The Genius Guide to the Armiger (PFRPG) PDF

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The Genius Guide to the Armiger introduces the armiger base class—a warrior who specializes in defensive techniques and the use of shields and heavy armor. As a great tactician once noted, the best way to win a fight is to be the last man standing. Or, put more colloquially, sometimes the best offense is a good defense!

Armigers are masters of defense, able to shrug of attacks that would destroy lesser combatants, and even increase the survivability of those around them. The armiger is built around maximizing the benefit of armor and shields. With large hit point totals, special defense-related talents, and an aptitude for unusual shields, armigers can carry the fight forward under the most difficult circumstances. The best armigers often find themselves the main thing standing between victory and a total party kill.

While armigers can fight with most martial weapons, typically they focus on pole arms with reach or crossbows, giving them the ability to strike at foes without having to be on the front line of a battle. This allows armigers to play strong supporting roles and still manage to inflict damage on the enemy. An armiger certainly can fight with other weapons, but just as monks are generally at their best using unarmed attacks, most armigers function better when using reach or simple ranged weapons. Of course they also wear the best armor they can afford, regularly spending much more on shields and plate mail than weapons or comfort items. Armor is the core of an armiger’s identity—an armiger treats his protective gear the way a cleric treats his holy symbol, or a samurai treats his katana.

Many armigers are famous heroes, well known for surviving horrific trials that crushed others before. An armiger may begin his career as a small town hero who, through sheer cussedness, outlasted a terrible troll on a battle over a local bridge. Or he may be a noble-born guardian of his people, trained from birth to wear the heavy armor only members of the upper class can afford. In some lands, entire brigades of armigers are legendary as specialty troops who provide an impenetrable blanket of protection—groups with names such as the Dwarven Ironhides or the Bullette Brigade.

Other armigers are the trusted aids of mighty knights, priests, and archmages—the right-hand men and most loyal supporters of important individuals. These armigers are often less well known than the great leaders and dignitaries they serve, but there presence is palpable and they are perceived as powers to be reckoned with. Killing an armiger’s charge is almost always a secondary concern, to be handled only after you’ve disposed of the armiger.

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***½( ) (based on 5 ratings)

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Worth an Arm and a Leg.

*****

So this is an older product, but I definitely think this needs more recognition, as it's quite the goodie. I've got a lot of respect for classes that are willing to break the rules and change things up, and this definitely does so in a way that's not broken or outlandish, and provides a role parties seldom take for granted, a good tank.

The Genius Guide to the Armiger is an 11 page PDF. It has a d12 hd, a medium BAB, and a good fort/will save. It get's 4 + int mod skill points, and is proficient with all simple weapons, martial melee weapons, the heavy/light repeating crossbow, all types of armors, and all types of shields (including the exotic ones added). The classes starting wealth is where it starts to get interesting. It starts out with 5d6x10 gp.... or a suit of splint mail and 2d3x10 gp. Being able to start out with a ton of AC is nice, though they instantly become a burden when they are hobbling around at 15 feet of movement.

Oh, I suppose I should get into the other feature of it that "breaks the rules". At every level, it rolls a d12 for hitpoints.... but anything below a 6 counts as a 6, so you're averaging out pretty high. "BUT OP OP OP", which I say to that... no, not really. This is a tanking class, and tanking it does. When something breaks the rules like that, it should have a good reason... and this totally does. Starting out with splintmail, a whole boatload of hitpoints and all that good stuff, we're kind of in for a wild ride... or a very safe one if you're the squishy in the back.

The class gets a scaling bonus to AC, and DR which is absolutely awesome. It gets an ability called reflect, which is basically heavy armor only evasion, which is also pretty cool, along with the ability to don it's armor much quicker, and even take an attack for an ally. All of these abilities are very much in the classes MO, and make it so that it does the role it's suppose to do even better.

Also, every few levels it gains an Armiger talent, allowing it to gain or give temporary hit points, act as full cover rather then soft, have uncanny dodge (cleverly named uncanny block), gaining energy resistance and even getting better at bull rushing/overrunning. At 10th you can pick up some advanced talents, letting you even pick up some abjuration spells from the the Cleric or Wizard spell list.

The Capstone pretty much makes it so that the stonewall it was before, it's even better. If there's anything that could lower it's AC, it gets a special fort save to just completely ignore it. Oh, in addition to the fact that it ignores crits and sneak attacks, it gets that multiple times per day. Again, nothing groundbreaking, but makes the class do what it does.

Right before the end it has a few feats that anyone can take, allowing extra AO's that would stack with Combat Reflexes, or the ability to ignore some of the armor penalty. Ending it has some exotic shields that the Armiger is proficient with, but other classes need to pick up the proficiency for, having a shield that you can place some stuff in, a shield that's better against disarming, and even a shield that's got a nice little crit range.

So as an older product, it's a bit hard to get angry at it for not having favored class bonuses or anything like that, as this is getting close to 4 years old, and they didn't have anything like that back then. As a PC class, as much as I like the fact that it's able to subtly change the rules, it's probably not the most fun thing to do, but if you can keep people on you, everyone will think you're the biggest boss around. All in all, a pretty unflawed, if a bit dated class. There has been content released to keep it somewhat up to date, but for the most part looks a little forgotten. Back in the day and even today, really, it's got some out there ideas, and breaking the rules and being a little too powerful so you can nerf it is much easier to fix then having something be too weak. 5 out of 5 stars for the purpose of this review.


Interesting take on the tank, not for everyone, though.

***( )( )

This pdf is 11 pages long 2/3 of a page front cover, 1 page editorial & SRD and 1 page of advertisement, leaving 8 1/3 pages for the Armiger-class, so let’s check out this defensive bullwark!

The new Armiger base-class is an interesting concept, as it’s a primary melee-class with ¾ BAB, 4+Int skills per level, good fort and ref saves and a unique rule regarding hitpoints: They get d12, but if they roll less than 6, they treat the result as 6. Interesting concept, as it ensures that the Armiger has a lot of hitpoints, conceivably more than all other characters. A variant rule for groups that use other means to determine hit points is also presented. This concept of being tougher than everyone else is continued in the Armiger’s abilities, granting him both improving DR while in armor as well as the ability to count as cover for his allies as well as changing places with allies to absorb incoming attacks.

Of course, as with almost any halfway-decent class, the armiger has choices for the player – he gets a selection of talents (10) and advanced talents (6) – from counting as hard cover, gaining more defensive feats to bracing crossbows on shields, gaining elemental resistance.

I have a little concern with regards to the spellguard advanced talents that enable the armiger to cast some abjuration spells from either cleric or wizard lists. Unfortunately, we don't get any information which key ability modifier he uses.

I’m a bit wary of the second level-ability Reflect, too: It lets the Armiger, sans save, halve any damage from a source that enables a reflex save, essentially making the Armiger’s one bad save not too important. I have some balance concerns here. The same goes for the follow-up advanced talent.

The capstone ability sees the Armiger become immune to critical and several other attack-forms.
The pdf also offers extensive advice on how to use the Armiger in your game and offers 5 new feats centering on improving shield attacks and even halve armor penalty to movement.
The pdf closes by providing information on 5 new exotic shields to complement your defensive bulwark.

Conclusion:
Editing and formatting are top-notch, I didn’t notice any glitches. Layout adheres to the three-column standard and the pdf has no bookmarks. I like the idea of the Armiger, but I don’t like its execution: Reflect is simply too strong and gained too early and players being players, my DM-experience is screaming to me, in capital letters, that this class is prone to munchkinism, combined with enough magic items this will become problematic. The fact, that two of the advanced talents lack necessary information does not improve the pdf, either. The ability to become hard cover for allies is cool, but healing them as well feels like not really belonging to the class -healing others is usually the providence of divine characters. In the end, I will settle for a final verdict of 2.5 stars, rounded up to 3 as the class has potential, but could become problematic fast, scaling the AC so high that either the Armiger gets rarely hit and everyone else always, or having the Armiger practically as an unhittable brute. Both are not necessarily viable options in my book.

Endzeitgeist out.


I like it.

****( )

The class is good at defending itself, but it is also great as a bodyguard type class which is how I intend to use it as a DM. I don't like the fact that it gets energy resistances as an extraordinary ability, but I can get past that. I don't think myself or my group will see this as fun class for a PC which is why it gets 4 stars instead of 5. In any event I think it is a job well done, and I don't a little rule breaking in character class creation as long as it is justified, and in this case it is.


You will crave feats like a dragon craves treasure

****( )

I have been meaning to review this one for a while. I like the concept. And I like it for one very big reason. Though the class is primarily defensive, there are lots of ways to make it offensive. Few options in the class will add to any offensive punch, but many of them mesh well with feats and specific equipment.

Hence the title of the review, you will want a billion feats for this class, but because of the design you wont get them all, keeping it balanced. On the flip side the fact that certain abilities synergize well with offensive feats means you are capable of not being the unhittable non-threatening tin can, that ends up being pretty useless in many encounters. (If intelligent enemies are completely unthreatened by a defensive character, his defense is less useful as they will just attack someone else).

I am currently adding a group of 'hoplite' armigger npcs into an encounter to see how some of the polearm and shield synergistic abilities work. I expect it to be different, and interesting to fight against for my party.

Overall, while not my absolute favorite SGG class, I definately think it is a good one and worth picking up if you want a new take on 'the tank' in a party, or as npcs.


It really pains me to do this . . .

**( )( )( )

The Armiger is an interesting class. The concept is a neat one, that being that its a combat class that is all about maximizing defensive capabilities.

The class has a d12 hit dice and a medium BaB . . . it gets talents at various levels, and it has DR whenever the character has armor on, and can do things like granting cover to adjacent foes.

I really, really want to like this class. I like the concept. But I have a hard time with the various, and I mean various, deviations from Pathfinder standard rules.

A lot of times, I know that SGG pushes the boundaries and sees what works. I appreciate that, and sometimes I don't always agree, but I understand and think the experimentation is a good thing.

This class has medium BaB with a d12 hit dice (one deviation)and treats any hit points rolled on their hit dice under a 6 as a 6 (meaning they get a minimum of 6 hp per hit dice no matter what). . . I'm not quite thrilled with those deviations from "Pathfinder RPG Norm". The core conceit of the class is to twist and break the standard rules to attempt to make sure the class always has more hit points than anyone else. That doesn't feel like a strong basis for a class.

Sorry guys . . . I still love you for trying though! Also, I amended a bit of the review as I misinterpreted a rule on my initial run through, and a mistake was corrected in the PDF in the meantime.


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Super Genius Games

And it's live!

Hyrum.
Super Genius Games
"We err on the side of awesome."


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Any similarities to the Iron Heroes class of the same name. I have participated in discussion with the owners of Iron Heroes about converting their stuff to Pathfinders.

Doug

Dark Archive

Interesting and added to the cart.

Dark Archive

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

You would post an interesting class two days after I bought the PDFs I'd built up in my cart. It'll be a few weeks until I can get this one, unfortunately. (The 2 July shipments from Paizo are kinda putting a crimp in my budget.)


Sorry guys. I really like the concept, but this one is just way to wonky to even consider using in my campaigns. Its not broken, as it, it won't work, its just, it feels way too much like its pushing out of the normal rules for classes on too many levels at the same time.

BaB, no Con bonus, and rerolling hit points are just a bit too much altogether to use.

I like your experimentation, even if I don't always agree with it, but this was kind of pushing it a bit for my tastes. I'm probably a bit more negative because I really wanted the full defensive tank to work for me.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

KnightErrantJR wrote:

Sorry guys. I really like the concept, but this one is just way to wonky to even consider using in my campaigns. Its not broken, as it, it won't work, its just, it feels way too much like its pushing out of the normal rules for classes on too many levels at the same time.

BaB, no Con bonus, and rerolling hit points are just a bit too much altogether to use.

I like your experimentation, even if I don't always agree with it, but this was kind of pushing it a bit for my tastes. I'm probably a bit more negative because I really wanted the full defensive tank to work for me.

Obviously we're pleased to receive your feedback, and one of the results of pushing boundaries is sometimes you go too far for some of your customers.

That said:

The armiger gets a Con bonus to hp. We never say anywhere they don't, and classes don't normally mention Con bonus on the hit dice entry.

You don't reroll hit points. You just treat anything less than a 6 as a 6. That still mean more HP, but not a reroll.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

I would have loved to have had this Class a year ago when I made my Azerblood Full Plate/Shield/CON Tank. :)

Had Belt One On sitting in my cart since it released waiting for another .pdf I want to release and I was getting a bit impatiant so this is a godsend. :)

Bought and Bought! :D

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

KnightErrantJR wrote:
no Con bonus, and rerolling hit points are just a bit too much altogether to use.

To clarify:

As a result of a miscue between myself and the editor/development staff, we DO call out that armigers don't get the Con to hp. I didn't intend for one of the things I wrote to say that but that's how the development team took it, so they "clarified" a badly written sentence on my part to make sure we were explicit in what they *thought* I meant.

Which is why I claimed earlier we never said that. I missed the change in the final version. The root of that mistake is mine, and I take responsibility for it. But it's a mistake.

Armgiers add their Constitution modifier to hit dice, just like everyone else. We'll update the pdf ASAP.

Liberty's Edge

Looks interesting, added to my cart :D

Super Genius Games

New version uploaded that fixes the hp error.

Hyrum.
Super Genius Games
"We err on the side of awesome."

Sovereign Court

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

you guys are awesome! I appreciate the integrity and responsiveness -thanks.

The BAB/HD thing in this case doesn't bother me too much because you could look at it as the Barbarian breaks the same rule for the same reason. Full BAB is d10 - if you have d12 you're doing something a bit different.

That said I think that the lower BAB is appropriate to capture the slow but unstoppable feel.

...besides, no one seemed to throw a fit with Rite's Enlightened Scholar's BAB/HD mismatch...


I also like the BAB + d12 and cheer it.

Dark Archive

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DitheringFool wrote:

you guys are awesome! I appreciate the integrity and responsiveness -thanks.

The BAB/HD thing in this case doesn't bother me too much because you could look at it as the Barbarian breaks the same rule for the same reason. Full BAB is d10 - if you have d12 you're doing something a bit different.

That said I think that the lower BAB is appropriate to capture the slow but unstoppable feel.

...besides, no one seemed to throw a fit with Rite's Enlightened Scholar's BAB/HD mismatch...

I always seen the BaB/HD thing more as a rule of thumb instead of a rule. Sometimes I think it needs to be broken.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

Dark_Mistress wrote:
I always seen the BaB/HD thing more as a rule of thumb instead of a rule. Sometimes I think it needs to be broken.

That matches my design philosophy exactly. There is a reason for BAB and HD to match. If you know that reason, you may build a design that causes you to NEED HD and BAB *not* to match. In my opinion, it is thus with the armiger.

Which might have gone over better with the OP who objected if I hadn't also had a confusing sentence, that caused the editorial and development team to decide I meant for armigers to not get Con bonus to hp, so they clarified it for me. It's my job to check such things, and I missed it. Luckily, Hyrum got it fixed.

And playing with how a class rolls hit dice is moving into sacred cow territory. While what I did is not a reroll, it is an oddity. Again, that might have gone over better if the rules hadn't added things I didn't mean for them to.

We'll see if future reviews are kinder to the revised design. :D


Love the concept, confused about some of the mechanics.

1)I'm kinda uncomfortable with the 3/4 BAB. Even you average towm militia (NPC warrior)gets full BAB. I think it would be a tough sell to canvince a player to play a melee character with only 3/4. Did playtesting show The Armiger to be overpowered at Full? If I wanted to give the class full, what would be a good trade? (I'm thinking lose the min HP and drop to 2 skil pts)

2)Despite the descriptive text stating that the class loves the polearm, I don't see it. Since your polearm is reach and your shield is not, well... Am I missing some of the synergy that other posters have mentioned?

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

1 person marked this as a favorite.
IronDesk wrote:
Love the concept, confused about some of the mechanics.

Glad you like the idea, and feedback and questions are always welcome!

IronDesk wrote:
1)I'm kinda uncomfortable with the 3/4 BAB. Even you average towm militia (NPC warrior)gets full BAB. I think it would be a tough sell to canvince a player to play a melee character with only 3/4. Did playtesting show The Armiger to be overpowered at Full? If I wanted to give the class full, what would be a good trade? (I'm thinking lose the min HP and drop to 2 skil pts)

While it's true a typical warrior gets 1/1 BAB, and armiger is an expert in something else... armor. And if you put an average armiger up against any warrior of the same level in a fair fight, the armiger will wipe the walls with the warrior.

Removing max hit points and 2 skill points won't balance the armiger. It boosts his offense by tons, and does very little to weaken his defense. Youa t minimum need to take him down to d10 hit points, and disallow crossbow brace, picket, slam, spear brace, and unkillable talents. Many of those add to an armgier's offense in specific situations, and slapping that on top of a full BAB is way too much.

IronDesk wrote:
2)Despite the descriptive text stating that the class loves the polearm, I don't see it. Since your polearm is reach and your shield is not, well... Am I missing some of the synergy that other posters have mentioned?

A few points.

One, you can build a great armiger with no shield. I've seen it done.

Two, you can built a great armiger who fights with a reach weapon, and shield bashes anyone who gets in too close. that can be a very effective build.

Three, look at spear brace. With that talent, an armiger can use, at the same time, a 2-handed pole armor and a shield, getting full valuye for both. And it adds bonuses to attack with the spear. A 6th level warrior has a +6 BAB. A 6th level armiger with spear brace only has a +4, but gets +2 to hit with his spear. That's the same attack bonus. The armiger doesn't get two attacks with a full attack action, but getting full benefit of a two-handed weaopn and a shield more than make up for that.

Now imagine you gave the armiger a full BAB. With shield brace at 6th level, he'd get two attacks, a +6BAB, and another +2 to hit a fighter can't duplicate, all while using two-handed weapon and shield at the same time. He'd be a monster, and fighters would be nearly obsolete.


Thanks for the response. Okay you've convinced me on the BAB. The shield +reach weapon ( w/ spear brace) is the build I'm most intrigued with. I guess what I'm struggling with is feat selection - If I invest in the TWF tree, I'll rarely be able to use it fully, as my opponent will only ever be in range of either the polearm or the shield. If I just grab the shield feats, I'll be taking taking whopping TWF penalties if I try to bash.

What feats would you suggest for the above mentioned 6th lvl Armiger?


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
IronDesk wrote:

Thanks for the response. Okay you've convinced me on the BAB. The shield +reach weapon ( w/ spear brace) is the build I'm most intrigued with. I guess what I'm struggling with is feat selection - If I invest in the TWF tree, I'll rarely be able to use it fully, as my opponent will only ever be in range of either the polearm or the shield. If I just grab the shield feats, I'll be taking taking whopping TWF penalties if I try to bash.

What feats would you suggest for the above mentioned 6th lvl Armiger?

I mentioned something similar to owen a while back in a different thread. He said armigers were meant to crave feats like a dragon craves treasure. And i believe it. Its part of what keeps the class balanced i think.

That aside i wouldnt recommend the twf tree, you are already at medium bab with no obvious bonuses to hit. I think especially if you are using a reach weapon you are better off focusing on that. In addition i recommend getting improved shield bash as well, just so you also threaten adjacent targets.


Now this is an interesting class concept. I saw the Armiger in Iron Heroes as well and always liked the concept, if not the way the classes were designed in IH, per se.

I'll be checking this out.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

I guess Armor Training doesn't affect shields.


Chris Ballard wrote:
I guess Armor Training doesn't affect shields.

As written, correct. I don't think a separate talent, called Shield Training, that did the same thing for shields would break anything but it's not part of armor training.


In the PDF i got here the Crossbow Brace talent ends with "Additionally," which to me seems pretty wierd.

Might just be me that missed somehting.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

TunFiskeMad wrote:

In the PDF i got here the Crossbow Brace talent ends with "Additionally," which to me seems pretty wierd.

Might just be me that missed somehting.

That's halfway between a cut-and-paste error, and a revised sentence that didn't get properly edited.

Originally, I cut-and-paste crossbow brace from spear brace and ended at "Additionally" because I was going to talk about being able to reload your crossbow in that section, instead of talking about using a pole arm 1-handed as in the spear brace talent. But then I changed how I was presenting the information, and just added reload to the opening list of things you could do. Sadly, I forgot to cut the dangling Additionally.

Your talent is complete without any additional information. Sorry about the spare word.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Hmm, one of these guys with a level of fighter becoming a Hellknight.


Chris Ballard wrote:
Hmm, one of these guys with a level of fighter becoming a Hellknight.

That's a solid idea! I have a player running an armiger and headed for stalwart defender. It'll take him a while to get there (11th, still 4 levels off), but he figures he'll end up being armiger 10/stalwart defener 10, and that looks like a solid build.

Which means at 15th level (not an immediate concern!) I'm going to have to decide if adamantine armor, armored DR, and the SD's damage reduction all stack. I'm pretty sure the RAW answer is no, but I suspect I'll decide yes.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
Which means at 15th level (not an immediate concern!) I'm going to have to decide if adamantine armor, armored DR, and the SD's damage reduction all stack. I'm pretty sure the RAW answer is no, but I suspect I'll decide yes.

I'd agree your reading of RAW seems accurate. If the idea of a character with nonmagic DR 12/-- doesn't worry you, I also see no problem with your proposed house rule.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Any chance that the quick strap ability stacks with the willing armor ability from the weapons and armor product?


Chris Ballard wrote:
Any chance that the quick strap ability stacks with the willing armor ability from the weapons and armor product?

RAW, I see no reason why it wouldn't.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I'm not sure if I missed an updated version of this file, but out of curiosity what is hard cover? I can find no mention of it in the pathfinder combat rules. Any clarification would be appreciated.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

Robert Jordan wrote:
I'm not sure if I missed an updated version of this file, but out of curiosity what is hard cover? I can find no mention of it in the pathfinder combat rules. Any clarification would be appreciated.

As opposed to soft cover, which is defined. I got tired of noting soft cover vs not-soft-cover,, so I just started using the real-world term of hard cover. I apologize for any confusion.


The Genius Guide to the Armiger adds several new feats. Are these feats (Armored Hustle, Exotic Shield Proficiency, Shield Block, Shield Check, and Shield Counter) all General Feats or are some or all of them Combat Feats?


Caedwyr wrote:
The Genius Guide to the Armiger adds several new feats. Are these feats (Armored Hustle, Exotic Shield Proficiency, Shield Block, Shield Check, and Shield Counter) all General Feats or are some or all of them Combat Feats?

Good question! Realistically, they should all be considered Combat feats.


Thanks for the quick response.


Reviewed here and sent to Gms magazine. Cheers!

Dark Archive

Interesting review End.


For general interest and feedback purposes, I've quoted a number of the comments on this class over at d20pfsrd.com

1 wrote:
"It’s a combat-centered design that only has a second-rate base attack bonus progression, and a support character that can’t give many bonuses to his allies." That makes it the worst class ever, then.
2 wrote:
so, all i get do do is stand there and get hit? i think this class would work better with more talents, more talents to choose from, some kind of class ability giving bonuses to grappling and using armor spikes(armor specialist using his defense for attack), and/or abilities tied to spiked gauntlets. I would also change Shield Saint to Armored Saint or Armor Master.
3 wrote:
This class can be interesting for a NPC or a cohort for exactly the reasons given. For a PC, though? This class is basically two levels long. Sacrifice 1 BAB, get Bulwark, Reflect, some hit points and a good will save. After that, you have better things to do with your levels.
4 wrote:
A tank style class...Not bad! Personally I view it as a more defense based fighter and that just great cause a good party needs a good tank!
5 wrote:
I personally think that they should get some bonus feats outside of talents, not a whole lot like three or four just to help balance it out in my opinion. The main thing that this class has is it's 'Juggernaut' capability of get out of my way and laughing as the people who try to drop it's HP.
6 wrote:
Sounds pretty good. I think every wizard should have one.
7 wrote:
As the class says, "Such roles are not everyone’s cup of tea, but they are common in both fantasy literature and many gaming groups." If people don't like playing a fully-dedicated tank with almost no offense, that's fine. Personally, I think this is a fantastic class as an alternative to barbarians and fighters, and it finally makes a Dwarven Defender-like character available to non-dwarves.
8 wrote:
Most of the abilities are based on con, but some are based on wisdom. is this intentional?
9 wrote:
FINALLY A TANK CLASS! and not bad for a first stab I must say however a few things could be improved the very fact that while a support character they will have a high combat element full fast progression BAB would not be a bad idea especially since they really don't get alot from the class itself and this class dose seem a bit underpowered (in comparison to pathfinder as to 3.5 because I've noticed alot of 3rd party publisher really have not been taking into account that pathfinder is considerably beefed up from 3.5 and still seem to be writing as if it were 3.5) that being said they should probably get a higher AC progression similar to monks but will only benefit if the Armiger is wearing medium orr heavier armor because while having high DR dose make sense there ability to avoid being but only when the hit altogether is just as quintessential to a Tank as being able to soak dmg. also uncanny dodge and improved uncanny dodge at higher levels would take the fact that tank characters are usually resistant to rogue and assassin like attacks (namely of course is sneak attack) also while a Tank dose not move around as much as other character types in battle perhaps they would at some mid level gain something similar to the Dwarven ability to move around in any armor without encumbered movement would highlight the Armiger's great experience with armor. Just some things I thought to mention cause I was actually building a Tank class for house use recently
10 wrote:
I've seen a few comments about them being useless...after using it in a new campaign I would completely disagree. The only reason our main cleric is alive is because of this class. A normal fighter does not allow for this kind of support and protection. Honestly it is my favorite class despite it's LOWER offensive capability.


Do you lose the shield bonus to AC when fighting with Spear Brace? It seems counter to the idea of the talent, but it would mirror buckler fighting.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

No you do not.

This is the main reason those talents are limited to weapons not normally maximized by the rules -- because there's no down side once you take them.


That's what I figured, but wanted to be 100%. Thanks!

Liberty's Edge

Is there any chance that this class is going to get the Hero Lab add-on? I'd happily pay for this all over again for that.

Sovereign Court

I ask the same as J-Bone. Would yo0u please put it on hero lab? O really like the look of this class. I saw it on the d20pfsrd and thin it fits really well with a tank role I will be needing to take in my party. However I use hero lab to build my chars and have absolutely no idea how to program new classes into them (After many failed attempts I assure you). Would you perhaps be willing to provide a .user file when the pdf is purchased?


I believe someone is working on it...but I can't remember who. Realmwalker maybe?

Sovereign Court

Hmmm. Is there a link you could post so I could read up on that info?


Actually, I spoke without giving enough information.

What I spoke of is nothing official, and I don't remember where I read it.

I do recall hearing whispers of SGG really wanting all their stuff to be herolab compatible, and that there were "talks" going on.

Unfortunately, I don't know where I read that either =/ Both might be in this thread somewhere?


I've seen rumblings going on from time to time about HeroLab files for SGG products, would thrill me, as I'm getting tired of entering them by hand, lol.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

S9o far one SGG class comes with HL files, and that's the revised dragonrider. We are working to expand that number, and I hope to have some exciting news soon... but "hope" and "soon" is the best I can say for now.

That said, i can certainly move armiger up on the list for the HL treatment, right after another the revised class that is currently being worked on.

Sovereign Court

Well thats good news to all of us who love the pathfinder play style. I'm sure everyone agrees that you are taking our opinion's seriously and responding.Seeing the care you take with your customers has convinced me! I am buying this product! Nothing sells like a creator who cares :).


What did your players come up with as ways to move faster with this class? One of my players is looking for options in that realm.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

Well I had a lot of dwarf armigers with boots of springing and striding in the playtest...

Liberty's Edge

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

S9o far one SGG class comes with HL files, and that's the revised dragonrider. We are working to expand that number, and I hope to have some exciting news soon... but "hope" and "soon" is the best I can say for now.

That said, i can certainly move armiger up on the list for the HL treatment, right after another the revised class that is currently being worked on.

Thats great news! I'll keep watching. Keep up the good work SGG.

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