The Genius Guide to the Godling (PFRPG) PDF

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The godling is a new character concept designed for use with the Pathfinder RPG. The godling is presented as both a base class (suitable for 1st level characters) and a prestige class (requiring characters to be higher level before taking it).

The godling is a mortal hero in whose veins flows the blood of a god. Cut from the same cloth as classic ancient heroes such as Theseus (fathered by both a mortal father, Aegeus, and a divine father, Poseidon), Memnon (son of a half-nymph mortal father and the titan/goddess Eos), and Helen (the famous beauty who was the daughter of Zeus), most godlings are the offspring of a god and a mortal humanoid who drew the god’s eye. Godlings are not demigods—at least not yet—for their birth on the material plane prevents them from being classified as outsiders. Initially bound to the dust and earth of their birthplace, godlings are nonetheless more than mere mortals. They have inherited divine powers that, with time and experience, grow and allow godlings to rise and become powerful and famous heroes. (Of course there are many other possible origins of godlings—see Godlings in Your Campaign at the end of the product.)

Godlings are blessed (or cursed) with lives of adventure. They are thrust into dangerous quests and major events at a young age and often spend their entire adult lives moving from crisis to crisis, sought out by those who need their help, and hunted by those who wish them harm for no reason other than to spite their godly parents. Many godlings are made aware of their inherent power early in life, and are taught to respect both its origins and the responsibility it conveys. Others have no idea why they are able to perform feats that other mortals cannot, and may think themselves to be freaks or monsters (or some odd kind of sorcerer).

Godling Base Class
The godling base class is for characters that begin play with their deific heritage a known and active part of their lives. These characters know they are scions of the gods and are out to prove themselves worthy heirs by engaging in adventures in the mortal world. The godling base class actually contains two subclasses—clever and mighty godlings. These options are treated as different iterations of the same class, so a character cannot multiclass as two different kinds of godling.

Godling Prestige Class
Not all godlings realize who and want they are at the beginning of their adventuring careers. Indeed, some receive no special powers until their divine parents acknowledge their relationship. The godling prestige class is presented as a way to allow characters to undergo a deific metamorphosis later in their lives.

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With the power of a god!

*****

There are a lot of interesting ideas in this book. I was a bit disappointed that there were no rules for spellcasters (but I knew there was a Mystic Godling book, so not too disappointed). The two base class types of Godling presented here are Mighty and Clever. They are approximately equivalent to Fighter and Rogue.

I felt that the prestige class was a bit lacking and seemed almost like an afterthought. It could work for a character that does not manifest their potential until later in their adventuring carreer, but provides very little to recommend it over just taking one of the base classes instead.

I would give this one 4.5 stars if that was an option. Rounded up 5 stars.


Cool base-classes with rather bland PrC attached

****( )

This pdf is 11 pages long, 2/3 of a page front cover, 1 page editorial and SRD, leaving 9 1/3 pages of content, so let’s take a look at the Godlings!

Wait, Godlings? Plural? Yep, two Godling-base-classes are presented (though you can’t multiclass from one to the other) and a PrC-option is also included.
What are Godlings? Well, they are like e.g. Theseus, people with the blood of divinities, who, by trial (i.e. adventuring) might one day rise to the exalted level of demi-gods.
The first one is the Mighty Godling, who gets d12, 2+Int skills, good BAB and good fort and ref-saves.

The Clever Godling gets d8, 6+Int skills, ¾ BAB and good ref and will saves.
Both use the same mechanics: At first level, a Lineage is determined, i.e. the ability to use domain powers (but not domains) associated with his heritage. To further customize the godling, two major ways are offered. The first one you probably came to expect, namely talents. The Godling gets access to so-called Scion Talents (13 are presented) and Greater Scion Talents (of which we get 5) that range from rather mundane evasion to gaining minor DR, trapfinding, spotting invisible foes to the extremely neat “counter power”, which lets Godlngs counter supernatural attacks, either via CMB or Knowledge, calling to mind some of the heroic feats attributed to our legends. I would have loved to see a bit more such scion talents that go beyond e.g. “gets sneak attack” and rather offer such original abilities.

The second mechanic to customize your Godling is the divine trait system, in which the godlings get progressively larger amounts f divine trait points and can save and invest them permanently into 7 ability-trees, each of which features 4 ranks. The Trophy Taker is a cool, imaginative example for the coolness of the mechanic: Practitioners can carry around trophies and make them duplicate magic items in function without blocking one of her item slots and even enhance her own magic equipment. Higher ranks let a Godling duplicate the effects of more expensive magic items with her trophies. Nice! The divine traits, all said and done, are at least in my opinion, well-crafted. If one were nitpicky, one could call e.g. “Hardy”, which eliminates food, drink, poison etc. from the potential threats of the Godling, rather bland, but I consider it iconic enough to like it.

The capstone ability sees your ascension to demigod-status and while sufficiently powerful, is still playable – now is that cool?

The PrC-Godling gets d10, 4+Int skills, a good BAB, medium fort and ref saves and cannot choose freely from said divine traits, but is limited to a linear progression in one divine trait, thus severely limiting the appeal of the PrC – all in all, it feels like a bonus and a rather bad option when compared to the base-classes.
The pdf closes with advice on how to use Godlings in your campaign and a feat to enhance the lineage ability for multiclassed Godlings.

Conclusion:
Editing and formatting are top-notch, I didn’t notice any glitches. Layout adheres to the three-column standard and the full color artwork is ok. The pdf has no bookmarks. The guide to the Godling offers us a cool and fresh take on the idea of people with divine blood coursing through their veins. Mechanically, I don’t have anything to complain about, apart from the rather lackluster-feeling PrC – I think most characters might be better off by multiclassing into one of the base-classes presented herein – they’re at least in for a more versatile experience. The crunch, as I’ve come to expect from most SGG-books, is quite cool, although I would have liked to see more Godling-style Scion-talents instead of just “I can use X, too!” –counter power being a prime example of both style and substance. Due to the slightly too many abilities from other classes and the, at least in my opinion, rather bland PrC, I’ll settle for a final verdict of 4.5 stars, rounded down to 4 for the purpose of this platform.

Endzeitgeist out.


WOW!!!!!

*****

This is hands down the best non-paizo supplement thing I have read. This is a really great, highly adaptable, class that looks really nice. With plenty of options for the kind of Godling you want to be. Between the option of 2 base classes and a prestige class version of godling for already existing characters of all classes this is all around awesome.

This is well written, heavily thought out, and doesn't appear crazy, weird or overpowered.


Wow.. just wow.

*****

Long Reveiw:
First off let me say this class was not what I expected at all. I went in expecting some flashy new features that mimic the other class', and was pleasantly surprised to find myself wrong. The Godling is a strong, balanced class that brings something new to the table. With all the different Domains, divine traits, bonus feats, and scion talents to choose from, you are pretty much guaranteed to never see two Godlings exactly the same.

The Lineage Domains are nice, but I think certain Domains may get selected more often than others, especially since you need a Scion Talent to cast spells from Domains. Destruction and the Elemental Domains come to mind, as well as the Weather Domain. But that just might be my way of thinking.

When it comes to Divine Traits, I have to say that I like Seaborn and Trophy Taker the most. All of them are well written(though it did take me a few moments to understand how Trophy Taker worked). I think you got most of the traits/abilities the demigods Greek myth had when you went with this route.

Scion Traits are interesting, and help keep the “half-mortal” aspect of the Godling evident. The Greater Scion Traits balance the “half-mortal” aspect with the “half-divine” parentage. Good abilities in both features.

The Demigod capstone is very interesting. It's not like any of the other capstone abilities, so it's unique in what it gives you. Giving any character a cult to look forward to is going to be hard to handle, but limiting them by level using the Leadership feat guidelines is a great idea. The spell-like abilities and becoming harder to kill are icing on the cake. A neat capstone well worth the wait.

Overall, I really like this class, and look forward to play-testing it eventually.


". . .in apprehension, how like a God. . ." Will Shakespeare

*****

I recently finished looking over this book, and I can tell you know, it will not be the last Genius Guide I purchase.

The idea is something I was working on for my home campaign and couldn't figure out how to do it. . .thank you OtherWorld Creations. This was just what I was looking for.

The entire product gives me something I can use, but the part I enjoyed the most was the ideas I got from the "Godlings in Your Campaign" section. Can't recommend enough!


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Ok, I really liked this product, but I feel the Clever Godling didn't get much love.

First, the Mighty Godling has two sets of Divine Traits only he can take, whereas the Clever has just Scholar, which is OK, but could have been better.

Second, a lot of the Scion Talents are just Rogue class features. Between Domain Lineage, a lot of Scion Talents for both versions, and the Divine Power Trait set, the Godling has far too many borrowed class features and not nearly enough new and different abilities.

Even some of the Mighty abilities could have been better. While they are good, none really bring to might the true physical might that the legendary heroes the class was based on have.

Don't get me wrong, I REALLY like the concept, but I'm hoping some of these problems I raised will be fixed come any sequels that come out.


so im playing a mighty godling using trophy taker and idk if maybe im not getting it but maybe someone can help me clarify this.

Trophy Taker I (Su): Then godling can remove
trophies from foes he has defeated, and gain
magic benefits when wearing or carrying them.
The godling may make anything taken from a
defeated foe a trophy, as long as it weighs at
least 5 lbs. and is visible when worn or carried
normally. When the godling is wearing or
carrying his trophies, he gains benefits as if he
had one additional magic item. These benefits
do not take actual magic item slots, and may
duplicate the effects of a suit of magic armor
or a magic weapon (in which case they are
added to any armor worn or weapon used by
the godling). The duplicated magic items must
be items the godling could use, and cannot
have charges. Normal stacking rules apply to
bonuses gained by trophies. The total value of
the magic items the godling’s trophies duplicate
cannot exceed 1,000 gp.

when i reach trophy taker IV my spending limit is 64,000 GP

now the stacking rules are what im confused about. Am i suppose to treat my trophy separate from my actual weapon/shield/armor correct? example is i have a +1 keen rapier but because its already keen and +1 so does my trophy cost more like a higher bonus price?

Also is i have multiple trophies (since i do)should they stack with each other or should i treat them all like separate items with their own stacks? some clarification would be greatly appreciated =)

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

Mufasaa wrote:
so im playing a mighty godling using trophy taker and idk if maybe im not getting it but maybe someone can help me clarify this.

The stacking rule refers to bonuses of the same type. For example, if you decide your trophy power is a +2 keen weapon, and you pick up a +3 flaming weapon, it acts like a +3 keen flaming weapon. The +2 and +3 enhancement bonuses do not stack.


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Mufasaa wrote:
so im playing a mighty godling using trophy taker and idk if maybe im not getting it but maybe someone can help me clarify this.
The stacking rule refers to bonuses of the same type. For example, if you decide your trophy power is a +2 keen weapon, and you pick up a +3 flaming weapon, it acts like a +3 keen flaming weapon. The +2 and +3 enhancement bonuses do not stack.

ok thanks for that but the only thing i don't get are they only suppose to have one trophy?

an example of what I'm having difficulty with:

3 trophies

bear pelt (on back) - giant-bane
large croc tooth (on shield) - vicious
goblin hand (around neck) - holy

should they stack together when applying the effects (money wise) so all together they count as a +4 weapon or they count separately as two +1s and one +2 weapon?

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

Mufasaa wrote:

3 trophies

bear pelt (on back) - giant-bane
large croc tooth (on shield) - vicious
goblin hand (around neck) - holy

should they stack together when applying the effects (money wise) so all together they count as a +4 weapon or they count separately as two +1s and one +2 weapon?

Yes, when pricing your trophy abilities that all apply to one weapon, price them as one weapon. So in the example above, price as a +4 bonus.

Now if a godling wanted to have a goblin hand that gave holy to to a primary weapon, and a bear pelt that gave giant bane to a secondary weapon, you would price those as two different bonuses, but then they could never add to the same weapon at the same time.


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Mufasaa wrote:

3 trophies

bear pelt (on back) - giant-bane
large croc tooth (on shield) - vicious
goblin hand (around neck) - holy

should they stack together when applying the effects (money wise) so all together they count as a +4 weapon or they count separately as two +1s and one +2 weapon?

Yes, when pricing your trophy abilities that all apply to one weapon, price them as one weapon. So in the example above, price as a +4 bonus.

Now if a godling wanted to have a goblin hand that gave holy to to a primary weapon, and a bear pelt that gave giant bane to a secondary weapon, you would price those as two different bonuses, but then they could never add to the same weapon at the same time.

ahhh! ok that makes sense! thank you for clearing that up for me =)

Grand Lodge

Got a question on the godling's lineage domain. It says that they get one at 1st, 8th, and 16th, and that they gain the powers, but not the spells.

So, does this mean that they gain powers at 1st and 8th for the first domain, 8th and 16th for the second, and 16th and 24th for the third? Is this correct?

RAW it says "powers", not just "power".

Grand Lodge

I guess no one visits this anymore. Was hoping for someone to answer.

Contributor

kevin_video wrote:
I guess no one visits this anymore. Was hoping for someone to answer.

Sorry, Kevin ... just missed that this question had been posted. We'll put our heads together and get you a ruling in the next day or so.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

kevin_video wrote:

Got a question on the godling's lineage domain. It says that they get one at 1st, 8th, and 16th, and that they gain the powers, but not the spells.

So, does this mean that they gain powers at 1st and 8th for the first domain, 8th and 16th for the second, and 16th and 24th for the third? Is this correct?

Actually, no that's not what we mean.

Once a godling has a domain, they gain all the powers that domain gives a character of the godling's level. So when determining what domain powers a godling has, first look at what domains he has selected (regardless of what level the godling was when he selected them). Then, give the godling all the powers a cleric of the same level as the godling would have from the domain.

So when a godling selects a domain at 8th level, they get all the powers the domain offers 8th level characters. When a godling selects a domain at 16th level, they immediately gain all the powers the domain grants characters of 16th level.

Does that answer your question?

Grand Lodge

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Does that answer your question?

Actually it just makes it more confusing. There are no powers at 16th level for a domain. You're done at 8th level. That is, unless new domains have come out that don't peak at 8th. Need a better example for explanation.

Say the person took Weather at 1st, War at 2nd, and Community at 16th. Now my understanding of it was you'd Storm Burst at 1st, Lightning Lord and Battle Rage at 8th, Weapon Master and Calming Touch at 16th, and Unity would be eight levels later, maybe. What I'm hearing though is that at 1st you get Storm Burst, at 8th you get Lighting Lord and Battle Rage AND Weapon Master, and at 16th you get Calming Touch and Unity. Either way, it seems a little unbalanced because you're always getting at least two powers, except at 1st level.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

kevin_video wrote:
Either way, it seems a little unbalanced because you're always getting at least two powers, except at 1st level.

When you gain a new domain at higher levels as a godling, yes, you gain multiple powers. All the powers of the domain granted to characters of your level. At the higher levels, that may well be all the domains powers. However, even getting all the powers from multiple domains showed no sign of being unbalancing in playtest.

Grand Lodge

So you actually do get three domain powers at 8th level from the first and second domain? Wow. Good to know.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Yeah, so a Godling kinda becomes a little Power Monster as they get higher in level. After really looking into this I think the idea of using Sorcerer Bloodlines as substitute Domains is powerful then just using regular domains.

I also have to say, I'm looking over the Animal and Terrain Domains, and the Inquisitions from the Ultimate Magic book. Wow... Those really do add a little more variety to what a Godling can do. I'm curious to see if the Ultimate Combat is going to have any new domains in that book as well.

I really am enjoying the Godlings books. They're making some great NPCs. My "Gilgamesh" based God-King so far is pretty fun. Debating to on what my next major NPC Godling is going to be.

Grand Lodge

New question about the Godling and Mystic Godling.

The Hardy I divine trait makes it so that you do not require food to survive, but still need water. Hardy II makes it so you don't need food or water. Hardy III gives you a +4 bonus to all saving throws involving diseases and poisons. Hardy VI makes you immune to them.

Let's compare to Paramortal I. It's the equivalent of Hardy II, and you also age slower. Okay, so the benefit is what? That if you take Seaborn II you can breathe underwater and drink sea water safely? Could it not be argued that Paramortal would gain you the same benefit? Seems fair that it could. I'd be willing to make someone wait until Paramortal II, if needed. Or allow someone to take Hardy III if you have Paramortal II.

Just seems rather repetitive and wasteful that two divine traits give you the exact same ability for the first level or two, but don't end up with the same end result so you have to pay double.

That's like having to take Endurance twice in order to get Diehard.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
kevin_video wrote:

New question about the Godling and Mystic Godling.

The Hardy I divine trait makes it so that you do not require food to survive, but still need water. Hardy II makes it so you don't need food or water. Hardy III gives you a +4 bonus to all saving throws involving diseases and poisons. Hardy VI makes you immune to them.

Let's compare to Paramortal I. It's the equivalent of Hardy II, and you also age slower. Okay, so the benefit is what? That if you take Seaborn II you can breathe underwater and drink sea water safely? Could it not be argued that Paramortal would gain you the same benefit? Seems fair that it could. I'd be willing to make someone wait until Paramortal II, if needed. Or allow someone to take Hardy III if you have Paramortal II.

Just seems rather repetitive and wasteful that two divine traits give you the exact same ability for the first level or two, but don't end up with the same end result so you have to pay double.

That's like having to take Endurance twice in order to get Diehard.

I've noticed that, as well. I'm not fully sure how the two interact, either. I kind of think that the Paramortal "tree" is kind of an improved version of the Hardy "tree". If it were up to me, I'd tell a player to choose one or the other, but not both.

That or I would limit Paramortal to Mystic Godlings, and Hardy to Mighty and Cunning. I would explain this gamewise as the Paramortal is a version of "Hardy" that is enhanced by the Mystic Godling's innate tie to magic.

Honestly, though, in my opinion, I'd always go with the Paramortal over Hardy. The NPCs that I've built normally go with Paramortal. I've never tried to combine the two, and I think it might give me a headache to try. LOL

Grand Lodge

I agree with the idea of houseruling it as just being a better version, minus the immunity to disease and poison. I mean, there are cheap items that do both anyways so it doesn't actually matter. I too would never take Hardy over Paramortal. The argument that Mystic Godlings could get it over regular Godlings is just unfair though. I mean, why can spellcasting godlings live forever, but a melee type has to die at the same age as a regular human. Doesn't seem right.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

kevin_video wrote:

Just seems rather repetitive and wasteful that two divine traits give you the exact same ability for the first level or two, but don't end up with the same end result so you have to pay double.

That's like having to take Endurance twice in order to get Diehard.

Hardy and Paramortal are designed to do different things, and to appeal to different character types. It is, I confess, an unfortunate design choice to have Paramortal I be strictly superior to Hardy I, and I'll take a look at that in the inevitable eventual update.

Hardy IV is a nice pay-offs (there really aren't that many options to be *immune* to disease and poison), but the cost of 4 trait ranks is too cheap if you haven't had to buy Hardy I-III. Hardy and Seaborn play off each other because the end result seemed cool. At the same time by the writing of Mystic Godlings there was a strong call for more out-of-combat godlike abilities, and more extensive feedback showed reductions of food, water, and aging requirements weren't unbalancing.

The feat comparison isn't quite right, because of relative costs. Getting Paramortal IV takes 4 trait points, with which you could also buy Hard I and II and Seaborn I.

So obviously if you're looking for food/water requirements, you take paramortal. If you want to add the benefit of having Hardy II with Searborn II, the thing to do is charge a single extra trait point for Seaborn II to also breath underwater. (Otherwise the benefit a Hardy mighty godling gets for heading toward immunity to disease and poison is nullified, and Paramortal becomes way too powerful).

I suspect in the update, I'll end up getting rid of the rank i-IV idea for traits, and just price each benefit separately, which may mean Hardy and paramortal end up starting as the same thing, with different additional trait costs available for different kinds of godlings.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

...I'll take a look at that in the inevitable eventual update...

I suspect in the update, I'll end up getting rid of the rank i-IV idea for traits, and just price each benefit separately, which may mean Hardy and paramortal end up starting as the same thing, with different additional trait costs available for different kinds of godlings.

So... wait... does this mean that an update is official? That there's going to be an update for this book? Is there also going to be an update for the Mystic one as well? I am just giddy with the possibility!

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

1 person marked this as a favorite.
ShepherdGunn wrote:
So... wait... does this mean that an update is official? That there's going to be an update for this book? Is there also going to be an update for the Mystic one as well? I am just giddy with the possibility!

They're on the list for right after the GGT Magus, which needs to be renamed the Magister. I doubt I'll get to them until after Gen Con... in fact I'm certain I won't, but yes updates are definitely happening, and everyone who has bought a copy gets the updated versions automatically.

So if you want a chance to tell me I need to fix something in the update, you'd better buy these PDFs and reply here soon!

I want updates just before I put out the Godling Options: Traits and Ascendencies book...


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
ShepherdGunn wrote:
So... wait... does this mean that an update is official? That there's going to be an update for this book? Is there also going to be an update for the Mystic one as well? I am just giddy with the possibility!

They're on the list for right after the GGT Magus, which needs to be renamed the Magister. I doubt I'll get to them until after Gen Con... in fact I'm certain I won't, but yes updates are definitely happening, and everyone who has bought a copy gets the updated versions automatically.

So if you want a chance to tell me I need to fix something in the update, you'd better buy these PDFs and reply here soon!

I want updates just before I put out the Godling Options: Traits and Ascendencies book...

Godling Options Book YES PLEASE!


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well, maybe if the updated Godling books come out and the Traits and Ascendance are put out before hand, and I can talk my wife into in, I would love to go to GenCon next year and run a Pathfinder game using the Godling book for the main villain. I already own both the Godling books, now just to get the updates when they're released and buy the Options book. Mwahahah!

Grand Lodge

ShepherdGunn wrote:
Well, maybe if the updated Godling books come out and the Traits and Ascendance are put out before hand, and I can talk my wife into in, I would love to go to GenCon next year and run a Pathfinder game using the Godling book for the main villain. I already own both the Godling books, now just to get the updates when they're released and buy the Options book. Mwahahah!

That's basically going to be the same boat that I'll be sitting in.


ShepherdGunn wrote:
Well, maybe if the updated Godling books come out and the Traits and Ascendance are put out before hand, and I can talk my wife into in, I would love to go to GenCon next year and run a Pathfinder game using the Godling book for the main villain. I already own both the Godling books, now just to get the updates when they're released and buy the Options book. Mwahahah!

One of my players is playing an Undine Adept Godling in our Carrion Crown Campaign.

Grand Lodge

Just want confirmation as to how I should be reading the feat Emergent Divinity. It says that when you first take it, you get 1 divine rank. In the special part it says that every time you take it, you gain 1 additional rank. Does this mean if you took it four times you get 1 rank, 2 ranks, 3 ranks, and then 4? There was a feat in 3.5 that gave you something like that for Factotums. It increased by +1 each time you took it, up to your Int modifier.

If this wasn't the case initially, you could change it to that, and have it limited to the PC's CON mod for mighty godlings, and other ability modifiers based on what godling took it.


A question for Owen: If you had the pagespace, would you stat out the Clever and Mighty godlings as two separate classes (with a note that if you take levels in one you can't take levels in the other) or would you still present them in the squished together format used in The Genius Guide to the Godling?


A possible balance/errata issue was posted on another site

Quote:

I think there might be some flaws with the design of Divine Power. If a Human were to only take Emergent divinity as a feat over and over, you could

Cast lvl 3 spells (2 lvl 1, 1 lvl 3) @ character lvl 2
Cast lvl 5 spells (3 lvl 1, 2 lvl 3, 1 lvl 5)@ character lvl 5
Cast lvl 7 spells (3 lvl 1, 3 lvl 2, 2 lvl 5, 1 lvl 7)@ character lvl 9

while having FULL BAB and d12

Just to clarify, this would be taking Emergent Divinity both as racial, level and bonus feat and only taking Divine Power as the only power whenever you have enough points to purchase the next rank (which in my opinion does not ever put the character at risk of being underpowered for hoarding those ranks).

(Source: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/s/mighty-godling)

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

Caedwyr wrote:
A question for Owen: If you had the pagespace, would you stat out the Clever and Mighty godlings as two separate classes (with a note that if you take levels in one you can't take levels in the other) or would you still present them in the squished together format used in The Genius Guide to the Godling?

That's a question I haven't settled on an answer yet, and it's becoming more pressing. Let me say I see advantages both ways.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

Caedwyr wrote:
A possible balance/errata issue was posted on another site.

Interesting. I haven't done the math, but that's possible. The clear solution is to limit Emergent divinity to once per three character levels, as has been done with some class feats in recent Paizo books.


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Caedwyr wrote:
A possible balance/errata issue was posted on another site.
Interesting. I haven't done the math, but that's possible. The clear solution is to limit Emergent divinity to once per three character levels, as has been done with some class feats in recent Paizo books.

Are you happy enough with this solution to call it errata, or do you want to think about it a bit more before calling it done?


*poke*


Reviewed here and sent to GMS magazine. Cheers!

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

Caedwyr wrote:
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Caedwyr wrote:
A possible balance/errata issue was posted on another site.
Interesting. I haven't done the math, but that's possible. The clear solution is to limit Emergent divinity to once per three character levels, as has been done with some class feats in recent Paizo books.
Are you happy enough with this solution to call it errata, or do you want to think about it a bit more before calling it done?

Sorry, I missed the question.

Yes, at this point I'm happy to call it genius-official errata.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

Endzeitgeist wrote:
Reviewed here and sent to GMS magazine. Cheers!

Many thanks!


Hello, I posted this on the comments section of the PFSRD, but didn't get an answer:

I think there might be some flaws with the design of Divine Power. If a Human were to only take Emergent divinity as a feat over and over, you could

Cast lvl 3 spells (2 lvl 1, 1 lvl 3) @ character lvl 2
Cast lvl 5 spells (3 lvl 1, 2 lvl 3, 1 lvl 5)@ character lvl 5
Cast lvl 7 spells (3 lvl 1, 3 lvl 2, 2 lvl 5, 1 lvl 7)@ character lvl 9

while having FULL BAB and d12

Just to clarify, this would be taking Emergent Divinity both as racial, level and bonus feat and only taking Divine Power as the only power whenever you have enough points to purchase the next rank (which in my opinion does not ever put the character at risk of being underpowered for hoarding those ranks)

Is my math correct?

EDIT: Someone had already brought up my concern! Sorry! I agree with the idea of limiting the emergent divinity feat


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

So, any estimate on when the Updated version of the Godling books are going to come out?


I am using the Mighty Godling to revamp an old Spelljammer adventure, Under the Dark Fist Print Edition. The BBEG, Vulkaran will be an even better bad guy made into a human Mighty Godling.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

ShepherdGunn wrote:
So, any estimate on when the Updated version of the Godling books are going to come out?

I'm shooting for the end of Oct, because I hope to have another godling book out in mid-November, but both those dates are still in pencil.


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
ShepherdGunn wrote:
So, any estimate on when the Updated version of the Godling books are going to come out?
I'm shooting for the end of Oct, because I hope to have another godling book out in mid-November, but both those dates are still in pencil.

That's great. I was looking at the classes as presented at d20PFSRD, thinking I need to buy it for my campaign. Now I can wait for the update before I get it.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

xorial wrote:
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
ShepherdGunn wrote:
So, any estimate on when the Updated version of the Godling books are going to come out?
I'm shooting for the end of Oct, because I hope to have another godling book out in mid-November, but both those dates are still in pencil.
That's great. I was looking at the classes as presented at d20PFSRD, thinking I need to buy it for my campaign. Now I can wait for the update before I get it.

You can, but there's no need. When we update, everyone who bought the file gets the update free!


Reviewed. Not a perfect supplement, but well worth the money.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

Senjen wrote:
Reviewed. Not a perfect supplement, but well worth the money.

Many thanks for the review!


Hey Owen? I hate to ask, but do you have an update as to when you're looking at doing an errata for the Godling? I did finally snag a copy of it (and the supplement to all Godlings) and I'm really liking the class.

Many thanks!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Cards, Companion Subscriber

Any plans on doing a print version, perhaps with all three books (Godling, Mystic Godling and Godling Ascendant) collected?

I much prefer dead trees over PDFs.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

Merlin_47 wrote:

Hey Owen? I hate to ask, but do you have an update as to when you're looking at doing an errata for the Godling? I did finally snag a copy of it (and the supplement to all Godlings) and I'm really liking the class.

Many thanks!

First, thanks for giving us a look!

There's one more "core" godling book coming out (soon!), The Genius Guide to the Relics of the Godling. Once it's out, I'll be making a push to revise all four books.

Geistlinger wrote:

Any plans on doing a print version, perhaps with all three books (Godling, Mystic Godling and Godling Ascendant) collected?

I much prefer dead trees over PDFs.

First, thanks for considering giving us a look!

There's one more "core" godling book coming out (soon!), The Genius Guide to the Relics of the Godling. Once it's out, I'll be making a push to revise all four books. After that, we'll make a call on print or POD versions, and/or possibly a compilation.

The fact is, print is a much, much more expensive gamble than pdf, and even POD requires additional layout work. We've done that, for some of our most popular books, and consider looking at it. But so far, the effort we put into print products doesn't seem to have a rate of return as good as doing new pdf products.

I suspect part of that is that retailers are still skittish about what they see as 3pp, after the 3.5 bust, and some of it is that a lot of people buying their game books online are fine with pdfs. I know that doesn't help your particular situation, and we may well do a print Godling book at some point, but sadly that has to be a business decision, driven by the numbers.


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Merlin_47 wrote:

Hey Owen? I hate to ask, but do you have an update as to when you're looking at doing an errata for the Godling? I did finally snag a copy of it (and the supplement to all Godlings) and I'm really liking the class.

Many thanks!

First, thanks for giving us a look!

There's one more "core" godling book coming out (soon!), The Genius Guide to the Relics of the Godling. Once it's out, I'll be making a push to revise all four books.

Hmm.....The Genius Guide to the Relics of the Godling? Aside from there being weapons (artifacts?) any other talents/traits/feats in it? Or can't you tell? ;)

Any idea when it might be out? We won't be playing the game with the Godling in it until about the end of May/June. The character I'm using it for, it's a character I made back in 3.5, but there wasn't ever a class that fit for him. Mostly PrC's from 3pp were added to the Ranger/Paladin to make it CLOSE. Mighty Godling is pretty much how I've seen the character. Can't wait to run him in this game!

And you're very welcome!

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

Merlin_47 wrote:
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Merlin_47 wrote:

Hey Owen? I hate to ask, but do you have an update as to when you're looking at doing an errata for the Godling? I did finally snag a copy of it (and the supplement to all Godlings) and I'm really liking the class.

Many thanks!

First, thanks for giving us a look!

There's one more "core" godling book coming out (soon!), The Genius Guide to the Relics of the Godling. Once it's out, I'll be making a push to revise all four books.

Hmm.....The Genius Guide to the Relics of the Godling? Aside from there being weapons (artifacts?) any other talents/traits/feats in it? Or can't you tell? ;)

It's a book with a few items that scale over 20 character levels, and suggestions for how to handle those. They are classic for godling characters as Gifts from the Gods, but any character could take one depending on which option the GM uses.

So, the only feats in it are those that are one option on how to compensate for the extra power of an item that scales with you over 20 levels.

Merlin_47 wrote:
Any idea when it might be out? We won't be playing the game with the Godling in it until about the end of May/June.

This month, fates willing!


Monkeygod wrote:

Ok, I really liked this product, but I feel the Clever Godling didn't get much love.

First, the Mighty Godling has two sets of Divine Traits only he can take, whereas the Clever has just Scholar, which is OK, but could have been better.

Second, a lot of the Scion Talents are just Rogue class features. Between Domain Lineage, a lot of Scion Talents for both versions, and the Divine Power Trait set, the Godling has far too many borrowed class features and not nearly enough new and different abilities.

Even some of the Mighty abilities could have been better. While they are good, none really bring to might the true physical might that the legendary heroes the class was based on have.

Don't get me wrong, I REALLY like the concept, but I'm hoping some of these problems I raised will be fixed come any sequels that come out.

Then you might want to pick up the other two godling books. There's more stuff in there for the Clever Godling.


How is the Magic is Magic Ascendancy supposed to work with dual progression prestige classes such as Mystic Theurge, Arcane Heirophant, and True Necromancer?

If I read it in the right light, it seems possible to get CL37 with an Eldritch Godling2, Cleric1, Mystic Theurge10, Arcane Heirophant7 build, based on the wording of MT and Magic is Magic.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

BeCause wrote:

How is the Magic is Magic Ascendancy supposed to work with dual progression prestige classes such as Mystic Theurge, Arcane Heirophant, and True Necromancer?

If I read it in the right light, it seems possible to get CL37 with an Eldritch Godling2, Cleric1, Mystic Theurge10, Arcane Heirophant7 build, based on the wording of MT and Magic is Magic.

It turns out if you read Magic is Magic carefully, you'll see you do not, inf act, get a CL of 37. (Ignoring the fact I don't see how you qualified for Mystic Theurge).

Magic is Magic (MiM) is an absolute. You use it's calculation, you don't add it's calculation on top of other CL effects.

So, both eldritch godling and cleric are classes that "classes that grant both 0-level and 1stlevel spells at level 1" so you add their levels together for MiM, for a caster level of 3.

Mystic Theurge certainly isn't a class that "classes that grant both 0-level and 1st level spells at level 1." You could argue whether by RAW it's even a "class that grants up to 4th level spells," but it pretty clearly is, so you get *half* its levels, or in this case 5. Same with Arcane Heirophant, for 3. Your caster level is 11.... worse than a normal Mystic Theurge spell.

If you decided MT and AH counted as "classes that grant both 0-level and 1st level spells at level 1." you's still top out at CL 20 with that 20-level build.

What MiM is most useful for is a eldritch godling/cleric built without MT, or one with MT that wants a little extra CL, but the rules of MiM can never give you a CL that exceeds your character level.

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