Dragonchess Player wrote:
A Maximized, Empowered fireball would do 60 (10d6 maximized) + 5d6 (+50% damage dice). Note that the wording of Maximize Spell specifically states: "An empowered, maximized spell gains the separate benefits of each feat: the maximum result plus half the normally rolled result."
An Intensified, Maximized, Empowered fireball would do 90 (15d6 maximized) + 7d6 + 1d3 (+50% damage dice), as Ravingdork mentioned (although his formula may not make immediate sense to the non-math minded). Note that Intensified Spell actually increases the spell's maximum number of damage dice (typically based on CL); it doesn't add "additional" damage dice to the base spell, it just raises the cap (which is why it only raises the spell slot by one level).
I am under the same impression as "Dragonchess Player" on how the math is implemented with these metamagic feats.
I recently started playing the game, and stumbled across this combination and thought it would be interesting to play around with. I then got into a discussion with my GM on how to implement these 3 metamagics + my Orc bloodline when playing a LVL 15 Sorcerer.
My GM claims that all metamagics (unless otherwise specified) are implemented individually and always uses the base dmg of the spell. I'll explain more after some math examples on both our takes on the metamagic feats so it gets easier to understand my problem.
(Explanation to be continued further down;)
My take on the Math; Sorcerer Caster LVL: 15
NORMAL Fireball: 60(Maximized) + (10d6/2)(Empowered) + 10 (Orc Bloodline) = 100 (The only thing im not sure of is, does the Empowered dmg vary between 10-30dmg?)
INTENSIFIED Fireball: 90(Maximized) + (15d6/2)(Empowered) + 15 (Orc Bloodline) = 150 (Again, do the Empowered dmg vary between 7,5-45dmg.?)
The GM's take on the Math; Sorcerer Caster LVL: 15
NORMAL Fireball: 60(Maximized) + (10d6/2)(Empowered) + 10 (Orc bloodline) = 80-100 (GM states that the Empower dmg. varies from 10-30 dmg.)
INTENSIFIED Fireball: I need to split up in lines so i can explain GM's reasoning:
70 (Maximized);GM states that base dmg. is 10d6 and since i "roll 10 dices" i get +10 from Orc B.line)
+
5d6+5 (Empower);GM states that the 10d6/2 basically is 5d6 for rolling purposes and therefore i only roll 5 dices here and get + 5 from Orc B.line)
+
5d6+5 (Intensified);GM states that the base dmg. of the fireball is 10d6, and i get the intensified meta in addition to normal dmg, but that it does not increase the dices rolled for Maximize and Empower and i therefore get +5d6 and + 5 from Orc B.line)
Wich sums up to: 70+(5d6+5)+(5d6+5) = 90-140 Fireball dmg. (GM states that Empowered and Intensified dmg. are not affected by Maximize and therefore vary between 10-60 dmg.).
(Explanation continues from top intro;)
I tried to explain to GM that my take on the math is more logical because when you Intensified a spell you raise the CAP on the MAX DICE rolled.
Meaning, the BASE DMG that you apply to your metamagics would increase with your Caster level as long as you have the level required to raise the cap.
Example; (this is probably redundant, but just for clarification about the effects of intensified spell)
LVL 10: 10d6 Without / 10d6 With (It has raised the Cap of the Max Dice, but we don't have the Caster level required to raise it higher and gain no benefit)
LVL 11: 10d6 Without / 11d6 With
LVL 12: 10d6 Without / 12d6 With
LVL 13: 10d6 Without / 13d6 With
LVL 14: 10d6 Without / 14d6 With
LVL 15: 10d6 Without / 15d6 With (Max Dice Cap for spell reached)
LVL 16: 10d6 Without / 15d6 With (Cap for MAX Dices was reached on lvl 15, so we "only" get the +5d6 benefit)
Feel free to correct me if i made a mistake or overlooked something.
Even though i explained it like this, the GM is holding steadfast to the theory, that the base dmg. of the fireball spell can only be MAX 10d6 in regards to calculating metamagic. This you can see in the math examples further up.
I'm at wits end because the GM will not budge on the matter unless it comes from official channels i.e a official Paizo staffmember/moderator.
Isn't there someone from Paizo who can clarify this mess once and for all with an official post explaining the math behind this as it is INTENDED and not how people interpret it?
Please help? :)