Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Rival Guide (PFRPG)

My number one 'want' for this sort of book is at least a brief exploration of their preferred tactics in an encounter, and how (or, *if*) they synergize together or use teamwork to set situations up to take advantage of. Particularly in the cases of the higher level groups, it would make sense that they would have some preferred strategies that involve their standards spells, feats, skills and class abilities, and not necessarily derived from custom stuff (like the Kneecappers, who I like, but are built around some non-core options).

My number one 'want' for this sort of book is at least a brief exploration of their preferred tactics in an encounter, and how (or, *if*) they synergize together or use teamwork to set situations up to take advantage of. Particularly in the cases of the higher level groups, it would make sense that they would have some preferred strategies that involve their standards spells, feats, skills and class abilities, and not necessarily derived from custom stuff (like the Kneecappers, who I like, but are built around some non-core options).

The Hands of Slaughter have their tactics and typical allies described. They do have some non-core options, plus stuff from the APG (which some argue is not core - up to you).

the word count for higher level entries should be be bigger than the lower level ones

Perhaps... but having each character complete on one page was very compelling too, from a layout perspective and an ease-of-use perspective.

Set wrote:

My number one 'want' for this sort of book is at least a brief exploration of their preferred tactics in an encounter, and how (or, *if*) they synergize together or use teamwork to set situations up to take advantage of. [snip]

The Hands of Slaughter have their tactics and typical allies described. They do have some non-core options, plus stuff from the APG (which some argue is not core - up to you).

I didn't mean to suggest that this didn't exist, just that, in the talk of what we want to see and what might be cut to make room for more backstory, this was the number one thing I wanted.

Out of pure curiousity, how is it that the .pdf for Ultimate Combat (256 Pages) is $10, while this one (64 pages) is $14?

I'd pay $10, but I doubt I'll pay $14 for a .pdf.

Cue people telling me to pony up the $4 for a great book and shut up about it - and I get that - but I am a stubborn consumer. I'm always ready to walk away from a product, even a great one, if the price isn't in the range I'm expecting...and that's the case here. If Mr. Jacobs or someone can explain to me why there's such a difference between this and the other .pdf products, I'll happily buy in - it's obviously getting rave reviews.

And sorry, don't mean to be a wet blanket or anything.

Out of pure curiousity, how is it that the .pdf for Ultimate Combat (256 Pages) is $10, while this one (64 pages) is $14?

<snip>

And sorry, don't mean to be a wet blanket or anything.

Stop being a wet blanket! :P

Seriously, Paizo's been selling most of their 'rulebook' PDFs at around $10. (CRB, APG, Bestiary, and UM, IIRC)

Out of pure curiousity, how is it that the .pdf for Ultimate Combat (256 Pages) is $10, while this one (64 pages) is $14?

I'd pay $10, but I doubt I'll pay $14 for a .pdf.

Cue people telling me to pony up the $4 for a great book and shut up about it - and I get that - but I am a stubborn consumer. I'm always ready to walk away from a product, even a great one, if the price isn't in the range I'm expecting...and that's the case here. If Mr. Jacobs or someone can explain to me why there's such a difference between this and the other .pdf products, I'll happily buy in - it's obviously getting rave reviews.

And sorry, don't mean to be a wet blanket or anything.

Because all of the PDFs in the Roleplaying game (Core, Bestiary 1 & 2, APG, UM, and UC) line are heavily discounted (to get you to buy the actual book and because they eventually end up in the PRD). There is no difference in the price between the Rival Guide and any of the other books in the Campaign Setting line (except the ISWG, which has the same assumptions tied to it as the RPG line).

Just got mine in the mail! (12 days to Korea)

Someone had actually opened my envelope and thrown the contents in the basket used for trash/commercial leaflets! Luckily the books (Rival Guide and Broken Moon) were undamaged, but I'll have to get future shipments to a mailbox which isn't accessible to anyone who passes by...

Apparently role playing books and comics are commonly mistaken for commercial junk by those who don't know what it is, or so I've heard.

Because all of the PDFs in the Roleplaying game (Core, Bestiary 1 & 2, APG, UM, and UC) line are heavily discounted (to get you to buy the actual book and because they eventually end up in the PRD). There is no difference in the price between the Rival Guide and any of the other books in the Campaign Setting line (except the ISWG, which has the same assumptions tied to it as the RPG line).

Well, I guess that makes sense, except that the ISWG isn't going to end up in the PRD.

I guess my point is that I find it...odd...that the Golem is getting a physical book printed, bound, shipped back from China, unloaded, repackaged, and shipped to the customer for a mere $6 cheaper than it costs to e-deliver.

They're welcome, of course, to price their products however they want to, and however is going to work for them (and god knows I hope they're rolling in money, they deserve it), but I guess I'm not seeing the level of "savings passed on" that I would expect when the customer chooses the publishing option that's most cost efficient for the company.

Oh well, I'll pony up and buy the darn thing anyway. But it still doesn't make a great deal of sense to me. The problem with making so many great products is that people like me whine when we don't have enough money to buy them all! LOL

Justin Franklin wrote:

Because all of the PDFs in the Roleplaying game (Core, Bestiary 1 & 2, APG, UM, and UC) line are heavily discounted (to get you to buy the actual book and because they eventually end up in the PRD). There is no difference in the price between the Rival Guide and any of the other books in the Campaign Setting line (except the ISWG, which has the same assumptions tied to it as the RPG line).

Well, I guess that makes sense, except that the ISWG isn't going to end up in the PRD.

I guess my point is that I find it...odd...that the Golem is getting a physical book printed, bound, shipped back from China, unloaded, repackaged, and shipped to the customer for a mere $6 cheaper than it costs to e-deliver.

They're welcome, of course, to price their products however they want to, and however is going to work for them (and god knows I hope they're rolling in money, they deserve it), but I guess I'm not seeing the level of "savings passed on" that I would expect when the customer chooses the publishing option that's most cost efficient for the company.

Oh well, I'll pony up and buy the darn thing anyway. But it still doesn't make a great deal of sense to me. The problem with making so many great products is that people like me whine when we don't have enough money to buy them all! LOL

The ISWG assumption is 1) that if you buy the PDF you will pick up the print book, and 2)it is the entry point to the Campaign Setting (i.e. you need it before you buy they rest of the stuff in the line. I should have been more clear.

Of course, Todd -you know when Mikaze says that, what he's really saying is "Good God, what happened to the Marrow Reavers? What did the Dust Coven do to them??? Is that a HEAD or a bloody cabbage? *choke*"

Just thought I'd clear that up. The rest of the rival groups are already doomed, and you'll never even see who did it.

Then they're coming after the other authors. =-)

"LOL! Are you #$^@#$ kidding me?!"

"You'll know my response to that little joke when you wake up to see me grinning, Najak licking her lips and drooling, and a bag of devouring about to be dropped over your head before we turn your corpse into something between a pinata and a slab of meat being tenderized. I mean $%^&! that's some attitude from a pissant little mortal."

*insert string of expletives in Abyssal that are by no means safe for any work, most of which involve activities banned on multiple planes*

The quasit has a mouth on him suffice to say.

I guess my point is that I find it...odd...that the Golem is getting a physical book printed, bound, shipped back from China, unloaded, repackaged, and shipped to the customer for a mere $6 cheaper than it costs to e-deliver.

It was sort of an experiment to price the PDF versions of our hardcovers at 10 bucks... but it was one that worked PHENOMENALLY well. Our hardcover books sell extraordinarily well—I suspect a lot of folks pick up the 10 dollar PDF and are impressed enough to go on and buy the physical book as well. Furthermore, the hardcover books are the skeleton of what we do—you can't play in Golarion as well without them, and for most of them, they're 100% open anyway so the majority of the content is free online, so making the PDF 10 bucks is our way of pricing it right.

The Inner Sea World Guide PDF we priced at 10 bucks because we wanted all the folks who've been buying our hardcovers to check out Golarion, and by making that PDF equally expensive, we get it out to more folks. And that seems to be working well, since the hardcover itself is selling very well as well. Hmm... that's a lot of wells.

I've enjoyed both the NPC Guide and Rivals Guide. I'm still hoping there will be a heros guide which not only feature new hero NPCs but will also give us a default levels and published backgrounds of the Iconics.

I will say this, the Inner Sea World Guide is by far in my opinion the best looking book Paizo has put out to date. I know quite a few people that love that Paizo's pdfs aren't priced the same as the printed books because they can buy the pdf before or after the printed book and not feel well... insert graphic word here.

It was sort of an experiment to price the PDF versions of our hardcovers at 10 bucks... but it was one that worked PHENOMENALLY well. Our hardcover books sell extraordinarily well—I suspect a lot of folks pick up the 10 dollar PDF and are impressed enough to go on and buy the physical book as well. Furthermore, the hardcover books are the skeleton of what we do—you can't play in Golarion as well without them, and for most of them, they're 100% open anyway so the majority of the content is free online, so making the PDF 10 bucks is our way of pricing it right.

I do kind of think that all your PDFs pricing should be capped at $10, but I do understand why you have them set they way they are. Not that it effects me, as a subscriber I get all the juicy PDFs. I just think that you'll get more impulse buys at $10 or less.

(Of course, it should be noted that you can subscribe now to get the PDF and hardcopy of the Rivals Guide at the same time!)

Dangittoheck -- I was hoping for a thinly-veiled Golarion equivalent of The Linear Guild and/or The Order of the Stick!! ;-D

Although the way that the elf wizard in the 20th level rival party keeps "accidentally" catching the dwarf fighter in the blast radii of his area-effect spells reminds me of V's constant unleashing of explosive runes on Belkar...

Cheers, JohnH / Wanda

My number one 'want' for this sort of book is at least a brief exploration of their preferred tactics in an encounter, and how (or, *if*) they synergize together or use teamwork to set situations up to take advantage of. Particularly in the cases of the higher level groups, it would make sense that they would have some preferred strategies that involve their standards spells, feats, skills and class abilities...

+1

Also, I'd love to see more background info, both as blog posts from what got cut and in the yet-announced Rival Guide 2.

Just out of curiosity, who are the two gentlemen on the cover having a gentle disagreement? The one on the left looks like a Hellknight and the one of the left a drow, but other than that I am stumped.

Perhaps... but having each character complete on one page was very compelling too, from a layout perspective and an ease-of-use perspective.

Firm agreement. If you're running one of these parties, you'll be doing enough flipping as it is. (Suggestion: photocopy the relevant pages so you have one sheet per NPC.)

Doug M.

Also, I'd love to see more background info, both as blog posts from what got cut and in the yet-announced Rival Guide 2.

I would love to see blog posts with more detail about these guys.

Rival Guide 2? Is this a thing that is going to happen?

Doug M.

Meanwhile, a tip for anyone else who's using this. There's some lovely artwork in this book -- I recently ran the Hands of Slaughter, and the players were definitely impressed by the illustrations.

However. While the illos are great, the only way to show them to the players is to clumsily hold out the book with one hand while trying to cover the rest of the page with the other hand. This is kinda dopey.

But! If you have the .pdf, you can copy the images, paste them into a Word document, and print them. Yeah!

Of course, not everyone has the .pdf. Maybe Paizo could post these images online somewhere?

Doug M.

I just realized how much I've used this supplement. Looking forward to Rival Guide 2!

Am I the only person who'd love to see a wallpaper of the Hellblood Corsairs flag?

Regarding the spell Staggering Fall, has there ever been a determination as to what the save for it is? The info block states Fort Partial but the description uses Will negates.

- Gauss

So it's been sometime now, is there any word yet on a Monster Codex 2 or a Rival Guide 2 coming down the pike?!?

Both would be highly welcomed, the Monster Codex provides a venue for some classic monsters as well as some real creative choices. While a new Rival Codex with a few low level teams could also have stats blocks for Dwarf, Elf, Halfling, and Gnome villages or groups like thugs, monks, tribes, and zealots.

So it's been sometime now, is there any word yet on a Monster Codex 2 or a Rival Guide 2 coming down the pike?!?

Both would be highly welcomed, the Monster Codex provides a venue for some classic monsters as well as some real creative choices. While a new Rival Codex with a few low level teams could also have stats blocks for Dwarf, Elf, Halfling, and Gnome villages or groups like thugs, monks, tribes, and zealots.

I'd say you're in luck, based on the announcements made at the Paizo Banquet. ^_^