Banatine wrote:
That's not how adding an enchantment works. It's based on the bonus cost of the ability, not the weapon. Paizo wrote:
Nowhere in any of that does the price of Spell Storing change because of the weapon you're attaching it to. I'm not sure exactly what mechanic you're using to say that the cost now doubles because they're in the process of enchanting the weapon. If that is the case, well all the more reason to be cautious about when and how you work on it, but that's no reason that it can't be done at all. Still, seeing as wondrous items as Von Marshal has pointed out may be used to adjust certain similar effects, it seems like it's not expressly forbidden that these effects cannot be added at all, just that the process may still need to be written.
Banatine wrote: I see your quotation, but it only specifies what effect a DYING character is suffering. It never says anything about a DEAD character. Show me where it says a DEAD character cannot act, without 'house-ruling' it. See, sometimes being rediculous is the only way to get your point across. Oh for the love of bullets. Fine, you want to nitpick the rules away, technically it doesn't say that the dying status stops when you die. Just that you have the added state of being dead. There, now I've been ridiculous to get my point across too. Banatine wrote:
For the record, you've already gotten belligerent. As for following only the letter, sure, I can kind of agree with you on that. But that's why my point states that no clarification means you can't assume that you can't just because it isn't said any more than you can assume that you can because it isn't said. That's why I'm asking for developer clarification, not house rule decisions. If I wanted a house rule decision, I'd say that only the Magus can do it, seeing as its only a masterwork weapon in anyone else's hand. I'd specify that they would require the Craft Magical Arms and Armor feat, and that they would then need to meet any of the other crafting requirements. Personally, I also like the example of the Daimyo feature from Oriental Adventures, and would also allow that in my games. As it stands, whatever. /handshake On to the next point... Ice Titan wrote: Conserve resources better. Buy rods of ectoplasmic metamagic. Buy a secondary weapon that breaks DR silver, DR cold iron, etc. I'm assuming you're fighting a ghost-- Constructs. Ice Titan wrote: the black blade is +1 and deals half damage with no arcane pool point expenditure. I'm not sure where you're getting that even a little bit. Ice Titan wrote: If the DM is making you fight monsters with DR 10, DR 15 at level 5, it's not the magus's shortcomings which are crippling your character-- it's the DM's. At that point, just start cheating if you feel your DM is being absurd. Just DR 5, but that's the issue. My best and in some cases only way to bypass that as a Magus with the Black Blade is with Arcane Points.
Banatine wrote:
Don't be facetious. Especially when you're wrong. Paizo wrote:
Paizo wrote:
Paizo wrote:
I don't see Fighter listed there. I see the casters that can explicitly cast that spell and what level they need to be to do so. If a Fighter manages to get themselves the ability to cast lv.7 Wizard spells, or a pair of particularly fancy boots, he sure as hell could. Paizo wrote:
It does not explicitly state that you can add special effects to the Black Blade, it also does not explicitly state that you cannot. Until we get clarification on this rule it's house ruled, and I can live with that, but it would be nice to get some clarification.
LazarX wrote: Actually the answers are no/no/no. +5/+5 is an absolute limit for ALL non-epic weapons no matter how you get there, standard enchantment, paladin divine bond, Scrollmaster wizard, Mage Bullet, Arcane Pool, bladebound, etc. That's been stated time and time again. Okay, here's the issue. A) With the exception of Question One, these questions and answers do not address the concept of spending actual gold on the weapon. They refer explicitly to the inherent bonuses the Black Blade gains as the Bladebound Magus levels up. 2) Players have said that but there is NO POINT in the writing of the game where it explicitly states that the Black Blade cannot be given specific abilities. I agree with No to the first. I agree with No to the second. I agree with No to the third. I am not asking these questions. I am asking this question, and a follow-up; can a Magus can spend gold instead of Arcane Points, because he chooses to, to add special effects to his blade that would not take him past the +5 limit of Special Abilities. Follow-up; if not, where does it specify this explicitly in the rules. Not a "Well because of class features, he doesn't need to." I am looking for a "No, he cannot because on Page X [ or a link for those of us who do not have all the books ] it states that the Black Blade cannot be given Special abilities even if the Magus pays the costs."
Banatine wrote:
I can agree with 1, but 2 is outright incorrect. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin#TOC-Divine-Bond-Sp- Divine Bond if taken as a weapon gains +1 bonus and various other permanent enchantments as a Paladin levels up. Banatine wrote:
A weapon is a weapon is a weapon, and as it has a +1 enhancement already [ in the hands of the Bladebound, at least ], then it already meets the prerequisite for adding additional effects such as Keen, or Shock. Magic Weapons wrote: Some magic weapons have special abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses (except where specifically noted). A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents, including those from character abilities and spells) higher than +10. A weapon with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus. Weapons cannot possess the same special ability more than once. For example, Dueling does not have a modified bonus, it has a flat value. The same could be said for the various bonuses of the Black Blade. Telepathy isn't a +3 cost, it's a 2,893gp [ random number provided for the sake of argument ] cost, so it doesn't equate to a +#, and therefore does not stack with the Enhancement bonuses towards the +5/+5 limits. And a Black Blade can be destroyed so long as its pool of Arcane Points have been exhausted, at which point it could be destroyed in the same way any other weapon can be destroyed. This is not exactly one specific manner. Banatine wrote:
I'll give you some credit towards the artifact comparison, but it would still be nice to see some developer clarification on this front.
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
I like that knowing that the CL listed at the top is not an implicit requirement for crafting, but I am having a difficult time finding if it factors in to the DC. I understand that some items have mutable CL's, such as the Pearls of Power, but using that as an example, would a lv.1 Pearl of Power be DC5+1, and then lv.9 Pearl of power be DC5+17 as listed? Similarly, the example listed for Belt of Giant Strength says that the caster level requirement is only 3rd level, because it's a lv.2 spell, which becomes available at Caster Level 3, but the CL for the Belt still says 8. So is that DC5+3, or DC5+8 assuming your character is lv.3, and also has Bear's Strength? I'm feeling kind of lost on calculating DC's for magical items, and this seems to be the one piece of clarification missing in the message boards.
LazarX wrote: Actually that limit is for EVERYONE. +5/+5 is the limit for non-epic weapons. No matter what they are, divine bond, arcane pool, or straight enchantment via craft magic arms and armor. Exactly. If that limit is for EVERYONE, no matter what they are, then that means that it is reasonable that additional bonuses could in fact be added to the Black Blade so long as they fall under that limit. If I add a +1 bonus, and I use an Arcane Point, as per the Divine Bond, my Arcane Point addition would only bring my Black Blade up to the +5 total and simply not push it past that point. But to say that the Black Blade cannot have these bonuses means that +5/+5 is for everyone except the Black Blade who gets +5/+0. Von Marshal wrote: From what I have read about the black blade (if you don't over think it) is that the magical blade has its own properties and the magus can use his Arcane Pool to add the listed properties to it just like a normal magus can add properties to his +1 Spell Storing blade. The problem with this is that it's a little short sighted. As a Bladebound Magus, I am currently in the middle of a dungeon where due to damage resistance I have had to expend 3 Arcane Points to deal any sort of reasonable damage against my opponents, and this is within the first few legs of the dungeon. We are lv.5, my Magus has an INT score of 18. The Bladebound Magus only gets 1 Arcane Point for every three levels, meaning he does not get a second point until lv.6. This means I have only two Arcane Points for the rest of the dungeon as a whole. In two more creatures I run risk of becoming entirely incapable of dealing any significant damage with my primary weapon because I have used all of my Arcane Points because I cannot separately enhance my weapon. Von Marshal wrote: The black blade does not get the spell storing ability on his weapon in any shape form or fasion that I can find. Thats the only draw back i can find for the BLack BLade vs the regualr magus in weapons. He doesn't have to buy his tho. So Spell storeing, thundering, and acid damage seem to be beyond the black blade. (+1 Spell Storing Thundering Corrosive Sword) seems to be what a regular magus ends up with plus a +# and his pool gives the rest. the Black Blade gets bonuses the reg magus doesnt get like extra damage (black blade strike) an unbreakable weapon, energy replacement for melee damage(for those with dr), teleport blade, eventually a larger ap with tranfer arcana, spell defence if you get high enough(yeah free sr) and life drink if you live long enough. So. is all that a resonable replacement for Spell storing and a 8d on crits and a d6 of acid damage........ i think they are evenish, depending on dungeon diving or roleplaying misshapes. You decide Further, what if I instead end up using all my Arcane Points for Spell Recall? You're saying that by being unable to add additional effects, the Bladebound Magus must choose between the effective use several class features, and standard weapon options available to any other character, archetype or otherwise. I have gone over the Bladebound archetype several times, reveiwing it repeatedly, trying to see where it would specify that the Black Blade cannot be otherwise be given magical effects, and I cannot find anything that would explicitly preclude it. I agree that the major challenges would lay in other smiths or crafters being able to enhance it, as it is a standard weapon in anyone elses hands, but I do not see this as being a hard no. Especially seeing as suggested Arcana for the class are things that would expend additional Arcane Points of the very limited pool the archetype has.
Magicdealer wrote:
Yes, the Samurai added in the Oriental Adventures book for 3.0/.5 [ There was kind of a debate about which it was intended for at the time ] had the Daiymo Class feature, which was pretty awesome. It would allow you to improve the base weapon by sacrificing wealth and gained loot at full value to increase the bonus and abilities of the blade. Magicdealer wrote:
In the game that I'm a part of with my Black Blade, I'd be all for this honestly. The blade happens to be the sword of my Magus' grandfather, who has transferred his consciousness into the blade. Considering he was a powerful warrior and Magus in his day as well, it would make plenty of sense for the ego to be more powerful, as well as the Int/Wis modifiers. I think for the most part though the issue is pretty straight forward. A Magi should be able to improve the black blade outside of requiring Arcana to do so on a temporary basis, but not past the +5 Enhancement / +5 Feature / +5 Temporary limitations that any other weapons would be restricted to. My opinion would be to allow additional features, but not enhancement bonus, as the weapon will hit a +5 in its own right in time, and updating it early would cause balance issues. Consider the fact that a +1 Black Blade [ lv.3-4 ] could be turned into a +2 for only 3k if the Magi has Craft Magic Arms and Armor. Here's the math on that... +1 Bonus; 2k
This would put a +3 Black Blade into the hands of a lv.5 Magi, and that is a bit powerful for the level.
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
That's actually a pretty good way to handle the method, Sebastian, thanks for the suggestion! You have a very good point; as far as anyone else is concerned, using the Black Blade just makes it a Mastercraft Sword [ Reskinned Katana in my case ] so it would be impossible for someone to add an additional enhancement bonus to it. Seeing as my Magus is also our party craftsman, having him do the work personally would make sense, especially with the bond he is supposed to have with his weapon as it is. All told, I still think it couldn't hurt for a developer to weigh in on this issue!
LazarX wrote:
Here is the specific reason I'm wondering if money can be spent, not if it needs to be spent. I understand that I can use my Arcane Pool points for adding enhancements to a weapon as I so need, but those are used for a lot more than just weapon enhancements. To wit: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/magus-arcana/paizo---mag us-arcana/pool-strike-su By spending an Arcane Pool Point, I can add 2d6 [ my Magus is currently lv.5 ] to my damage. But making sure that my blade is Keen would be exceptionally beneficial also. If I only have 5 Pool Points-- which I will remind you that the Bladebound Magus gets significantly less of to begin with at a maximum of 6+Int Bonus instead of 10+Int Bonus --then I have to decide between the extra damage, or the possibility of getting a critical hit. That's a hell of a gamble. I'm not looking to exceed the +5 enhanchement / +5 special ability cap, but it would be odd if I could not add special abilities of any sort, especially considering that any weapon held by any other character that does not happen to be a black blade does not have that limit. In short; I can create a Thundering, Shock, Throwing, Returning, Keen +5 katana, but I can't have a +2 Keen Black Blade if I spend the cash? Seems a little odd. Some clarification on this would be very appreciated.
Kierato wrote: Mage armor is an armor bonus, it does not apply to touch attacks. You'll have to excuse me, because I don't have the books so I cannot provide the page number, but this is according to the d20srd. d20srd.org wrote: An armor bonus applies to Armor Class and is granted by armor or by a spell or magical effect that mimics armor. Armor bonuses stack with all other bonuses to Armor Class (even with natural armor bonuses) except other armor bonuses. An armor bonus doesn't apply against touch attacks, except for armor bonuses granted by force effects (such as the mage armor spell) which apply against incorporeal touch attacks, such as that of a shadow. I bring this up, because I've been trying to figure out if Bracers of Armor count to touch AC as well. Because they use the Mage Armor spell, I'm inclined to think that they do, but I haven't found anything that specifically states yes OR no. |