I could go on forever. Two extra feats are great. Far better than a single caster level.
Nope. Bad call.
Build the character. It will prove to be a trap for you as you level.
-James
Ok, just to keep it simple lets compare a single caster level for a plain vanilla magus to gaining two feats with a one level dawnflower dervish dip. Ceteris paribus
Lets say the two additional feats I take are 2*Extra Arcane Points.
I lose 1d6 damage with shocking grasp until level 11, when the maximum damage for an intensified SG equalizes.
I gain +2 damage and +2 to hit from battle dance for at least 4 rounds and I can use the arcane pool to enhance the weapon more often.
The dawnflower gets 1 or 2 spells than the plain magus, but with spell recall and extra arcane points I can get more spells. With improved spell recall at level 12 the dawnflower variant with 4 extra arcane points benefits greatly. In addition I get some Cantrips and spells from the Bard spell list.
To sum it up, after level 12 the advantages of the plain magus become negligible, but the versatility of the dawnflower variant stays
The only real disadvantage is that the dawnflower gets higher level spells one level after its counterpart.
But I get 4 more skill points and some useful class skills. If I invest 1 point/skill I get e.g. perception +4, stealth +4, knowledge religion +4, acrobatics +4, resulting in 16 skill points more.
At level 2 the plain magus has 3/0/3 in saves, the dawnflower has 2/2/4. 2 points in saves equals 1 additional feat.
Looks to me that the dawnflower dip is not inferior to a plain magus.
For getting higher level spells one level after the plain magus, the 4 extra arcane points can be applied to recall spells, pump up the weapon or use with some arcanas.
Yes, it is short sighted. And you still didn't say which feats you took.
-James
Since I am toying with the idea of dipping into Dawnflower Bard, too, I like to add some more thoughts.
- I get Dervish dance at level one. So I am more competetive in level 1-2. (1d6 + 4 Dex Bonus + 2 Battle Dance + 1 Arcane Strike) = 1d6+7 Looks good
Useful feat here is Arcane Strike
- At level 2 my saves are 2/2/4 instead of 3/0/3 that means I have 8 points in saves with the dip instead of just 6 points going straight, which equivalents a feat. Especially the higher Wil save is good with my low Wis.
Useful feat here is any feat increasing feat e.g. Iron Will
- If my party lacks in numbers, I can do some jobs the others cannot do, e.g. all knowledge skills are class skills now and I have some more skill points to activate the skills and the intelligence to use them.
I have access to the bard spell list, which has some very good spells in it e.g cure lesser wounds.
Useful feat here would be Breadth of Experience as an Elf
Other useful 2 feat combinations to take:
Extra Arcana - Extra Arcane Points
Spell focus - Spell Specialization (shocking Grasp) ( followed by Greater Spell Specialization later on)
Spell Penetration - Greater Spell Penetration
I could go on forever. Two extra feats are great. Far better than a single caster level.
- If arcane mark doesn't work but cantrips do, close range has its uses. Though keep in mind that by level 7 you probably won't be using it as much (decent number of spells + a large arcane pool + pearls of power = better options to cast each round than cantrips)
YMMV
In this circumstance, could you not use a Cracked Orange Prism to add Touch of Fatigue to your spells prepared.
It would not work with Spellstrike:
At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list
The cracked Orange Prism lets you add one Cantrip to the list of spells known, but that is not identical to your magus spell list, just like you cannot spellstrike with spells from an other spellcasting career (like bard or Sorcerer if you take a level dip.)
You would need the broad study arcana to make it work.
Better to skip close range and take touch of fatigue with the spell blending arcana.
The +5 enhancement limit is only for the to hit/damage bonus.
You can go another +5 with weapon properties plus some other properties wich haven´t any +X in there description.
Granted, stacking with existing enhancements could be possible, but...
quote from the arcane pool description wrote:
At 1st level, a magus can expend 1 point from his arcane pool as a swift action to grant any weapon he is holding a +1 enhancement bonus for 1 minute. For every four levels beyond 1st, the weapon gains another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +5 at 17th level. These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon enhancement to a maximum of +5. Multiple uses of this ability do not stack with themselves.
At 5th level, these bonuses can be used to add any of the following weapon properties: dancing, flaming, flaming burst, frost, icy burst, keen, shock, shocking burst, speed, or vorpal.
Adding these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the property’s base price modifier. These properties are added to any the weapon already has, but duplicates do not stack. If the weapon is not magical, at least a +1 enhancement bonus must be added before any other properties can be added.
So by RAW the maximum enhancement bonus from arcane pool is +5, and you can use them to grant the weapon +5 enhancement, but to add other properties you have to use these bonus points. that means you have to divide between the +x enhancement and the added properties.
Ghost Blade Arcana lets you add the properties ghost touch (price mod. +1) and brilliant energy (price mod. +4) to the others of the list and nothing more.
So brilliant energy needs 4 bonus points to activate and you don´t get that until level 13. so no use of brilliant energy before level 13.
If you do not have an magic weapon (e.g only masterwork enhancement) you must do the enhancing yourself. that means not possible before level 17.
Now imagine you take this arcana at level 9 instead of accurate strike. You have to wait until level 13 to use its full potential. And you better have a magic replacement at hand, because if your weapon breaks, you cannot use this arcana with a nonmagic weapon until level 17.
That is why accurate strike is better and ghost blade is overrated IMHO
Maybe I am wrong but for me it looks like the Arcana Ghost Blade is a trap and does not deserve 3 stars, because brilliant energy property is not coming until level 13 (or level 17 with an unenhanced weapon)
The enhancement bonus needed to activate brilliant energy is +4. You do not get that until level 13 and +1 is needed to activate other properties. So the first time one could use brilliant energy is at level 13 (with an already enhanced weapon). If you do not have a +1 Weapon then you must use the complete +5 Bonus for giving the weapon +1 and brilliant energy (at level 17)
The worst case is if you already bought a +2 weapon. Then you couldn´t use it at all because of the +5 enhancement limit.
That leaves the ghost touch ability. That alone seems to be not enough for 3 stars.
I'm curious on what magus Cantrips, First level spells, and skills you'll pick for your magus.
It's something I haven't gotten to yet for my Magus build.
(Still playing a low level cleric in PFS but the cleric has a couple mods left before being bumped into a higher teir. So planning ahead on what I want to run then.)
The skills for my magus are dependent of the needs of our party. In general with 6 skill Pts.
1 Spellcraft
2 Perception/Use Magic Device, Dex based Skill
1 Cha based skill
1 Fly/swim/climb
1 Knowledge skill
The reasons to go for Dawnflower Dervish Bards are:
- the main selling point: free dervish dance feat means 1d6+4 damage (1d6+8 with arcane strike, battle dance and arcane pool enhancement)at level 1 and it saves me 2 feats.
Oops, slight mistake since I get access to arcane pool at level 2, when I begin my magus career.
So it should read 1d6+7 at level 1 and 1d6+8 at level two. Still better than other Dervish builds at low levels even if I only have 5 rounds of battle dance performance available. I´m toying with the thought of taking the extra performance feat, but I´m afraid it is a trap since the battledance is not going to get better since i´m not taking additional bard levels.
Human with the Dual Talent from APG - Some humans are uniquely skilled at maximizing their natural gifts. These humans pick two ability scores and gain a +2 racial bonus in each of those scores. This racial trait replaces the +2 bonus to any one ability score, the bonus feat, and the skilled traits.
Thank you for your help. Dual Talent sounds great.
How about that:
STR 10
DEX 16 + 2 (10)
CON 14 (5)
INT 15 + 2 (7)
WIS 7 (-4)
CHA 12 (2)
with strengh 10 i get 33 lbs. carrying capacity
Scimitar 3 lbs
leather armor 15 lbs + cats grace (or chain shirt 25 lbs)
handy haversack 5 lbs.
seems to work until i have a chance to grab a strengh item or increase with level 8.
Is it worth it? Maybe in combination with the Prescient Attack Arcana (immediate loss of opponents Dex Bonus)?
I would say no way in heck. Look at the pile of semi-useless requirements. Magi have a tough time taking long feat chains not related to the core magus builds, and this requirement chain would basically wreck the character.
Second, would you really want to dump 4 arcane pool into one hit? There are WAY better ways to spend it.
Yes, the requirements are a mystery to me. Taking the Maximized Spell Arcana is no problem, because i would take that anyway, but what is 'weapon expertise class feature'? I am not sure. RAW makes no sense here. My theory is that the RAI is the weapon proficiency class feature, which would be no problem, because as a magus i´m going to be proficient with a scimitar. If I have to take a useless feat to qualify then i´m with you that it is not worth it. The Arcana costs of 3 points (4 with prescient attack) are expensive, but the Reflection arcana is propably more costly. Still it has its uses.
I think maximizing a spell regardless of the spell level practically at will is huge. A critical maximized Vampiric touch looks nice too.
But i value your input. Since I don´t have the experience to evaluate it I will propably leave it out.
Yes, you are allowed to deliver any touch spell with spellstrike. With regard to comparing it to a quickened shocking grasp, it's d4 vs d6. It won't balance out until level 15+ with regard to its effectiveness vs a quickened shocking grasp.
Yes the nominal damage of forceful strike and shocking grasp equals at magus level 15, but it is force damage, so immunities or damage resistance are no problem. In addition I get a bull rush and i dont have to get the quickened spell metamagic. And I can use it with level 10, a quickened intensified Shocking grasp would have to wait untill level 13.
Lastoth wrote:
Also, let's not underestimate the +3 to hit with shocking grasp. +15% is big at any level.
Sadly my inexperience shows here.
How do i get the +3 Bonus to hit with schocking grasp?
First,I'm still pretty new to Pathfinder so can only sort of help you. I have been ready through the guides and have started playing around with the Magus and can give some points that I think you've messed up on.
Character Stats -
STR: If you're planning on wearing any armor (which you WILL need) a 8 strength just wont be enough. Suggest you switch your CHA with STR. This will hurt your bard class which brings up the next point.
1st level -
If you're planning on going a multi-class, the suggested guide is to grab your first 2 levels in Lore Warden, a archtype of fighter. This will start you out with more health and 3 feats.
Your Questions 1 & 2 I can't really answer.
3. The spell Forceful Strike http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/forceful-strike
Can it be combined with spellstrike? The casting time is a swift action, so it seems better than a quickened first level spell.
With Magus 1st level ability: Spell Combat, why would you need to grab a spell with a swift action casting time?
I think there's probably better spells out there for the Magus. I just haven't researched that far yet.
Thank you for the evaluation.
The reasons to go for Dawnflower Dervish Bards are:
- the main selling point: free dervish dance feat means 1d6+4 damage (1d6+8 with arcane strike, battle dance and arcane pool enhancement)at level 1 and it saves me 2 feats.
- 5 rounds of bardic perfomance per day: battle songs starts as a move action, countersong is circumstancial but niche to have.
- 4 more skill points
- access to bardic class skills (especially perception as a class skill could be useful, Acrobatics, Stealth, escape artist and Sleight of hand are Dex Skills.
- Access to bardic spells, the 4 more cantrips are nice to have and I get two first level spells (propably cure light wounds and charm)
- slight advantage to saves (+2 Reflex and +2 Wil Saves)
And I could as a backup play the role of face or library in our group, if nobody else steps up the plate.
the plan was to get some strengh later on with items or at level 8/12
But i Guess i could dump Wis even further to 7 and get me Str. 10. That way I would still come out 1 Skill point ahead at perception and my Wil saves are not to bad.
Why grab a spell with a swift action? because I can combine spellcombat and a swift action and a 5 feet move. that means I could move 5 feet to the enemyt, Spellstrike and cast a swift spell afterwards. This results at level 16 with 4 attacks (3+haste) + Spell combat Attack intensified shocking grasp (10d6) + swift spellstrike intensified Forceful Strike (15d4). Thats 6*weapon damage + 2*Spell damage. Imagine that the spells crit. and maximize both (from arcana and maximize Spellstrike) and empower 1 Spell(from arcana) that is 300 Points of damage from the spells alone. So with a little luck i do tons of damage and push my opponent out of reach at the end of my turn (if he is still alive).
Hello,
So I wanted to thank you for the magus guide and my first character will be a magus. I am new to pathfinder although I have some years experience with other RPG. Nontheless have i stumbled upon some Questions and maybe you can help me with and evaluation of some things.
2. The spell Force Punch http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/force-punch
Since it is a touch spell and with intensify spell does the same damage as shocking grasp at level 15 and it is force damage and it pushes the target away. I think it deserves more than one star.
