In the Company of Giants (PFRPG) PDF

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A 1st–20th level Player Character Racial Class

Bigger is Better

From Large to Colossal, from Troll to Storm Giant.

A racial class balanced for play alongside your adventuring companions. Let them play In The Company of Giants.

This new race and racial class is designed for use by player characters at every level of play, with custom special abilities and feats based on elemental powers and subrace paths such as ettins, and frost giants. They are designed to allow you to play something completely new or a classic giant. Presented with this is a plug-and-play 1st-person point-of-view descriptive text that allows for an easy introduction of this new race and class into any existing campaign.

  • Jotun race
  • Jotun Paragon Raical Class 1st-20th level
  • 30+ Special Abiites
  • 18 Feats

From the same designer who crafted the hugely successful Restless Souls and the best-selling Feats 101 comes the fourth book in the extraordinary Questhaven Campaign Setting. This new line brings you the new customer content—along with the best of the 3.0 and 3.5 Open Gaming Content updated for the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. Each element is customized yet kept modular providing game components beyond the core products helping to create an evocative campaign experiences.

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Are there errors or omissions in this product information? Got corrections? Let us know at store@paizo.com.

RIP0054E


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4.30/5 (based on 4 ratings)

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Giant Sized flavor!

5/5

I have always enjoyed Giants and the lore around them so this was a welcomed idea to me. I recently got to use this class in a campaign of Giantslayer which was rather perfect as my growing size was accommodated by the size of the maps. So having played this class here are some of the things I observed:

- I was able to fully immerse myself in Hill Giant lore. The pdf gives you the option for a wide variety of different giants to choose from including Ettins and even trolls. I went Hill Giant and never felt like I was trying to skin things into place
- It’s a competitive class mechanically. I could see ways that the class could potentially be broken but my build was more as a tank which had high HP and very nice AC. I didn’t dominate the group but was right in line with everyone else and able to hold my own.
- The product itself if very well laid out and a huge bonus for me is that there is a companion Herolab product. So if you’re like me and are nearly dependent upon herolabs, you’ll be in luck.

So overall I would highly recommend this product. Was great for me, I got to be mechanically strong while also partaking in some giant sized RP flavor.


Giants as a palayable race

4/5

In the Company of Giants

This pdf is 22 pages long, 1 page front cover, 1 page editorial, 1 page OGL and 2 pages of advertisements.

That leaves 17 pages of content.
The pdf kicks off in the manner and quality I’ve come to expect of Rite Publishing: We get an in-character introduction to the race that is very flavorful and appeals to the scholar of Scandinavian culture that is yours truly. We get two defining social concepts for the race of Jotunnar,that are described herein.

They are Humanoids who can embrace a birthright and evolve into different kinds of giants via two social roleplaying concepts (and of course, XP). The concepts are called Vird and Osoem. Personally, I love flavorful, beautifully written texts that make me want to play a given race. The general introduction and fluff is 4.5 pages long and a perfect introduction that makes the Jotunnar feel unique and has a nice tie-in with the fluff of the Wyrd.

After that, we get the racial traits as well as the Jotun racial paragon class. The class has, 4+Int skills, a good fort-save, medium BAB-Progression and gains an improving unarmed attack and improving natural armor.

One drawback to this class that limits its usability is that you can’t class in or out of the Jotun paragon class. Once you have taken a level in the class, the awakening elemental powers would tear the Jotun asunder if he/she chose to take a level in another class. While probably necessary to balance the class, I still think it’s a pity.

Your Elemental Power also opens a HUGE selection of 40 abilities, making the class quite versatile. From abilities like Backbreaker to Elemental Auras, Jotunnar have a nice selection ready to surprise their enemies.

Jotun also get a slam attack, natural armor, rock throwing and catching and increases in size, Strength and Constitution. It should be noted that Jotunnar may change their sizes back to smaller sizes via actions so they can continue to adventure with their non-Jotun friends.

After that, we get 18 feats for Jotunnar, most of them dealing either with evolving into a specific kind of Giant or fighting with rocks. While they were nice, I did not find them quite as evocative as e.g. the feats for the Wyrd.

Conclusion:
This pdf is beautiful. The artwork is awesome, the editing and formatting is good (I didn’t catch any mistakes), the prose is extremely atmospheric and the ambition of the project is daunting: Make a giant playable without losing the flavor or OPing it. The pdf accomplishes what it set out to do, although the no-multiclassing-ever-restriction is quite hard to swallow. If you want to play a giant, this is for you. However, if you want to play a Giant Druid or something like that, you can’t do that, which is kind of sad. While the class offers a huge set of abilities, I still would have liked some kind of Jotunnar-racial-PrC that they CAN take without dying (In a future release, perhaps?) or some Giant-specific magic items, though.

Due to the multiclassing restriction as well as the lack of a PrC or e.g. magical Jotun-bags and the like, I’ll rate this 4 Stars. If you don’t mind the multiclass restriction, add a star.

If you’re a DM looking for a refreshing take on Giants, check this out. At the very least you get an awesome read for not even 4 bucks.


In the Company of Gaints

4/5

First I would like to say a few things about this product. One I got the PDF free for purposes of this review. Second I will honestly say I had no intention of buying this product at first.

This product is 22 pages long. Cover, credits(with a nice dedication to Gray Gygax for Against the Giants) and introduction, each 1 page long. There isn't any chapters but I am breaking it up by chapters so it is easier to review.

Chapter 1 – Jotunnar as a race (4 pages)
This deals with description, society, relations to others, religion, alignment, racial traits, height, weight, etc. There is a nice viking feel here and the society is well written and interesting. They have a choice between 2 sets of stat bonuses. Both are balanced with other races in PFRPG.

Chapter 2 – Racial Paragon Class (9 pages)
It starts off with a page that explain what a racial paragon class is and how they work. One of the things I think will disappoint some people is that. As a Jotunnar you have to choose at 1st level if you want to take a normal class or this racial class. Once you pick you are locked into the racial class forever or if you pick a class, then you can never take the Paragon class. It is done for balance reason but I still think that will disappoint some.

For those that opt not to take the paragon class they avg about 7ft tall and play like any other race. Those that take the paragon class slowly get larger as they level up. Some class information.
HD d8, 4 skills, All simple weapons(no armor or shields), Medium BaB.

At first level you have to choose a elemental power, Air (electricity), Earth(Acid), Fire(Fire), Water(Cold). This will effect what elemental powers you can pick as you level up, since you can only pick the general ones or the ones from your element. They get a power at 1st, 3rd and then ever 3rd level.(there are 40 to choose from). They also start with a natural armor of +4 which goes up every other level and finally Slam Attack which is a natural attack that goes up in damage as they level.

At 2nd level they gain a +2 to str and con stats and every 3rd level after that they can choose one of them to raise by +2 and every 6th level they raise them both again. They gain a few other powers like rock throwing as they level as well. As they increase in size they do not get stat bonuses those are already built in, but you do get mods to AC, CMB/CMD, fly, stealth and move. To allow them to fit in dungeons and such they can take a full round action to shrink down one size.

Chapter 3 – Feats (3 pages)
There are 18 new feats in this chapter. The feats are all for Jotunnar or giants, they seem well thought out and they fit.

Final pages OGL (1 page), ads (2 pages)

Closing thoughts. I mentioned this is not a product I would have normally bought, which is why I am even more glad Rite Publishing sent this to me, cause otherwise I would have missed out on this product. The artwork is very nice in this book and it is layout well, making for a very pretty book. I might not use this book a lot but it is still nice and something that I will use occasionally. If you have always wanted to play a giant or allow giants in your games and be balanced. Then this is the book for you.

I honestly only have one knock on this book, no ability to multi-class cause I know some people are going to want to do that. I wish they had been able to come up with a way to do and keep the balance. The best suggestion I have been able to come up with is, feats that replicate some of the class abilities open to those that opt to take regular classes.

I am giving this book a 4.5 star for what it is. It seems well done and balanced as far as I can tell with out play testing it. What keeps it from being a 5 star to me is no ability to multi-class honestly cause I know some people would have wanted that. I do hope they do more race books along this line honestly especially if they can do multi-class option for other small monster races. I will certainly be keeping a eye out from now on for such books. At 3.75 it is a good buy.


Am I biased?

4/5

I love giants. I'm not sure why. They seem like a very simple type of monster, and yet I love them. Maybe its the association with Norse and Celtic myths that draw me to these guys.

What you get with this product isn't a race, but actually a race and a hybrid race/class. If you play the "stunted" version of the race, you are essentially a humanoid with a powerful build that has a giantish lineage. To me this works very well for a Celtic or Norse themed game.

On the other hand, if you don't play "stunted" version of the class, you have to take the paragon class, which essentially allows you to customize your character into one of the more traditional giant types, over time.

Essentially you are from a race of giants that kind of has the potential to be any other type of giant.

There are a couple of minor, but understandable, aspects of this product that keep me from rating it higher. I understand from the mechanics viewpoint why a character that isn't "stunted" is locked into the Paragon Class, but the "fluff" part of it just doesn't work as well for me as it could. I'm not quite sure why, but the "advance or die" reasoning isn't as satisfying as it could be.

Also, while it doesn't bother me to end up as a Huge frost/fire/stone giant, if I'm playing this class to emulate one of the "smaller" giant races, I'm not sure I'm as thrilled with playing a gargantuan or colossal giant.

Those certainly aren't game breakers for me, however, and the temptation of playing pretty much any type of giant with lots of "extra" thematic powers via the paragon class, and the added benefit of being able to just play a "giant-blooded humanoid" if I don't want to get into that class, this is a solid offering for me, and since giants are pretty much a standard for most campaigns, a pretty easy concept to slot into a campaign.


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Yeah! Now up at the paizo store.


I wanted to thank you Knight Errant Jr. for taking the time to do a review.


Knight Errant Jr.

If yo don't mind me asking how would you have written the fluff for the section on no multiclassing.


Qwilion wrote:

Knight Errant Jr.

If yo don't mind me asking how would you have written the fluff for the section on no multiclassing.

I'll have to cogitate on this a bit. As I said, I really liked the product, so I don't think it was a horrible choice, and I actually like that you at least gave a reason for "no multiclassing." I'll get back to you once something springs to mind.


I look forward to your feedback :)

"Evolve or Die"

Steve Russell
Rite Publishing


I think the best way that I can relate this is to cite my own aversion to absolutes. I really like the idea that you can't multiclass, I like that you are "locked on course," and I like that you could just blow up from not being able to control your power . . . however, I think its just the minor quibble of saying every Jotun lasts exactly one week before they die is what didn't quite site just right.

Its probably just my wishy washy-ness showing through, or just my annoyance with things like Prestige Classes that say there are only X number in the world, but I probably would have gone with "almost no Jotun can bend their mind away from the contemplation of the bloodline and its associated element long enough to learn the class skills of a class unrelated to their heritage. The few that have have almost always died, consumed by the unchecked energies of their neglected bloodlines."

I have a weird image of someone trying to game the system by running a Jotun in some Undermountain/Dragon's Delve/Castle Greyhawk style setting where they might gain a few levels in that week before they go boom, or even metagaming the end of the campaign to throw a few class levels on at the end (hm . . . actually, that last option is kind of interesting for a "I'm going to sacrifice myself to finish this quest ending).

Long winded cogitating aside, I'm curious. I like how this turned out, but I'm wondering, did you ever think that there might be, say, plateaus where you could "leave the path" and not be able to return.

For example, say, at 10th or 16th level. I'm not saying it should or shouldn't work that way, its just something I started wondering about as I was reading through this.


I guess I could have also through it 2d6 days (secret roll by GM).

Yes someone trying it for those seven days was why it was in there.

Yes if there had been more time to playtest and know the outcomes of multiclassing I would have allowed it, my biggest concern was full base attack bonus classes more than anything else.

From a simulationists point of view I would have liked to creat paths forr characters be able to multiclass when they finished an aspect of a particular giant,

Like once you gain Rend you may now advance as a ranger (Troll Hunter!)

Or once you have all the requirements of a fronst giant you can enter the Runecaster prestige class or Runeblade base class.

Yet 30 days is not enough time, perhaps when we do a Questhaven Patronage Project we will get more time to play-test the really crazy ideas.


Hey, I'm just impressed and happy to know how much time and effort you put into making sure things are actually playtested.


Qwilion wrote:
Yet 30 days is not enough time, perhaps when we do a Questhaven Patronage Project we will get more time to play-test the really crazy ideas.

Yes, please.


Urizen we have to finish Colsieum Morpheuon or Breaking of Fostor Nagar first

and thanks Knight Errant Jr.


Qwilion wrote:
Urizen we have to finish Colsieum Morpheuon or Breaking of Fostor Nagar first.

.

[temper tantrum]

But Steeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeve!!!!

[/temper tantrum]

I know you do. I'm just speaking on behalf of the silent minority everytime you name drop it as a possible patronage project. ;)

Dark Archive

For those that care, I will be doing one of my reviews for this product this week. I have just DLed it and another book so have not even looked at them yet.


Thanks Dark Mistress, I most definitely care a great deal. :)

Dark Archive

Qwilion wrote:
Thanks Dark Mistress, I most definitely care a great deal. :)

Well yes but you don't really count. Since I don't think my review will effect you buying your own product. :)


Actionable Feedback is something that is always counts, it helps us improve an update the product (one of the real benfits of PDF).

I want to thank Dark Mistress for supporting us by taking the time to do such an in depth and detailed review of our product.

We have 3 other racial books that do allow you to multiclass all you like Ironborn of Questhaven, Wyrd of Questhaven, and Restless Souls (though this is more a template than a race).

I am working on a multiclassing option that allows it upon particular paths for example when you have all the abilites of a troll you could multiclass as a ranger (Troll Hunter) or when you have all the abilities of a stone giant you can multiclass as a earth mage. etc. There was just not enough time to play-test it to where I was comfortable, but I should have included those comments in a side bar as a guideline for GMs who wanted to go that direction.

It is a PDF though so with two big chunks of feedback that say MULTICLASSING! Its something for an update!

A good review is all the support I could hope for, and you can always buy one of our other products that don't have a review already if you have an overwhelming desire to give me money :)

Thanks again

Steve Russell,
Rite Publishing

Dark Archive

Well multi-classing isn't a big deal for me. But I do think for some people it will be a big deal. I am sure some will want to play a giant druid or something. You are welcome for the review and thanks for the product. As i said normally it is not something I would have bought but I am now glad I have it. I try to give detailed reviews as I feel that really helps other decided if they want to buy it or not and thats the point of a review after all.

Your production is very nice, i think these are the pretties 3pp books i have seen so far. I will be looking at a few of your other books now, the 101 feats right now interest me the most but will see. Glad you liked the review. I posted up reviews here, at ENWorld, Drivethru and Necromancer games, just as a FYI incase you want to go make comments.


Well you can play a Jotun gaint druid, you just can't play a Jotun giant Paragon Druid :)

But your right.

Steve.

Dark Archive

Qwilion wrote:

Well you can play a Jotun gaint druid, you just can't play a Jotun giant Paragon Druid :)

But your right.

Steve.

Yeah I have been thinking about that. How about a group of feats that mimic some of the paragon class abilities and such that any Jotun giant can take if they took another class? That might be a way to kind multiclass and stay balanced. Anyways just a thought.


For folks interested in playtesting your own giant, I have completed adding the OGC from this product into my Excel-based character sheet (latest version is always linked in my profile). This includes the Jotunnar race, the Jotun Paragon class, and various feats. If anyone should happen upon errors, please let me know (my standing discussion thread is also linked in my profile).

While working all the mechanics into place, I did notice a few things as comments/questions:

  • The slam attack damage obviously scales at the same levels as the Size Increase class ability. Is it intended that the jotun deal this damage regardless of size (this is how I have it for now), or is the damage actually tied to size? I can see how having a Medium sized "giant" dealing massive damage due to their lineage works from a flavor perspective, just want to make sure I've coded it correctly.
  • When slam damage is increased with Improved Natural Attack, is it intended to increase the damage of all elemental powers tied to slam (Trample, Rend, Pound, etc.) as well?
  • For Rock Throwing, same questions above--does Improved Natural Attack (slam) increase the damage and is damage tied to the size of the rock?
  • For Aspect of Earth, the taiga giant is mentioned at first, but then is omitted from follow-on sentences in Benefits.
  • The Control Weather elemental power has the Levitate description it seems--I assumed it should be 1/day.
  • Elemental Aura lists both "number of rounds equal to your jotun paragon class level" and "number of times per day equal to 3 + your Constitution modifier" with regard to usage. I interpreted this as "you can use the power X times per day, and each usage lasts Y rounds. Can this aura be turned off early? It also seems odd that it only affects non-allies.
  • Elemental Blast mixes terms for "burst" and "spread" in the description. It seems like this should simply be a burst, as it would be odd for a "blast of fire" to go around corners and such like a spread.
  • Rend states "Your slam attacks become claw attacks, if you hit with both claw attacks." does that mean the attacks are only claw attacks if both hit, or is that sentence fragment after the comma supposed to be deleted? If it is deleted and the slam becomes claws, does this impact elemental powers other than Grab that also tie damage to slam?
  • For Terrain Mastery, can it be selected multiple times to add terrain types?

Beyond these questions, I wanted to note that this is a nice product--it does a very good job of adding product identity material that makes the purchase worthwhile and at the same time includes a nice spread of OGC for the gaming community to utilize.


Might I suggest linkage to the excel based character sheet?

I will have answers to the other questions later,(look like I have some errata to add) as I am swamped today.


The slam attack damage obviously scales at the same levels as the Size Increase class ability. Is it intended that the jotun deal this damage regardless of size (this is how I have it for now), or is the damage actually tied to size? I can see how having a Medium sized "giant" dealing massive damage due to their lineage works from a flavor perspective, just want to make sure I've coded it correctly.

Quote:
When slam damage is increased with Improved Natural Attack, is it intended to increase the damage of all elemental powers tied to slam (Trample, Rend, Pound, etc.) as well?

No, it would only increase his damage dealt by the slam attack, the damage listed in the chart stays the same.

Quote:
For Rock Throwing, same questions above--does Improved Natural Attack (slam) increase the damage and is damage tied to the size of the rock?

No, it would only increase his damage dealt by the slam attack, the damage listed in the chart stays the same.

This is to avoid the silly Hulking Hurler issue of carrying around a +1 flaming returning depleted uranium boulder

Quote:
For Aspect of Earth, the taiga giant is mentioned at first, but then is omitted from follow-on sentences in Benefits.

Taiga Giant was a last minute add on request from a playtester, and the extra abilities for taiga giants, so its my fault if its missing from the follow-on sentences it should have been in there.

Quote:
The Control Weather elemental power has the Levitate description it seems--I assumed it should be 1/day.

Its a copy paste error should have been control weather rather than levitate.

Quote:
Elemental Aura lists both "number of rounds equal to your jotun paragon class level" and "number of times per day equal to 3 + your Constitution modifier" with regard to usage. I interpreted this as "you can use the power X times per day, and each usage lasts Y rounds. Can this aura be turned off early? It also seems odd that it only affects non-allies.

That was not the way it was intended, yes if you Con is 16 and your a 6th level Jotun patragon you could use it 3 times per day for 6 rounds each.

The reason was we had a real issue when the aura was up and the Jotun went unconscious and the healer tried to run up to heal him getting zapped, not to mention when your bigger your aura starts covering the majority of the battlefield. Its the old battle between simulationist and gamist I sided on the gamist for this, as we want it to be fun and cool at the same time.

Quote:
Elemental Blast mixes terms for "burst" and "spread" in the description. It seems like this should simply be a burst, as it would be odd for a "blast of fire" to go around corners and such like a spread.

replace spread with burst, good catch.

Quote:
Rend states "Your slam attacks become claw attacks, if you hit with both claw attacks." does that mean the attacks are only claw attacks if both hit, or is that sentence fragment after the comma supposed to be deleted?

Should read

Your slam attacks become claw attacks. If a you hit with both claw attacks, you latch onto the opponent’s body and tear its flesh.

slam becomes claws, does this impact elemental powers other than Grab that also tie damage to slam?

No, that is why Grab is specifically mentioned as being affected (it can weaken powers that rely on grappling because you have lost the use of grab).

Quote:
For Terrain Mastery, can it be selected multiple times to add terrain types?

Yes.


I like this product quite a bit but it seems that for a paragon class devoted to playing gigantic humanoids you gain very little actual benefit from being big. In fact it would seem to be all penalty. The usual benefits of size increases (bonus Str and Con, increased damage) are divorced from your actual size in this class. You get them regardless of your size. Yet the penalties of being larger (to hit penalties and armor class penalties) are still based on the actual size of your character.

Outside of some feats and powers you are generally better off to just stay at Medium size since you get almost all the the benefits and none of the penalties of giant sizes (which are significant).

It won't stop me from enjoying the paragon class but there is definitely a disconnect between roleplaying a giant and the classes performance.


In the playtests we found Reach, Grappling, and bonus to grappling are a big deal.

the reason we divorced them is the changing size was for playablity, and we have found in every playtest players want to use the bigger miniture and to be able to grab opponents and throw them like boulders.

Steve.

Dark Archive

Nice review End, I guess this falls under the better late than never huh? :D


Some other file always came up, plus my move back to Germany was more complicated than I expected. And I wanted to do so much other stuff, I frankly almost forgot about this one until I started writing my review of Gargoyles. (Which I'll put up tomorrow.)


A review is a review is a review, does not matter when I get one I will always take one. So thanks for the review Endzeitgeist

I do get alot of flack for the no-multiclassing bit, but I will say you can play a stunted jotun as a druid or priest just not one with reach and really I would not do one without an extensive play-test.

Really though when I do questhaven I expect there will be a prestige class for Jotun Runepriests and maybe runeblades.


Yay me! I'm so looking forward to being a part of the Questhaven project. :)


OK...I've finally played the Jotun Paragon and I loved it. Its a nice balance between playability and giatish abilities.

I still think the division between elemental powers and giant oriented feats is a bit peculiar or awkward...like feats/elemental powers are trying to be one but are really the other. I don't know...its just feels odd. But it doesn't impact the class performance at all.


I guess I could have done some of the giantish powers and gave a giant the option of doing a elemental power or a giantish feat. But things worked out really well in the end.

I am glad you enjoyed it.


New commenter (and probably not a frequent one.) I like this Racial Character Class (to use the Rifts terminology), and - along with Northlands - it's a really nice addition to my group's post-Ragnarok game. R.A. Boettcher and erian_7 already addressed several of my questions, but I do still have a few things that I'd appreciate clarification on.

1. Terrain Mastery (fire): Gives a bonus to "Jumping" skill checks. Should this be expanded to Acrobatics, or amended to specify that it adds to Acrobatics skill checks for Jumping?

2. Dark Vision: Any particular reason only Aspect (ogre) and Aspect (troll) Jotuns can get this one? They aren't the only types of giants who have it (stone immediately comes to mind).
3. Elemental Sheath: Usage is a bit oddly phrased, but I'm assuming it works like your explanation for Elemental Aura, so the 6th level Jotun Paragon with 16 Constitution could use it 7 times per day for 3 rounds each. My question is, is the sheath attached to the character or to the weapon? If our fire aspect Jotun put an elemental sheath on his sword and handed it to a friend, would it still be on fire? If he puts the sheath on a rock and throws it, does the rock do extra fire damage to the target? How about arrows?

4. Energy Resistance/Immunity: At 10th level, this gives a vulnerability to the opposing element. The Aspect of... feats also give a vulnerability to the opposing element. Do these vulnerabilities stack?
When the Jotun gains their elemental subtype at 10th level, should they get any of the abilities that go with them? Most relevent, "Air creatures always have fly speeds" and 'Creatures with the water subtype always have swim speeds and can move in water without making Swim checks. A water creature can breathe underwater and can usually breathe air as well." Given that, for example, there is a Water Breathing elemental power that has higher prerequisites than Energy Resistance, I assume this is not the case.
That said, any suggestions for how an Aspect of Water Jotun *could* get a swim speed? Even Terrain Mastery (Aquatic) only gives a bonus to Swim skill checks.

5. Jotun's Bag: Is this a reference to something that got cut from the book? The only reference I could find was in the Elemental Power.

6. Fling and Jotun's Bag: Both of these reference an opponent "two size categories smaller than you". All the other manhandling abilities talk about opponents two or more size categories smaller, or within one size category. Does these two really only work on opponents exactly two size categories smaller?

7. Regeneration: This is written with the 3.5 version of Regeneration, not the Pathfinder version. Is that intentional?

8. Stone-Touch: Usable for a number of rounds equal to Constitution modifier (minimum 1; henceforth 'x'). No mention of number of times per day. Is this one of those "can be used for x rounds per day, in any combination" abilities, or as a spell-like ability does it just need to be reactivated every x rounds (as a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity)?

9. Size Increase: The bit about equipment resizing is also oddly phrased. As written, only equipment the Jotun "possesses" (as opposed to actually having equipped) at the time they level up will change with them. First, does possess mean own or have equipped, and second when is the Jotun considered to be leveling? In every group I've gamed with, that's something that happens during downtime over the course of days to months.

10. Rock Throwing: It says damage is "generally" double slam damage. Is this an instance where size really does matter? Is a 20th level Jotun paragon throwing a Tiny rock going to do 8d6 damage (double their slam damage) or 2d6 damage (double the slam damage of the smallest size that can throw it)?

11. Oversized Weapon: Apparently lifted straight from Cloud giants, who are always Huge. Should that actually be "can wield weapons of one size category greater than normal that you are proficient with without penalty", or can a 13th level Jotun paragon wield a Gargantuan weapon with no penalty even when he's Medium-size?

12. Militant: By 19th level, I think most Jotuns will have figured out what weapons they're going to be using all of the time. In other words, it appears to be of very limited utility based on when it would appear in a campaign. It feels to me like "Well, we needed to give them something that level, and Militant is an ability that two kinds of giants get."

13. Awaken Elemental Power: It says each natural attack needs to be enchanted. Would a single enchantment work for their Slam power, or would they need to do it twice since there are "two" slam attacks?

14. Pinning Throw: Is there a magical component to this feat? As written, a high-Strength Jotun could pin even strong opponent with a 5 pound rock (that really, anybody with a Strength of greater than zero should be able to move it off of them.)

15. I'm just curious about whether there should be an Extra Elemental Power feat. Commentary: While it's true that this is generally more powerful than a single feat, comparable to Extra Mercy/Revelation/Etc. from other classes. Just like the Favored Class bonus to learn a new spell is more useful for spontaneous spellcasters than prepared spellcasters.

-Tommy


Tommy Tanaka wrote:

New commenter (and probably not a frequent one.) I like this Racial Character Class (to use the Rifts terminology), and - along with Northlands - it's a really nice addition to my group's post-Ragnarok game. R.A. Boettcher and erian_7 already addressed several of my questions, but I do still have a few things that I'd appreciate clarification on.

1. Terrain Mastery (fire): Gives a bonus to "Jumping" skill checks. Should this be expanded to Acrobatics, or amended to specify that it adds to Acrobatics skill checks for Jumping?

Let me first say this is exceptionally good workable feedback I hope you continue to comment on our products so that we can improve them.

It should be:

adds to Acrobatics skill checks for Jumping

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2. Dark Vision: Any particular reason only Aspect (ogre) and Aspect (troll) Jotuns can get this one? They aren't the only types of giants who have it (stone immediately comes to mind).

I am pretty sure they are are the only ones....one you include the stone giant but I am always open to being wrong.

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3. Elemental Sheath: Usage is a bit oddly phrased, but I'm assuming it works like your explanation for Elemental Aura, so the 6th level Jotun Paragon with 16 Constitution could use it 7 times per day for 3 rounds each.

7/day for 6 rounds each (Con has nothing to do with it).

[b]Elemental Sheath (Su):[b] You can use this ability as a free action a number of times per day equal to 1 +1 for every jotun paragon class levels you posses. This energy is the same type as you chose for your elemental power. Your attacks deal extra damage of that type for a number of rounds equal to your jotun paragon class level, the amount depending on your jotun paragon class level.
You summon elemental power to bathe your weapon—or even your bare fists—in energy, allowing you to deal extra energy damage with your strikes.

Class Level Extra Damage
1st 1d4
9th 1d6
15th 1d8

Special: if you take this ability a second time you add an additional die of damage

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My question is, is the sheath attached to the character or to the weapon?

"You summon elemental power to bathe your weapon—or even your bare fists—in energy,"

Its attached to your weapon when you activate the ability (or your natural weapons in this case.

[quoteIf our fire aspect Jotun put an elemental sheath on his sword and handed it to a friend, would it still be on fire?

Yes

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If he puts the sheath on a rock and throws it, does the rock do extra fire damage to the target? How about arrows?

Yes ranged weapons gain the benefit for 6 rounds as well, the effect is not limited to melee attack (ala it does not say melee weapons or you natural melee weapons). I could probably spell this out so that is absolutely clear.

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4. Energy Resistance/Immunity: At 10th level, this gives a vulnerability to the opposing element. The Aspect of... feats also give a vulnerability to the opposing element. Do these vulnerabilities stack?

No because they are the same type of penalty. Typed bonuses and penalties never stack.

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When the Jotun gains their elemental subtype at 10th level, should they get any of the abilities that go with them? Most relevent, "Air creatures always have fly speeds" and 'Creatures with the water subtype always have swim speeds and can move in water without making Swim checks. A water creature can breathe underwater and can usually breathe air as well."

No

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Given that, for example, there is a Water Breathing elemental power that has higher prerequisites than Energy Resistance, I assume this is not the case.

That said, any suggestions for how an Aspect of Water Jotun *could* get a...

I would probably create a new elemental power that did so, requiring you to be at least a 5th level jotun paragon; also it would require having water breathing, water subtype, or terrain mastery aquatic. (great thought on a new power)

Really good stuff.

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5. Jotun's Bag: Is this a reference to something that got cut from the book? The only reference I could find was in the Elemental Power.

Not is a referance to the elemental power jotun's bag which works alot like Swallow Whole.

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6. Fling and Jotun's Bag: Both of these reference an opponent "two size categories smaller than you". All the other manhandling abilities talk about opponents two or more size categories smaller, or within one size category. Does these two really only work on opponents exactly two size categories smaller?

its an oversight should have been "At least two size categories smaller than you"

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7. Regeneration: This is written with the 3.5 version of Regeneration, not the Pathfinder version. Is that intentional?

No this was me missing that the change, its a huge drawback sometimes to working with 3.x (arcana evolved) while also working on Pathfinder. Thanks for the catch your the first person to point this out.

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8. Stone-Touch: Usable for a number of rounds equal to Constitution modifier (minimum 1; henceforth 'x'). No mention of number of times per day. Is this one of those "can be used for x rounds per day, in any combination" abilities, or as a spell-like ability does it just need to be reactivated every x rounds (as a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity)?

Replaces the word "rounds" with Times per day, the ability is instantaneous.

9. Size Increase: The bit about equipment resizing is also oddly phrased. As written, only equipment the Jotun "possesses" (as opposed to actually having equipped) at the time they level up will change with them. First, does possess mean own or have equipped, and second when is the Jotun considered to be leveling? In every group I've gamed with, that's something that happens during downtime over the course of days to months.

10. Rock Throwing: It says damage is "generally" double slam damage. Is this an instance where size really does matter? Is a 20th level Jotun paragon throwing a Tiny rock going to do 8d6 damage (double their slam damage) or 2d6 damage (double the slam damage of the smallest size that can throw it)?

11. Oversized Weapon: Apparently lifted straight from Cloud giants, who are always Huge. Should that actually be "can wield weapons of one size category greater than normal that you are proficient with without penalty", or can a 13th level Jotun paragon wield a Gargantuan weapon with no penalty even when he's Medium-size?

12. Militant: By 19th level, I think most Jotuns will have figured out what weapons they're going to be using all of the time. In other words, it appears to be of very limited utility based on when it would appear in a campaign. It feels to me like "Well, we needed to give them something that level, and Militant is an ability that two kinds of giants get."

13. Awaken Elemental Power: It says each natural attack needs to be enchanted. Would a single enchantment work for their Slam power, or would they need to do it twice since there are "two" slam attacks?

14. Pinning Throw: Is there a magical component to this feat? As written, a high-Strength Jotun could pin even strong opponent with a 5 pound rock (that really, anybody with a Strength of greater than zero should be able to move it off of them.)

15. I'm just curious about whether there should be an Extra Elemental Power feat. Commentary: While it's true that this is generally more powerful than a single feat, comparable to Extra Mercy/Revelation/Etc. from other classes. Just like the Favored Class bonus to learn a new spell is more useful for spontaneous spellcasters than prepared spellcasters.


This is a sweet product


glad you like it.


I can see the reason the paragon class is denied multiclassing, but would have liked it if I could stop at some point (i.e. 3rd level), and take another class, but could never resume the paragon class ever again. But again I can see a reason for it.


Any chance of giving this product some more options?
and slightly better wording on pages 13-14, size increase on going up and down a size, when I first read it, it sounded like I could only go down 1 size category and back up to the current size category, until I read the "Quickened growth" feat and it made me rethink the wording.

I have though of a few ideas for options for race options, paragon class, racial feats, and maybe something else.


I guess an example would have helped.

More later


Examples

page 14 from size increase.
The last paragraph of size increase is;
"You can as a full round action reduce your
size back down one category, it also takes a
standard action to increase your size back up
one category."

To make it more clear it could be;
"You can as a full round action reduce your size
back down one category, down to medium size, it
also takes a standard action to increase your
size back up one category, to max size, you can
currently change to."

Jotun Racial Traits (from the book, but not all of it)
Minor racial trait defining, for use with tradable racial traits
Original traits (only 2 out of the 5 or so) given names
Imposing Size:
Jotun are use to lording their size over
those around them and possess a +2 racial
bonus to Intimidate and Sense Motive skill
checks.
Craftsman:
Jotunnar enjoy a +2 racial bonus to all Craft
skill checks.

alternate racial traits:
Slight energy resistance:
pick 1 energy resistance (acid, cold, electricity, fire)
for every 2 HD you have, you gain 1 resistance against
that energy, this replaces the Craftsman racial trait.

Skilled Jotun:
You select one of the following feats;
Acrobatic, Alertness, Athletic, Deceitful, Persuasive,
Self-Sufficent, or Stealthy as a bonus feat. This racial
trait replaces the Imposing Size racial trait.

Human Sized:
You gain the "Pass For Human" feat and
You use Human height and weight tables
for medium size. This racial trait
replaces the Imposing Size racial trait.

Smooth Talker:
You gain a +1 racial bonus to Appraise, Bluff, and Diplomacy
This replaces the Craftsman racial trait.

Do you want feat and other examples as well?
I still have way more ideas.

If you do use these, I would only want to be credited with making them and this forum will be a third party that holds the original thoughts
and agreements between us.

Signed Scott Werba


Well?


Sorry swamped

What I meant was it would have helped had the book provided an example.

More later (sorry really swamped).


Love this product, but just thought I'd point out a couple of things. In my pdf under Control Weather it says "Control Weather (Sp): You must possess the Aspect of Air (storm giant) feat and be at least
13th level to gain this ability. 2/day you can use levitate as a spell like ability, your caster level is equal to your jotun paragon class level." As levitate is already a seperate ability by it self I'm assuming that is a mistake. The other thing is the strength/constitution increases. In the Description it names these as inherent bonuses. I'm assuming this is not arcurate since inherent bonuses do not stack and can never exceed +5. Perhaps an untyped bonus was what was intended? If this has already been pointed out please disregaurd this message. Thanks


No levitation is not a separate ability, its there to allow a jotun paragon to emulate being a storm giant (who has levitate).

They are inherent bonuses, and yes they ignore the standard approach of going above a +5, (and only a wish limits that to +5, there is no hard rule that I am aware off that says an inherent bonuses can't go above a +5, but if there was this would break it.)

There is no stacking, it does not say "you get an additonal +2 inherent bonus" what it says is "At 5th level, you increase one of those inherent bonuses by 2 (your choice)." so it goes form being a +2 bonus to being a +4 bonus, its not about stacking its actually changing the amount the bonus gives.


Has the PDF been updated to reflect any updates that needed to be made?


No the compilation does In The Company Of Monsters


Got the compilation, any future plans to make more monsters playable?

Quick Question on the jotun's ability to adjust size. Can you shrink down multiple size categories. Say you were a lv. 10 paragon, making you Huge size. Normally you can spend a full round action to shrink one size category. Would you be able to spend another full round action on your next turn to shrink again down to Medium?


Yes.


We were discussing it and wondering what is the purpose of not being able to multicast when you take levels in the jot in paragon class?


ninjaboy152 wrote:
We were discussing it and wondering what is the purpose of not being able to multicast when you take levels in the jot in paragon class?

I mean multi classing what is the purpose of not being able to do it?


This was changed in the update that appears in the print and pdf version of In The Company of Monsters The Jotun Paragon may multiclass once he reaches 6th level.

The game design reason has to do with some munchkin stuff we saw with multiclassing in the playtests. the in character reason has to do with massive growth not stopping creating unchecked growth like cancer.


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New Hero Lab Files from Rite Publishing!

In The Company Of Monsters (PFRPG), contains six evocative player races and racial paragon classes that are sure to bring new and exciting player options to your game. Includes new options for the Gargoyle, Giant, Ironborn (constructs!), Minotaur, Restless Soul (a soul returned from the dead), and Wyrd (half-elf/half ogre mage) races. ($9.99)

http://www.wolflair.com/index.php?context=hero_lab&page=pathfinder_rpg_ packages#ritepublishing

Liberty's Edge

I just started playing a Hill Giant character using this supplement win a Giantslayer campaign. So far this is a blast! I've only gotten to play a few games in and mostly focusing on various grapples as a build. But here is my question, with so many Giants being associated with animals, is there any plans for an additional supplement to expand the rules to allow for animal companions. Having a bear would just fit my giant so well!

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