Some unexpected homefront stuff will be eating up considerable amount of time for next few weeks...once I finish her backstory, her cohorts and followers and have joined gameplay will be more active.
I am going to be helping a friend create her very first original PF2E character today, and if needed tomorrow as well, so her character is ready for the game session tomorrow night. Aside from possibly needing some of Sat afternoon to to help her finish character creation (including character backstory) I am hoping to use Saturday afternoon to work on Sumukhi.
ability score generation:5d6 ⇒ (6, 5, 2, 3, 3) = 19 drop the 2 --> 17
ability score generation:5d6 ⇒ (1, 1, 6, 5, 5) = 18 drop a 1 --> 17
ability score generation:5d6 ⇒ (3, 4, 5, 6, 5) = 23 drop the 3 --> 20
ability score generation:5d6 ⇒ (1, 5, 3, 3, 5) = 17 drop the 1 --> 16
ability score generation:5d6 ⇒ (5, 1, 6, 3, 6) = 21 drop the 1 --> 20
ability score generation:5d6 ⇒ (6, 2, 3, 1, 5) = 17 drop the 1 --> 16
You can preview your post, an then add in to the right of each set of 5 dice to remove the lowest die to put your total (though you can just type it up in the same post/later post if that is more convenient for you).
The player's parents were game developments on the game. She is a uber fan of the old Disney animated show, Gargoyles, and her character is a chimeric combination of a Disney-style gargoyle, harpy and medusa.
I have not finished her backstory yet.
Seth86's Skärbründ is another PC that has joined the PBP.
I hope our new players can join us soon but understand if you are still working on it. Please give me a link to your background if it is not in your alias. Also I am looking for hooks!
Noted: I have a few ideas in mind already that can work as hooks.
I will post in here when I have added more to her backstory.
I have been having trouble posting in gameplay, waiting on Paizo.
Thanks, I will not rush to get her backstory done asap, so that I come up with a better overall backstory for her, including what she has been doing in-game since the night the game changed.
Ink the Spot wrote:
It takes time for a good backstory
Yes, it does. I have been busy working on other characters the past week...Sumukhi's backstory will continue...
Reminder Note: I have to reroll Sumukhi's hit points, as I rolled 3.5 d8s for her (less than 7) hit dice using the original Savage Species build for her, and monstrous humanonids have d10 hit dice in PF (which are part of her final build).
Skarbrand and Sumukhi, you both may enter gameplay if you are ready. Any more specifics we can settle in spoilers or here in discussion.
Which guild do you start with? Seeds of Slaughter, Dragon's Glory or another guild?
Where is your guild hall located?
What have you done in the last 4 months?
Why are you in Cinder?
She's not ready to enter gameplay yet. As I have plans Thursday night, I will not have her backstory finished and her profile updated with her updated build and her cohorts and followers until this weekend.
Straight Leadership maxes follower levels to 6th-level by the Leadership Table.
Sumukhi started with another guild:
...in the pseudo mythological creature-filled Greece zone of the game.
Before the game changed could avatars be members of more than one guild (not for Sumukhi, but for her parents' avatars - if yes, her father's (now NPC) avatar is leading them to the other guild he belongs to (or used to belong to) - which is the current main PC guild. If no, could have it that her parents avatars were not members of her guild but simply in-game adventuring with their daughter's avatar.
Some of the guildmembers' avatars were Disney-style gargoyles, with some that looked similar in style to the Wyvern Clan and some that have appearances that blended various mythological creatures to their avatar's appearance.
Last 4 months: The shadow dragon great wyrm, in retaliation for the raid the guildmembers did on it in its lair, attacked the guild's castle base of operations. Eventually groups of surviving guild members set off in different directions, with the goal of some groups to seek out other guilds to help them slay the shadow dragon.
For Sumukhi's followers from leadership I will use two different Follower Leadership scores: one with base of operations and one without: the ones she has from the +2 bump for having base of operations are ones that stayed behind at her original guild house that was attacked by the dragon, and the rest are travelling as part of her travelling group.
fairness and generosity +1 = 17
special power +1 = 18
aloofness -1 = 17
cohort
has pegagus mount - 2 = 15
recruits cohort of different alignment - 1 = 14 (level 10 cohort ==> Lv 5 cohort)
original number of followers
has base of operations +2 = 19 (one 5th level follower, one 4th level follower, two 3rd level followers, four 2nd level followers, forty 1st level followers.
number of followers traveling with her
moves around a lot -1 = 18 (one 4th level follower, one 3rd level follower, three 2nd level followers, thirty-five 1st level followers.
So Sumukhi's followers that remained at the "Greek castle' guildhouse are: one 5th level follower (standard gargoyle with 1 level of fighter), one 3rd level follower (a 3rd level old human sorcerer with the fey bloodline with mending as one of his spells known), one 2nd level follower (pseudodragon with one level of bard with mending as one of its spells known), five 1st level human phalanx soldiers-in-training fighters). There will be followers of other guild members that also stayed back at the castle guild base.
I will decide specifics of the followers that are part of Sumukhi's travelling group this weekend (who I take it will take up quarters at the PC group's guildhouse, when Sumukhi and her cohorts start adventuring with the fellow PCs and their cohorts).
Clarification for your suggestion for Stone Slumber: is the heal and regenerate at-will (provided she spends the required amount of time in stone slumber to benefit from heal? Do you want me to use your suggestion, the suggestion I made for Living Stone and Stone Slumber or an updated suggestion from you after reading my Living Stone and Stone Slumber type-ups?
While it is not explicitly stated as a hard rule, it is presumed that any followers will be 5+ levels lower than the PC.
Quote:
...Because they're usually 5 or more levels behind you, they're rarely effective in combat..
It is not presumed all followers will be 5 or more levels below the PC, as that is the 'usual' maximum level range followers that many PCs with the Leadership feat would gain. It would have been worded as "followers can not be higher level than 5 levels below your character level" (up to maximum level of 6th from the Leadership table) if they wanted a hard follower level cap in direct relationship to the PC's character level.
The 'usually' part also covers PCs who are Level 11 or higher, as regardless of what the Leadership Score table puts the followers' levels at, the table caps their level at 6th. As PCs cannot take Leadership until 7th level, that is range of 4 character levels (7th to 10th) that are outside of the 'usually' follower level range, and a range of 10 character levels (11th to 20th) that ALL followers are '5 or more levels below the PC's level'.
Using only the CRB races, the most a PC's Charisma score is adjusted by race is +2 and have no adjustments from templates, and a potential +1 adjustment to their Charisma score at 4th character level. The 'usually' part is to account for PCs with higher Charisma modifers, having some/all the postive Leadership score adjustments and few/none of the negative Leadership adjustments.
As our PCs starting Charisma scores (before racial/template adjustments) could be as high as 24, that would put the base Leadership score at 7th level as being 14. With CRB race with a +2 Cha adjustment and a template that gives a +2 Cha adjustment, the base Leadership score would increase to 16. Some monster races have +4 or higher adjustments to Cha score and some +1 and +2 CR templates have +4 (or higher?) adjustments to Charisma. Our PCs Leadership scores can be significantly higher than a typical Level 7 core race PC with no templates.
Appendix 4: Monsters as PCs from the Bestiary option, which opens up possibility of having more than a +2 racial adjustment to a PC's Charisma socre. Although Appendix 4 does not specifically state if a inherited template can be included as part of monster PC race chosen, as the templates adjust the CR (such as playing a half-dragon harpy, which would be CR 6 monster), they have that covered too.
Our PCs can have the Leadership scores of what would be a minimum of Level 9 PCs from baseline rules due to the +2 template we have. Because of the updated character creation rule regarding dropping maximumum character level by 1 to increase maximum CR template adjustment, that means potential higher adjustment to Charisma score than a +2 template might give.
The reason they might not have put in a stipulation that a follower cannot have a level as high or higher than the cohort's is because followers do not gain experience and their levels are locked in place, wheras the cohort gains experience and can level up.
Not part of the base Leadership rules, but applying the same cohort level cap in relation to the PC's level to followers' max levels would fall under the 'common sense' rule, so that followers who (by the Leadership table) have levels that are the same level or one level below the PC's level, are two levels below the PC's level until the PC's level increases, and those followers would become the level that the table lists them as.
Some LV 7 CRB race PCs with no template can can have a 4th-level follower:
A level 7 core race PC with no templates and started with a 18 Charisma before racial adjustments are applied, could have a Charisma score of 20 at 1st level (if a gnome, half-elf, half-orc, halfling or human).
Applying the 4th character level ability score adjustment to Charisma, such Lv 7 PCs would have Charisma scores of 21, making their base Leadership scores 12. If they have all the positive Leadership adjustments and none of the negative ones, their (follower) Leadership score would be 18, which would make the highest-level follower they have be a 4th-level follower, which is 3 levels below their own character level. So even without using Appendix 4: Monsters as PCs from the Bestiary, we have examples of how some PCs might have followers with levels that are not in the 'usually 5 or more levels below the PC's level' level bracket.
example of PC (using only CRB and Bestiary) with the Leadership Feat who has followers who are not within the 'usually 5 or more levels behind you' bracket:
Appendix 4: Monster as PCs
Character Level of party: Lv 9 (this is to account for the free +2 CR template adjustment our level 7 PCs have).
Using a harpy bard and a half-dragon harpy bard as examples.
Harpy Bard: CR 4 monster, with 5 bard class levels. Technically by Appendix 4, the harpy would have gained additional class levels when the non-monster PCs were halfway between character level 6 and 7, so the harpy has 6 class levels. When the non-monster PCs are halfway between character level 9 and 10, the harpy would gain another class level, and that would be the last 'additional class level' the harpy PC would gain.
So in the party of Lv 9 PCs, the harpy bard PC has 6 levels in bard.
If the harpy started with 18 Charisma score before racial adjustments, the CR 4 harpy (that has a +6 Cha racial adjustment) would have Charisma score of 24. With 6 levels in bard, it hsa one free ability score bump, and could put the +1 bump into Charisma, making its Charisma 25.
Making the harpy bard's base Leadership score (without including the extra bard class level they gained when the non-monster PCs were halfway between 6th and 7th level, as that was gained to make it so it is still equivalent to the non-monster PCs' character level) would be 16.
If had all the postive Leadership modifiers and none of the negative Leadership modifiers it would make its (followers) Leadership score 22, which would give the harpy bard a 6th-level follower, which is not in the 'usually 5 or more levels below the PC's level' level bracket.
If the party were 7th level PCs instead of 9th level PCs, the harpy bard's (followers) Leadership score would be 20 (as it gained the +1 bump to Cha for being a 4th bard, due to the extra class level between when the non-monster PCs gained 6th and 7th level), which would give it a 5th-level follower (which is the same level as the harpy bard's cohort).
Were the harpy a half-dragon (half-dragon template giving up to +4 Charsima adjustment, for total +10 racial adjustment to Charisma) harpy with bard class levels, in a party of 7th level PCs, it would have 1 class level of bard, have a base Leadership score of 16; with all the postive and none of the negative Leadership modifiers, its (followers) Leadership score would be 16. With all the postive and none of the negative Leadership modifiers, the half-harpy bard would have (followers) Leadership score of 22, giving it a one 6th-level follower.
"Desseer Arnalc wrote:
Note: The bonuses for followers are not the same for cohorts. You essentially have two different scores.
I am aware of that fact, which can be seen by the math I provided. The Leadership for both cohorts and followers can be the same, if the total Leadership adjustments for (cohort) Leadership and (follower) Leadership result in the same total Leadership score adjustment.
Question 6) By the baseline Leadership rules, there is no maximum level (aside 6th from the table) regarding in comparison to the Leader's level. As we can have significantly higher than typical Charisma scores for 7th level PCs, do we still use the baseline rules if it would give us 5th and/or 6th level followers?
Huh? No one should have a score over 17, thus you would not be gaining anywhere near that level. Go ahead and let me see the run down if higher than 15.
Thank you. Had I not starting to feel under the weather yesterday, I would have used the common sense rule that no followers of a leader should have a level higher than the leader's cohort, though technically by the baseline Leadership rules no such level cap is given for the followers (aside from the Leadership score and cohort level/# of followers of each level.
I was in 'by the rules' mode when I was typing yesterday to ask for clarifications you are using for the campaign.
It is potentially possibly by baseline Leadership rules for a potential Lv 7 character using the character creation rules for the campaign to have a leadership score that (by the Leadership table) could give them a 6th level follower.
math breakdown:
base leadership 7 + Cha mod
generic postive leadership modifiers: +2, +1, +1 ==> leadership 11 + Cha mod
no positive cohort leadership modifiers
positive follower modifier: +2 ==> leadership 13 + Cha mod
A PC could have potential 24 Cha before adjusting for racial and template modifiers. Cha 24 ==> leadership 20 + racial and template modifiers to Cha
A Leadership score of 19 grants (by Leadership table) a 5th level cohort. So potential for a PC that rolled 22 or 23 for their Charisma score with no racial or template adjustments to Charisma could have potential Leadership level of 19 to determine number of followers and their levels.
A PC that has a +2 racial adjustment to Charisma and a +2 template adjustment to Charisma would only need to have a rolled 18 (out of a potential 24 max) to have a leadership score of 19 regarding folllowers (if they had all the postive and none of the negative modifiers that apply to (followers) Leadership score.
A PC that has a combined +8 to Cha from racial adjustments and template adjustments that has a rolled 18 Cha could have a potential (followers) Leadership score of 21 (which by the Leadership table) would gain one 6th-level follower.
Sumukhi's Leadership score:
base Leadership score 7 +9 (Cha) = 16
generic adjustments:
great renown (+2) Sumukhi does not have this.
fairness or generosity (+1) Sumukhi has this. Leadership 17
special power (+1) Sumukhi has this. Leadership 18
failure (-1) Sumukhi does not have this.
aloofness (-1) Sumukhi has this. Leadership 17
cruelty (-2) Sumukhi does not have this.
modified Leadership score (before applying modifiers for cohort or followers): 17
Cohort modifiers:
has special mount (-2) Sumukhi has this from her pegasus mount (even though it is baseline pegasus, I treated it as a special mount for this modifier). (cohort) Leadership 15
recruits cohort of different alignment (-1) Sumukhi (CG) has this for the her father's (turned into NPC) avatar (NG) (cohort) Leadership 14
her other cohort could be CG like her, so could be (cohort) Leadership 15 (instead of 14)
caused death of cohort (cumulative -2) Sumukhi does not have this
Follower modifiers
Has stronghold, base of operations, guildhouse, etc. (+2) Sumukhi has this (followers) Leadership 19
Moves around a lot (-1) Sumukhi has this. (followers) Leadership 18
Caused death of followers (-1) Sumukhi does not have this.
If Sumukhi's (followers) Leadership score was 1 point higher, she would (by using Leadership table) would have one 5th-level follower. Had her rolled stat for Charisma been 24 instead of 20, that would have increased her Leadership score up by another two points, which (by the Leadership table) would give her one 6th-level follower.
(Tentative for now) Each of the non-1st level followers leads a group of seven 1st-level followers.
I am still feeling a bit under the weather. I have some RL stuff I have to attend to tomorrow, but should have some time tomorrow night to work on Sumukhi and her cohorts & followers, as long as I am not feeling worse tomorrow.
Feeling a bit under the weather today, so might have missed something in the above proposed Living Stone and Stone Slumber for full-blooded Disney-style gargoyles and half-blooded Disney-style gargoyles.
If I am not still feeling under the weather tomorrow, I will try to complete her background story, finish up her final level choices (such as the kineticist wild talent slots I have not decided on yet), and her cohorts and followers.
Do the following have your approval for the final versions for Living Stone (nighttime) and Stone Slumber (daytime) and how they are modified for Sumukhi (due to her chimeric nature, being an earth kineticist and being her 'superpower')?
Living Stone:
Sumukhi's chimeric nature, earth kineticist abilities and 'superpower' alter how Living Stone works for her. See the spoiler for Sumukhi's Living Stone.
Living Stone (Su): During the night, Disney-style gargoyles have the following benefits (which are Disney-style gargoyle racial traits)
Darkvision 60 feet
Scent 30 feet
While in contact with stone or earthen surfaces, gain Tremorsense 60 feet
Hardness 8
DR 10/magic
Base Speed 40 feet
Climb Speed 20 feet
Glide Speed of 60 feet (average maneuverability)
Resist 10 Acid, Resist 20 cold, Resist 15 electricity, Resist 20 fire, Resist 15 sonic
The Freeze universal monster ability
The same natural attacks as standard gargoyles: 2 claws (1d6), bite (1d4), gore (1d4)
Can enter a bloodrage, that functions as a 1st-level bloodrager's. Unlike a bloodrager, there is no limit to how many times they can bloodrage during the night, but each time they bloodrage, they can only maintain their bloodrage for a number of rounds equal to 3 plus their Constitution modifier. While bloodraging, male gargoyles' eyes glow white, and female gargoyles' eyes glow red. While their eyes are glowing their pupils and irises cannot be seen.
At sunrise, Disney-style gargoyles automatically assume their Deep Slumber form.
Sumukhi's Living Stone:
Sumukhi's chimeric nature modifies how Living Stone works for her, as follows:
Sumukhi's Living Stone (Su): As a chimeric Disney-style gargoyle, Sumukhi Living Stone ability works differently and provides the following benefits:
Included are how gestalted race Disney-style 'half-gargoyles' would gain from her gargoyle side of the racial gestalt, with bracketed notes for abilities Sumukhi gained better versions from her monster class levels (including harpy ones from her effective +2 template) and kineticist abilities. As I am thinking her guild included fellow Disney's Gargoyle fans, some of her followers will be Disney-style gargoyles - hence why there are two versions of both Living Stone and Stone Slumber I have come up with - default versions and Sumukhi's versions.
Whenever a Disney-style 'half-gargoyle' is not in their Stone Slumber form, they are in their Living Stone form.
Darkvision 30 feet (Sumukhi gains better darkvision via her medusa 'baseline race')
Scent 15 feet
While in contact with stone or earth surfaces, have Tremorsense 30 feet
Climb 10 feet (Sumukhi's earth kineticist Earth Climb ability gives her a climb speed of half her base speed (30 medusa + 10 bloodrager's Fast movement), for climb speed of 20 feet)
Glide 30 feet (average) (Sumukhi aslo has this from her two harpy monster levels; in time her air kineticist abilities will make it a fly speed and improve her maneuverability)
Hardness 8
DR 5/magic
Resist 5 acid, Resist 15 cold, Resist 10 Electricity, Resist 15 fire, Resist 10 sonic.
She gains the benefit of the Freeze universal monster ability.
Gains the same natural attacks as baseline gargoyles, which have their damage dice reduced by 1 step. 2 claws (1d4), bite (1d3), gore (1d3)
Bloodrage: As full-blooded Disney-style gargoyle, except they can only maintain their bloodrage for a maximum of rounds equal to their Constitution modifier.
Stone Slumber:
Stone Slumber (Su): Disney-style gargoyles automatically assume their Stone Slumber form at sunrise.
The following are for the run-of-the-mill Disney-Style Stone Slumber effects. See the spoiler for Sumukhi's Stone Slumber for the additional benefits she gains from being a chimeric being and an earth kineticist.
While in Stone Slumber from Disney-style gargoyles gain the following benefits:
Motionless: Their physical forms become inanimate statues, taking on the position they were in at sunrise.
Unaware: Though they dream during stone slumber, they are completely unaware of what is occurring to their petrified forms while they are in their stone slumber. Their stone slumber automatically ends at sunset.
Hardness 8
DR 20/magic and bludgeoning
Immune to cold and fire
Resist 15 acid, Resist 20 electricity, Resist 20 sonic
Immune to blindness, critical hits, ability score damage, deafness, disease, drowning, poison, stunning, and all spells or attacks that affect their physiology or respiration, because they have no physiology during stone slumber, aside their regenerative healing processes that are healing them as they slumber.
Immune to mind-affecting effects,transmutation effects and polymorph effects
When they awake from their Stone Slumber, they are completely healed to maximum hit points, and also benefiting from the heal and restoration spells, except only ability damage and ability drain to their physical ability scores are completely healed. They heal one point of ability damage to each of their mental ability scores. Stone Slumber does not heal ability drain to their mental ability scores. There is a chance that any critical hit they sustained while in Living Stone form, is not healed during their Stone Slumber (such as the critical hit Hudson took to his eye before he went by the name Hudson). Critical hits that did not have any additional effects besides increased damage are automatically healed during Stone Slumber. Hudson would need someone to cast regenerate on him while he is in his Living Stone form to regenerate his eye.
Sumukhi's Stone Slumber:
Unlike typical Disney-style gargoyles, sunrise and sunset do not automatically start/end Living Stone or Stone Slumber for Sumukhi (or Disney-style 'half-gargoyles').
Sumukhi (and other Disney-style 'half-gargoyles') benefits from her Living Stone abilities whenever she is not in her Stone Slumber form.
Sumukhi's Stone Slumber (Su): Sumukhi can only activate her Stone Slumber ability during the day, and can only do so once in a given day.
Unlike other Disney-style gargoyles, Sumukhi is aware of her surroundings while in her stone slumber form, which functions similar to the statue spell, with the additional benefits: She can choose to assume her Deep Slumber form during any point of the day, beginning as early as sunrise to anytime before sunset. She cannot assume her Stone Slumber form at night. While in Stone Slumber form, she gains the benefits of the statue spell and the following benefits.
When Sumukhi (and other Disney-style 'half-gargoyles) sleep during the day, they automatically assume their Stone Slumber form, which makes them just as alert of their surroundings as if they were sleeping in without Stone Slumber being in effect (due to the benefits of the [i[statue[/i] effects of their Stone Slumber forms. Taking any damage automatically wakes them up from their Stone Slumber.
All Disney-style 'half-gargoyles' (and Sumukhi) gain the following racial traits.
Immune to blindness, critical hits, ability score damage, deafness, disease, drowning, poison, stunning, and all spells or attacks that affects her physiology or respiration, because she has no physiology during stone slumber, aside her regenerative healing processes that are healing she remains in Stone Slumber.
By reamaining in their Stone Slumber form from sunrise to sunset, a Disney-style 'half-gargoyle' gains the same benefits as a full-blooded Disney-style gargoyle. By remaining in their Stone Slumber form for only 8 consecutive hours, they are fully healed, and only heal half the ability damage done to each of their ability scores (mininum 1 point healed for each ability score) and only heal half the ability drain to each of their physical ability scores (minimum 1 point healed for each of the three physical ability scores).
Due to Sumukhi's 'superpower' and earth kineticist abilities, her Stone Slumber also provides the following benefits:
By remaining in Stone Slumber form for at least an 1 hour, Sumukhi gains the typical benefits that full-blooded Disney-style gargoyles gain from Stone Slumber.
Regenerative Stone (Su) By remaining in Stone Slumber form for at least 3 rounds, Sumukhi gains the benefits of the regenerate spell, which requires her to stay in her Stone Slumber form for 2d10 for body lost body parts to regrow.
Stone Resurrection (Su): When she dies, regardless of time of day/night, Sumukhi's remains petrify (gaining the defensive abilities of her Stone Slumber). Her remains stay in Stone Slumber form, regardless of time of day for the next 48 hours, at which time she resurrects, still in her Stone Slumber form, which regenerates any lost body parts. If Sumukhi's remains are ever in contact with earth or stone during the 48 hours since she died, that has enough volume to contain her remains, they meld into the stone or earth for the remainder of the 48 hours. Like the resurrection spell, only a tiny piece of Sumukhi's remains is needed for her to be resurrected this way. If her petrified remains are shattered (or the effect that killed her did so, such as by the disintegrate spell, the pieces meld into any earth or stone surfaces they land on. At the end of the 48 hours, the pieces of petrified Sumukhi animate and move towards the largest petrified portion of Sumukhi, melding back into her form as part of the regenerative resurrection process.
The reason I asked the question regarding Leadership and how they related to cohorts is because GM Wolf's 'Yup!!!' could have been in response to some or all of Desseer's post he replied to with 'Yup!!!'.
Thank you finding a relevant post regarding how GM Wolf is using Leadership, and it removed the confusing thing Dessier's post mentioned about highest-level cohorts being gestalt and receiving a +2 template....since the post link you provided states the cohort backstory reward allows us to have a 2nd cohort (baseline rules prevent having more than one cohort, so thanks again for finding the relevant post. :)
So baseline leadership (or vile leadership) as standard Leadership (or Vile Leadership) rules.
The extra cohort we are able to acquire from the background rewards have the normal maximum cohort level that Leadership (or Vile Leadership) provids (so 5th level cohorts since our characters are 7th level (from maximum BAB, Base saves crunch numbers) AND the cohort we gained from the background bonus ALSO gets to be gestalted with a +2 CR template.
Question 1) Do the updated PC creation clarifications about dropping max character level down to increase maximum CR of template selected) also apply to our cohorts?
Question 2) Aside waiting for clarification of the question above, is the rest of the above correct?
Question 3) Do we use baseline Leadership feat rules for determining a cohorts' and followers' gear, which uses the NPC wealth by level table instead of the PC wealth by level table. That would make a (heroic) 5th level cohort have 3,450 gold worth of gear. 1st level followers would each have 390 gp worth of gear, 2nd level followers would each have 780 gold worth of gear, 3rd level followers would have 1,650 gp worth of gear, 4th level followers would have 2,400 gp worth of gear, 5th level followers would have 3,450 gold worth of gear, 6th level followers would have 4,650 gp worth of gear.
Question 4) Do our cohorts who have gestalted levels and the +2 CR template use the NPC gear wealth or the PC gear wealth?
Question 5) Do our other cohorts (who are baseline rules cohorts) use NPC wealth by level or PC wealth by level?
Question 6) By the baseline Leadership rules, there is no maximum level (aside 6th from the table) regarding in comparison to the Leader's level. As we can have significantly higher than typical Charisma scores for 7th level PCs, do we still use the baseline rules if it would give us 5th and/or 6th level followers?
Question 7) Which ability score method from NPC creation are we using for our cohorts? (page 450-451 CRB)
The heroic ability array typical heroic NPCs use: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 (which is using 15 point-buy method)
Question 8) Can we use the 15 point-buy method for our cohorts and followers?
Question 9) Do our gestalted cohorts use the next tier of point-buy method (20 points)?
Question 10) Do our non-gestalted cohorts use the next tier of point-buy (20 points)?
Question 11) Do our followers use the next tier if point-buy (20 points)?
Question 12) Or do we use dice generation method for our cohorts? If yes, which method?
Questsion 13) Or do we use dice generation method for our followers? If yes, which method?
I think the above questions cover all potentially needed clarifications regarding how to create how gestalted cohort, non-gestalted cohort and our non-gestalted followers.
Yeah just follow the NPC rules of leadership. Yeah do the 5 HD succubus. Yes baseline leadership. Templates don't apply to leadership only level and your leadership score.
Vile leadership? Yes you could take Vile leadership instead of leadership.
GM Wolf wrote:
Desseer Arnalc wrote:
Based on how the GM has been running it, we are mechanically equal CR to our level, so 7. This includes for our cohorts. Though, that said, the GM has been allowing the highest cohorts to be gestalt as well as have a +2 template.
Yup!!!
@GM Wolf: Could you please clarify the following.
Our base Leadership score is equal to 7 plus our Charisma modifier, which is baseline leadership. No confusion there.
Baseline leadership would cap our cohort's level to 5th level.
Are our cohorts' level cap is 5th, not 7th, correct?
I'm planning on then taking a Succubus (cr7) with 1 class level as cohort. Wondering. Pain taster may work
If allowed.
I'll be writing this weekend, or try to, to get his story sorted
Unless GM Wolf tells us otherwise, you will not be able to start with a cohort that is higher than level 5, the Leadership specifically states that regardless of your Leadership score, you can only recruit a cohort who is two more levels than yourself. So not a full-grown (full abilities) succubus but, with GM okay, a 5 HD succubus. My google search did not reveal the PF1E monster class level builds. Succubus is done up in Savage species, which I could do a PF1E monster class breakdown to see if GM Wolf approves for you to use for a succubus cohort).
Skärbründ's base Leadership score is 11 (character level 7 + 4 Charisma modifier)
general Leadership score modifiers (Leader's Reputation modifiers)
great renown (+2) (educated guess this does not apply...but might via in-game stuff a PC does) (educated guess he has one, as we can gain one from backstory rewards)
fairness and genoristy (+1) (educated guess that being NE Skärbründ does not gain this modifier)
special power (+1) (Skärbründ gets this (educated guess all of our PCs have this one).
failure (-1) (up to you if Skärbründ would have this one (Skärbründ's backstory probably determines this)
aloofness (-1) (I tend to use this for chaotic chaotics, using that approach Skärbründ would not have this adjustment)
working with he has not failed, Skärbründ's adjusted Leadership score is 12
Things that affect Leadership score for cohorts
leader has a (eidolon), familiar, special mount or animal companion (-2)
recruits cohort of different alignment (-1) (He would have this adjustment since he is NE and the succubus is CE (using default succubus/demon alignment of CE)
caused death of cohort (cumulative -2 per cohort killed) (working with this has not occurred and succubus is his first cohort)
The above modifiers would make Skärbründ's effective leadership score for determining a cohort's level is 9 (which makes cohort's level 6th, which is higher than Skärbründ's level minus 2, so his cohort's level should be 5th)
Modifiers that affects Leadership score regarding followers
has a stronghold, base of operations, guildhouse , etc. (+2) (our guilds' base of operations would grant this)
moves around a lot (-1) (I tend to use this one as a defaut for adventurers who are exploring as they are adventuring, returning to their base of operations but no where near a daily basis)
caused the death of other followers. (-1) (working with Skärbründ did not cause deaths of followers...yet anyway)
modified Leadership score for Skärbründ for followers would be 13; which would mean for followers he would have:
one 2nd level follower
ten 1st level followers
Waiting to learn if GM Wolf is handling Leadership differently from the baseline Leadership feat from the CRB, but the above should help out in creating your level 5 cohort and eleven followers.
Desseer already had it so he can double up if he wants or add another feat.
Wish can produce a magical item worth 25k any higher and curses come in play.
** spoiler omitted **
Oooh, this apply to the newbies too?
Based on the timing of his earlier post regarding Leadership (shortly after he read a PM of mine, my educated guess is GM Wolf was addressing me, and since I am fellow newbie like you, my second educated guess is that it applies to you as well.
In my PM, I asked if Leadership could be used to mimick her in-game dynamic with her father's avatar (who had logged out of the game before midnight (and the game changed) and thus his avatar became an NPC (and my cohort), as well as the various fellow players of the the guild she was in (before midnight) with her parents (who had decided to collectively get together in-game one last time before the game shut down to take on their biggest raid attempt - a legendary shadow great wyrm - which went quite badly for the guild - many deaths, many negative levels, with many of the guild members rage-quitting and many trying their best to heal/resurrect themselves and their fellow guild members to full health and status before the midnight deadline.
I, as a player, do not know if my character's mother was logged in with her avatar when midnight struck...
I am thinking that could be an in-game explaination of why the longer-run PCS have have met our newer PCs yet. The guilds our new PCs are from could be a long way from where their guild(s) have their base(s).
For the wish-granted magic item I am going with Ring of Evasion (without a curse coming into play).
@everyone. I am not familiar enough with the show. I was working that part of the in-game world had real-world counterparts (though from medeival or further back). Sumukhi's guild is based in the in-game equivalent of ancient Greece. Her guild was one of the guilds her parents' (who were two of the original coders of the game before the game launched twelve years ago) avatars belong to.
I was working with a staff being able to be charged each day by a caster expending a spell level. I forgot to take into consideration that would be 9 levels back max normally for using a 9th level spell to add daily charges back into the staff. The staff was the best way I could think of to give an magic item price equivalent if you wanted one.
Your suggestion looks good for how the three spells work.
I included restoration to handle permenatly ability drain, since heal only cures ability damage and not drain.
Other spells that would fit with the thematics of Stone Slumber:
Protection/Resistance from Energy.
Elements of the Iron Body spell
"You gain damage reduction 15/adamantine. You are immune to blindness, critical hits, ability score damage, deafness, disease, drowning, electricity, poison, stunning, and all spells or attacks that affect your physiology or respiration, because you have no physiology or respiration while this spell is in effect. You take only half damage from acid and fire."
Substituting in the standard gargoyle's damage reduction of 10/magic for the 15/adamantine (I would not say no to having both. :)
Monstrous Physique spells, while most of the features would not apply while in statue form, things like the gargoyle's freeze ability would (and is granted by Monstrous Physique II and higher versions). Monstrous Physique does not include damage reduction.
Monstrous Physique IV can grant the following features (bolded ones are ones that thematically work for the power, and bolded italalicized ones might). Ones that would not make sense at all while in statue form are striked-through.
burrow 60 feet, climb 90 feet, fly 120 feet (good maneuverability), swim 120 feet,blindsense 60 feet, darkvision 90 feet, low-light vision, scent, tremorsense 60 feet(could be a power that helps prevent Disney style Gargoyle clans from being all killed?), blood frenzy, breath weapon, cold vigor, constrict, ferocity, freeze, grab, horrific appearance, jet, leap attack, mimicry, natural cunning, overwhelming, poison, pounce, rake, rend, roar, sound mimicry, speak with sharks, spikes, trample, trip, and web. If the creature has immunity or resistance to any energy types, you gain resistance 20 to those energy types. If the creature has vulnerability to an energy type, you gain that vulnerability. If the creature has immunity to poison, you gain a +8 bonus on saves against poison.
For your approval/modification:
So with taking the above into consideraton, while in statue form, in addtion to the benefits of the statue spell, she would have the following benefits:
DR 20/(magic + adamantine) or (magic + bludgeoning)
Immunity to cold, fire
Resist 20 acid, electricity, sonic
immune to blindness, critical hits, ability score damage, deafness, disease, drowning, electricity, poison, stunning, and all spells or attacks that affect your physiology or respiration
gargoyle's Freeze ability
Tremorsense 60 feet
Heal (has to remain in statue form for 1 hour to take effect)
Regenerate (the healing is immediate and the regeneration process begins immediately, with the regeneration taking 1 round for minor losses, otherwise taking 2d10 rounds to completely regenerate all lost body parts)
Resurrection (48 hours; takes up to 24 hours for her petrified remains to reform her statue form, then requires a full sunrise to sunset for her life force to re-awaken, as the sun goes down and she bursts out of her Stone Slumber Disney Gargoyle style!)
Greater Restoration (has to remain in statue form for 8 hours to take effect) (or sunrise to sunset) This would cover healing all negative levels (temporary and permanent), healing all points permenantly drained from all ability scores, as well as healing all forms of insanity, confusion and similar mental effects.
I decided to go with the Overwhelming Soul kineticist archetype.
Some changes to her background bonuses.
Class feature of 5th level or lower: going with Earth Climb, to mimic Disney's Gargoyles' climbing ability.
Question regarding backstory-earned free wish. A wish spell can duplicate spells that have expensive matarial components up to 10,000 gold without needing to provide the expensive material component. Using the 10,000 gold cap, coud we gain a magic item worth 10,000 gold or less for the wish?
A potential contender would be a ring of improved jumping (10,000 gp) to increase the height she can attain (and thus glide longer).
When she qualifies for it, she will be taking the Wings of Air (Pathbuilder puts it as a valid option earlier than it should be for my build). She needs to be level 10 to select it.
For the backstory-earned superpower would the following be a valid option:
Working in elements of both the stone slumber from the show and her ability as an earth kineticist, to impove how powerful the healing is for her personal stone slumber ability.
Sumukhi's healing stone form is much more powerful than a typical Disney gargoyle...hers can occur at any time of day or night, is not triggered by sunrise nor sunset (though she does like to use sunrise to assume her Stone Slumber form)...the power she has over earth and stone has modified her stone form, which, in addtion to her being able to actively use it, it is also automatically triggered in response to her being killed...
Stone Slumber
Can use statue at-will, regardless of time of day/night. Each round she is in statue form she gains the benefits of the following spells: heal, regenerate, restoration and resurrection with restoration being able to remove permanent negative levels.
If the above superpower is too powerful...
Using the magic item creation rules from the CRB as a way to gauge how powerful her Stone Slumber is, a (CL 13th) staff with statue (1 charge), heal (1 charge), restoration (1 charge, and a weekly use of removing 1 permanent negative level), regenerate (2 charges) and resurrection (9 charges) would cost slightly under 125,000 gold.
Her Deep Slumber form always has '10 charges' when assumed, and typically uses the 10 charges for all the spell equivalents (using six uses of restoration, so she completely heals all points permanently drained from all six ability scores) except for resurrection (which when triggers works thematically as her remains petrify to start the resurrective process...). When her resurrection triggers, her form (or the separate pieces of her form) change into stone as the magic of her regenerative Stone Slumber bring her back from the brink (and past the brink) of death.
staff cost breakdown:
Most expensive highest-level spell
Resurrection: lv 7 spell x CL 13 x 400 gold = 36,400 gold
Resurrecton materials cost 50 x 10,000 gold = 500,000 gold
Total cost for Resurrection (1 charge) = 536,400 gold
I am still retooling her build, to better capture a Disney-style gargoyle, that like some of the other clans, such as the London Clan, look similar to other mythological creatures.
@GM: I sent you a PM with the (bulk) of her reworked build for your approval.
So others know basics of build, if approved:
For ones familiar with Disney's Gargoyles, you will see it inspired build.
+2 CR template used to acquire the first two levels of (in line with PF1E) harpy monster class levels (which gives her feathered gliding wings and 2 talons natural attacks).
first side of 7th level gestalt: the initial racial traits of the medusa plus the first 6 levels of medusa monster class levels (petrfying gaze as a full-round action which affects a single target, which is the maximum power her petrifying gaze gains, as she will not be taking the last two monster levels of medusa) and 1 level of (primalist) bloodrager (with medusa bloodline) and possibly the untouchable archetype as well.
second side of 7th level gestalt: all kineticist class levels. Primary element is earth (which gives her Flesh of Stone defense) and air element as her 7th level expanded element (which will be used to help her gain higher altitude for gliding). Her build plan is at least 16 levels of kineticist so her Flesh of Stone has a passive DR/adamantine equal to hardness of stone (8).
I am still in the process of choosing her kineticist wild talents.
(10,000 gold) Glove of Storing
(Where she stores her morningstar.)
(4,250 gold) +1 light fortification living steel bracers of armor
(She plans to take the Craft Wondrous Item feat so she can increase the power of the fortification armor special ability of her bracers.)
(250 gold) Traveler's Any-Tool
(This magic item allows her to more easily carry masterwork Craft (weaponsmithing) tools, which she keeps in hammer shape as the default shape, which is secured to her belt.)
(309 gold) masterwork living steel throwing light steel shield
(Counts as an exotic weapon when thrown.)
(She plans to make her shield a magic weapon that has the returning weapon special ability.)
(4,654 gold) +1 merciful living steel morning star with versatile design (thrown weapons) weapon modification (9,308 gold, minus 4,654 gold for personally crafted savings)
(While the versatile design weapon modification does not give the morning star a thrown range, it will come in effect when she chooses combat feats and selects the thrown weapons weapons group.)
(She plans to add the throwing and returning weapon special abilities to her morning star.)
(Personally-crafted budget: 5,000 gold - 4,654 gold = 346 gold left)
(151 gold) masterwork cold iron chakram (302 gold, minus 151 gold for personally crafted savings)
(She plans to add the returning weapon special ability to her cold iron chakram.)
(Personally-crafted budget: 346 gold - 151 gold = 195 gold left)
(196 gold) masterwork silver chakram (391 gold, minus 195 gold for personally crafted savings)
(She plans to add the returning weapon special ability to her silver chakram.)
(Personally-crafted budget: 195 gold - 195 gold = 0 gold left)
Pathfinder monster PCs have more character class levels than 3.5/Savage Species monsters since Pathfinder does not add level adjustments to the CRs of monster PCs.
Using Pathfinder monsters instead of 3.5 Savage Species monster class levels, here is her build.
Her current Hero Forge mini, which is not finished yet.
Build
Harpy side of gestalt: all 7 of harpy's 7 HD
Gargoyle side of gestalt: all 5 HD of gargoyle's 5 HD, 2 levels of bloodrager with the medusa bloodline
+2 CR template: half-medusa
Gestalted gargoyle/harpy (before adjusting for half-medusa template):
Medium monstrous humanoid
Darkvision 60 feet
Speed 40 feet, Fly 80 feet (average)
DR 10/magic
Captivating Song (300 foot range, Will DC = 10 plus half harpy's racial hit dice (+3) plus harpy's Cha modifier
+2 racial modifier to Stealth (+6 in stony environs)
Freeze (ex) Can take 20 on Stealth checks to hide in plain sight as a stone statue.
+4 natural armor (the gargoyle's +4 is better than the harpy's +2)
Racial Ability Score Adjustments:
+4 Str (gargoyle's)
+4 Dex (both have +4)
+6 Con (gargoyle's)
-4 Int (both have -4)
+2 Wis (harpy's)
+2 Cha (combined gargoyle's -4 and harpy's +6)
Languages: Common (both), Terran (gargoyle)
half-medusa template:
CREATING A HALF-MEDUSA
“Half-medusa” is a template that can be added to any humanoid or monstrous humanoid (hereafter referred to as the base creature). It uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.
Challenge Rating: As base creature +2.
Size and Type: If the base creature is humanoid, its type changes to monstrous humanoid. Change racial hit dice to d10s. If the half-medusa has any class levels, it gains hit points from those normally.
Armor Class: A half-medusa’s natural armor bonus improves by 1.
Melee: The half-medusa retains all the attacks of the base creature and also gains a secondary bite attack that deals 1d4 damage and delivers the poison detailed below.
Special Attacks: A half-medusa gains the following.
Half-Medusa Poison (Ex): Type poison (injury); Save Fortitude DC (10+1/2 hit dice+Con mod); Frequency 1/ round for 6 rounds; Effect 1d2 temporary Strength damage; Cure 1 save.
Stunning Gaze (Su): Stun for 1d4 rounds, 30 foot range. Fortitude save DC (10+1/2 hit dice+Cha mod).
Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: Dexterity +2, Charisma +2.
Feats: A half-medusa gains Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat.
With half-medusa applied to gestalt gargoyle/harpy:
Medium monstrous humanoidDarkvision 60 feet
Speed 40 feet, Fly 80 feet (average)
DR 10/magic
Captivating Song (300 foot range, Will DC = 10 plus half harpy's racial hit dice (+3) plus harpy's Cha modifier
Stunning Gaze (Su): Stun for 1d4 rounds, 30 foot range. Fortitude save DC (10+1/2 hit dice+Cha mod)
+2 racial modifier to Stealth (+6 in stony environs)
Freeze (ex) Can take 20 on Stealth checks to hide in plain sight as a stone statue.
Bonus Feat: Weapon FinesseLanguages: Common (both), Terran (gargoyle)
Question: Since weapon finesse is no longer a feat with no tax feats, can the bonus feat, weapon finesse, from the half-medusa template be used to select a single one-handed weapon (or the quarterstaff) that becomes a finesse weapon for the user? This is from the improved weapon finesse class feature of the dai'dore class for the 3.5 OGL Wheel of Time rpg (gaining weapon finesse as a bonus feat and being able to select one of those weapons). If yes, her weapon will be a morning star instead of a light mace.
Ability scores:
Ability scores rolled (see post farther up) were: 20, 20, 19, 19, 18, 15.
9 paragraphs (extra +2 to an ability score): +2 Cha
12 paragraphs (gain a mount CR 3 or below): pegasus
15 paragraphs (gain a crafting feat): Craft Magic Arms and Armor
18 paragraphs (gain a wish): "I wish for my gaze to have the power to petrify living creatures only when I want it to do so, so I never accidentally petrify anyone, including myself."
21 paragraphs (gain a magical ring no more than 8,000 gp): Ring of Forcefangs
24 paragraphs (gain a familiar or animal companion): thrush familiar (can speak Scottish Gaelic)
27 paragraphs (gain a super power): "Power of Gargoyles": At-will uses of stone to flesh and statue and while a creature (including herself) is in statue form, they gain the benefits of the regenerate spell every round.
This gives her the power of Disney's gargoyles with the following differences: She can choose whether or not to turn to statue form during the day (or parts of the day) as well as being able to do so at nighttime (or parts of the night), the regeneration of the statue form can regenerate lost body parts; she can grant the benefit to other creatures; in addtion to benefitting from the power herself, she can stone to flesh petrified creatures from a distance via a de-petrifying gaze (with greater range than her other gaze abilities.
30 paragraphs (gain a class feature of level 5 or lower from another class): Kineticist's Wild Talent (Flesh of Stone)
Gear (incomplete):
+1 merciful living steel morningstar (A light mace instead if not allowed to use the half-medusa's free weapon finesse feat to choose one specific one-handed weapon or quarterstaff that is treated as having the finesse trait for the character, similar to the Improved Weapon Finesse class feature of the Dai'dore class from Wheel of Time rpg.)
Value: 8,808 gold (crafting cost: 4,404 gold (crafting savings subtotal: 4,404 gold)
glove of storing (10,000 gold) (where her morningstar (or light mace) is stored)
(background bonus ring) Ring of Forcefangs
Gold spent thus far: 14,404 gold.
Gold still left to spend: 5,596 gold
Crafting Discount still available: 596 gold
Question: For the background story bonus, gain another class feature of 5th level or lower; are we treated as if we have 5 class levels in that class or do we treat our character level as the class level for the class feature chosen?
Seth, it is max hit points for 1st level. 6 was the 5th hit die you rolled (that you did not need to roll)...so you have 6 more hp!! :P
I did not take into consideration that she only gets to roll another hit die if the hit die gained at a level makes her total hit dice higher.
gestalt level 1: max hit points (8 hp)
gestalt level 2: both harpy and medusa gain their 2nd HD: (6 hp)
gestalt level 3: harpy gains third HD,: (1 hp)
gestalt level 4: harpy gains fourth HD, medusa gains third HD: (3 hp)
gestalt level 5: harpy gains fifth HD); (3 hp)
gestalt level 6: medusa gains fourth HD); (no HD roll as she already has 5 HD)
gestalt level 7: harpy gains sixth HD); (5 hp).
Which means she did not gain the last d8 roll, which was the only one that the RNG rolled max hp. Oh, well.
So her total hit points (before Con adjustments and favored class adjustments) is 26.
Excited that her parents finally agreed she could play the game, she rushed to her room to create her avatar for the game. She hit play on her movie viewing screen, the starting credits of Disney's "Gargoyles" starting to play, "It's going to be like I am a real-life gargoyle! I wonder which of the gargoyles to shape my avatar to look like?" She ponders the question as the game's welcome page appears on her gaming screen. "Elisa when she was turned into a gargoyle!" Excited, to the point she is probably going to have to have a tinkle break soon, she navigates to the character creation screen, <"Choose your race. They are listed in alphabetical order for your convenience.">
"Hmm. Angels, nah." She continues to scroll through the options, "Bargest? What is that?" She selects 'barghest', "That's ugly. No thank you!" She continues to scroll through the list, knowing nothing is going to make her change her mind about making her avatar a gargoyle. She has practically been begging her parents for the past year to get her the game so she could make a gargoyle avatar so can feel like she's gliding like her 'best friends'. <"Basilisk"> She pauses to watch the first scene of her favorite show set in medieval Scotland, then continues her search. <"Centaur, Chimera.>" That option makes her pause as she reads the mini description aloud, "Choose three creatures of myth to render the starting point for what your chimera avatar could look like. For example you could play a cyclops/dragon/manticore chimera."
"Sookie, dinner's ready!" her mother calls up from downstairs.
Not wanting to risk her parents taking the game from her by her proving their point that she gets too wrapped up in her screens, Like I don't know they met each other in the game before they had me. She heads down stairs, hoping that gargoyle is one of the options for the chimera avatar option...
