Monkeygod: That's a very unmeasured response to my very measured posts. Very few people are saying that it's the end of Paizo and Pathfinder and those few who have usually admit to going overboard. I've never suggested that it's the end of anything. This conversation is not about the end of the world.
What it IS about is a concern that the Mythical Adventure rules will play a more significant role in future Paizo publications than other optional rules have. And if that's the case, then the Mythical rules won't be quite so optional. Using the rules in a AP that will take a considerable amount of rework to circumvent is one of the signs that this may be the case.
Some people just want it to be known that we'd prefer the rules to remain truly optional. Personally, I don't mind one AP using the rules. I just hope that it doesn't become the established rule. Even then, I'm willing to withhold my ultimate judgement until next year when it's actually published.
Take all of this, and ask yourself, do you really, honestly, deep down in the darkest corners of your heart and soul, think that Paizo is going to create a new Adventure Path that actually forces its costumers to do something they may not want to?? Such as buy a new rulebook, and use rules they actively oppose???
Here's a quote from James Jacob's "ask me a question thread":
At this point, I'm thinking that yes, you'll need Mythic rules to run that adventure path. You can run it without them, but only if you're comfortable reworking encounters and adding in a lot of NEW encounters to boost your party's XP total higher. Or perhaps run it for a group of 8 instead of a group of 4. But still... many NPCs and monsters in the adventure path will use mythic rules.
So yes, I do think that's exactly what's going to happen, which is why I'm arguing that as an 'optional' rule system, Mythic Adventures is different from what's been done before. Now as others have said, people like me who aren't particularly interested in Mythic rules (assuming my opinion doesn't actually change from the playtest and the eventual final publication of said rules) can simply skip the AP.
Now personally, I don't have a problem with that. In fact, I'm likely to keep my AP subscription anyway, just to see how Paizo incorporates the rules into the adventure whether I like them or not. I'm open minded about that.
Taking all that into account you might see why some people who aren't fond of higher level or even mythic roleplay may have some particular concerns about how the introduction of these so-called 'optional' rules might effect the game overall. You don't have to agree with them, but I think it should be acknowledged that this has the potential for a significant impact on the future of the game and concerns in that direction shouldn't be quite so quickly dismissed as ridiculous.
Weird. I can't understand why a) someone would want to make a couple of disruptive characters in the group like that in the first place or b) why you'd get so upset by something that's just an aspect of the game.
Admittedly, though, a 'Jay' afflicted with Lycanthrope is kind of funny.
But hey, this brings up something else I don't like in fantasy games: PCs modeled after non-fantasy characters. That's not an all-inclusive statement. I don't mind an Indiana Jones type character but don't try to play Robocop, please.
Yeah, I hate the magic shops too. My biggest complaint with D&D for years has been the proliferation of magic items. I wish they were a lot more rare and difficult to acquire. I'm currently in a campaign where I have two +1 scimitars (made of different materials) and just found a 3rd one. It just doesn't feel right to have so many of them lying around.
I'd be all for dwarves, though I'd prefer to see a dwarven society like that in Dragon Age to Gimli of LotRs.
The only problem is, since JJ hates dwarves I doubt that'd ever happen.
My second choice would probably be halflings. A whole AP devoted to halflings could be a lot of fun, though once again you'd have associations with Tolkien.
The race I don't want to see an AP devoted to is Gnomes. Unfortunately, I think they'd be the most likely choice.
Half Elf Spirit Ranger / 2
As they travel through the swamp to the village, Tevyn's eyes the landscape around him with uncertainty. He finds himself holding his bow with an arrow lightly nocked. Looking to the others, he grimaces. "Something isn't right. There is a change here. I don't like it."
Tevyn slows as they reach the remains of the village and he looks around at the damage with interest. "You did a good job here."
He kneels to examine the ground for tracks.
Survival (Tracking): 1d20 + 9 ⇒ (12) + 9 = 21
I would use the survey idea if I had that many players to choose from. As it is, there are such a dearth of players in my area that I either take whoever wants to play or I don't play at all.
Fortunately, my group is made up of some good guys so I don't mind the limitations. I do wish, though, that they'd take their choices a little more seriously. Running right into a death trap might be what your character would do: Killing them for their lack of caution is what my NPCs would do. The same rule applies both ways.
My general response to the complaint is that if you don't want to die, create a character that's got a little more interest in survival and stay in character with that.
There's no anger there, though. Just frustration.
Pussl gets so angry at Reta's tirade that the only thing that stops him from killing her on the spot is the need to hold his hands over his ears.
Stinker, sensing his anger, begins to growl in Reta's direction, fur standing stiffly from its neck.
Pussl steps forward. "Pussl and Stinker kill Vorka while Barking Dog," he gestures at Reta, "tries to mate with Chiggo. Pussl and Stinker also kill Long Legs Eats Goblin Babies Many while Barking Dog break her weapons. If not for Pussl," he claps his chest hard with a hand, "no goblin live to return except for Old Foofelah, who is too ugly to kill."
I'm tremendously excited about this. When I first got into Pathfinder in a big way a year ago, the first thing I wanted to do was order Rise of the Runelords. Then I discovered that getting ahold of all the copies was hard to do. Then I found out that it wasn't even using the pathfinder rules.
So I was one of those who posted in the thread that I'd pay over a hundred bucks for a new, updated, hardcopy version of the AP. Now I find that not only is it going to be released as I'd hoped but it's also going to have a bit of new content as well for much less than a hundred bucks?
Count me in! Even if I have to wait a year to get it. Thanks, Paizo, for being so cool. Preorder placed.
I was just discussing Ultimate Combat with a group of friends just a couple of days ago and we all agreed that one of our favorite things about Pathfinder (and Paizo) is the development of Archetypes rather than Prestige Classes. None of us ever really liked prestige classes and we're thrilled that Paizo hasn't been including new ones in the Ultimate series.
Pussl steps forward to take the challenge, glowering at all the goblins who insulted him. Stink moves up behind him, growling fiercely with his hackles standing up.
With one hand in the air, Pussl begins to sing.
"Me be Pussl, me be brave,
Stink be pet he do be foul,
Bite you, scratch you, tear you up,
Left in swamp, little Pussl did not die,
Pussl smart and strong, he knows enough,
Pussl gestures to Stink with one hand, extending two fingers up and then down. The wolverine stands up and then lowers his front legs, appearing to bow to Pussl. At the same time, Pussl makes a motion with the other hand and a group of goblins who had been mocking him suddenly find themselves surrounded by plants reaching for their legs and arms, entangling them where they stand.
Casts Entangle, reflex DC 13.
With scarcely a pause, Pussl continues his song.
"As Chief instructs, Pussl obey,
Perform Check: 1d20 - 1 + 1 ⇒ (16) - 1 + 1 = 16
Pussl Ticknest and his wolverine listen quietly to the other goblins and their bold pronouncements. Dressed in a badly tanned suit of leather armor festooned with leaves and feathers and tufts of hair from various animals, he has smeared black mud over his face and armor. He wears a cap made of spotted badger skin and carries a simple wooden club.
Scowling at Old Foofelah, Pussl grunts at Chiggo's words. "Pussl think Foofelah die many moons ago, just not know it yet. She be just bones but worms don't like taste of her."
Male Human (Andoran) Fighter Lvl 5
Lorenz stands from examining one of the cannibal bodies. "I still don't understand what you are all afraid of. These cannibals don't seem to be much of a threat. They wear no armor, their weapons are broken and they don't seem to have any concept of combat strategy other than foam at the mouth and charge. And if they eat people, they've probably been eating each other too so it's not like there's going to be hundreds of them."
He kicks at the hilt of one the broken weapons. "I think there's a greater danger in assualting them at their stronghold or village or whatever it is than there is of them attacking us here. Why should we go through all the trouble to move the camp right now? Better to wait here, rest and recover and be prepared for another attack. Then when everyone's feeling better, we can investigate this tree-woman or try to get a good look at the camp."
Male Human (Andoran) Fighter Lvl 5
"I was just trying to help. They went onto the ship, alone, with mold-men who had already tried to kill us. I thought that someone should be there, just in case everything went wrong and when I did she said...really horrible things about me. She made it quite clear what she thinks about me. She acted as though I'm some sort of...monster!"
He glanced at Makoa. "I said you wouldn't understand. I just...I thought I finally had friends, and yesterday I realized that I was wrong all along. I'm just in the way, like always."
He sighed and then shook his head. "Well now that we know how to get off the island, you won't have to be bothered by me much longer. We should eat and get ready to move the camp tomorrow. There's more important things to do. I'm sorry I caused so much fuss."
Lorenz gets up and begins packing up his belongings, determined to put an end to the discussion.
Because really, this whining bs is annoying even me! :)
I've made a practice of trying to come up with unusual ways for parties to be brought together.
My favorite was having all the characters falsely arrested. We began the game play with everyone in a set of jail cells, unsure of how they got there or why. It was a pretty effective way for everyone to have time to roleplay their introductions and give them a reason to hang together (or they'll hang apart!) from the start.
Male Dwarf Paladin / 4
Feldspar stands before the table, two hands placed on the haft of his dwarven war axe, the large, shining blade firmly pressed to the floor. He listens to Elyk's speech without expression, only nodding a couple of times. He waited as the others shared their thoughts and only then began to speak.
"T'is my fervent wish to kill ta' orcs until these bright grounds are muddy red wit' their blood," he said in a low, rumbling voice. "I've dreamt for years of doing nothin' else but reclaim our cities, our people, and our place in ta' great world. Most of all, I've dreamt of smashin' ta' orcs so hard tha' they will never again even think to take our cities from us."
He paused, wishing he had a mug of ale to moisten his tongue. He knew his miner's words were rough and unpolished but he needed to speak his peace.
"P'raps Torag's cleric is right. I ha' no wish to sneak through these upper lands. Our success t'is vital, not only fer our glories but fer ta' survival of our people, our clans. So I too think ta' Deep Roads are ta' way for us. However." Feldspar paused again, and showed the first sign of unease in the way that he shifted his stance.
"However. T'is our King's wish, may Torag guide him to long years and great victories, that we also seek out our brethren who ha' remained in the light, lo' those long years past. He ha' made this wish second of three. Ha' any of ye knowledge of how we might accomplish both? Might we emerge from ta' Deep Roads in a middle ground tha' we might seek our brothers and nae be forced to stealth o'er much?"
With that, relieved to have no more words to say, Feldspar fell quiet and waited for the wisdom of the others.