Vid Avehn's page

Clearly explained crafting rules that allow for easy item creation for both mundane and magical items.

Definitely Magus

Vid Avehn wrote:

I'd specify that they would require the Craft Magical Arms and Armor feat, and that they would then need to meet any of the other crafting requirements. Personally, I also like the example of the Daimyo feature from Oriental Adventures, and would also allow that in my games.

I quite like your way of handling it. It certainly works, and if i did allow it, i would probably do it the same way tbh, but it touches on the other element you could find problematic.

Lets say your in the middle of your progress on enchanting your Black Blade with Spellstoring. Then you hit, for example, 9th level. Your blade just went up to +3, and suddenly the cost and time required to 'finish' enchanting the blade has doubled.

Now, you CAN'T let your player say 'i'm close to leveling, so i gotta do this quick.' He has no way of knowing his blade is just about to become stronger to the point of complicating his work. There is no way you can avoid this situation happening without meta-gaming. I mean you could always just have nothing happen during the time, but sometimes events don't allow it.

This is the situation i wouldn't like to deal with as a DM, as the player then says 'why do i suddenly have to pay twice as much to give it spellstoring now? that's bogus!' and the argument starts, and the fun drains away...

That's not how adding an enchantment works. It's based on the bonus cost of the ability, not the weapon.

Spell Storing

Aura Strong evocation (plus aura of stored spell); CL 12th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, creator must be a caster of at least 12th level; Price +1 bonus.

A spell storing weapon allows a spellcaster to store a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level in the weapon. (The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action.) Anytime the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires. (This special ability is an exception to the general rule that casting a spell from an item takes at least as long as casting that spell normally.) Once the spell has been cast from the weapon, a spellcaster can cast any other targeted spell of up to 3rd level into it. The weapon magically imparts to the wielder the name of the spell currently stored within it. A randomly rolled spell storing weapon has a 50% chance to have a spell stored in it already.

Nowhere in any of that does the price of Spell Storing change because of the weapon you're attaching it to. I'm not sure exactly what mechanic you're using to say that the cost now doubles because they're in the process of enchanting the weapon. If that is the case, well all the more reason to be cautious about when and how you work on it, but that's no reason that it can't be done at all.

Still, seeing as wondrous items as Von Marshal has pointed out may be used to adjust certain similar effects, it seems like it's not expressly forbidden that these effects cannot be added at all, just that the process may still need to be written.

I see your quotation, but it only specifies what effect a DYING character is suffering. It never says anything about a DEAD character. Show me where it says a DEAD character cannot act, without 'house-ruling' it. See, sometimes being rediculous is the only way to get your point across.

Oh for the love of bullets. Fine, you want to nitpick the rules away, technically it doesn't say that the dying status stops when you die. Just that you have the added state of being dead. There, now I've been ridiculous to get my point across too.

If the word even means anything in a game where you can turn a dragon into a chicken with a couple of silly words and gestures, and you can't throw balls of fire without a handful of bat poo...

Following only the letter of the rules means you end up with a system with many, gaping, logical holes. If we are only following what is explicitly stated, then AM BARBARIAN becomes a perfectly viable character build, and he is literally the definition of facetious!

Now i think we should agree to disagree, as i fear i might start becoming belligerent if we continue like this much longer! *offers a handshake*

For the record, you've already gotten belligerent. As for following only the letter, sure, I can kind of agree with you on that. But that's why my point states that no clarification means you can't assume that you can't just because it isn't said any more than you can assume that you can because it isn't said.

That's why I'm asking for developer clarification, not house rule decisions. If I wanted a house rule decision, I'd say that only the Magus can do it, seeing as its only a masterwork weapon in anyone else's hand.

I'd specify that they would require the Craft Magical Arms and Armor feat, and that they would then need to meet any of the other crafting requirements. Personally, I also like the example of the Daimyo feature from Oriental Adventures, and would also allow that in my games.

As it stands, whatever. /handshake

On to the next point...

Conserve resources better. Buy rods of ectoplasmic metamagic. Buy a secondary weapon that breaks DR silver, DR cold iron, etc. I'm assuming you're fighting a ghost--

Constructs.

the black blade is +1 and deals half damage with no arcane pool point expenditure.

I'm not sure where you're getting that even a little bit.

If the DM is making you fight monsters with DR 10, DR 15 at level 5, it's not the magus's shortcomings which are crippling your character-- it's the DM's. At that point, just start cheating if you feel your DM is being absurd.

Just DR 5, but that's the issue. My best and in some cases only way to bypass that as a Magus with the Black Blade is with Arcane Points.

Answer: No he cannot.

Follow-up: Where does it specify explicitly in the rules that once a character is dead he is no longer allowed to take actions? Where does it specify explicitly that a Fighter can't use Teleport by clicking his heels three times and saying "there's no place like home"?

The rules tell you what you CAN do. Not what you CAN'T.

If you COULD further enchant the black blade, it would say in the entry that you CAN. It does not say anything about it. Therefore, you CANNOT!

I'm not sure how i can explain this any clearer.

Don't be facetious. Especially when you're wrong.

Injury and Death

Dying (Negative Hit Points)

If your hit point total is negative, but not equal to or greater than your Constitution score, you're dying.

A dying character immediately falls unconscious and can take no actions.

A dying character loses 1 hit point every round. This continues until the character dies or becomes stable.

Dead

When your character's current hit points drop to a negative amount equal to his Constitution score or lower, or if he succumbs to massive damage, he's dead. A character can also die from taking ability damage or suffering an ability drain that reduces his Constitution score to 0 (see Special Abilities).

Certain types of powerful magic, such as raise dead and resurrection, can restore life to a dead character.

Caster Level

A spell's power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to her class level in the class she's using to cast the spell.

You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level.

In the event that a class feature or other special ability provides an adjustment to your caster level, that adjustment applies not only to effects based on caster level (such as range, duration, and damage dealt), but also to your caster level check to overcome your target's spell resistance and to the caster level used in dispel checks (both the dispel check and the Dc of the check).

Teleport

Teleport

School conjuration (teleportation); Level sorcerer/wizard 5, summoner 4, magus 5, witch 5; Domain travel 5; Bloodline abyssal 7, arcane 7

I don't see Fighter listed there. I see the casters that can explicitly cast that spell and what level they need to be to do so. If a Fighter manages to get themselves the ability to cast lv.7 Wizard spells, or a pair of particularly fancy boots, he sure as hell could.

Boots of Teleportation

Boots of Teleportation

Aura moderate conjuration; CL 9th

Slot feet; Price 49,000 gp; Weight 3 lbs.

Description
Any character wearing this footwear may teleport three times per day, exactly as if he had cast the spell of the same name.

Construction Requirements
Craft Wondrous Item, teleport; Cost 24,500 gp

It does not explicitly state that you can add special effects to the Black Blade, it also does not explicitly state that you cannot. Until we get clarification on this rule it's house ruled, and I can live with that, but it would be nice to get some clarification.

Actually the answers are no/no/no. +5/+5 is an absolute limit for ALL non-epic weapons no matter how you get there, standard enchantment, paladin divine bond, Scrollmaster wizard, Mage Bullet, Arcane Pool, bladebound, etc. That's been stated time and time again.

Okay, here's the issue.

A) With the exception of Question One, these questions and answers do not address the concept of spending actual gold on the weapon. They refer explicitly to the inherent bonuses the Black Blade gains as the Bladebound Magus levels up.

2) Players have said that but there is NO POINT in the writing of the game where it explicitly states that the Black Blade cannot be given specific abilities.

I agree with No to the first. I agree with No to the second. I agree with No to the third.

I am not asking these questions.

I am asking this question, and a follow-up; can a Magus can spend gold instead of Arcane Points, because he chooses to, to add special effects to his blade that would not take him past the +5 limit of Special Abilities.

Follow-up; if not, where does it specify this explicitly in the rules. Not a "Well because of class features, he doesn't need to." I am looking for a "No, he cannot because on Page X [ or a link for those of us who do not have all the books ] it states that the Black Blade cannot be given Special abilities even if the Magus pays the costs."

For what ever reason, it isn't letting me edit. Yes, that should be Bull's Strength, not Bear's.

The simplest reason for the inability to enchant Black Blades come from looking at it's properties:

1. It is a magic item that cannot be created by PCs.

2. Many if it's rules fall outside of the 'standard rules' for item creation. (such as gaining power with the wielder, and no other weapon does that.

I can agree with 1, but 2 is outright incorrect.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin#TOC-Divine-Bond-Sp-

Divine Bond if taken as a weapon gains +1 bonus and various other permanent enchantments as a Paladin levels up.

3. It does not have a 'market value', which is always the base needed to determine how much it would cost to enchant it anyway.

4. It can only be destroyed in one specific manor.

A weapon is a weapon is a weapon, and as it has a +1 enhancement already [ in the hands of the Bladebound, at least ], then it already meets the prerequisite for adding additional effects such as Keen, or Shock.

Some magic weapons have special abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses (except where specifically noted). A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents, including those from character abilities and spells) higher than +10. A weapon with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus. Weapons cannot possess the same special ability more than once.

For example, Dueling does not have a modified bonus, it has a flat value. The same could be said for the various bonuses of the Black Blade. Telepathy isn't a +3 cost, it's a 2,893gp [ random number provided for the sake of argument ] cost, so it doesn't equate to a +#, and therefore does not stack with the Enhancement bonuses towards the +5/+5 limits.

And a Black Blade can be destroyed so long as its pool of Arcane Points have been exhausted, at which point it could be destroyed in the same way any other weapon can be destroyed. This is not exactly one specific manner.

If you combine those features, what do you get? A minor artifact! And can you enchant artifacts? no, because their magic is boyond mortal means.

The Black Blade is a sword made of solid Plot-onium, and nothing is changing anything ebout it but the GM!

I'll give you some credit towards the artifact comparison, but it would still be nice to see some developer clarification on this front.

Evil Lincoln wrote:

Can I get a final pronouncement on whether the CL listing at the top of the block is an implicit requirement for crafting?

Relevant FAQ here. (Short answer: if it's not listed under Construction Requirements, it's not a requirement to create the item.)

I like that knowing that the CL listed at the top is not an implicit requirement for crafting, but I am having a difficult time finding if it factors in to the DC. I understand that some items have mutable CL's, such as the Pearls of Power, but using that as an example, would a lv.1 Pearl of Power be DC5+1, and then lv.9 Pearl of power be DC5+17 as listed?

Similarly, the example listed for Belt of Giant Strength says that the caster level requirement is only 3rd level, because it's a lv.2 spell, which becomes available at Caster Level 3, but the CL for the Belt still says 8. So is that DC5+3, or DC5+8 assuming your character is lv.3, and also has Bear's Strength?

I'm feeling kind of lost on calculating DC's for magical items, and this seems to be the one piece of clarification missing in the message boards.

Actually that limit is for EVERYONE. +5/+5 is the limit for non-epic weapons. No matter what they are, divine bond, arcane pool, or straight enchantment via craft magic arms and armor.

Exactly. If that limit is for EVERYONE, no matter what they are, then that means that it is reasonable that additional bonuses could in fact be added to the Black Blade so long as they fall under that limit.

If I add a +1 bonus, and I use an Arcane Point, as per the Divine Bond, my Arcane Point addition would only bring my Black Blade up to the +5 total and simply not push it past that point. But to say that the Black Blade cannot have these bonuses means that +5/+5 is for everyone except the Black Blade who gets +5/+0.

From what I have read about the black blade (if you don't over think it) is that the magical blade has its own properties and the magus can use his Arcane Pool to add the listed properties to it just like a normal magus can add properties to his +1 Spell Storing blade.

The problem with this is that it's a little short sighted. As a Bladebound Magus, I am currently in the middle of a dungeon where due to damage resistance I have had to expend 3 Arcane Points to deal any sort of reasonable damage against my opponents, and this is within the first few legs of the dungeon.

We are lv.5, my Magus has an INT score of 18. The Bladebound Magus only gets 1 Arcane Point for every three levels, meaning he does not get a second point until lv.6. This means I have only two Arcane Points for the rest of the dungeon as a whole.

In two more creatures I run risk of becoming entirely incapable of dealing any significant damage with my primary weapon because I have used all of my Arcane Points because I cannot separately enhance my weapon.

The black blade does not get the spell storing ability on his weapon in any shape form or fasion that I can find. Thats the only draw back i can find for the BLack BLade vs the regualr magus in weapons. He doesn't have to buy his tho. So Spell storeing, thundering, and acid damage seem to be beyond the black blade. (+1 Spell Storing Thundering Corrosive Sword) seems to be what a regular magus ends up with plus a +# and his pool gives the rest. the Black Blade gets bonuses the reg magus doesnt get like extra damage (black blade strike) an unbreakable weapon, energy replacement for melee damage(for those with dr), teleport blade, eventually a larger ap with tranfer arcana, spell defence if you get high enough(yeah free sr) and life drink if you live long enough. So. is all that a resonable replacement for Spell storing and a 8d on crits and a d6 of acid damage........ i think they are evenish, depending on dungeon diving or roleplaying misshapes. You decide

Further, what if I instead end up using all my Arcane Points for Spell Recall? You're saying that by being unable to add additional effects, the Bladebound Magus must choose between the effective use several class features, and standard weapon options available to any other character, archetype or otherwise.

I have gone over the Bladebound archetype several times, reveiwing it repeatedly, trying to see where it would specify that the Black Blade cannot be otherwise be given magical effects, and I cannot find anything that would explicitly preclude it.

I agree that the major challenges would lay in other smiths or crafters being able to enhance it, as it is a standard weapon in anyone elses hands, but I do not see this as being a hard no. Especially seeing as suggested Arcana for the class are things that would expend additional Arcane Points of the very limited pool the archetype has.

Holy thread rez, batman! :D

I remember something similar to that from a 3.5? 3.0? class. I believe it was a samurai or something similar who sacrificed wealth to his ancestors to improve his weapon. It was a major class feature as I recall.

Not a bad way to go about it, as long as you're requiring the magus to have the appropriate craft feats, access to the right spells, and rolling the craft check for it.

It does seem a bit powerful if you're allowing the magus to ignore all the requirements as well though, however the cap on bonuss seems to negate the power level a bit.

Yes, the Samurai added in the Oriental Adventures book for 3.0/.5 [ There was kind of a debate about which it was intended for at the time ] had the Daiymo Class feature, which was pretty awesome. It would allow you to improve the base weapon by sacrificing wealth and gained loot at full value to increase the bonus and abilities of the blade.

I should also mention that if you're adding permanent magical enhancements to the black blade, you'll be adjusting its ego as well.

Page 535 of the crb shows you the ego modifier value that depends on the base magic item value. I'd just go with the value of the enhancement on the weapon. I.e. a +2 weapon costs 8000g, so should be a +2 ego modifier.

You could, of course, go with the black blade chart instead, but then you'd be improving the in and wis/cha of the blade as well.

Again you and your dm might not care, which is cool. Just thought I'd mention it :p

In the game that I'm a part of with my Black Blade, I'd be all for this honestly. The blade happens to be the sword of my Magus' grandfather, who has transferred his consciousness into the blade. Considering he was a powerful warrior and Magus in his day as well, it would make plenty of sense for the ego to be more powerful, as well as the Int/Wis modifiers.

I think for the most part though the issue is pretty straight forward. A Magi should be able to improve the black blade outside of requiring Arcana to do so on a temporary basis, but not past the +5 Enhancement / +5 Feature / +5 Temporary limitations that any other weapons would be restricted to.

My opinion would be to allow additional features, but not enhancement bonus, as the weapon will hit a +5 in its own right in time, and updating it early would cause balance issues. Consider the fact that a +1 Black Blade [ lv.3-4 ] could be turned into a +2 for only 3k if the Magi has Craft Magic Arms and Armor. Here's the math on that...

+1 Bonus; 2k
+2 Bonus; 8k
Difference; 6k
Cost of turning a +1 into a +2 is 6k, halved with Crafting Feat.

This would put a +3 Black Blade into the hands of a lv.5 Magi, and that is a bit powerful for the level.

I have talked about this with my GM and we came to the following conclusion. I and only I can improved the weapon, since it`s just a masterwork weapon for everybody else (you could argue that you could enhance that masterwork weapon, but it might just overlap).

I whenever the black blade gets better I have to spend the GP difference between the unenhanced cost to create and the cost including my improvedments.

That's fair as far as I can tell - since I suggested it. I might even get some backup weapons, maybe some +1 spellstoring daggers, some +1 bane weapons. Add greater magic weapon and your arcane pool to taste. Serve hot or cold ^^

That's actually a pretty good way to handle the method, Sebastian, thanks for the suggestion! You have a very good point; as far as anyone else is concerned, using the Black Blade just makes it a Mastercraft Sword [ Reskinned Katana in my case ] so it would be impossible for someone to add an additional enhancement bonus to it.

Seeing as my Magus is also our party craftsman, having him do the work personally would make sense, especially with the bond he is supposed to have with his weapon as it is.

All told, I still think it couldn't hurt for a developer to weigh in on this issue!

Malthule wrote:

LazarX wrote:

Drothmal wrote:

More exacerbated: lvl 16 bladebound magus has a +4 weapon and +4 arcane pool (total +8). A lvl 16 normal magus can have a +6 weapon and +4 arcane pool

Once again, this is assuming that the +10 is still a cap. I really though they had determined it wasn't (one of the big complains when they said they wold put that limitation after the playtest)

The cap and this has been determined for all similar class abilities whether it's the magus arcane bond, paladin divine weapon, or all other similar abilities. the total cap that can be put on a non epic weapon is not +10 but +5/+5 +5 of enhancment and +5 of special abilities.

This is also how I understand it working. This is how we play paladins and I am sure this is how it was intended for the magus. The benefit to a bladebound magus is that his black blade goes up in enhancement automatically as he rises in level. Eventually he won't need to spend arcane points to enhance the + portion of the blade, but he can still add up to +5 in special properties to his +5 blade by spending the appropriate amount of arcane points.

That is correct. Essentially a Bladebound Magus has no need to spend a dime on his weapon., at least not his main blade.

Here is the specific reason I'm wondering if money can be spent, not if it needs to be spent. I understand that I can use my Arcane Pool points for adding enhancements to a weapon as I so need, but those are used for a lot more than just weapon enhancements. To wit:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/magus-arcana/paizo---mag us-arcana/pool-strike-su

By spending an Arcane Pool Point, I can add 2d6 [ my Magus is currently lv.5 ] to my damage. But making sure that my blade is Keen would be exceptionally beneficial also. If I only have 5 Pool Points-- which I will remind you that the Bladebound Magus gets significantly less of to begin with at a maximum of 6+Int Bonus instead of 10+Int Bonus --then I have to decide between the extra damage, or the possibility of getting a critical hit. That's a hell of a gamble.

I'm not looking to exceed the +5 enhanchement / +5 special ability cap, but it would be odd if I could not add special abilities of any sort, especially considering that any weapon held by any other character that does not happen to be a black blade does not have that limit.

In short; I can create a Thundering, Shock, Throwing, Returning, Keen +5 katana, but I can't have a +2 Keen Black Blade if I spend the cash? Seems a little odd. Some clarification on this would be very appreciated.

Mage armor is an armor bonus, it does not apply to touch attacks.

You'll have to excuse me, because I don't have the books so I cannot provide the page number, but this is according to the d20srd.

An armor bonus applies to Armor Class and is granted by armor or by a spell or magical effect that mimics armor. Armor bonuses stack with all other bonuses to Armor Class (even with natural armor bonuses) except other armor bonuses. An armor bonus doesn't apply against touch attacks, except for armor bonuses granted by force effects (such as the mage armor spell) which apply against incorporeal touch attacks, such as that of a shadow.

I bring this up, because I've been trying to figure out if Bracers of Armor count to touch AC as well. Because they use the Mage Armor spell, I'm inclined to think that they do, but I haven't found anything that specifically states yes OR no.