Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Undead Revisited (PFRPG)

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Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Undead Revisited (PFRPG)
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For most people, death is a release, a passage into the just rewards of the afterlife. Yet not everyone who dies rests easy. Legends and campfire tales tell of those individuals too evil to die, or too twisted by pride or occult knowledge to cross over to the other side. These lost souls become the undead, plaguing the dark crypts or silent streets of cities and farm towns alike, feasting on the innocent or spreading their immortal contagion like a plague.

Undead Revisited explores 10 different undead monsters—or entire breeds of monsters—from both real-world history and the time-honored traditions of fantasy roleplaying. Each monster entry explores the undead creature’s formation and ecology, its interactions with its victims and other undead, tips and tricks regarding its role in a campaign, variant versions for added gaming utility, and more. In addition, each entry comes with a unique sample monster, complete with full statistics for the Pathfinder RPG and ready to be dropped into any game.

    Inside this 64-page book, you’ll find:
  • Liches, the twisted spellcasters who lock away their souls so death may never claim them
  • Devourers, who form from the spirits of powerful spellcasters and fiends that venture into the darkness beyond the planes and come back forever tainted
  • Raveners, the undead dragons wrapped in the soul energy of those they destroy
  • Spectral dead, those formless spirits such as the wailing and betrayed banshees, the insane allips, the furious spectres, and the supremely evil wraiths
  • Shadows, those souls too covetous and miserly to relinquish their grasp on life
  • Bodaks, the eyeless horrors twisted by sights no one was meant to see
  • Graveknights, whose lust for battle knows no end—not even in death
  • Nightshades, the planar juggernauts who seek to snuff all life from the cosmos
  • Mohrgs, the undead murders who rise after death to stalk the streets
  • Wights, with their insatiable hunger for the souls of the living

Undead Revisited is intended for use with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game and Pathfinder campaign setting, but can easily be used in any fantasy game setting.

by Eric Cagle, Brian Cortijo, Brandon Hodge, Steve Kenson, Hal Maclean, Colin McComb, Jason Nelson, Todd Stewart, and Russ Taylor

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-303-3

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Serviceable, but Forgettable

3/5

"The dead will rise!" warns the back of Undead Revisited, a 64-page book in the Pathfinder Campaign Setting line. You know what you're getting yourself into from the title alone: entries on several undead monsters (ten of them, in fact). Each of the entries is six pages long, and consists of an overview/introduction to the monster and then sections on Ecology (where they live), Habitat & Society (what they're like), Campaign Role (the best ways to use them in a game), Treasure (what stuff they have, which for most undead isn't much), Variants (different, often more powerful, versions of the base creature), On Golarion (where they can be found in the official Pathfinder campaign setting), and a sample monster. The inside front cover of the book gives a picture and brief description of the ten monsters covered, while the inside back cover is a reproduction of the cover art sans text. The book starts with a two-page introduction, the only valuable part of which is a "Creating Undead" table which summarizes and expands on the methods required to create various monsters using the create undead or create greater undead spells. Before moving on to each entry, a one-line summary of my general thoughts on the book: competent, but bland and inessential. Now, on to the monsters:

1. Bodaks: Physical manifestations of the cosmic horror faced by mortals on the Outer Planes. Contains rules for making bodaks larger or smaller than Medium-sized, and for bodaks with multiple heads. The sample monster is the Taker of Eyes, a bodak antipaladin with a cool backstory (a former knight of Lastwall transformed by the evils he witnessed).

2. Devourers: Interesting undead that draw power from the souls they trap and consume in their skeletal frames. Variants include former devils, former daemons, and former demons, each of which gets a new suite of spell-like abilities very different than the norm. The sample devourer is Barasthaga, a CR 20 devourer oracle! Not something you'd like to meet in a dark alley, and powerful enough to become a major villain for a high-level campaign.

3. Graveknights: Undead who take over the physical forms of any mortal who dons their cursed armor. These are an interesting combination of monster and trap, and a good surprise for PCs who think they've seen everything. The section on variants describes the procedure for someone who wants to become a Graveknight. The sample monster is Lictor Shokneir, a CR 16 former Hellknight who artwork looks about as cliched "evil knight" as it gets.

4. Liches: Arch-wizards who have gained eternal life through undeath. Like with most of the entries, I just didn't think there was anything here that counted as liches "revisited"--everything fit the classic fantasy understanding of the lich. The variants section doesn't provide a template, but instead talks a little bit about demiliches. The sample lich is a cleric of Orcus.

5. Mohrgs: Weird undead consisting of purple entrail-like blobs in the chest cavity of cadavers. With their ability to create zombies, the book notes they could be a good "boss" for mid-level adventures as the PCs have to try to figure out why waves of undead keep emerging. Four variant mohrgs are provided: desert mohrgs, fleshwalker mohrgs (capable of appearing alive), frost mohrgs, and "mohrg-mothers" (a frankly ghastly concept arisen when a pregnant woman is executed). The sample is a Demonic Mohrg.

6. Nightshades: A collection of related, incredibly powerful undead with the ability to summon and control others. No real variants are provided, but I love the artwork for the sample nightshade, the "Nightskitter." It really is the stuff of nightmares, and the picture alone should scare your players.

7. Raveners: Self-made, skeletal dragons. From what I can tell of their campaign role, being undead doesn't seem to make them act all of that different than living dragons. Anyway, two variants: the Nightmare Ravener and the Thassilonian Ravener. I quite liked these, though I have a fondness for Thassilon. The sample ravener (Vashikyan) has an ancient green dragon as a base, and is CR 19. Kind of bland, frankly.

8. Shadows: The souls of the greedy turned into incorporeal manifestations of darkness and death. The book aptly notes that they make good guardians of ancient tombs and treasure vaults, as they have no particular desire to leave. The variants are "Distorted Shadows" (shadows with reach, which is actually a frightening prospect!), "Hidden Ones" (even stealthier than normal), "Plague Shadows" (which spread a supernatural disease), "Shadetouch Shadows" (partial corporeal), and "Vanishing Shadows" (gains the effect of blink). I quite liked the variants, as they're very easy to use, fit the flavour of shadows, and provide just enough of a variation to surprise the jaded adventurer. The sample shadow is a real beast: a CR 21 shadow ancient red dragon! This would be a classic "end of campaign" boss at the bottom of a megadungeon. It's got five attacks a round, each of which does 1d8 Strength drain and a breath weapon that does 20d10 fire damage. Nasty.

9. Spectral Dead: This is more of a "catch-all" entry for a variety of spectral undead, like banshees, spectres, allips, and wraiths. The variants are a "Corpulent Spectre", a "Scribbling Allip", and a "White Wraith." The sample is "Carak, Blade of Zyphus" a unique allip. I'm not sure if combining all of these various types of undead into a single entry did any of them justice.

10. Wights: Animated corpses that can drain the life of mortals. Before reading this book, I never really got a sense of wights as anything other than undead that drain levels. That hasn't changed, unfortunately. Scary for low-level adventurers, surely. The variants are a "Dust Wight" and a "Mist Wright", and they're reasonably interesting. The sample is a CR 9 "Wight Lord" which would make a good undead lieutenant for a mid-level story arc.

Some of the undead in this book are monsters that long-time gamers will be familiar with (liches, shadows, wights, and ghosts), and I'm sorry to say I didn't come away with any particularly new or exciting insights into them Some of the other undead were new to me, but were only marginally interesting. There weren't any of the moments I look for in books like this. No "I can't wait to use this!" excitement. I notice that nine authors are credited for the ten different monsters in this book, and I wonder if the freelancers were assigned monsters without being asked if they had anything fresh and flavourful to bring to the table. The entries are serviceable, but forgettable, and those words sum up best how I feel about the book.


Undead with feeling...

5/5

Loved this book. I have a tendency toward the macabre in my self designed campaigns and this book is well worn by now. I love it and has bought a dark light to my home campaign that brings realism to my players in spades. Great work.




Put the Chill back in the Grave

5/5

If your characters are fearless vampire slayers, use these undead and their variations to put the fear back in them. Check out my full review Undead Revisited


Great book, but a few problems

4/5

While i really loved this book, and i think it stands up to the other Revisited books admirably, i did feel that some entries felt a bit forced or rushed. Namely the spectral dead section, which i think that the entries there could have had their own sections in their own right to flesh them out more. The section on the wight as well felt a bit lacking in new insights that i have come to expect from the revisited line, as did the shadow section.


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Pathfinder Card Game, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
Asgetrion wrote:
Wow, that's a gorgeous cover! :)

+1


Nice cover, now that is an awesome undead(ghost?) dragon.

Contributor

Awesome cover :D

Dark Archive

Dragon78 wrote:
Nice cover, now that is an awesome undead(ghost?) dragon.

Actually, that is a ravener, which is Paizo's version of the 3E dragolich template (it's in Bestiary 2).


I gues it was wishful thinking that it was another type of undead dragon.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Dragon78 wrote:
I gues it was wishful thinking that it was another type of undead dragon.

Each type of undead in this book has a sample stat block. The ravener has one... but there's another sample undead in the book that was a dragon to begin with as well...


Awesome, two undead dragons for the price of one(book).


Out of curiosity, will this book explain the difference between the spectre and the wraith, and what leads to someone rising as one or the other sort of undead?


Talomyr wrote:
Eric Hinkle wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:

Book sounds awesome! More undead is always a good thing in my mind.

But...Carrion Crown? This I had not heard.

Carrion Crown is the Adventure Path that starts in February, after Serpent's Skull ends. It's set in Ustalav. Where the horror lives.

Good news! Hammer Horror, here comes Paizo!

But what is the 'graveknight', and does it even have a writeup as yet?

It's Paizo's version of the Death Knight. The write up is in the Bestiary section of one of the Council of Thieves books...I think it's part 3.

Ah cool. I've always liked Death Knights, and was sad to see them missing.

Anyone have a list (or know?) all the monsters that are TSR/WotC Original copyrighted creations (or at least copyrighted... Mind Flayers look too much like something out of Lovecraft for me to 100% like that they belong exclusively to /WotC)

Sovereign Court

Yup, they are product identity allright. Just like beholders and grell and slaadi and almost every monster since MM2...

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The irony is that WotC Deathknight and Paizo Graveknight were designed by the very same person, Darrin Drader.

As for "what is copyrighted" by WotC, the formula is:

Anything published by WotC that is NOT:

- in d20 srd
- in Tome of Horrors I by Necromancer Games
- isn't a mythical/historical/cryptozoological creature

IS closed content. Few corner cases and exceptions, of course.


Gorbacz wrote:

The irony is that WotC Deathknight and Paizo Graveknight were designed by the very same person, Darrin Drader.

As for "what is copyrighted" by WotC, the formula is:

Anything published by WotC that is NOT:

- in d20 srd
- in Tome of Horrors I by Necromancer Games
- isn't a mythical/historical/cryptozoological creature

IS closed content. Few corner cases and exceptions, of course.

ha that's cool (the death knight/grave knight being same creator).

Though, around 2070 or so (not sure the exact year Mind Flayers were created, but 95 years after that) WotC will lose Mind Flayers... unless Disney wins their lawsuit (and maybe even then, not sure if mind flayers are the same as Mickey Mouse, they aren't the very icon and most recognized identity of WotC)

I just always see Mind Flayers and think Lovecraft created them.

Dark Archive

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:

The irony is that WotC Deathknight and Paizo Graveknight were designed by the very same person, Darrin Drader.

As for "what is copyrighted" by WotC, the formula is:

Anything published by WotC that is NOT:

- in d20 srd
- in Tome of Horrors I by Necromancer Games
- isn't a mythical/historical/cryptozoological creature

IS closed content. Few corner cases and exceptions, of course.

ha that's cool (the death knight/grave knight being same creator).

Though, around 2070 or so (not sure the exact year Mind Flayers were created, but 95 years after that) WotC will lose Mind Flayers... unless Disney wins their lawsuit (and maybe even then, not sure if mind flayers are the same as Mickey Mouse, they aren't the very icon and most recognized identity of WotC)

I just always see Mind Flayers and think Lovecraft created them.

Believe me, graveknight is the best version of death knight to date! I think mr. Drader (insane though he may be! ;)) really gets how templates should be designed and how the abilities can be made to scale with HD. I'll go even so far as to say it's the best published template I've seen (in 3E or PF), and the mechanics really capture the feel of this classic monster!

Liberty's Edge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber
Gorbacz wrote:

The irony is that WotC Deathknight and Paizo Graveknight were designed by the very same person, Darrin Drader.

As for "what is copyrighted" by WotC, the formula is:

Anything published by WotC that is NOT:

- in d20 srd
- in Tome of Horrors I by Necromancer Games
- isn't a mythical/historical/cryptozoological creature

IS closed content. Few corner cases and exceptions, of course.

I think the original Death Knight was designed by Charles Stross.

From Wikipedia:

Charles Stross created the Death Knight for the 1981 AD&D supplement Fiend Folio. In a review in White Dwarf magazine, Jamie Thompson referred to the Death Knight as one of the more interesting additions in the book, "a kind of evil paladin".

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Mr Baron wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:

The irony is that WotC Deathknight and Paizo Graveknight were designed by the very same person, Darrin Drader.

As for "what is copyrighted" by WotC, the formula is:

Anything published by WotC that is NOT:

- in d20 srd
- in Tome of Horrors I by Necromancer Games
- isn't a mythical/historical/cryptozoological creature

IS closed content. Few corner cases and exceptions, of course.

I think the original Death Knight was designed by Charles Stross.

From Wikipedia:

Charles Stross created the Death Knight for the 1981 AD&D supplement Fiend Folio. In a review in White Dwarf magazine, Jamie Thompson referred to the Death Knight as one of the more interesting additions in the book, "a kind of evil paladin".

Notice I wrote "WotC Deathknight" instead of "TSR Deathknight" or "D&D Deathknight".

I'm a lawyer. Double-check anything I write.

Liberty's Edge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber

:)

Its the original that I always remember!


Gorbacz wrote:
Mr Baron wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:

The irony is that WotC Deathknight and Paizo Graveknight were designed by the very same person, Darrin Drader.

As for "what is copyrighted" by WotC, the formula is:

Anything published by WotC that is NOT:

- in d20 srd
- in Tome of Horrors I by Necromancer Games
- isn't a mythical/historical/cryptozoological creature

IS closed content. Few corner cases and exceptions, of course.

I think the original Death Knight was designed by Charles Stross.

From Wikipedia:

Charles Stross created the Death Knight for the 1981 AD&D supplement Fiend Folio. In a review in White Dwarf magazine, Jamie Thompson referred to the Death Knight as one of the more interesting additions in the book, "a kind of evil paladin".

Notice I wrote "WotC Deathknight" instead of "TSR Deathknight" or "D&D Deathknight".

I'm a lawyer. Double-check anything I write.

Yeah cause the original was just a monster with set stats, whereas WotC's 3.x version was a template so you could make your own paladin or other class turned death knight.


I'm getting this with Wake of the Watcher this month. I can't wait to mentally devour its contents. And I have a request if it can be done: If there are enough of them in the OGL can we get an Aberrations Revisited book?

Let's see we have:

Aboleth (I don't recall if they were covered in any other book)

Choker

Chuul

Cloaker

Ettercap

Froghemoth

Gibbering Mouther

Intellect Devourer

Nagas

Neothelid

Otyugh

Roper

And that's just me flipping through the first Bestiary and picking aberrations that I don't recalling appearing in any other Revisited product.

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6

Oh how I wish I could call dibs on writing 6 pages about intellect devourers :)


FenrysStar wrote:

If there are enough of them in the OGL can we get an Aberrations Revisited book?

Let's see we have:

Aboleth (I don't recall if they were covered in any other book)
Choker
Chuul
Cloaker
Ettercap
Froghemoth
Gibbering Mouther
Intellect Devourer
Nagas
Neothelid
Otyugh
Roper

And that's just me flipping through the first Bestiary and picking aberrations that I don't recalling appearing in any other Revisited product.

Cloaker, Otyugh, and Roper are in Dungeon Denizens Revisited.

I'd like to see some stuff written about the neothelid that hints at their even stranger progenitors. You know they're basically mind flayer tadpoles that were never placed in hosts in WotC source materials, so they're unlikely to get a reproductive write-up that contradicts that in Pathfinder materials, I'd think, much like how Paizo has said they won't stat-up Demogorgon. But then again, maybe neothelids aren't as iconic as Demogorgon and someone would write a reproductive ecology for them that has no direct ties to mind flayers.

Neothelid artwork in the Pathfinder Bestiary blows the previous WotC neothelid illustration away, so maybe it'd be nice to see neothelids step out of the shadow of their closed-content forebears and thrive on their own.

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC

Russ Taylor wrote:
Oh how I wish I could call dibs on writing 6 pages about intellect devourers :)

Wait, what?

Oh crud, I thought this was a real thing - and it'd have been perfect timing for my campaign too. Soon, soon, I'll be using the Kingmaker mass combat rules (with the message board additions) to simulate an underdark uprising.

(rubs hands together gleefully)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Wolf Munroe wrote:


I'd like to see some stuff written about the neothelid that hints at their even stranger progenitors. You know they're basically mind flayer tadpoles that were never placed in hosts in WotC source materials, so they're unlikely to get a reproductive write-up that contradicts that in Pathfinder materials, I'd think, much like how Paizo has said they won't stat-up Demogorgon. But then again, maybe neothelids aren't as iconic as Demogorgon and someone would write a reproductive ecology for them that has no direct ties to mind flayers.

Pathfinder neothelids have no relationship whatsoever to mind flayers. You are right to guess that if we ever do learn about their reproduction, we're not going to find out that they are mutant tadpoles of some "squid-faced psionic humanoids."

For one example of how they're unique, PF neothelids produce vast swarms of seugathi servants (check Bestiary II). Also, it's strongly hinted in Into the Darklands that neothelids are related to Lovecraftian abominations who left them behind after vacating Golarion.

One quirk that may never be explained in PF, however, is how the neothelid got its prefix. "Neo" means new, after all, so that makes them the "new thelids." What are the "old thelids"? Oh wait...

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Generic Villain wrote:

Pathfinder neothelids have no relationship whatsoever to mind flayers. You are right to guess that if we ever do learn about their reproduction, we're not going to find out that they are mutant tadpoles of some "squid-faced psionic humanoids."

For one example of how they're unique, PF neothelids produce vast swarms of seugathi servants (check Bestiary II). Also, it's strongly hinted in Into the Darklands that neothelids are related to Lovecraftian abominations who left them behind after vacating Golarion.

One quirk that may never be explained in PF, however, is how the neothelid got its prefix. "Neo" means new, after all, so that makes them the "new thelids." What are the "old thelids"? Oh wait...

Neothelids and Intellect Devourers both made appearances in into the darklands.

As to Neothelids. Maybe they're called that because they know Kung Fu? ;-)


So everyone of these creatures are stated in this book possibly with class levels(except the ravener) like in the classic horrors revisted book right?


James Jacobs wrote:
Dark_Mistress wrote:
I think you should release this in Oct instead... but only October 2010. SO best get to writing. :)
An October release of this book would not provide support for the Carrion Crown adventure path, alas.

If this is a (unofficial) support product for Carrion Crown, would it not have made more sense to release it before the first AP book instead of the same day as the fourth one?

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Nukruh wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Dark_Mistress wrote:
I think you should release this in Oct instead... but only October 2010. SO best get to writing. :)
An October release of this book would not provide support for the Carrion Crown adventure path, alas.
If this is a (unofficial) support product for Carrion Crown, would it not have made more sense to release it before the first AP book instead of the same day as the fourth one?

It was originally due out in April...


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Nukruh wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Dark_Mistress wrote:
I think you should release this in Oct instead... but only October 2010. SO best get to writing. :)
An October release of this book would not provide support for the Carrion Crown adventure path, alas.
If this is a (unofficial) support product for Carrion Crown, would it not have made more sense to release it before the first AP book instead of the same day as the fourth one?

Since most of the creatures in the book have a CR above 10 it seems like the perfect time to release it.


Generic Villain wrote:
Wolf Munroe wrote:


I'd like to see some stuff written about the neothelid that hints at their even stranger progenitors. You know they're basically mind flayer tadpoles that were never placed in hosts in WotC source materials

Pathfinder neothelids have no relationship whatsoever to mind flayers. You are right to guess that if we ever do learn about their reproduction, we're not going to find out that they are mutant tadpoles of some "squid-faced psionic humanoids."

For one example of how they're unique, PF neothelids produce vast swarms of seugathi servants (check Bestiary II). Also, it's strongly hinted in Into the Darklands that neothelids are related to Lovecraftian abominations who left them behind after vacating Golarion.

. . .

See, to me, mind flayers ARE "Lovecraftian abominations who left them behind." They're not actually from Lovecraft, but they're a Lovecraft-styled rip-off.

I'm aware that Pathfinder neothelids have no official relationship whatsoever to mind flayers, mainly because mind flayers are closed content/product identity/non-OGL. However, the suggestion that they were "left by Lovecraftian abominations" is, to me, a nod to the fact that they're the spawn of mind flayers without calling out mind flayers by name.

I actually like PF neothelids quite a bit. The illustration looks awesome. I was not aware of the seugathi but I like them. Since they die when a certain condition is met, you can have the party come upon a dead one, or see one die, and have no idea what killed it.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens Subscriber
Generic Villain wrote:
What are the "old thelids"? Oh wait...

You really, really do not want to come across any paleothelids. Seriously.


Vic Wertz wrote:
It was originally due out in April...

*frowns but returns to normal swiftly* That makes more sense to be in line with each other. I prefer a solid product with a pushed release date over one that might be forced out the door anyway. I have always been a fan of ecology articles/books and find the presentation style of this line to be very solid.

Justin Franklin wrote:
Since most of the creatures in the book have a CR above 10 it seems like the perfect time to release it.

Not counting CR from lower or higher variations in the book, it is more of a progression of CRs from the 3-8 (first 3 AP books) and 11-22 (remaining AP books) ranges. The theme (just undead), compared to previous books, lends itself to carry over into some monsters not covered but which are similar in corporeality or lack thereof. At least I hope that is the way some of the entries are covered, such as spectral undead. Add in the entries from Classic Horrors Revisited and the two books cover most of what the AP uses or could be expected to be found roaming around Ustalav. As for the timing, it is fine where it ended up being released in relation to what entries each book has so far.

Allip 3
Shadow 3
Wight 3
Wraith 5
Spectre 7
Bodak 8
Mohrg 8
-----------
Devourer 11
Graveknight 11
Lich 12
Banshee 13
Nightshades 14-20
Ravener 22


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Nukruh wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
It was originally due out in April...

*frowns but returns to normal swiftly* That makes more sense to be in line with each other. I prefer a solid product with a pushed release date over one that might be forced out the door anyway. I have always been a fan of ecology articles/books and find the presentation style of this line to be very solid.

Justin Franklin wrote:
Since most of the creatures in the book have a CR above 10 it seems like the perfect time to release it.

Not counting CR from lower or higher variations in the book, it is more of a progression of CRs from the 3-8 (first 3 AP books) and 11-22 (remaining AP books) ranges. The theme (just undead), compared to previous books, lends itself to carry over into some monsters not covered but which are similar in corporeality or lack thereof. At least I hope that is the way some of the entries are covered, such as spectral undead. Add in the entries from Classic Horrors Revisited and the two books cover most of what the AP uses or could be expected to be found roaming around Ustalav. As for the timing, it is fine where it ended up being released in relation to what entries each book has so far.

Allip 3
Shadow 3
Wight 3
Wraith 5
Spectre 7
Bodak 8
Mohrg 8
-----------
Devourer 11
Graveknight 11
Lich 12
Banshee 13
Nightshades 14-20
Ravener 22

There is only one sample creature in the book with a CR under 10 (more than likely because the higher level stat blocks are harder to make then lower level ones.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

+1 to having high CR sample creatures in book like this one. That's what irked me about previous Classic series - sure, I know what are the stats for an Otyugh, don't need them reprinted again, a CR 10 blind albino Otyugh sorcerer would more than welcome instead.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Wolf Munroe wrote:


I'm aware that Pathfinder neothelids have no official relationship whatsoever to mind flayers, mainly because mind flayers are closed content/product identity/non-OGL. However, the suggestion that they were "left by Lovecraftian abominations" is, to me, a nod to the fact that they're the spawn of mind flayers without calling out mind flayers by name.

Sorry, but on this one you're wrong. Two quotes from Into the Darklands.

"In deep Orv, immense worms writhe and war. These are the neothelids, spawn of ancient gods left behind in the deepest parts of the world, one time enemies of both the aboleths and the Vault Keepers themselves." (page 48).

"Some of “Into the Darklands” is heavily inspired by Lovecraft, while other elements (like gugs and shoggoths and the gods of the neothelids) are directly from his writings." (page 35).

There is no suggestion at all regarding mind flayers. Also, while I certainly can't speak for Paizo, I do think I know them well enough to know that they respect other companies' IP. They won't even do dracoliches (despite the fact that they could) because those guys are so closely tied to Forgotten Realms. But I'm done with this topic.


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Most important footnote on page 3:

"* This creature is detailed in the Bonus Bestiary and the upcoming Pathfinder Bestiary 3."

Yay, more monsters.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Lanx wrote:

Most important footnote on page 3:

"* This creature is detailed in the Bonus Bestiary and the upcoming Pathfinder Bestiary 3."

Yay, more monsters.

Ninja stealth product announcement!


Justin Franklin wrote:
There is only one sample creature in the book with a CR under 10 (more than likely because the higher level stat blocks are harder to make then lower level ones.

My main thing with the previous posts was more related to the flavor text aspects of the book and using that info to add to the atmosphere of the AP when using any CR version. It is nice that the CR level is varied from other sources though. I would assume variant entries are based off the original CR of the monsters? For example, Lava Child and Tojanida from Misfit Monsters Redeemed had both lower/higher CR entries. It would seem to be odd with variants using something that is not the base CR version.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Nukruh wrote:
Justin Franklin wrote:
There is only one sample creature in the book with a CR under 10 (more than likely because the higher level stat blocks are harder to make then lower level ones.
My main thing with the previous posts was more related to the flavor text aspects of the book and using that info to add to the atmosphere of the AP when using any CR version. It is nice that the CR level is varied from other sources though. I would assume variant entries are based off the original CR of the monsters? For example, Lava Child and Tojanida from Misfit Monsters Redeemed had both lower/higher CR entries. It would seem to be odd with variants using something that is not the base CR version.

The stat blocks in Undead Revisited, aren't just a reprint of the monsters stats, they are all some advanced version of that creature. So for example the Bodak is a Male Bodak Antipaladin 8, and the Devourer is a Male devourer oracle 14. And I missed one below CR 10, the wight and the allip (one of the spectral dead) are both below that mark.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Nukruh wrote:
Justin Franklin wrote:
There is only one sample creature in the book with a CR under 10 (more than likely because the higher level stat blocks are harder to make then lower level ones.
My main thing with the previous posts was more related to the flavor text aspects of the book and using that info to add to the atmosphere of the AP when using any CR version. It is nice that the CR level is varied from other sources though. I would assume variant entries are based off the original CR of the monsters? For example, Lava Child and Tojanida from Misfit Monsters Redeemed had both lower/higher CR entries. It would seem to be odd with variants using something that is not the base CR version.

Note that the base variants for every monster in Undead Revisited were already printed in PF Bestiaries (ok, Graveknight was printed in CoT), so there is no need to present "base" stats as they are already out there, open content and all.

Lava Child and Toejameada made their Pathfinder debut in MMR, so printing their base stats was rather obvious.


Generic Villain wrote:
Sorry, but on this one you're wrong. Two quotes from Into the Darklands.

I stand corrected.

Generic Villain wrote:
There is no suggestion at all regarding mind flayers. Also, while I certainly can't speak for Paizo, I do think I know them well enough to know that they respect other companies' IP. They won't even do dracoliches (despite the fact that they could) because those guys are so closely tied to Forgotten Realms. But I'm done with this topic.

My interpretation was based on the neothelid entry in the Bestiary, which I read as vague enough to include mind flayers as a progenitor species. It doesn't call them out, but it was vague enough that they would fit the category.

Pathfinder Bestiary (page 214) wrote:
The neothelids themselves were spawned by even more horrific entities, ageless horrors from strange dimensions beyond the edge of known reality--the neothelids see themselves as the chosen agents of these malevolent forces, working to ready the world for their return.

I'd say that was vague enough to include mind flayers. However, as you've indicated, Darklands is more specific.

As for dracoliches, the lich template can now be applied to dragons. They won't work the exact same way as the dracolich template, but if Paizo made a dracolich template, it wouldn't work the exact same way either, just as graveknights are not identical to deathknights mechanically, but are the same functionally. In this case, applying the lich template to a dragon works just as well and doesn't introduce what essentially boils down to a redundant template.

I checked to see if the second dragon in Undead Revisited was a dragon lich, but it wasn't. However, I did look at all the sample creatures and I have to say I like that in some cases the sample creature is a whole new monster based on the creature type. Notably the Wight Lord (his spawn are Advanced Wights) and the Nightskitter (a spider Nightshade variant).


Justin Franklin wrote:
The stat blocks in Undead Revisited, aren't just a reprint of the monsters stats, they are all some advanced version of that creature. So for example the Bodak is a Male Bodak Antipaladin 8, and the Devourer is a Male devourer oracle 14. And I missed one below CR 10, the wight and the allip (one of the spectral dead) are both below that mark.

I understand the stat blocked entries are new higher level examples but this reply did not answer my last question which I will reword below this next quote.

Gorbacz wrote:

Note that the base variants for every monster in Undead Revisited were already printed in PF Bestiaries (ok, Graveknight was printed in CoT), so there is no need to present "base" stats as they are already out there, open content and all.

Lava Child and Toejameada made their Pathfinder debut in MMR, so printing their base stats was rather obvious.

This is sort of closer to the question asked but it still doesn't answer it the way I really am looking for it to be. I understand the book includes higher stat blocked entries for each monster. The question is about the Variants Section options though and how those options are presented. I only used those 2 monsters as examples since they both included higher and lower CR options in their respective Variants Sections. So I guess I will rephrase the question in hope of getting a proper answer.

In the Variants Section, options are based off of:
A. the original printed monster stat block found elsewhere (Bestiary).
B. the new higher CR stat block entries presented in this book.

I really can not think of an easier way to ask how the Variant Section is presented than I have in these 2 posts.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Nukruh wrote:


This is sort of closer to the question asked but it still doesn't answer it the way I really am looking for it to be. I understand the book includes higher stat blocked entries for each monster. The question is about the Variants Section options though and how those options are presented. I only used those 2 monsters as examples since they both included higher and lower CR options in their respective Variants Sections. So I guess I will rephrase the question in hope of getting a proper answer.

In the Variants Section, options are based off of:
A. the original printed monster stat block found elsewhere (Bestiary).
B. the new higher CR stat block entries presented in this book.

Yes, there are variants such as the mother mohrg, giant bodak, variant devourers (depending on what kind of fiend spawned them), plague shadows, etc.

Every undead entry also has a statted out variant or, in the case of templates (graveknight, lich, ravenar), an example. Thus, we get a CR 20 devourer with class levels, a brand new nightshade, a variant allip, a CR 9 wight, etc.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I really enjoyed the new angle taken for the devourer. It also leads to many interesting implications.

Apparently, there's someplace "beyond" the planes of the Great Beyond - a place that I suppose is the equivalent of the Dark Tapestry for the outer planes. Though there's almost no info on it, this realm has to be pretty nasty, as it spawned both the devourer species and the god of torture Zon-Kuthon.

Contributor

Generic Villain wrote:

I really enjoyed the new angle taken for the devourer. It also leads to many interesting implications.

Apparently, there's someplace "beyond" the planes of the Great Beyond - a place that I suppose is the equivalent of the Dark Tapestry for the outer planes. Though there's almost no info on it, this realm has to be pretty nasty, as it spawned both the devourer species and the god of torture Zon-Kuthon.

:D

I was deliberately coy about the "beyond" bit in the Devourer writeup, specifically if it was or was not linked in any way to anything previously mentioned like the Dark Tapestry on the Material plane. I had far too much fun with that section.

Well, the introductory speaker for the section knows the truth, but he's being just as coy as I was. Though in his case it's maliciously coy.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

I really like the advanced examples in the book. The CR 21 shadow is going to scare my players when they encounter it. Most of the critters are in the CR 12+ range, with 3 that are CR 19+.

The variants are presented as little templates and would be added to the base stats of a creature from one of the bestiaries.

I also want to second (or third) the call for an Aberrations Revisited. Or maybe make it Darklands Denizens Revisited. I've loved the series since the beginning, and they keep getting better and better.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Todd Stewart wrote:

I was deliberately coy about the "beyond" bit in the Devourer writeup, specifically if it was or was not linked in any way to anything previously mentioned like the Dark Tapestry on the Material plane. I had far too much fun with that section.

It certainly felt like the Dark Tapestry, and the strangeness of the devourers felt Lovecraft-inspired. It also felt sort of like Wizard of the Coast's Far Realm (itself an obvious Lovecraft homage). I would definitely like to learn more about this no-place... though I'm not exactly holding my breath.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Todd Stewart wrote:
Though in his case it's maliciously coy.

And you're what exactly... benevolently coy?

Seriously I'm enjoying the book, it drives three things home.

1) Undead are scary abberations, not sparkly cool goths.

2) Some things that are 'undead' are more 'things that should not be' (Devourers, Nightshades)

3) For the more 'normal' undead, it's that they were people once.

Contributor

Matthew Morris wrote:
Todd Stewart wrote:
Though in his case it's maliciously coy.
And you're what exactly... benevolently coy?

Absolutely. :D

Matthew Morris wrote:
2) Some things that are 'undead' are more 'things that should not be' (Devourers, Nightshades)

Yeah guess which sections I worked on ;)


which Icon got the most gruesome death in the art for this book??

cant get it for a week.. so..

Dark Archive

Steelfiredragon wrote:

which Icon got the most gruesome death in the art for this book??

cant get it for a week.. so..

Looks like each monster kills a different iconic.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Steelfiredragon wrote:

which Icon got the most gruesome death in the art for this book??

cant get it for a week.. so..

It's a toss-up between Valeros being munched on by a ravenar, and Alain being impaled by a nightshade. A special mention goes to Alahazra being choked to death by a spectre.

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