Quinley Basdel

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Diehard states that you stabilize and must choose to go Unconscious or Disabled. If you decide to go Disabled, you can take a single move or standard action per round. Standard actions make you lose 1 HP and become unconscious and dying. If you decide to go Unconscious you get to enjoy automatically being stable.

Never Stop Shooting gives you all of the above, except if you go Disabled you can ONLY shoot a firearm, draw a firearm, reload a firearm, or do nothing. You can't move, you cant use a bluff check to feign death, you can't drink a health potion, etc.

So basically you can lay there and reload/draw guns until you shoot once, at which point you 1) lose 1 HP and 2) become unconscious and dying.

Quote:

Never Stop Shooting

Even when the chips are down, you keep on shooting.

Benefits: If your hit point total drops to 0 or lower but you are not dead, you may act as if disabled rather than dying (as if you possessed the Diehard feat). However, you can use your actions only to draw a firearm, reload a firearm, or attack with a firearm. If you have the Diehard feat, this trait also allows you to substitute your Wisdom score for your Constitution score for the purpose of determining the negative hit point total at which you die.

Quote:

Disabled

A character with 0 hit points, or one who has negative hit points but has become stable and conscious, is disabled. A disabled character may take a single move action or standard action each round (but not both, nor can he take full-round actions, but he can still take swift, immediate, and free actions). He moves at half speed. Taking move actions doesn't risk further injury, but performing any standard action [...] deals 1 point of damage after the completion of the act. Unless the action increased the disabled character's hit points, he is now in negative hit points and dying.


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I hate how a ranger can shoot way farther than a musket master. A musket has a 40 foot range increment, with five increments. A composite longbow has a 110 foot range increment, with ten increments.

Thus a Musket of Distance can shoot out to 400 feet, 450 with a deed, while a normal composite longbow shoots out to 1100 feet, 2200 with Distance.

Even a Rifle, an advanced firearm, has a range increment of 80 feet with ten range increments, shooting out to 800 feet (900 with a deed), up to 1800 with Distance.

I highly doubt that a good archer would be able to shoot farther than a good musketeer or rifleman.


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fretgod99 wrote:

I'd actually say that loading two barrels is roughly the same as loading one barrel twice. You may be able to draw two cartridges at once, but you've still got to drive them into the barrel separately. Reloading a muzzle loader isn't as simple as dropping a cartridge into the barrel. That has a lot to do with why I don't think loading an early firearm should ever be anything close to a free action.

But, the way the rules are constructed, a Gunslinger can reload a one or two-handed firearm with a free action with Rapid Reload, once 11th level is reached. In that context, limiting the Gunslinger's free actions makes a lot of sense. Until 11th level a Gunslinger can't make use of iteratives with a gun, anyway (unless I'm spacing on something).

I'll commission a masterwork double ram to seat the powder+bullet for both barrels at the same time. Pathfinder makes no mention of consumables beyond powder+bullet to fire, so nothing else needs to be loaded (such as flint or caps). EDIT: along these lines, note that part of the long reload times for muskets IRL was replacing flint/caps

If we want to make reloading anything more than free, which implies a Move action at least, then the Gunslinger is completely worthless.

Your reference to 11th level free reloads is probably referring the Lightning Reload deed, which can only be used once per round for only one barrel. That means paper cartridges are still required to drop the reload to a free in conjunction with Rapid Reload for any additional reloads.


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Psyren wrote:

You don't think reloading 16 times in 1 round is just a bit excessive? This is exactly the sort of thing the FAQ was meant to help DMs with.

3 may be too little, but 16?

My view of the FAQ is that by putting "3" in their example, the DM can be empowered to say "I know this says 3 over here, but I'm going to be generous and give you 6, or 8." And the player will be less inclined to bog down the game with arguments, because they're actually getting something that exceeds their expectations based on the suggested ruling.

I'd say ranger being able to retrieve an arrow, nock an arrow, pull back string and release eight times during an AoO is a bit excessive too if we are talking about the realm of normal human capability.


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How does Combat Reflexes with Improved Snap Shot fit in here?

Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:


Can a character with Snap Shot and Combat Reflexes make multiple attacks of opportunity with a ranged weapon, assuming that loading the ranged weapon is a free action?

Yes. As long as you can reload your weapon with a free action you can reload your weapon as part of the ranged attack attack of opportunity you are making with the Snap Shot feat.

A mid-level Gunslinger is going to have a Dex mod of about 7, which grants eight AoO with Combat Reflexes (with 15 foot reach, using Improved Snap Shot). Using a DB weapon, that is 16 free actions to reload.

Feasible IRL? Absolutely not. Should it be possible for the game? Why not? It costs five feats to get to Improved Snap Shot (which makes AoO with firearms feasible), plus a sixth for Combat Reflexes.

Keep in mind it would cost 86-96gp to take this many AoOs.


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Thanks in advance. I have been using this site for months and it is incredibly helpful. This post is lengthy, and split into three questions.

I have a few questions regarding how my Musket Master (MM) behaves with a Double-Barrel (DB) Musket. To avoid discussion of misfires I present a level 13 Musket Master, since level 13 Musket Masters never misfire with two-handed firearms.

Feats:

Rapid Reload (Musket): MM level 1
Gunsmithing: MM level 1
Fast Musket: MM level 3
Point Blank Shot: Human level 1
Precise Shot: Level 1
Weapon Focus (Musket): Level 3
Combat Reflexes: Level 4
Rapid Shot: Level 5
Snap Shot: Level 7
Improved Crit: Level 8
Improved Snap Shot: Level 9
Undecided: Level 11
Undecided: Level 12

First, let it be noted that a DB Musket can be reloaded as a free action (technically with two free actions, I suppose).

Reloading as a Free action:

Fast Musket (lvl 3 MM):

Quote:
At 3rd level, as long as the musket master has 1 grit point, she can reload any two-handed firearm as if it were a one-handed firearm.

One-handed firearms take a Standard action to reload.

Rapid Reloader (lvl 1 MM): grants Rapid Reload (Musket) which, along with Fask Musket, drops the reload to a Move action.

Alchemical cartridges (such as paper): drops the reload one step, to a Free action.

Quote:
Alchemical cartridges make loading a firearm easier [...] a move action becomes a free action.

Question 1: Using a Double Barrel Musket during a Full Attack

Gunslingers wrote:

This musket has two parallel barrels; each barrel can be shot independently as a separate action, or both can be fired at once as the same attack.

If both barrels are fired at once, they must both target the same creature or object, and the gun becomes wildly inaccurate, taking a –4 penalty on each shot. Each barrel of a double-barreled musket uses either a bullet and a single dose of black powder or an alchemical cartridge as ammunition.
Source

A level 13 Musket Master attacks at +13/+8/+3. A DB musket, taking the -4 to fire both barrels, effectively attacks at +9/+9/+4/+4/-1/-1. This is possible with Paper cartridges, since using them drops reloads to a Free action. Using Rapid Shot, the MM can attack at +7/+7/+7/+7/+2/+2/-3/-3. Yes, eight attack rolls.

Of course, each pair of bullets must be fired at the same target.

Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:

It is one action, two attack rolls. I fire as a standard action, it is two attack rolls. If I fire as part of a full-attack action, it is one of those attacks, but two attack rolls.

Find quote here

Stephen's above quote supports the case that eight attack rolls can be made during a full attack. There are four attacks during the full-attack action (using Rapid Shot), each making two attack rolls. Of course, if only a Standard action is available, only one attack action can be made: a single +9/+9 pair if both barrels are fired (note that Rapid Shot can only be used during a full-attack).

For simplicity, let's say the DB musket deals 1d12+10 damage upon a hit. Since each bullet is rolled independently, each bullet deals 1d12+10 damage upon a hit. Thus, each pair can deal up 2d12+20 damage; the entire attack can deal 8d12+80 (IF all hit). Each bullet also independently threatens/confirms its own crits.

Are there any problems with this?

Question 2: Dead Shot with a Double-Barrel Firearm

Dead Shot Description:

Dead Shot (Ex): At 7th level, as a full-round action, the gunslinger can take careful aim and pool all of her attack potential into a single, deadly shot. When she does this, she shoots the firearm at a single target, but makes as many attack rolls as she can, based on her base attack bonus. She makes the attack rolls in order from highest bonus to lowest, as if she were making a full attack. If any of the attack rolls hit the target, the gunslinger’s single attack is considered to have hit. For each additional successful attack roll beyond the first, the gunslinger increases the damage of the shot by the base damage dice of the firearm. For instance, if a 7th-level gunslinger firing a musket hits with both attacks, she does 2d12 points of damage with the shot, instead of 1d12 points of damage, before adding any damage modifiers. Precision damage and extra damage from weapon special abilities (such as flaming) are added with damage modifiers and are not increased by this deed. If one or more rolls are critical threats, she confirms the critical once using her highest base attack bonus –5. For each critical threat beyond the first, she reduces this penalty by 1 (to a maximum of 0). The gunslinger only misfires on a dead shot if all the attack rolls are misfires. She cannot perform this deed with a blunderbuss or other scatter weapon when attacking creatures in a cone. The gunslinger must spend 1 grit point to perform this deed.

Unfortunately this description is ambiguous in regard to DB firearms. Does a DB Musket add just one more attack roll? Does it add three? If three, is Dead Shot resolved with all 6 die together, or as two sets of 3?

Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:
You can use both shots of a double barrel [musket] with dead shot. Both attacks take a -4 to the attack roll. Each shot gains each attack roll with the same effect, but with lower accuracy. (Emphasis added)

By Stephen's wording, I interpret a DB Deadshot as two independent Deadshots, each with their own set of three attack rolls and critical chances. Effectively, max damage (without crit) is (3d12+10) + (3d12+10).

The advantage of Deadshot is it's higher DR penetration and lower use of ammunition, which really starts to add up (6gp/shot to reload for free). The cost is lower total damage, the consumption of a full-round action, precluding Rapid Shot, only targeting one creature, and spending one grit (or Signature Deed if used on Dead Shot).

Question 3: Improved Snap Shot + Combat Reflexes + DB Musket

Assume Dexterity mod is 7.

Snap Shot wrote:
While wielding a ranged weapon with which you have Weapon Focus, you threaten squares within 5 feet of you. You can make attacks of opportunity with that ranged weapon. You do not provoke attacks of opportunity when making a ranged attack as an attack of opportunity.
Improved Snap Shot wrote:
You threaten an additional 10 feet with Snap Shot.
Combat Reflexes wrote:
You may make a number of additional attacks of opportunity per round equal to your Dexterity bonus. With this feat, you may also make attacks of opportunity while flat-footed.

Thus, the MM threatens AoO within 15 feet. He can make 8 (1+dex mod) AoOs per round, though he can only target the same creature once.

With a DB Musket, there shouldn't be any issue in firing both barrels during each AoO right?

Note this errata regarding reloading between AoO:
Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:

Can a character with Snap Shot and Combat Reflexes make multiple attacks of opportunity with a ranged weapon, assuming that loading the ranged weapon is a free action?

Yes. As long as you can reload your weapon with a free action you can reload your weapon as part of the ranged attack attack of opportunity you are making with the Snap Shot feat.

Thanks!