Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Hooray! Another Hugh Cook fan!
The first third of The Walrus and the Warwolf was published by Roc in 1991, but subsequent volumes never appeared.
I too managed to buy the book on a trip to the UK, but I managed to fill in the whole set over subsequent trips taken by myself and friends.
I am really hoping people dig this book. Those who love it tend to LOVE it.
I've not read any of Hugh Cook's stuff, but I have read about it (the series this is from sounds incredible). The fact you have China Mieville doing the introduction is simply awesome. I love his stuff. I'm really excited for this one.
Im a Hugh COOK freak and fellow NZer and have had a bit of a correspondence with him over the years.
I converted Walrus and Warwolf to D and D as as epic adventure.
With the stats of all the main characters-
Ish ulpin, Drake , the Walrus and of course Andranavory and Whale Mike.
I could convert that adventure to Pathfinder and send it out to persons if people were interested .
Ive read all the books several times and am thinking of converting all of them into some sort of epic adventure path...
If only I could figure out how to work the magic system...
your thoughts...
This is book four of the Age of Darkness series. Is it a stand-alone, or do you need to have read the first three.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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You absolutely do not need to read any of the other books to get the full experience from this one.
The way Cook's Chronicles series works is that each book is stand-alone, but usually one of the books shares a specific scene with another book in the series, and a few characters pop up more than once. It's more of an Easter egg sort of thing.
For example, in The Walrus & the Warwolf, the main character Drake joins a pirate crew. Shortly after joining the crew, he meets another young man named Forester, a stow-away on the boat. They have a brief conversation and then the boat is attacked by a monster. Forester is thrown overboard, and is never heard from again. The whole scene lasts about 5 pages.
It turns out, "Forester" is really the main character in the SECOND book, which includes the same scene from HIS point of view (where Drake is the stranger). You wouldn't even notice if you hadn't read the second book, and if you had, you'd find it was a neat surprise.
You do NOT need to know any of the other books to get the full experience from this one.
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I’d second Erik’s comments. This book is very much a stand-alone story (though I’d encourage you to try to track down the others in the series, to learn the stories of various characters who turn up as supporting cast in this one), and not having read the first three books should not curtail your enjoyment of this one.
I think when I first read the series the order was something like 2, 1, 6, 3, 4, 7, 5, 8, 9, 10.
Saw all the books in a second hand bookstore today.
6 $ Australian each. Book store is in Narrabeen on Sydneys Northen beaches...
If anyone is near...
Who is the cover artist? That picture is amazing.
I remember discovering Cook on a trip to the UK back in the 80's. I picked up all the books I could find...but over the last thirty years managed to lose The Walrus & the Warwolf.
Now I need to convince the wife that we have the shelf space for this tome.
CJ
Kieran Yanner.
Who is the cover artist? That picture is amazing.
Yup! It's still Kieran, who's done all the covers since Ship of Ishtar. The dude's got a lot of range!
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Chief Technical Officer
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I remember discovering Cook on a trip to the UK back in the 80's. I picked up all the books I could find...but over the last thirty years managed to lose The Walrus & the Warwolf.
Now I need to convince the wife that we have the shelf space for this tome.
CJ
It should be just under an inch-and-a-quarter thick.
The paragraph "Never before published in a North American edition ..." appears twice in the product description. (The only difference is one lists some books China Miéville wrote.)
Also, what happened to the Planet Stories logo?
The paragraph "Never before published in a North American edition ..." appears twice in the product description. (The only difference is one lists some books China Miéville wrote.)
Also, what happened to the Planet Stories logo?
Fixed!
The Planet Stories logo is still on the back cover and the table of contents/title page, but we decided it would be good to give more front cover space to art, especially since we're getting such awesome images! I can't wait for everyone to see some of the covers we have coming up....
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Im a Hugh COOK freak and fellow NZer and have had a bit of a correspondence with him over the years.
I converted Walrus and Warwolf to D and D as as epic adventure.
With the stats of all the main characters-
Ish ulpin, Drake , the Walrus and of course Andranavory and Whale Mike.
I could convert that adventure to Pathfinder and send it out to persons if people were interested .
Ive read all the books several times and am thinking of converting all of them into some sort of epic adventure path...
If only I could figure out how to work the magic system...
your thoughts...
I'd be interested!
Yeah, the magic system is hard, I've thought about it from several different angles.
Wizards should probably just be wizards, but do you give each order its on prestige class? Or just one 'Wizard of the Confederation' base class or prestige class, with variants for each order? Is each order a group of specialist wizards? And if so are they by the book specialists or do you create new specialty groups? Orders like Arl and Xluzu are probably easy enough (evokers and necromancers) but what about an order like Nin (who would probably need spells from the druid list)? How do you treat things like the Sleeping Secrets?
Sorcerers / Wonderworkers could probably just be sorcerers, or they could be something like Binders from the 3.5 Tome of Magic.
Clerics maybe either get no spells if they worship a major god, or can cast spells in / near their temple if they worship a demon or minor god ... but this doesn’t make cleric a very feasible adventuring class.
Probably scrap paladins, use a non-spell casting ranger variant, not sure about bards and druids ...
I feel pretty meh about getting a book with a missing page and I feel pretty icky that a good number of people will only find out after they have bought the book.
With this and other recent printing hiccups, I am a bit concerned about this continuing with other products. If a page of the APG is missing, will it just be called good enough and sold anyway? If the covers of the Bestiary 2 are curved such that it can't lie flat, will it still be sold at full price?
I wouldn't have really thought that these would happen, but it is a bit worrying that the a printer can make this mistakes and still leave them to be passed on toward the customers
Blazej: Did I miss something? What missing page?
I'm just about finished with The Wizards and the Warriors and was getting excited for this to come.
EDIT: I found it. :-(
Trust me, nobody's more disappointed about this than us. (The only thing worse than getting a book with a missing page is getting several thousand books with a missing page...)
I believe that at this point, it's too late to do much more than the PDF - things are already out to the bookstores, etc. - but we're definitely exploring our options and seeing what's still feasible!
Thanks for understanding, and sorry for the inconvenience... you can bet that we're taking steps to make sure it never, ever happens again.
Wow. I was actually signing onto this thread to beg you guys to publish the rest of the series, but hearing about the missing page makes me really sad.
I was really excited about getting this book as part of my subscription and reading it as soon as possible. I feel like I can't start the book now.
I fully support Paizo for publishing these books but I can't help but feel gypped. I hope the COMPLETE book gets published soon.
I don't suppose there is any chance that these could be reprinted, and people could exchange the misprinted copies for complete ones?
I just found out about the missing pages. Page 189 cleared up some confusion for me, I reread that section several times and couldn't figure out what was happening. I am more than halfway through right now (They are traversing the Penvash Peninsula). I don't know if I would have stuck with it after the first 50 pages if I wasn't reading all of the Planet Stories books cover to cover.
I am now a little more interested in other books in Hugh Cook's repertoire. Although a check at Amazon only reveals 4 of his other titles and two at $30-50.
I just found out about the missing pages. Page 189 cleared up some confusion for me, I reread that section several times and couldn't figure out what was happening. I am more than halfway through right now (They are traversing the Penvash Peninsula). I don't know if I would have stuck with it after the first 50 pages if I wasn't reading all of the Planet Stories books cover to cover.
I am now a little more interested in other books in Hugh Cook's repertoire. Although a check at Amazon only reveals 4 of his other titles and two at $30-50.
Don't just check Amazon, check you friendly local used bookstore. I scored several volumes for cheap.
So, just to mention the elephant in the room ...
I'm assuming this was an error on the Paizo side, since there's been no mention of going after the publisher? Or is the publisher one of those "publish at your own risk, ye scurvy varmits" kind of places?
Edit: I ask because, well, while I'm very supportive of Paizo and very understanding that errors happen - this means that now I've got two subscription items with serious defects - the Adventurer's Armory and this book, and there's been no mention of any sort of compensation for all the people who paid full price expecting a NON-defective item.
So, just to mention the elephant in the room ...
I'm assuming this was an error on the Paizo side, since there's been no mention of going after the publisher? Or is the publisher one of those "publish at your own risk, ye scurvy varmits" kind of places?
Edit: I ask because, well, while I'm very supportive of Paizo and very understanding that errors happen - this means that now I've got two subscription items with serious defects - the Adventurer's Armory and this book, and there's been no mention of any sort of compensation for all the people who paid full price expecting a NON-defective item.
Shh! The elephant is shy! He hates being mentioned.
...seriously, though, the honest answer is that sometimes bad things happen to good publishers. In some cases, it's clearly the fault of the printer, and you can go after them for recompense, as you mentioned. Just as often, though, it's technology to blame, and when things go wrong in the aether between publisher and printer... well, that gets messy. The long and short of it is that we found out about the problem after the book had already been shipped, and we aren't in a financial position to reprint thousands of books.
All of that said, it's of course important to us to keep our customers happy, and especially our subscribers! If you want to contact customer.service@paizo.com, they'll get things smoothed over for you. But it's my hope that, given how awesome Walrus is, folks will understand about the problem and decide to download the missing pages so that they can finish the story. And you can bet that we've already taken steps to help make sure that these sorts of errors never, ever happen again.
As Sean's fond of pointing out... even birth control isn't 100% guaranteed. :-\
It sounds like several of you have read many to all of the other 9 (wow 60 were planned, wow!). I will soon acquire the first two at reasonable prices (for a lot less than the $30-50 you see on Amazon). I sort of like Arabin lol Arabin now, but really wouldn't want 9 more of his journeys. It sounds like other books stay with other characters that are briefly seen in the other books. So, I suspect if I acquire all 9 others I will meet Plovey and maybe that lonely guy they met when traveling through the Doors.
Is there an order to read (or acquire) them? I tend to prefer publishing chronology. Assuming I have any control over acquisition.
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For the most part you can probably read them in any order. I’ll give some more detail below spoilers for the sensitive:
It’s been a while since I’ve read The Walrus and The Warwolf, so I’m a bit hazy on which minor characters pop up and which other books they feature in. Book 1 focuses on (amongst other characters) Miphon and Morgan Hearst, who I think both show up towards the end of Book 4. Book 2 focuses on ‘Forester’, who Drake meets briefly aboard the Warwolf. I can’t remember if the major character(s) from Book 3 (particularly Yen Olass) show up in Book 4. Book 5 concentrates on ‘Watashi’ (is he in Book 4?) and yes, Plovey gets a look in in this book as well.
Books 6 and 7 are set some time before books 1 to 5 (as far as I can tell), and in a completely different location (the island nation of Untunchilamon, an ocean away from Argan). You should probably read these two in order (6 then 7), as they deal with the same characters in the same location, and events of book 6 influence events of book 7. A few minor characters from the first 5 books do show up in these ones – Zozimus, Hostaja Sken Pitilikin, Guest Gulkan, and Log Jaris I think from memory.
Books 8 and 9 are set on two different continents again, and are fairly disconnected from the previous books. The Werewolf and the Wormlord is set in Yestron (Wen Endex to be precise) and deals somewhat with the nature of Doors. One of the major characters from Books 6 and 7 puts in a fairly minor appearance in this book (and it is set after the events of those two books). The Worshippers and the Way is set on a southern continent (name escapes me, starts with P and Dalar Ken Halvar is the capital – Drake briefly goes there through a door). It is fairly unconnected to the other books but picks up on some themes explored in books 6 and 7.
Book 10 is the story of Guest Gulkan (who shows up at one point or another in almost all of the previous books – I think he might be the lonely guy through the Doors that you mentioned), I’d probably read this one last if you can, but it’s not really essential.
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In the face of all the glory being heaped on Cook's The Walrus and the Warwolf, I feel compelled to add an opposing opinion. Simply put, I'm finding it really hard to understand the love for this book and I've put it down for Many Wade Wellman. The narrative is like reading a sociopath's stream of consciousness acid dream. I'll give Cook a little credit as a writer for being able to make a story seem completely disjointed even when it is not. Unfortunately, I found nothing remotely compelling about any character or their story. Finally, when it came down to make sport of rape, I just couldn't continue. I can understand appreciating the novelty of the narrative but, really, this just isn't a book for me and it won't be going on my shelf.
In the face of all the glory being heaped on Cook's The Walrus and the Warwolf, I feel compelled to add an opposing opinion. Simply put, I'm finding it really hard to understand the love for this book and I've put it down for Many Wade Wellman. The narrative is like reading a sociopath's stream of consciousness acid dream. I'll give Cook a little credit as a writer for being able to make a story seem completely disjointed even when it is not. Unfortunately, I found nothing remotely compelling about any character or their story. Finally, when it came down to make sport of rape, I just couldn't continue. I can understand appreciating the novelty of the narrative but, really, this just isn't a book for me and it won't be going on my shelf.
Yep, I really did not enjoy this book a great deal either. The characters were cartoons, the plot rambling. The dialogue was occasionally funny, but too often missed the mark completely. The book just ...ended... all at once, either 25 pages too soon or 200 pages too late, depending.
In addition, I dont think I really found any of the characters at all likeable, save perhaps Jon Arabin. Faced with all that, when a few sentences/paragrapsh/pages went missing around the last 2-3 illustrations, I was not terribly worried that I was missing anything.
One last thing - is it just me, or does Drake shrug off a bodkin in the testicles with no lasting ill effect, or complaint? I would have thought that might have had a bit of an impact on Drake, but its like it must have been in a dream because it happens, and is then ignored.
So, two stars for me. This stuff is not really why I subscribed to Planet Stories.
For the most part you can probably read them in any order. I’ll give some more detail below spoilers for the sensitive: ** spoiler omitted **...
Thanks Mothman, that was the information I was really looking for. Elf_NFB and jmidd, I understand what you are saying. I never really cared for Drake throughout the book, but I did enjoy some aspects of it.
And I hope most of the other first 4 (mentioned by Mothman in his spoilers) are not as psychopathic as Drake.
For the most part you can probably read them in any order. I’ll give some more detail below spoilers for the sensitive: ** spoiler omitted **...Thanks Mothman, that was the information I was really looking for. Elf_NFB and jmidd, I understand what you are saying. I never really cared for Drake throughout the book, but I did enjoy some aspects of it.
And I hope most of the other first 4 (mentioned by Mothman in his spoilers) are not as psychopathic as Drake.
Of course, this is not the first time I have been forced to read a book due to Paizo. Erik Mona "tricked" me into reading Clark Ashton Smith's first collection of short stories. And then the Second ...
Thank you Erik.
Of course, this is not the first time I have been forced to read a book due to Paizo. Erik Mona "tricked" me into reading Clark Ashton Smith's first collection of short stories. And then the Second ...
Thank you Erik.
James Malizewski tricked me into it, and now I am waiting for The Last Enchantment later this year.
Also, back to W&W - after Virgil Finaly art in Ship of Ishtar, dont bother if you cant get good art.
So, two stars for me. This stuff is not really why I subscribed to Planet Stories.
It's definitely not for everyone's tastes, and something of an experiment on our part, but rest assured that the current schedule should be much more toward your tastes if you like the more classic-feeling Planet Stories books!
Hmm. I'm into the second Hugh Cook book in the series, and so far, it's grabbing me even more than the first one did.
Just finished Cook's The Questing Hero (volume 2.1 of the American reckoning). From the back cover:
"WELL-CRAFTED...THOROUGHLY ENJOYABLE.
I happily recommend it to everyone who enjoys
the wonderment of magical worlds where only
pure fantasy roams."
--Gary Gygax
EDIT: For this one, I kind of wish I had a Hierarch of G'n Super-Naturalism.
Does anyone else think something COMPLETELY inappropriate every time he sees this dude's name on the Paizo index page?
I picked the book up at Paizocon and finally finished reading it a few days ago. I definitely enjoyed it, despite the fact that it's definitely unconventional. The introduction by China Mieville definitely helped prepare me for the book's tone, which was a good thing, even if it did spoiler some of the major plot points.
My final rating is four and a half stars out of five. It might very well be one of the best fantasy novels I've read and I'm considering trying to track down the other ones in the series.
Does anyone else think something COMPLETELY inappropriate every time he sees this dude's name on the Paizo index page?
Yes - disturbing is it not?
HC is one of my favourite authors, I am wondering if the Wizards and the Warriors would have been a better introduction to Hugh Cook as it is slightly more "traditional" in its story than the The Walrus and the Warwolf.
The Walrus & the Warwolf is the best book in the series so I can see why you want people to have his best work. Its a hard choice.
In the face of all the glory being heaped on Cook's The Walrus and the Warwolf, I feel compelled to add an opposing opinion. Simply put, I'm finding it really hard to understand the love for this book and I've put it down for Many Wade Wellman. The narrative is like reading a sociopath's stream of consciousness acid dream. I'll give Cook a little credit as a writer for being able to make a story seem completely disjointed even when it is not. Unfortunately, I found nothing remotely compelling about any character or their story. Finally, when it came down to make sport of rape, I just couldn't continue. I can understand appreciating the novelty of the narrative but, really, this just isn't a book for me and it won't be going on my shelf.So, two stars for me. This stuff is not really why I subscribed to Planet Stories.
Elf_NFB, jmidd,
I am a bit behind in my reading, but considering indeed the praise this "not really Planet Stories" book has gathered on this thread, I shall side with you.
My problem is not really that I dislike the book, it just reads like cheap fantasy to me. It is sort of enjoyable at times with the risqué but not overtly vulgar references. I also enjoy reading a book with words properly written in British English and British slang.
That being said, this is not what "Planet Stories" should be about.
Have you already run out of 1940-1970s forgotten materials?
I thought the line was to be more like digging for forgotten jewels of a distant past, some kind of reading list or guide to Science Fiction, Fantasy (or mix of the two) from the olden days.
Please do not get into the "this is a classic" argument, because what is "classic" to one can read as utter rubbish to many. It is all a matter of taste.
From the late Hugh Cook's own admission, this book series was a commercial failure at the time, and from what I have gathered he did not really create a new genre either.
The only apparent reason for this book to be in the "Planet Stories" line is that it was out of print, or never in print, in the USA. Well, I live in England, so allow me to be selfish.
Now, books like "Who Fears the Devil", "Robots Have No Tails", "Black God's Kiss", and many more have indeed their place in the "Planet Stories" line as I understand it.
Again the "Walrus and the Warwolf" is not that dire, it just does not seem to belong here.
Please do not get into the "this is a classic" argument, because what is "classic" to one can read as utter rubbish to many. It is all a matter of taste.
There you have the rub.... some people are going to love it (me) some people are going to find it ok (you) and some are going to hate it (Elf_NFB)... So does your sense of taste or Elf's sense of taste invalidate it as a book loved by others I think not.
There are books that both of you cherish that I would not give 2 seconds of my time. If a book I didn't know came out and I purchased it based on reviews from here and then found it was not to my taste, I would be disappointed that I did not like it. I would also understand that others would enjoy it and not have it on the list.
The book came out in the late 80's I remember reading them in my last years of High school - how far back in time do you think paizo should explore?
I don't understand your reference to British slang Cook was from New Zealand?