weirmonken |
Flipped through this today, and probably won't do a full sit-down for some time, but I did want to say a couple words:
First, I was impressed by how the spirit of Call of Cthulhu scenarios are present in this module, from the classic hook of "an old friend has passed away" to the strong element of investigation present in this adventure. I hope we see more investigation-focused adventures from Paizo in the future.
Second, while it is not elaborated on in any any great detail, I was relieved to see a research mechanic introduced to Pathfinder that was not cumbersome and which worked elegantly with the Knowledge rules. I'll certainly be cherry-picking this detail for my own games, and am glad to see it present.
Third, the expansion on animated objects in the Bestiary is a fine idea, and providing GMs with a larger toolbox with which to tinker on existing monsters is a fine idea, and one that I support wholeheartedly.
Fourth, I'm intrigued by the Trust mechanic, but have yet to read it in detail. I do like the idea of an evolving relationship between a group of players and a community based on their actions, so I'll likely be considering how to make this work in my own games as well.
Overall, a very strong first impression. I'm currently committed to running a Serpent Skull game, which means I won't be running Carrion Crown any time soon, but I look forward to keeping up with it monthly via my subscription.
gbonehead Owner - House of Books and Games LLC |
And the mantra of ALL undead being evil does mean that we'll probably never do a good-aligned lich. Which is also partially because that is very much a Forgotten Realms thing, and I'd rather not mix worlds in that spot.
Now and then, non-evil and non-ghost undead will probably sneak into print, but if it's a non-evil undead and it's not a ghost, chances are VERY good I didn't notice it and bringing it to my attention will make me angry and send me off to punish someone here at Paizo who DID IT WRONG!!!! :-P
Heheheh. I'd say I'm sorry, but I'm not :)
Out of curiosity, why is it only ghosts that get the "can be non-evil" treatment? I ask because the instance in my spoiler makes perfect sense as a rationale for a non-evil undead creature.
Not that Pathfinder has such a thing yet (and apparently it never will), but in Savage Species there was an Emancipated Spawn prestige class for undead that could be applied to undead creatures that "awoke" from their status as a spawn and recalled their previous lives. I love that concept, but based on the "all undead are evil" mantra, this could never happen without the awakened creature being evil.
Could we maybe state that in Golarion all undead are evil without clouding the issue in a more global sense, thus allowing for creatures other than ghosts to be non-evil?
(as an aside, your anger over non-evil undead reminds me of my response to adamantine weapons, which in a game I once played in were treated as if they were lightsabers that could cut through anything. As a result my current campaign world has zero adamantine available. There's a rationale, of course, but basically it was because I was so angry about someone with an adamantine two-handed sword acting like Luke Skywalker. Of course, I have since learned that was not a correct interpretation of adamantine weapons ...)
... I was relieved to see a research mechanic introduced to Pathfinder that was not cumbersome and which worked elegantly with the Knowledge rules. I'll certainly be cherry-picking this detail for my own games, and am glad to see it present.
... the expansion on animated objects in the Bestiary is a fine idea, and providing GMs with a larger toolbox with which to tinker on existing monsters is a fine idea, and one that I support wholeheartedly.
... I'm intrigued by the Trust mechanic, but have yet to read it in detail. I do like the idea of an evolving relationship between a group of players and a community based on their actions, so I'll likely be considering how to make this work in my own games as well.
Whoa.
This sounds like a truly amazing publication; I think I'll have to bump it to the very top of my reading list - those are all things that will have immediate and great usefulness in my current campaign.
Awesome.
Zaister |
Now and then, non-evil and non-ghost undead will probably sneak into print, but if it's a non-evil undead and it's not a ghost, chances are VERY good I didn't notice it and bringing it to my attention will make me angry and send me off to punish someone here at Paizo who DID IT WRONG!!!! :-P
Spoiler for The Godsmouth Heresy:
I wouldn't want to be whoever designed
James Jacobs Creative Director |
Out of curiosity, why is it only ghosts that get the "can be non-evil" treatment? I ask because the instance in my spoiler makes perfect sense as a rationale for a non-evil undead creature.
Not that Pathfinder has such a thing yet (and apparently it never will), but in Savage Species there was an Emancipated Spawn prestige class for undead that could be applied to undead creatures that "awoke" from their status as a spawn and recalled their previous lives. I love that concept, but based on the "all undead are evil" mantra, this could never happen without the awakened creature being evil.
Could we maybe state that in Golarion all undead are evil without clouding the issue in a more global sense, thus allowing for creatures other than ghosts to be non-evil?
When I say "ALL UNDEAD ARE EVIL," what I really mean is that if you want to make a non-evil undead show up in an adventure for print with us, you have to be a damn good writer and you have to justify your choice with some really cool backstory. See what Rob did with...
Many writers aren't up to the challenge of presenting a non-evil undead, frankly.
Ghosts have always felt like a different case for me. They're the most tragic of undead, and while they can be unrelentingly evil... they can be just as scary when they're NOT evil. I can think of LOTS of movies and stories where the ghosts aren't necessarily evil but the movie is still really scary. (Some examples off the top of my head: "The Eye" (although not so much the remake), "The Others," "The Sixth Sense," and "The Devil's Backbone.") This isn't really the case for other types of undead. Vampires come close... but most movies about vampires that portray vampires not as evil fail at being good movies. The ones that DO work... they have great writers.
I'd rather not see us do an emancipated spawn type prestige class at all. If we decide to write an adventure with an element like that, I'd MUCH rather present the "emancipated spawn" (I kinda hate that term, actually) as a unique entity, not as a template that implies that you can throw this onto all sorts of things, willy-nilly.
gbonehead Owner - House of Books and Games LLC |
When I say "ALL UNDEAD ARE EVIL," what I really mean is that if you want to make a non-evil undead show up in an adventure for print with us, you have to be a damn good writer and you have to justify your choice with some really cool backstory. See what Rob did with... ** spoiler omitted **
Many writers aren't up to the challenge of presenting a non-evil undead, frankly.
See, this is what gives me absolute faith in Paizo. Even when you guys say something that sounds like an absolute, there's always a ".... when it makes sense" clause attached. I had the same issue with the discussions about epic level caps until I realized what was really being said.
I'd rather not see us do an emancipated spawn type prestige class at all. If we decide to write an adventure with an element like that, I'd MUCH rather present the "emancipated spawn" (I kinda hate that term, actually) as a unique entity, not as a template that implies that you can throw this onto all sorts of things, willy-nilly.
Personally, I don't think that having such a thing means it'll be used willy-nilly (I like the concept of the prestige class, yet I've used it once in 5 years), but I definitely see your point - in reality there's no need for it, because anyone can give (for example) a shadow 5 levels of sorcerer and say it's because the shadow recalled it's former self - no need for a prestige class for that.
And yes, yes indeed, the Emancipated Spawn name is terrible.
Asgetrion |
Sounds like Rob isn't getting to suffer James's wrath, then. Good!
Have you read the adventure? It's probably the best 1st-level adventure written so far for PF (including the AP modules). Without spoiling anything, Godsmouth Heresy features some very well-written encounters against undead...
Barbarossa |
I received this in the mail yesterday and it looks absolutely decadent. The layout is gorgeous, the art is excellent, I love the maps. The appearance of the whole thing is luscious. Kudos.
I did notice one odd thing. The cover seemed flimsy, very different than the other AP books. It seemed much more like a magazine than a book. Was this a conscious decision? I can't help but think that it will affect the durability of the module over time.
Lisa Stevens CEO |
I did notice one odd thing. The cover seemed flimsy, very different than the other AP books. It seemed much more like a magazine than a book. Was this a conscious decision? I can't help but think that it will affect the durability of the module over time.
We are using the exact same paper stock on our adventure paths that we have from the beginning. We have never changed the specs. Not one little bit. Why mess with something that is doing so well? My guess is that it just "seems" to be flimsy to you. It feels the same to me. :)
Of course, your sense of seeming may vary...
-Lisa
Barbarossa |
We are using the exact same paper stock on our adventure paths that we have from the beginning. We have never changed the specs. Not one little bit. Why mess with something that is doing so well? My guess is that it just "seems" to be flimsy to you. It feels the same to me. :)
Of course, your sense of seeming may vary...
-Lisa
Hm. I don't know whether to feel mildly disturbed that my perceptions are out of wack or mildly insulted by the insinuation that they are.
Dark_Mistress |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Quote:Hm. I don't know whether to feel mildly disturbed that my perceptions are out of wack or mildly insulted by the insinuation that they are.We are using the exact same paper stock on our adventure paths that we have from the beginning. We have never changed the specs. Not one little bit. Why mess with something that is doing so well? My guess is that it just "seems" to be flimsy to you. It feels the same to me. :)
Of course, your sense of seeming may vary...
-Lisa
Or it could be the gnomes that cut off your hands while you slept and replaced them. So everything now "feels" different to you. It happens a lot more than most people think.
Joseph Wilson |
Hm. I don't know whether to feel mildly disturbed that my perceptions are out of wack or mildly insulted by the insinuation that they are.
For what it's worth, I can verify that my copy of this issue is of the exact same quality and durability as all my other AP issues. If it seems that obvious to you, maybe it's possible that you just got a random, weird printing error? I dunno...
Barbarossa |
Or it could be the gnomes that cut off your hands while you slept and replaced them. So everything now "feels" different to you. It happens a lot more than most people think.
Well, it wouldn't be the first time. Although with St. Paddy's day coming up, I tend to blame the leprechauns.
I did compare HH to an SS module. The cover did seem the same, but the book felt floppy, as if it were heavier maybe.
Dark Sasha |
Or it could be the gnomes that cut off your hands while you slept and replaced them. So everything now "feels" different to you. It happens a lot more than most people think.
Dark Mistress may just have invented a new creepy villain here, the insidious replacer of arms with a gnomish prosthesis. Now what should we call it?
Jeff de luna |
Dark_Mistress wrote:Dark Mistress may just have invented a new creepy villain here, the insidious replacer of arms with a gnomish prosthesis. Now what should we call it?
Or it could be the gnomes that cut off your hands while you slept and replaced them. So everything now "feels" different to you. It happens a lot more than most people think.
Gnomes? I think you mean Derro. "We are not Gnomes. We are Derro."
Jam412 |
Dark Sasha wrote:Gnomes? I think you mean Derro. "We are not Gnomes. We are Derro."Dark_Mistress wrote:Dark Mistress may just have invented a new creepy villain here, the insidious replacer of arms with a gnomish prosthesis. Now what should we call it?
Or it could be the gnomes that cut off your hands while you slept and replaced them. So everything now "feels" different to you. It happens a lot more than most people think.
That definitely makes it more creepy.
Dark_Mistress |
Dark_Mistress wrote:Dark Mistress may just have invented a new creepy villain here, the insidious replacer of arms with a gnomish prosthesis. Now what should we call it?
Or it could be the gnomes that cut off your hands while you slept and replaced them. So everything now "feels" different to you. It happens a lot more than most people think.
I just call them minions. :)
Asgetrion |
Dark_Mistress wrote:I just call them minions. :)
Dark Mistress may just have invented a new creepy villain here, the insidious replacer of arms with a gnomish prosthesis. Now what should we call it?
Substitute "dwarven" for "gnomish" in that sentence, and you have my nephew in all his fiendish glory! ;)
Asgetrion |
Asgetrion wrote:Thanks, Brandon and James! This helped a lot...
I agree, fireball may not be the best choice for a haunt. However, the idea behind "Fireball Haunt" was not that of a ghost that just casts a fireball and vanishes; rather, I had thought of a burning, tormented soul who has died violently in a fire, and manifests as a scary-looking, mad figure engulfed in flames... flames that slowly start spreading around the room to engulf player characters.
Thanks!
I'll take your imagery one step further: when the haunt manifests, it replays the psychic residue of those souls who died in the flames, replaying their last final seconds as the flesh melts from their bones. The PCs (on a failed Will save) actually experience the physical and mental anguish of the victims that died in the fire, and see themselves as the scorched, blackened dying as the flames -in full conflagration -roar around them. Just as fast as they appeared, they vanish, yet the blackened skin remains.
Of course, I'm not necessarily saying there isn't already a haunt like this in some later chapter of Carrion Crown. Could be...could be... (!)
Hey -whaddaya know...I CAN write decent haunt flavor when the sun is shining! =-)
Brandon
Wow, that's amazing; I'm definitely stealing that for the next session! Thanks, Brandon! It doesn't matter even matter if Carrion Crown features an "identical" haunt, because I'm probably going to run it for another group. :)
(here's a tip: there's no better source of inspiration than a few whispered prayers to Asmodeus -- or an Inquisitor standing right behind your shoulder, with a whip in his hand! Well, moving into Pett's attic might help, too, but even if you could avoid being devoured it would surely cost you your last shreds of sanity... ;))
Aberzombie |
Finished reading through this the other night. I loved it. For me, it invoked thoughts of Ravenloft, Dark Shadows, and Cthulhu mythos style stories.
Loved the expansions on:
Haunts - very versatile use of undead. I think they've become one of my new favorites. That article had some great examples.
Animated Objects - to me have a lot of potential for not only something that's deadly serious and dangerous, but that can also be fun. Imagine being attacked my the contents of a kitchen.
The Trust rules were...interesting. Not sure how I'll really feel about them until I get to use them in game play.
The article on the town was excellent. Seems like an interesting place.
Brutal Ben |
Or it could be the gnomes that cut off your hands while you slept and replaced them. So everything now "feels" different to you. It happens a lot more than most people think.
Or more likely he got really drunk and then he was convinced by a friend of his to make a deal with the Robot Devil!
John Benbo RPG Superstar 2011 Top 8 |
zabei |
I am so excited to be ordering this story line! As well as the Inner Sea World Guide.
I have never been someone to buy modules, but then I purchased the Osirion-set "Entombed with the Pharaohs" & "Stone Pact Pyramid".
Those have been it for me until I came here & saw Feiyi, the iconic Witch, in the art for this storyline. I want to order it all just for that.
I am glad that this iconic is being included. Such a great party lined up. Perhaps I will get to run this campaign some day, but for now I get it for the story and the art. Thanks Paizo!!
Wolf Munroe |
I just got my copy today. It looks awesome. My only problem is not with the module but the group I DM. They won't let go of 3.5 and I've gotta convert it back to run it... for now.
Hopefully they will only resist my needling for so long before they give in.
Just houserule all of Pathfinder RPG and run it as though it's 3.5e. ;-)
"OK, guys, I'm going to introduce a few house rules. From now on, feats are every two levels. Oh, but I'm changing some of the feats so I'll get together with each of you to discuss your feats soon. Oh, another rule, now more healing cantrips or orisons, but that's because I'm allowing unlimited casting of level-0 spells."
Introduce a few new Pathfinder house rules to the game very session and before they know it, they'll be playing PRPG. ;-) Convert one of the PCs to the Pathfinder equivalent character before each session. (This could be a problem if they're using non-core 3.5e feats/classes though.) You don't have to justify using Pathfinder creatures and CRs as 3.5e DMs can introduce their own monsters anyway.
========================================================================
On another note, I just got my copy of Haunting of Harrowstone and I too noticed that it was "floppier" than some of the previous AP volumes. It also "seemed" thicker though, so not sure what the deal is there. This isn't a complaint at all, just saying it's not quite the same as the others in my perception.
John Benbo RPG Superstar 2011 Top 8 |
Spanky the Leprechaun |
Spanky the Leprechaun wrote:I just finished reading the Adventure Background. I'm hooked. I want to run this right now.Wow.
Best. Adventure background. Ever.
Tweaking hardcore.
I know....it's compelling as hell.
One of my soon players said he wanted toNeil Spicer Contributor, RPG Superstar 2009, RPG Superstar Judgernaut |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
John Benbo wrote:Spanky the Leprechaun wrote:Wow. Best. Adventure background. Ever. Tweaking hardcore.I just finished reading the Adventure Background. I'm hooked. I want to run this right now.I know....it's compelling as hell.
One of my soon players said he wanted to
** spoiler omitted **
If I were you guys...
...I'd take a page from how Erik Mona ran a session in his Age of Worms campaign, whereby he had the players set aside their regular PCs for the evening and handed out stock NPCs for them to play. It was a scene where they were all doomed to die, falling victim one-by-one to the horrors unleashed that evening. Then, when they reverted back to their regular PCs the next session, they all got to explore the aftermath of that location where all the murderous activity took place.
I could easily see an awesome game of "Haunting of Harrowstone" playing out that way, too. Just give the players some NPC guards to play at the prison during the riot. Have TSM and all the other baddies totally ruin their day. Maybe even add some ghosts or haunts from the deaths of these NPC guards for the players' regular PCs to experience when they eventually visit the haunted prison 50 years later.
If I were a player in a game like that, I'd have an absolute blast. That's because it immediately invests the players in the backstory of the location and the individual stories of all those evil ghosts, haunts, and undead filling the place. You just need to make sure you can trust the players to keep their knowledge separate from that of their PCs, of course. But, in the end, it could make for one of the most memorable game experiences of your roleplaying lives.
Just my two cents,
--Neil
gbonehead Owner - House of Books and Games LLC |
Spanky the Leprechaun wrote:John Benbo wrote:Spanky the Leprechaun wrote:Wow. Best. Adventure background. Ever. Tweaking hardcore.I just finished reading the Adventure Background. I'm hooked. I want to run this right now.I know....it's compelling as hell.
One of my soon players said he wanted to
** spoiler omitted **If I were you guys...
** spoiler omitted **
Just my two cents,
--Neil
Awesome. Truly awesome. I think I'll use something like that in my Friday night epic game - they're about to go up into a long-abandoned Lovecraftian plateau infested with mu-spores (the players don't like plateaus much) and will discover that it is even worse than they thought.
I love the idea of them playing some of the precursor dwarves trying to stave off the horror on Day One - the day the mountains fell on the city and Other things arrived ...
James Jacobs Creative Director |
John Benbo RPG Superstar 2011 Top 8 |
Spanky the Leprechaun wrote:John Benbo wrote:Spanky the Leprechaun wrote:Wow. Best. Adventure background. Ever. Tweaking hardcore.I just finished reading the Adventure Background. I'm hooked. I want to run this right now.I know....it's compelling as hell.
One of my soon players said he wanted to
** spoiler omitted **If I were you guys...
** spoiler omitted **
Just my two cents,
--Neil
Cool, idea. Thanks! Reading it also makes me want to run ala it "Ghostbusters."
ruemere |
I was immediately hooked at opening scene.
I've had a concern regarding timing of events.
So, the question here is why would the PCs not to try taking the shortcut?
I have three additional questions, as I run games for gals and guys who care about such details:
With so many haunts in place, and with players being low on supply of ghost traps, what would be the best course of action for players to learn means to resolve haunt challenges? The spirit plank works once per day, and the challenges happen more often... of course, one could use haunts to keep the players from progressing too fast, but the truth is that players are quite likely to ignore non lethal haunts.
Finally, is there a way to explain how Mrs V. became the secondary guardian of the prison? I know her case, but her gaining this ability to resolve problems immediately after her ex-husband disappears, is somewhat difficult to fit into d20... after scenario, me and my players have this custom of talking over adventures, and asking about details.
I'd like to be able to provide logical and believable background.
Regards,
Rumere
Ask a Shoanti |
I have three additional questions, as I run games for gals and guys who care about such details:
Regards,
Rumere
I'll take a shot at a couple of these:
Re: Water Logistics
A. While the chamber was once level, there's now a depression where the pooling has occurred in area U1. The water is seeping away on the eastern side where it is draining into the water table below - the path of least resistance.
Re: Vesora
I'd like to be able to provide logical and believable background.
A. It's not quite immediate. The PCs need to connect her to her husband's legacy. He's a powerful symbol as Hawkran has held the prisoners in check for a very long time. The PCs are to bring a symbol of her husband's office - Vesora recommends his badge of office (area U8). She becomes the new 'sheriff in town' so to speak. She finds new purpose by taking up his legacy instead of continually mourning the tragedy of their past. Though I take your point, it's not a d20 game mechanic, it's just hardwired into the storyline.
ruemere |
Thank you for your reply.
The pond has been described as overlying sunken portion of dungeons (sunken in mining sense) fifty years ago. As such, the water surface should be pretty level throughout Harrowstone residence.
While I am quite comfortable with previous guardian holding in check inmates (new rule: ghosts at cross purposes can hold each other in a clinch), the wife becoming the new ghostly guardian is somewhat difficult to explain.
Regards,
Ruemere
Keith Taschner |
You could state that V needs the symbol of the warden (and possibly the defeat of the five) as an event that changes her perception of herself and her circumstance. So instead of being controlled by her past, she now feels able to control it instead. Maybe she was always more powerful than she thought but had thought she was weak and unable to help her husband.
Alternatively (and this is really unpolished and probably unhelpful), you could look at inventing a ritual to bind the authority of the badge to her - possibly based on what the Whispering Way was doing with the binding of the sheriff's spirit.
Haken Aspengrass |
Does it ever say, or is there any guideline on the date when Haunting of Harrowstone begins? I know the current year in Golarion is 4711 (ISWG), but what's the date? Or at least the time of year? I understand that these are written to be open for GMs to play with, but I just don't wanna randomly pick a date and then have a conflict later on.
James Jacobs Creative Director |
Does it ever say, or is there any guideline on the date when Haunting of Harrowstone begins? I know the current year in Golarion is 4711 (ISWG), but what's the date? Or at least the time of year? I understand that these are written to be open for GMs to play with, but I just don't wanna randomly pick a date and then have a conflict later on.
Nope; as with pretty much all of our adventures, the day it begins is up to the GM.
Robert G. McCreary |
Newbie here but can anyone tell me where I'd find the rules for the new animated object special attack 'Shackle' from this edition?
Thanks
The shackle ability was cut during development, but it was accidentally left in the stat block. The animated manacles have the grab ability, which replaces it, so just ignore that line.
Wildebob |
Ok, maybe I'm just blind...reading through the adventure, I see that in the event involving the map on page 18 there are supposed to be 5 marked locations where the event starts.
I don't see them. Does anyone else have this issue?
If not, could some kind soul explain to me what I'm missing here?
The one that gets me is on the second floor of Harrowstone, it says on page 40 that some of the cells hang open, and that those open ones are marked with an "X". I cannot find those X's ANYWHERE! Not a single one on any cell in the whole adventure. Either I'm missing something or Paizo missed something. No idea which.
Robert G. McCreary |
Ok, maybe I'm just blind...reading through the adventure, I see that in the event involving the map on page 18 there are supposed to be 5 marked locations where the event starts.
I don't see them. Does anyone else have this issue?
If not, could some kind soul explain to me what I'm missing here?
Those were left off the map, so you can have the skulls appear anywhere you wish. James Jacobs talks about it more here. Each of the Pathfinder AP volumes has its own "GM Reference" thread, where we try to post answers like these.
Spiral_Ninja |
Spiral_Ninja wrote:Those were left off the map, so you can have the skulls appear anywhere you wish. James Jacobs talks about it more here. Each of the Pathfinder AP volumes has its own "GM Reference" thread, where we try to post answers like these.Ok, maybe I'm just blind...reading through the adventure, I see that in the event involving the map on page 18 there are supposed to be 5 marked locations where the event starts.
I don't see them. Does anyone else have this issue?
If not, could some kind soul explain to me what I'm missing here?
Thanks. Nice to know I can still read.
Next time I'll check the GM thread first.