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Paizo knows where at least the next 8 PAPs will be located on the map of Golarion. It wouldn't have taken an extra hour to the day to add them to the map as well. That is all I'm trying to say. It would have been nice for the map in the book to show all the PAPs instead of just those already published. It would have made the book seem 'fresher' until well into 2009.
Of course anything that talks about other products is going to be out of date in a month. There's nothing we could have done about that.
They haven't even finished planning the APs after #4 yet, as far as I know. And #5 would be in the early concept stages.
Contributor
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Paizo knows where at least the next 8 PAPs will be located on the map of Golarion. It wouldn't have taken an extra hour to the day to add them to the map as well. That is all I'm trying to say. It would have been nice for the map in the book to show all the PAPs instead of just those already published. It would have made the book seem 'fresher' until well into 2009.
Your arguments are flawed in that they don't take into account the reality of the situation when we sent the book to print (June 13th, at which time we barely knew where the next 6 AP adventures were going to be located, and certainly didn't know "at least the next 8"), nor the rest of the contents of the book (page 238 clearly sets the book in 4708 AR, which is 2008 in the real world). A campaign setting product exists at a certain time in that campaign setting's history, and this book exists in the late summer of 4708, and does not stretch into 4709.
I have nothing further to discuss on this subject. I made a decision and I stick by it. I appreciate that you would have made a different one, and I respect your non-flawed arguments, but I obviously disagree. And in the grand scheme of things, this is a relatively minor map whose importance scarcely warrants this level of discussion. (But since we're both gamers, it would be against our natures to not argue over minutia.) ;)
Your arguments are flawed in that they don't take into account the reality of the situation when we sent the book to print (June 13th, at which time we barely knew where the next 6 AP adventures were going to be located, and certainly didn't know "at least the next 8"), nor the rest of the contents of the book (page 238 clearly sets the book in 4708 AR, which is 2008 in the real world). A campaign setting product exists at a certain time in that campaign setting's history, and this book exists in the late summer of 4708, and does not stretch into 4709.
Flawed indeed. For some reason I thought the book was sent to the printer in early July. What a difference 30 days makes. You did put future PAPs on the map.
Director of Brand Strategy
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Flawed indeed. For some reason I thought the book was sent to the printer in early July. What a difference 30 days makes. You did put future PAPs on the map.
Your arguments are flawed in that they don't take into account the reality of the situation when we sent the book to print (June 13th, at which time we barely knew where the next 6 AP adventures were going to be located, and certainly didn't know "at least the next 8"), nor the rest of the contents of the book (page 238 clearly sets the book in 4708 AR, which is 2008 in the real world). A campaign setting product exists at a certain time in that campaign setting's history, and this book exists in the late summer of 4708, and does not stretch into 4709.
The start of Second Darkness is listed, as that went to the printer at the same time. But nothing beyond that is. Legacy of Fire, for example, was still being kicked around in James and Wes's heads at the time, so they could hardly pinpoint the locations of it, much less the titles of the books and such, on the map. Perhaps over time they'll update it on the web? If not, it's a reference book. Every edition of the encyclopedia or dictionary or whatever has something in it that changes after only a short period of time. Seems to me like you're trying to find a major flaw in something that is nearly the best RPG supplement in years, and this is the best you can do...
Seems to me like you're trying to find a major flaw in something that is nearly the best RPG supplement in years, and this is the best you can do...
It is not a flaw at all. I just spoke about something that would have been nice to see, and the basic idea was actually done with the information that Paizo had on hand when they laid out the book. The only difference is they had less information than I though they had. I'm hardly excoriating the book. No need to go blowing it out of proportion.
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Contributor
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For some reason I thought the book was sent to the printer in early July. What a difference 30 days makes. You did put future PAPs on the map.
Ah, now I see where the confusion came from. In the publishing industry 30 days can make a huge difference. I'm glad you're less unhappy about the map now. ^_^
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but I wouldn't ask them to do that and nor would I hold my breath.*Look of surprise* *starts breathing again*
DOH!!! I was hoping that would work!!!!
Well, for most people it doesn't. But since Andorens are such strong, hearty people, they can hold their breath longer than anyone else. So for them it usually works.
I'd suggest giving it a try again. And if you start to see spots, that just means the magic is working....
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but I wouldn't ask them to do that and nor would I hold my breath.*Look of surprise* *starts breathing again*
DOH!!! I was hoping that would work!!!!
Well, for most people it doesn't. But since Andorens are such strong, hearty people, they can hold their breath longer than anyone else. So for them it usually works.
I'd suggest giving it a try again. And if you start to see spots, that just means the magic is working....
hey... good ide...... Hey wait a second!!!!
Am I the only one irritated by the fact that if I want the pdf of the campaign setting I either have to order both or sign up for a subscription?
I mean don't get me wrong, I plan on ordering this book in the very near future, I just hate the idea of paying twice for one product.
Am I the only one irritated by the fact that if I want the pdf of the campaign setting I either have to order both or sign up for a subscription?
I mean don't get me wrong, I plan on ordering this book in the very near future, I just hate the idea of paying twice for one product.
You don't have to buy both or subscribe to get just the PDF.
If, however, you mean why don't you get the PDF for free when you buy the physical book, let me ask you this: What other RPG company gives free PDF's with the purchase of the physical book?
Getting the free PDF is a subscriber-only benifit and it's one of the most most cited perks of subscribing to the Pathfinder lines, along with the fact that they're great products.
Am I the only one irritated by the fact that if I want the pdf of the campaign setting I either have to order both or sign up for a subscription?
I mean don't get me wrong, I plan on ordering this book in the very near future, I just hate the idea of paying twice for one product.
If you plan on ordering in the very near future, you can subscribe and get both, no?
Am I the only one irritated by the fact that if I want the pdf of the campaign setting I either have to order both or sign up for a subscription?
I mean don't get me wrong, I plan on ordering this book in the very near future, I just hate the idea of paying twice for one product.
It may help to remember that the product subscriptions are not like magazine subscriptions that include a discount on the price. The only "financial" advantage to subscribing is the bonus pdf - or flipside, a bonus print product with your pdf subscription :)
I assume the advantage to Paizo is some slight increased predictability in how many copies they will sell.
I understand how you feel - I buy the Chronicles line separately and every once in a while get this "gak, no pdf!" feeling. It's human nature to covet what someone else gets for "free", but we should try not to :)
Edit: Congrats Paizo on how well this is selling at GenCon, but for gosh sakes save some copies for those of us who couldn't go!!
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Hi all -
I ordered PFRPG Beta from Paizo and have a Pathfinder subscription but I paid $21.24 plus $6.32 for shipping totaling $27.56.
I was going to order the Campaign Setting Hardcover for $42.49. I assume that I'll get my Pathfinder Subscription discount, making it roughly $39.00 plus I figure another $6.32 in shipping, making it $45.32.
I thought I'd check Amazon's prices and to my surprise the PFRPG Beta is listed at $16.49, the Campaign Setting is listed at $31.49, and I can order both for a grand total of $47.98 and receive free shipping on orders of $25. Thus I could receive both products for just about $3 more than just the Campaign Setting as purchased from Paizo.
I was under the impression that being a loyal customer and supporting Paizo helped Paizo, but they're the ones allowing Amazon to undercut even them. Yes I understand that it's another $10 or so to Paizo's bottom line but in today's economy I'm questioning whether or not it's in my best interest to order from Paizo and what does my subscription really save.
As such, I should be reciving my Beta version sometime next week, as per the e-mail, but I am seriously considering sending it back to Paizo and ordering from Amazon.
Thus what is the benefit to ordering from Paizo vs. Amazon? A more enhanced reason than "it helps Paizo, because that is more of the money pie that they get." The reason I find this is an unacceptable reason is that if this were the case, then the price offered at Amazon should be honored here at Paizo. I say this because if the book sells for nearly $5 less, someone is still getting into that pie - and instead of getting $10 from me and all the people that buy from Paizo and losing it to those that buy from Amazon, they could be keeping the whole amount by giving less reason to purchase elsewhere. I can understand the cost of $21/$25 at a gaming store - because that supports the local economy, the local gaming scene and so forth, but I don't see the reason for this price difference with an internet store in Paizo vs. Amazon.
--- Edit: Keeping the price near the price for a FLGS comparison and thus not undercutting the very people they want to be providing the game to (the local gaming market) is an invalid example as well, as then Amazon should not be allowed to undercut. And to say that they cannot tell Amazon what price to provide, is just wrong. In a way they can. They can sell it to Amazon for the same price that we would pay, or even just a little bit less. Yes, they can dictate the price, as buying WotC's mini's from Amazon is no longer cheaper than base sticker price (the first several sets were $10 on amazon while $15 at the store [or a similar price difference]).
If I purchase the CS via the subscription and I get the Free PDF, then the difference makes sense. But if I don't have subscription and just purchase the CS from Paizo - I don't get a benefit. Thus I'm suggesting that Paizo provide the PDF to any customers that purchase from Paizo and not Amazon - that this is what your $10 gives.
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I'm sure this has been raised before, but if it has then why hasn't the issue been addressed?
Thanks,
Issak
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Hi all -
I ordered PFRPG Beta from Paizo and have a Pathfinder subscription but I paid $21.24 plus $6.32 for shipping totaling $27.56.
I was going to order the Campaign Setting Hardcover for $42.49. I assume that I'll get my Pathfinder Subscription discount, making it roughly $39.00 plus I figure another $6.32 in shipping, making it $45.32.
Bought I thought I'd check Amazon's prices and to my surprise the PFRPG Beta is listed at $16.49, the Campaign Setting is listed at $31.49, and I can order both for a grand total of $47.98 and receive free shipping on orders of $25. Thus I could receive both products for just about $3 more than just the Campaign Setting as purchased from Paizo.
I was under the impression that being a loyal customer and supporting Paizo helped Paizo, but they're the ones allowing Amazon to undercut even them. Yes I understand that it's another $10 or so to Paizo's bottom line but in today's economy I'm questioning whether or not it's in my best interest to order from Paizo and what does my subscription really save.
As such, I should be reciving my Beta version sometime next week, as per the e-mail, but I am seriously considering sending it back and ordering from Paizo.
Thus what is the benefit to ordering from Paizo vs. Amazon? Without a reason being that it helps Paizo, because that is more of the pie that they get. The reason I find this an unacceptable reason is that if this were the case, then the price offered at Amazon should be honored here at Paizo. I say this because if the book sells for nearly $5 less, someone is still getting into that pie - and instead of getting $10 from me and all the people that buy from Paizo and losing it to those that buy from Amazon, they could be keeping the whole amount by giving less reason to purchase elsewhere. I can understand the cost of $21/$25 at a gaming store - because that supports the local economy, the local gaming scene and so forth, but I don't see the reason for this price difference with an internet store in Paizo vs. Amazon....
They can't control Amazon's price. Also, they don't want to undercut FLGSs, which are what get the product in front of people's eyes, and if Paizo undercuts them too much, it hurts both.
Are there copies left in the warehouse? :)
Elorebaen aka desperate for a copy
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Chief Technical Officer
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...Amazon should not be allowed to undercut. And to say that they cannot tell Amazon what price to provide, is just wrong. In a way they can. They can sell it to Amazon for the same price that we would pay, or even just a little bit less.
We really can't do that—we don't sell anything to Amazon. Like almost everyone else in our industry, we sell all of our products through intermediate distributors, and Amazon—just like your local game store—buys from one of them. We sell to all distributors at pretty much the same price (there's a slight variation in price depending on whether or not that distributor can return unsold product), and we have no control over how much they charge retailers (including Amazon) or how much those retailers charge customers.
Further, there are laws in place to prevent manufacturers from dictating retailer pricing. We can set a suggested retail price—and we do—but we can't require anyone to respect it.
Believe me—I personally dislike that we're usually undercut by Amazon much more than you do.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Amazon is still posting a Sept8 release.
Is this still true for that particular distributor?
The FRCS release was updated though (and these pre-orders have already been shipped)
How Amazon comes up with their release dates is a complete mystery to us; their dates never seem to have any observable relationship with any dates we use.
I'm sorry but here goes some critic... You product quality its always 101% and I must note this in hopes for this to be the only case: The cover image -thou great as all WAR artwork- is a bit blurry... I can guess there was some problems with the resolution or something because it appears it was heavely edited to avoid pixels in the final print... So I hope this is a one time only, too bad it happened in the CS. Sorry pals but I had to comment it. Your quality is great so I hope this was an isolated event. Cheers for the rest of the work 5 stars granted!
...Amazon should not be allowed to undercut. And to say that they cannot tell Amazon what price to provide, is just wrong. In a way they can. They can sell it to Amazon for the same price that we would pay, or even just a little bit less.Believe me—I personally dislike that we're usually undercut by Amazon much more than you do.
Well, I for me the free PDF is godd enough for puchasing with Paizo, even if amazon has it cheaper.
Support your WebFGS! -and the publisher in this case-
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CEO
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I'm sorry but here goes some critic... You product quality its always 101% and I must note this in hopes for this to be the only case: The cover image -thou great as all WAR artwork- is a bit blurry... I can guess there was some problems with the resolution or something because it appears it was heavely edited to avoid pixels in the final print... So I hope this is a one time only, too bad it happened in the CS. Sorry pals but I had to comment it. Your quality is great so I hope this was an isolated event. Cheers for the rest of the work 5 stars granted!
Yep, I mentioned this in another thread. We didn't know until all the books were printed. :/ Oh well, crap happens. Hopefully it won't happen like that again!
-Lisa
Yep, I mentioned this in another thread. We didn't know until all the books were printed. :/ Oh well, crap happens. Hopefully it won't happen like that again!-Lisa
Jeps, missed the thread, I'm new to the posts. Well keep up the great work! And a personal thanks for all the effort on all of your work. Paizo's work.
Cheers -drinks down a glass of elven firewine-
Long time lurker....first time poster. The campaign setting IMO blows faerun and greyhawk out of the water by a long shot and I am only halfway through it. This campaign setting is now tied with my favourite fantasy setting of all time and that is Iron Kingdoms.
My one point that I can see is (and it may be addressed later in the book) is populations. The major settlements are given a population but there are is nothing that I have seen so far that address the total population, nor the racial backgrounds. if that is addresed later then please ignore this segment of my post.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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I love the layout - keeping most of the sections two-up (rather than split across non-facing pages) really reduces the page flipping required when using the book. This is one of the best campaign settings I've read, and while it can't rival Greyhawk for compact flavor, it certainly rivals it for the wow factor.
It's a nice touch to see so much RPG Superstar in the nooks and crannies of the book. It really shows how Paizo embraces their audience. I was of course especially pleased to see one of my entries making a brief appearance.
So far, my favorite parts are the countries. Each one is suitable for setting a campaign in. I'm champing at the bit to see an adventure path set in the distance north!
Will the map contained with this book actually come out? When i recieved the Gazateer the map within was bound into the book with the rest of the pages and i was seriously disapointed.
The map for this one is not bound into the book. It is easily removable.
Random smurfing!
I'd just like to add that this is an outstanding product. The Pathfinder setting does Dungeons & Dragons better the Dungeons & Dragons itself does.
Chris Nichols
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After I bought this book I brought it home and showed it to my sister. She was so stoked that she asked me to read her a chapter. Now I am reading aloud one country entery per night from the Inner Sea Region as a "bedtime story." It's so fun! We take turns reading enteries and laughing diabolically whenever a villain is mentioned, or putting on funny accents.
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After I bought this book I brought it home and showed it to my sister. She was so stoked that she asked me to read her a chapter. Now I am reading aloud one country entery per night from the Inner Sea Region as a "bedtime story." It's so fun! We take turns reading enteries and laughing diabolically whenever a villain is mentioned, or putting on funny accents.
I want to do that! (But with Jessica Alba)
I have flipped through it and am disappointed that it only seems to detail the countries ie the civilized bits (well except for the barbaric bits but you know what I mean). My old Greyhawk Gazetteer is only a thin volume but it has a bit at the back detailing forests, mountains & hills .... I loved the detail of the wilderness, What could be found in the Suss forest? what might lurk in the Vast Swamp etc etc
Come on guys where is the Wilderness!
(or did I miss it?)
Appendix D reveals what type of monsters you can find in what type of wilderness. Granted it's not horribly extensive (i.e. I've seen a forgotten realms product that had encounter tables for different forests and different mountain ranges and so on) but it works for it's purpose. Most of the encounters are in the EL 1-10 range which leaves things out for higher levels. Then again I would say anything higher than CR 13 shouldn't be a 'random' encounter by any stretch of the imagination.
As for the book: I love it. It's my baby. I've been wanting a replacement of the realms since 4e changes were hinted at and I knew Paizo would deliver after I read my first AP book. You guys have a rich world here and bah humbug to anyone who says it's 'generic' as they've obviously never read the gazetteer or the campaign setting. Greyhawk is 'generic' (sorry fans, I know it's classic but I always found it a touch boring) this is anything but. It has something for just about every type of fantasy campaign right down to having a 'red planet' a'la John Carter of Mars (Hope I got that title right, my memories a bit rusty in the old pulp stories field) series. People have made cracks about it's page count (253 for $50 is a bit steep) but I considered it well worth it. Granted I got a discount but still. I can, however, see how someone who's never touched the series, never read one of the AP's or one of the supplements might be put off by the price but I would still support it over most campaign worlds I've seen pop up with twice the page count and a similar price.
The only thing I can say is that I was hoping for just a little more crunch. I can understand Paizo has stayed well away from crunch (and has managed to avoid crunch that gives GM's headaches much to my players chagrin) but I thought there would be a little more. I can understand more content means more pages means more money to make so if it came down to "We can double the crunch and lessen the fluff" I'd say "Keep the fluff! Keep the fluff dammit!" because with all the wizards sourcebooks that can be drawn from there's no real need for crunch and I'm happy to finally see 3.5 sourcebooks that are more fluff.
In other words: Keep the fluff coming!
I'm rambling, more wine and more reading for me.
:-P
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Finally got my copy!
In my opinion, it puts the new FRCS to shame.
I read the chapter on lands outside of Avistan last night and then wanted to go dust off my OA 1st ed and OA 3.0 books to start a game in the far east...
Or maybe on the shores of that inner sea. Or Arcadia...{can I finally do my viking colonization game?}
I love the half-page maps that crop of here and there, and I was so excited about the regional feats and fluff here and there that I was quoting the neat stuff to my friend on chat.
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If you received a Gazetteer with a bound-in map, it's the result of some sort of freak manufacturing accident. It is supposed to be attached to the back cover via a dab of sticky gum-like substance.
Speaking of which, in both the Campaign Setting and the Gazetteer, the gum stains the map.
That is literally the only thing I can currently find that is wrong with the Campaign Supplement, which utterly rules. It's a little annoying, though, because I love maps. Did I mention that the supplement rules? It does.
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After I bought this book I brought it home and showed it to my sister. She was so stoked that she asked me to read her a chapter. Now I am reading aloud one country entery per night from the Inner Sea Region as a "bedtime story." It's so fun! We take turns reading enteries and laughing diabolically whenever a villain is mentioned, or putting on funny accents.I want to do that! (But with Jessica Alba)
Who doesn't?
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A few quick questions from those in the know...
Is the map fixed in the .pdf version?
Are the errors really bad enough to worry about? This is outside of the misspelled word, which would probably get on my nerves if I didn't cover it up somehow. :)
This last one can "probably" only be answered by the Paizo staff, but are there any thoughts on offering just the fixed map for sale as a .pdf (or print) for those who want or own the hardcover but are concerned about the wonky maps?
does this book contain the same information as the gazetteer and guide to darkmoon vale?
does this book contain the same information as the gazetteer and guide to darkmoon vale?
There is no practical overlap with Darkmoon Vale. The contents of that book are so comprehensive that the Harcover Campaign Setting doesn't touch it. You will get value for your buck.
I'm going to let somebody else field the other one. :D Though in fairness, no matter what they say, the Gazetteer was intended to come out much earlier than the Hardcover campaign book. It got delayed, and that was always unfortunate.
Great! thanks for the info
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Although this is very late to critise the product and probably all the issues have been talked through, I think it's imperative to mention all those things in the product discussion, really.
Thing is, the campaign setting is *RIDDLED* with typos all over. The most unfortunate, most noticeable is the map. Well, actually all the maps.
"The Inner Sea Reigon" (map), "Shpinx Head" (Osirion entry map), missing some punctuation (like a period in the end of a sentence) (bard entry), "Unkown" (Worldwound, same typo twice) etc.
It's not that it makes the product bad, but it makes me feel it's been made in a hurry, and there are bits missing. Unpolished, maybe, as if there was a rush for Christmas markets or so. Mind you, I'm not saying this is as bad as Complete Divine...
And the binding's degenerating fast, but you know that already.
I have a question. A few actually, but the first one is most important to me.
I have this book and was wondering, how much overlap is there between this and the Pathfinder Chronicles: Gazetteer? I don't have the latter, and I'm considering purchasing it, but not if it's all rehashed in the CS.
Second question is, has anyone gone about trying to work the variant class rules into the PF Beta class versions? Some of them fit nicely, while others...don't.