Does Glitterdust remove miss chance on invisible opponents?

I'm pretty much 100% certain it does. "visibly outlining invisible things for the duration of the spell" seems to say no benefit of invisibility, except you can't make out their features. But it's definitely a huge step up from blindly targeting the square.

My DM argues that if it did that, there'd be no point to See Invis. I think the point of See Invis is to see detail, and to know what area to Glitterdust.

Anyway, is there any harder proof? Or am I actually wrong on this?

Glitterdust outlines invisible creatures. So does faerie fire. The description of that spell says:

Outlined creatures do not benefit from the concealment normally provided by darkness (though a 2nd-level or higher magical darkness effect functions normally), blur, displacement, invisibility, or similar effects.

That pretty much says you're correct; outlined creatures gain no benefit from invisibility.

The attacker don't suffer from mischance for sure. I am no sure if he will benefit from precision damage like sneak attacks.

You can show Faerie fire to your GM. First level spell that trumps invisibility:

Faerie Fire

School evocation [light]; Level druid 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, DF
Range long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area creatures and objects within a 5-ft.-radius burst
Duration 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes

A pale glow surrounds and outlines the subjects. Outlined subjects shed light as candles. Creatures outlined by faerie fire take a –20 penalty on all Stealth checks. Outlined creatures do not benefit from the concealment normally provided by darkness (though a 2nd-level or higher magical darkness effect functions normally), blur, displacement, invisibility, or similar effects. The light is too dim to have any special effect on undead or dark-dwelling creatures vulnerable to light. The faerie fire can be blue, green, or violet, according to your choice at the time of casting. The faerie fire does not cause any harm to the objects or creatures thus outlined.

My DM argues that if it did that, there'd be no point to See Invis. I think the point of See Invis is to see detail, and to know what area to Glitterdust.

Anyway, is there any harder proof? Or am I actually wrong on this?

IMHO

A pale glow surrounds and outlines the subjects. Outlined subjects shed light as candles. Creatures outlined by faerie fire take a -20 penalty on all Stealth checks. Outlined creatures do not benefit from the concealment normally provided by darkness (though a 2nd-level or higher magical darkness effect functions normally), blur, displacement, invisibility, or similar effects.

A cloud of golden particles covers everyone and everything in the area, causing creatures to become blinded and visibly outlining invisible things for the duration of the spell. All within the area are covered by the dust, which cannot be removed and continues to sparkle until it fades. Each round at the end of their turn blinded creatures may attempt new saving throws to end the blindness effect.

Any creature covered by the dust takes a -40 penalty on Stealth checks.

GD doesn't have the same line about not benefitting from concealment, but FF only gives a -20 to stealth while GD gives a -40. I've always run GD and FF as giving the same benefit.

IMHO
See Invisible lasts 10 min/level, Glitterdust lasts 1 rnd/lvl...that is the point of SI. Also, with SI you can identify who you are fighting, with GD you only get the outline.

While I agree that see invisibility and glitterdust both remove the miss chance, I've played where see invisibility does not give full details of the opponent. Note what it says near the end of the spell description:

...such creatures are visible to you as translucent shapes.

The benefit of glitterdust is that everyone in the party can see what is invisible to target it.

RAW, it doesn't do anything to regular concealment; it simply tells you where to attack to have a chance. FF is superior in this regard. It would prevent total concealment from invisibility, as you now have line of sight to the target. Glitterdust does have the blind effect and a larger spread.

That's how I read it, anyway.

Also, it murders Stealth; no rogue is going to stealth their way into a sneak attack that way.

The benefit of glitterdust is that everyone in the party can see what is invisible to target it.

+1.

And the benefit of see invisibility is that you can see every invisible object or creature out to your range of vision, not just those caught in the area effect of a glitterdust.

Shadowcat7 wrote:

The benefit of glitterdust is that everyone in the party can see what is invisible to target it.

+1.

And the benefit of see invisibility is that you can see every invisible object or creature out to your range of vision, not just those caught in the area effect of a glitterdust.

Pretty much this. Sometimes even if you know something is invisible you might not be able to pinpoint it's location for glitterdust. Of course you can always see invisible for yourself and then glitterdust the creature for your party :)

Jason Bulmahn:

Glitterdust kills invisibility and all the rules that go with it.
Glitterdust has no effect on other forms of concealment.
Glitterdust also makes it very difficult to hide and might blind you.

And, of course, Invisibility Purge is even better, since it makes the invisible creature visible to everyone.

My DM argues that if it did that, there'd be no point to See Invis. I think the point of See Invis is to see detail, and to know what area to Glitterdust.

With Glitterdust, you have to guess where the invisible guy is. With See Invisibility, there's no guesswork.

The OP's GM must expect his players to run around constantly throwing glitterdust everywhere. That's the only way it could compete with see invisibility as far as non-reactive invisibility defence.

Glitterdust also overcomes nondetection and mind blank, unlike see invisibility.

Technically, although it makes no sense, glitterdust does NOT work against blur, displacement, or other forms of concealment, and only works against the concealment miss chance provided by invisibility. I agree that it should work exactly like fairie fire, however, despite the spell's wording.

In fact, there should be some generic rules for outlining concealed targets by various means (say, clouds of flour).

Technically, although it makes no sense, glitterdust does NOT work against blur, displacement, or other forms of concealment, and only works against the concealment miss chance provided by invisibility. I agree that it should work exactly like fairie fire, however, despite the spell's wording.

In fact, there should be some generic rules for outlining concealed targets by various means (say, clouds of flour).

Blur: you're covered in blurry glitter.

Displacement you're covered by glitter that looks like it's over there.

as others have said, glitterdust doesn't work against blur/displacement/etc.
since the target is now visible, the miss chance for invisibility shouldn't apply,
but if there is other concealment, e.g. poor light/shadows, that still applies.

FYI, this isn't RAW, but I allow Blind-Fighting to allow re-rolls of Mirror Image.
Improved/Greater Blind-Fighting are really explicitly dealing with specific Concealment levels (50%/20%) so I don't have them do anything vs. Mirror Image (as any way of doing so would just be totally ad-hoc), but allowing the base version to apply is reasonable IMHO (and less cheesy than people closing their eyes to use Blind-Fight with 50% concealment).

moon glum wrote:

Technically, although it makes no sense, glitterdust does NOT work against blur, displacement, or other forms of concealment, and only works against the concealment miss chance provided by invisibility. I agree that it should work exactly like fairie fire, however, despite the spell's wording.

In fact, there should be some generic rules for outlining concealed targets by various means (say, clouds of flour).

Blur: you're covered in blurry glitter.

Displacement you're covered by glitter that looks like it's over there.

Why the violet flames of fairy fire don't blur or displace, but the glittery motes of glitter dust do, is one of the mysteries of the arcane that only wizardly intelligences can comprehend.

Thanks gents, I'll show him Faerie Fire.

Edit: And the Word of God link helps as well.