Sharroa DiViri, Hellknight

Marian Reinholtz's page

28 posts (2,983 including aliases). 1 review. No lists. 1 wishlist. 1 alias.


Will we finally get a playable Fey race something like the Killoren ???
Please..... pretty please ;)

Which is why I'm playing an Andriod/Synthesist ;)

Should have explained better....I'm doing hooves are out :P Amulet of mighty fists is a possibility....
Heart of the metal would be great...but it targets a weapon (not sure that would include natural weapons) and like SOOOooo many spells I want, is not on the Summoner spell list :(

It also looks like what I need is to bypass "hardness" in many cases...
I could certainly just train to use an adamantine weapon...but it kind of defeats the character concept.

UllarWarlord wrote:

Oh my. Greed is beyond hilarious.

The summary of it: you can steal spell effects away from others, possibly even affecting yourself twice! True, they may not stack, but...heh.

The best part: It's a level 1 3+Wis/day ability. Sure, it's a steep caster level check to make at lower levels (15+spell level), but I really want to make a character witht his subdomain.

For reference, Asmodeus, Dahak, Lao Shu Po, and Norgorber get it.

So do they have sub-domains for all seven sins ?

I keep thinking I had seen a spell that can be used to allow a weapon or such to strike like adamantine....but now I can't find it anywhere...???

Also, any other methods of allowing an eidolon's strikes to bypass hardness would be appreciated ;)

I know it sounds trivial...but do they mention colors associated with her worship ?

Kyrinn S. Eis wrote:
Marian Reinholtz wrote:
Your turn....

After writing that last post, I did think of the power-ramp that PF has taken, but I wonder if Backward Compatibility has been factored-in at all in that analysis.

I'm not adverse to making the Class 'reasonably powerful/useful' for a PF-only game, but wonder if a WotC Warlock would match-up, all other factors being equal (race, level, etc.)

Other than that one outdated, and perhaps silly concern, I'm absolutely eager to see a full write-up. :P
Will you, Marian, undertake the first (revised) draft, so that I can more accurately see where the proposed Class is at, mechanically?

BTW, having a great time in this thread. Thanks for starting it. :D


Damn I wish I could change the name (grimace).

Actually my name is Nighttree (Marian is my female housemate who let me use her CC to make an I'm stuck with the name in my profile):)

The revision I'm suggesting is actually pretty simple.

Taking the Sorcerer "as is" as a starting point.
Just bump BA to average.
Add ability to cast in light armor.

Everything else on the base class stays as is.

The work comes in regards to the bloodlines themselves.

3rd level bloodline power would need to be a Sp ability (that fits the theme of the bloodline)of probably equivalant power to a 1st or 2nd level spell, possibly increasing to equivalant of a 3rd or 4th level spell at 9th level.

At 9th level, you would gain an additional at will Sp, equal to a 3rd or 4th level spell, that would increase to the equivalant of a 5th or 6th level spell at 17th level.

At 15th level, you would gain an Sp equal to a 6th level or higher spell.

The real work is in finding spells that fit the theme of the bloodline, and that have logical scaling variants for them to bump up to.

Example: Celestial bloodline......

3rd level: Protection from evil (as the spell) at will as a Sp ability
At 9th level, this functions as Magic circle against evil, at 17th level it functions as Dispel evil (just an example, the particular spell chain may be to powerful for an "at will" ability).

9th level:Cure criticle wounds at will, at 17th level, functions as Mass cure moderate wounds (just an example, the particular spell chain may be to powerful for an "at will" ability).

At 15th level: Use Holy Aura as an at will Sp (just an example, the particular spell chain may be to powerful for an "at will" ability).

The only hurdle to balance I see, is making sure that the replacement abilities of the bloodline are not "cherry picked" to break game balance.

The best starting point I can think of is to look at existing Warlock invocations.
Many already have logical chains (Beguiling influence, Charm, Devils Whispers ) and are balanced as "at will" abilities.

Kyrinn S. Eis wrote:

It's not even so much the weapon as the weilder and its BAB and HPs.

If the 'Sworlock' were confined to Light Armour with no Arcane Spell Failure -OR- a d8 HD, but got the Medium BAB scheme, I'd be pleased as punch. But, we know that the inclusion of both resulted in a reduced spell regimen for WotC's Battle Sorcerer, and I'm not too thrilled with that.
My vote is either one, but not both, thus avoiding the spell-nerfing.

At-Will Rays empowered by the Blood/Pact energies (or claw attacks for those that have them and the same energy stack), plus a little more combat umph, seems like a solid balance -- and the distinctiveness we have been asking for.

> excited <

I know the battle sorcerer lost one spell of highest level, to make up for it's increase to BA, and the ability to cast in light armor, but as the pathfinder classes have been a bit of a bump in power anyway, I'm not so sure it's unbalanced.

I mean look at the Duskblade....sure he has a limited spell list, but full BA, can cast in medium armor, and higher HD ?

And although it's a strong class, it's not broken.
A Warlock allready has the cast in light armor, average BA, and no spell components, as well as multiple at will SL's.

Using the bloodline from pathfinder greatly reduces the damage from eldritch blast, and what we are looking at are a lot fewer SL's, so Im not convinced it's overpowered.

Your turn....

DivineAspect wrote:

I'm loving a lot of these ideas, heres something I whiped up for somem who wanted to do just that.

Sorcerer Variant: Warlock

Lose normal Spell Progression aside from Cantrips, which you gain 3 + Chr modifier.

Instead of a Bloodline, you gain a Pact, which has Identical Effects.
Spells gained from the Pact are at will.

Every Even level you gain a feat from the favored feats from your pacts.

At level 3, and again at levels 7, 12, and 17, you gain an additional Pact of your choice. Pacts with similar powers (Ranged touch attacks, claw attacks, etc) may be stacked.

Gain Medium BAB, Medium Armor Proficieny

If you are going to drop the Spell Progression, I would bump the first level attack ability a bit.

Something like 1D6 +1 per caster level at least (which is still a lot weaker than the current Warlock.

I was thinking more along the lines of keeping the Sorcerer spell progression, keeping the first level attack power as is, and just switching some of the bloodline abilities to low level spell like abilities.

I like the idea of an entangeling blast for the Fey.....
Another thought I had was a gaze attack that causes confusion ?
Something like once you meet their gaze, you can't tear your eye's away from them. is a starting point for re-working the bloodlines.
I'm starting by using the same formula of a blast that does 1D6 +1/2CL.

looking at the bloodlines that do not currently have a blast.

Abyssal: 1st level Bloodline/Pact ability. Hellfire Blast (Su) Fire dmg.

Arcane: 1st level Bloodline/Pact ability. Eldritch Blast (Su)untyped.

Draconic: Breath weapon that does dmg based on dragon type.

Fey: ???

Infernal: Add 30 foot range.

Undead: Charnel Touch (Su): This ability allows you to channel negative energy through your hands at will (but no more than once per round), which you can use to either attack living foes or heal undead.

There have been several suggestions about combining Warlock abilities into the Sorcerer class and creating a single class that is markedly different from the Wizard.

As I have thought about it, I'm liking the idea more and more.

Bloodlines can easily be expressed as pacts (I know, it's a rip off from 4E, but it's a cool idea)and it moves the Sorcerer that much closer to what many seem to feel it should be (as well as further from the highley ritualized Wizard).

What I'm currently thinking goes something like this.
NOTE: these ideas are drawn from many good ideas from people on the list, they are not all my ideas, I'm just shamlessley stealing them.

Add the ability to cast in light armor to the pathfinder Sorcerer.
Increase BA to average.
This, combined with the eschew material feat moves the Sorcerers casting to something closer to spell-like ability, which I think fit's the Sorcerer to a tee.

Adjust some of the bloodline abilities to be more like warlock will spell like abilities based on the specific bloodline/pact that they made at first level.

Switch all of the bloodline first level abilities to some kind of touch attack (most of them have some form of blast allready, so just need a few new options for those that don't).

Allow Sorcerers to "invest" spell slots into the touch attack ability, gaining +1D6 dmg to their blast for each level of spell slot invested.

So what do people think of these ideas ?
What Ideas that have not been mentioned have you had ?

One of the first things I did after looking at the pathfinder sorcerer, was to write up a Wild mage bloodline, which uses the Wilders surge mechanics (including enervation and euphoria).

I have not had the oppertunity to give it a test run yet....but I'm looking foreword to taking it for a spin.

I'm in complete agreement with the idea of folding the Sorcerer and the Warlock together.

Both represent parts of what I have always felt a Sorcerer should be.

It was suggested in another thread, that some of the bloodline abilities should be more like the "at will" invocations of a Warlock, and as I have thought about the idea, I'm liking it more and more.

I was pretty much "out the gate" trying to figure a Pathfinder version of Warlock for this very reason, but was concerned about stepping on the Sorcerers toes.

Since Bloodlines, can just as easily be discribed as Pacts, I think it's logical to move more in this direction, and fold the two into a distinct class, that is obviously different from the Wizard.

Interesting idea.

Most of the Bloodlines give some kind of "at will" blast ability, so If the Sorcerer can expend spell slots to bump the damage a limited number of times per day, that would be workable.

I'm also looking at doing the whole "invocations" as replacements to bloodline power.
Looking at doing...
3rd level: least
9th level: Lesser
15th level: Greater
19th level: Dark

I'm actually really liking the idea of rolling Sorcerer and Warlock into one.

seekerofshadowlight wrote:
dont think you can change that

That's what I was affraid of.......guess I'll have to live with it.

Anyone know how to do this ?

It has been using my housemates name, and I can't find anyway to change it in my account profile (it's the one thing it wont let me change).

My innitial "knee jerk" is now over, and I'm thinking this idea has potential.

Borrowing from the Warlock class, might in fact give the Sorcerer the distinctiveness that has been missing (not to mention it solves the problem of having to homebrew a pathfinder version of the Warlock).

In addition it allows the option of percieving the Bloodline as a "pact" made with otherwordly forces, just as easily as an inherited bloodline.

These are some of the houserules we use for Sorcerers.

In the setting we play in, Wizards require much more complex mechanisms for casting, which "tames" the energy so that it is more controlled.

Sorcerers tap directly into ambient arcane power, and as a result are more like Fey or Dragons wielding spell-like abilities.

Eschew materials at first level (I was tickled pink that Pathfinder added this).

Able to cast in light armor due to simpler somatic components.

Detect magic @ will.

Spontaniouse meta-magic.

We have been using the varient crit rules that WotC put out just before 4E (no confirmation roll).

So far we like it.

Courrain wrote:
What about templated races that have no racial HD and have a +2 LA or +3 LA? Will the LAs for them change now that the standard races are more powerful?

I would suspect that since a "template" is still bumping a base race above norm, they are probably pretty much the same.

Diego Bastet wrote:

They buffed the classes to make up for the druid. Many later classes are comparable with the druid in this aspect of things. Like duskblade and warlock.

Now, even if it's non-core I think we can help the guy with ideas of conversion, instead of coming with a great and big "they won't do it". How about "they won't do it, but hey, I think that to convert it to your pf game you need to...".

Thanks DB....that's all I was looking for in the first place (grin).

The only thing I have running through my head at the moment, is if it's comparable "as is", or if I need to consider some degree of additional "domain" type power that scales like the domain abilities of a Cleric (of course, allowing them one domain at first level is the obviouse answer).

Psychic_Robot wrote:

That's not open-game content,

What you have to understand is that the non-Core base classes are going to be even weaker when compared to their Core counterparts now that Pathfinder has buffed them.

I thought the whole point of buffing the core classes was to make them comprabable to later classes.

Spirit shaman is in itself a pretty potent class, which is why I assumed it didn't really need much tweaking to stand with the core classes.

Any thoughts on converting the Spirit Shaman to pathfinder ?

Asides from the possible change to HD etc....I'm kind of thinking that it is OK "as is".

JoelF847 wrote:
Check out p. 159, second paragraph in the Polymorph sub-school section.

THANKS....that clears it up nicely :)

I see no specific mention in any of the Beastshape spells, of gaining a natural attack of any kind ???

Am I missing something.

LOL.....I just did the same thing a couple of weeks ago.
Is there a way to PM people on this board ??? (sorry new and still figuring these forums out).

If so I can shoot you my idea and you can take what you will from it.

I just stumbled on to this thread, looking for information on creating a Pathfinder Warlock.

Thought I would throw out my ideas (since the WOTC sight would be kind of in bad taste of me).

Pathfinder Warlock
Hit Die: D8
Skill Points: 2+ Int
Eldritch Pact (Su): You have forged a pact with mysterious entities that grant you your arcane power.
Choose one of the following pacts: Fey Pact, Infernal Pact, or Star Pact. The Pact you choose determines the following Warlock abilities.

1st level Invocation: Your first level least invocation must be chosen from those listed under the pact you have chosen.

Pact Boon: You treat your Caster level with invocations listed under your pact as if it where two higher than your actual caster level. You also gain a +2 on the save DC (if any) of all invocations that appear on your Pact list.

Fey Pact Invocations:
Least: Baleful utterance, Call of the beasts, See the unseen,
Lesser: Baneful Blast, Charm, Witchwood step, Walk Unseen,
Greater: Bewitching Blast, Nightmares made real, Tenacious plague.
Dark: Word of Changing, Retributive Invisibility.

Infernal Pact Invocations:
Least: Dark ones own luck, Devils sight, Frightful Blast,
Lesser: Brimstone Blast, The Dead Walk, Fell Flight, Serpents Tounge.
Greater: Devils whispers, Vitriolic Blast, Wall of perilous flame.
Dark: Casters Lament, Steal Summoning.

Star Pact Invocations:
Least: All seeing eyes, Entropic Warding, Sickening Blast,
Lesser: Beshadowed Blast, Flee the Scene, Curse of Despair. Unbearable Countenance.
Greater: Noxious Blast, Chilling tentacles, Painful Slumber of Ages.
Dark: Dark Foresight, Path of Shadows.

New Invocations

Unbearable Countenance (lesser 4th) An inner power begins to shine forth from your face, giving you a radiant countenance that dismays your foes. With a glance, you can render a single foe within thirty feet shaken for one round (Will negates; DC 14 + Cha modifier). Your glance becomes a mind effecting fear effect, and using it requires a move action.
Any foe that successfully saves against this effect is immune for 1 hour thereafter. This ability is always active.