Silver Dragon

P33J's page

RPG Superstar 6 Season Dedicated Voter, 7 Season Star Voter. Organized Play Member. 1,611 posts (2,968 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 15 Organized Play characters. 8 aliases.

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Silver Crusade

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shroudb wrote:

have you been into an armored fight exhibition?

the guys wearing combat armor there (which waits quite similar to how pf has weighted heavy armors) were doing tumbles! in them.

To paraphrase you earlier and all the detractors, they have feats to spare, if you want to be tumbling in full plate, put the skill points and feats into it.

I agree that it makes more "fightery" sense, to put the skills in acrobatics, swim, ride and climb, but that doesn't solve the issue that once combat is over, the Fighter's character goes and gets the snacks for everyone, while the Bard, Wizard, and Cleric (cause no one plays rogues anyways) are doing the out of combat stuff.

The other issue is, when's the last time you needed a swim, ride or climb check past 5th level? Hell, with Mobility and spring attack, you don't even need Acrobatics, you just move attack and move again.

The Wizard casts communal fly, or spiderwalk or life bubble and all your swim, ride, and climb checks are done. Or the Paladin, casts Litany of Sloth and goes where he wants anyways.

The thing is, they're never going to nerf the wizard/wizard so that he can't cast the party's way past the simple obstacles while barely using a resource, so it makes all the "fightery skills" worthless past 5.

So that means, there's less places for a fighter to shine while swinging a sword (and compared to a barbarian, a Ranger with Instant enemy, or a CODzilla he's not really shining there anymore either). So what do we do, we find ways for him to be a part of the party outside of combat.

I play Fighters, I have a level 16 PFS fighter that's gone through eyes and done the Adventure Paths for credit. You know what my biggest complaint is? If we're not fighting, I'm barely relevant. And I didn't dump a stat, my Charisma, and INT were both 10s and are now 12s, at the expense of my STR, DEX and CON. I put ranks in Sense Motive and Intimidate. At my best, I can tell a guy's lying.


Silver Crusade

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shroudb wrote:
I don't agree with that because I don't think that those social skills reflect what an average fighter is. But with my proposition he will have free skill points to spend on them if a fighter wants.

Here is the crux. And perhaps I'm giving him the boon too soon at level 8, but once a fighter hits Level 12, he's no longer average, he's a hero. Your average fighter gets killed off or retires at level 3 or 4. But the fighter that survives to level 8, 9, 10 and higher, he's not just some nameless, faceless meat-shield.

Think of it in terms of Kingmaker. At level 4, a Fighter in a Kingmaker campaign will become a leader of a community, typically a general, marshall, etc. This guy has sway, he has pull, people respect him. In short, he is renowned.

The small folk know him. They either fear him or they love him. However, as it plays now, an 8th Level fighter needs to roll about a 20 on the dice during a diplomacy roll to persuade someone to do something for him — he has a 5% chance of convincing the people who likely know his name and respect him.

The nobles know him and chances are they want to find a way to keep him on their good side. He should have some pull with them.

Villains know him, and they want to escape his notice.

A Fighter should be able to use this "renown" to intimidate his foes, to encourage cooperation with potential allies and to bluff his way past fights with those who really don't want to fight him.

But at the end of the day, none of these suggestions are going to make Unchained. The devs have their own ideas and I'm sure they'll be cool, but this is what I would do if I was a dev.

Silver Crusade

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I wrote a brief outline of what I thought above, but in all honesty, the fighter is broken. It's great for 5 levels, then you can't really do much of anything but soak up damage and occasionally hit non-flying things.

If you want to fix the fighter, imho, you need to think about him in terms of what he is, a cagey warrior who despite not having superpowers finds a way to thrive in a world field with magic and gods.

You start by increasing his HP.

I know this is holy Barbarian ground, but there are no sacred cows here.
Bold indicates something new.

Fighter HD = 1d12. The barbarian is still going to get the advantage due to Rage and Raging Vitality, but lets give the fighter the edge over Rangers, Paladins, Bloodragers and Slayers for now.

Skills and Class Skills: 4+INT, Sense Motive, Perception, Knowledge Local and Knowledge Nobility are now Class skills for the Fighter.

Level 1: Bonus Feat. He's still the Fighter we know and love and this prevents him from being dip, by not overwhelming him upfront with powers.

Level 2: Bonus Feat and Fighter's Resolve.
Fighter's Resolve: 1/4 Fighter Level (min 1) + CON uses per day. 3 Ways to use.

Shake it Off: By spending a use of Resolve, a fighter can roll twice for a Fort or Will Save. He may spend an additional use of Resolve to add his CON to his roll.

Ferocity: By spending a use of Resolve, a fighter gains Ferocity for 1 round.

Power Through: The Fighter may spend a point of resolve to remove the Fatigued, Shaken, or Sickened conditions from himself as a swift action. At Level 10 he can remove the Exhausted, Frightened, and Nauseated.

Level 3: Armor Training 1- No Change

Level 4: Bonus Feat and Spellkiller
Spell-killer At Level 4 a Fighter uses his experience fighting with and against magic users to improve his effectiveness against them. As an immediate action, a fighter may make an opposed roll against a caster's Defensive Casting roll. If the Fighter beats the Caster, he gets an Attack of Opportunity. If he fails, he takes a -2 Penalty to his saves until the start of his next turn. A At Level 12, the Fighter gains the step up feat for free and can use his Spellkiller check to time his step up so that he enters the caster's square as he teleports/dimension doors and travels with the caster. Level 20, the Fighter adds half his level to his Spellkiller checks.

Notes: Some people I've presented this too, have thought it was overpowered. But I argue that causes a fighter to spend skill points on Sense Motive if he wants to use it effectively (giving him greater out of combat versatility) and that it wouldn't be useful against quickened spells, which would force Casters to plan around fighters (GASP ROLE REVERSAL!)

Level 5: Weapon Training 1
Weapon Training 1 Is nearly identical to Weapon Training 1 from the CRB, except that it allows fighters to use weapon specific feats for all weapons in his Training Group.

Level 6: Bonus Feat

Level 7: Armor Training 2
Armor Training 2 Normal Armor Training, but with the addition of Light Fortification (25%) when wearing Medium or Heavy Armor.

Level 8: Bonus Feat

Level 9: Weapon Training 2
Weapon Training 2 Is essentially the same, except that the new weapon group gets the same treatment as the first group. So +2/+2 to both weapon Groups. All feats apply.

Level 10: Bonus Feat

Level 11: Armor Training 3
Armor Training 3 Same regular benefits, but a Fighter also gets to add his Armor and Shield enhancement bonus to their Touch AC. He also gains Fortification (50%)

Level 12: Bonus Feat

Level 13: Weapon Training 3
Weapon Training 3 Same as WT 1 and 2, but now we're adding the ability to ignore the first 5 points of DR when using any weapon training group the Fighter has chosen.

Level 14: Bonus Feat

Level 15: Armor Training 4
Armor Training 4: Same as normal, but Enhancement bonus is now added as DR and fighter gains Greater Fortification (75%).

Level 16: Bonus Feat

Level 17: Weapon Training 4
b]Weapon Training 4[/b]: Same as 1, 2 and 3, but now you can ignore the first 10 points of DR.

Level 18: Bonus Feat

Level 19: Armored Colossus
b]Armored Colossus[/b]: New name for Armor master, and for good reason. The fighter doubles his Enhancement bonus, which doubles the bonus to Touch and DR. And he is immune to Critical/Precision damage when wearing Medium or Heavy Armor. Additionally, the Fighter has no ACP or Dex limits to his armor.

Level 20: Bonus Feat & Weapon Master
Weapon Master: The Fighter is proficient with all weapons and applies all of his feats and Weapon Training bonuses to any weapon he holds. In addition, he cannot be disarmed while holding a weapon, he auto-confirms all criticals, he deals maximum damage any time he hits, he doesn't auto-miss on a natural 1, and the crit mod of the weapon he holds immediately increases by 1.

Is this op? Maybe, but I'd rather start out too strong and get it whittled down, then start out so weak and never get anything back.

Silver Crusade

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I've posted about this before, and I may have even posted in this thread, but here's what I think the Fighter should do.

Armor/Shields: Armor Training 1 and 2 are fine, everything after sucks. Armor Training 3 should allow you to add your Armor Enhancement bonus to your Touch AC. Armor Training 4 should allow you to apply your Armor Enhancement as a DR/-. Armor Mastery should allow you to double both of those bonuses and give you Fortification 50%. So that at level 19 a Fighter gets +10 to his touch, DR 10/-, and Fortification 50%, if he's maxed out his armor bonus.

Bravery: Sucks all the way. Change it to Samurai's resolve, make the pool based on Fighter's CON.

NEW FEATURE: Fighter's Renown: Pick one CHA based skill, add 1/2 Fighter Level to those checks.

Weapon Training: Fine, but lets add that all Weapon Focus, Weapon Spec. and Improved Crit feats apply to every weapon in your training groups.

At 4, 8, 12, and 16 let's give Fighters a NEW FEATURE- Spellkiller - A Fighter spends his life fighting with and against creatures that have the uncanny ability to twist reality to their whim. Against all odds they persevere, and pick up a few tricks along the way. At level 4 a fighter may roll Sense Motive against a caster attempting to cast defensively. If their Sense Motive beats the Caster's Defensive Casting, they may attempt an AoO. At level 8, they gain the step up feat. At Level 12, they add 1/2 fighter level to their sense motive checks when using Spellkiller. At 16, they can take a -5 penalty to hit, for the ability for their damage to linger for a round and force a concentration check for any caster they strike to cast a spell.

Let's give fighters 4+INT skill points, make perception, Know Local and Know Nobility class skills

Silver Crusade

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So I've tried to run this before, but my son was born about the time we got going good and I disappeared, we tried to get it started back up but everyone lost the script. If you were a part of that group and you apply, you're in — but please create new characters.

For those who weren't, here's what I ask as a GM

Create 3 influential NPCs from your backstory. Along with 1 sentence on why they were important. I prefer one to be a source of conflict, one to be a friend/loved one and one to be anything of your choice - a mentor, a rival, a lover etc.

Give 3 moments of personal development for your character. A sentence or two as to how that shaped you. Perhaps a moment of loss, triumph, frustration, joy or sorrow.

Give me what motivates your character in a word: Ambition, Greed, Revenge, Wanderlust, etc. Then give me one sentence as to why that motivates your character.

Give me what class you want to play - If it's PFS legal, you can play it, except the new Occult stuff, sorry, I don't have time to learn those rules. What race you want to play. The relative age of your character, young adult, adult, middle aged, Old.

3 Sentences or less describing what your character looks like.

And last, where your character is from and what social status they're from.

At most I hope you don't have to write more than 15 sentences to apply. I know it's a pain to write these long drawn out backstories only not to get chosen. Try to write most of it, like you would write your in character posts, for example, when describing your rival, it could be inner monologue.

James Malor, I hoped the last time I saw that sneering scowl of his was when the Town Guards dragged him off to the stockade once I revealed his role in my father's death.

That's enough, it gives me some freedom to create and gives you freedom to shape your backstory as you play.

As for stated out character blocks, we'll do that once you get selected.

I'll take 4 maybe 5. If you don't get selected, I'm sorry. It's no reflection on you, I might have just had an easier time thinking of hooks for someone else.

I'll make my decision by Noon U.S. Central Time, Tuesday.

Silver Crusade

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Alexander Augunas wrote:

Here is an important clause to note that will likely ruin the OP's day.

In the Advanced Class Guide, on Page 8, we get the following paragraph:

Parent Classes: Each one of the following classes lists two classes that it draws upon to form the basis of its theme. While a character can multiclass with these parent classes, this usually results in redundant abilities. Such abilities don't stack unless specified. If a class feature allows the character to make a one-time choice (such as a bloodline), that choice must match similar choices by the parent classes and vice versa (such as selecting the same bloodline).

Although the monk is not listed as a parent class to the warpriest, one can argue that the "point" of the sacred fist is to swap the fighter parent aspect of the warpriest for a monk parent.

For this reason, these "redundant" abilities (namely flurry of blows) likely don't stack because each flurry modifies something else. The monk's alters the monk's BAB while the warpriest's alters the warpriest's BAB. So if you use the monk's flurry of blows (a full-round action), you don't get to alter your warpriest BAB and vice versa because nowhere in either ability does it say that these abilities stack.

That said, we'll have to wait for some official FAQs from the design time before we get anything official.

Except it isn't a Monk parent class RAW. RAI, I totally agree with you and in my home game I'd have to think about this long and hard, but for PFS, he gets the double dip.

Silver Crusade

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-22 Minutes!

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An ode to Cuddles

When is a hug,
More than a hug.
When that hug, takes the life of a thug.

When it can make.
Casters' bones break.
Saving the life, their spell would take.

A hug with ki
Not a hug for me.
So let's never get cuddly.

Silver Crusade

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Did I miss anyone lamenting the Unkillable Tiefling Paladin?

I mean seriously, that build alone makes me want to run a level 1 adventure to get my Tiefling Paladin (Demon Spawn) build ready.


Silver Crusade

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kyrt-ryder wrote:
Indeed, if the Designer's Opinion carried any real weight, the Titan Mauler would actually get to wield weapons larger than his size allows.

Shots fired!

Sovereign Court

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Male Human War Priest of Iomedae HP 19/31 AC 15 T 0 FF 15, F +5 R +1 W +8, Init +1, Perception +9, Fervor 3/6

BTW Saki, love how you played your Paladin there :D.

Silver Crusade

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So my very first Pathfinder Roleplay character was a Barbarian known affectionately as Rom the Wine-soaked.

Rom was terrified of water, so much so, that he refused to bath, and would instead spend several hundred gold a year purchasing wine to wash away the gore, dirt and other gunk he would collect on his adventures.

To RP this out properly, my GM allowed me to design a mechanic, where to enter water or get on a boat, Rom would either need to be knocked out, make a Will save or he would enter an Confused/Rage state.

In a quest, we encountered a sheet of ice, that we needed to cross in order to fight continue our exploration of the cave. Rom would not cross the ice. When pressed his response was:

"Ice is sneaky water."

Silver Crusade

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I like the Destoryed condition, this is when players go so Meta that there's no more point in trying to continue the narrative.

Silver Crusade

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I wasn't suggesting it as a fix, it was my way of building empathy for people who say fighters don't need to have the feat chain progression fixed.

Silver Crusade

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Ascalaphus wrote:

Exactly, it sucks. Now imagine doing that without powers that bend the laws of reality.

Silver Crusade

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Imagine we did this to a Wizard or Caster, and maybe something will click in those who say "oh, but a fighter gets them every level":

Spells have prerequisites.

Want to cast Fireball? You must have taken Burning Hands.

Want to cast Summon Monster IV? You need to have taken Summon Monster I, II & III; and a Charisma of 13, to apply the appropriate strength of personality over it.

Black Tentacles? You need to have taken Web and the Tentacles CMB is based on your STR.

Now, we do all that, and we put a hard limit on how many spells you can have in your book per level, because fighter's don't get to carry around a book that lets them change feats every day (well there is a magic item for 7500g that lets them, but it's only 1 feat).

Now, the Wizards aren't going to be real thrilled about this, and rightfully so, it's asking too much of their character, it's forcing them to be focused on a spell chain to get that one spell they really want.

Guess what, Fighter's have to do that all the time, but instead of fixing it, we get told "you have so many feats".

Silver Crusade

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Hi All,

This game is part of the Official Pathfinder Society PbP Game Day. For more information please visit:

With PBP Game Day 2 Starting in just under a month I'm doing some recruitment for "The Night March of Kalkamedes"

A veteran Pathfinder exploring the Fenwall Mountains of Varisia has begun sleepwalking, traveling through the dead of night in the same direction each time. The following mornings, however, he awakens injured and lost in the wilderness, never reaching the mysterious destination that drew him from his bed in the night. Something is calling Kalkamedes, something powerful, but unless he can make it safely to the source of his somnambulism, that power will remain a mystery. It falls to a team of Pathfinders to escort the sleepwalker to his destination and uncover the true nature of the strange phenomenon overtaking Kalkamedes's dreams.

It's a highly regarded and fun to play Scenario for Levels 1-5 with fun combats, smart puzzles and some intriguing Roleplaying opportunities.

I'm going to accept the first 5 players who post interest in playing.

Looking forward to it, hope you are too!

Silver Crusade Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7

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I didn't get to vote as much as I did last year, and so I only saw about 4 of the Top 32, that said; I loved these gloves, so simple, so smart.

And the name was what really sold it for me. Quicksilver being the alchemical name for Mercury, the First Metal and connected to Mercury the God of Speed, it just telegraphed in a good way what this item was going to be about.

Could you have made it a bit flashier? Yeah, but I still liked it.

Good luck.

Silver Crusade Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7

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And I just saw remixes of Pearls of Power and Necklace of Fireballs.

Silver Crusade Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7

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thunderspirit wrote:

Alliteration always adds an additional air of awesome.

Silver Crusade Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7

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I personally give bonus points to gloves, boots, bracers and cloaks. If you do a good item that I like in that design space, you're competing with some really strong existing items.

Why do I want to take your boots of rocket feet over my boots of Speed? Why should I take your gloves of door unlocking when I could have gloves of dueling?

Slotless items are easy, item slots that don't have a standard item are easier, why? Because you're not trying to get someone to make a different choice than the one that seems likely.

Silver Crusade

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Thank you all for your responses and your creativity.

As I said, I decided to go with 5 and I created a shortlist this weekend of 8. Below are the 5 I've chosen and under them the 3 alternates, who will have first short if one of the 5 decide they can't play or if we have a drop out during the game. After those 8, the rest of you are the next set of having the first shot at a spot if people drop out of the game. So if you ever see me posting, needing replacements, you're guaranteed in, if you're the first one from this group to respond.

So enough hemming and hawing,

The Chartered Five:
Kern Therensgard, Human Wizard — Played by Ramarren
Brok Thundershams, Half-Elf Mounted — Played by nightdeath
Fren Leone, Dwarf Cleric of Abadar — Played by Walter Lindie
Darvan Jullies, Human Slayer — Played by Tiasar
Kyra Lightstep, Human Paladin — Played by MagusJanus
The five of you should create an alternate with your character name, at your earliest convenience and post in discussion. I'm going to list out some things that will help me keep the game organized and help keep us all in character.

The Short List:
Enora Ludevine
Luljeta Alraune

Silver Crusade

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Be it so known that the bearer of this charter has been charged by the Swordlords of Restov, acting upon the greater good and authority vested within them by the office of the Regent of the Dragonscale Throne, has granted the right of exploration and travel within the wilderness region known as the Greenbelt.

Exploration should be limited to an area no further than thirty-six miles east and west and sixty miles south of Oleg’s Trading Post. The carrier of this charter should also strive against banditry and other unlawful behavior to be encountered.

The punishment for unrepentant banditry remains, as always, execution by sword or rope. So witnessed on this 24th day of Calistril, under watchful eye of the Lordship of Restov and authority granted by Lord Noleski Surtova, current Regent of the Dragonscale Throne.


I'm P33J and I'm looking for 4 dedicated posters to tame the Lordless Lands known as the Greenbelt.

I'm looking for people that can post 1/day or more. Who understand that if they are going to be unable to post, they should leave a note and won't be mad if they don't post for more than 2 days in a row, they'll be booted.

In terms of Characters, a party of four who can work together, but each have their own ambition. I don't care if you're an optimizer or if you're a character player, so long as you can role play as well as roll play.

The challenges will be tough, I'm going to rewrite some of the scenarios, and will pull absolutely no punches.

To keep checks from getting in the way, I'll ask players to post a Perception Check and a Sense Motive Check with every post, I'll ask for diplomacy rolls only after you speak (as I give bonuses for smart RP). And we will track resources, because Wizards still need items to cast spells and fighters still need to eat.

Character Creation:
We'll Start At Level 1

Ability Scores:
20 Point Buy. You can't buy a score higher than 18 or lower than 7 before racial adjustments.

Classes: Any Core Class, Base Class or Class from the ACG Playtest guide, except Gunslinger and Summoner (sorry I just don't want to deal with those). Archetypes subject to approval.

Races: Human, Dwarf, Elf, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Gnome and Halfling

Legal Resources: If its in the Paizo SRD it's legal, if not it's not. This includes Story Feats.

2 Traits: Kingmaker campaign, PFS and Paizo SRD are legal.
Character Motivation: 3 Sentences. Where you're from. Why you're coming to the Greenbelt. What is your ambition.

Backstory: I'll ask for this if you are accepted. That way I can build hooks of it secretly.

Let Me know if you've played before, how far you got in. This won't disqualify you, I just want to know how much to twist if I take a vet over a rookie.

House Rules:
HP below 1/2, you're shaken.
Fighters, Clerics, Paladins and Sorcerers get 3 + INT skill points per level.
HP: Max at Level 1, Half at Level Ups
Gold: 150g to Start.
Fighters Get 1 Exotic Weapon Proficiency at Level 1 for Free.
Fighters Auto-Qualify for Combat Expertise at Fighter Level 3 regardless of INT.
Story Feats: If you take a Story Feat, I want a story to go with it, 1 paragraph is enough.

Some pointers to get picked.

Don't ask me if you can use something I said isn't allowed. If you're genuinely confused, no problem, send me a pm and we'll figure it out together, but I'm going to auto reject anyone who puts a Goblin Gunslinger or an Aasimar Synthesist in the recruitment thread.

Only apply once.

Be brief with your description, save the prose for the actual RP.

Be polite, don't comment on others submissions, unless it's to compliment them. You criticize someone's build, you're out.

Submissions are Open from now until Jan 1st or until 4 people post submissions so marvelous, I can't help but select them and start immediately, lol.

If you don't get selected, don't take it personally, I can only handle 4 and your character may have even been better, I just latched on to something about one of the other applicants.

Silver Crusade

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My bard is going to take up bass and write a variation of The Bear and The Maiden.

The Bear and the Succubus
Provides a +2 morale bonus to CMB checks.

Silver Crusade

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Male Human Scribe/0

I'm going to be gone til sunday. So you have until then to decide when you enter lol. Have a great weekend, I'm going to ride ponies with my 7 year old daughter.

Silver Crusade

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Male Human Scribe/0

She's having my baby be on in a day or two

Silver Crusade

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Chris Rathunde wrote:

They are required for all characters, old and new, as of August 15.

Any purchases made for old PCs after that time need to be recorded on an ITS. Purchases prior to August 15 are not required to be recorded on an ITS.

"Ah! Yeah. It's just we're putting new coversheets on all the ITS reports before they go out now. So if you could go ahead and try to remember to do that from now on, that'd be great. All right!" /Office Space

No knock at Chris, I love you buddy, it's just his quote triggered that scene and really solidified my issue with PFS as of late.

Silver Crusade

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Sean K Reynolds wrote:

Torag's paladin code does not say "take no prisoners." It says:

Against my people's enemies I will show no mercy. I will not allow their surrender, except to extract information. I will defeat them, and I will scatter their families. Yet even in the struggle against our enemies, I will act in a way that brings honor to Torag.

1) What's Torag the god of? Dwarves.
2) The dwarven hatred racial ability says, "Dwarves receive a +1 bonus on attack rolls against humanoid creatures of the orc and goblinoid subtypes due to special training against these hated foes."
3) So who are the "enemies" Torag's people? Goblinoids and orcs.
4) So what "my people's enemies" is that part of the code referring to? Goblinoids and orcs.
5) Are three old human women running an inn goblinoids or orcs? No.
6) Are those three old women any sort of threat to a paladin? No.
7) Should those three old women be considered "my people's enemies"? No.
8) Should they be considered opponents, or even villains? Certainly.
9) Is any random evil person on the street automatically an enemy of the paladin or his people? No. Paladins are not above the law and do not have the legal right to just kill anyone they want based on detect evil.

Dealing with threats to your entire race is one thing, dealing with three old ladies who don't even attack you directly (and who, as the scenario specifies, hide in their room because they know they're no match for you in combat) is an entirely different thing.

Don't play a paladin if you can't handle hard questions like "am I justified in killing this person who is no longer a threat to me."

Respectful Counter-Argument

3 and 4a. Certain Dwarves can take alternative Racial Traits (not Racial. Traits.) That change this hatred to other races or gives them advantages over other races. So you're argument presents immediate loopholes (Ancient Enmity, Giant Hunter, Saltbeard, Sky Sentinel, Xenophobic, Wyrmscourged, with a nod to the Stonelord Paladin Archetype to also toss in any and all constructs and golems).

3 and 4b. The code of Torag does not mention racial hatred, it says my people's enemies. You're inferring, not RAW, that this only applies to those races mentioned in the various Racial Traits (not Racial. Traits.) as particular enemies of the Dwarves.

3and 4b part deux. Now I'm not disagreeing that we shouldn't use inference to understand this rule, but that said, it can logically be argued that

These Crones, were as I understand, willfully and with malice operating a Concentration Camps for Dwarves. Additionally, these were not just any civilian Dwarves, but lawful representatives of the Dwarven Nation of the Five Kingdoms. This makes them an enemy of the Dwarven State, and as I would logically infer, enemies of the Dwarves.

9. Based on what I was described as a player in this Scenario,

We were to avoid any evidence that the Pathfinders were involved in this rescue and that this Inn was located not in a city with Guards etc, but on the frontier. Additionally, as the only legal representatives of this nation were the very individuals we had just killed to rescue the illegally held diplomats from the Five Rivers Nation, it would be reasonable to infer that the laws of this nation would not be enforced on these women, nor would they accept them as prisoners.

Finally, the actions of these women, in conjunction with the plots of the "legal authority" of this area, were decidedly evil and not just evil, but potentially world endingly stupid evil, I would argue that the Paladin of Torag was acting 100% in accordance to his and the Paladin code.

The Defense Rests :P

Silver Crusade

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one, because I love Redward and he's always got great Ideas, I came to actually present my solution with the PDFs and Book dilemma.

1. Free PDF with book proof of purchase.

Let's start here. I work in Advertising, I started my career out in shopper marketing, Redward can confirm this as he plays with my IRL. Therefore I'm presenting myself as an expert on my solution.

Coupon Packs - A little bit of snot glue and a small piece of paper with a code attached to the inside of the books. There is very little instances of theft of these coupons that I've had experience with, often you need to scan the coupon to make it active. Most modern registers that can process credit cards and print receipts can also be programmed to accept and process these coupons as well.

Scanned proof of purchase - A client of ours once allowed consumers to scan their receipts and upload them in return for coupons and other incentives. A little more cost intensive than the IRC, less likely to be pirated.

IRC - Instant Redeemable Coupons. This would be more of a burden on brick and mortars, but if it mean greater support of their stores and higher purchases of published products, they are often willing to take on the bookkeeping for this. It would work that for every book Paizo sends the brick and mortar, they get a card to keep at the register. This card can be scanned by a paizo app on an iPad or smart phone (many brick and mortars are using iPads to process loyalty programs like Belly and 5-Star now) You purchase the product, they pull out the card from behind the counter, scan it on the ipad, and voila, you have an instantly redeemable code for a free pdf of the product you purchased.

2. Make HeroLabs an approved Source. You're already getting a kick back from Hero Labs from the "rule-book" sets people have to buy to access the content, why is it not an approved source?

3. More robust PRD, with the ability to print off a watermarked Purchased Product List.

There are some backwards compatible issues with 1 and 3, I understand. And to be honest, I'm not sure what Paizo can do about those, other than allow for VOs to certify a legitimate copy of pre-implementation purchased hardcopies.

Again, ultimately, I don't care because I'm not enforcing the rule at the tables I run and as I've said before, if that means Brock and John don't want me GMing anymore it's no skin off my back, I don't GM for fun, I GM to give our VOs breaks from running and to take my turn. I'll go back to being one of those selfish, I only play, players lol.

And if some hardcore GM wants to see all my legitimate sources, I only buy PDFs so it's not a problem for me, as I've got my iPad with them all at my table. But if they start slowing up game play with mandatory audits, I can always pick up another hobby.

Silver Crusade

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John Francis wrote:
Arguing that a game run by your rules is more fun for the players is irrelevant; PFS isn't your game, it's Paizo's (and, by extension, Mike Brock and John Compton's: those are the guys who set the rules).

What house rule am I running other than "I don't have time to police if you have properly purchased the item?"

I have a ton of the PDFS myself on my own iPad, I have the PRD all I need to know as the GM is if the option is legal (surprise I also have a copy of the Additional Resources on my iPad too) and how it works. I'm not policing their purchasing and if Brock and John say I can't GM anymore great, I also don't have to buy the scenarios or run, I can just go back to playing all the time, with my completely legal characters.

And this argument is starting to take the same ridiculousness as the guy who says you can't be wearing your Paizo t-shirt under your flannel for your reroll, so I'm out.

Silver Crusade

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TriOMega beat me to it.

Really, I mean who cares. I pay Paizo to play their game. I invest in them. It isn't my job to make sure others are. If someone so desperately needs to be an authority in something that they're demanding to see all resources before anyone uses them in the game, maybe therapy would be a better use of their gaming time.

Silver Crusade

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I never ask for sources, I've got access to the PRD on my iPad. Boom, we're done, who's next on initiative.

The rest of these Internet Badasses can wave their rules as written authority boners at you all they want, I'm here to have fun and ensure the table has fun and keeps moving.

Silver Crusade

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I wish I could click favorite on this more times.

You summarily and logically lined up the issues with imbalance.

A fighter only gets to be good at a longsword (insert favorite weapon here) but a Wizard gets to be a Necromancer/Illusionist/Fireballer extraordinaire?

A Fighter has trained his whole life to be a great archer, he has spent as much time focusing on his archer as the wizard has spent focusing on his spells. He lives in a world that allows people to fly, he should be trained at how to deal with them.

Why is this so hard to accept for some people?

Silver Crusade

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MrSin wrote:
P33J wrote:
MrSin wrote:
P33J wrote:
I just think that if we're going to draw lines in the sand about what a "Fighter" can't do because it's unrealistic for a body to do that. Then we should be willing to make the same line in the sand about casters. It's unrealistic to think the mind can master that many schools of magic.
Are we trying to make magic follow the laws of physics now?
No, biology, education, concept mastery. I have no problem with magic bending the laws of reality, I have problems with the idea that fighters can only master one form of fighting, but magic users master 7 schools of magic.

Right! So instead of making casters more limited in choices, you should expand martials. Hard to overhaul a pre existing system without recreating it entirely, especially one that's pretty big like magic. Makes more sense to make one where it doesn't exist, like martials. Martials tend to just full attack.

The idea though that the mind suddenly can't hold so many spells is pretty arbitrary, was my point.(Vancian drives me crazy about that idea as is...)

I really don't have a problem with the current system. I love playing fighters, I typically only play in campaigns that top out at level 12 so I'm only somewhat starting to become weak compared to the Casters.

There was an ask for ways to nerf casters. I don't think anything needs to be done in current genesis of Pathfinder, because basically you'd have to rewrite the core rule book and apg.

I posted in another thread, the idea of Power Attack Style Combat feats for Martials. Feats that scale with progression, just like 90% of spells do and caster abilities. Weapon Focus, getting better every 4 levels incorporating weapon specialization, dodge providing a scaling bonus to AC. These are all things that we could implement in a Ultimate Martial book that would give Martials the ability to scale in a least a little better than Linear form.

More feats like Dazing Assault would be nice, a spell interruption feat would be awesome, the ability to use Sense Motive to counter defensive Casting all ideas we could incorporate into the current game.

But the ask wasn't for that, it was for a nerf for casters ;)

Silver Crusade

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MrSin wrote:
P33J wrote:
I just think that if we're going to draw lines in the sand about what a "Fighter" can't do because it's unrealistic for a body to do that. Then we should be willing to make the same line in the sand about casters. It's unrealistic to think the mind can master that many schools of magic.
Are we trying to make magic follow the laws of physics now?

No, biology, education, concept mastery. I have no problem with magic bending the laws of reality, I have problems with the idea that fighters can only master one form of fighting, but magic users master 7 schools of magic.

Silver Crusade

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Truth be told, I don't play wizards. I like to play Fighters, and occasionally a Barbarian and a Paladin.

I like the idea of honing a talent over years and excelling at it, but not necessarily being good at everything. Wizards are like those kids who always had to one up everyone in grade school, you know the ones I'm talking about.

You: "My dad took us to Chucky Cheeses this weekend it was great."
Wizard: "Well my dad owns the Chucky Cheeses and I get to play there every night and sleep in the ball pits."
You: "Oh, cool."
Wizard: "Yeah and he's best friends with Michael Jordan. I get to play basketball with him too."
You: "What does that have to do wit--"
Wizard: "My dad's the president of the U.S. too, I get to fly around on Air Force One every day to school?"
You: "That doesn't even make---"
Wizard: "I have a unicorn."
You: "That's nice, I'm going to leave now."

I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, but eh it was funny in my head.

Silver Crusade

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I've always thought the pure amount of schools of magic that a caster gets access too is a bit "unrealistic."

You've got a non-supernatural individual who is spending his life studying magic to cast.

Sounds a lot like a physician to me, I know a lot of doctors. Some are endocrinologists. Some are Proctologists. Some are cardiologists. Some are surgeons. Some are general practice.

They're all super smart. They all understand a little bit about other forms of medicine, but I know very few individuals who are both endocrinologists and cardiologists. I know few surgeons who are also psychiatrists.

So why do Wizards, who again are normal individuals who happen to spend a lot of time studying magic to cast able to cast 9th Level Evocation Spells and 9th Level Illusion Spells with relatively little difference in their ability to do either?

What if instead, you could separate schools of magic like schools of medicine. You can chose to be a evocation wizard, and get full access to evocation spells, but only know a smattering of low level spells in any other school. You could be an illusionist, but you're really limited on the number of conjuration spells you could cast.

Suddenly, you're not an all-knowing all seeing, all encompassing master of magic. But rather you're a really awesome fireball thrower, and you happen to know a few tricks with light.

Silver Crusade

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There are a few ways you could balance casting.

1. Make spells take more time.
Seriously, you're performing a ritual that bends the fabric of reality, it should take you more than 3 seconds (standard action). 0-level spells should take a standard action. Add a round per per every 2 spell levels to casting time. 9th level spells take 4 rounds to cast. The Spell Caster is still powerful, she's still able to cast save or suck. She just needs someone to protect him while she does it. And it doesn't have to be a round per 2 spell levels, it could be a round per 3 spell levels.

2. Make spells cost more money.
You're calling on fell forces beyond your comprehension to transform the very universe to your will, and it only costs you pocket lint? Or a handful of sand? No, you need to have some gold dust or ruby shards or some mother freaking unicorn's blood to cast and you don't get a feat to ignore it, skinflint. You want to cast glitterdust? Cool, you need a handful of gold dust worth 5g to cast it. You want color spray? You need a crystal prism worth 100 gold to cast it (you can reuse it, but why does a Wizard's components cost less than a fighter's dinner knife.

3. Make spells take something from you.
The fort idea is brilliant DC10+2x the Spell level or you're staggered for a number of rounds equal to 4x spell level. Make them cost Hit Points. You cast a 0-level spell it deals 1 HP of Non-lethal damage. You cast a 1st level spell it does 2 HP of Non-Lethal, 2nd Level 4 HP of Non-Lethal, 3rd Level 8 HP of Non-Lethal, 4th Level 16 HP of Non-Lethal, 5th Level 32 HP of Non-Lethal. You get a exponential power increase, you pay a exponential cost. Plus it forces Casters to have at least a 2nd Ability that is important.

4. And really this is something that could fix things a lot easier. Make more combat feats like power attack, that grow in power with progression in level. Shield Focus gives you the +1 at levels 1-3, becomes Missile shield at levels 4-7, becomes Ray Shield at levels 8-11, lets you apply shield bonus to Touch AC at 11-20. Step Up becomes Step Up and Strike, becomes etc...

Silver Crusade

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redward wrote:
Adam Mogyorodi wrote:
I would absolutely love to have Joe Pesci at my table.
Avoid any implications that he might be a clown.

What?! Are yoos sayin' Ima bard? That I'm sum sorta performing monkey dancin around for your inspiration? Is that it? Do Ima bard to you, your own personal buffa? Why I oughta...

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Male Dwarf Ranger 4 | HP 30/30 | AC 21 | T 12 | FF 19 | F +9 | R +9 | W +6 | I +4 | P +10

Rogar will go with her, because he's so good with diplomacy.

"Your time is important," The grumpy dwarf interjects sticking a stubby finger into the man's gun. "Just vhat is so important that a man who supposedly commands the arcane powers could not be bothered to help his neighbors against a horde of goblins and instead left it to a group of outsiders to defend his town. Perhaps, your time is not so important as your abilities are impotent."

The Dwarf starts to turn away, and then decides he has more to say.

"Tell me longshanks, vhat vould it take to get you off your highhorse and out protecting your village? Vould giants stir you from your studies? Perhaps a dragon, vould that be enough for your excellency to grace us vith your presence? I tire of the fools of this village who think they are above their own problems and show their hospitality to guests by barking commands and orders and expecting us to fight your battles. Now, unless you vant me to show you how ve treat foolish vizards in Janderhoff, you vill be polite and helpful to the lady."

Grand Lodge

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Wander... wrote:
Rogue Eidolon wrote:
Bruno Breakbone wrote:

Bruno grapple hard mode.


Bruno probably also be at big penalty for accepting the boons from previous parts, make hard mode ultra hard!
Ah, troll crap. Bruno, you're going to get us both killed, aren't you?

You two only think you go hard Mode, but I'm the only one of us who's actually spent all his prestige so I can't be rezzed.

Silver Crusade

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I have a barbarian who is terrified of Water.

We were somewhere and there was ice in the room.

My companions tried to get me to cross the ice and I refused.

When they asked why I replied:

"Ice is sneaky water."

Silver Crusade

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Version 1
Human Barbarian Invulnerable Rager
Berserker of the Society, Magical Knack
BUY: 17, 12, 14, 9, 12, 14

Human Feat: Skill Focus Knowledge Nature
Feat 1: Power Attack
Rage Power 2: Brawler (Improved Unarmed Strike)
Feat 3: Eldritch Heritage Stormborn Bloodline
Rage Power 4: Improved Brawler (Two-Weapon Fighting), +1 to STR
Feat 5: Extra Rage Power: Lesser Beast Totem
Rage Power 6: Beast Totem
Feat 7: Charging Hurler
Rage Power 8: Improved DR/-, +1 to CHA
Feat 9: Double Slice
Rage Power 10: Greater Beast Totem Pounce
Feat 11: Improved Eldritch Heritage Lightning Strike
Rage Power 12: Improved DR/-, +1 to INT

GEAR: +3 Furious, Called, Courageous War Hammer, +5 Mithral Breastplate, Winged Boots, +2 Band of Alluring Charisma, +2 Belt of Physical Might (CON, STR), Cape of Resistance +5, weapon band

Silver Crusade

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zylphryx wrote:

And we still get walk ups, we still have unexpected things pop up that have players either not be able to attend or be able to attend (also GMs), etc. We still have the proverbial wrench thrown into the works and have to juggle tables. We still have tables with mixed levels and we have folks who do need to occasionally play either up or down.

The point? Mixed level tables are a fact of life and "better planning" is not really an answer. There will always be mixed tables as we are not a homogenous batch of PFS Players ... we have different PCs at different levels, different schedules which can lead to us being able to play at different times. Any solution that begins with "you should all plan to start new characters together" is doomed to fail because of the ebb and flow from week to week.

And because mixed tier tables are inevitable, any solution which takes a PC that is LEGAL for the scenario and essentially penalizes them for playing is bad policy in my book.

The APL organizes as best we can in the time we can afford ... it comes off pretty well the vast majority of the time ... but event organization is not a job for any of us, nor should it be. The goal for ANY PFS event should be to seat every player who wants to play. We achieve this goal regularly.

I bolded the #1 argument of these entire discussion.

Every argument for the new system is: "Well it will work if you and the 50 floating members or your play group are more organized."

Well the proposed double XP, double gold and double prestige works and takes the burden off your unpaid volunteers and instead puts it on your players who are willing to play out of tier to figure out.

The new Double XP idea doesn't break the game for anyone. All it does is mean somebody can play faster if they want or misses out on a scenario to catch up with their local group. It equalizes things rather than penalizes anyone.

But we can't have that, because somebody might get confused and heaven forbid anyone takes 30 seconds to help them out. No instead lets penalize people for not having the exact right character for every effing tier.

Silver Crusade

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If you're willing to take a few levels in barbarian the world serpent totem also increases speed

Silver Crusade

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Access to Monster Combat Feats starting at level 7.

Think about these feats (Ignoring requirements for now)
Awesome Blow—I power attack someone and they go flying backward landing prone (assuming I take a negative to the attack)

Improved Natural Armor (duh)

Pounce (this is absolutely criminal that it's not part of the fighter feats)

Minotaur's Charge

Impaling Charge (I thrust my sword or spear through the guy I charged and can then try to pin him to the ground)

Roll With It (You add this to mobility and I'm shrugging off blows like crazy)

Snatch (I'm fighting you two handed, suddenly I just reach out and grab you by the throat, while holding my longsword or bastard sword in the other hand, stack this with reposition and I'm keeping my rogue behind me and moving fools into flank.

Make Ferocity a feat for fighters only.

Make these FIGHTER ONLY. Toss in a feat like "Retrain" which lets me burn a feat to retrain all my combat feats. Fighters would get that cool cinema-esque feel, without really getting overpowered. Add this to 4 skill points per level and you've got a solid class.

Silver Crusade

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There are times when a climb check will be evil.

I can remember one.

I was GMing, there was a catastrophe onboard a refugee vessel, think Titanic, but with people fleeing a terrible foe. The party's Chaotic Neutral Rogue decided that he had to get onboard one of the life rafts, so he attempted to push his way through the crowd. I ruled that he caused a chain reaction of people falling, and that he would have to climb over the still living women and children to reach the vessel.

He rolled a climb check. Stepping on the heads and bodies of these refugees to save themselves.

In contrast, our party was once investigating a mysterious plague that was raving a series of communities in area. It turned out to be magical in nature and was being spread by an evil cult. We caught a member, but as soon as one of our other characters touched him, they had to roll a fortitude check (DC 25 if I remember correctly) to avoid being infected. So I was left to deal with him (due to my immunity).

I found out he was going into the village to spread the disease further. Any physical interaction with him would lead to exposure and the insanely high Fortitude check (which no NPC could have passed without a nat 20).

We discovered the nature of the disease was such that if the carrier was dead, then they could no longer infect those who came into contact with them. So we were faced with a decision: Tie this evil (he detected evil) cultist up and hope that no one found him or touched him, take him with us and risk him escaping and warning his cult of our approach or kill him (the village had no prison, just stockades in the middle of the village square).

I chose to coup d'grace this tied up NPC and end the threat to the community. I refuse to acknowledge that this was an evil act.

Silver Crusade

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If I remember right, one of the founders of Paizo, Johnny Wilson, is/was a pretty devout Christian, with a PHD in Theology. The name paizo is from Koine greek (the greek used to write most of the early New Testament). I wouldn't be surprised to see some elements of his faith inspiring something he helped create. I know that with my faith, I find myself slipping elements of it into games/characters I play.

Silver Crusade

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SCPRedMage wrote:

Apparently no one's heard of "frontier justice"...

The party was out in the middle of nowhere, there WERE no legitimate authorities to police the area, and these people committed attempted murder.

The party was totally within their rights to kill them, so the very act of killing them would NOT be evil.

Now, sure, the party COULD have tied them up and drug them to the nearest town. Of course, do THAT runs the risk of the bandits getting loose and potentially harming the party. And even if they DO get the bandits to the nearest town unharmed, the local authorities are either going to execute them because hey, attempted murder, they're going to execute them because hey, jailing them costs money, or they're going to let them go because hey, who cares? The first two cases means the party took a good deal of risk for no real reason, and the third means those bandits are going to hurt someone else (probably people who can't defend themselves).

So yeah, killing them on the spot is not only entirely justified, but probably the most sensible course of action. Killing them while they're still under the effects of the Sleep spell just lowers the risk the party has to assume to take these criminals down.

Paladins, on the other hand, are required to stick with this silly concept called "honor". They have to go above and beyond in order to represent a higher standard, so killing these bandits instead of bringing them in could very well violate their edicts.

Of course, if they were to attack my Order of the Paw samurai, they'd receive a very swift, VERY brutal end. Anything less risks violating MY edicts.

I play a Paladin of Iomedae in our home Kingmaker Campaign. In the Greenbelt, I am the law, the Judge, the Jury and Executioner. Honor is reserved for foes who deserve it, not for those who waylay helpless travelers. Still if a Bandit surrenders, I offer the a choice, return to Fort Svetllana for a military tribunal, lead by the esteemed Kesten and be hung until you are dead, or face summary judgement in the field and receive the mercy of my great sword.

Silver Crusade

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As a player in Chicago, who was born south of Carbondale, but still in Illinois, I have to say that I'm quite pleased that Paizo recognizes Southern Illinois does not start at I-80.

Shut it Rene :D

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