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The infiltration rules from the GMG (pp. 160-163) are a really neat starting point for a raid or heist, but there are only 3 sample obstacles shown (and not very interesting ones at that).

Are there any other places with more sample obstacles? I know we're supposed to design custom obstacles, but there isn't really much to go on from the GMG.


Recruitment is closed.

Tomorrow or the next day I'll send PMs to the players I've invited, once I've gotten some sleep.

Everybody in the thread gave submissions ranging from decent to great, so even if you're not picked you'll be on the shortlist if somebody leaves.


Almonihah wrote:
Oh yeah, I should probably ask if my submission looked good? I *think* I got everything, but it is my first 2e character so I'd be kind of surprised if I didn't miss anything.

Apologies, I should have gotten back to you sooner.

I didn't notice any mechanical issues with it.


Reminder that submissions close at midnight on March 5th.

I'll be sending PMs to the people who get accepted and we can set up the discussion and gameplay threads.


Ah. I should have read up more on the thaumaturgist's crunch


That kineticist is also fine, I don't see any issues with it.

Come to think of it, it's the only character with healing abilities we've had submitted so far.


That seems like a fine background. Sure.


EDIT: should have gone to page 2 before posting; glad you're on top of it


You're right, I goofed.


Clebsch73 wrote:

Character 1 Female Catfolk Swashbuckler

Link fixed.
I've not run a 2E character so let me know if anything looks amiss.

It looks like you took the Hunting Catfolk heritage for the scent and Track bonuses, but the top of your sheet doesn't make that clear.

As for your Reflex save, there's +3 from your Dexterity, +1 from being level 1, and +2 from expert proficiency. Is there an extra +2 I'm missing here? A feat or ancestry feature?


When hero points reset, they reset to a value of 1. Extra hero points above 1 are at GM discretion, requiring significant heroism to earn.


Note on Hero Points:

Hero points are reset by a long rest (minimum 8 hrs, no more than once per 24 hrs).

This is now noted in the Player Intro under House Rules.


I can't seem to open the link.


Keliak names are vaguely Italian, but with slight twists (Zenrico instead of Enrico, Rancisca instead of Francesca).

Cornyrian names are vaguely Germanic (Yuther, Herminn)

Tengu names can be made here


Almonihah wrote:
Oh yeah, any guidelines on names for the different cultures?

Not ATM, but I will be looking at it. Which cultures are you interested in?

Tengu names aren't any different on this setting than for other settings.


If you want to rename it Swamp Diver and replace Plane of Water Lore with Swamp or Wetland Lore, go right ahead.


That's what I meant.


You don't have to be bound by the roll, you can just pick. But if rolling is your bag, sure, I don't see much reason why that character couldn't work.

Is it a normal goblin or Glimmer goblin?


I'm going to rule that the class feature normally requires alchemist's tools, but make an exception for the manufacture of black powder and cartridges for those who received the feature via the Munitions Crafter feat.

The boat to Thalis will have a small alchemist's lab onboard.


Depends on the reagent. To make black powder or fashion it into cartridges, no. You just need saltpeter, a little sulfur or stibnite, and an organic fuel (typically willow charcoal, but powdered sugar or dust from a sawmill could also work), as well as something to mix the components in. A little ceramic bowl, mortar and pestle, and empty leather pouch work fine.

If it's something complicated like a glue bomb (what was in more sane times called a tanglefoot bag), yes, you'd need tools. The adhesive reacts with air, so special tools are needed to make it.

In case the teaser didn't make that clear, you'll be getting a 8gp signing bonus for agreeing to join the expedition, with only one trivial encounter beforehand.

Alchemical ammunition is expensive enough that you won't be regularly using it until alchemist's tools and a lab are reasonable investments.


A mix of premaster and remaster, switching to remaster as more books become available (unless those books stink).

I mean, we have to, right? Alchemists, barbarians, champions and sorcerers are all integral to the world, but won't be available in official remastered form until the 1st of August!


Yes. Every fantasy world needs a "Hic Sunt Dracones" region.

And I guess my comparisons to earth maps weren't very helpful, since the Prime Meridian is completely arbitrary on whatever world you're trying to map and I haven't placed mine yet.

P.S. I added a link to a teaser for the first session to the Campaign Info tab.


The continental map isn't to scale, but a rough guide would be that it represents an area about 2000 miles across. For comparison, the distance from the southernmost tip of Texas to the Canadian border is about 1600 miles.

In Earth terms, it's roughly equivalent (give or take a thousand or so miles in each direction) to the part of the western hemisphere below the equator and out to the international date line.

As far as landmasses not shown on the map, obviously Thalis exists, approximately where Greenland would be on earth. Over in the eastern hemisphere there are other continents, but it has been centuries since regular travel and trade has been possible, so the legends and tales about them may no longer correspond to the present reality.


Just as a note: If you want to contribute to worldbuilding via your backstory or in the game itself, that's fantastic. Every little bit helps.

If you want to invent entire noble houses in, say, Zendani or Rivermeet (where the paragraphs in the Geography primer are literally the entirety of my thought process so far), you can, as long as they don't drastically alter the international political scene. The major players in Eredorn are slightly more developed, but if you want to invent minor houses, guilds, and street gangs from scratch you absolutely can.


Welcome to Zoralon, a world of magic and mystery! With the collapse of the imperial house of Akarna, the world’s greatest empire has fallen under the sway of an enigmatic prophet, while off the coast the Free Isles remain a bastion of independent merchant princes unfettered by creed or crown.
You have been chosen by one such prince to explore Thalis, a perilous and frozen land far to the north, where tales tell of rivers that glitter with diamonds and hills that teem with mithril and gold… …and of monsters, evil, and a deathly frost that swallows all.
You will meet new allies, make new enemies, and discover a dark force that threatens to destroy not only Thalis, but all of Zoralon.

Links are in profile

Hello, everyone! I'll be busy until March 5th, so you'll have until then to submit character concepts. (Multiple character submissions are permitted). I'll then spend a few days going over submissions, ask for clarifications and resubmissions if someone's concept is almost but not quite there, then make the final decisions and start playing, preferably no later than the 15th. I've never PbP GM'd before, so we may have to work out some kinks, but helping you guys tell your stories will be worth it, I promise.

While I'll be too busy to GM until March, I'll be dropping by the thread pretty often, so feel free to ask me anything.

It'll be a fairly standard PbP game, shooting for 4 players, and almost everything in Paizo 2e books is permitted. We'll try counting XP (and doing fast progression for the first three levels before slowing down to normal speed), but I reserve the right to use arbitrary story awards to keep you on track.

The only other house rules I know we'll be using are Deep Backgrounds (though you don't have to use that one if you don't wish to) and Free Archetype. However, since I've never GM'd 2e before, let alone the remaster, and will be using a mix of premaster and remaster content until at least the 1st of August, there may be a need for more. I will endeavor to be as transparent about any of these decisions as I can.

Basic setting information, as well as character creation information and expectations for player behavior can be found in the following links in my profile. The setting info won't be on the test; in fact, its best if you immediately forget everything unrelated to your character so you aren't tempted to metagame.

Your post should consist of two spoilers: one containing your numbered answers to the Player Questionnaire (it's okay to skip any questions you can't or don't want to answer), and another describing your character. (Name & pronouns, ancestry, background, class, build, and a few paragraphs of backstory plus any other information you think I would need).

If you are selected, you'll need to make a token. It's okay if you swipe it off DeviantArt or use AI, I won't judge.

If you have any questions, don't be afraid to ask.

This is supposed to be fun, so don't stress out like these are the LSATs or anything. You don't need to answer all the questions in the questionnaire, they just help me build a better game for you guys.


Anybody have any information on using Google Slides as a battlemap if Foundry doesn't work out?


Excellent idea, I've added the links to my profile


Updated the questionnaire significantly


Swear to god, it doesn't go the way you think it does, but I don't want to give any spoilers.


A teaser for the first session...

The ads had been plastered all over town, particularly by the docks, their professional print and ubiquity trumpeting their backing by serious people with serious money.

“House Dandolon seeking able-bodied crew for survey expedition to far north. Traveling by sail on Hellion’s Cry. Wilderness or nautical experience preferred, combat experience required. 5 gold signing bonus, 500 gold on completion. Leaves: 1-15-870, return expected: late 871. See Captain Ferrino at the Pink Conch, 8pm, 1-9-870”

Each ad had contained a small map pointing to a tavern at the edge of the red-light district, near the catfolk quarter. After sundown, it became a rough part of town, and you had kept a tight grip on your belongings and tried to look fierce as you strode the darkening streets.

After passing well beyond the district’s main hubs of activity (as well as most potential customers), you eventually arrive at a modest two-story wooden building with a wraparound stone patio outfitted with wooden tables designed for outdoor dining. They stand empty, as the only light source for quite a distance is the feeble light emanating from the large glass window, through which you can spy a booth and a few small tables, only one of which is lit.

The occasional yowls off in the distance inform you that you are nearly to catfolk territory, and the design of the building and its distance from any other structure tells you this was clearly once the house of someone who valued their privacy but left when the old shantytown further down the street became home to prowling, yowling Amurri. Whoever thought this would be a good place to open a tavern is utterly incompetent at business.

Upon entering the building, you discover the place to be plain but clean. Seventy feet by forty, the main room hosts a half dozen round dining tables lit by mica chips of everlight occupying the left side of the room, while the right remains largely open space, save for two booths—a large, somewhat lit one along the south wall, and a smaller, barely lit alcove in the southeast corner in which a rough, gruff human man lies sprawled in a stupor upon the cushions. An everlight was obviously once mounted in the ceiling over the right side of the room, but its fixture now lies vacant, leaving the small dance floor in gloom. An oaken bar stretches for twenty feet along the northeast wall beside a side exit, and in the northwest corner two wooden doors lie wreathed in shadow.

The staff consists entirely of women. Anywhere else, they would be stunning beyond compare, but by the standards of the Free Isles they are merely somewhat above average. Their tight clothing and improbable (possibly even alchemically-enhanced) figures make you question if “tavern” is indeed the proper description of the Pink Conch’s business model. One is mopping the floor, another is dusting the tables, two are chatting with each other in low voices across the bar, and the last is standing attentively next to the only sober customers in the room. One is a human male of approximately thirty-five years of age whose choice of hat and air of command indicate he is the Captain Ferrino whom you seek. Scattered around the booth are a small cluster of curious characters you can only assume are fellow would-be crewmen.

[Pink Conch Battlemap, night]

“It’s five after, I reckon that’s the last one,” Captain Ferrino booms out as you round the corner, nodding in your direction. His voice is a sonorous baritone perfect for being heard over howling winds. He turns to the server and smiles. “I’ll have a bowl of potato soup and a mug of dwarven stout.”

He smiles at the server and informs you that her name is Jenissa. He motions you into the booth, and you take a seat as the other respondents place their orders. When she reaches you, you tell her…

[What do you order?]

She nods cheerfully and saunters away, stepping through one of the doors in the corner that presumably lead to the kitchen. The raven-haired member of her crew continues her steady progress with the mop.

Ferrino levels a penetrating gaze on each of you in turn before beginning.

“For hundreds of years, tales have told of a land far to the north where rivers glitter with precious stones and the hills teem with mithril and gold… A land known by the name of Thalis.”

He pauses and smirks.

“I know what you’re thinking: if it were true somebody would have stripped it bare by now. Or my flea-bitten plebeian arse would have at least heard of the damned place by now.”

He leans forward and continues.

“The reason nobody has ever settled the place to plunder it properly is because all who have tried it have died.”

He allows the silence to hang a beat too long before resuming.

“The problem is the virloga. A primitive race of orca-men, they patrol the iceberg-choked waters around Thalis and, with their sharp spears and their shamans’ command of wind and wave, destroy anyone who dares approach.”

The server, together with one of her friends, both struggling to hide their interest in the conversation, return with pewter platters bearing booze. While not cold per se, it is at least cooler than the surrounding room.

“Your food will be ready any minute now,” Jenissa says, and returns to the kitchen with her coworker in tow. Meanwhile, the one with the mop is getting uncomfortably close to the drunkard lying passed out in the alcove.

As they stride off, Captain Ferrino takes an exploratory sip, finds its strength to his liking, and motions the rest of you to your drinks as he resumes his tale.

“So, if these fearsome orca-men chase off or kill anyone who tries to get close, how do we know anything about the interior? Good question! The answer is that once every hundred years, in the months when spring changes to summer, the warriors and shamans of the virlogan people seemed to migrate somewhere. We don’t know where—no one has ever seen it, wherever it is—and they apparently left the females and pups behind, along with a reduced guard that is rarely if ever seen above the surface and which can be bypassed on a small ship.”

He takes another sip.

“This absence lasts for roughly a season, and it just so happens to be the season when the ice at the southern tip of the island is thin enough for wooden ships to brave it. It’s enough time to traverse the coast or even venture inland for brief stints, but never enough to perform a proper survey, let alone dig a proper mine. The creatures were always back by the autumn equinox, and the Evil Ones take whoever was foolish enough to stay. Anyone who hadn’t set off for home by the first day of the ninth month was never heard from again.”

He leaned back, causing the red leather cushions of the booth to squeak.

“Almost everything we know about Thalis comes from the writings of ibn Rashad, sha’ir and chronicler from Abu Samsa, who visited there two hundred years ago and brought back a diamond the size of a child’s fist and a nugget of mithril weighing almost forty pounds. The current sultan, Haddesh, wears crown jewels made from those finds to this very day.”

He pauses for effect, amused by the amazement on your faces.

“Last year, unseasonal cyclones made it too dangerous for anyone to approach the island over the spring or summer. Daredevil explorers the world over despaired as they lost the one chance in their lifetime of striking it rich before the virloga returned.”

Then Ferrino leans forward, a strange expression on his face.

“Except they never did.

He pauses for a solid seven seconds, letting this revelation sink in. As you all lean forward, hanging on his every word, he smiles.

“It’s been over three months, and not only have they not returned, but there’s been no sign of any of them. No reserves, no females, no pups.”

“This presents an unbelievable opportunity, if things are what they seem. Mithril is much, much stronger per unit weight than almost any other metal, so siege cannons casted from it could withstand powder loads and grain sizes no other metal can match. Of course, no one has ever collected enough mithril in one place to cast an entire siege cannon from it before, let alone a fleet of them. If House Dandolon could do so, the Forgewrights could craft weapons capable of punching through the walls of Nendasta like a hot knife through butter. Those bastards would never think of attacking us then.”

The mere mention of the rival island’s capital city makes Perrino’s lip curl in distaste.

“Of course, that’s putting the cart before the horse. The best diviners at the Scrivener’s Collegium have been investigating for weeks, and although we can’t be sure where the virloga are, we know they’re gone and have no indications that they will return.”

“Now, I’m sure that anybody who could walk the streets when the Thief Takers are out and about and not get mugged is either very tough or very lucky, both of which would serve us well if we were to employ you. However, out of operational concerns, I will need to know which is which before I hire you. So, starting on the left and going clockwise, I want each of you to tell me your name and explain why you think you’re qualified to come… on… the…”

As he was speaking, the raven-haired girl had finally run out of floor not blocked by the drunkard, and had reluctantly tapped him awake. A muffled back and forth carried on for several seconds until the server drew herself up and said haughtily, “Vanira isn’t working tonight, and I don’t do that sort of thing.” As Perrino trailed off, she turned around and made to leave. Angered, the drunk staggers to his feet and grabs her around the waist, causing her to shriek…

To be continued...


Philo Pharynx wrote:
With the questions about day and time, are you thinking of realtiming this? I'm pretty busy with six games every two weeks, weekly movies night, a full-time job, and caretaking my elderly mother.

I haven't decided yet. I'm leaning towards it at least for combat encounters simply because that's the only way I could integrate Foundry (short of leaving my computer open for the entire week), which I'm leaning towards because there isn't really any way to do fog of war or lighting on Google Slides.

Plus when people have all week to take their turns they tend to become superhumanly savvy tacticians for some reason.

But if I have to drop it to find enough players, I'll drop it. We'll see how the recruitment thread goes. And for noncombat scenes that take place on the boards I could care less regardless, as long as nobody is feeling left out due to spotlight hogging.


Is there anything about this player questionnaire that's unclear, confusing, or otherwise inappropriate?

And more importantly, is there anything missing that anyone thinks I should add?


Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
I guess I’m curious what it is about any extant campaign world that is already designed with adventures, and for adventures to easily slot into that makes all this necessary?

I just realized I never answered this question.

A big reason I'm doing this rather than use Golarion is because the effort required to create a world from scratch causes it to stick in your brain the way someone else's world never really does. When I have an idea, I not only immediately know which Google Doc to go to, but which obscure paragraphs in other docs now need to be changed to update everything and keep the canon straight.


Phlynn wrote:

Quite interesting. Any idea when you'll start recruiting?

I'll need to finalize the player questionnaire first, as well as finish writing the outline for the campaign, which I've kept deliberately vague to leave room for improvising off the character backstories.

There's no firm deadline, but I'd be surprised if the game wasn't fully up and running by spring.


Philo Pharynx wrote:

My character muse approves of your world. In a surprisingly quick turn, she came up with a stowaway leshy psychic.

** spoiler omitted **...

Quite interesting. Hold onto that one for when I post the actual recruitment thread.


A bit more detail on Karadol


The god Akarna initially supported Marathris's attempts to resurrect their father with arcane magic, and was the last of the First Ones to see the danger and bring his followers to safety. He blamed Himself exceedingly for the resulting cataclysm and proscribed arcane magic heavily in His Law of Justice.

While arcane magic is considered taboo in most nations where the First Ones are worshipped (and thus among most nations of the common races), heavy state repression is an Akarnennian trait, though the elven and dwarven nations take the taboo seriously enough to exile those who practice it.

Note that this prohibition does not apply to elementalist wizards and magi (who draw on the energies of the elemental planes rather than those used by Marathris), or sorcerers other than draconic or imperial sorcerers.

Bards, druids, kineticists, thaumaturgists, and even witches are accepted as part of the natural order, and wizards often attempt to disguise themselves as one of these other classes.

Summoners whose eidolon grants arcane spells (construct and dragon eidolons) are also unaffected, because the energy is mediated by an external power and thus qualitatively different from the energies Marathris attempted to use.

Obviously, though, being a demon or devil summoner raises eyebrows anywhere but Karadol, and it would be foolish to venture into the Akarnennian heartlands until you became powerful enough to repel the local constabulary.


Some info on Eredorn, including some organizations. I haven't finished the map yet, but when I've made progress on that I'll add a rundown of the districts.


Good catches. The hobgoblins are driven off in a strategic defeat that hobbles them beyond the point where they could mount another such assault, at least until the present. But they were not utterly destroyed, and the process of corruption that afflicted Karadol begins at that point but takes another decade to reach full flower.

But yes, goblinoids only entered the world within the last 250 years, meaning that many elves and a few very old dwarves remember a time before them, though to humans and halflings they seem to have been around forever and a day.


Well, $#!7, it looks like I can't edit the OP to add links anymore...

Timeline.

Is this helpful?


I'm a fan of Troma movies, so making a subrace of leshy that is the product of goblins' alchemical waste was a no-brainer.

And the "are the cat people cat-faced or people-faced" debate was settled with "¿por que no los dos?"


I'm not wedded to using Foundry. I may have spent money on it, but I'm also aware of the sunk cost fallacy. If there's a simpler way to do combat that isn't pure Theater of the Mind (which tends to either shortchange or overpower rogues and battlefield control casters) I'm open to it.

If players want to contribute to worldbuilding, that's fantastic. Every little bit helps.

If they want to invent entire noble houses in, say, Zendani or Rivermeet (where the paragraphs you just read are literally the entirety of my thought process so far), they can, as long as they don't drastically alter the international political scene. The major players in Eredorn are more developed, but if they want to invent minor houses, guilds, and street gangs from scratch they absolutely can.

The main reason I'm not using Golarion is because there's no way for one person to be conversant with EVERY piece of official media regarding it, and I would never be able to shake the feeling of "doing it wrong" by, say, inventing demon lords or countries in Casmaron from scratch. I'd be second-guessing every decision and going back to the wiki every single session instead of just playing the game.

Thanks for your other suggestions. I suppose a brief précis of the starting city for session 0 would be in order. The first session was intended to be a meetup with the ship captain in a tavern, who would explain the mission and the PCs roles.

And a potted history isn't a bad idea, either.


Welcome to Zoralon, a world of magic and mystery! With the fall of the imperial house, the world’s greatest empire has fallen under the sway of an enigmatic prophet, while off the coast the Free Isles remain a bastion of independent merchant princes unfettered by creed or crown.
You have been chosen by one such prince to explore Thalis, a perilous and frozen land far to the north, where tales tell of rivers that glitter with diamonds and hills that teem with mithril and gold… …and of monsters, evil, and a deathly frost that swallows all.
You will meet new allies, make new enemies, and discover a dark force that threatens to destroy not only Thalis, but all of Zoralon.

So I've been thinking of starting an online campaign for PF2e (combat on Foundry VTT, noncombat on the boards) and tried my hand at a custom setting. The goal was for it to be close enough in tone and style to Golarion that every class and (almost) every archetype could find a natural home, but not simply be a predictable Find-Replace job. It also had to be something one person could maintain.

I've got some ideas for where the campaign could go, but I don't want to fall into the trap of writing the players out of the story or putting tons of development into things they will never see, so they're still tentative at this point.

The general outline is a scouting mission to a hyperborean continent taken on behalf of a merchant house with ties to the government, with the other continent having a strong viking and fey theme while the merchant houses possess an early Renaissance Italy feel to them (I'd tell more, but I don't want to spoil anything).

I'd like to know if anyone is interested in the setting, as well as which parts of the setting seem like they'd be fun to adventure in and therefore worth developing more.

And if there's anything confusing about the setting, please let me know so I can fix the documents before we go live!

Continental Map (not to scale; represents about a quarter of the globe)
Local Map (of campaign start area)
Player introduction (Character creation information and basic setting assumptions)

Geography (brief primers on the regions depicted on the map, a la PC1 pgs 31-34)
Deities (note that demigods and demon lords aren't listed here to help avoid spoilers).
Languages
The Planes (very brief primer)
Ancestries
Classes


So I set about creating a custom setting for PF2e, drew a rudimentary map, and wrote some documents, and I'd like some feedback on whether they actually give players what they would need to make characters and are written in a way where they can understand the setting, if there are any changes you'd recommend, and what parts of the setting struck you as interesting.

I'm open to critiques of the setting itself as well as of document readability, obviously. I haven't started the recruitment thread, so nothing is set in stone yet.

The world was designed to map well enough onto standard PF2e setting assumptions that every class and (almost) every archetype, pre- and post- remaster, could find a niche, and that players used to Golarion wouldn't feel lost as long as I kept the custom names for familiar things (Nuralon for Netherworld, Zokai for hobgoblin) to a minimum and introduced them slowly.

Continental Map (not to scale; represents about a quarter of the globe)
Local Map (of campaign start area)
Player introduction (Character creation information and basic setting assumptions)

Geography (brief primers on the regions depicted on the map, a la PC1 pgs 31-34)
Deities
Languages
The Planes (very brief primer)
Ancestries
Classes
Game info (posting schedule, expectations, etc.)


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I understand that the point of level-based RPGs is that going up in level allows you to face more interesting and dangerous enemies, so wasting interesting monster concepts on level -1 and 0 stat blocks can be a feelsbadman.jpg moment for devs (especially when you can take a level 1 mob and knock it down a peg with the weak template if you're so inclined).

But if you want to create 2- or 4-monster encounters for level 1 characters, and want to do it by grabbing monsters right out of the book without making your own (perhaps the players did something completely unexpected and you have to wing it), you're pretty limited.

Bestiary 1, 2, and 3 have 33 level -1 and 27 level 0 creatures between them (including monsters like the blue-ringed octopus that are pretty... niche), while bestiary 1 alone has 50 level 1 creatures, almost as many as both of the other levels' monsters combined for all three books.

If the monster core is still in development, maybe we could get some more micro-monsters for characters just starting out to fight?

And if it's already off to the printers, maybe Monster Core 2 could have some?


Conversely, how much information is too much information? Players will read a 250-page book by Paizo because they know thousands of other people will read that same book, which can't be said about a home game.


So I'm making a custom setting and campaign for PF 2e intended for PbP. I've GM'd PF 1e in-person games, and am familiar with the 2e rules, but have never GM'd a PbP game or ran a game with a custom setting before. I've got 4-5 pages of notes and a rough draft of a world map. Before writing more, and possibly falling into the trap of writing about things the players will never see or care about, I decided to come here.

What would you as a player need to know before making characters for a custom setting PbP 2e game?


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Blind creatures operating by blindsight are immune to visual illusions like veil. They might be fooled by the 7th-level version's ability to alter your voice and scent, but it doesn't affect the way (for example) a destrachan's echolocation bounces off you, giving away discrepancies in height and facial structure.

Now, blindsight obviously doesn't pierce polymorph effects, but veil is the only spell or magic item I can find that permits impersonation of specific individuals.


My main complaint, I guess, is that a disguise consists of two parts: craftsmanship and persona. When a disguise is pierced due to a failure of craftsmanship (makeup, prosthetics, etc.), it's anticlimactic and sometimes even slightly humorous (a fake mustache drooping, for example). When a disguise is pierced due to a failure of the persona (the impersonator doing something their target never would, or not knowing something their target could ever plausibly forget), it adds far more drama.

A high-level spell or item should be able to remove the possibility of failure due to bad craftsmanship, but a failure due to persona mismatch is always going to remain a possibility. After all, they are logically two different people (or it wouldn't be a disguise at all), so there must be some difference between the two that could theoretically be uncovered.

Ferreting out a shapeshifter is more narratively engaging as a logic puzzle than simply grabbing his face to check for cheek pads or testing his mustache to see if it comes off.


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My complaint isn't that "Oh no, the Deception skill is useful," or "Oh no, spell casters have to reach high levels to acquire their best abilities." Those are good things, and I'm okay with that.

My issue is that there doesn't seem to be any way to magically impersonate another individual in a way that fools touch and blindsight, even with extremely-late-game spells like shapechange.

The non-magical components of a magically augmented disguise aren't going to stand up to a physical search.

Arguably the Alter Ego archetype's Change of Face feat permits magical impersonation by providing a supernatural alternative to a disguise kit, but I can't seem to find anything else that isn't ancestry-locked, and two feats plus being trained in Stealth is quite an investment.

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