Goblin Squad Member. Organized Play Member. 253 posts (307 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 Organized Play character. 1 alias.
1. Do you currently like pathfinder 1e? (I know it sounds loaded, but please bare with me.) yes
2. Did you once like pathfinder 1e but now find it troublesome? (feel free to give details.) yes, too much added afterwards
3. Do you like 4th or 5th edition D&D? (Also sounds loaded but again no judgments) 4th no, 5th better. I didn't play 4th. I played a little of 5th
4. Which are you looking for class balance, smoother high level play, more options, or even all of those things? (Small edit: these weren't meant to be mutually excursive, I just want the gist of what you're looking for, feel free to add additional thoughts/desires as well.) all of them
5. How do you feel about making the game more accessible in general? Yes
6. Are you willing to give up on accessibility if you can still gain all of the benefits listed in question 4? Yes
7. Would you be willing to play an alternative rules system then what we have been presented? (A different version of pathfinder 2nd edition if you will). Yes
8. And if you said yes to the above question what would you like to see in that theoretical game? (Most of you will see what I'm doing here, I'm finding common ground) pf1 and pf2.
In general, pf1 was good in a lot things, but some things needed redone. From pf1 I would use the races and skill system, probably the feat system. From pf2 I would the spell system and character generation system. But all of the systems would need some work.
18 strength is 18 strength, just because I am a foot shorter and 50lbs lighter shouldn't change that. It's shouldn't make a difference on lifting. It should only mean things that fit me weigh less because there is less material.
A goblin with 18 str and a giant with 18 str can carry 9 bulk before being encumbered. They both wear plate mail, the goblins weighs 2 bulk and the giants 4 bulk due to size.
It comes down to some things are learned, some things are genetic. If it is genetic, ie darkvision, immune to sleep, resistance to poison, you should just have it. If it learned, racism, racial weapons, able to better fight giants, then it can be an option and learned later in life. Pretty simple if you ask me
Trolls aside, it was fun and learning. We did what we could with the current mechanics. Your tactics in getting a defense up was a good idea. It just happened we couldn't continue even if we wanted. Rep reasons. You came and did what I would call a safe fire training exercise. We made sure to not "farm" any one on our attack and you all did the same. Although we did kill D. Brutus a bit because we didn't want scouts in our area. His stubbornness did win out and we relented.
Right now as a melee character you cant catch anyone who is just willing to run from you. If you give a bow man an ability that hits for 10 damage but lets him move at full speed he will use that to kill everyone he meets very slowly. Except other range people.
Right now u can't kill any one who wants to run from ueven if u are ranged.
I remember fighting for anonymity for reasons of ambushes and assassination. I had an in depth idea but it would be some thing for later down the road. For now, it would be nice to company mates, group mates, and a raid group interface.
Targeting should be a bit easier. A bigger area to targe etc. As for identity, mouse over mini map for a name. You should remember names or have a list, its not that hard.
Half the problem I see is you all are worried about leveling stuff. I have played 8+ hours each day. I don't feel like it's a grind. We conquered an escelation, striped mined a hex, and built up a store of resources for our people. We have had any where from 3 to 7 or 8 people together to do things. We are TS having fun. We also been about killing ppl. Sorry if that was one of you. There was plenty to do with out worrying about what I need to level. I think doing other things will take some of that boredom away.
But I also think that healing should help you meet those gates. Also, healing needs a little range. 10m or so would be good in my eyes.
Welcome to the forums! A lot of us have been here for quite some time, years for some. We love to see new people and hear new ideas. We are glad to see you.
With that said, please remember this is Alpha. This game is far from finished. Things are broke, things aren't in game yet, some are temporary. Of you are unsure about the way it is working, ask. There are a lot of well informed people around.
One thing we have learned is, Goblinworks listens. But being negative won't get you much attention by them. If you don't like the way some thing works, state why and purpose a solution, or ask if there isn't a better way. For over two years we have been going back and forth with them to come up with waits to get this game to work as intended. New ideas are welcome and probably needed.
Also, we as a community have strived to keep negativity and toxic behavior out. A good debate is great and needed. But the negativity isn't. Our current community is awesome, but we are going to be getting tons of new faces. Please help to keep things going in the right direction.
That's true, but it doesn't address the extreme disparity between short bow and long bow.
Not having tried out the longbow, is there a large difference in the damage between the two?
There is a huge damage difference between the two. I run a rogue with daredevil and bow specailization along with the long bow, 1-shot 75% of the normal mobs. 2-shots <sometimes 3> the smaller yellows. The ogres. yellow or orange take several shots. For short burst DPS, long bow is the only way to go.
As sustained DPS, I haven't tried a short bow on any thing that big.... kiting for 3 minutes straight to kill one mob isn't on my to do list. Especially if long bow downs it in 6 or less shots. Sp I am not sure if stamina drain is going to even out the DPS in longer fights, but rogues aren't going for long fights anyways.
All-in-all, I think short bows need a little boost.
So either 4.25 DF at 3.2 CD or 2.8 DF ar 5.7 CD... I know what one I have been choosing. Especially since overdraw makes target flatfooted for the next shot so I get sneak attack damage. Then you have range in case they dont go down in one shot... just saying.
Rogue attacks deal extra damage when enemies have conditions like flat footed or unbalanced, not when the rogue is behind the enemy or another player is targeted by the enemy.
Minor correction, but the Rogue Feature "Cut-Throat" grants "Sneak Attack on Untargeted", which I'm pretty sure means the Rogue does extra damage if his target is targeting someone else.
Minor correction, extra damage if the rogue isn't targeted by the target. The target doesn't have to have some one targeted for this condition.
To stop the unaffiliated gatherers, how about limiting them to how much they can harvest in claimed hexes. If a gatherer needs bulk or a lot of materials he is likely to belong to a settlement, company or something, otherwise why does he need all that material? Belonging to one of those should get you the ability to use PvP to protect your resources. That limited can be lifted next to the starting settlements to allow gatherers to start working on their skills before heading out into the world.
Bluddwolf wrote:
Scarlette, just because the character is unaffiliated, doesn't mean the player is.
Does it really matter if the player is affiliated? Rep isn't based on the player, its based on the character and their in game actions.
Bluddwolf wrote:
Bottom line is, you as the settlement controlling the hex, either losing an amount of resources to these Ninja Harvesters or you turn your settlement into NBSI. That will open your settlement up to more corruption and more PVP.
Some of us have played in alpha now, so think about the answers to these questions:
1. Can anyone really control who is harvesting nodes in their lands?
Given the proper tools we can try.
Bluddwolf wrote:
2. How many players do you really think will be willing to take rep losses, now that they realize the extreme cost of low reputation?
Not many, which is why I said limited the amount the unaffiliated gatherer can harvest. That way he can't do enough harvesting to cause a problem.
Bluddwolf wrote:
3. Every harvester, even if criminal flagged, may be bait just waiting for an attack. How long do you figure before the NBSI turns a settlement's controlled lands into a PVP playground?
If gatherers must be affiliated to do enough harvesting to cause your settlement a problem, and they come and do that, it is an act of sabotage and your settlement should declare a feud/war.
Bluddwolf wrote:
Ninja Harvesting is Risk and Consequence free banditry, just in a new form. Even if you limit the amount, that will have a timer on it and Ninja Harvesters can rotate out. Besides, I don't think GW has the money, time or wants to devote the effort to stopping this emergent game play that their own system creates.
And once again, if they are affiliated you can take action. If they aren't, then they can't harvest enough to worry about.
I started this thread to gather information on the resources needed to be up to date on the Crusader Roads starting area for the beginning of the game. Whats happening in the story line, the history leading up to it, the faction that will be active, etc.
I'm a little iffy about them putting recipes on monsters and the like. I was wanting to go pure crafting and become a kind of merchant since I remember they do reward players more for specializing in one area over spreading their skills around in multiple classes. So, wouldn't that really restrict the kinds of skills I could really work at improving without having to hire on a group of people for a chance drop?
I imagine recipes will be saleable on the markets, so your pure crafter could simply buy the recipes. Whether or not the better recipes will be readily available in the manner, or whether they'll be so rare that it'll be extremely difficult to find them on the open market, I guess we'll see.
If *every* recipe were discoverable purely through skill unlocks and never-leave-town crafting, everybody could learn everything given enough time which wouldn't be that interesting, so it does seem appropriate to put them out in the world.
I suppose my main issue there is that if you're a crafter you need refined materials from the people who have refining as their class and recipes from the PvE people out there. There's less of a means to generate wealth to start with. Seems like it requires quite a bit of an initial investment of some kind. Whereas if you are of the class that harvests quite a bit, you can sell stuff. If you PvE, you can sell stuff. There's a way to create some sort of starting wealth to work with from those avenues. Does that make sense?
Didn't see you get an answer for this so here's my take on it.
All but starting equipment will be player crafted. People will need swords soon after starting. They will give you a recipe and materials for one so they can have and thus you have a recipe now. More people will want a sword, you have the recipe so they can supply you with material for several swords as payment. Now you can make several and give that guy one. Now you have a couple to sell. Also, it might take several hours before some one might have to buy one, you can run along and help kill some things for some materials or money, possibly a recipe. Some more starting wealth. I don't see it being very long before your craft will be able to support you.
Networking will be key to this. Let people know you will be a dedicated crafter and as soon as some one gets what is needed, you will make one.
With the new blog out on PoI's, I started this thread to get ideas flowing for my "Bat Cave". We can assume that hide-outs are a PoI much like a watch tower or inn. They aren't resource producers and are more permanant than a mine etc.
So let's start the process of building my "Bat Cave". First thing is to clear this hex of its monsters and claim it. Once that is done, the first group of questions come up. With my "Bat Cave" active, will monsters respawn? This question is important due to the fact that the absence of monsters would be a give away that the PoI has been claimed. If it has been claimed, people are going to be curious what's there, probably leading to discovery. Monster would provide some cover as to the "Bat Cave" being in that area. If so, how many should there be? This could be considered an upgrade possibly. Do you have to keep the balance so you aren't over run or possibly have this controlled by upgrade options also. They could be considered your gaurds, non aggressive to you and named allies by default.
Now my "Bat Cave" is established, it has two outposts nearby. A second group of questions come to mind. Can other people use those outposts? If some one else tries to use it, will it notify them of my presence? Would I be notified of thier presence? Can they be used as an extension of my "Bat Cave"?
Whats going to be available for my "Bat Cave"? Is it going to be considered a watch tower with stealth for all intent and purpose? Will it have a storage and power regeneration properties?
Just some questions and ideas I have. Put some input and suggestions in.
A friend and I started playing WoW together, his first MMO. One time when we were playing together he gives away this 1% rare purple drop. I was like, "Holey crap dude, you could have sold that on auction for a boat load !" He thought it was blue. Come to find out he is color blind. Red and orange, blue and purple look like the same color to him. He didn't know they had a color blind setting.
No dot= White item <common>
One dots= Green item <magic>
Two dots= Blue item <Rare>
Three dots= Purple item <Epic>
Four dots= Orange item <Legendary>
Monsters levels etc were done in the same fashion. And of coarse the name plates also had a different design also for type, rare, elite etc.
So my question is this, now that I finally got to it... is PFO going to add a setting for this ?? I truelly hope so.
I am choosing PFO as my main for a few simple reasons.
1> I heard of it first.
2> I have been playing DnD for a long time. My uncle has the original 3 pamphlets it was released as.
3> While I loved RvR in DAoC and DAoC itself, I tend to spend alot time playing and need more than just PvP now a days. Although in WoW I leveled via BGs.
3> I already like this community and believe we will make this game a lot fun.
While every one loves the 3 faction PvP, I think it was more fact you could happened on to two sides going at it, and it was a free for all for you. I would love picking off healers of the winning side to see it the encounter turn out equal. Then when it gets down to the last few, cleaning them all out. 8v8(v1 that they didn't see lurking in the shadows>, and I am the winner. That or our gank group runs in and PBAoEs them all. We had a 75% win average, the other 25% we just had our ass handed to us. But that was the fun. I can see that type of potential in this game. Maybe not the exact same, but the feel will be there.
I'll play CU, but I am more of a one game person. The will be PFO
I am also just a hobbyist. I build AMD rigs. The one that bugs me is that they been stuck on DDR2 instead of DDR3. Some thing to check into if you build one.
10 set of eyes are better than one, and brains to go with it only helps to see things from different views and helps keep things from being missed. It could help inspire an idea that makes what we all want possible.
My favorite game for a lot reasons was DAoC. The combat system included reactionary combos, position, and poisons. PvP combat included rams, catapults, trebuchets, and climbable walls for stealthers.
[edit] The one thing I didn't like about it was the sleep and stuns. I had a gank group for PvP, we AoE stunned, spammed PBAoE( point-blank area of effect) every one to death in about 5 secs. Speed buff, AoE CCer, group heals, 2 PBAoE casters and gone in 6 seconds. Hit and run.
I agree that being seen at 30 feet away is too far for some one who is maxed out in stealth against some one who has no perception. In its current state, perception is an equal counter to stealth. I believe this needs to change some what. I don't believe stealth=invisible, but I do believe that some one trained to get close with out notice should be able to stand next to you before you notice if your not trained to notice that. It is a specialized type skill. While perception is the ability to see things, it isn't specialized the same way. Sense motive seems to be a more appropriate skill. Any "class" that would have stealth as a class skill should go against that instead of just perception. That or get a bonus to those percentages. Some form to show that its an innate feature of the "class" role, not just some thing they picked up. The ordinary perception shouldn't be on equal footing.
Having playing DAoC when it was just Shrouded Isle, at RR7.2 my shadowblade was one to be feared. I loved it. But in DAoC stealth=invisible. In PFO it doesn't. In PFO you are visible, so in open area sneaking up to some one as close as 20 yards is extremely hard. Now add terrain into the mixture. You have trees, bushes, grass, etc. to help conceal you. You also have distractions going on. Its not likely some one is just standing out there looking for a stealther(not that they couldn't be.)
You also interchange yards and feet, which is a big difference. 20 yards is 3 times further than 20 feet. So when we get down to percentages, its huge difference. 10% of a 100 yards is about 33 feet where 10 of 100 feet is 10 feet. All this aside, remember that the percentage has no context in distance yet. There is also modifiers we probably don't know about yet.
All in all, I have been worried about the stealth mechanic. This last blog has a lot of stuff I like in it. While Qallz may be extreme, his reasons are not to be discarded. But I'm sure after play testing GW will do a great job.
Loving the ideas in this thread. I don't like the idea of one guy being good at everything. I believe if an item is worth using, that it has to come from some one who has put training into it. The inverted pyramid style is the best set up imo, and PF already has the weapons broke down into weapon groups. Hopefully it will be equally easy to break down alchemy, buildings, siegecraft, and others.
I was talking about making the influence cost be high enough, that you couldn't afford to pay for an ambush more than once every couple of days. But I like the idea of a timer better. A cool down that is for every one in the ambush. Some one in the group targets the caravan and uses the ambush option, group members get a pop-up asking if they are ambushing also. Saying yes starts your cool down. Saying no(or your ambush on CD) means you are taking full penalties.
Caravans are rarely just one merchant, and thus shouldn't be considered one unit. Merchant A may want to try and run while merchant B would rather stay and defend his goods. The cost of a caravan should only be materialistic in the form of wagons, guards, and drivers. Caravan routes shouldn't be restricted to road only, but to terrain that can support the weight of loaded wagons. A caravan going off road takes more time to reach their destination and thus are vulnerable for a longer time.
SAD also shouldn't be the only way to confront a caravan as PvP sanctioned. Ambush should also be included, but with a high enough influence cost to keep it from becoming an everyday thing. But if you are willing to pay it, you only take the alignment hit, not the rep hit.
I agree totally with this. They should only get information of people who you grouped with, traded with, made contracts with etc, not an OOC tool use for convenience and fun.
I Truelly hope theres a "Display" name other than just your true character name. This goes back to getting to know some one before you know there life story. If we meet out on the street and I tell you my name is Bob, how do you know the its not unless you have some other information. I mentioned this before in other threads, have several levels of identification. Instead of the name depending on the target, make it depend on the observer. Heres an example:
<Target> Server ID = player 392
Level 1 ID = what ever name the observer gives you
Level 2 ID = the display name the <target> made
Level 3 ID = true name and general info on <target>
Level 4 ID = true name plus all info on <target>
Then you make what level ID the observer gets dependant on the interaction and other variables, Observation skill, disguise etc. Yes I understand this may take quite abit of resources on the server side but it wsould be awesome to see.
Not all characters can offer or accept a given type of contract. Engaging in some contracts may require skill training, merit badges, and specific character abilities.
Contracts are transparent to all parties. When a contract is offered, all the terms of that contract are set and made visible to anyone who can accept the contract. When you take on a contract, you're doing so with full advance knowledge of the terms you're agreeing to. Once made, contracts cannot be changed.
Some contracts are offered from one character directly to another, usually when those characters are in the same area. Other contracts may be posted on centralized notice boards, and will be visible when a character visits the location of that board.
The person who issues a contract has several options that determine who can accept it. It can name a specific character, a chartered company, a settlement, or a kingdom. Further restrictions can be imposed: required or prohibited alignments, required or prohibited races, required or prohibited archetypes, etc.
Contracts cannot be available forever; they have a limited duration when they're available to be accepted. This will keep the contract system from becoming glutted with old, forgotten contracts.
Contracts are always in one of several status types:
Open: The contract has been offered but has not been accepted
Expired: The contract has been offered but was not accepted before it expired
Accepted: The contract has been offered and accepted but has not been completed
Overdue: The contract has been offered and accepted but the time frame specified in the terms has expired
Abandoned: The contract has been offered and accepted but was subsequently abandoned
Closed: The contract has been offered and accepted and has been completed
You'll be able to see all the contracts you've offered and/or accepted, and their current status, at any time.
Types of Contracts
We're currently envisioning several different contract types:
Assassination Contract
The accepting party agrees to kill a target player character. Can be accepted by more than one party. No time limit to complete. No cost for abandoning the contract. The amount offered for the assassination is placed in escrow on creation of the contract. Completing this contract is a criminal, evil act that will result in an alignment shift. The contract automatically closes on completion.
Assassinations themselves require a whole dev blog to discuss, and most of the ideas we have for them are still very formative.
Auction Contract
Auctions have their own special systems. We'll write more about the way markets and auctions will work in an upcoming dev blog.
Bounty Contract
The accepting party agrees to kill a target murderer. Can be accepted by multiple parties. No time limit to complete. No cost for abandoning the contract. A bounty contract is automatically completed when the target of a bounty is killed. The bounty amount is placed in escrow on creation of the contract. These contracts can only be created after a character has been murdered. Automatically closes if the murderer is killed, though the bounty may be renewed.
This is the mechanical expression of the idea of the bounty discussed in the dev blog To Live and Die in the River Kingdoms.
Guard Contract
The accepting party agrees to be logged in and present at a designated location during a specified time frame. Can be accepted by multiple parties, up to a limit specified by the terms. Abandonment of the contract or failure to fulfill the terms forfeits an amount of coin held in escrow as defined by the contract. The party offering the contract specifies an account to fund the contract when the contract is created. The agreed fee for the guard is placed in escrow each time the contract is accepted. If the fee cannot be put in escrow, the contract cannot be accepted. Can only be seen and accepted at the location where the contract is offered.
Loan Contract
On acceptance, an amount of coin, as described in the contract, is transferred from the offering party to the accepting party. The accepting party agrees to transfer another specified amount of coin to the offering party within a specified time frame. Can only be accepted by one party. The coin to be loaned is placed in escrow on creation of the contract. The contract can also specify a manifest of collateral items which must be provided by the accepting party and which are placed in escrow on acceptance. If the contract is abandoned or terminated by the accepting party, characters in the accepting party will gain a 30-day criminal flag, any items in escrow will be transferred to the offering party, and the alignment of characters in the accepting party will shift towards chaotic. Can only be seen and accepted at the location where the contract is offered.
In practice, the difference between the amount offered and the amount repaid is the effective interest on the loan.
Purchase Contract
The accepting party agrees to sell a designated manifest of gear or other items at a specified price. Can only be accepted by one party. Completes automatically on acceptance. Cannot be accepted unless the items on the manifest are immediately available to meet the contract terms. Delivery is at a location specified in the terms. The purchase price is placed in escrow on creation of the contract. Can only be seen and accepted at the location where the contract is offered.
Sale Contract
The accepting party agrees to buy a designated manifest of gear or other items. Can only be accepted by one party. Completes automatically on acceptance. Cannot be accepted unless funds are immediately available to meet the contract terms. Delivery is at a location specified in the terms. The items in the manifest are placed in escrow on creation of the contract. Can only be seen and accepted at the location where the contract is offered.
Transportation Contract
The accepting party agrees to move a designated manifest from one location to another location within a specific time frame. Can only be accepted by one party. Abandonment of the contract or failure to fulfill the terms forfeits an amount of coin held in escrow as defined by the contract. The items on the manifest are placed in escrow on creation of the contract and are delivered to the storage of the accepting party on acceptance of the contract at the defined location.
In Closing
We expect that characters will be constantly offering and accepting contracts, and that they'll be the mechanism by which a lot of player interaction happens. Ideally, most of the commercial, diplomatic, and adventuring activities in the game will develop through player-to-player contracting. If somebody offers you a reward for bringing them 10 rat tails, it will be because another player needs 10 rat tails for some reason, not just because an NPC has an exclamation point bobbing over his head. We think that will make questing much more meaningful and interesting to everyone.
I hate over the top spell animations. All the blinking, flashing, and other animations from 10 poeple casting at the same guy clog up my screen, making it really hard to see what the target is doing. Gestures and motion are alot better. Less is more
Seriously though, its an awesome idea. Considering economy is a main focus, they will want thing to drive it. Thus I see caravans, horses, mules and wagons to convey your goods from place to place.
I will put it simply as I see it. The merit badge is the important thing. It's what gives you access to abilities, skills, equipment, etc. It takes the appropriate skills to unlock the merit badge. The real time skill learning is only a tool used to control progression rate. In this way, they keep every one from being max levels in a couple weeks. This will make the games life span longer, with out being pushed for more content.
@Pheos -- (Disclaimer:Fictional example incoming) If you want the 5% armor bonus, you need the merit badge "Armored Knight" which grants it. "Armored Knight" will require a strength score of 12 and armor skill 3, and will require you to have wore plate armor through 5 encounters taking at least 2 hits that lowered your HP by 15% each. Now armor skill level 3 takes a total of two weeks worth of training, if starting at skill level 0.
In this way, it will take you at least two weeks to get this bonus. It also requires you to play the role, wearing the armor and actually taking the hits. It means it will probably be a benefit to you, and that your character is experienced in taking hits and would know how to utilize the armor better. Like I said, this is a fictious example and the names and requirements just off the top of my head.
@Mel -- I also dislike the infinate advancement, but I think it has relevance. I think though it should come at the cost of taking more time to learn. I will use class levels as an example, and capstone ability as 20th level. Say a player has reached level 15 towards a capstone ability, it should take longer than normal to learn a skill not in his skill tree. If a rogue wants to learn arcane spells, at level 15 is pretty set in his rogue ways, and would be a little tougher to learn magic. Also consider that he would have to keep in practice in his rogue ways and have less time for study. Just my opinion
Love all that this game seems to be evolving into. As for a LFG system, I would say very limited, because content isn't static or permanant.
Dungeons could come about a couple of ways:
A personal dungeon for some reward or achievement a character made. Therefor he recieves a map with a location. This would be an instanced private invite group only.
A general dungeon for any one in the area. A broad cast that announces a landslide that opened some caverns. this would be a noninstanced public group.
Either way, a group starts. So then you post on the message board you are looking for people to help you. The message has a list of people looking for a group. The board could be in the inn or in the town square and should be only interactive with in the same town. A bigger event needing more people could be announced by a NPC town crier in several towns.
As to group limitations I would have to say no also. A dungeon should have a recommended level and and numbered, but not limited to it. If 8 level 7 characters go into a dungeon for 4 level 5's, then they get less loot and XP. The rewards are less. But 4 level 5's go into one for 4 level 7's, they they get more loot and XP. You could have fast travel for the personal dungeon via the map and you should have to actually travel to the public one. But leave group size open.
