I agree with prev posts-is this just repackaged maps from the first 6 adventures? if so, what is the point when i could just print them off my pdfs?
I agree with prev posts-is this just repackaged maps from the first 6 adventures? if so, what is the point when i could just print them off my pdfs?Printing them probably costs more in ink than just buying the folio, for starters...
Not if you have a colour laser printer. I'm still a little unclear about this product too. Your reply suggests that this folio is just reprinted maps from the RotRL adventure path. Is there anything different about them (i.e. larger format, etc.) that would entice someone who can cheaply print the pdf maps to buy this?
Creative Director
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Not if you have a colour laser printer. I'm still a little unclear about this product too. Your reply suggests that this folio is just reprinted maps from the RotRL adventure path. Is there anything different about them (i.e. larger format, etc.) that would entice someone who can cheaply print the pdf maps to buy this?
Fair enough.
But yes, this product is mostly reprints of key maps from the Rise of the Runelords adventure path. It also includes two poster maps, one of the town of Sandpoint and one of the region of Varisia. Both maps are the same as the maps in the Rise of the Runelords Player's Guide... but four times as large.
If you can cheaply print the maps from the PDF, and don't want the poster maps (or can print them on big sheets of paper from the PDF), then yeah, there's less of a reason to buy this product.
In a lot of ways, this product's an experiment. Creating and printing it is relatively cheap for us, since it IS mostly reprinted maps (the two poster maps had to be redone as bigger files, which cost a little bit), and we've had a lot of requests for a product like this (either for Runelords or for other Adventure Paths). If it turns out that people don't want or need a product like this, that's fine. If they do, that's also fine. (Better than fine, since that brings more money in to the company, of course!)
Fair enough.
But yes, this product is mostly reprints of key maps from the Rise of the Runelords adventure path. It also includes two poster maps, one of the town of Sandpoint and one of the region of Varisia. Both maps are the same as the maps in the Rise of the Runelords Player's Guide... but four times as large.
Wow, fast reply for a Saturday night - shouldn't you be gaming or something? Anyway, thanks, that's just what I wanted to know - large scale poster maps definitely make this worth buying.
I agree with prev posts-is this just repackaged maps from the first 6 adventures? if so, what is the point when i could just print them off my pdfs?
I just print mine off in black and white for a quick reference - I hate flipping pages. I wish Paizo had provided me a way to get poster maps of the cities without all this extra stuff I already have.
Too bad.
As for the costs of printing, Paizo defends this by saying their Folio is printed cheaper, but then they aren't paying the shipping, are they....
Wow, fast reply for a Saturday night - shouldn't you be gaming or something? Anyway, thanks, that's just what I wanted to know - large scale poster maps definitely make this worth buying.
Are the two poster maps, by themselves worth 15 dollars plus shipping? I ask this question is all seriousness. Are they that good?
Will this include an electronic version as well? I run my games online and missed out on the electronic version of ROTRL 1 & 2 , and the maps in electronic form would be awesome...
Are the two poster maps, by themselves worth 15 dollars plus shipping? I ask this question is all seriousness. Are they that good?
I gather that the poster maps are the same as the maps from the AP in larger format, so whether the folio is worth $15 plus shipping is really a matter of opinion and personal choice. If you want large poster maps badly enough, then yes. If they aren't that important to you, then no.
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Creative Director
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What about the possibility of releasing miniature scaled maps for certain areas, like the larger boss style battles? Not for this one obviously, but for the future Map Packs?
Boss battles tend to happen in unusual, unique locations, and those don't work well for map packs, which generally need to be relatively generic, "usable-lots-of-times" locations. Perhaps some day, though, we'll be able to release minis-scale maps of key AP areas.
The problem is that we'd have to have those maps redrawn from scratch; you can't just "blow them up" from the originals since they'd get all pixelly. Which means we'd need to pay for all those maps over, which probably means we'd either need to charge a LOT more for this type of product or we'd have to be pretty certain that a LOT of people would buy such a product.
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Creative Director
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As for the costs of printing, Paizo defends this by saying their Folio is printed cheaper, but then they aren't paying the shipping, are they....
Actually... we kind of are. It's not cheap to ship palates of product from China to Paizo.
Are the two poster maps, by themselves worth 15 dollars plus shipping? I ask this question is all seriousness. Are they that good?
That's something that each GM needs to answer for himself, honestly, and in so answering, we'll get our feedback as to whether these are worthwhile products to continue producing in the future.
Actually... we kind of are. It's not cheap to ship palates of product from China to Paizo.
And then I pay to ship stuff back. Why don't you just give me your printer's address and I'll go bribe them?
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Creative Director
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And then I pay to ship stuff back. Why don't you just give me your printer's address and I'll go bribe them?
Actually... we kind of are. It's not cheap to ship palates of product from China to Paizo.
Wouldn't it be easier for me just to email the files direct to you once I'm done editing them?
Wouldn't it be easier for me just to email the files direct to you once I'm done editing them?
=)
Oh so much, bribing businessman is just such a mafan these days. A dinner and a hooker just doesn't cut it anymore; you've gotta send their kids to school in the States, buy their cousin an Audi.... so much trouble.
Of course I could hang out at the main gate of the print house and crack one of their underlings. That's not so hard because they don't earn much, but then there's the problem of of factory security which has stepped up in the last 5 years.
(FYI: I respect you guys and would never participate in violating your IPR despite being in the center of the piracy universe. All said in fun.)
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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As for the costs of printing, Paizo defends this by saying their Folio is printed cheaper, but then they aren't paying the shipping, are they....Actually... we kind of are. It's not cheap to ship palates of product from China to Paizo.
Are the two poster maps, by themselves worth 15 dollars plus shipping? I ask this question is all seriousness. Are they that good?That's something that each GM needs to answer for himself, honestly, and in so answering, we'll get our feedback as to whether these are worthwhile products to continue producing in the future.
Except this product is included in the Chronicles Subscription. I really don't want it, am very unhappy about being charged for it, and feel very much that I am paying for the same product twice. If people feel the need to purchase the same product twice because they don't want to print out the maps, let them purchase the map folio, but please don't include a duplicate product in with our subscription.
Sebastian, nobody is forcing you to subscribe. If you don't think that the PDFs (the only subscription benefit for Chronicles) are worth occasionally paying for another item, don't subscribe.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Sebastian, nobody is forcing you to subscribe.
Nobody is forcing you to give stupid replies. I have a legitimate complaint about the product I'm purchasing and, last time I checked, this is the forum for voicing such a complaint. I'm sure Paizo appreciates your efforts to lose them sales, but sadly (or maybe luckily), you are not part of their customer service.
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I understand Sebastian!
I thought this Mapfolio to be something like the maps from Skeleton Keys. Postermaps to stage the encounters with minis there. Now just get the maps I already have in my PF pdf-files again (together with those Postermaps, which I don't want get charged that much).
Anyway, if it's not the product I imagined it to be, I cancel my subscription and need to order all the other stuff separately (which is sad, as I loose my discount as a subscriber than...)
I understand Sebastian's concern with the product.
I'm less vocal about it because I went ten rounds with Kruelaid over the Item Cards. I'm afraid of Hypocrisy Spirits coming after me. So, I won't be cancelling my subscription or raising hell. I am disappointed though.
Here's a suggestion though. If there is enough negative backlash against this product, how about selling just poster maps instead? I'd still pay $5-6 for just those.
I thought this Mapfolio to be something like the maps from Skeleton Keys. Postermaps to stage the encounters with minis there.
Or.. maybe future versions of this product could be just what Dryder is describing?
Well guys.
I have the same problem with their bundling of products (bundle maps in the folio/bundle products in the PChron sub) and I am not subscribing because if you don't speak with your money nobody will listen. AND, there are some additional campaign supplement products in the PChron line I am warm about but won't be taking because I am not a subscriber.
Sebastian, nobody is forcing you to subscribe. If you don't think that the PDFs (the only subscription benefit for Chronicles) are worth occasionally paying for another item, don't subscribe.
Complaining alone rarely works.
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Creative Director
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For what its worth, we are in the process of taking this feedback and making our subscription offerings work better. I'll certainly be bringing the concerns about the map folio being included in the subscription to everyone's attention, though; the comments made above have made several good points.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I don't want to open the what should be included in a subscription can of worms again, but I really think this is a different issue altogether. The Chronicles line already includes pdf copies of the maps - this is effectively the same product twice. If there were some level of original content (such as miniature scaled maps as Dryder suggested), I would be much more willing to suck it up (though generally speaking, I want new content, not the same content reformated). And what I really don't want to see is a book of RotRL art (all reprinted), followed by a book of NPC stat blocks (all reprinted), followed by "the best of RotRL" (reprints of the top 5 coolest encounters in the adventure path), etc. I'm not ready to cancel my subscription over this, but I am unhappy.
Edit: James posted while I was typing. Thanks James, I appreciate your attention to this matter.
Nobody is forcing you to give stupid replies. I have a legitimate complaint about the product I'm purchasing and, last time I checked, this is the forum for voicing such a complaint. I'm sure Paizo appreciates your efforts to lose them sales, but sadly (or maybe luckily), you are not part of their customer service.
I apologize if I've offended you. It was certainly not my intent. I was simply trying to say that if you do not want something that you do not need to purchase it. I'll stay out of your business from now on.
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The Chronicles line already includes pdf copies of the maps - this is effectively the same product twice.
I could be wrong here, it happens more often than I like, but I don't think that's true.
The Pathfinder subscription contains pdf copies of the maps, but the Chronicles subscription does not, aside from the map folio.
That being said, the maps are only really useful to people running RotR. The poster maps are nice for people playing in the region, and the other maps could be used as generic maps if your not running the AP. But, mostly the maps are best used by people who already have them.
I'm getting them anyway, as I don't have access to a good printer.
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Creative Director
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That being said, the maps are only really useful to people running RotR.
That's not quite the case.
Maps of Mystery were one of the more popular features in Dungeon. A GM who's not running Rise of the Runelords could use the maps in the folio as locations in the game he IS running. That game doesn't even need to be D&D.
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Devide the large map into 4 different pages, get pages, layout on the table next to each other. Now I have a poster map and if I want them fixed to each other I scotch tape them together, if I only need the lower left corner I can use that one separately.
I myself am in a pickle with this, for me an overseas customer the fact I get the pdf's a lot earlier is worth a lot... It's time to go the account way to see if I will
a) keep the subscription
b) cancel subscription and buy pdf + books for a while.
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I admit that I didn't receive the hard copy of this product.
But the pdf let me feel underwhelmed. The poster maps had to be mind blowing to dissuade me from my current opinion on this product:
Some people mentioned that it is supposed to be useful for those who didn't purchase Pathfinder #1 to #6 yet. My question then: Why is it then included in a PATHFINDER chronicle subscription? Some people reason that this is a great additional help for Pathfinder DMs. My question then: Why only so much new content? Do you really believe that people alrady subscribing to Pathfinder need another set of the same maps they already own?
I really like the concept of including additional information on the Pathfinder world in Pathfinder chronicles - stressing the word 'additional'. I feel somehow fooled - a notion I never felt so far with Paizo products.
If there is not enough content for a monthly Pathfinder Chronicle product, please lower the publishing rhythm for this product line!
Greetings,
Günther
P.S.
Please stop that "keep it or leave it" comment. This is the second product in this line and the second time so many chronicles subscribers complain about it. Obviously your clients' expectations differ from yours.
Nobody is forcing you to give stupid replies. I have a legitimate complaint about the product I'm purchasing and, last time I checked, this is the forum for voicing such a complaint. I'm sure Paizo appreciates your efforts to lose them sales, but sadly (or maybe luckily), you are not part of their customer service.I apologize if I've offended you. It was certainly not my intent. I was simply trying to say that if you do not want something that you do not need to purchase it. I'll stay out of your business from now on.
Don't encourage him. Whatever you do, don't apologize. As with many hyper-competitive people with obviously low self-esteem, he thinks it is a sign of weakness and will react "accordingly."
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I like maps so I don't really have any problems with the Folio but I think it might be better in the Pathfinder Accessories Section. They kind of fit with the item cards, nice addition but not really needed to run the AP. Also since they come out twice a year the Item Cards and Folios would go together nicely that some DM's would like and some not so much.
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Do you really believe that people alrady subscribing to Pathfinder need another set of the same maps they already own?
I believe the purpose behind the map folio was that it would allow the DM to have a copy of the map handy, so they didn't have to keep flipping back and forth in the book: read a room description, flip to the page the map is on, flip back to the room description, etc. This way, the can have the map next to them, and just glance at it when needed without losing their place in the book. Some people have said something along the lines of "well if you're already getting the PDF for Pathfinder, why not just print out the map from there?" Unfortunately, this doesn't work for everyone, since they might not have a high-quality/color printer.
If there is not enough content for a monthly Pathfinder Chronicle product, please lower the publishing rhythm for this product line!
The Chronicles line was never intended to be a monthly release (although they've said they're trying to smooth out the release schedule to avoid 2-3 products in the same month). And anyway, I'm pretty sure this product was created before the idea of a Chronicles subscription was ever brought up. And it was brought up and encouraged by us, the fans. So its not about trying to fill the "monthly quota" for the line, since there really isn't one. They thought people would find it useful, so they offered it up. When people asked for a "complete" subscription option, they included this in the subscription.
This is the second product in this line and the second time so many chronicles subscribers complain about it. Obviously your clients' expectations differ from yours.
As is evident by the recent announcement about removing the item cards from the Chronicles line, they're still tweaking what should/shouldn't be in included in the subscription. So, while I personally find the map folio to be useful, I encourage everyone to express their opinion on this so Paizo knows what we, as a group, want. But try to keep it respectful and remember that Paizo created this subscription at our request.
So, while I personally find the map folio to be useful, I encourage everyone to express their opinion on this so Paizo knows what we, as a group, want. But try to keep it respectful and remember that Paizo created this subscription at our request.
Quite true.
I recall some of the posters in fact. Just out of my own curiousity, I went back and tried to find the old message thread for this, because it got changed when Chronicles Subscription was created..
*shrug*
...It doesn't matter. Void Eagle speaks correctly.
I wanted it too. Unfortunately we didn't ask for more specifics early on.
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I missed something...what in the world is everyone all stirred up about?
I love this idea if for no other reason than as James said above - maps inspire creativity!
Even if Paizo ends up going to 4e, maps are systemless (unless they venture off into non-euclidean geometry to account for the weird diagonal movement rules). I will buys these even if I don't get the APs.
That being said, the maps are only really useful to people running RotR.That's not quite the case.
Maps of Mystery were one of the more popular features in Dungeon. A GM who's not running Rise of the Runelords could use the maps in the folio as locations in the game he IS running. That game doesn't even need to be D&D.
I love maps, I am a total cartophile, and I totally hear you on this. IF I DIDN'T have RotRl I would love this product.
Nobody is forcing you to give stupid replies...
I apologize if I've offended you. It was certainly not my intent. I was simply trying to say that if you do not want something that you do not need to purchase it. I'll stay out of your business from now on.
Don't encourage him. Whatever you do, don't apologize. As with many hyper-competitive people with obviously low self-esteem, he thinks it is a sign of weakness and will react "accordingly."
Also, he's insane and he may break into your house and tried to give you massages.
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Chief Technical Officer
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I wanted it too. Unfortunately we didn't ask for more specifics early on.
Actually, you might recall I asked everyone for specifics of what they wanted in a deluxe subscription. And I got a different answer in nearly every post—I want sourcebooks; I want cards; I want everything *but* cards; I want everything but cards *and* maps; I want T-shirts in size XL, please. It quickly became clear that we wouldn't be able to please everyone, so we did our best.
I missed something...what in the world is everyone all stirred up about?
Well.. basically... These were really a coveted item until about a month ago when someone had the presence of mind to ask, "Hey, what specific maps are we getting?"
And the answer was, "The same ones in the chapter books. But now you can remove them, and use them as a reference tool."
Which led to the inevitable question, "How big are they?" And they're about 8.5" x 11", except the posters.
It simmered for awhile, and near as I can tell this last past weekend the complaints started. It probably coincided with the Item Cards being removed from the Chronicles Subscription.
When I was crazy for the product I thought they would be like colored battlemaps.
And bear in mind, I complained this weekend too, albeit mildly. So I'm a complainer. :/ I do feel somewhat hamstrung because of the Item Card War.
I love maps, I am a total cartophile, and I totally hear you on this. IF I DIDN'T have RotRl I would love this product.
And I agree with Kruelaid, Ditheringfool. These would be kickass, except for the redundancy. That's the only thing wrong with them.
I wanted it too. Unfortunately we didn't ask for more specifics early on.Actually, you might recall I asked everyone for specifics of what they wanted in a deluxe subscription. .
An excellent answer Vic, only it's to the wrong question.
You're putting this into the context of what is included in the subscription. You're right, but that's not what I meant.
I said we didn't ask for specifics as to what is included in this specific product.
We didn't ask.. what maps are these? What are you giving us maps of?
Sure, I guess it's kinda obvious in hindsight, but when Chapter One was the book that was out when this product was announced.. *shrug* I'm not sure what I thought was going to be in it.
The map folio is very useful for me. It is useful because it saves me time and is prettier than my printer can produce. I hate flipping back and forth in a module.
That said, it also helps to address my primary map needs, but only indirectly. I need maps for miniatures play. In the Dungeon PDFs, there were blank, player friendly, spoiler-resistant maps, which printed very well at one inch scale. The map folio pdf will hopefully also have blank maps, that I can get plotted.
The first map we printed was Zyrxog's lair from HoHR. It is about six foot long. I completely understand why Paizo cannot print such a product for us. RotRL is giant sized, and I can well see people being overwhelmed by some of the 1# =10" maps. They would be wallpaper sized.
Also, he's insane and he may break into your house and tried to give you massages.
I think your back might be in better shape than mine, Kruelly. Because I wouldn't mind anyone breaking in my house to give me a massage right now.
Plus I heard Sebastian might do dishes in exchange for a discount on the 4e core books. And I have room on my credit card and a sinkful of dishes. I'd even throw in a module to get out of that.
Oh. Now that the item cards are out, the subscription pleases me greatly. I am baby bear now. Can has map pleez?
Well, I'm not really complaining. Sebastian complained and I backed him up because I am afraid of him.
;)
Sure, I guess it's kinda obvious in hindsight, but when Chapter One was the book that was out when this product was announced.. *shrug* I'm not sure what I thought was going to be in it.
Vic,
I want to drive home how serious I am. Yeah, it sounds stupid. I read it as stupid when I go back over it.. What was I thinking?
But I recall asking in this board, "I hope this Map Folio comes out soon, because I'm halfway through Chapter One and Chapter Three is about to ship. I don't want lose the usefulness of having the Map Folio. Gee, is it shipping soon?"
Nobody replied to me, "Hey Watcher, it can't ship until Chapter Six is done, and Chapters Three, Four, Five and Six haven't been written yet." That, would have turned on the ol' lightbulb above the head.
NOW LATER.. going to the Paizo Chats and talking to James, yeah.. I figured it out. 2 + 2 started to = 4 It all made sense then...
I just never raised hell about it. I know you're frustrated. I would be frustrated in your place too. But I'm not cancelling my subscription or any stupid crap like that..
All I'm saying is maybe we should review the product idea now that it's better understood.
Cool!
Anyway..
I'm taking the map thing okay. :)
Que sera sera