SirPeter's page

Remember, there is no "RAW" in 2E.

This isn't 1E.

We have rules for handling "Too good to be true" occurrences, as well as ambiguous rules.

Treat it as a 3rd level spell until it gets Errata'd.

I'll trail in this way, for sure. My question here is more a necessity of clarification around this point, since the text in Gods & Magic says something differently than the general rules says. And as specific things should prevail over general, it became dubious, at minimum.

SirPeter wrote:

breithauptclan wrote:

My guess is typo. Even if the cleric gained access to the spell at character level 3 when they can cast 2nd level spells, they still couldn't put a 3rd level spell into a 2nd level spell slot.

So functionally it would be equivalent to giving access to the spell at 3rd level (character level 5).

More than a year since the release and they didn't fixed the typo? Hmmm... I don't think so. Let's see if somebody will post anything more than a "guess".

Anyone on these forums (other than the mythic rare dev presence) who says that their opinion on what a developer thinks is more than just a guess is lying to you.

SirPeter wrote:

And by RAW, Aqueous Orb is a 2nd level spell for a Hanspur's cleric (as written in the book), not 3rd, so he can use it when reach level 3 in his class as a 2nd level spell. Unless there is an official errata/FAQ/clarification about it. And that is what I want to know.

I would invoke ambiguous rules. Getting a 3rd level spell as a 2nd level spell is too good to be true. Especially if there is no availability for the spell to exist at that level. We don't have rules for lowering a spell below its minimum listed level. Aqueous Orb doesn't have any heightened effects or give any damage, but I wouldn't want to set the precedent for other spells.

The alternate interpretation that this is a typo is much more reasonable.

Please, show me the part that I told that someone was lying.

The only thing I've been saying is that at Gods & Magic, clerics of Hanspur cast Aqueous Orb as a 2nd level spell - and it is written there.

Again: can be a typo? Maybe. Exactly because of this, it must be clarified or we will stand in an eternal discussion around guesses, not RAW.

SirPeter wrote:

And on page 130 of Gods & Magic says that Aqueous Orb is a 2nd level spell for clerics, not that you gain it when reach level 2 in the class.

I really don't see what point this distinction is supposed to make. Obviously, they know that you would gain the spell into your tradition at Character Level 3, as evidenced by their clarifications. Suggesting they aren't understanding this concept is a strawman, and suggesting that this distinction you make is important or misunderstood when the contrary has been demonstrated shows your objectivity to be disingenuous.

What they are saying is that this feature (gaining access to a 3rd level spell at Character Level 3) does not designate it to be a 2nd level spell, especially when the rules demonstrate that it is a minimum Spell Level of 3rd, and that you can only cast spells at their minimum Spell Level, and not any lower than that minimum Spell Level. And I agree 100% with this assessment that, at best, you can cast an Aqueous Orb spell from a scroll prior to acquiring Spell Level 3 at Character Level 5.

If we operate under the assumption that the deity spells aren't supposed to give you access to spells you can't cast yet, this means that the given spell for the level is incorrect, and an appropriate substitute must be given, since undercasting a spell from its minimum level is obviously both unintended and not particularly permissible by the rules. If the argument is that it must be a 2nd level spell associated with Water (such as with the Water trait), there is always Obscuring Mist, or even Quench might work instead.

The text at the book says:

"Cleric *Spells* 1st: hydraulic push, *2nd*: aqueous orb, 4th: solid fog."

Note that it doesn't say that when you reach that levels in the class, you gain them. It fixes the spells' level.

Can be a typo? Maybe. Or not. As I said, it need clarification.

SirPeter wrote:

Slamy Mcbiteo wrote:

Well you would have access to the 3rd level spell at 2nd level but you would have no 3rd level spell slot to cast it by RAW until 5th level. But it would be on your list for scrolls. Getting access to the spell does not provide a spell slot or change the level of the spell it just adds it to your list.

Under the Deity section for the cleric class...

"Your deity also adds spells to your spell list. You can prepare these just like you can any spell on the divine spell list, once you can prepare spells of their level as a cleric. Some of these spells aren’t normally on the divine list, but they’re divine spells if you prepare them this way."

Did you read the text at page 130 of Gods & Magic?

It doesn't say that you gain Aqueous Orb at cleric level 2, but as a 2nd level spell, so you can cast it when you reach cleric level 3. In the same way you got Solid Fog as a 4th spell level, not at cleric level 4, so you can cast it only when reach cleric level 7.

So, as written, Aqueous Orb is a 2nd level spell for a Hanspur's cleric.

Denitetively it must be clarifeied.

I did read the line on page 130 in Gods and Magic. Did you read the line from page 118 in the core rule book that I posted?

The spell gets added to your list at 2nd level, before that it is not on your list. The quote even mentions preparing them once you hit the proper level...it does not mention changing the spell level or giving you free slots or anything...just that it adds it to your list at 2nd level. Seems pretty clear to me, the benefit is you can now use scrolls of the spell where before 2nd level you could not.

Core rule book page 118
"Your deity also adds spells to your spell list. You can prepare these just like you can any spell on the divine spell list, once you can prepare spells of their level as a cleric. Some of these spells aren’t normally on the divine list, but they’re divine spells if you prepare them this way."

And on page 130 of Gods & Magic says that Aqueous Orb is a 2nd level spell for clerics, not that you gain it when reach level 2 in the class.

Well you would have access to the 3rd level spell at 2nd level but you would have no 3rd level spell slot to cast it by RAW until 5th level. But it would be on your list for scrolls. Getting access to the spell does not provide a spell slot or change the level of the spell it just adds it to your list.

Under the Deity section for the cleric class...

"Your deity also adds spells to your spell list. You can prepare these just like you can any spell on the divine spell list, once you can prepare spells of their level as a cleric. Some of these spells aren’t normally on the divine list, but they’re divine spells if you prepare them this way."

Did you read the text at page 130 of Gods & Magic?

It doesn't say that you gain Aqueous Orb at cleric level 2, but as a 2nd level spell, so you can cast it when you reach cleric level 3. In the same way you got Solid Fog as a 4th spell level, not at cleric level 4, so you can cast it only when reach cleric level 7.

So, as written, Aqueous Orb is a 2nd level spell for a Hanspur's cleric.

Denitetively it must be clarifeied.

My guess is typo. Even if the cleric gained access to the spell at character level 3 when they can cast 2nd level spells, they still couldn't put a 3rd level spell into a 2nd level spell slot.

So functionally it would be equivalent to giving access to the spell at 3rd level (character level 5).

More than a year since the release and they didn't fixed the typo? Hmmm... I don't think so. Let's see if somebody will post anything more than a "guess".

And by RAW, Aqueous Orb is a 2nd level spell for a Hanspur's cleric (as written in the book), not 3rd, so he can use it when reach level 3 in his class as a 2nd level spell. Unless there is an official errata/FAQ/clarification about it. And that is what I want to know.

Hi guys!

So, as you might know, Aqueous Orb is an arcane/primal level 3 spell.

But in Gods & Magic, page 130, says that clerics of Hanspur got this spell as a level 2 spell.

Is there an official FAQ, errata or clarification about it?

Thank you for your attention.

Any more thoutghts? :)

SirPeter wrote:

Hi, folks!

I'm currently playing with a human (half-elf) tempest oracle in AoA. I'm a bit lost in how to make an effective build. I took the dragon scholar campaign background, thinking in make something linked to dragons, but I'm not certain if it was a good idea. The party already have a healer (a rogue/medic), so I'm think a better way to go is a kind of controller/blaster build. Can you help me with this? I'm oppened to suggestions about stats, talents, spells, skill feats, etc. The only thing I cannot change is the race and class/mystery.
Thank you!

Please don't try to feel this as a criticism. It's just to help me understand.

But why do you choose the tempest oracle? Why not a tempest druid or a cleric with some elemental lord as deity or a wizard or even a (cough cough) winter witch?
What exactly in tempest oracle shines to you?

This will help us to better understand what do you really want to do with your build.

Well, I used to love this class in the first edition and I tried to make one to play in this AP. I choose Tempest 'cause I see in any of those guides over there, that this mystery was useful for some battlefield control - but until now (we are finishing the 1st book, party level 4), I can't see what makes it a consistent controller.

SirPeter wrote:

Hi, folks!

I'm currently playing with a human (half-elf) tempest oracle in AoA. I'm a bit lost in how to make an effective build. I took the dragon scholar campaign background, thinking in make something linked to dragons, but I'm not certain if it was a good idea.

Alright so here's some sad info about AoA. The first two books are a bad time for blasting outside of one fight in book two, but only if you approach it like idiots (as me and mine did). Most everything early has strong reflex saves so already mediocre AoE damage is going to do even less.

Your stats will be 10/14/14/10/12/18. You can flaw str and int if you want for whatever. Alternatively, if you're a crazed melee storm oracle, you take champion dedication at 2 for heavy and run 16/8/14/8/12/18. This is an awful idea, don't do this.

Dragon scholar is great because you're a cha caster and will be putting your skill boosts into intimidate and the skill feat is a nice bonus.

Early game, your offensive routine will be electric arc + reach, intimidate, strike or stride. Arc is great because it targets two enemies so when they both save you get full value compared to every other cantrip. Depending on if your gm allows time for retraining, you may want to consider using human 1 to get bow proficiency for the early game and retrain it into something else after book 1 ends. If you took reach with human 1, you can strike+reach+focus spell. The focus spell targets fort so it'll be better early, but also hoses any chance you have at ranged combat.

If your party has another martial aside from the rogue, you should be good for the first 70ish% of AoA book 1 even if you put in 0 thought. When my group ran it we started with just one (fighter) who ran train over everything with the occasional heal spell to keep them up. As long as you're ready with that and the occasional buff, you shouldn't have any issues with being (and being seen as) effective. Especially if your whole group is new and you haven't collectively learned...

Thank you so much for the advice! :)

EDIT: the party have a Rogue, a Wizard, an Oracle (me), and a Barbarian.

Any archetype that helps? Maybe Sorcerer dedication for some damage spells with Air/Water?

Any archetype to suggest?

What about the skills and skill feats?

Hi, folks!
I'm currently playing with a human (half-elf) tempest oracle in AoA. I'm a bit lost in how to make an effective build. I took the dragon scholar campaign background, thinking in make something linked to dragons, but I'm not certain if it was a good idea. The party already have a healer (a rogue/medic), so I'm think a better way to go is a kind of controller/blaster build. Can you help me with this? I'm oppened to suggestions about stats, talents, spells, skill feats, etc. The only thing I cannot change is the race and class/mystery.
Thank you!

Hi, folks!
I'm currently playing with a human (half-elf) tempest oracle in AoA. I'm a bit lost in how to make an effective build. I took the dragon scholar campaign background, thinking in make something linked to dragons, but I'm not certain if it was a good idea. The party already have a healer (a rogue/medic), so I'm think a better way to go is a kind of controller/blaster build. Can you help me with this? I'm oppened to suggestions about stats, talents, spells, skill feats, etc. The only thing I cannot change is the race and class/mystery.
Thank you!

Hi!

I'll start Age of Ashes AP soon and I made a Tempest Oracle.
He is human (half-elf), tha stas are Str 10, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12 and Cha 16.
I took the Dragon Scholar background (campaign background). The ancestry feat was Elf Actavism (cavern elf) for darkvision, but I'm open to change this.
The skill choices were Deception, Diplomacy, Intimidation (I think are good choices for a CHA-based PC), and Medicine for non-combat healing. Of course Religion for the class and Nature for the Mystery.
I selected Detect Magic, Guidance, Forbidding Ward, Stabilize and Read Aura as cantrips (and Electric Arc from the Mystery), then Heal, Bless and Santuary as 1st level spells.
The party is made by a Rogue, a Wizard and a Barbarian.
I plan to play my Oracle as kind of controller and support, but I don't know the better way to do it, or even if I started it well.
So, I need your help to build this as effective as the party needs. If you could suggest feats (general, skills, ancestry), spells, archetypes, everything, level by level, I'll be very thankfull, since I tried to look for some builds advice here and there, I find nothing direct and interesting.
Thank you for the attention!

manbearscientist wrote:

An Oracular Archer

Class: Oracle (Tempest/Hanspur)
Ancestry: Elf (Ancient)
Elf Feats: Elven Weapon Familiarity, Elemental Wrath

1-Ranger Dedication
2-Divine Aegis
4-Bespell Weapon
6-Divine Access (hydraulic push, aqueous orb, solid fog)
8-Quick Draw (Ranger)
10-Gravity Weapon (Ranger)
12-Eldritch Archer Dedication
14-Mysterious Repertoire (Disintegrate)
16-Quickened Casting
18-Seeker Arrow
20-Oracular Providence
Final Stats:18/22/18/16/10/22

Another 'ole Eldritch Archer build. This ones shtick is that it dips heavily out of the Divine tree for Solid Fog and Disintegrate and using the Tempest mystery to see through all forms of fog and mist.

The problem with this is simple: obscuring mist and solid fog aren't divine spells and obscuring mist isn't offered as a cleric spell by any god. So before level 8, the only way to take advantage of your mystery naturally is to be setup by allies, spend 5 actions using Trick Magic Item on a wand, or best of all use a Horn of Fog if allowed by your GM.

But once we get up to 14, the fun really begins. Before the fight, we buff up with Heroism and Foresight. Upon entering combat, We first set-up with Quickened Casting>Solid Fog, then cast Gravity Weapon. The following turn, we begin unleashing Bespell Weapon>Eldritch Shot turn after turn.

This isn't really much more damaging than any other Eldritch Shot build (+36 for 4d8+12+5d6+20d10 disintegrate), it's unique thing is the safety of shooting from inside a Solid Fog. Early on, you can approximate this with Horn of Fog+Quick Draw into Spell>Bespell Weapon>Strike.

I liked this build so much.

WHat about the spell repertoire? Wich spells do you recommmed from 1st to 10th?

If you could suggest general and skill feats too, it would be awesome! :)

An Oracular Archer

Class: Oracle (Tempest/Hanspur)
Ancestry: Elf (Ancient)
Elf Feats: Elven Weapon Familiarity, Elemental Wrath

1-Ranger Dedication
2-Divine Aegis
4-Bespell Weapon
6-Divine Access (hydraulic push, aqueous orb, solid fog)
8-Quick Draw (Ranger)
10-Gravity Weapon (Ranger)
12-Eldritch Archer Dedication
14-Mysterious Repertoire (Disintegrate)
16-Quickened Casting
18-Seeker Arrow
20-Oracular Providence
Final Stats:18/22/18/16/10/22

Another 'ole Eldritch Archer build. This ones shtick is that it dips heavily out of the Divine tree for Solid Fog and Disintegrate and using the Tempest mystery to see through all forms of fog and mist.

The problem with this is simple: obscuring mist and solid fog aren't divine spells and obscuring mist isn't offered as a cleric spell by any god. So before level 8, the only way to take advantage of your mystery naturally is to be setup by allies, spend 5 actions using Trick Magic Item on a wand, or best of all use a Horn of Fog if allowed by your GM.

But once we get up to 14, the fun really begins. Before the fight, we buff up with Heroism and Foresight. Upon entering combat, We first set-up with Quickened Casting>Solid Fog, then cast Gravity Weapon. The following turn, we begin unleashing Bespell Weapon>Eldritch Shot turn after turn.

This isn't really much more damaging than any other Eldritch Shot build (+36 for 4d8+12+5d6+20d10 disintegrate), it's unique thing is the safety of shooting from inside a Solid Fog. Early on, you can approximate this with Horn of Fog+Quick Draw into Spell>Bespell Weapon>Strike.

I liked this build so much.

Is the bolt ace fun?

It's not the best class I ever played but, yes, it is very funny. :)

Eh. Any particular reason for fighter? I'm personally much more a fan of slayers. 95% of the combat ability, 250% the out of combat utility. And still a nice straightforward class for when you're not in the mood for complicated wizardry.

I would test the "advanced weapon training" mechanics, a thing that I want a lot and looks cool. Or it's not?

Any Fighter build suggestion?

Giant laser guns? What? LOL!

Hello, Mr. Jacobs!

I have a doubt about the Clustered Shots feat: It works only against damage reduction or works against creatures with hardness too?

Thank you! :)

How about an Unchained Rogue/ Unchained Barbarian Android? Using two-weapon fighting and high crit chance weapons such as Kukris.

Say Rogue 3/ Barbarian 10 sounds pretty effective with dex to hit/damage with both weapons. And if you can get two +1 adamantine furious kukris.

Maybe using the Savage Technologist if you can get your GM to make some changes to it to make it compatible with the Unchained Barbarian.

Here is a build I made when it looked like we would be playing Iron Gods. Android Rogue Barb. sheet

Why have to be Unchained Barbarian and not the standard Barbarian?

Hi!

I'll play the Iron Gods AP, and I'm thinking in take the Robot Slayer trait. The PC is a survival of a massacre did by a robot (or other kind of construct, he doesn't know certainly) in his community or tribe, I did not decided it yet. He becomes some kind of specialist in destroy robots and other kinds of constructs.

The point is: I don't know which class choose. I had thought about Ranger, Barbarian, Fighter, even Alchemist. I want a melee focused build that hit with a real big weapons, to deal well with hardness.

So, I expect suggestions about an interesting build from you, guys! Stats, feats, class, skills, spells and any other tips about the AP (whitout spoiler) to improve the PC, will be welcome.

Thank you! :)

I have a level 1 shaman which I want to rebuild, so I can play with him. Can I do like this?

Dot.

*knock knock* =)

PFS # 113139-5
Character Name/Level Tico Marvillos (Cleric 8)
Faction Liberty Edge

Thank you for let me be part of this! :)

Working on the alias right now...

I'm very thankful to all of you for played this game with me.

Session reported today. I'll close the topic until the end of the day. If you got any problems with the chronicle sheets or anything related with the game, please pm me.

Hope see you soon.

Greetings,

SirPeter.

Is there any chance that Natalya qualifies as a slaver per the Liberty's Edge Faction card? ("a slaver is a creature that owns at least five slaves, is maintaining a compulsion spell or effect to control a creature for at least one day, or is explicitly cited as trafficking slaves." I'm thinking that maybe there could have been a compulsion spell in play with her 'husband'?))

None. She didn't use a spell in the entire scenario. Skelg was convinced by you, that passed on a Diplomacy check DC 15.

@Zachorius I sent a pm to you, asking for your e-mail.

Belabras wrote:

Any word on GM boons?

As soon as I have them, they'll start going out.

Any news about the GM boons? :)

Do we each get one I only see Ahmandé sheet?

Fixed the link.

Chronicle sheets right here. Please, check if it is OK. I'll close the game tomorrow. Hope see you soon. :)

[dice=Roll!]1d20 [dice=Roll again!]1d6

Thanks much for the game!

Congratulations for the boon! :)

@Hádanka, I think that would be wise stay with the lantern. Take a look here (consider it a part of the "Explore, Report, Cooperate" boon you expended):

"...Last, he claims that artifacts of great power are involved, and that we may be able to recover them for the vaults of the Grand Lodge."

=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=

With Evarice's alchemist fire and the wood and oil brought by Tahltria, you don't have much troubles to melt the ice. Once you did it, you hang the Beacon in the figurehead’s mouth and light it, then a portal opens in front of the ship, and all other portals close. The new portal leads to Whitethrone harbor in Irrisen.

You notice that as soon as the new portal is opened, the curse on Skelg suddenly end and he becomes more healthy than ever. As her last aid, Natalya opens another portal to the tapestry in Greydog Manor for you before sailing through.

In Absalom, you meet Adril Hestram at the Grand Lodge again, reports what happend and gives the Beacon to him, which is very grateful to you. "Good job, Pathfinders."

The End

I hope you enjoyed. Just waiting for your d20's results to report the session and give you the chronicle sheets, guys.

For PbP Gameday V:

Evereybody, please, roll a d20.

21 Diplomacy is sufficient.

Skelg seems a bit confused, after all, he thought that they already got a deal.

"You should listen more to her friend", Natalya bows to Evarice. "Thanks her and your polite friend there" - she points to Zachorius - "this won't end in a bloodbath."

"If you want so much this lantern, 'mr. brave elf', I'll let you stay with it. You leave my ship, then Skelg comes with me to Irrisen."

"So, there is a figurehead of a dragon in the front of the ship. All you have to do is melt the seven feet of ice that is frozen it, hang the Beacon in the figurehead's mouth and light it, then the curse on Skelg fades away."

I swear that I never expected those reactions, ha ha ha! It seems that nobody here already played this scenario in standard mode before, or GM'd it, huh?

I'll wait a little more for Evarice and Zachorius posts, mainly for their Diplomacy checks.

I think it's time for more Diplomacy checks.

"Natalya. Yes, yes, I remember her. A beautiful woman. I rescued Natalya, who was about to be sacrificed on her husband’s funeral pyre. I left her aboard Haldyr’s ship to sail where she wished", he pauses for awhile... "and yes, as I told you, I looted the ship and this lantern must have come into my vault with the spoils of war. Tyros, come here", the servant goes to his master and helps him get up.

"I was about to retire, you know..." said the debilitated ulfen, "but my presence at the seas seems necessary now. And she is a beautiful woman... She is from an aristocratic family from Irrisen, I think. She was given in marriage to Haldyr as a political strategy. Maybe we could support each other...", you feel a mix of hope and optimism in Skelg's tone, which seems happy in navigate the seas with Natalya.

You help to conduct Skelg through the portal and reach Natalya's room, who could not hide the smile of satisfaction when see Skelg. She whispered a few words in his direction...

Natalya suddenly recompose herself and asks you: "so, the lantern is mine and he will stay with me. Do you agree with these terms? I want to hear it from all of you."

She stretches her hands toward who is holding The Beacon of the North, suggesting to give it to her, while wait for your responses.

Ok, it is simple: everybody have to say if agree, or not. If try to lie to her in any way, like saying that the lantern is hers, but want to take it back at the end, wil need to make a bluff check.

@Ahmandé just to remember: it's not only to Skelg goes there, but stay there with her ("convince Skelg to navigate by my side")...

Diplomacy checks will be necessary at this point.

"Beggin' yer pardon, can ya give us yer name so we may tell Skelg who bekcons 'im? And if we bring the lantern through the portal, will it close and leave us trapped here?"

"Oh, yes. Tell him that Natalya Yagevna would like his company on her ship", she grins.

"And about the portal: as long as you keep the lantern lighted, the portal still hold. In other words, you don't have to leave the lantern back and cross the portal. You can open the portal and carry the lantern with you. The only problem is if the oil of the lantern finish off and it becomes unlit", these were her last words before you cross the portal back to the Greydog Manor.

Once there, Tyros receives you anxiously, bringing you as fast as he could to his master. As you entered in his room, Skelg readily asks you: "so, you discovered a way to end the curse?"

Somebody will follow Evarice?

"HA HA HA!", the woman laughs at Ahmandé's face. "What makes you think that I want to curse the man who saved my life? Oh, wait a minute... Skelg didn't tell you that he raided Haldyr's funeral ship, stole some items - one of them was The Beacon of the North - and saved my life? And left me alon...", she stops talk.

"Now, the deal have other terms: The Beacon of the North is mine. Give it back to me, and convince Skelg to navigate by my side, bringing him here, then I'll break the curse and everyone will be happy. Otherwise, get out already from my room and go find a way to help Skelg by yourselves."

She turns to Ahmandé: "and if you speak in this tone with me again, I'll paint the ground with the blood of your entrails."

"There is something troubling you about all of this. Was it the mask we found below? One of the undead oarmen wore it."

"So, it seems you finally put an end on Haldyr's existance, my 'dear' husband. Not bad at all. Be careful. Those who die here, rise as an undead. Like your friend... What was his name? Hmmm... Tify? Tirfyr? Tirtis? Something like this, as you told before."

Hmm... Obviously you know how to operate the Lantern. Suppose you just tell us how to operate it. Then we won't need to involve any authorities in this attempted murder.

"Attempted murder? But I even started", she gives a diabolic smile to you.

"So, what can you tell us about this lantern?"

The elf notices that the woman doesn't follow him, she stands still where she was when you entered.

"I don't have to give explanations to you", she stops for awhile... "BUT! There is something that you have to now. This lantern, The Beacon of the North is mine and was stolen from my ship and I know how to stop the curse on Skelg."

The woman looks at you as if she was analysing each one. "And correct me if I'm wrong, but you have oil for the lantern only for a more couple of hours, huh?", she grins.

""No, I don't wanna leave my ship", she answered Evarice. "Let's do this way: bring the lantern to me and I stay with it, then as a gesture of gratitude I free Sk... I mean, your friend from the curse. Got a deal?"