Several of us believe that if we offered our GameMastery maps in PDF form, a significant number of gamers would choose the PDF edition exclusively over the print edition, which would mean smaller print runs for the print edition, which—since print costs are based largely on volume—would in turn mean higher costs for the print edition, which would lead to even smaller sales for it, which would mean we wouldn't have a profitable line anymore.Aw, that's EASY to answer.
PDFs are only available with subscription. Then you likely have the opposite result.
Though you would probably have to listen about lots of complaints about how the PDFs are not available without a subscription. To which you can answer, "that's the benefit of having a subscription."
I completely agree with you. That's a great idea, and would actually make subscribing worth it.
Several of us believe that if we offered our GameMastery maps in PDF form, a significant number of gamers would choose the PDF edition exclusively over the print edition, which would mean smaller print runs for the print edition, which—since print costs are based largely on volume—would in turn mean higher costs for the print edition, which would lead to even smaller sales for it, which would mean we wouldn't have a profitable line anymore.Aw, that's EASY to answer.
PDFs are only available with subscription. Then you likely have the opposite result.
Though you would probably have to listen about lots of complaints about how the PDFs are not available without a subscription. To which you can answer, "that's the benefit of having a subscription."
Vic already shot me down once with this idea but I still think it should be done.
Question about the flip-mats: These are folded, yes? When unfolded, do they lay flat? I purchased a (non-Paizo) folded map a few years back, and the thing is virtually unusable because the creases are so stiff that the unfolded map ends up crisscrossed with ridges.
Thanks!
They do flatten out, when my map arrives, like my Forest map did today, I take it out of the packing and lay it on a table I have, lay a board over it (piece of plywood scrap I had left over), then put some of my heavier books on top of that. I am not sure how fast it works, because I often forget about these over night, but when I get it the next day it lays flat, not perfectly, but well enough. The laminate holds the crease fold better than I would like, but I have been happy enough with them that I own the whole line.
I always refold the map "against" the folds that come with it, which works pretty quickly and leaves you with a flat, usable map in a matter of seconds.
That does indeed work, it just seemed to make the creases even more obvious, which in turn detracts from the terrain's "realism", so I do my best to just flatten out the creases, and I am fortunate enough to have a good storage space for these, so I never have to fold them again.
For people who don't tend to be "obsessive", which I do, folding the creases back on themselves probably works fine.
That does indeed work, it just seemed to make the creases even more obvious, which in turn detracts from the terrain's "realism", so I do my best to just flatten out the creases, and I am fortunate enough to have a good storage space for these, so I never have to fold them again.For people who don't tend to be "obsessive", which I do, folding the creases back on themselves probably works fine.
So I assume the game sessions are held at your home?
I want to get some of these, and would prefer to flatten out the creases as much of possible and leave the maps flat, but we game at my DM's home and it would be a pain to transport them if I left them flat.
Can anyone confirm if holding down the corners and edges with Blu-Tack affects the laminate?
Not in my experience--I attach map cards to flip maps with blutack and haven't noticed any problems. I do be sure to remove it after I'm done however (just because blutack left around on something tends to get funky no matter what).
BUT--the laminate makes the blutack stickyness only so effective. It works for the map cards but I think it's not so good for sticking flip maps to the table (but I honestly haven't tried).
We usually just pin down the corners of stubborn maps with unrefrigerated cans of Mountain Dew, or I lay books over top of the map while setting up, and usually by the time I need the map, the map has flattened itself sufficiently.
That does indeed work, it just seemed to make the creases even more obvious, which in turn detracts from the terrain's "realism", so I do my best to just flatten out the creases, and I am fortunate enough to have a good storage space for these, so I never have to fold them again.For people who don't tend to be "obsessive", which I do, folding the creases back on themselves probably works fine.
So I assume the game sessions are held at your home?
I want to get some of these, and would prefer to flatten out the creases as much of possible and leave the maps flat, but we game at my DM's home and it would be a pain to transport them if I left them flat.
I have not folded the creases back upon themselves repeatedly like you would have to in your situation, but as long as that has no long term effect I suspect, unless your as obsessive as I am, you will find the maps work fine, as long as they hold up to repeated back folding to get them flat.
Now as the other poster suggests, get the maps flattened out ASAP once you get there with something to weight them down, etc... and you will likely get them flat enough in time that way.
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Is there any thought to putting out a "Museum" Flip-Mat? As in a "Blakros Museum" Flip-Mat? I love using the Flip-Mats when I run Pathfinder Society games, and the Blakros Museum has now been featured in several Society Scenarios--and could easily be featured in several future ones as well. The maps and layout are already done, and could be the main floor on one side and the basement on the other. How about it, powers that be?
Chief Technical Officer
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Jerami, have you contact customer support about the issue in your review? I would imagine that it is a accident and not a intent. I just can't imagine Paizo shipping them all seperately like that.
We have been in touch with him already.
And actually, we *would* ship three Flip-Mats in two separate packages, because that's the cheapest option that still allows us to provide a reasonable amount of protection to the merchandise.
He's correct that the USPS offers a Priority Mail envelope that costs $4.95 to ship within the US, but the problem is that you have to use a particular USPS-provided envelope that's made of a very thin non-rigid cardboard, offering virtually no protection to the contents. We tried using them for a while several years ago, and the number of damaged shipments was just too high, so we've only used boxes for Priority Mail for a very long time now.
We can mail up to two Flip-Mats in a single standard mail parcel, but adding a third would put it over the standard mail weight limit, so we split it into one parcel with two mats and another parcel with one mat, and even though it's two packages, it really does still cost less than one Priority Mail box big enough to fit three Flip-Mats.
Lisa, Vic, or any other Paizo people;
...
While I understand your rational on making PDFs of these products, has there been any thought to releasing them as PNGs, or something similar, so they can be used in VTT software?
I still think it should be a subscriber-only perk, but they seem to be dead set against making softcopy versions of the GameMastery maps. Not the map folios, for some reason, just the GameMastery maps.
In any case, I'd find them HUGELY helpful; having softcopy would let me create a key for dungeon layers, etc. Nowadays, I have to scout around the various Paizo products and web pages and see if they happened to include an image of the flip mat or the map pack map somewhere.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Any chance the older map packs will be redone in the new format?
Nope. That would run afoul of most of the problems mentioned here.
As a further comment on the softcopy thing.
These days, what the Paizo folks do as far as showing teeny previews of both sides of the map with a huge SAMPLE on it is perfect for my needs - all I want to do is be able to print it out and put a dungeon key on it.
Huzzah!
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Chief Technical Officer
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As a further comment on the softcopy thing.
These days, what the Paizo folks do as far as showing teeny previews of both sides of the map with a huge SAMPLE on it is perfect for my needs - all I want to do is be able to print it out and put a dungeon key on it.
Huzzah!
Your specific input was definitely considered as we worked out how best to handle previews. Thanks!
Your specific input was definitely considered as we worked out how best to handle previews. Thanks!As a further comment on the softcopy thing.
These days, what the Paizo folks do as far as showing teeny previews of both sides of the map with a huge SAMPLE on it is perfect for my needs - all I want to do is be able to print it out and put a dungeon key on it.
Huzzah!
Wow. Just ... wow.
Got the e-mail and I'm of the belief "Why wasn't this done already?!". It's a great idea. I have 5 separate subscriptions to Paizo products and only recently subbed to the maps. I've bought plenty of Gamemastery maps off of other websites, like Amazon at a much cheaper rate than what Paizo.com offers. As a former deal-finder, I would have subscribed to maps a long time ago, if you had offered the maps as PDFs. Sometimes, I just need something quick, perhaps I want to use a part of the map over-top of the existing map.
I've always been able to do this with PDFs. But never with your maps, unless I buy pricey Gamemastery tiles, or cut out some gaming paper. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE your physical maps.
"we've always said that we're worried that a significant number of gamers choosing the PDF edition exclusively could hurt our ability to continue producing printed maps."
So make it just for subscribers, then?
If anything, you're going to be selling to some new audience members that normally would be buying PDF Maps from companies like Rite Publishing (Fantastic Maps), d20 Cartographer, LPJ Design, etc. There is a market of e-Buyers that don't go into their FLGS. Sometimes, especially in winter, I'm guilty of that; as I'm sure many subscribers are.
TLDR: I subscribe to Paizo's offers AND buy from your online store for two reasons alone (instead of Amazon, or eBay; which are normally much cheaper). You give me PDF's of the products I buy through subscription, you make them available to me when you ship the product out.
You continue to expand that line of thinking to other products, I will continue to make you a small fortune every month.
I would be fine with making PDFs only available through subscription, or producing the PDFs for a higher premium rate. I.E. Map costs 12.99 and shipping, sell the PDF for 10.
I also say I would stick with the hard copy version.
Now if the PDF was part of the subscription then I can see many uses for it to coincide with the physical copy but not just PDF version for me.
Sean
This.
So make it just for subscribers, then?
Or this.
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As a subscriber too, I love the idea of getting a PDF along with our subscription. I see a number of uses for it. The quality of the printed flip-mats and map packs are such that I don't see offering a PDF to be a deterrent. As it is right now, I get a long-lasting and reusable map or tiles that are far more versatile than anything I could print.
To give you another perspective, I am also a store owner. I can easily get all of the products I have subscriptions for at the discounted cost through our distributors; however, thanks to your business model of including the PDFs, I have a chance to view the whole product a few days prior to receiving them in my store. Those few days are invaluable as it allows me the opportunity to speak better on your products when my customers come in. PDFs of the flip-maps and map packs would be added incentive in keeping the subscription in my case beyond my use of them as a player and GM.
Additionally, I don't believe I would lose any business selling these products either if PDFs are available. It's the durability and the special coating you use that the players in my store always talk about.
I've always been for this - I don't intend to use them for anything other than reference inside things like homebrew modules, but they will be very very useful in that regard.
On the other hand, not useful enough for me to spend *extra* on the PDFs - so congratulations to everyone who can now pull this stuff into Maptools (or whatever), and hopefully my day will come.
Though, frankly, I'm pretty satisfied with what they do now, which is publish full sample miniature images.
Just to second something brought up off topic in another thread:
This is a bit off-topic as to the monastery map, but a comment meant more broadly about flip-mats generally: though I love my Paizo flip-mats, one thing I haven't been able to find anywhere is a good map representing an alternate plane, specifically a fae/faerie realm with many-colored trees and standing stones in a forest setting or suchlike. The Extra-Dimensional Spaces map pack was pretty good for representing higher planes, but I would like to see more maps in other planes. I know I'd get a lot of use out of them in my 4E campaign, and I imagine this sort of thing would be helpful in other systems as well. Just a thought; regardless, I love my maps subscription!
+1
For example, an elemental flip mat (one side lava, one side scree - i.e. elemental plane of earth). Or ones that just have an otherworldly appearance like that map pack did.
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Chief Technical Officer
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A little earlier today, GameMastery Map subscribers received an e-mail indicating that the next two GameMastery Map products, Map Pack: Magic Academy and Flip-Mat: Haunted Dungeon will be offered in PDF form as well as in the traditional print form....
Here's what you need to know:
Many customers have asked Paizo to offer PDF editions of our GameMastery Maps products, and we've always said that we're worried that a significant number of gamers choosing the PDF edition exclusively could hurt our ability to continue producing printed maps
Well, we've decided to test that theory. The next two GameMastery Map products, Map Pack: Magic Academy (due this month) and Flip-Mat: Haunted Dungeon (due in July) will also be available in PDF form.
We've also decide to release the out-of-print GameMastery Maps in PDF form as well. The following products are now available:
- GameMastery Map Pack: Village PDF
- GameMastery Map Pack: Countryside PDF
- GameMastery Map Pack: Dungeon Chambers PDF
- GameMastery Flip-Mat: Tavern PDF
- GameMastery Flip-Mat: Woodlands PDF
Note that, because this is a test, the GameMastery Maps subscription benefits are not changing at this time. GameMastery Maps subscribers will continue to get 20% off the MSRP of each month’s map product, any previously released Flip-Mat or Map Pack (excluding backorders) at 15% off the cover price. The PDFs are not currently part of the subscription offer, and must be purchased separately.
After this test period, we'll revisit our plans regarding future GameMastery Map PDFs, and keep subscribers updated.
I really enjoy using your line of Flip-Maps.
Might I suggest one for consideration...One side a black star-field, and the other a blue-sky with clouds. It would be the perfect combo for arial and space combat scenarios.
-Erich
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Chief Technical Officer
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At the beginning of June, we launched a test, offering PDFs of selected GameMastery Flip-Mats and Map Packs for the first time.
Due to the success of this test, we will be offering the Flip-Mat and Map Pack PDFs on an ongoing basis, and we're now adjusting the GameMastery Maps subscription benefits to include free PDFs!
Before now, the subscription benefits for GameMastery Maps provided 20% off the MSRP of each month’s map product, plus the ability to purchase the print edition of any previously released Flip-Mat or Map Pack (excluding backorders) at 15% off the cover price.
As of now, the subscription benefits will be changing to match most of our other subscription lines: instead of a discount, the new subscriber benefit will be a free PDF of each new release shipped as part of your GameMastery Maps subscription.
For customers who subscribed to the GameMastery Maps line before this change was announced, we're going to grandfather in the 20% discount. That means that as long as they mantain their current GameMastery Maps subscription, they will recieve the free PDF and the 20% discount for each new release in their subscription. (Note that if they ever choose to cancel their GameMastery Maps subscription, the 20% discount will no longer be available to them, even if they resubscribe later.)
After the end of September, the 15% discount on previously released Flip-Mats and Map Packs will no longer be offered as a GameMastery Maps subscription benefit. Until 11:59 PM Pacific Time on September 30, though, subscribers—both new and old—may take advantage of that discount on previously released GameMastery maps.
Also, while our initial test for PDFs included only the latest Flip-Mat and Map Pack plus several out-of-print maps, we've decided to release our entire Flip-Mat and Map Pack catalog in PDF form. Keep checking the Map Packs Downloads and Flip-Mats Downloads pages over the next few months for new releases!
At the beginning of June, we launched a test, offering PDFs of selected GameMastery Flip-Mats and Map Packs for the first time.
.....
For customers who subscribed to the GameMastery Maps line before this change was announced, we're going to grandfather in the 20% discount. That means that as long as they mantain their current GameMastery Maps subscription, they will recieve the free PDF and the 20% discount for each new release in their subscription. (Note that if they ever choose to cancel their GameMastery Maps subscription, the 20% discount will no longer be available to them, even if they resubscribe later.)
.....
My leap of faith is well justified. Thanks for the hint Vic!
At the beginning of June, we launched a test, offering PDFs of selected GameMastery Flip-Mats and Map Packs for the first time.
Due to the success of this test, we will be offering the Flip-Mat and Map Pack PDFs on an ongoing basis, and we're now adjusting the GameMastery Maps subscription benefits to include free PDFs!
Before now, the subscription benefits for GameMastery Maps provided 20% off the MSRP of each month’s map product, plus the ability to purchase the print edition of any previously released Flip-Mat or Map Pack (excluding backorders) at 15% off the cover price.
As of now, the subscription benefits will be changing to match most of our other subscription lines: instead of a discount, the new subscriber benefit will be a free PDF of each new release shipped as part of your GameMastery Maps subscription.
For customers who subscribed to the GameMastery Maps line before this change was announced, we're going to grandfather in the 20% discount. That means that as long as they mantain their current GameMastery Maps subscription, they will recieve the free PDF and the 20% discount for each new release in their subscription. (Note that if they ever choose to cancel their GameMastery Maps subscription, the 20% discount will no longer be available to them, even if they resubscribe later.)
After the end of September, the 15% discount on previously released Flip-Mats and Map Packs will no longer be offered as a GameMastery Maps subscription benefit. Until 11:59 PM Pacific Time on September 30, though, subscribers—both new and old—may take advantage of that discount on previously released GameMastery maps.
Also, while our initial test for PDFs included only the latest Flip-Mat and Map Pack plus several out-of-print maps, we've decided to release our entire Flip-Mat and Map Pack catalog in PDF form. Keep checking the Map Packs Downloads and Flip-Mats...
Awesome!!! I have been waiting for this change! Thank you.
At the beginning of June, we launched a test, offering PDFs of selected GameMastery Flip-Mats and Map Packs for the first time.
Due to the success of this test, we will be offering the Flip-Mat and Map Pack PDFs on an ongoing basis, and we're now adjusting the GameMastery Maps subscription benefits to include free PDFs!
Before now, the subscription benefits for GameMastery Maps provided 20% off the MSRP of each month’s map product, plus the ability to purchase the print edition of any previously released Flip-Mat or Map Pack (excluding backorders) at 15% off the cover price.
As of now, the subscription benefits will be changing to match most of our other subscription lines: instead of a discount, the new subscriber benefit will be a free PDF of each new release shipped as part of your GameMastery Maps subscription.
For customers who subscribed to the GameMastery Maps line before this change was announced, we're going to grandfather in the 20% discount. That means that as long as they mantain their current GameMastery Maps subscription, they will recieve the free PDF and the 20% discount for each new release in their subscription. (Note that if they ever choose to cancel their GameMastery Maps subscription, the 20% discount will no longer be available to them, even if they resubscribe later.)
After the end of September, the 15% discount on previously released Flip-Mats and Map Packs will no longer be offered as a GameMastery Maps subscription benefit. Until 11:59 PM Pacific Time on September 30, though, subscribers—both new and old—may take advantage of that discount on previously released GameMastery maps.
Also, while our initial test for PDFs included only the latest Flip-Mat and Map Pack plus several out-of-print maps, we've decided to release our entire Flip-Mat and Map Pack catalog in PDF form. Keep checking the Map Packs Downloads and Flip-Mats...
Yet another benefit of being a subscriber. I don't know if I would ever really use the PDFs, but will they be available for all of the maps I purchased as a Maps subscriber?
Very nice addition!
Yet another benefit of being a subscriber. I don't know if I would ever really use the PDFs, but will they be available for all of the maps I purchased as a Maps subscriber?
I use them when writing adventures, primarily to create the keys for maps; I put the image in the document and then add numbers to it.
And I'm curious also - will subscribers get PDFs of the maps which they got as a subscriber, or will they have to purchase those PDFs?
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t will they be available for all of the maps I purchased as a Maps subscriber?
And I'm curious also - will subscribers get PDFs of the maps which they got as a subscriber, or will they have to purchase those PDFs?
We hope to eventually create PDFs for the maps previously released in the Maps Subscription line. While they will be available for purchase, the new benefit of the free PDF will not be granted retroactively.
The benefit at the time the older volumes were released was the 20% from current and 15% from the back catalog. There was already a benefit for subscribing at that time and we will not be applying the new benefit retroactively.
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Can anyone tell me what sort of postage costs a flip map and map pack would incur to the UK? Now that PDFs come free I am wondering whether to actually subscribe.
Is the price of the PDF likely to be more than the postage? If so it would be worth subscribing rather than buying the PDFs and buying the map packs locally.
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Can anyone tell me what sort of postage costs a flip map and map pack would incur to the UK? Now that PDFs come free I am wondering whether to actually subscribe.
Is the price of the PDF likely to be more than the postage? If so it would be worth subscribing rather than buying the PDFs and buying the map packs locally.
If you add a a flip-mat and/or a map pack to your cart you can input your address and see all of the estimated shipping costs and estimated shipping times associated with those items going to your address. Once you've got the information you need, you can just hit "continue shopping" or navigate away from the shopping cart instead of adding payment methods and processing the order.
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Chief Technical Officer
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If you add a a flip-mat and/or a map pack to your cart you can input your address and see all of the estimated shipping costs and estimated shipping times associated with those items going to your address. Once you've got the information you need, you can just hit "continue shopping" or navigate away from the shopping cart instead of adding payment methods and processing the order.Can anyone tell me what sort of postage costs a flip map and map pack would incur to the UK? Now that PDFs come free I am wondering whether to actually subscribe.
Is the price of the PDF likely to be more than the postage? If so it would be worth subscribing rather than buying the PDFs and buying the map packs locally.
One thing I will note is that Flip-Mats and Map Packs shipped by themselves don't qualify for the relatively inexpensive Bound Printed Matter shipping rates... but if you add enough books to outweigh the maps, it might qualify.
You may actually be able to save a fair amount of money on shipping if you add a book or two to your maps.
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One thing I will note is that Flip-Mats and Map Packs shipped by themselves don't qualify for the relatively inexpensive Bound Printed Matter shipping rates... but if you add enough books to outweigh the maps, it might qualify.
You may actually be able to save a fair amount of money on shipping if you add a book or two to you maps.
Thanks for the reply. Alas I have pretty much bought all the Pathfinder RPG books I am likely ever going to buy, the only things I will buying from now are maps and PFS scenarios.
However, I put a flip mat and map pack into my cart and got the postage and for either it works out at $18.19 which at today's exchange rates is about £11.55. Now buying a map pack or flip mat from FLGSs I would have to pay about £9.99 to £10.99 so its only a quid or so difference and I would get the PDF as well.
Am I right in saying that a subscription gives me a 15% discount on something or other?
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Chief Technical Officer
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Am I right in saying that a subscription gives me a 15% discount on something or other?
A Pathfinder Adventure Path subscription gives you the Pathfinder Advantage, which would give you 15% off of your maps (as well as about 20,000 other products).