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Viv Voltine wrote:

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

I am interested! I wanna do something that explores the themes of science and faith combining that Iron Gods is built around, but I'm not sure how best to implement it...

Here is how!

Thank you, but I've actually already asked people about that archetype on the Advice Forums and the general consensus seemed to be "DON'T!"

Don't see why. It has no disadvntages. Sure, they're specialized, but this Adventure Path is what they're specialized FOR.

Ambrosia Slaad wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

That comes back to another Star Wars inspiration: Spaghetti Westerns. Ever seen two gunslingers duel? It's pretty much all buildup, then suddenly it's over in a second.

That said, I wouldn't be angry if a monster suddenly turned red (i.e.: gained the Advanced Template) in the middle of a fight if they needed to.

Not What it Looks Like: Your character gains a reputation diametrically opposite of their actual nature/alignment.

How I got it -- Playing Shadowrun, my character is a Sniper, covering the rest of the team on an infiltration mission one rainy day. The team ends up triggering an alarm, causing the Mission "Boss", a tough combat mage who was out at the time, to come racing back.

My character sees him coming down the street on a motorcycle, and decides to buy her team some time. So she takes a shot at him. I get a ridiculous amount of successes, and she hits him right in the throat. He glitches the resulting piloting skill roll(70mph+rain+shot in the throat) and skids underneath a truck, where he cracks his head open on the vehicle's driveshaft. Blood flows down the wet streets. With the Boss suddenly dead, the team takes case of the remaining guards, finishes the run, and we book it.

Surveillance footage of the shot goes viral, with many Shadowrunners saying my character had to have been a cold-blooded killer to make that shot, and used a tranq dart just to show that he/she could.

Yes, I said Tranq dart. My character is a kind of a pacifist, and she almost exclusively uses Tranquilizer, Gel, and Shock rounds unless absolutely necessary(or sufficiently pissed).

So.... who has watched the new Neflix Voltron reboot by Dreamworks and the Avatar guys(producers and animation studio both)?

If not. Do so. Right now.

Das Bier wrote:

Space Voltron is a BUNCH of fighters. Like, a squadron.

It's a group of mostly useless flying lion mecha which combine into a very powerful one.

Not anymore. Have you seen the new series?

So...

Fighters
Sabutai -- Battletech
Vic Viper -- Gradius/Zone of the Enders
R-9 Series -- R-Type
VF-25 -- Macross Frontier

Small Ships
Elsa -- Xenosaga
Mega Rider -- Gundam ZZ
Normandy -- Mass Effect

Capital Ships
Archangel/Minerva -- Mobile Suit Gundam SEED/Destiny
Macross SDF-1/Quarter/Delta -- Macross
Space Battleship Yamato
Hiryu Kai -- Super Robot Wars

I don't want to see alignment as a thing here. I'd rather have an expansion on things like the patriotic weapons and the Unchained bits about things like radiant damage.

Have allegiances and oppositions, not alignment.

In any universe where Good and Evil are actual (meta)physical forces, alignment makes sense.

In worlds like Golarion and those of the Longest-Running RPG, I can hold Good in the form of pure energy in one hand, and Chaos in the other, and my soul resonates harmoniously with them(and then I can hit you with it). That resonance means I am Chaotic Good. I can still think or even act Lawful(or Evil) from time to time, and still remain Chaotic Good. For a while, anyway.

I could elaborate, but this is not the place for it. My point is that this is not the real world, but one where Good, Evil, Law, and Chaos are observable and quantifiable things.

I'm okay with cosmic horror as a concept, but I'd much rather they use it as an inspiration for something new is far preferable to ripping creatures straight from the pages of Lovecraft's stuff, which seems to be the way it always goes. Lovecraft always seems to be afford this sacred untouchable status and fans who incorporate his stuff into their games seem completely unwillingy to adapt it, instead forcing the game world to adapt to Lovecraft, but we don't do this with other source material. We have the Whispering Tyrant instead of any number of actual fictional evil overlords, for example. We don't actually see Sauron in the world, so why is there this need to use Cthulu instead of a Cthulu substitute?

Well, I would counter that with your own statement: We have stats for the Old Ones. Now what is the one unspoken rule of RPGs, the one reason Paizo won't ever make stats for their Gods?

"If it has stats, it can be killed."

Unlike Cosmic Horror stories, in Pathfinder there are benevolent and kind (and often awesome) Gods who love you. The horrible things in the inky black between stars are something you can kill. Instead of despairingly writing in your journal until it comes for you, you can roll your inherent goodness into a ball and smack them in the face with it.

When the stars are right, Cthulhu will rise from the depths... and there will be heroes waiting to pound him right back down.

That is why I kinda do want to see the Dark Tapestry and Dominion of the Black show up in Starfinder. After Ancient wizards, corrupt queens, dark elves, evil genies, Oni warlords, Frozen witches, and Demonic invasions, the time will have finally come for them, long ago horrors lurking in the background, to step up and get their asses kicked.

They don't have to be Colossal or anything (but it would be nice to be able to fight Kaiju face-to-face. But for technology and even some lost magic/magitech, a few giant mecha would be awesome.

Imagine something like the Cybuster:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mh9aVO_cZI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9ey1pfOhNQ

A mech possessed by a powerful elemental spirit. As cool as it may be as a machine/artifact/treasure, it provides some awesome adventure hooks. If magic is lost an mysterious, finding out how the machine is powered is a great way to start an adventure. Or what if, instead of an elemental, it's an Archon, or a Prothean? What if it's an Emperyal Lord or Archdevil? Could it be freed? Is that the best course of action?

How bad could it be? Consider this roughly Emperyal-level being in a sci-fi game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ5dkkSQO6Y

Note how her strongest attack involves her stepping out of her machine first.

Miasma is a poison why are they treating it as a disease?

Because, Doppelganger, Miasma was for a long time considered to be a carrier/causer of disease.

I'm GM-ing RoW, and just happen to be on this part. I am SO pulling these two off on my players!

Insain Dragoon wrote:

edit: I would like to say that no class in the game is more "anime" than a Sorcerer. You get "special powers" that grow and progress with you. You make special secret hand signs while shouting magical words to unleash powerful juts-I mean "spells." You fly and rend reality and logic easily and without remorse.

Sounds a bit like Super-Sentai... >.>

No, that's Synthesist Summoner.

If martials can readily jump higher then their own head, run as fast or faster then a horse, end up with 'blink' movement, and can eventually walk/run on air, or stand on the side or upside down of things, you're pretty much in Anime territory.

Ancient Myths, Legends, and classical Tall Tales did that kinda thing long before Anime existed, you know.

Trogdar wrote:

I guess the point, then, is that if you want to run a game within that sort of context you would need to take magical classes off the table in terms of player character choice.

And this is the core of the problematic argument, assuming you're talking to me. Why is it impossible to have gritty fighters in the same setting as magic-users?

Well, the problem isn't Gritty fighters in the same setting as magic-users, as it is Gritty fighters in the same setting as Heroic magic-users.

In a game system where equality between characters in a party is something sought after, the ratio of Grit to Heroism needs to be even. If wizards are allowed be Heroic, warriors shouldn't be forced to be Gritty.

I think this is the crux of the problem. You can be a gritty magic-user if you like. But with martials, Grit is pretty much your only option. In a system like Rifts/Palladium, where you can literally have a hobo and a demigod on the same team, this is okay. But in systems like 3.P where you're supposed to have at least rough parity between party members, you get complaints.

I'm more approaching this argument from the point of view of a writer than that of a GM, for the record. I really don't like hearing anything to the effect of "Mages, ergo realism is invalid." And while that is hyperbole, it's not dishonest. Nor is it strawmanning (has anybody said that yet? I hope not. Straw men are the nazis of the 2010s). I'm trying to distil the point to show my views on it. That's where I believe it leads, and it's where I believe it's based on.

Not so much "If Mages, then no Realism"; so much as it's "If she can be Lina Inverse, I should be able to be Gaurry Gabriev."

But I do have a ranged weapon! See?

*has feat "Throw Anything"

GM: "I was wondering why you were carrying half a dozen short swords..."

First of all, half the problem with Monkey Grip is a gross misunderstanding of what the feat does. Monkey Grip allows you to use a weapon of one size larger than you with the same effort as if the weapon was sized for you, for a -2 penalty.

The whole "Dual-wielding Greatswords" thing comes from the fact that a Large Longsword has the same damage roll as a Medium Greatsword. There are some problems with that in practice.

The first is RAW. The feat text specifically states that it works with larger weapons. You have to use it with Large Longswords, not Medium Greatswords.

Secondly there's penalty stacking. Even if your character has Two-Weapon Fighting, they're still eating a -6 penalty. If they choose not to burn that feat, it jumps to -8/-12.

And the final reason actually renders all of that moot. The feat text explicitly states that Monkey grip cannot be used with your off hand.

Now, for the actual meat of your question: The answer is Theorycrafting. People read the rules, plug in a few variables, and if they get a number greater than whatever they deem is "fair", go running for the hills. This gets a lot of attention because of the Optimization crowd: people who deliberately try to max out 1-3 numbers for their character(s). Usually sometime later, people put it into practice, and find that it may not be as broken as it seems when the old Random Number God comes into play.

Have you ever had a character you yourself (as a GM or fellow player) wanted to Blast with the Horns of Iomedae's Annoyance?

Are there any plans on doing another AP section or standalone adventure like RoW 4(The Frozen Stars) where the players have the option of choosing sides in a battle or war?

Nachos!

Because shovels are useful. :) seriously, I was just gonna have her burying the dead after searching the wreck

Even a level twenty monk will still take 14-15 rounds to kill them all, even assuming he never misses. Not many players are willing to sit through that for no reason than pointless cruelty(even assuming no alignment(a highly Chaotic act) issues), fewer still would wait on someone else to.

SAMAS wrote:

KingmanHighborn wrote:

Party of Summoner, Rogue (Catfolks), Monk (Human) and Fighter/Inquisitor (Dhamphir) launched an attack on a goblin stronghold, and inside was several bunny rabbits in cages that the goblins used for food and ritual sacrifice (100 to be exact). The monk decided the kill 99 of the bunnies and give the rogue the last one as a pet.

Did you make him actually do it? Because despite the "shockingly callous EVIL" of the act as a concept, that's way too boring for a person to actually do. He'd probably have quit before the 20th grapple check.

Killing and neatly butchering a rabbit takes 20 to 30 minutes with a proper bleedout. Just killing? Thirty seconds to a minute to get the animal positioned properly for cervical dislocation and performing a quick hard jerk. If you didn't care about doing it properly? Less time than that, but you'd probably have to do it to some animals twice. A hard blow angled correctly to the back of the neck right at the occipital condyle will also do the trick and will achieve reliable separation of spine and skull with minimal carcass bruising if done properly. Basically it's internal decapitation when performed correctly, and it is instant and humane.

Also horribly boring and a waste of food to repeat this 99 times. The most I want to process at a sitting is half a dozen, and that's a solid evening of work. Though the killing part is a pretty tiny fraction of it.

If you think killing bunnies is evil, either you're a hardcore PETA vegan or you've never taken the time to think about where your food comes from. It does not grow magically in white styrofoam packages at WalMart.

Note the quotation marks. And that was my point. Killing a rabbit for no reason (as opposed to, say, it's meat or hide) is kinda on the mild, puppy-kicking side of evil. Doing it nearly a hundred times? That's just work. Work you're not getting anything for, at that.

I'm running book 1 of Way of the Wicked...

** spoiler omitted **

Quoth Xanatos: "Revenge is a sucker's game".

Seconding the recommendation of Barakamon. Funny and sweet.

Log Horizon is boring as hell, at least it was the first season - haven't tried s2. The story was decent enough but every single episode was boring all the way through until the last 4-5 minutes in which they had a cliff-hanger. Simply, the show was too darn slow and didn't give us enough good visuals or interesting characters to focus on while it wasted time.

Log Horizon is not an action series per se. It's about a large group of people in a situation trying to (re)build their lives and create a working society.

Well, how about an ARABIC anime? Something designed by a guy who apparently loves the stuff and wanted to make his own (there's also no fanservice):

http://www.barakabits.com/2014/11/meet-man-making-middle-easts-first-ever-a nime

But why robots? Oh dear God, why is it always robots?

Because Giant Robots are awesome.

Also, Grendizer (successor to the legendary Mazinger Z) was a huge hit in the Middle East.

Quote:

Ok, on to the damage capacity rules. This should be quick;

They're pointless. Move on.

Wow, that was easier than I expected. Glad we did this.

What? You want more? Jesus, just take take take.

Ok, fine; Roll your S.D.C. You're a Merc? Great, that's 1d4x10. Wow! A 4! Excellent. Ok, you have 40 S.D.C. What's your P.E.? 22? That's impressive. Roll that 1d6 to add to your total. A 6?! That's awesome, you're a really tough dude. So that's 40 S.D.C. and 28 hit points. Congratulations, seriously.

*whistle*

*clank*

Wilks.jpg

What's that? Oh, that's just a Wilk's laser pistol. Its an extremely low output laser weapon. You just won't find anything weaker on the market, seriously. Old ladies carry these to the Chi-Town bingo parlor to scare off dirty old men and the occasional dog. EVERYBODY has this. Well, at least this. Most have something far, far larger.

It does 1d4x100 S.D.C./Hit Point damage. Per shot. It can do that 20 times before reloading. That's 20 self-cauterizing holes straight through your body that your maximum rolls for S.D.C. and badass faunt of hit points simply can't stop from happening.

This section isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Welcome to Rifts.

I wanna take a second to correct and answer this part.

First of all, a Wilks' 320 laser pistol (which was pictured in that excerpt from the above link) does 1d6 M.D. :)

Second, Rifts runs on Palladium's attempt at a universal system. The whole M.D.C. thing, as I said before, it a factor of the setting. Tech-wise, Rifts is up there with Warhammer 40k and Star Wars, ground wise. Which is closer to the middle than you'd think (See SJ games' Ogre or the Bolos novels for the absurdly high-end stuff).

And third, keep in mind that most civilized areas know the power of MD weaponry and do not allow adventurers and mercenaries to bring that kind of gear into their communities. S.D.C still has its uses in Rifts.

No, Exalted is way sillier than Rifts.

Rifts let's you play as a humpback whale.

Exalted let's you punch someone so hard you turn them into a duck.

Rifts is, like, the third RPG I ever played, and the one I have the most knowledge of, thematically, if not mechanically. So a few things to keep in mind:

Character Creation -- Humans are pretty much the same as in Pathfinder, since they use the old 3d6 roll to generate stats If you get a 16/18, roll another D6 and add it. Physical Strength is obvious, Physical Prowess is Dex, Physical Endurance is Con, IQ is Int, Mental Endurance is Wis, Mental Affinity is Cha. PB(Physical Beauty) is it's own stat. Keep or discard as you wish. Speed is also a stat, not given by size/race.

Like D20/PF, high stats give bonuses, but there a few differences. The first is that bonuses on the Palladium system don't kick in until the score hits 17 or higher.

Psionics are a thing in Rifts right off the bat. You may have a Psychic Character Class, or just get some psionics on top of your regular Class. It's a result of a percentage roll at character creation, or you can just pick a psychic class.

Character Classes are divided into two types: Occupational Character Classes (O.C.Cs.) and Racial Character Classes (R.C.C.).

OCCs are pretty straightforwardly your basic Character Class. Mercenary Soldier, Operator, Ley Line Walker, etc... The "Occupational" part does give it a little more definition than just the standard model. Where Pathfinder came out with Archetypes, and the classic D&D Prestige Classes, OCCs are effectively both, but entirely separate. Your basic soldier is one class, while a soldier who pilots a mech is another, and a soldier who fights for the Coalition States or New German Republic, or the Republic of Japan, etc..., is each their own class.

Racial Character Classes are a mixed bag. In most cases, it's just your race. Your die rolls to determine your stats may be a little different, and you may have some extra abilities or skills, but you can pick your race, then pick your class just like a Human.

Other RCCs, on the other hand, are so different that they count as an OCC in and of themselves. You pick one of those, and it is your Character Class, from beginning to end. There's no real easy way to define it, but for the most part, the more powerful a race is, or the more limited the examples around are, the more likely they are to be a self-contained RCC.

The first thing to know about Character Classes is they are not balanced, and arguably deliberately so. You can literally have a hobo and a demigod on the same party, and both are legal for PCs straight out of the books. Balance in both character class availability and weaponry (more on that later) is left pretty much entirely to the GM.

The second thing you must know is that Palladium O.C.C.s are for the most part front-loaded. You will get 80-100% of your class features right at first level, and level advancement usually just makes them stronger or the character better at using them. Perhaps because of this, they are extremely unfriendly towards multiclassing, even moreso than Pathfinder. If you change Occupational Character Classes, all progression in the old class comes to an immediate halt, and does not improve unless your new class has the same feature/skill (and then only when the new class catches up). On the other hand, there are so many O.C.C.s that you are unlikely to need to change classes.

Skills are done a lot differently. First of all, they are done on a Percentage die, not d20 roll. This is done as a base percentage, which increases per level. At character creation, they usually come in three flavors:

OCC Skills are Skills that come with the Character Class. You have to have them, so here they are. They also tend to have hefty bonuses to the percentages. Like other class features, you tend to get most of them at first level.

Of course, you have a whole lot more skills in Palladium than in Pathfinder.

Damage -- okay, this is a big one. Palladium is pretty much the opposite of Rocket Tag. You have S.D.C. on top of your hit points (basically bonus HP). Of course, Rifts (and Robotech and Splicers) has an additional wrinkle: Mega-Damage Capacity.

MDC is another level of Hit Points combined with Hardness and Damage Reduction, then inverted on top of that. In short, you have to inflict 100 points of normal(SDC) damage to take off a single MDC point, and it goes both ways, so one MD point inflicts 100 points of normal damage each. Within MD parity, stuff tends to have a lot of M.D.C., and even basic body armor rarely goes down in one or two hits from even "anti-armor" weapons.

Why is that? well, you know how in Alien Invasion stories, you see the army shooting at the alien saucers and death bots to no effect? MDC is pretty much a slightly more merciful version of that. It's basically the line between Modern and Sci-Fi tech. As a rule of thumb, if your infantry-level weapons can hurt a modern tank, you're probably Mega-Damage level.

Many people are unhappy with the MDC distinction, as the prevalence of MDC weaponry in Rifts means that you absolutely have to have some kind of armor (or be a naturally Mega-Damage being) to survive combat. You may want to scrap Mega-Damage altogether, or maybe apply it as Damage Resistance. I suggest DR/10 as a reduction.

Once you get past the MDC barrier, however, weapons are pretty straightforward. You can do a 1/1 damage conversion with no problem even if you drop Mega-Damage entirely.

You mean like Dragon Disciple? ^_^

Normally, an Ioun torch cannot be intelligent.

According to those rules, an item with charges which can be spent to eventually run out of magic (like a wand) cannot be made intelligent. Ioun torches are based on the kind of stone that runs out after, say, protecting against 20 spell levels.

The 'torch' part is not a magic item enchantment but a cast spell, and a spell can't be made into an intelligent magic item.

Your only option is to have the kind of Ioun stone that doesn't run out and make that intelligent. This will be a lot more expensive than an Ioun torch.

You can cast continual flame on that if you want. : )

HEY!

LISTEN! Isn't the point of an Ioun Torch that the effect in question has already worn off?

Aucturn protests loss of planet status

Actually, magic may not be ubiquitous on Golarion, but it is common. Reign of Winter #1 has two examples of middle-of-nowhwere one-horse villages with populations of less than two hundred, and notably both have the services of a Cleric, an Adept (or other spellcasting class), and one additional PC class (Alchemist and Ranger, respectively); as well as a descent number of Adventurer-level magic items(just over half a dozen each, including scrolls and potions). That suggests to me that magic use in most places (unless stated otherwise) is considered somewhere around the "Skilled Craftsman" level, where at the very least, basic services are easily available, but nothing real flashy.

Question: What makes you guys think banditry is all that sustainable in Real Life? Sure, there are exceptions, but you notice most of them soon develop into something more substantial, or the authorities put them down when they start becoming a serious threat.

Anyone else have the sudden urge to play an Usa Samurai?

So my main beef is: there's just not enough good ranged weapons to choose from. Not every ranged weapon has to be great, but right now bows are the only good choice that doesn't shoehorn you into a specific build, and that's not enough.

Or a better way of putting it:

You don't (or at least shouldn't) take an optimized build of a specialist archetype just to be good at a weapon. That's what you do when you want to be Amazing at that weapon.

And a recursive one at that.

For those who missed it.

Begone, Monster! You don't belong in this world?

The Tor writer comes across as having the right information, but coming to the wrong conclusion.

Yes, gaming does have diversity issues still. But as Correia pointed out, it's more a matter of still spreading from its base to markets where it is all but unknown (I and most of my coworkers are Black, and I know for a fact that for most of them, the only RPGs they have ever seen are the books I bring to read during breaks and slow periods). Is there racism in the gaming community? Sure, but it's pretty much on the individual (i.e.: "That dude/group is/are a(bunch of) jerk(s)."), unconscious (seriously, we DO need more minority casting in Fantasy and Sci-Fi (let's be honest, the lack of color in the future has some disturbing connotations).) and accidental (more " Sorry, didn't realize that." than "Up yours, N-Word!") levels. That can be safely ignored and/or forgiven. There has been more flak in my experience given to women in gaming (admittedly a problem in and of itself) than African Americans. The diversity issue, as far as I can see, is a problem that has been slowly correcting itself where race is concerned. If we want it fixed faster, there are only two ways to do it.

The first is for us, the minority gamers, to go out and get more minorities into gaming. Granted, this can be a daunting task.

The second, and arguably more effective way, is for gaming companies to actually advertise in venues and publications where minorities can see them. Like I said before, 99+% of the black community has no idea what Pathfinder is, and the barest understanding of D&D. Of course, though it would be more effective, I'm not sure by how much.

Chief among which is the surprisingly large number of people willing to kill you to obtain it for themselves.

Really, you're gonna pull the old "Declare Victory and Run" trick?

Fine, here's the parting shots:

Your position was built on the erroneous position that any character could be a big-time villain without actually earning said position. That, and that only combat gained experience, or that a character could somehow gain experience for a long time without going up a level.

None of that is true (and that's the nicest way I can say that). A level 6 character who somehow defeats a level/CR 15 enemy through wit, guile, or trickery and luck gains the same experience as if they somehow defeated them through combat (and let's be honest, luck). So madam Blood Mistress, even if she somehow managed to attain her position without ever touching a blade or at least being a really, really good liar (which, as repeatedly pointed out, is canonically impossible), would still be around level 19 or so.

Do you not think a, for instance, level 5 expert, could attain influence and power well in excess of that of a level 16 fighter, if she was to singlemindedly chase it? Especially if said character had at least moderately decent base-stats? I think she could.

No, because by the time she obtained it, she would no longer be 5th level.

See, to me at least, being influential does not rely on you being skillful, it relies on you making the right decisions, knowing when to make secure moves, knowing when to gamble, and finally, on you not failing. Should you manage these, I can easily see a low-level character attain power and influence well above that of high-level parties.

I don't believe power comes from levels. Power comes from results.

-Nearyn

And levels come with those results.

I don't know if you've ever looked in a published module or Adventure Path, but they always tell GMs to award experience for things like making deals and solving encounters with words as well as blade and spell. Every contact she makes, every job she sees to completion, every deal she closes, every time her influence grows, she's gaining XP just as if she were killing Kobolds in a cave.

And that's assuming she hasn't had to deal with would-be heroes, angered families of past victims, or rivals trying to usurp her position at any time during her rise to power. Which is bloody unlikely to say the least.

Looking at the recently updated PRD, I'm seeing some things that I thought Paizo has said they weren't planning to do with Pathfinder - Haven't they said they weren't interested in doing cyberpunk or Sci Fi? I'm pretty sure I've seen that in the annual contest rules or something...Our gamemasters don't even want to include the psionics rules, and now we're going to wind up with laser rifles in the standard Pathfinder rules?

orcs VS Space marines?

Orc Space marines?

Sounds a bit too much like Ralph Bakshi's "Wizards" to me...

I've never seen Wizards, but everytime I read this book, I get either a Final Fantasy theme or he old Masters of the Universe theme stuck in my head for at least two hours.

HE-MAN!

Of course. But he's lacking the drive. The thing that makes his story a story is his drive to find his sister. If they suddenly show his sister as an iconic, it undermines that.

It's like giving Batman or Spiderman their families back, or having Yoda successfully assassinate the Emperor, or just having Wildstyle agree to settle down into a happy life with Emmet while Lord Business surrenders the Kragle: it heavily undermines the character created by the events that are part of their history.

Sure, all of those people could still adventure - of course they could -, but the dynamic of everything would be entirely different. The characters would be different. Their drive would be substantially lacking.

Well, now he has to prove to her that his friendship with Lini is not like that. :)

Seriously, this book and the Technology Guide have lit a fire under my brain (I'll be sending the insurance claim later). Thank you for giving us rules for Outer Dragon bloodlines!

Except a lot of the time, the women didn't even get that. Have you ever actually read the old Conan comics? Women were often raped, murdered (sometimes both) and fed to monsters on a fairly regular basis, whether Conan was around or not.

You may think it's cool to be the virgin sacrifice rescued and ravished by the Barbarian hero (and usually never seen again after that. Hmmmm...), but statistically you're more likely to be the dozen or so sacrifices that came before.

Wasnt my analogy, I was just giving my personal preference with the one given. More for the sake of arguement than anything as Im enjoying the conversation and its off topic jumps.

:)

But I guess thats the kicker. Especially in PFS like games, its either all or nothing. That is, if only one person wants pepperoni, the way it works is everyone has to eat it so that one can get pepperoni. Great for the guy/gal that wants peanut butter pepperoni, but but detracts from those that dont.

My understanding, which may be wrong, but especially with Numeria, is that there is a very vocal but very minority group that keeps talking about it, while the majority of fans would rather it and the technology level sort of fade away and not be expanded upon. Thats also a big reason that its taken so long for it to happen (this has been going on since 3.5 days), is that its so much of a love/hate topic.

your analogy is still bad, because your words are still trying to paint one side as a disgusting anomaly that you have to be weird to like.

Fact is, the mixture of Fantasy and Sci-Fi (or just technological) is nothing new. Masters of the Universe, Thundercats, Krull, freakin' Star Wars, Warhammer Fantasy, Warhammer 40K, Final Fantasy, Phantasy Star, Tales series, Shining Force, Vision of Escaflowne, Panzer World Galient..., I think you get the picture.

The existence of new Iconics who don't dress like they are about to give a lap-dance does not take away from those that already exist.

Seoni isn't being replaced, after all, by a new conservative nun iconic. She's just got company, and they don't all dress like her and Sajan.

That said, I am always surprised to flip through my old Monster Manual or Dieties and Demigods and see all those free-range boobies flopping about, on the lamia, succubus, type V demon, Bast, etc.

Perhaps if we ever meet Sajni, Sajan's sister, we'll discover that she dresses *exactly* like her brother, only always seems to have her arm in the way, or some sort of Scenery Censorship going on as a gag.

Not quite, but she's still dressed lightly.

On another note, I'd like to point out that the problem of the Chainmail Bikini isn't of sexiness, but of sexiness over survivability. It's one thing for Seoni or Feiya to be wearing sexy outfits, they're spellcasters who don't wear armor and so can wear whatever the hell they want; and Seelah or Kyra, who wear armor that is supposed to protect them in combat. And to Paizo's credit (or rather, the artist's), their armor is fairly practical. The worst they've done is Imrijka's cleavage window, and that's not that bad, all things considered.

Genre crossovers, unless handled exceptionally well, generally read like bad fanfiction to me. There are some rare exceptions, but generally speaking my first impression of such mashups is not a positive one. They remind me painfully of those web sites where people post stories about Harry Potter having a love triangle with Captain Jack Sparrow and Mr. Spock. There are certainly merits to modular worldbuilding, but my suspension of disbelief suffers considerably when the components appear to be randomly rather than thoughtfully matched.

But those fanfics are bad because the author is simply telling a stroke story about their favorite characters making out. A far cry from stories like Gate: Thus the JSDF Fought There, which actually goes into personal and political effects of a fantasy world invading a modern one (and the modern world invading right back). (NOTE: the story's actually pretty good, if you can get around the author's occasional Right-Wing pontificating)

It might be a really cool idea to imagine tyrannosaurs flying bomber planes, as Calvin and Hobbes pointed out. The problem is that if you don't happen to be five years old, sustaining your suspension of disbelief with these plot elements mashed together becomes a problem very quickly. It's kind of like a peanut butter and pepperoni sandwich. Even if you like peanut butter and you like pepperoni, you either need a really good chef or an exceptionally rarefied and unusual palate to make those things taste good together in the same bite.

Your analogy's a little off. You're giving examples of peanut butter and pepperoni as reasons to not try chocolate.

Just saw that she's supposed to be transgendered. Interesting.

She is? Holy crap, I kept thinking they were just raising her as a boy (like Bridget in the Guilty Gear series). I don't know why I failed to put two and two together like that.

Eidolons have motivations as varied as any Outsider. A hedonistic Eidolon who wants to experience the pleasures of this world/plane of existence and sleeps with their summoner is entirely possible.

And as said before, the problem is the Player.

Auren "Rin" Cloudstrider wrote:

Cranky Dog wrote:

My opinion on genre mixes in Golarion:

If we can have Maasai warriors wandering around with cell phones, or genuine Mongolian yurts with satellite dishes in real life, then stuff like Numeria doesn't even faze me as unbelievable.

Pathfinder is a system where Medieval French Knights Run Around with Renaissance Era Plate Armor, Worship Greek Gods, and Wield Persian scimitars, where a native american shaman clad in hides of beasts of the sahara desert and transform into prehistoric dinosaurs, where modern japanese schoolgirls wield a tokugawa era daisho and wear black kabuki stage hand pajamas, where an old man in robes can demasculate the universe by verbally solving complex mathematics while performing gangster gestures, where an anemic little loligoth can be so skilled at puppetry she can make the gods her servants, where cowboys from the wild west wield firearms from the 17th century, and shoot highly advanced robots with modern rounds, all banding together to fight brain eating space aliens, sentient jello, collossal fire breathing flying reptiles, pale sparkly emo teenagers, and reanimated corpses.

Well, there's always room for jello!

Which is why it's always trying to eat you.