Indulgence: Art of the Duel (OGL) PDF

4.80/5 (based on 13 ratings)

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by Craig Shackleton

When rapiers flash and steel crosses steel, the finest duelists require more than Combat Expertise and Dodge to show their mettle. Six pages of new weapons, attacks, feats and options for the gentleman swordsmaster are at your disposal maestros, along with a historical expose of the dueling arts and some ideas on how to make the steel ring and the pulse pound in your swashbuckling adventures.

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4.80/5 (based on 13 ratings)

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Brilliant!

5/5

This is the best Pdf when it comes to the topic of duels.
Easy to implement, evocative and plain incredible at the price of $1.50.
Buy this.
Now.
The rules for binds alone are worth ten times the price.


Can I give this 6 stars out of 5?

5/5

Sinister consistently brings the goods.

This piece is simply a *must have* for anyone that wants to expand the cinematic quality of hand-to-hand fighting in their game. Shackleton obviously knows the material intimately, and coupled with his innate brilliance in game design, this is one of the best support pieces that I've ever seen put together.

The new feats are invaluable, and at only $1.50, it's almost criminal not to own this.


Can't really say much that has already been said...

5/5

in previous reviews.

It's too bad Mr. Shackleton couldn't make PaizoCon in 2009. :(

An awesome resource for some truly unique, refreshing swordplay for 3.5 rules. Wonderful stuff!


Fantastic.

5/5

I have not had a chance to test these rules but I have been waiting for something like this for years. A must have for all the rogues and swashbucklers out there when played with light weapons and a little flair.


Crunchy Fencing Goodness

4/5

The Scribe obviously knows his fencing! This little goodie contains a short intro piece -- extremely evocative and well-written -- and then offers a slew of light-weapon feats (11 in all) that offer excellent options for swashbuckling characters. The feats seemed workable and well-balanced mechanically; some are similar to previously-published material, but apply slightly less onerous prerequisites. My only concern is the lack of congruity with earlier stuff and verging into the "too good" territory: there's one feat, for example, that relicates "Robilar's Gambit" almost exactly, except with easier prereqs and no penalty to attack -- out of everything presented, that one could see some serious abuse. Luckily, it applies to only one target/round, but you'd still be crazy NOT to take it, if it's offered.

Overall, a lot of very good stuff, with only one or two feats bent a bit (but not broken, and very easily straightened out by adding a limitation or two). This is worth WAY more than the asking price!


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Contributor

Saber and cutlass! Rapier and dagger! Steel and Blood! You can get your swashbuckling Indulgence on Paizo now too!


Damn you, Logue! Aggghhh, my Freeport campaign needs this... why must you publish such useful pretties?

Grand Lodge

Swashbuckling Fighter.... Now it's not just for breakfast.

Sovereign Court Contributor

:Head Explodes:

Contributor

FabesMinis wrote:
Damn you, Logue! Aggghhh, my Freeport campaign needs this... why must you publish such useful pretties?

This project was always a dream of mine...I was always disappointed with how D&D delivered a swashbuckling, rapier wielding swordsman. So I got me some genius Craig Shackleton, who just happens to be a serious maestro of the blade in real life, to deliver on that dream.


oooh! oooh! Now I can get this and the shark god thing for my savage tide game...It'll throw a big wrench into those players who like to read spoilers after being told material is off limits!! I'll teach those ne'er do wells!!

Contributor

Amardolem wrote:
oooh! oooh! Now I can get this and the shark god thing for my savage tide game...It'll throw a big wrench into those players who like to read spoilers after being told material is off limits!! I'll teach those ne'er do wells!!

Screwing over players is my favorite! :-)

Sovereign Court Contributor

Logophylia: Thanks for that kind review! I very much appreciate it!

Dark Archive

Got my copy. Follow-up article suggestion... schools of swordsmanship similar to the old "red steel" fighting styles.

Contributor

Radavel wrote:
Got my copy. Follow article suggestion... schools of swordsmanship similar to the old "red steel" fighting styles.

Craig's already whipping me up some more cool articles to follow this one! I'm sure he's listening so post your requests here! Awesome!

Sovereign Court

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens Subscriber
Radavel wrote:
Got my copy. Follow-up article suggestion... schools of swordsmanship similar to the old "red steel" fighting styles.

Warning! Game Balance Freak about to talk.

How do the feats balance against PHB, Complete Warrior, and Complete Adventurer. I allow these to splat books because I beleive an eye was kept to balance. Have created several of my own feats but they have never been popular.

Contributor

Andrew Phillips wrote:
Radavel wrote:
Got my copy. Follow-up article suggestion... schools of swordsmanship similar to the old "red steel" fighting styles.

Warning! Game Balance Freak about to talk.

How do the feats balance against PHB, Complete Warrior, and Complete Adventurer. I allow these to splat books because I beleive an eye was kept to balance. Have created several of my own feats but they have never been popular.

I gave these things a pretty critical eye and don't think any of them upset balance at all. They just let a finesse fighter be as useful/powerful as a Power Attacker is all. But definitely not unbalanced in my opinion.

Sovereign Court

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens Subscriber

Ok just grabbed it.

Contributor

Andrew Phillips wrote:
Ok just grabbed it.

Rock! Let me know what you think Andrew. You may want to check out our Forums too, there is a GM reference thread for this there. You could post up any questions or concerns about any of the feats or options therein and Craig or myself will be happy to help.

Also, another poster has included a couple feats of their own design there to enhance the article in intoxicating ways. ;-)


Are these articles being created with Pathfinder RPG in mind?

Grand Lodge

blope wrote:
Are these articles being created with Pathfinder RPG in mind?

These articles would have been started before the PF announcement, but from what I see they fit in well with the Alpha. Final version, who knows?

Grand Lodge

Nick has said that he will be putting out PRPG versions of the adventures, dependent on OGL considerations.

Liberty's Edge

I think it's important to point out, if it hasn't been pointed out elsewhere other than the PodCast, that Craig "Rambling Scribe" Shackleton knows how to actually duel, so you've got a guy who knows what he's talking about writing this thing.

Contributor

Heathansson wrote:

I think it's important to point out, if it hasn't been pointed out elsewhere other than the PodCast, that Craig "Rambling Scribe" Shackleton knows how to actually duel, so you've got a guy who knows what he's talking about writing this thing.

He does indeed. Quite a fierce swordsman Rambling Scribe be!


I'm really liking it and in particular It's had me thinking since I first checked it out about what kind of weapons one can use for binding aside from fencing. I haven't seen the thread at Sinister, but I'm hoping people have some ideas along these lines... Logue? You're the weapon freak.

Contributor

Kruelaid wrote:
I'm really liking it and in particular It's had me thinking since I first checked it out about what kind of weapons one can use for binding aside from fencing. I haven't seen the thread at Sinister, but I'm hoping people have some ideas along these lines... Logue? You're the weapon freak.

This is a GREAT question! I'll think on it and come up with some fun thoughts. We should Craig on this too!

Did you mean improvised stuff...or weapons from real martial arts?

Dark Archive

Nick, an additional article request: Samurai Sword Fighting Schools. Thanks :D

Sovereign Court Contributor

I did leave that intentionally open to interpretation. Strictly speaking, a weapon needs some kind of cross-guard or similar perpendicular section that allows you to apply counter-pressure to bind, but it's remarkable how many weapons can be made (and have been made) with something that will suffice. For example, a spear seems inappropriate for binding, but many types of spears have wings, lugs, or something similar near the head and these can be used for binding. In fact, I've done this with spears. An axe should be possible, although I've never tried. Certainly weapons like flails should be able to bind as well.

Contrariwise some weapons that normally would be appropriate can be made without real cross-guards. What D&D calls short swords, long swords and bastard swords all have cross-guards in some cultural variations but not in others.

Then there is the added complication of using what's around you in conjunction with your bind. I've pinned weapons to the wall and ground before, using weapons that would otherwise be unsuitable for binding.

And then there's the possibility of simply really effectively controlling the inside line and positioning yourself to restrict your opponent's movement... not really a bind, but it certainly could be replicated with the same mechanic.

So I decided to just leave it open and allow binds to all weapons. But if I were going to come up with a simple limitation, I would restrict it pretty much to swords, rapiers, daggers and flails. Oh, and any pole-arm that can be used to trip or gives a bonus to disarm. And unarmed combat, but that might be a further discussion. Then I would allow the purchase of an upgrade on a case by case basis to allow people to bind with other weapons.

How's that for a non-committal answer?


Rambling Scribe wrote:
I did leave that intentionally open to interpretation. Strictly speaking, a weapon needs some kind of cross-guard or similar perpendicular section that allows you to apply counter-pressure to bind, but it's remarkable how many weapons can be made (and have been made) with something that will suffice.

I can chime in on this. Spears and long staffs can all be used to bind using counter pressure without any cross guard, and safely so against shorter weapons and bladeless long weapons. There are many weapon-lock techniques where the pole is used to immobilize the weapon arm by creating counter pressure between the body and the weapon. To put it simply, the staff is threaded around the arm and under the armpit, under the throat, or behind the head resulting in a leverage or submission hold or possibly even a throw that can only be countered if the opponent drops his weapon, and even that can be prevented by some of these techniques. Doing so usually requires a combination of parry and body shifting while you set your weapon, shift and lever.

A katana can also be used to do this against another sword, but you need to be wearing armour or you could take a nasty slice in real life. It requires very close combat, taking the weapon against your body. And that by and large brings the combatants to hand to hand engagement: these techniques usually result in the use of striking, kicking or grappling once the weapon is immobilized. Seeing this, one can appreciate that in two wepaon fighting the use of a long and short sword is not done just because one arm is weaker, but because sometimes the fighters are too close to use the long blade. I think you guys mentioned the use of daggers in such an engagement, n'est pas?

Then there are analogues of the other weapons that you mention, like nunchuks, kama, tonfa... when used together a pair can probably produce a significant bind, not to mention submission holds. I've seen some wicked nunchuk disarms over here in China.

The problem is that pulling this crap off on a similarly trained fighter is nigh impossible.

Should I be posting this stuff at Sinister?


Rambling Scribe wrote:
I did leave that intentionally open to interpretation. Strictly speaking, a weapon needs some kind of cross-guard or similar perpendicular section that allows you to apply counter-pressure to bind, but it's remarkable how many weapons can be made (and have been made) with something that will suffice.

I replied.

It vanished. One more time, spoilered:

Spoiler:
I can chime in on this. Spears and long staffs can all be used to bind using counter pressure without any cross guard, and safely so against shorter weapons and bladeless long weapons. There are many weapon-lock techniques where the pole is used to immobilize the weapon arm by creating counter pressure between the body and the weapon. To put it simply, the staff is threaded around the arm and under the armpit, under the throat, or behind the head resulting in a leverage or submission hold, and may even threaten a throw. These can usually only be countered if the opponent drops his weapon, and even that can be prevented by some of these techniques. Doing so usually requires a combination of parry and body shifting while you set your weapon, shift and lever.

A katana can also be used to do this against another sword, but you need to be wearing armour or you could take a nasty slice in real life. It requires very close combat, taking the weapon against your body. And that by and large brings the combatants to hand to hand engagement: these techniques usually result in the use of striking, kicking or grappling once the weapon is immobilized. Seeing this, one can appreciate that in two wepaon fighting the use of a long and short sword is not done just because one arm is weaker, but because sometimes the fighters are too close to use the long blade. I think you guys mentioned the use of daggers in such an engagement, n'est pas?

Then there are analogues of the other weapons that you mention, like nunchuks, kama, tonfa... when used together a pair can probably produce a significant bind, not to mention submission holds. I've seen some wicked nunchuk disarms over here in China.

The problem is that pulling this crap off on a similarly trained fighter is nigh impossible.

Liberty's Edge

Youtube: how to bind Does that look right?


BTW Craig, I wasn't trying to lure you guys into saying something I disagreed with. Your post just really got me thinking about what it means to bind with other weapons and the conditions created by doing so.

Also, I've posted the same reply to you twice, it's three paragraphs long, and I can't see either.

If you can't see it above it's here on my recent posts a few down from the top. Read it you Sinister Satan worshipers, it's cool.


Heathansson wrote:
Youtube: how to bind Does that look right?

Great. That's the bind I learned. And ground binds are deadly against slashing attacks in kendo.

But that's not the kind of binding I think Craig is talking about where weapons are immobilized. Craig?

Sovereign Court

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens Subscriber

Good set of Feats. Can't wait to use them in a game. As some have mentioned Bind is perfect for the Combat Maneuver system and as Kruelaid mentioned if the bind is very difficult against opponents of similar skill then great, I believe the Combat Maneuver system is designed with that in mind given that the DC starts at 15 plus base attack etc.

Sovereign Court Contributor

That's not really the kind of bind the article describes, but I would include that as something that could be included under the bind heading of the article.

Although, every single thing she described I would execute differently. Which is always the case with stage combat compared to sword combat as a martial art.

And Kruelaid, I'm always happy to talk about sword-fighting, given the time. And I've never found any two swordsmen that agree 100% on how things work! I sometimes have a tendency to make my answers about swordplay brief, mostly to stop myself from rambling on forever (although also because as an instructor I frequently need to just say "Just do what I say until you get it right, and then you'll understand why" much as I hate to say things like that).

One further thing; I have pretty much zero background in any Asian sword combat (or any Asian martial art frankly). I know there are similarities and differences, but I usually simply reserve comment on such things because it is not my forte. So I won't be able to answer questions anyone might have along the lines of "How would this work with a katana?" I could tell you how I would use a katana, but it probably is only marginally related to how a katana is intended to be used.

EDIT: And Kruelaid, I can see both of your posts above. Just the vagaries of the board.

Sczarni

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens Subscriber
Heathansson wrote:
Youtube: how to bind Does that look right?

I love how that video uses sabres -the only slashing fencing weapon, and 80% of the attacks in the video are straight attacks..

Contributor

Rambling Scribe wrote:
An axe should be possible, although I've never tried.

Any axe with a beard (the bit where the blade widens out leaving a hollow between it and the haft, for those of you playing at home) can be used to bind. And, yes, staffs can be used to jam your foes weapon into the ground or up in the air, though this works best against other pole weapons, and is usually only held long enough to do a riposte with the other end.

Sczarni

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens Subscriber
David Schwartz wrote:
Rambling Scribe wrote:
An axe should be possible, although I've never tried.
Any axe with a beard (the bit where the blade widens out leaving a hollow between it and the haft, for those of you playing at home) can be used to bind. And, yes, staffs can be used to jam your foes weapon into the ground or up in the air, though this works best against other pole weapons, and is usually only held long enough to do a riposte with the other end.

Staffs also are used against foes with shorter weapons or unarmed in a similar method - put the end into the opponant's sleeve and circle it around their arm, catching the sleeve until it becomes tight, binding the arm to the staff and then striking with the same side or pulling the person off balance. There is a similar technique for binding a kicker's legs, but I have never seen it utilized.

I'll have to see if I can find my old house rules on blunt damage to limbs... it was very important when I was DMing for 6 black belts, had to make a way to tell if their pressure was enough to pop a shoulder out or hyper-extend an arm.


I cannot truely say what I would like to see in a future article. I am impressed with what I learned. I simply encourage Rambling Scribe to keep up the good work and hopefully he can share more about what he knows, then adapt it to gameplay. Seriously, I loved the work, and re-read the article from a historical point of view after digesting the game ramifications. Nice job, Craig!


Szombulis wrote:
... Nice job, Craig!

Yah, it really is a great contribution to the game.

Thanks Craig.


Cpt_kirstov wrote:
...put the end into the opponant's sleeve and circle it around their arm, catching the sleeve until it becomes tight, binding the arm to the staff and then striking with the same side or pulling the person off balance...

Ahh, in HTH there are a plethora of ways to do this. A lot of the techniques go by the name Eagle Claw and there is a whole school of Kung Fu that specializes in grabbing clothing and forcing submissions. (See the really old and very corny Chinese movie Dreadnought)

Clothing binds were my favorite technique in kumite - I used to drive people crazy and even got some laughs out of the referees a few times by pulling gis over people's heads and dragging them down. My poor students; I was a terrible man.

The only problem was the finger dislocations that inevitably result in misjudging your grabs: I can still pop my middle finger in and out freely on my left hand.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

This article rocked I have already added the options to my campaign and the duskblade in the group retrained to take several of the feats. It worked very well for both a stand alone fighter type and a multi-classed warrior mage type.

Grand Lodge

Phalazar wrote:
This article rocked I have already added the options to my campaign and the duskblade in the group retrained to take several of the feats. It worked very well for both a stand alone fighter type and a multi-classed warrior mage type.

Phalazar, I think the review page could use some more actual play-test feedback. :)

Contributor

Kruelaid wrote:
Heathansson wrote:
Youtube: how to bind Does that look right?

Great. That's the bind I learned. And ground binds are deadly against slashing attacks in kendo.

But that's not the kind of binding I think Craig is talking about where weapons are immobilized. Craig?

Firs off, the fighters in that video are standing WAAAAAAY too close. One of them is dead, or both of them are dead, before anything like a bind is happening.

But that kind of bind, as far as my training goes, involves what we refer to as expulsion, since you're basically just hurling their blade into the ground. In a more effective bind, you are in control of your opponent's weapon, and in a way that you can basically skewer them with ease...at least from my training.

Also, all the stuff you are describing Kruelaid is AWESOME! But not really a bind in the standard Western Swordplay definition. Actually that's not necessarily true, it would be a bind, just not the same kind Craig is rapping about I think.

Those kinds of techniques are really cool, but more like "grappling" with your weapon. I did some stuff with this in an article on the Olman in Dragon though I think it may have gotten cut...I'd have to recheck (at any rate I'm doing much more with it in one of next month's Indulgences that is all about the fighting arts of the Tulita tribes...I think you'll enjoy that one a lot Kruelaid!).

Chinese spear technique is AMAZING (as Kruel already pointed out) in that it accomplishes a lot of things you'd usually need extra "bits" on your weapon to accomplish, but with sheer body mechanics. Go qiangfa for the win! :-)

Contributor

Kruelaid wrote:
Cpt_kirstov wrote:
...put the end into the opponant's sleeve and circle it around their arm, catching the sleeve until it becomes tight, binding the arm to the staff and then striking with the same side or pulling the person off balance...

Ahh, in HTH there are a plethora of ways to do this. A lot of the techniques go by the name Eagle Claw and there is a whole school of Kung Fu that specializes in grabbing clothing and forcing submissions. (See the really old and very corny Chinese movie Dreadnought)

Clothing binds were my favorite technique in kumite - I used to drive people crazy and even got some laughs out of the referees a few times by pulling gis over people's heads and dragging them down. My poor students; I was a terrible man.

The only problem was the finger dislocations that inevitably result in misjudging your grabs: I can still pop my middle finger in and out freely on my left hand.

There is a great basic spear technique that is basically designed to throw someone's robes over their head and thrash them to the ground. Just in case people think Kruelaid is reaching for "obscure" techniques in his post above, this spear technique was the SECOND thing I learned, literally. :-)

Clothing binds definitely rock.


Craig is about 6'4 and built like a hero. He has a soft and thoughtful way of speaking and so I lowered my guard around him. Having recently finished his article I now realize that during those gentile conversations he was probably sizing me up and imagining how he'd incapacitate me one second into a fight. I fear him and you should to. He deserves nothing more.

Craig, at Gen Con would it even be possible to score a lesson? Perhaps a single primer to swordfighting from you? I don't know what you charge or what we'd use for swords, but that would be a blast.

Hey! You should give a seminar! Get on the program. I would sign up for that in a second. Most European medieval sword fighting you see today is based on a step based choreography devised for the SCA, right? Learning how to really get in there and duke would be HOT!

Grand Lodge

The Jade wrote:
Craig is about 6'4 and built like a hero. He has a soft and thoughtful way of speaking ... would be HOT!

OMG! Scribe! You have a Groupie!

Contributor

The Jade wrote:

Craig is about 6'4 and built like a hero. He has a soft and thoughtful way of speaking and so I lowered my guard around him. Having recently finished his article I now realize that during those gentile conversations he was probably sizing me up and imagining how he'd incapacitate me one second into a fight. I fear him and you should to. He deserves nothing more.

Craig, at Gen Con would it even be possible to score a lesson? Perhaps a single primer to swordfighting from you? I don't know what you charge or what we'd use for swords, but that would be a blast.

Hey! You should give a seminar! Get on the program. I would sign up for that in a second. Most European medieval sword fighting you see today is based on a step based choreography devised for the SCA, right? Learning how to really get in there and duke would be HOT!

Some year at Gencon (I'll be WAAAAY to busy this year) I'd love to do a basic broadsword or rapier seminar at the con! That would be a blast! Maybe Scribe and I could double-team it!


Scribbling Rambler wrote:
The Jade wrote:
Craig is about 6'4 and built like a hero. He has a soft and thoughtful way of speaking ... would be HOT!
OMG! Scribe! You have a Groupie!

Yeah, will Nic is the one talking about double teams.

Liberty's Edge

Nicolas Logue wrote:
The Jade wrote:

Craig is about 6'4 and built like a hero. He has a soft and thoughtful way of speaking and so I lowered my guard around him. Having recently finished his article I now realize that during those gentile conversations he was probably sizing me up and imagining how he'd incapacitate me one second into a fight. I fear him and you should to. He deserves nothing more.

Craig, at Gen Con would it even be possible to score a lesson? Perhaps a single primer to swordfighting from you? I don't know what you charge or what we'd use for swords, but that would be a blast.

Hey! You should give a seminar! Get on the program. I would sign up for that in a second. Most European medieval sword fighting you see today is based on a step based choreography devised for the SCA, right? Learning how to really get in there and duke would be HOT!

Some year at Gencon (I'll be WAAAAY to busy this year) I'd love to do a basic broadsword or rapier seminar at the con! That would be a blast! Maybe Scribe and I could double-team it!

I'll bring my nerf gun and rubber chicken nunchuks.

Contributor

Heathansson wrote:
Nicolas Logue wrote:
The Jade wrote:

Craig is about 6'4 and built like a hero. He has a soft and thoughtful way of speaking and so I lowered my guard around him. Having recently finished his article I now realize that during those gentile conversations he was probably sizing me up and imagining how he'd incapacitate me one second into a fight. I fear him and you should to. He deserves nothing more.

Craig, at Gen Con would it even be possible to score a lesson? Perhaps a single primer to swordfighting from you? I don't know what you charge or what we'd use for swords, but that would be a blast.

Hey! You should give a seminar! Get on the program. I would sign up for that in a second. Most European medieval sword fighting you see today is based on a step based choreography devised for the SCA, right? Learning how to really get in there and duke would be HOT!

Some year at Gencon (I'll be WAAAAY to busy this year) I'd love to do a basic broadsword or rapier seminar at the con! That would be a blast! Maybe Scribe and I could double-team it!

I'll bring my nerf gun and rubber chicken nunchuks.

Sweeeeeet!


If I ever meet any of you crazy people in person, I am so watching what I say.

EDIT: That was my cousin using my computer that just called you crazy. Totally not me.

Sovereign Court Contributor

I'd love to do a seminar on the I:33 manual of swordplay written in ~ 1300 in Germany. It's my favoritest. The problem is getting equipment to GenCon, and also I think I might be too late to arrange that, and I'm crazy busy.

That said, last year at Origins they had a thing set up where you could basically go and fight with foam weapons. Normally I use blunt steel, but I might change my policy for a quick training session with a few pwople if I have time.

I:33 is superfun.


Scribbling Rambler wrote:
The Jade wrote:
Craig is about 6'4 and built like a hero. He has a soft and thoughtful way of speaking ... would be HOT!
OMG! Scribe! You have a Groupie!

Every other post I've written gets eaten lately.

A few hours ago, I responded with:

"Yeah, but Nic's the one talking about double teams."

Contributor

The Jade wrote:
Scribbling Rambler wrote:
The Jade wrote:
Craig is about 6'4 and built like a hero. He has a soft and thoughtful way of speaking ... would be HOT!
OMG! Scribe! You have a Groupie!

Every other post I've written gets eaten lately.

A few hours ago, I responded with:

"Yeah, but Nic's the one talking about double teams."

I do like to double team Lou with you Rone!!! ;-)

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