paizo.com Favorited Posts by Zombrepaizo.com Favorited Posts by Zombre2024-03-22T10:50:02Z2024-03-22T10:50:02ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Trample abilityZombrehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42n04?Trample-ability#92019-07-17T18:53:20Z2019-07-17T04:02:38Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Anvil Mithrashield wrote:</div><blockquote><p> On a side note. If you read "Overrun" it says as part of a "Charge" you can overrun an opponent. I don't think anyone needs clarification on what Overrun means there... you simple get to the next square - easy enough.</p>
<p>But attacking during a charge requires an attack action.</p>
<p>The way I read trample is you don't need to roll a CMB to overrun your target but, that says NOTHING about damage and an attack.</p>
<p>In my mind Trample is the 2nd part of a Charge whole round action which if you choose to attack and you hit the creature does slam + str×1.5. </blockquote><p>“This works just like the overrun combat maneuver, but the trampling creature does not need to make a check, it merely has to move over opponents in its path.”Anvil Mithrashield wrote:On a side note. If you read "Overrun" it says as part of a "Charge" you can overrun an opponent. I don't think anyone needs clarification on what Overrun means there... you simple get to the next square - easy enough.
But attacking during a charge requires an attack action.
The way I read trample is you don't need to roll a CMB to overrun your target but, that says NOTHING about damage and an attack.
In my mind Trample is the 2nd part of a Charge whole round action...Zombre2019-07-17T04:02:38ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Trample abilityZombrehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42n04?Trample-ability#52019-07-17T18:51:52Z2019-07-16T22:54:12Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Penthau wrote:</div><blockquote><p> A question we had a few games ago is can the trampling creature do a double move or just a single move as part of a trample?
</p>
</blockquote><p>It says it works like overrun with the key differences I pointed out. Overrun allows you to do a single move or a charge attack. The charge let's you move up to double your movement to attack a target, but there are restrictions.
<p><i>Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action. Charging, however, carries tight restrictions on how you can move.</p>
<p><b>Movement During a Charge</b>
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You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent. If you move a distance equal to your speed or less, you can also draw a weapon during a charge attack if your base attack bonus is at least +1.
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You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). You must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge. If any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.
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If you don’t have line of sight to the opponent at the start of your turn, you can’t charge that opponent.
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You can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round as a charge.
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If you are able to take only a standard action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed) and you cannot draw a weapon unless you possess the Quick Draw feat. You can’t use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action on your turn.</p>
<p><b>Attacking on a Charge</b>
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After moving, you may make a single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll and take a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn.
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A charging character gets a +2 bonus on combat maneuver attack rolls made to bull rush an opponent.
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Even if you have extra attacks, such as from having a high enough base attack bonus or from using multiple weapons, you only get to make one attack during a charge.
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Lances and Charge Attacks: A lance deals double damage if employed by a mounted character in a charge.
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Weapons Readied against a Charge: Spears, tridents, and other weapons with the brace feature deal double damage when readied (set) and used against a charging character. </i></p>
<p>From <https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/Combat/#Charge</p>Penthau wrote:A question we had a few games ago is can the trampling creature do a double move or just a single move as part of a trample?
It says it works like overrun with the key differences I pointed out. Overrun allows you to do a single move or a charge attack. The charge let's you move up to double your movement to attack a target, but there are restrictions. Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action. Charging,...Zombre2019-07-16T22:54:12ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Trample abilityZombrehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42n04?Trample-ability#32019-07-17T18:51:32Z2019-07-16T22:18:27Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Anvil Mithrashield wrote:</div><blockquote><p> <i>Trample (Ex)
</p>
As a full-round action, a creature with the trample ability <b>can attempt</b> to overrun any creature that is at least one size category Smaller than itself. This works just like the overrun combat maneuver, but the trampling creature does not need to make a check, it merely has to move over opponents in its path. Targets of a trample take an amount of damage equal to the trampling creature’s slam damage + 1-1/2 times its Str modifier. Targets of a trample can make an attack of opportunity, but at a –4 penalty. If targets forgo an attack of opportunity, they can attempt to avoid the trampling creature and receive a Reflex save to take half damage. The save DC against a creature’s trample attack is 10 + 1/2 the creature’s HD + the creature’s Str modifier (the exact DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text). A trampling creature can only deal trampling damage to each target once per round, no matter how many times its movement takes it over a target creature.</i></p>
<p>"Attempt" to me says chance of failure. Is there one? If so what is the chance (an attack roll)? </blockquote><p>Attempt in this case is referring to the creature who has to make the save.
<p>In this part of the description of the special attack Trample it says the following:
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<b> Targets of a trample take an amount of damage equal to the trampling creature’s slam damage + 1-1/2 times its Str modifier. Targets of a trample can make an attack of opportunity, but at a –4 penalty. If targets forgo an attack of opportunity, they can attempt to avoid the trampling creature and receive a Reflex save to take half damage. </b></p>
<p>The last sentence says: If targets forgo an attack of opportunity, they can <b>attempt to avoid the trampling creature</b> and receive a Reflex save to take half damage.</p>
<p>The bold section highlights the part of what the "Attempt" is referring to. Also, unlike overrun, the targets of trample have to be at least one size category smaller than the creature Attempting to Trample them. Because of this, they cannot merely allow the creature with Trample, that is at least one size category or larger to pass through their square unharmed. The smaller targeted creatures have to make a reflex save to jump out of their way and take half damage upon a success without the feat evasion or similar ability.</p>
<p>To better understand how Trample works lets break up the wording a little and read through it.</p>
<p>First part <b>As a full-round action, a creature with the trample ability can attempt to overrun any creature that is at least one size category Smaller than itself. This works just like the overrun combat maneuver, but the trampling creature does not need to make a check, it merely has to move over opponents in its path.</b></p>
<p>The first part says that it works like the overrun, but the trampling creature does not need to make a check.</p>
<p>Here is what at Overrun says:</p>
<p><i>Overrun
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As a standard action, taken during your move or as part of a charge, you can attempt to overrun your target, moving through its square. You can only overrun an opponent who is no more than one size category larger than you. If you do not have the Improved Overrun feat, or a similar ability, initiating an overrun provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver. If your overrun attempt fails, you stop in the space directly in front of the opponent, or the nearest open space in front of the creature if there are other creatures occupying that space.</p>
<p>When you attempt to overrun a target, it can choose to avoid you, allowing you to pass through its square without requiring an attack. If your target does not avoid you, make a combat maneuver check as normal. If your maneuver is successful, you move through the target’s space. If your attack exceeds your opponent’s CMD by 5 or more, you move through the target’s space and the target is knocked prone. If the target has more than two legs, add +2 to the DC of the combat maneuver attack roll for each additional leg it has.</i></p>
<p>Right off the bat we can see how the special attack Trample is upgraded from Overrun. Overrun is a standard action that is taken during your move or as part of a charge. That still leaves the character making the Overrun action to make another maneuver, unless it is making a Charge. <i>Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action. Charging, however, carries tight restrictions on how you can move.</i> Also, overrun only allows you to overrun a target (singular as in one) and that target: <b>You can only overrun an opponent who is no more than one size category larger than you.</b> Trample can target multiple creatures, but <b>A trampling creature can only deal trampling damage to each target once per round, no matter how many times its movement takes it over a target creature.</b></p>
<p>So Overrun allows you to <b>overrun an opponent who is no more than one size category larger than you</b> and <b> initiating an overrun provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver.</b></p>
<p>Also, a key point of difference that has been explicitly overruled by the trample ability is this part of overrun: <b>When you attempt to overrun a target, it can choose to avoid you, allowing you to pass through its square without requiring an attack. If your target does not avoid you, make a combat maneuver check as normal. If your maneuver is successful, you move through the target’s space. If your attack exceeds your opponent’s CMD by 5 or more, you move through the target’s space and the target is knocked prone.]</b> This part right here is addressed in the Trample ability: <b> This works just like the overrun combat maneuver, but the trampling creature does not need to make a check, it merely has to move over opponents in its path.</b> Therefore, no roll is needed by the creature that is making the Trample Special attack. Trample does not allow the target that is one size category smaller than the Creature with Trample to avoid it without making a reflex roll to get out of the way.</p>
<p>Everything is written in the Special Attack under Trample which is formatted on creatures as
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<i>Format:</i> trample (2d6+9, DC 20); <i>Location</i>: Special Attacks</p>
<p>I hope this helps to clear some things up.</p>
<p>Edited to close a bold tag.</p>Anvil Mithrashield wrote:Trample (Ex)
As a full-round action, a creature with the trample ability can attempt to overrun any creature that is at least one size category Smaller than itself. This works just like the overrun combat maneuver, but the trampling creature does not need to make a check, it merely has to move over opponents in its path. Targets of a trample take an amount of damage equal to the trampling creature’s slam damage + 1-1/2 times its Str modifier. Targets of a trample can...Zombre2019-07-16T22:18:27Z