat. Obviously, any loss of spell levels is a huge hit, so it's unlikely a good option for anyone wanting the typical 'god caster' feel of a Sorcerer, but seems perfect for someone who wants a spontaneous equivalent to the Magus. Finally, there's the Strega, a very simple archetype that grants the Sorcerer witch Hexes; flavorful and interesting, if a little simplistic overall.

There's a few mechanical issues that need to be fixed. Natural Sorcery, an Arcane Endowment, does not explain how the spell slots affect the power's damage, for instance. They did answer this in an unofficial capacity on Paizo's site, but the PDF could definitely use an update to reflect the clarification. In addition, the archetypes do not explicitly say what class features are changed or replaced, and while you can make guesses based on the way they work, it might make things difficult for those wanting to mix archetypes. Finally, the bedreven archetype itself says that the bedreven gains additional 'spells known' from its bloodline when talking about class skills, where they likely meant that they gain a class skill based on their bloodline like any other sorcerer. All minor issues, but would benefit from some official errata.

Overall, while the spells are a bit stretched and the book clearly needs an update or errata, this is an excellent pdf, and one I'd recommend for absolutely anyone that plays a sorcerer and wants more options for customization.


The best Sorceror-book out there.

5/5

This pdf is 11 pages long, 2/3 of a page front cover, 1 page editorial & SRD, leaving 9 1/3 pages of content for the sorceror.

Sorcerors have become much more iconic in PFRPG than in the 3.5 days of old, thanks to a massive support of their bloodline-class features. Unfortunately, most of the support centered on providing only these. This genius guide seeks to bring more diverse options for the sorceror and begins by introducing a new concept, so-called arcane endowments. These can be taken instead of feats and correspond roughly in power to a feat or oracle revelation. 18 arcane endowments are presented and mostly cover quite interesting and iconic options: From sacrificing spell slots to heal yourself and end detrimental conditions to using your Cha-mod instead of Int for knowledge skills, adding spells from other spell-lists and limited, albeit more versatile uses of metamagic spell forming to a limited sideboard of additional spells that are somewhat reminiscent of a DIY-domain, the options are versatile, iconic and ooze sorceror flair and panache.

Much to my excitement, we also get 10 new spells exclusive for the sorceror. I think that with the 3 arcane base-classes, we desperately need more class-specific spells to make them more distinct and Beyond Bloodlines delivers with the sanguine spells that prematurely and temporarily unlock bloodline powers or even lend them to others, a symbol-spell based on your bloodline bonus spells and the very powerful and cool transfiguration that changes your spellcaster-list and lets you draw from another kind of spellcaster. Very cool!

The pdf does not stop there, but instead provides us with three alternate classes/archetypes, one of which is simple, one medium in complexity and one quite complex: The Bedreven is the complex one and offers us a variant of the sorceror that casts via a spell-pool and is more versatile than the sorceror, but at the cost of some raw power. If you've read my review of "New Arcane Discoveries" and my praise for the Zauberer-archetype therein, you can imagine that my praise for this one is no less pronounced. To make it short, the Bedreven is worth the price of the pdf alone. The Scourge is a kind of sorcerous bard that does not use the bard's spell-list, but the sorceror's and pays for this advantage with less skills. It's another take on the gish-type and not a bad one. Not one I'd recommend either, though. The Strega, the final archetype, is rather simple and gains limited access to some hexes, which blurs the class-lines and does not appeal to me that much, but oh well.

Conclusion:
Editing and formatting are very good - although I did notice minor punctuation errors, nothing grievous caught my attention. The pdf comes with neat artworks (some of which stock as far as I could tell), no bookmarks and layout adheres to the 3-column standard by SGG. Sorceror's Options is what I cherish about Super Genius Games in a nutshell - while they mostly lack fluff, they often produce awesome crunch, concisely presented for an affordable price. Beyond Bloodlines enriches the sorceror beyond its usual support and I'm sincerely hoping we'll get to see more pdfs like this one for other classes. My final verdict for this excellent little supplement will be 5 stars.
Endzeitgeist out.


An RPG Resource Review

5/5

Sorcerers, as the Introduction points out, are unique amongst spellcasters because their magic comes from within themselves, an innate power. Not something bestowed by a deity, powered through music, drawn from their surroundings or learned from a book. Yet nearly everything written about them either lumps them in with other arcanists or never gets further than talking about bloodlines. So the purpose of this work is to present some different options for a sorcerer - arcane endowments, sorcerer-specific spells and alternative class powers - so that, whilst important, bloodline is not the only defining feature of your sorcerer.

First up, arcane endowments represent additional powers that a sorcerer may develop as he gains in experience. Mechanically, an endowment can be taken any time a level taken as a sorcerer would allow selection of an additional feat, and it replaces that feat. The options are quite interesting, including the ability to absorb temporarily a spell that is cast at you and being able to cast it yourself... provided you do so before you next prepare your mind for the next day's spells. Or perhaps you'd like the ability to occasionally re-roll a saving throw, cast a spell you'd not normally get the opportunity to learn or use spell energy to heal yourself - there are quite a few options here. Most are quite mechanical, and will need some thought to enable you to describe in character what your powers are and how you use them.

Next, the new spells. Normally, sorcerers use the same spell lists as wizards, even if the way that they prepare and cast them are different. The spells presented here are designed around the game mechanics pertaining to sorcerers, or the underlying rationale for how this class works, and so are not suitable for other casters (however curious they might get over what your sorcerer is getting up to in the corner!). For example, you can curse someone so that whenever a spell or power appropriate to your bloodline is used on them - whether by you or someone else - they suffer penalties to saving throws and armour class as they attempt to defend themselves. Other spells revolve around bloodlines as well, enhancing or replacing abilities, even allowing you to loan them temporarily to another creature.

Finally, alternate class powers are based on the archetype concept, allowing you to put a different spin on your character irrespective of the bloodline that he has. The bedreven has studied the powers and abilities available to sorcerers to such an extent that he gains similar powers, making spells a part of himself and casting them by will alone - mechanically, he uses a spell point system to determine what he can cast and so can be even more flexible in choice of spells provided that he has the points left to cast the chosen spell. A scourge is a sorcerer who has honed the combat elemments of his spellcasting abilities, becoming an embodiment of destructive arcane power. He can protect himself with light armour and a shield without suffering any chance of spell failure, but unlike a magus (who combines actual martial skills with magic use) the scourge's concentration is on his spellcasting alone. Last up is the strega, who combines sorcerous abilities with those of a witch.

This is a refreshingly different look at the sorcerer class, and ought to provide a few ideas for anyone looking to run a sorcerer who is that little bit different.


Nice options for Sorcerers

5/5

Sorcerer Options: Beyond Bloodlines by Super Genius Games

This product is 11 pages long. It starts with a cover and forward. (1 pages)

Sorcerer Endowments (3 pages)
Arcane Endowments are special abilities Sorcerers can learn in place of feats at levels 1, 3, 7, 11, 15, and 19. There is 18 such new abilities, they are made to be on par with Oracle mysteries. A couple of examples.
Adaptive Caster – a few times a day can add a limited selection of meta-magic feats to a spell.
Arcane Oddity – can learn a spell not from the wizard/Sorcerer spell list. It becomes one level higher than it's original spell level.
Internalize Spell – expand a spell to limited self heal.
Sorcerous Summoning – summoned creatures gain bloodline powers.

New Spells (2 ½ pages)
Ten new spells that are sorcerer only spells. They focus on bloodline powers, and the casting abilities of sorcerers. I liked all the spells in this section and they was very sorcerer in feel.

Alternate Class Powers (3 ½ pages)
These are basically 3 class archetypes for the Sorcerer.
Bedreven – A sorcerer that studies magic, similar to a wizard. They still cast like a sorcerer but with some alternations that are just to hard to explain in a review. Neat concept.
Scourge – a more melee focused sorcerer, getting bard spell progression they gain more hp, BaB, weapons and limited armor etc.
Strega – Born of a witch producing offspring with their patron. The gain limited number of hexes that, they power by using up spell slots to activate the hex. This is by far and away the coolest of the new archetypes.

It ends with a OGL and credits. (1 pages)

Closing thoughts. The art work is a mix of color and black and white, it ranges from ok to pretty good. Editing and layout where pretty good. The endowments where pretty well done and interesting. A couple of them I thought might should have had level requirements for but otherwise I have no issues with them. The spells where interesting and just fit the sorcerer very well. The Bedreven was interesting but more book keeping intense, like the idea but not sold yet on it's application. Will take some play testing for a bit to make up my mind. The Scourge is cool but kinda fills the same roll as the magus and I am not sure they do it as well. The Strega on the other hand is very well done. So what's my rating? For the most part I thought it was well done, interesting and often inventive. Not perfect though so I am going to give this one a 4.5 star review.

Trust me, I'm a Succubus.


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Scarab Sages

Available now at Paizo, Sorcerer's Options: Beyond Bloodlines is designed to expand the alternate rules that can be used to make two sorcerers different, even if they select the same bloodline. It does this by presenting arcane endowments (special powers available only to sorcerers, representing quirks in their inherited powers), sorcery spells (arcane spells available only to sorcerers), and alternate class powers built on the model of class archetypes (first presented in the Advanced Player's Guide).

Arcane Endowments
Arcane endowments are special powers sorcerers sometimes develop as their natural magic powers expand with experience and maturity.

Adaptive Caster
Arcanavore
Arcane Oddity
Arcane Resistance
Arcane Vengeance
Clandestine Arcana
Eldritch Wards
Exultant Casting
Hereditary Vitality
Instinctive Understanding
Internalize Spell
Planar Caster
Natural Sorcery
Signature Spell
Sorcerous Sideboard
Sorcerous Summoning
Spell Shaper
Target Refinement

Sorcery Spells
Ten spells, one for each spell level, designed specifically for sorcerers. These sorcerer-only spells play off either the game mechanics or thematic elements of the sorcerer class, and as such are not appropriate for use by wizards (or any other spellcasting classes).

Blood Curse
Mnemonic Alteration
Powerful Sorcery
Resistant Sorcery
Sanguine Boon
Sanguine Enhancement
Sanguine Focus
Sanguine Focus, Greater
Symbol of Sorcery

Transfiguration

Alternate Class Powers
As flexible and customizable as the sorcerer is, the class makes numerous assumptions about its role and style of play which may not match the preferences of every player. To create more options on what kinds of sorcerers are available, Sorcerer's Options: Beyond Bloodlines presents three archetypes — bedreven, scourge, and strega, that alter the powers, and even spellcasting ability, of the sorcerer class.

Go beyond bloodlines. Because there's more to a sorcerer than her heritage!

9.5 pages +0.5 pages of cover and 1 page of credits. (11 pages total)


This looks to be great. Can't wait until I can buy this.

Dark Archive

3 people marked this as a favorite.

So is Seoni a good example of a Sorceress with magical "endowments?" :D


Dark_Mistress wrote:
So is Seoni a good example of a Sorceress with magical "endowments?" :D

Why do you think she has such a high Charisma?


Dark_Mistress wrote:
So is Seoni a good example of a Sorceress with magical "endowments?" :D

You know, I saw this and just "bust"ed out laughing!

Scarab Sages

Dark_Mistress wrote:
So is Seoni a good example of a Sorceress with magical "endowments?" :D

Yep, it's a joke I was aware of. But the term makes sense, and feat, trait, ability, power, discovery, heritage, revelation, talent, skill, domain, and arcana are all taken by official Paizo rules, and I've used a fair number of synonyms in other SGG books I'd rather not duplicate.

If "endowment" was primarily used as slang referring to sizable secondary sexual attributes, I'd have gone with something else. But a quick search convinced me it was actually most commonly used in the financial sector and no one in the banks seemed to snicker, so I appropriated it. :)


and bought!! you had me at the title, just so happens the content seems good too, lol


You realize that buying your products cut into my Mt. Dew consumption, don't you? Maybe it's a good thing...cuz this new release is worth a Pitch Black any day!


I must say that I am a bit disappointed in this. Based on the title I was half expecting replacement powers for bloodlines.


Twin Dragons wrote:
I must say that I am a bit disappointed in this. Based on the title I was half expecting replacement powers for bloodlines.

Why? "Beyond Bloodlines" pretty clearly tells me it's options that aren't bloodlines. And the description at the beginning of this thread is even clearer-er.

Are you dissappointed now that you've read the extended description above and aren't going to buy the book because it's not what you want, or did you buy it and are dissappointed with what you got?


Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
Twin Dragons wrote:
I must say that I am a bit disappointed in this. Based on the title I was half expecting replacement powers for bloodlines.
Why? "Beyond Bloodlines" pretty clearly tells me it's options that aren't bloodlines. And the description at the beginning of this thread is even clearer-er.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I meant powers that completely replaced the Sorcerer bloodline mechanic.


Twin Dragons wrote:
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I meant powers that completely replaced the Sorcerer bloodline mechanic.

Oh! Okay, from just the title I can see that. Although myself, I think I'd see anything that repalced a bloodline as just another bloodline, unlike say the arcane discoveris and archetypes Wizards get in UM.

But the description above says it'll make two sorcerers different "even if they have the same bloodline," so I'm still curious if your dissappointment was pre- or post-purchase.

Sczarni

Twin Dragons wrote:
Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
Twin Dragons wrote:
I must say that I am a bit disappointed in this. Based on the title I was half expecting replacement powers for bloodlines.
Why? "Beyond Bloodlines" pretty clearly tells me it's options that aren't bloodlines. And the description at the beginning of this thread is even clearer-er.
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I meant powers that completely replaced the Sorcerer bloodline mechanic.

If I'm not mistaken, the regular SGG archetype system can replace a sorcerers bloodline "package" in general.


Frerezar wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, the regular SGG archetype system can replace a sorcerers bloodline "package" in general.

Yeah it can, but this book uses Paizo Archetypes, rather than SGG archetypes.

Though if what you want is to replace your bloodline, Twin Dragons, Frerezar is right, what you want it The Genius Guide to Arcane Archetypes, or the Genius Guide to Divine Archetypes.


Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
Twin Dragons wrote:
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I meant powers that completely replaced the Sorcerer bloodline mechanic.

Oh! Okay, from just the title I can see that. Although myself, I think I'd see anything that repalced a bloodline as just another bloodline, unlike say the arcane discoveris and archetypes Wizards get in UM.

But the description above says it'll make two sorcerers different "even if they have the same bloodline," so I'm still curious if your dissappointment was pre- or post-purchase.

Post-purchase. Guess I glazed over that section in the product description.


Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
Frerezar wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, the regular SGG archetype system can replace a sorcerers bloodline "package" in general.

Yeah it can, but this book uses Paizo Archetypes, rather than SGG archetypes.

Though if what you want is to replace your bloodline, Twin Dragons, Frerezar is right, what you want it The Genius Guide to Arcane Archetypes, or the Genius Guide to Divine Archetypes.

Nabbed! Thanks for the heads up!


This book looks good. And pardon me for asking this here, but how long is the half-off sale going to be going on?

Scarab Sages

Monkeygod wrote:
and bought!! you had me at the title

That's good to know, actually, because this was (literally) my 14th working title. :)

DungeonmasterCal wrote:
You realize that buying your products cut into my Mt. Dew consumption, don't you? Maybe it's a good thing...cuz this new release is worth a Pitch Black any day!

Sorry, DMCal. I never mean to get between a gamer and the consumption of Mt. Dew. I'm glad you find the trade-off worthwhile!

Twin Dragons wrote:
Post-purchase. Guess I glazed over that section in the product description.

Hey Twin Dragons, I'm really sorry this wasn't the material you were looking for (though I'm thrilled a couple of other patrons pointed you to our archetypes books). I always want my customers to feel like they got their money's worth. If you remain disappointed about Sorcerer's Options: Beyond Bloodlines and don't feel you'll get any use out of it, drop me a line at owen (at) supergeniusgames (cot) com, and I'll get you a refund or replacement PDF.

Eric Hinkle wrote:
This book looks good. And pardon me for asking this here, but how long is the half-off sale going to be going on?

No problem! The "Dang It, I Couldn't Make It To PaizoCon" sale runs until the 20th!


Hi Owen

Love this book....very good. Always been a fan of sorceror and the potential to have options that rely from internal sources rather than just spells. I remember Mongoose Quintessential Sorceror which tried this in 3.5 D20 (also remember reading this whilst in a prop plane travelling to Indiana for GenCon in what we shall call "unsettled weather"....when the plane suddenly dropped quite a bit of altitude! eek...my GF said worst plane journey of her life!)....i digress...

therefore when PF did bloodlines this was an excellent step forward and really enhanced them in the right way. I had been hoping a 3PP would do something extra for them....not surprised it was SGG and quite a pleasant one when i reviewed what your weekly release was! I think they really add some significantly flavourful additions. Good job. cannot wait to play a sorceror now.

I have a couple of questions if i may:

1) Do you plan further sorceror releases? I know u have a number of follow ups planned....could this be one? (any news on Godling follow up?)

2) I presume it was deliberate for the bedreven not to get extra spell points for high INT? obviously sorceror gets extra spells per day...could u convert what a sorceror get with high CHA to points?

3) If i can sneak in a summoner request...any news when we will see the summoners options one that is due? did it get pushed back after UM so as to see no overlap?

Thanks


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Twin Dragons wrote:
Post-purchase. Guess I glazed over that section in the product description.
Hey Twin Dragons, I'm really sorry this wasn't the material you were looking for (though I'm thrilled a couple of other patrons pointed you to our archetypes books). I always want my customers to feel like they got their money's worth. If you remain disappointed about Sorcerer's Options: Beyond Bloodlines and don't feel you'll get any use out of it, drop me a line at owen (at) supergeniusgames (cot) com, and I'll get you a refund or replacement PDF.

Don't worry about it. I'm sure I'll find use for it eventually, besides I pretty much have every PDF from your company that I don't already own on my wishlist.


Like Johncolossus, i'm interested too in Bedreven class.
It's really deliberated not considering INT score for extra slots or points ? As now it seems a little strange, cause every other spellcaster class and even psions gain benefits from getting an high primary stat score.
Please tell us if this will be fixed in errata, or if it's good as it is now. Thanks !

Scarab Sages

Johncolossus wrote:
Love this book....very good. Always been a fan of sorceror and the potential to have options that rely from internal sources rather than just spells.

Thanks for the feedback. Glad you like the book!

Johncolossus wrote:
I have a couple of questions if i may:

Absolutely you may!

Johncolossus wrote:
1) Do you plan further sorceror releases? I know u have a number of follow ups planned....could this be one? (any news on Godling follow up?)

Sales of Beyond Bloodlines have been.. brisk. A sequel is almost inevitable, but it'll be a bit. Not only do I have to think of more ideas, I need tog et them playtested!

Johncolossus wrote:
2) I presume it was deliberate for the bedreven not to get extra spell points for high INT? obviously sorceror gets extra spells per day...could u convert what a sorceror get with high CHA to points?

I'll be answering this one a lot, so obviously I should have included a sidebar. :)

The bedreven nearly got cut for balance issues. The ability to trade in all your low-level spells for a few high-level spells can lead to a serious alpha-strike, and allow a bedreven to nuke the first encounter each day, then insist a party needs to sit down and wait for her spells to return the next day.

It's a problem GMs who run any 3.x psionics characters may be familiar with, and it took a lot of playtesting to balance out. In the end, the fact it takes a full-round action for a bedreven to cast most spells seemed to do the trick. A bedreven may focus on higher-level spells, but unless she somehow manages to start ever sight with clear line-of-effect to all potential targets, she'll be slowed down by having to take move actions to line up her spells. That prevents her from simply throwing a high-level spell once a round every round.

But, the balance is tricky. In playtesting, it looked to me like a bedreven who pumps her Int to the exclusion of everything else gets a bigger benefit than other spellcasters who focus on one stat. So, to make sure bedreven didn't overshadow traditional spellcasters, I opted to not give them bonus spell points from a high ability score. They do get a benefit from a higher score (higher save DCs), so it's still an attractive choice, and obviously a bedreven wants a 19 Int eventually to cast 9th level spells.

If anyone decides they just have t give bedreven bonus spell points from a high Int, I recommend just adding the bedreven's Int bonus to her spell pool. If that's not good enough for you, try figuring out how many spell levels of bonus spells the bedreven would receive, and add that to her spell pool.

But be careful. Just a few extra spell points can make a big difference.

Johncolossus wrote:
3) If i can sneak in a summoner request...any news when we will see the summoners options one that is due? did it get pushed back after UM so as to see no overlap?

It's still in the pipeline, and I do plan to release it this year... but playtesting has been harsh. I keep getting told a playtest group has decided to have all-summoner parties, and that they can take on CRs 4-6 above their level with ease. Of course one of those groups has a group that's one healing oracle and four summoners, and it can take on CRs 3-5 above their group level with ease... so it's hard to know when I've hit balance.

Scarab Sages

shea83 wrote:

Like Johncolossus, i'm interested too in Bedreven class.

It's really deliberated not considering INT score for extra slots or points ? As now it seems a little strange, cause every other spellcaster class and even psions gain benefits from getting an high primary stat score.
Please tell us if this will be fixed in errata, or if it's good as it is now. Thanks !

Yeah, it's odd. But yes it was an intentional design choice. I chalk the oddness up to how odd it is for someone to study to be a spontaneous spellcaster. :)


shea83 wrote:
Like Johncolossus, i'm interested too in Bedreven class.

Me three, and thanks for the clarification!

So, what would it take to get bedreven-like options for bards and oracles?


What no previews or sneak peaks?

Anyway but seriously what does the instinctive understanding feat do?

and also are there any feats that help out on the low skill point issues of sorcerers?

Scarab Sages

Dragon78 wrote:

What no previews or sneak peaks?

Anyway but seriously what does the instinctive understanding feat do?

and also are there any feats that help out on the low skill point issues of sorcerers?

Instinctive understanding allows a sorcerer to use Cha bonus rather than Int bonus for a few traditionally Int-based skills. And it's as close as we get to address the question of sorcerers and skill points.

(Unless you want to count the bedreven archetype, which is an Int-based variant of the sorcerer, and thus will have a higher Int, resulting in higher skill point totals).

Scarab Sages

Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
So, what would it take to get bedreven-like options for bards and oracles?

I have such a thing written up (the ovate), but honestly since the bedreven comes very close to just replacing spellcasting styles, you can make a bedreven-style bard or oracle very easily once you have the bedreven rules.

Dark Archive

reviewed.

Scarab Sages

Dark_Mistress wrote:
reviewed.

You've been on a roll today! (And we appreciate it very much.)

Dark Archive

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Dark_Mistress wrote:
reviewed.
You've been on a roll today! (And we appreciate it very much.)

Today was my SGG day for reviews. :)

Scarab Sages

Dark_Mistress wrote:
Today was my SGG day for reviews. :)

I should send you brownies. Or souls. Or brownies with souls baked into them...

Liberty's Edge

After reading this thread, I was very tempted to buy this product. After Dark_Mistress' review, I joyfully succombed to the aforementioned temptation.

I am looking forward to making my Halfling Jinx Arcane Sorceress a Strega if my DM for Serpent Skull allows. With the Evil Eye hex and the Malicious Eye feat, she should become the avatar of Misfortune I was envisioning from the start.
The fluff of the Strega archetype is also strangely fitting as Irina comes from Irrisen.

I do have a few questions however, mostly due to the following text : "the hex otherwise functions normally" :

1) I guess that the hex DC and other variables are based on the Sorcerer (Strega) level rather than the Witch level mentioned in the description of the hexes.

2) Is the hex DC and other variables based on the Strega's CHA or her INT (as mentioned in the description of the hexes) ?

I really hope that the answer to 2) is CHA, as both I, the other players and my GM have grown fond of Irina's INT score of 7 including the fact that her familiar will soon become more intelligent than she is.

And a completely different question :

3) How do the Sanguine spells interact with the powers of the Arcane bloodline ?

My guess :

Arcane Bond (lvl 1 Power) = your Arcane Bond functions as if you were a wizard of the augmented level, thus granting your familiar a better INT, Natural Armor and additional special abilities for the duration of the spell

New Arcana (lvl 9 Power) = you get additional spells known that you can cast for the duration of the spell but you have to be able to cast said spells based on your real Sorcerer level (not the augmented one). I guess that you can change the additional spells every time you cast a new sanguine spell.

School Power (lvl 15 Power) = I guess that you can change the School every time you cast a new sanguine spell.

I am worried though of how my interpretations interact with the sanguine cantrip, especially for the School Power. It is likely better to decide that the school is chosen once and for all the first time you get the power, either through your normal progression or through a sanguine spell.

I am eagerly awaiting your answers.


Nice review, D_M!

Liberty's Edge

Additional question : does the Hexes class feature of the Strega allows her access to Major hexes and Grand hexes when she is of high enough level (10 and 18 respectively), or is she stuck with the less powerful hexes only ?

Scarab Sages

The black raven wrote:
After reading this thread, I was very tempted to buy this product. After Dark_Mistress' review, I joyfully succombed to the aforementioned temptation.

Welcome to the fold!

The black raven wrote:
The fluff of the Strega archetype is also strangely fitting as Irina comes from Irrisen.

Yeah, I had Irrisen in mind when I wrote it. :)

The black raven wrote:

I do have a few questions however, mostly due to the following text : "the hex otherwise functions normally" :

1) I guess that the hex DC and other variables are based on the Sorcerer (Strega) level rather than the Witch level mentioned in the description of the hexes.

Yes, the strega treats her strega level as her witch level for all effects regarding her hexes.

The black raven wrote:
2) Is the hex DC and other variables based on the Strega's CHA or her INT (as mentioned in the description of the hexes) ?

As written? Int. However if a GM wanted to change that it wouldn't be unbalancing. (It would be more powerful... a hesitant GM might charge a feat for the swap -- the Strega doesn't give up much for what she gets as it is.)

The black raven wrote:

3) How do the Sanguine spells interact with the powers of the Arcane bloodline ?

My guess:

I am worried though of how my interpretations interact with the sanguine cantrip, especially for the School Power. It is likely better to decide that the school is chosen once and for all the first time you get the power, either through your normal progression or through a sanguine spell.

With the note that you are right you need to select a school and stick with it, I think your interpretations are correct.

The black raven wrote:
Additional question : does the Hexes class feature of the Strega allows her access to Major hexes and Grand hexes when she is of high enough level (10 and 18 respectively), or is she stuck with the less powerful hexes only ?

Only regular hexes... she doesn't give up enough to get major and grand hexes.

Liberty's Edge

Thank you very much for your answers. Now, I just need to convince my DM to allow me to base the hexes on CHA and hope he does not charge too much for it.


This surprises me, that no one has noticed this...but one of the endowments is incomplete. Which is sad because I love the rest of the PDF and was looking forward to how you'd make the half-finished endowment work...

Quote:
Natural Sorcery (Su): If your bloodline grants a power at 1st level that deals one or more dice of damage, you can sacrifice a spell slot to increase the damage you deal with one use of that power.

Is Natural Sorcery something that got missed as far as removal or did it just not get fleshed out?

Liberty's Edge

I had a blast playing my 4th-level Jinx Strega.

While I laid awake the night before we played, my powergaming mind was simply overwhelmed by a powerful story and concept for this character and I just accepted the hexes based on INT and got my GM to agree that Irina can later take a feat to make her hexes based on her CHA.

(I will call it Charismatic Witch, I think)

This deliberate choice makes for a fantastic backstory which was the really weak part of this otherwise thoroughly enjoyable character.

And since I chose Evil Eye and Cackle for my hexes, I was not too weakened by her INT of 7 which really makes playing her so very funny.

At 8th level, I will take Misfortune (based on CHA from 9th-level on) for added mischieviousness.

The main drawback of this new build is the delay in the strengthening of my jinx effects (with the Sluggish Jinx and Area Jinx feats), due to my having taken the Malicious Eye feat (the very best thing for this build) and taking the home-feat mentioned above at 9th level. However, the flexibility afforded by the hexes and their synergy with my save-or-suck spells (Grease, Glitterdust) is well worth it.

My GM nerfed a little my understanding of the Sanguine Enhancement spell by deciding that it would add 1 fixed spell (the same at each casting) that I would only have the opportunity to change for a more powerful one when I would be of a high enough level to cast the latter. Still, I will put it on my list at the earliest opportunity.

Thanks a lot for the good job on this product and I hope that other Sorcerers' players will have as much fun with it as I do.

Scarab Sages

Machaeus wrote:
Quote:
Natural Sorcery (Su): If your bloodline grants a power at 1st level that deals one or more dice of damage, you can sacrifice a spell slot to increase the damage you deal with one use of that power.
Is Natural Sorcery something that got missed as far as removal or did it just not get fleshed out?

You deal +1 die of damage per level of spell slot sacrificed. Sorry about the missing line!

Scarab Sages

The black raven wrote:
Thanks a lot for the good job on this product and I hope that other Sorcerers' players will have as much fun with it as I do.

That all sounds awesome"! And, of course, it the the job of the GM to make rules calls like that. :) You are most welcome, and I hope you continue to enjoy the product.

Scarab Sages

Many thanks to Megan Robertson for her new review!


Very glad I saw this on the side bar. So very added to the list of things to buy.

Scarab Sages

Aleron wrote:
Very glad I saw this on the side bar. So very added to the list of things to buy.

Glad to hear it!

If I may pick your brain for a moment as a publisher, is there someplace we could have advertised this you would be more likely to see? Obviously getting word out is always a major concern for any product, so I'm wondering if there's someplace specific you look for such news or are likely to notice an add.

(Anyone should feel free to jump in if they have an answer, for that matter!)

Thanks!


Hm that is a tough question. I generally do watch the various sidebars and section here on the forum. That said, stuff tends to cycle through quickly and I do know I've missed a lot. Occasionally when I find a publisher with interesting content I'll check out their section here for other things that might catch my attention.

I've also come to rely on Endzeitgeist and D_M for their reviews. They have a good feel for this stuff and I value their opinions. Potentially if you want to get some word out you could slip a copy to those two if they haven't reviewed it. I imagine I'm not the only one that gets swayed by their words and finds those reviews very valuable.

Speaking personally, I wouldn't mind signing up for emails from publishers I like for a heads up when they release new content.

This in particular is sorcerer content which I'm a sucker for so it stuck out obviously when it came up to me. Anyway, hope that helps and keep up the great work!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hmm. This is definitely under strong consideration for purchase. Some of these options and ideas sound right up the alley of my sorcerer player in my Monday "Carrion Crown" game.

Thanks Owen.

~Dean

Scarab Sages

Aleron wrote:
Speaking personally, I wouldn't mind signing up for emails from publishers I like for a heads up when they release new content.

Interesting idea, thanks!

The_Minstrel_Wyrm wrote:

Hmm. This is definitely under strong consideration for purchase. Some of these options and ideas sound right up the alley of my sorcerer player in my Monday "Carrion Crown" game.

Thanks Owen.

You are, of course, most welcome. I hope the material works well for your campaign!


Reviewed here and sent to GMS magazine. Cheers!

Scarab Sages

Endzeitgeist wrote:
Reviewed here and sent to GMS magazine. Cheers!

Many thanks for the review!

I'm intrigued about the idea of wanting more books like Beyond Bloodlines for other classes. I specifically felt Sorcerers needed some non-bloodline rules options, which lead to this book, and I'm not sure how many classes have similarly blank sections I would find compelling rules for. Some obviously do -- cleric options that looks at things other than channeling and domains is already in the works. And some classes I think already effectively have this treatment in the form of wizard discoveries and magus arcana.

So the question becomes, are you just interested in seeing crunch-based options for different classes, or specifically more efforts at crunch that's off the beaten track? I guess I could do Barbarian Options: Beyond Rage and Druid Options: Beyond Wild Shape (hopefully with better names), but it that what you were talking about?


For example books like: Witches options: Beyond Hexes; Oracle's Options: Beyond Curses (there are not THAT many revelations), Inquisitor's Options: Beyond judgments (perhaps with a focus on tactical feats?) etc. Seeing how awesome this one is, I have the utmost confidence you and your team could do it!

Dark Archive

I agree with End, lets see whats Beyond...

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