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I like dwarves.
Just sayin'
It's true. Craig loves him some dwarfs. Probably cuz he's so short and stumpy.
I'm pretty sure that I've killed off a dwarf of his in every edition: from Zeffin in "B1: In Search of the Unknown" in our first session 29 years ago, right up to his first character in the-edition-which-shall-not-be-named.
"Ah'll tak' ye it ay thes warld Stiggy, jist as Ah birthed ye in. Lest born, farst tae die. Ah aye kent ay ye."Can we please set down right now that Golarion dwarves don't talk like that? Make them order-lovers who abhor accents or slang!
That alone would make that book so worth buying.
"By th' hairs ay mah undahbeart, whit kin' ay pish is 'at. Yu'r th' dolpid goblabairns 'a dinnae gab reit!"
*WHACK*
Wadd? Eich vaschtehn kä wodd. Awwa wenn dau so komisch schwätze duscht, mache eich dadd aach!
I don't like dwarves. Doesn't mean that NO one likes dwarves. Not everything Paizo publishes needs to be something I like! :)
In any case, my name's up top as the author just as a placeholder. We don't have an author yet (we're assigning one this week, in fact). In fact... whenever you see my name listed as an author when we release a new product, it's pretty sure that, like the cover image, it's just a placeholder.
ANYway... the key is to assign an author who LOVES dwarves, so that way they get the quality writing they deserve!
James, you just haven't realised how much you really love dwarves - yet...
DWARVES!!DWARVES!!DWARVES!!DWARVES!!DWARVES!! yes!!!!
I'm so happy, that I'll postpone whining about a BOOK ABOUT GNOMES for a couple of days!
(By the way, really think that halflings are boring...)
GRU
I'll be dleighted to buy this when it comes out. Dwarves never seem to get the respect they deserve in RPGs.
I'll be dleighted to buy this when it comes out. Dwarves never seem to get the respect they deserve in RPGs.
I don't know. They've been overpowered in 3.5e, gods know why - maybe to make them more attractive to players.
All it achieved was to make them more attractive to powergamers.
Sadly, the number of decent roleplayers I've seen use dwarves is the minority. The majority is powergamers or people who want a convencient excuse to play a racist, sexist, rude sociopath. Usually it was both.
I'll be delighted to buy this when it comes out. Dwarves never seem to get the respect they deserve in RPGs.I don't know. They've been overpowered in 3.5e, gods know why - maybe to make them more attractive to players.
All it achieved was to make them more attractive to powergamers.
There I've got to respectfully disagree. I don't see the 3.5 dwarves as "overpowered". Though I'm sorry to hear it made things difficult for you in your own gaming.
Sadly, the number of decent roleplayers I've seen use dwarves is the minority. The majority is powergamers or people who want a convencient excuse to play a racist, sexist, rude sociopath. Usually it was both.
A "racist, sexist, rude sociopath"? Sorry to hear it. It sounds odd to me, though, as all the racist-sexist-sociopath characters I've seen played in D&D used to be half-orcs but have since become elves.
Though there is a halfling ranger I've read about. ;)
"Noo thes striplin fellah gabs a bree wit. Aw ye feckin' gnomes hae ur a puckl'a lettahs 'e swap aroond. We Khazak hae coolchah."Ha ha ha ha! I knew this would happen.
You gnomes have a glong gway to go.
Sunna tha wah cah gri tuih ochyer gret narsty tairlt!
And we dwarves like Craig Shackleton.I like dwarves.
Just sayin'
Aye! After I give 'im a few pints o' brew, I'll be askin' him 'bout that Hamatulastu style I got beat with...
There I've got to respectfully disagree. I don't see the 3.5 dwarves as "overpowered". Though I'm sorry to hear it made things difficult for you in your own gaming.
To be honest, if they weren't that overpowered, the problem players would find something else. Still, no need to make their life too easy.
Dwarves get too much in 3.5e: They get a bonus on one of the most powerful and versatile ability scores, get a penalty one the one that is the least useful (at least to powergamers who don't play a paladin or sorcerer - as we know they don't play bards), get a +2 bonus to most saving throws in the game (much of it is magic, and those who aren't are often poison). They also get weapon familiarity.
In essence, if you're powergaming, there's basically no reason not to go for dwarf if you want to play a fighter, since you get no disadvantage at all. And for many other classes, they're a too strong choice, too.
A "racist, sexist, rude sociopath"?
Yes.
racist: "Elves are vermin, and humans are little better. The rest doesn't matter, anyway."
sexist: "If it doesn't have a beard, it's not fit to be anything than a slave."
You get the idea. Have seen that so often. I broke several Sticks of Pain on these people.
Sorry to hear it. It sounds odd to me, though, as all the racist-sexist-sociopath characters I've seen played in D&D used to be half-orcs but have since become elves.
I have seen one particular player who played some of the most horrible elf characters, but other than that the elves were okay.
Seems that in my neck of the woods, the guys who enjoy playing antisocial characters and the powergamers are quite often the same.
Contributor
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Interesting discussion.
I can certainly see a player trying to justify playing a "racist" character based on being a dwarf, but like some others, I've seen it happen with elves a lot more often, both in D&D and in other fantasy sources. I'll support that with the claim that it has most often been elf rangers (remember when favoured enemies were racial enemies?), and dwarves don't typically make good rangers (and used to be forbidden from the class).
Still, I'd say that unfortunately D&D/Pathfinder support this kind of racism to a degree. Of course, it isn't quite the same as real world racism, since it's specieism or something like that. But the fact remains that on most fantasy RPGs it is okay to kill things and take their stuff as long as they are green-skinned. The line blurs further when you get into elf-dwarf relations etc.
As far as power-gamers playing dwarves, I'm a little surprised to hear that, since most power-gamers don't play fighters, and let's face it, the place where dwarves outshine humans is as fighters. I'd say though, that they only outshine humans when you already want to play a fighter that is typical of dwarf fighters. Of course, I know that you (Kaeyoss) don't subscribe to the belief that fighters are underpowered, but most power gamers seem to.
I also have to say that I don't really subscribe to the funny accent model of dwarves myself. I gather that started with Warcraft (maybe before) and I don't have anything particularly against it, but it's never quite done it for me, at least as a primary depiction. In many ways, I most often think of dwarves in a somewhat Roman context. Not that I want to dress them in togas, but the social and military structure match for me, and I like to play off that (while ignoring the overt trappings). One of my all-time favourite characters was a dwarf named Hadrius Breechblock (killed by my other brother) who was a siege engineer. He was a fighter rogue, and every night he built fieldworks around the party's campsite. That's how I see dwarves.
I can certainly see a player trying to justify playing a "racist" character based on being a dwarf, but like some others, I've seen it happen with elves a lot more often, both in D&D and in other fantasy sources.
I hear that all the time. It's just that my personal experience is quite different. While there are bad elf players, I've had more bad dwarf players, and they were more annoying to boot.
Still, I'd say that unfortunately D&D/Pathfinder support this kind of racism to a degree.
I don't know: PF seems to work against it. Elves of Golarion points out that there's no enmity between elves and dwarves, though it is at least in part because they have little enough to do with each other that they don't wearing on each others' nerves.
I certainly hope that DoG puts an end to all bad dwarf stereotypes (and I've been doing my part by deriding the racist dwarf in our RotRL group by pointing out that he's quite undwarven in his racist and beardist ways).
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Sadly, the number of decent roleplayers I've seen use dwarves is the minority. The majority is powergamers or people who want a convencient excuse to play a racist, sexist, rude sociopath. Usually it was both.
Tell me about it, KaeYoss. I live in a post-WFRP community which means that Elves are PANSY FEMININE SISSIES and Dwarves are REAL MEN, TRUE STUFF MADE OF BEER AND IRON !
The blame is on Games Workshop making Gotrek their equivalent of Drizzt and never coming up with a comparable Elven "iconic", but I'm somewhat jaded.
Granted one of my players took a novelty directiony with his Dwarf, making him a master cook and purveyor of exotic meal recpies (as opposed to usual "MOAR BEER !" apporach), but the problem persists. Here's to hoping Paizo dwarves break the stereotypes. You guys hit it perfect with Gnomes and very well with Elves.
Please, please no STUPID ass scottish accents.
Or any accents. I like dwarves, but I hate that moronic, WoW cast-off accent. This is one area that should have no influence from that source.
I have two types of dwarf players. People with meaningful stories and personalities, often focused on family or matters of duty and honor, OR dwarves with a ****ing accent.
Whoever writes it, no accents.
--
Can't wait for this book!
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I'll be dleighted to buy this when it comes out. Dwarves never seem to get the respect they deserve in RPGs.I don't know. They've been overpowered in 3.5e, gods know why - maybe to make them more attractive to players.
All it achieved was to make them more attractive to powergamers.
Sadly, the number of decent roleplayers I've seen use dwarves is the minority. The majority is powergamers or people who want a convencient excuse to play a racist, sexist, rude sociopath. Usually it was both.
Hi KaeYoss,
I had a similar series of bad encounters with elf players back in the 2e days. Elves seemed to be the minmaxer race of choice in those days, and the obnoxious players seemed to love them.
Personnaly, I love dwarves. I love to play them, and I love to read about dwarf characters. I like the positive aspects of the race: courage, loyalty, love of ale, axes, and such.
I think the Scottish accent thing started with the R.A. Salvatore books. I more picture dwarves with Scandanavian or German accents myself, if at all.
Personnaly, I love dwarves. I love to play them, and I love to read about dwarf characters. I like the positive aspects of the race: courage, loyalty, love of ale, axes, and such.
Same here. They always reminded me of my relations, to tell you the truth, even in appearance to some extent -- short, stocky, blunt-yet-polite in speech, and as tough as rawhide.
I think the Scottish accent thing started with the R.A. Salvatore books. I more picture dwarves with Scandanavian or German accents myself, if at all.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I always figured on dwarves having accents like the Katzenjammer Kids. "Now ve go and vork in the mines for a day or three, den ve have de beer und schnitzel, ja?"
A definite must-add. I'll be interested in seeing what makes Golarion dwarves unique. I've always been a big fan of dwarves, despite the common gaming stereotypes that have haunted them for so long.
Or any accents. I like dwarves, but I hate that moronic, WoW cast-off accent. This is one area that should have no influence from that source.
The dumb accent is far older than WoW. They stole that themselves.
I had a similar series of bad encounters with elf players back in the 2e days. Elves seemed to be the minmaxer race of choice in those days, and the obnoxious players seemed to love them.
I knew ODP (obnoxious dwarf players) even in 2e.
The fun part is that in 3e, elves were not that overpowered, dwarves were, and the big "STOP THE DWARF POWERGAMING" wave someone didn't occur. To me, that shows that the "min-maxer" angle was just an excuse for elf-haters to bash elves.
I think it's all part of a big inferiority complex: Elves usually look good, those guys have spent years telling themselves that they're hideous nerds, so they hate the jocks. On the other hand, dwarves can be looked down on (literally and figuratively) by them - so they think - and so they're liked, as the Scapegoat race!
Personnaly, I love dwarves. I love to play them, and I love to read about dwarf characters. I like the positive aspects of the race: courage, loyalty, love of ale, axes, and such.
Courage is pretty much an universal trait. I see few if any standard races that aren't courageous.
Dwarven loyalty is usually to their clan and their traditions. Stuff that never makes sense to me. Traditions have to prove themselves to me before I become loyal to them, and as for family... the less said the better.
Alcoholism isn't really a virtue, I'd say.
And a love of wealth and weapons isn't something to be proud of, too.
A definite must-add. I'll be interested in seeing what makes Golarion dwarves unique.
Not hating elves, or anyone without a beard, would be more than enough. You'd probably not recognise them if they didn't flood that companion with pictures of beardy short fellas and write "DWARF" underneath.
If they can do a couple more unique things with them, they'll replace Moradin as the main D&D dwarf deity.
I've always been a big fan of dwarves, despite the common gaming stereotypes that have haunted them for so long.
Well, I for one, Kaeyoss, am convinced by your generalizations about people who play dwarves and understand that my self degradation is an embarrassment to both myself and those I play with.
I was foolish to think that it would be fun to add a little humanity to a hilarious and tired old stereotype!
In fact, I now think the term dwarf itself is demeaning to those who suffer from actual dwarfism and hereby swear to fight a battle everlasting against the munchkin nitwits who embrace this core race!
TO ARMS!
"Eh'd loch tae shaur e wee hoozlin' ditty wi' mah Khazak brethren, thocht frae enbred leid minin' clans 'ey main be."
...
"Ahem..."
...
<Singing now...>
"Oan th' fields ay Grivwhartle 'e dwarves ay Morebattle did faa.
Sooch battle 'ey waged,
Sooch coorage 'ey staged,
Ne'er seen by ye aw
'Ey answered 'e caaaaaaaawwwwwwwww!"
<Stig does a belly bouncing, grunting dance solo.>
"O' the bravest 'ey lost 'e dwarvest was Migweld MacKrackennnn!
'E charged en attacked
'Eir melons 'e cracked
'E dwarf 'e right smacked 'em
En left right he macked 'emmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!"
<Another solo...>
"But buck if he vied, when he shoods hae gain flied!
En 'e dragon ay Grath
Gae 'eem a bath
En in acid 'e fried
En 'at ale hoozlah diiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeed!
Lift yer tankards tae Migweld Mackrackennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!"
<On that last note Stig lifts his tankard and downs it in one gulp.>
Got I just can't stop myself.
The shame.
No fun shall be had around here.
Move along.
Awa' an bile yer heid!
I'll be dleighted to buy this when it comes out. Dwarves never seem to get the respect they deserve in RPGs.
Oh, we'll make sure that dwarves get plenty of respect in Pathfinder.
Well, I for one, Kaeyoss, am convinced by your generalizations about people who play dwarves and understand that my self degradation is an embarrassment to both myself and those I play with.
I was foolish to think that it would be fun to add a little humanity to a hilarious and tired old stereotype!
In fact, I now think the term dwarf itself is demeaning to those who suffer from actual dwarfism and hereby swear to fight a battle everlasting against the munchkin nitwits who embrace this core race!
TO ARMS!
Aye! To arms!
Ah ... what?
Aye! To arms!
Ah ... what?
Haha, now you must kill yourself!
(By the way, really think that halflings are boring...)GRU
Blasphemy! :shakesfist:
I'll be dleighted to buy this when it comes out. Dwarves never seem to get the respect they deserve in RPGs.Oh, we'll make sure that dwarves get plenty of respect in Pathfinder.
"Mammy seen ye lookin' at 'er striplin'. Ye ken she's nae abune a wee thigh crushin' wi' a humankin'. Aw in fin."
They can tak' oour lives, but they cannae tak' oour troousers!
I'll be dleighted to buy this when it comes out. Dwarves never seem to get the respect they deserve in RPGs.Oh, we'll make sure that dwarves get plenty of respect in Pathfinder.
For example, they have a lot of respect for kobolds, goblins, small children, ferrets, gnomes, the sun, water....
And with "respect", I mean of course "sheer abject terror"! :D
Is this really written by James Jacobs? Or is his name a stand-in again here? I remember James professing to not being the greatest dwarf fan on several occasions...
Is this really written by James Jacobs? Or is his name a stand-in again here? I remember James professing to not being the greatest dwarf fan on several occasions...
There are several different writers on this one.
Creative Director
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Is this really written by James Jacobs? Or is his name a stand-in again here? I remember James professing to not being the greatest dwarf fan on several occasions...
The authors are still being chosen, but since we had to put this up online before we nailed that part down, I got to be the placeholder; I'm not actually writing this one.
Is this really written by James Jacobs? Or is his name a stand-in again here? I remember James professing to not being the greatest dwarf fan on several occasions...The authors are still being chosen, but since we had to put this up online before we nailed that part down, I got to be the placeholder; I'm not actually writing this one.
Why not use a pseudonym as a place holder?
P Seu Donim or something
Is this really written by James Jacobs? Or is his name a stand-in again here? I remember James professing to not being the greatest dwarf fan on several occasions...The authors are still being chosen, but since we had to put this up online before we nailed that part down, I got to be the placeholder; I'm not actually writing this one.Why not use a pseudonym as a place holder?
P Seu Donim or something
Hmmm ... Sue D. Nihm would work :)
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The authors are still being chosen, but since we had to put this up online before we nailed that part down, I got to be the placeholder; I'm not actually writing this one.
You should only consider authors who are short. The author should not be tall. A tall author will not have the proper "perspective."
That is all.
Alan Smithee
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Contributor
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Why not use a pseudonym as a place holder?I'm not really sure why we don't use placeholders. Though I'd use "Author(s) to be announced" instead of a fake name.
Maybe I'll do that starting with the next batch.
I always assumed Amazon and such other places that need your publication schedule way in advance wanted actual names. Although I know some products get listed as written by "Paizo Staff."
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Dwarven loyalty is usually to their clan and their traditions. Stuff that never makes sense to me. Traditions have to prove themselves to me before I become loyal to them, and as for family... the less said the better.
Alcoholism isn't really a virtue, I'd say.
And a love of wealth and weapons isn't something to be proud of, too.
Dwarven loyalty is also loyalty to their friends and companions. A loyalty born of mutual respect, affection, and trust. Dwarves are often depicted risking and giving their lives in defense of their friends. That is admirable in my book.
There is a big difference between loving ale, and being addicted to it. In my mind loving ale means you enjoy it. Being an alcoholic means you need it.
Loving a well crafted weapon that you use to defend yourself in a world full of monsters with pointy teeth and terrible claws that would otherwise find you to be a soft snack makes perfect sense. Appreciating the craftsmanship and beauty in some of those weapons is admirable in my opinion.
I never said that love of wealth was admirable, but let's be honest here, a large component of the "fantasy" in D&D is seeking out wonderous treasures.
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Chief Technical Officer
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I always assumed Amazon and such other places that need your publication schedule way in advance wanted actual names. Although I know some products get listed as written by "Paizo Staff."Why not use a pseudonym as a place holder?I'm not really sure why we don't use placeholders. Though I'd use "Author(s) to be announced" instead of a fake name.
Maybe I'll do that starting with the next batch.
Yeah—It wouldn't surprise me if the solicitations we send out to book distribution need real names, but paizo.com sure doesn't.
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Is this really written by James Jacobs? Or is his name a stand-in again here? I remember James professing to not being the greatest dwarf fan on several occasions...The authors are still being chosen, but since we had to put this up online before we nailed that part down, I got to be the placeholder; I'm not actually writing this one.
Any luck with Ed Greenwood, Steven Schend, Eric Boyd or George "The Beardless One" Krashos? Sean and Craig would okay, too, I guess... ;P
Dwarven loyalty is also loyalty to their friends and companions. A loyalty born of mutual respect, affection, and trust. Dwarves are often depicted risking and giving their lives in defense of their friends.
When did that happen?
Let me ask you something: If the dwarf had to decide between his companion and his clan. What would be the default choice? His friends?
Nah, didn't think so, either. :P
Loving a well crafted weapon that you use to defend yourself in a world full of monsters with pointy teeth and terrible claws that would otherwise find you to be a soft snack makes perfect sense. Appreciating the craftsmanship and beauty in some of those weapons is admirable in my opinion.
Being happy and thankful that you're not molested by kobolds is one thing. Rubbing the weapon all day and going "my precious" is creepy.
I know a guy who likes weapons - and we count the days until he snaps and lays waste to his former school.
I never said that love of wealth was admirable, but let's be honest here, a large component of the "fantasy" in D&D is seeking out wonderous treasures.
I often hear people bash D&D based on this. It's one thing to acknowledge that it's popular to go adventuring for greed. It's another to have a race that is proud of that trait and devotes most of their art to it.
I'm not really sure why we don't use placeholders. Though I'd use "Author(s) to be announced" instead of a fake name.
A compromise, maybe?
Toby Announced!
YES!! *happy_dance*
This should replace my 2nd edition book that I've been making totally dogeared. That damn book looked like it had more wear and tear on it than a rental car at O'Hare International.
I can't wait.
For some odd reason, there seems to be a quality explosion in the mass majority of Paizo releases, which is awesome. I remember the mid 90's of TSR were plagued by Red Steel and a few other not too great ideas amid the "I thought" awesomeness of Planescape.
Which to others, Planescape was where we snagged story-happy emo types from local d10 games, muwhahahaha.
Thank you, Paizo, for giving me a reason to find a second job amid the gaming!