Pathfinder Campaign Setting: The Inner Sea World Guide (PFRPG)

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Pathfinder Campaign Setting: The Inner Sea World Guide (PFRPG)
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The Best of All Possible Worlds

Discover the world of Golarion, the official campaign setting for the smash-hit Pathfinder Roleplaying Game! A time of lost prophecies grips the world, bringing with it an unending maelstrom, a tear in the fabric of reality, a surge of diabolism, and the endless threat of war. Yet all is not lost, for these dark times provide ample opportunity for adventure and heroism.

    Inside this exciting and informative 320-page tome you will find:
  • Detailed summaries of the player character races native to Golarion, including more than a dozen distinct human ethnicities
  • Elaborate gazetteers of more than 40 crumbling empires, expansionist kingdoms, independent city-states, and monster-haunted wildlands of Golarion’s adventure-filled Inner Sea region, with locations perfect for nearly any type of fantasy campaign
  • Cultural information and Pathfinder RPG rules covering the 20 core deities of the Inner Sea, plus entries on other gods, demigods, forgotten deities, weird cults, strange philosophies, and more!
  • An overview of the Inner Sea’s history, a look at time and space, a discussion of magical artifacts and technological wonders, discussions of important factions and organizations, and hundreds of locations ripe for adventure!
  • Tons of new options for player characters, including Inner Sea-themed prestige classes, feats, spells, adventuring gear, and magic items!
  • Nine new monsters, including exotic humanoids of the skies and seas, undead and dragons, and an angry demon lord in exile!
  • A giant 21.75"x33" poster map that reveals the sweeping landscape of the Inner Sea in all its treacherous glory!

by James Jacobs with Keith Baker, Wolfgang Baur, Clinton J. Boomer, Jason Bulmahn, Joshua J. Frost, Ed Greenwood, Stephen S. Greer, Jeff Grubb, Michael Kortes, Tito Leati, Mike McArtor, Rob McCreary, Erik Mona, Jason Eric Nelson, Jeff Quick, Sean K Reynolds, F. Wesley Schneider, Leandra Christine Schneider, David Schwartz, Amber E. Scott, Stan!, Owen K.C. Stephens, Todd Stewart, James L. Sutter, Greg A. Vaughan, Jeremy Walker, and JD Wiker

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-269-2

Note: This product is part of the Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscription.

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Pathfinder Campaign Setting: The Inner Sea World Guide (PFRPG)

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The Kitchen Sink, and Everything But

5/5

To put it simply, the Inner Sea World Guide is *the* setting book for Pathfinder. There are several other books (softcovers) that provide more insight into particular areas, but this is the book that introduces the whole shebang. Weighing in at 318 pages, it provides an overview of everything that makes up Pathfinder's official campaign setting: the Inner Sea region of the planet Golarion. There are entries on each of the core races and human ethnicities, overviews of each of the nations of the region, a chapter on gods and religion, miscellaneous information like holidays and languages, an introduction to some major organisations that PCs might belong to (or fight against), player-facing material like new equipment and prestige classes, and finally a handful of new monsters for the GM. In short, there is a *lot* of information in the book and I've come to rely on it heavily.

In terms of overall production quality, a reader won't be disappointed. It's attractively laid out, with tons of maps, artwork (some of it recycled from earlier Paizo products), sidebars, etc. It's clear that a lot of love and attention to detail went into the book, which makes sense as it's one of the premier products in the Pathfinder line.

An Introduction (4 pages) kicks things off. One page is a map of the entire Inner Sea region. The theme of the setting is encapsulated nicely: against all prophecies, the God of Humanity, Aroden, has died suddenly, leading to a world "where nothing is foretold, and anything can happen." From another perspective, that's really what Golarion is: a kitchen-sink setting where no matter what kind of fantasy game-play your group wants, it can find a place for it--whether it's gothic tales of horror, swashbuckling tales of pirates, barbarians with laser-swords, steampunk gunslingers, or more traditional elves and wizards. The sum really is greater than the parts, and somehow it all works. The entire setting has a surprisingly rich and detailed history, which helps to tie everything together into a more coherent whole. The Introduction also contains a really nice in-game summary of the Pathfinder Society and a short sidebar explaining how the Inner Sea World Guide has expanded upon and updated the two previous overviews of the setting (the Gazetteer and Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting, respectively).

Chapter 1 is Races (22 pages). It starts with a *very* brief overview (a sentence or two each) of where some of the uncommon humanoid races (like tieflings or kobolds) fit into the Inner Sea before devoting a single-page to each of the human ethnicities of Golarion (many with sensitively-handled analogues to real world cultures) and then the other core races like elves, dwarves, etc.. I'm not necessarily a fan of this way of handling things, as it gives the appearance that only humans have different ethnicities while all the other core races are homogeneous. Still, the chapter does succeed in adding a ton of Golarion-specific lore that is absent from the setting-neutral Core Rulebook.

Chapter 2, "The Inner Sea" (184 pages) is clearly the heart (and, by page-count, a full half) of the book. It starts by explaining that the Inner Sea consists of the continents of Avistan and (northern) Garund, explaining that the planet of Golarion contains several other continents that are outside the scope of the book. There's a detailed timeline of the setting's in-game history, which makes for interesting reading once some additional context is provided. The bulk of the chapter consists of four-page entries on each of the major countries/regions of the Inner Sea. Each entry starts with a sidebar giving basic information (like notable settlements, rulers, population, etc.) and is then sub-divided by topics: history, government, and a gazetteer of notable locations. There are 41 of these entries in alphabetical order, so it's pretty hard to cover them adequately in a review like this. I think the best thing to do is repeat my earlier point that there's a place for almost everything somewhere: revolutionary America has an analogue in Andoran, revolutionary France is Galt, Osiron is ancient Egypt, etc. But there are also some very original countries, like Razmiran (a theocracy ruled by a con-man), Rahadoum (a country that has turned against the gods and where worship is illegal), the Worldwound (a wasteland devastated by the presence of an open portal to demonic planes), the Mana Wastes (where magic doesn't work, and technology has stepped in), and so much more. If nothing else, each entry serves as a nice overview to give the area some basic flavour, and then a GM who really wants more detail can look for the matching softcover campaign setting line book for more depth. I was particularly intrigued by the eight page "Beyond the Inner Sea" section, which is more detailed than I would have thought (and definitely worth expanding someday, Paizo!).

Chapter 3, "Religion" (32 pages), contains a half-page introduction to each of the "Core 20" deities of the setting. Other gods get a paragraph or two, but there's also space devoted to archdevils, demon lords, elemental lords, dead gods, and philosophies. It's enough to get started, though serious players and GMs will likely want more detailed information. In terms of game-play mechanics, two new clerical domains (Scalykind and Void) are introduced here.

Chapter 4, "Life" is sadly just ten pages long. This is the chapter that covers the calendar, holidays and festivals, languages, weather and climate, and distinctive flora and fauna, among other subjects. There are some nice samples of things that make Golarion distinctive, but it would be good to someday have an "Inner Sea Almanac" that expanded on the little things that don't seem exciting but help add a major degree of verisimilitude to the setting.

Chapter 5, "Factions" (14 pages) provides a two-page introduction to five different organisations: the Aspis Consortium (an unprincipled group of colonialists & merchants), the Eagle Knights (anti-slavery freedom-fighters), the Hellknights (extremely strict "law and order" types), the Pathfinder Society (explorers and treasure-hunters), and the Red Mantis (assassins). Several lesser groups also get a one-paragraph overview. Overall, the chapter again serves nicely as a brief introduction, though more detailed information on each of the groups is available elsewhere.

Chapter 6, "Adventuring" (30 pages) is for the players. It starts with suggestions on where in the Inner Sea various classes might hail from. It then introduces four new prestige classes: the Harrower (a cool fortune-teller with an interesting suite of special abilities), the Hellknight (an armored juggernaut), the Low Templar (a sort of cowardly knight; it's hard to envision this one appealing widely), and the Red Mantis Assassin (maybe more for GMs than players, but with some eye-raising abilities). The chapter introduces several new feats; most of them are forgettable but a couple (like Rapid Reload and Fey Foundling) have become crucial to some builds and are, frankly, probably overpowered. The chapter provides updated rules for several pieces of equipment introduced in earlier adventure paths, including goblin weapons like dogslicers, Shoanti weapons like the Earth breaker, and more. It also briefly covers firearms, which are suitably rare and problematic (until someone plays a Gunslinger). Finally, there are some new spells (the most famous of which is infernal healing) and magic items (many of which are essential to parts of the campaign setting, like the final blades for Galt, the sun orchid elixir for Thuvia, and wardstones for the Worldwound). On the whole, I don't think buying the book purely for the "crunch" would be a good idea; the material in this chapter is only a supplement to what's essentially a "flavour/fluff" book.

Chapter 7, "Monsters" (14 pages) starts off with a nice overview of the role that various traditional groups of monsters (like dragons, trolls, ogres, etc.) play in Golarion. It then goes on to introduce seven new monsters, each with a 1-page Bestiary-style entry. Potential players will be interested to see that two of them, Gillmen and Strix, are given rules to make them playable races. Rise of the Runelords GMs may be interested to see full stats for the Sandpoint Devil.

As I write this review, Pathfinder Second Edition is on the horizon and Paizo has said they plan to update the official setting with the "results" of all previous adventure paths. For now, however, the Inner Sea World Guide is the best one-stop resource to get started on anything involving the Inner Sea. Lots of books have more on a single given topic, but no book has so much on so many different topics when it comes to the Inner Sea.


Incredible Product

5/5

So I had a few new players starting a session zero, but after making characters, they wanted to jump in to a game. I had nothing prepared because we were deciding what type of game we were going to play. After thirty minutes and this book, I had a strong beginning to a campaign. Every location, government and current events in this book is PERFECT for a campaign. So many starting points and storyline openings. Rich with interesting information and plot hooks. Easy five star and beautiful map. Thanks paizo


An Engaging Setting

5/5

This was the first Pathfinder Campaign Setting product I bought. That would have been early in 2013. I was curious about the references to Golarion in the Core Rule Book and wanted to know more. I got what I wanted in spades! This is an excellent resource for the Golarion setting.

I recently bought the PDF because I forgot where I had put my hard copy. It's excellent because I can just open the file on my computer, find what I'm looking for with a bookmark and I'm good to go.


The Inner Sea is Good for Me

5/5

This is a great resource book. The layout is great and even if you don't feel like using the various nations of The Inner Sea itself it the book gives you tons of ideas on how to build your own fantacy nations. The kinds of civilizations are diverse and all look like great places to have adventures in and make me want to read all of the Campaign Setting product line.

Add to that the feats, prestige classes, items, and the handful of monsters and you've got icing on what is already a great cake of a book.

All in all definitely worth the $9.99 asking price for the PDF!


Best RPG Product Ever

5/5

I can honestly say this is the best RPG product I've ever bought. There's so much reading in it, and I keep dipping back into it over and over again.

This book made me fall in love with Golarion, and each entry has made me dive off looking for more in the campaign setting and tales line.

If you haven't already hit the link to buy, then stop reading and do it now, you deserve it!


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Liberty's Edge

Gorbacz wrote:
Mike Silva wrote:

Got mine yesterday, and I got it save it may be the sexiest game book I've ever own. Great chooses on the old art to bring back and the new art is equally amazing.

On that note who does the art for the Prophet of Kalistade(and is that really the prophet?), Maurya-Rahm Advisor, Queen Telandia Edasseril, Chernasardo Ranger, Aspis Consortium Gold Agent?

I love his/her art!

That would be Carolina Eade. Her style, while not universal, is absolutely amazing when applied right.

She and Eric Belisle are my fave recent new artist in Paizo books. More Carolina, I say!

Eric Belisle is also totes sweet!

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Mike Silva wrote:
...said lots of nice things...

Thanks! As for some of your questions...

Mike Silva wrote:
About the languages, why no Boggard?

Because we only allocated a single page for languages. That meant some of those languages had to get cut. Boggard's one of them. The language is still spoken in the Inner Sea Region, of course, but mostly only by boggards, and since they're pretty small-fry compared to most other races, their language didn't get mentioned. There's a LOT of other languages that didn't make the cut for the same reason.

Mike Silva wrote:
Are the write ups on in the faction sections on top of what is in the Factions book or overrides them?

They should work together fine. If there's direct contradictions, though, assume that the info in the Inner Sea World Guide is the correct information.

Mike Silva wrote:
Love all the updated prestige classes, though I miss the shackles pirate, and hope we get an update version of the class in another book.

We chose to replace the shackles pirate with the hellknight because the shackles pirate wasn't all that useful. It's a nautical class in a game that doesn't have strong support for nautical adventuring, first off, and second—it's limited to a very specific part of the world, so even if the game DID have robust nautical support, this class would still be terribly limited in that so many of its powers and themes locked it in to a single part of the world. It might come back if and when we do a book about the Shackles or the Sodden Lands or something like that, but it's simply WAY TOO SPECIALIZED to justify taking up two pages in a book that's supposedly focusing on the big picture of the setting.

Mike Silva wrote:
Great to see some of those monsters updated, but how do you tease me with Ahriman in the Thuvia section and not give me updated Divs. I demand it!!! :P

Patience. Updated divs are coming.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The decision to remove the Shackles Pirate was a good one. I always was scratching my head about why it happened in the first place.

Mad props for keeping the Low Templar around, on the other hand.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

John Lynch 106 wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
have been updated to improve compatibility with iPad and iPhone PDF readers as well as with Apple's Preview application under OS X 10.6. The editorial content of the files has not changed.
So much for it taking a couple of weeks. Thankyou very much Vic and to everyone who worked on that (which I understand were quite a few).

It turns out that Crystal figured out a way to fix the problem without having to regenerate the bookmarks, so the editors didn't need to look at it again!


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I don't think I said it yet, but the book is gorgeous. In my opinion the best setting book I have ever owned.

Liberty's Edge

Also, Mutant Gnolls are brilliant! That is all.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kle wrote:


I still find your request bizarre.

A Request for a change-log is a bizarre request?

Well I find my request perfectly reasonable

Liberty's Edge

Is there any difference between the Hellknight prestige class detailed in "What Lies in Dust" to the one in this book?

I don't currently own "What Lies in Dust" but was thinking of picking up because one of my players is playing a Hellknight.

Paizo Employee Franchise Manager

In this case a change-log would involve nearly every page of the book, as there are very few pages of entirely new content and even fewer that are directly, 100% reprinted material from other sources.

And given that it'd take someone going through the whole book from start to finish to generate, it's essentially redeveloping the whole book from scratch.

But if fans are up for the task, I can certainly see the usefulness of such a project. Perhaps the fine folks at PathfinderWiki would undertake it as part of their already ambitious "Inner Sea World Guide Inclusion Initiative."

Paizo Employee Franchise Manager

Mike Silva wrote:

Is there any difference between the Hellknight prestige class detailed in "What Lies in Dust" to the one in this book?

I don't currently own "What Lies in Dust" but was thinking of picking up because one of my players is playing a Hellknight.

Yes, the What Lies in Dust version has a different key Ability score and is a 15-level PrC instead of the 10-level one presented in this book.

That said, there's a full article on Hellknights in there beyond just the PrC, so it may be worth checking out just for that.

Liberty's Edge

I've noticed that almost all prestige classes using the Pathfinder rules have 10 levels. Was there a reason why the Hellknight in What Lies in Dust has 15?

Was there a reason to update us with a new Hellknight prestige class?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Mike Silva wrote:

I've noticed that almost all prestige classes using the Pathfinder rules have 10 levels. Was there a reason why the Hellknight in What Lies in Dust has 15?

Was there a reason to update us with a new Hellknight prestige class?

The 15 level prestige class was sort of a rules experiment. One we decided proved to us that 10 levels is better for a prestige class—if you're going 15 levels, just bite the bullet and make it a base class!

As for why we reprinted it in the first place... because a lot of players want the prestige class rules to look at, and a lot of GMs won't let/aren't comfortable letting players look at the Adventure Paths.


So I was perusing the tome, and noticed that the gorilla kings seem to be amassing extremely large and experimental siege engines.

On page 111, it says the gorilla king captured an experimental bombard in an attack on Alkenstar in 4690.

On page 183, Taldor's Sixth Army of Exploration was annihilated by the gorilla king of the time, and captured Worldbreaker, a powerful magical siege engine.

Crazy monkeys

Liberty's Edge

Izkrael wrote:

So I was perusing the tome, and noticed that the gorilla kings seem to be amassing extremely large and experimental siege engines.

On page 111, it says the gorilla king captured an experimental bombard in an attack on Alkenstar in 4690.

On page 183, Taldor's Sixth Army of Exploration was annihilated by the gorilla king of the time, and captured Worldbreaker, a powerful magical siege engine.

Crazy monkeys

If I was monkey that's what I would do...

Liberty's Edge

Mike Silva wrote:
Izkrael wrote:

So I was perusing the tome, and noticed that the gorilla kings seem to be amassing extremely large and experimental siege engines.

On page 111, it says the gorilla king captured an experimental bombard in an attack on Alkenstar in 4690.

On page 183, Taldor's Sixth Army of Exploration was annihilated by the gorilla king of the time, and captured Worldbreaker, a powerful magical siege engine.

Crazy monkeys

If I was monkey that's what I would do...

Ahhhh

What are monkeys know to fling?

Were in trouble!


Ok, I couldn't wait for the hardcopy to arrive and bought the PDF.

Short Version: FANTASTIC.

Longer Version:
More detail, better organzied, great expanded content.

...with one notable retcon example.

The damn firearms. I compared the entries, the origin has changed somewhat but what induced eye-rolling was the change from a niche technology overshadowed by magic to a technology that "seems to be gaining a foothold".

I know we've got the Gunslinger class coming out, but really? No frakkin-thanks.

Granted, it's easy enough to undo the retcon and excise it from existence in a GM's campaign, relegating firearms to Alkenstar-obscurity. But if this is a precursor of an ever-growing presence of firearms in Pathfinder products, count me out.

That nugget aside, however, a fantastic book and I eagerly await the physical book to arrive.

Thanks, Paizo!

(But seriously, please keep the firearms optional...) :)


BPorter wrote:

Ok, I couldn't wait for the hardcopy to arrive and bought the PDF.

Short Version: FANTASTIC.

Longer Version:
More detail, better organzied, great expanded content.

...with one notable retcon example.

The damn firearms. I compared the entries, the origin has changed somewhat but what induced eye-rolling was the change from a niche technology overshadowed by magic to a technology that "seems to be gaining a foothold".

I know we've got the Gunslinger class coming out, but really? No frakkin-thanks.

Granted, it's easy enough to undo the retcon and excise it from existence in a GM's campaign, relegating firearms to Alkenstar-obscurity. But if this is a precursor of an ever-growing presence of firearms in Pathfinder products, count me out.

That nugget aside, however, a fantastic book and I eagerly await the physical book to arrive.

Thanks, Paizo!

(But seriously, please keep the firearms optional...) :)

Don't worry too much about the firearms because, as has been pointed out in the PFS forums where the topic of which guns exist in Golarion is more pertinent, that Golarion's current tech level for firearms is equal to 1600's or early 1700's Earth at the best. Not every firearm that will be in Ultimate Combat will exist on Golarion and those guns on the "cutting edge" would be very rare and hard to find. So the official version of Golarion will not have the dual six-shooter toting Gunslinger running around and will be more like the Three Musketeers type with dual single-shot pistols who has to whip out the sword after firing off those two shots. And, personally, I like that concept.


Actually, I do worry about it a fair bit. The retcon I cite from the 3.5 version is evidence enough that "firearm influence" may be occurring in the setting canon. Couple that with Greenwood's Alkenstar web fiction & the Gunslinger class and I see it potentially shaping up to be a significant problem.

As for a musket-style fire-and-draw steel kind of game, if I were playing in a Freeport or Iron Kingdoms campaign, I wouldn't mind it. But I'm running compaigns in Golarion that are influenced by many sources, but are primarily grounded in swords-and-sorcery roots/traditions (plate armor, lances, bows, cavaliers, swords, axes, mail armor, etc.). I want something closer to Conan, knights, & traditional fantasy than I want a RPG set in a tech era comparable to the 15-18th centuries. I want that classic late-medieval/early renaissance period that the games' roots and traditions started with.

Bottom line, firearms can drastically change the tone and feel of a setting. Under the original paradigm of "primarily in Alkenstar", GMs could increase the prevalence of firearms but setting canon effectively relegated it to a niche technology. Just as it's easier to add magic in than take it out, the same applies to tech. Pathfinder is High Fantasy - prevalent magic comes with the territory. Prevalent firearms, regardless of tech/effectiveness -- no thanks.


BPorter wrote:

Actually, I do worry about it a fair bit. The retcon I cite from the 3.5 version is evidence enough that "firearm influence" may be occurring in the setting canon. Couple that with Greenwood's Alkenstar web fiction & the Gunslinger class and I see it potentially shaping up to be a significant problem.

As for a musket-style fire-and-draw steel kind of game, if I were playing in a Freeport or Iron Kingdoms campaign, I wouldn't mind it. But I'm running compaigns in Golarion that are influenced by many sources, but are primarily grounded in swords-and-sorcery roots/traditions (plate armor, lances, bows, cavaliers, swords, axes, mail armor, etc.). I want something closer to Conan, knights, & traditional fantasy than I want a RPG set in a tech era comparable to the 15-18th centuries. I want that classic late-medieval/early renaissance period that the games' roots and traditions started with.

Bottom line, firearms can drastically change the tone and feel of a setting. Under the original paradigm of "primarily in Alkenstar", GMs could increase the prevalence of firearms but setting canon effectively relegated it to a niche technology. Just as it's easier to add magic in than take it out, the same applies to tech. Pathfinder is High Fantasy - prevalent magic comes with the territory. Prevalent firearms, regardless of tech/effectiveness -- no thanks.

+1


Ran into a problem....my FLGS has not got it in yet...and it will be awhile. Apperently his distributor got the shipment in and 50% to 75% had a misprint(they were upside down)....so I am going have to wait. :(

I am wonderring is his distributor is telling the truth...or just lieing? As they...always seem late with stuff. So did this misprint...or better yet mis- binding? happen?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

We've set up firearms in Golarion so that they are at the cusp of something for a specific purpose—so that each and every individual GM can decide for himself if he wants them to play a big or a small role in his version of Golarion.

While the role of gunslingers and firearms is yet to be determined in the Pathfinder Society organized play campaign, I can tell you as the creative director of Paizo that, at this point, we have no plans to "force" firearms into your game. There's no plans to include fireamrs in Adventure Paths, in modules, or in any other product line we do. If and when we DO do something with them, I strongly suspect and hope that we'll do so in the framework of something like a "Guide to the Mana Wastes" or something that'll be relatively self-contained.

Of course, a lot can change in years or even months, so this time next year that could well be a different story. But from where I'm sitting right now, I can tell you that, beyond "Ultimate Combat" (which is where the Gunslinger is being introduced, along with lots of firearms), we have no current plans to do much more with firearms in Golarion. In fact, a comparasion between the firearms presence in the Inner Sea World Guide and the previous hardcover should show that there's actually LESS firearms present in this version of the campaign setting.

It really is up to each individual GM what role firearms play in Golarion. I know it's a polarizing issue, and that's why they're presented in the way they are.


Thanks for the additional contextual info, James.

I can see why, as a publisher, Paizo would modify it to allow GMs to take it in whichever direction they chose. I still view "lots" of firearms in UC to be cracking Pandora's box wider than necessary, but I can appreciate Paizo's desire to appeal to as wide a range of players as possible.

I hope that if a future product incorporates firearms it's in a self-contained Mana Wastes guide as you suggest. I think that once the role of firearms has officially broadened, however, it's going to be very tough to put that genie back in the bottle if it doesn't work out...

That said, however, Paizo hasn't let me down yet. Thanks for another GREAT product!

Liberty's Edge

Ganzir wrote:
Kle wrote:


I still find your request bizarre.

A Request for a change-log is a bizarre request?

Well I find my request perfectly reasonable

Yes.

It's like subscribing to a newspaper, and calling them up every day to ask what parts of the paper you might be interested in reading, since you just don't have time to even skim the whole thing.
-Kle.

Liberty's Edge

GeraintElberion wrote:


You misunderstood the process.

He didn't buy a book that he was not interested in reading.

He bought a book, through a subscription which normally provides fantastic reading material, and discovered afterwards that the book was largely a reprint of a book he already owned.

He has no other way of getting the extra information that he did not already own, he could only buy the book. There is no other product available that prints the new information.

So, in order to learn the new stuff he wants to learn he had to also buy redundant stuff as it all came packaged together.

He now wants to know how to access the new stuff without going through the process of re-reading the old stuff that is bundled with it.

The request seems entirely reasonable to me.

He bought a subscription to save money, and should have known that the downside to subscribing is that he might not be equally interested in everything included in that service. Now he wants to have the publisher extract and collate all of the information that he wants out of the product for him personally.

This used to be called wanting to Have Your Cake and Eat It Too, and was considered somewhat contemptible.

Paizo makes products. AFAIK, they are not in the personalized service business. Maybe he has a friend who wants to read the whole thing and will highlight the stuff he wants to read for him, while reading the book. It seems downright wacky to me that he thinks Paizo would do it, though.
-Kle.


Klebert L. Hall wrote:


This used to be called wanting to Have Your Cake and Eat It Too, and was considered somewhat contemptible.

-Kle.

You know I have never understood this particular Cliche. I mean who wants cake you are not allowed to EAT. If I am given cake I expect to eat it. If someone gives me cake and then says I cannot eat it.. well then what is the purpose of the cake? Cakes are delicacies.

Quite honestly if someone asked me if I wanted cake and then said by eating it I would be somehow contemptible, than I am going to throw it back in their face.

To me this cliche would be like saying the following:

He wants to have his salary and spend it too.

What other point is there to salary other than spending it? (if you are purchasing health care or rent, or paying bills, you are still spending it).


Mournblade94 wrote:
Klebert L. Hall wrote:


This used to be called wanting to Have Your Cake and Eat It Too, and was considered somewhat contemptible.

-Kle.

You know I have never understood this particular Cliche. I mean who wants cake you are not allowed to EAT. If I am given cake I expect to eat it. If someone gives me cake and then says I cannot eat it.. well then what is the purpose of the cake? Cakes are delicacies.

Quite honestly if someone asked me if I wanted cake and then said by eating it I would be somehow contemptible, than I am going to throw it back in their face.

To me this cliche would be like saying the following:

He wants to have his salary and spend it too.

What other point is there to salary other than spending it? (if you are purchasing health care or rent, or paying bills, you are still spending it).

+1


Mournblade94 wrote:


You know I have never understood this particular Cliche. I mean who wants cake you are not allowed to EAT.

It originated as something like "Eat your cat and have it too" which makes a little more sense in meaning, but even this way it still has meaning. You don't have cake after you eat it, but someone who wants both is being unreasonable.

Same for the salary example, you can't have all those things and not spend your money to purchase them.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

John Kretzer wrote:

Ran into a problem....my FLGS has not got it in yet...and it will be awhile. Apperently his distributor got the shipment in and 50% to 75% had a misprint(they were upside down)....so I am going have to wait. :(

I am wonderring is his distributor is telling the truth...or just lieing? As they...always seem late with stuff. So did this misprint...or better yet mis- binding? happen?

I've checked with both sales and customer service, and we've had no distributors complain of any such problems. (I can only recall ever hearing of one copy of one Paizo book that was printed with the cover inverted, and that was with a printer we don't use anymore.) Can you tell us who your retailer is, and/or who his distributor is?

Sovereign Court

Reply to Klebert L. Hall

Spoiler:

Klebert L. Hall wrote:
GeraintElberion wrote:


You misunderstood the process.

He didn't buy a book that he was not interested in reading.

He bought a book, through a subscription which normally provides fantastic reading material, and discovered afterwards that the book was largely a reprint of a book he already owned.

He has no other way of getting the extra information that he did not already own, he could only buy the book. There is no other product available that prints the new information.

So, in order to learn the new stuff he wants to learn he had to also buy redundant stuff as it all came packaged together.

He now wants to know how to access the new stuff without going through the process of re-reading the old stuff that is bundled with it.

The request seems entirely reasonable to me.

He bought a subscription to save money, and should have known that the downside to subscribing is that he might not be equally interested in everything included in that service. Now he wants to have the publisher extract and collate all of the information that he wants out of the product for him personally.

This used to be called wanting to Have Your Cake and Eat It Too, and was considered somewhat contemptible.

Paizo makes products. AFAIK, they are not in the personalized service business. Maybe he has a friend who wants to read the whole thing and will highlight the stuff he wants to read for him, while reading the book. It seems downright wacky to me that he thinks Paizo would do it, though.
-Kle.

I might be impressed by your mind-reading but I don't buy it.

So he subscribed to save money, eh? How do you know that?

And he wants "the publisher [to] extract and collate all of the information that he wants out of the product for him personally." How did you glean this information?

If you re-interpret someones words and present them in an unreasonable way then you are going to make them seem unreasonable.

This is what Grnazir actually wrote:

Granzir wrote:


Hello, one question:

I received my copy today, is there a way to figure out, what is really new?

So far I own every product from the subscriptions you see above my posts, therefor many things detailed in this book (I tend to go so far to say nearly all of them) are already known to me. Many Companions and Setting-Books go in much more detail than this book does etc.

So could someone point out, which pages are interesting to read, if you already have read, well everything there is to read so far regarding pathfinder, since it is really time consuming to read the hole tome again for a few new pieces of information.

Greetz
Ganzir

Seems to me that he was asking for something much more reasonable than your version of his post.

So, can we please not second-guess other people's motives? And can we please not skew what people post?

I only stuck my oar into this particular river to try and help with a misunderstanding and steer the boat to the land of friendly reasonableness. Now I feel like it is sailing into the rocky shores of Lake Trying-to-win-the-internet.

Paizo is a super-friendly board with very little competitive arguing, I'm pretty depressed that I've got dragged into a petty argument here.

We all love Paizo and the stuff they produce. We all adore Golarion. Let's work from the basis that we're all in Team Paizo's cheerleading outfit and not start suggesting that other people on the same team are completely unreasonable.


Vic Wertz wrote:
I've checked with both sales and customer service, and we've had no distributors complain of any such problems. (I can only recall ever hearing of one copy of one Paizo book that was printed with the cover inverted, and that was with a printer we don't use anymore.) Can you tell us who your retailer is, and/or who his distributor is?

Sure...

The retailer is the Gamer's Gambit in Fairlawn NJ.
The distributor I don't know the name of the top of my head, but it is located in Bound Brook NJ. If that is not enough I could try to dig up the name.


John Kretzer wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
I've checked with both sales and customer service, and we've had no distributors complain of any such problems. (I can only recall ever hearing of one copy of one Paizo book that was printed with the cover inverted, and that was with a printer we don't use anymore.) Can you tell us who your retailer is, and/or who his distributor is?

Sure...

The retailer is the Gamer's Gambit in Fairlawn NJ.
The distributor I don't know the name of the top of my head, but it is located in Bound Brook NJ. If that is not enough I could try to dig up the name.

Hello John!

Do you ever go to Time Warp Comics in Cedar Grove NJ? Its not far from Fairlawn. It is on route 23 in Cedar Grove. GREAT gaming crowd and presence.

They have loads of copies there, and that is where I purchased mine. Also on April 3rd I am going to be running a Pathfinder game at Time Warp and hope it turns into a long term campaign.

If you are interested, just let me know!


Mournblade94 wrote:

Hello John!

Do you ever go to Time Warp Comics in Cedar Grove NJ? Its not far from Fairlawn. It is on route 23 in Cedar Grove. GREAT gaming crowd and presence.

They have loads of copies there, and that is where I purchased mine. Also on April 3rd I am going to be running a Pathfinder game at Time Warp and hope it turns into a long term campaign.

If you are interested, just let me know!

My friend is part owner in the store...so I kinda would like to buy it from him...but it might be a book I would like two of...(a loaner copy) so I might swing by Time Warp and pick it up as I really want to read it. It depends on how long it takes for him to get it in...

As to joining a game April 3rd I am interested as I like meeting new groups and such. I wish there was a PM system here...

Liberty's Edge

GeraintElberion wrote:

Reply to Klebert L. Hall

So he subscribed to save money, eh? How do you know that?

Because that is the primary rational reason to subscribe. Perhaps the only rational reason to subscribe.

Quote:
And he wants "the publisher [to] extract and collate all of the information that he wants out of the product for him personally." How did you glean this information?

Because that seems to be what he asked for.

He's entitled to ask anything he wants, and to feel justified in doing so.

I'm entitled to find his request strange, and to comment that I do.

I fail to see the "fight" you're worried about becoming embroiled in.
-Kle.


James Jacobs wrote:
and a lot of GMs won't let/aren't comfortable letting players look at the Adventure Paths.

A perfect reason to take the "Dragon" out of the "Dungeon".


I was a little worried that this book would be redundant as I already own the original campaign setting book. I was wrong! This book is, in my opinion, the best-looking product Paizo have published to date and (also in my opinion) the best looking/laid out RPG book to date!


Well, I just bought the PDF. I have my own campaign world, but Golarion comes up so often in discussions here that I had to satisfy my curiosity. Thanks for the $9.99 PDF option, making curiosity less expensive :) Everything I've seen / heard tells me it will be a worthwhile read. Take it as a compliment Paizo, after 36 (or 37? 1974...) years playing my only other setting related material is Greyhawk (1st Ed AD&D), Blackmoor (First Fantasy Campaign Judges Guild and 3.0 edition Blackmoor stuff), Forgotten Realms (curiosity, couldn't avoid it in Dragon) and Tekumel (which is a bit of an obsession...). It's pretty select company and says something about the quality of your work and how highly I value it.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I took a look at the PDF at the home of a friend... his and my hardcopy are still not even available on Amazon.co.uk. >.<

The books looks fantastic. I am especially happy that the Harrower finally has become a viable PrC for casters ( the first version was just missing too many levels of spellcasting for pretty "eh" abilities ), because the class oozes flavour. I am seriously thinking of pestering my GM in the one round where I am a player to see if she'll allow the class. I could even use my Harrow deck again, which I bought for CotC. :D


Native Outsiders Update - I see that the elemental-descended Ifrit, Oread, Sylph, and Undine have been added officially to Golarion, but the already-extant Suli-jann has not.
Will the Suli similarly be updated from Golarion 3.5 to Golarion PFRPG? If not, are there PFRPG errata to be added to the 3.5 Qadira version?
Comparing the player character stats among the four elementals, aasimar, and tieflings, it seems that a modification easily could be made.
:-)

Grand Lodge

Gemin Blackmoor wrote:

Native Outsiders Update - I see that the elemental-descended Ifrit, Oread, Sylph, and Undine have been added officially to Golarion, but the already-extant Suli-jann has not.

Will the Suli similarly be updated from Golarion 3.5 to Golarion PFRPG? If not, are there PFRPG errata to be added to the 3.5 Qadira version?
Comparing the player character stats among the four elementals, aasimar, and tieflings, it seems that a modification easily could be made.
:-)

The Qadira book was the first PFRPG book released, so the Suli are already PFRPG compliant.


Mournblade94 wrote:


Also on April 3rd I am going to be running a Pathfinder game at Time Warp and hope it turns into a long term campaign.

If you are interested, just let me know!

I am definitly interested.

Send me a e-mail...with any house rules...time...etc. at

This is a spoiler box:
johnkretzer@hotmail.com

and hey if my friend has not the got the copy in by than...I will probably pick it up from Time Warp.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Gemin Blackmoor wrote:

Native Outsiders Update - I see that the elemental-descended Ifrit, Oread, Sylph, and Undine have been added officially to Golarion, but the already-extant Suli-jann has not.

Will the Suli similarly be updated from Golarion 3.5 to Golarion PFRPG? If not, are there PFRPG errata to be added to the 3.5 Qadira version?
Comparing the player character stats among the four elementals, aasimar, and tieflings, it seems that a modification easily could be made.
:-)

Going forward, the ifrit, oread, sylph, and undine are going to have a bigger role in the Inner Sea region than the suli. The suli isn't going anywhere, but we're going to be downplaying him in favor of the four other ones.


This question is a bit strange but I was wondering when this book would be available from stores like Barnes & Noble. As they accept paypal and that is the main way I get my books. Their listing for this book has an out of date picture.


^ You should get the Paypal debit card. Very useful!


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
eggplantman wrote:
This question is a bit strange but I was wondering when this book would be available from stores like Barnes & Noble. As they accept paypal and that is the main way I get my books. Their listing for this book has an out of date picture.

As a BN employee, I can tell you that our system has a current "release date" on this book of April 12th.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

John Kretzer wrote:

Ran into a problem....my FLGS has not got it in yet...and it will be awhile. Apperently his distributor got the shipment in and 50% to 75% had a misprint(they were upside down)....so I am going have to wait. :(

I am wonderring is his distributor is telling the truth...or just lieing? As they...always seem late with stuff. So did this misprint...or better yet mis- binding? happen?

We've tracked this down... your retailer's distributor did receive *one* copy with a binding error, but all of his other copies were just fine. They are, however, currently sold out. They've placed a reorder with us, though, so your retailer should have it soon.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Joseph Wilson wrote:
eggplantman wrote:
This question is a bit strange but I was wondering when this book would be available from stores like Barnes & Noble. As they accept paypal and that is the main way I get my books. Their listing for this book has an out of date picture.
As a BN employee, I can tell you that our system has a current "release date" on this book of April 12th.

Our official release date was March 23; any date other than that was set by somebody who wasn't us.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:


Our official release date was March 23; any date other than that was set by somebody who wasn't us.

Oh, I know. That's why I put "release date" in quotes. BN typically sets a date on your products about 2 to 3 weeks out from your official dates. That, I assume, being owed to the fact that they have to go through the middle-man distributor. I just wanted to give eggplantman some insider info since he was specifically asking about BN. :-)


Vic Wertz wrote:
John Kretzer wrote:

Ran into a problem....my FLGS has not got it in yet...and it will be awhile. Apperently his distributor got the shipment in and 50% to 75% had a misprint(they were upside down)....so I am going have to wait. :(

I am wonderring is his distributor is telling the truth...or just lieing? As they...always seem late with stuff. So did this misprint...or better yet mis- binding? happen?

We've tracked this down... your retailer's distributor did receive *one* copy with a binding error, but all of his other copies were just fine. They are, however, currently sold out. They've placed a reorder with us, though, so your retailer should have it soon.

That is pretty much what I thought happened. I don't like dishonest people....ansd this place is always throwing the publishers under the bus...

Dark Archive

sorry if this was covered, i cannot see where the 'search in this thread" option is.

Quick question about the new hellknight prestige class. The older version from CoT had you use your WIS mod. for the smite chaos, but now it just lists it as per the paladin ability. So its now based on CHA and not WIS?

if so, this makes me sad, I had a great idea for an INQ/ Hellknight (godclaw) character.


Quote:


My friend is part owner in the store...so I kinda would like to buy it from him...but it might be a book I would like two of...(a loaner copy) so I might swing by Time Warp and pick it up as I really want to read it. It depends on how long it takes for him to get it in...

As to joining a game April 3rd I am interested as I like meeting new groups and such. I wish there was a PM system here...

I have been friends with Jim and Dave for ages. I started going there in the 80's when it was across the street in fat moose. I will ask for you by name at timewarp. I am going to talk to Jim on Friday if Sunday April 3rd is still on. I hope to start running the Haunting of Harrowstone after an introductory adventure with pre gens. I will let you know on the email you gave me! Sorry to all the other posters for taking up space. Many thanks!

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