Madokar Valortouched's page

And honestly, it took me a few months to process everything and write a complete summary of the moments that significantly changed the finale of the AP. Because the final boss of the AP wasn't who you might have thought it would have been. Which is a good thing, because Barzillai went down like a punk in under one round of combat when the party confronted him at the Apex of Bone.

No, the final boss of the AP was... Mangvhune, of all people. Mangvhune survived the initial encounter with the party... because the party ran from him once he took out the Champion of Irori in under one round. But the thing is that when the Champion of Irori fell, it was the first PC death in the entire AP. Between me being a rookie GM and my players being experienced veterans, they went all the way until the halfway point of Book Five before there was a PC death.

Because of that, I heavily edited Mangvhune's section to instill that all-important threat of a TPK into the group. Because until this point, a TPK simply wasn't a possibility that was entering the minds of my players. They didn't feel like they were in danger. Which led to Mangvhune becoming the enemy they dreaded the most as he survived far longer than he was supposed to. And that whenever he showed up, it was extremely tense and a player always died. He even managed to actually cause a near-TPK at their penultimate encounter.

He's still alive by the end of the AP, for crying out loud. Mangvhune was even addressed as the party's "actual archnemesis" after they got back from Hell and destroyed Barzillai at the Apex of Bone. This kind of happened because A) Mangvhune made everything so extremely personal. And B) he openly revealed that he had been manipulating the PCs to accomplish his own goals. But because of what was happening, the PCs knew they had to do what he wanted.

Long story short, the PCs beat the AP and thwarted Barzillai's scheme. But Mangvhune was able to use them to create an "awakened" demon army for Shax at the final confrontation located at the Soul Anchor. The PCs were able to regain control of the Soul Anchor, but Mangvhune retreated after the PCs managed to survive all the forces he could marshal against them. Since he accomplished his mission, he saw no point in throwing his life away and was actually amused that the PCs were able to give him his first real defeat in all of his existence.

I'm looking forward to this. I've never played WotR before, so this could be a neat way to experience the AP on my own. I already eye some key NPCs from the AP itself, as well as our token Iconic for this game.

Is all the stuff you mentioned about the wyvern not being fully mentally developed actually in the book? I don't recall that but might have glossed over it

It's something I added in. There was no evidence that it would speak before initiating combat, the book only say that he "chirps with excitement" whenever he would see Lucian.

So between being raised from birth to be a mount, Lucian not having Draconic as a bonus language, and the nonverbal response from Zailosorn it seemed like something neat to add in.

So my players wound clearing Menador Keep last session. They infiltrated the Keep posing as merchants and slaughtered all 22 of the Menador Soldiers alongside Lucian Thrune before he could get to his mount, the wyvern Zailosorn. They went through all 22 soldiers because as a rookie GM, I missed that they were supposed to flee after Lucian went down, but Lucian went down so quick and before so few witnesses the rest of the soldiers didn't get to hear the news of their commander's death.

At any rate, this meant that when they stumbled across Zailosorn in his pen, they had some time to learn a bit about Lucian through his belongings (I tacked on a journal to fill in the bits on how he got a wyvern mount and how he trained Zailosorn). And when they found out about Zailosorn's sad life, they couldn't bring themselves to kill him.

So the paladin and the ranger tried their hands at Diplomacy. The Ranger used her Wild Empathy (yes, I know that it doesn't quite work on Dragons, they are not animals. But the Ranger is a new player and I liked where she was going with her character). The Paladin was the only one who spoke Draconic, so he spoke while the Ranger tried to soothe Zailozorn.

It was then I revealed that Zailosorn barely knew how to speak Draconic. He was hatched by Lucian and raised to be a mount since birth. He was treated like a beast of burden and didn't know how to speak. That was when my players fell in love with the dragon. They really didn't want him to die by that point.

They entertained letting him go, but due to his stunted mental development, they were afraid he would die if left to his own devices. Since I was telling the players how much EXP they were earning as they progressed through the AP, they knew were close to leveling up and wanted to come back if they leveled before they had to destroy the Keep.

And wouldn't you know it? That is exactly what happened. So they came back after they leveled and our Constructed Pugilist Brawler asked if he could take Zailosorn as a mount if he took a level in the Mounted Fury Vigilante Archetype.

I double checked Lucian's stat block, and he had no special Archetype or Feat that allowed him a Wyvern mount. So he got Zailosorn solely through his family connections. With that in mind, I said "If the villain NPC can have this mount without any special features or build, then so can you". And now the party has wyvern mount that they want to rehabilitate.

I knew there was a reason I kept gravitating towards Iomedae being the patron of my paladin characters.

Just by going over what happens in Hell's Rebels, Shensen's overall class level and how many people who "know" each other that wind up joining the Silver Ravens, I have a few ideas who Shensen knows.

Off the top of my head, I figured she knew Mialari Docur and her Lacunafex. Though that was because of an poorly-thought out idea that involved Shensen sponsoring a PC's child so they could be enrolled in the School. That whole hullabaloo was because this was my first major attempt at being the GM of an AP, and I was about to start overstepping my bounds as a GM.

Still, Shensen knowing Mialari makes sense. And given that Mialari knows Hetamon, I'd say Shensen knows who the Rose of Kintargo is as well. And of course, you can't really ignore Laria Longroad as a significant mover and shaker of Kintargo's underground. So that's easily Hetamon, Mialari and Laria.

If we want to get a bit obscure, I'd say she probably knew Porcia Victocora and the Sacred Order of Archivists as well. It makes sense through Porcia's connection to Laria, and that Order was one of the organizations hit on the Night of Ashes.

The local anime convention made us postpone our game sessions for two weeks, but we finally picked up where we left off last night. The only bit left for Book One is the raid on Hocum's Fantasmagorium/Many-Steps Monastery.

It was fairly standard for the most part. Vendalfek scouted out the location ahead of time, telling them about the zombies and Asmodean redactors. The Fushi Sisters laid the ice trap at the entrance, and then the PCs waited until the crack of dawn to make their move.

The Skunk Ape Skeletons made things difficult at first, but they sorted it out. Since they made their raid at dawn, the ningyos were dormant corpses. Fortunately, Roza made her Knowledge (Nature) and realized that they became undead at night. So Victor promptly bashed their heads in while they lay dormant.

The Scarlet Spiders in the Insect Zoo took the longest to sort out, but that was the only real obstacle with them. The melee fighters kept making their FORT saves to overcome the poison, so they didn't take any stat damage. Then it was just a matter of swatting some spiders to clear the room.

Nivelan got taken out by one of the burnt zombies in the Hall of Historical Truths. However, Ceil quickly put herself in danger to deliver a Potion of Cure Light Wounds and deftly dodged the slam attacks of the zombies. Victor quickly dispatched of most of the zombies with his handaxe.

When it came to deal with the Asmodean Redactors, Ceil sneaked in and took one of the Redactors hostage with a Mystic Bolt during her surprise round. When the rest of the monks called for Azvernati instead of negotiating, Ceil hit three of them with a Colour Spray, knocking them unconscious for six rounds.

Ceil then made an Acrobatics check to get away from the Redactor she was holding, blasting him with her Mystic Bolt as she got away. Before they could tie up the Redactors, Azvernathi entered combat smug and full of himself, but a blow from both Nivelan and Victor quickly caused him to surrender and piss his pants.

Azvernathi told the PCs how to enter the Monastery, as well as healing them all to full health before fleeing the museum. Just not to waste the ice trap, the PCs told him how to avoid it. Then even sent Vendalfek after him to make sure he fled the city. Focusing now on the Redactors and tying them up as they dealt with a blubbering Azvernathi, the PCs then tried to interrogate the monks, but their threats just caused them to spit in the PCs faces.

As such, Victor knocked them out with nonlethal damage and left them tied up. The PCs plan to leave them hogtied in front of the Church of Asmodeus with a note from the Silver Ravens. And then we called it a night just as the PCs unlocked the entrance to the Many-steps Monastery.

What I'm going to do with Vendalfek is have him get distracted. For instance, I have a firm idea of what spells and spell-like abilities he'll use when the party ambushes Kossrani's ambush (they already broke into the loading dock area, jammed the lock for the barracks (and thus locked four guards in it), and are about to enter the Salt Works from the rear. (I figure a modified 28 for Disable Device would be sufficient to unlock the back portcullis area.) After all, Vendalfek is there to be amused and because he was provided with flattery as to his skills and ability. He wants to show of! And just spamming certain spells would be boring.

That's the thing to remember about NPCs. You can have them cast spells as they (you) feel fit. And Vendalfek may very well get bored just doing what the PCs ask. Don't forget... he's fae AND a dragon. If the party isn't giving him a significant share of the treasure then he'll soon feel like he's being taken advantage of. Further, he may end up wanting the PCs to do favors for him. They should be outrageous ones. ;)

I'm leaning towards Vendalfek having fun joining the PCs on their missions. And since the group has more or less decided to make him a familiar, I'm having him bond with Ceil as a character.

The treasure hoard is a good point of concern, though. I think I'll have him voice his desire to have his own cut of any found treasure so he can continue to build his hoard.

We had our second session last night. It went pretty smoothly. We had a little hiccup in regards to Ceil switching to her Social Identity, but I intend to let her player know it's okay for the party to know of her Dual Identity feature.

The PCs recruited the Fushi sisters. All of them, included Korva. Though our Tiefling Monk is highly suspicious of them. The PCs managed to investigate the fires and solved the murder case in the Devil's Nursery. Then we had to call it a night.

Interestingly, both Laria and Zea have shown interest in the Tiefling Monk, Navelan. But that's because he's in his early 20's and has a CHA score of 21.

Well, our first session last night went swimmingly. They handled the riot perfectly. It was actually Ciel Longroad (alias of Narcelia Thrune, the Warlock Vigilante) who flung the manure at Barzillai after he made his Eighth Proclamation that started the riot. They then killed the Chelish Citizen's Group Thugs that attacked them and Color Sprayed the Dottari Guards into unconsciousness. So that sped up the progression of the riot. They were at round 5 when all their foes were defeated, so that is when Nox showed up with Mephiry and the 12 Dottari.

That was the point the PCs hightailed it out of there with the rest of the crowd and wound up saving Rexus. They all agreed to follow him to the Fair Fortune Livery, and this is where it got interesting. When the pack of feral dogs showed up, Rosa Therywn (our Halfling Ranger) managed to successfully lower the hostility of the dogs all the way up to helpful. The two mutts stayed above ground, but the Mastiff followed them downstairs.

I spun it so that if they failed a Perception check, the Mastiff would start barking. So it scared off the Grimples from trying their Prestidigitation shenanigans above ground and they engaged them downstairs.

Rexus had a chance to shine against the Lemures. One use of Colour Spray rendered both Lemures unconscious. Allowing Victor Calvus (our Human Constructed Pugilist Brawler) to coup de grace them with the MW Silver Dagger Rexus gave them.

Then came the cache room. It was shaping up to be pretty standard fare... until the Mastiff started barking at the rafters. Which prompted Rexus and Ceil Longroad to start detecting magic. They eventually spotted Blodsodriette.

Rather than fight them, the Imp elected to talk. Seeing a chance for freedom even it meant being sent back to Hell, she managed to convince the PCs to destroy her contract. There was talk about trying to keep her, but when she told them she was bound to a contract signed by a Sarini, the choice was made to send her back to Hell.

But before Blodsodriette left, she hissed at Ceil for her "treachery" for showing intent to fight House Thrune. Which definitely intrigued the rest of the group, but there are many ways to work on this angle with Ceil's player (which we talked about afterwards in private).

It sounds interesting! I'd be worried about the lack of healing, but your NPC Paladin should be able to help in that regard.

To get your players even more invested, I'd suggest looking at my posts about fleshing out the Silver Ravens teams - have them be people with their own concerns, beliefs, and the like. Have some of them become friends with the core party. Let them have internal conflicts among themselves that the party has to work around.

Heck, you can even have the teams recommend other people to form new teams. Create a sense of family there so that there is a bond between these characters and your players. You can take your time in going through the adventures... as the game is supposed to be fun and roleplaying is an important part of this :)

Good luck! :)

I'll look into it. The group is currently undecided if we're going to implement the Rebellion system at all. I think we'll try it out, and if it doesn't mesh with the group, I'll just cast it aside and assume the Rebellion automatically succeeds in its checks.

My group starts Hell's Rebels tomorrow night, and I can't wait to start!

I've got four players, and I've done my best to ensure that they are all invested in becoming rebels. I've got a Female Human Warlock Vigilante, a Male Pitborn Tiefling Nornkith Monk, a Human Male Contructed Pugilist Brawler, and a Halfling Ranger.

The Ranger belongs to the member who has the least experience as a player. To get her invested, we went with her being an escaped slave with a 100 Platinum bounty. The Tiefling Monk was an initiate to the Sacred Order of Archivists, but because he didn't have a chance to take any vows or even see their HQ, he was spared on the Night of Ashes.

The Human Brawler had an arm and a leg replaced with construct parts at the order of the previous Lord-Mayor of Kintargo, Jilia Bainilus. This lofty boon means the Brawler was either a part of her private militia or a secret lover of the former Lord-Mayor (we're undecided on this part)

And finally, we have the Warlock Vigilante. On the surface, she appears to be an escaped slave taken in by Laria Longroad. In reality, she is Narcelia Thrune, long lost sister to Barzillai Thrune. She was smuggled out of her family estate by the house slaves after seeing how she suffered under Barzillai's creepy affections.

I'm thinking of having a Paladin join them as an NPC party member if they run into some trouble along the way. I already have an idea in mind for a character concept.

So some news on the Narcelia front. Her player has settled on the Warlock archetype for the Vigilante class. So Narcelia is halfway between Scarlet Witch and Dr. Strange by this point.

We've crafted a little backstory for her. The slaves of Narcelia's family estate took pity on her after seeing her suffer through Barzillai's abuses. They helped smuggle Narcelia out of her home and she wound up in the nearest safe harbour, which was Kintargo.

When Narcelia wound up in Kintargo, Laria Longroad wound up becoming her caretaker. More or less. Laria became something akin to a fun aunt for Narcelia, who taught the Rebel Thrune how to adjust to commoner life. To Narcelia's surprise, she wound up preferring the life of a commoner. She especially found the food more palatable.

Narcelia was working on rebuilding her life... when Barzillai suddenly appeared in Kintargo after the Night of Ashes and established himself as the new Lord-Mayor. Now to protect her new future and to banish the demons of her past, Narcelia is about to face her demons.

So our first Rise session was last night. Our group recently went through three PFS modules based in Magnimar, so we started at level 2. My original character stayed behind in Magnimar so I could bring in a new character, Baros the pitborn tiefling paladin of Sarenrae.

The rest of the party arrived in Sandpoint as representatives of the Pathfinder Society. Baros was already in Sandpoint due to him being sent on pilgrimage from his temple in Korvosa. Nonetheless, Baros was already in the Rusty Dragon when Rogrimm the male dwarf barbarian, Josephine the female tiefling witch, and Venna the female elven bard arrived in town. They were escorted to the Rusty Dragon by a PS intern named Tim. They were instructed to find Shalelu, but they immediately went off on their own initiative to explore the town.

Baros, not being a part of the Pathfinder Society, made his way to the Sandpoint Cathedral to greet Father Zantus. Despite Zantus' backhanded comments about a tiefling paladin, Baros was still accepted into the Cathedral when he offered his services as a healer.

Rogrimm wanted to find a tavern with "more character" and found his way to the Fatman's Feedbag. He promptly asked for "something with some kick to it", and he was given blowfish sushi. Which Rogrimm promptly downed with no ill effects. A shady patron then set up a pool to see if Rogrimm could handle "the challenge" and finish off "the big one".

Rogrimm then had to make a FORT save after eating a whole roast lamb. Suffering no bad effects, he then had to eat a bulette steak. Again, he made his FORT save and asked for more. He then was given a charred lump of flesh that had to be some creature's heart. When he ate it, it tasted like smoke, ash, and it electrified Rogrimm's taste buds. Making his FORT save YET AGAIN, Rogrimm asked for MORE and then gained Electricity Resistance 2. A later Knowledge (Planes) check made by both Baros and Venna revealed that this was a Demon Heart.

Rogrimm was finally offered "the big one", and it was a whole roast boar. By this point, Rogrimm needed to Rage in order to down the boar, and down it he did. He made the final FORT save and won 25 gold. Rogrimm also looked like he was pregnant by this point from his swollen belly, let out a massive belch and asked for something to drink.

Josephine and Venna remained in the Rusty Dragon, and started to chat up Ameiko. Josephine wanted tea, since she viewed herself as a classy lady. When Ameiko provided some green tea, Venna and Josephine started to ask Ameiko about Minkai, much to her frustration. They kept this up, and eventually started to badger her about Ninjas.

By this point, Baros and Rogrimm had made their way back to the Rusty Dragon. Seeing Rogrimm's newly acquired mass, Ameiko informed him that while average patrons used the indoor chamber pots, Rogrimm had to use the hole in the back yard of the Rusty Dragon to make his "deposit".

Sensing Ameiko's growing frustration, Venna noticed a lute hanging behind the bar. Asking Ameiko if she played, Venna ultimately convinced Ameiko to start a performance in the Rusty Dragon. Everything was alright at first, as Ameiko's performance started to draw in people from the street. But then Lonjiku showed up.

Lonjiku started to berate Ameiko for running the Rusty Dragon, and especially for entertaining her patrons. Baros stood up for Ameiko, telling Lonjiku that Ameiko has great talent and should be allowed to choose her own path in life. Inspired by Baros, Ameiko stood up to Lonjiku.

Lonjiku responded by slapping Ameiko in front of all of the Rusty Dragon's patrons. Baros punched Lonjiku with a gauntlet covered fist in turn. Lonjiku then began to slink away, cursing everybody in Tien. Rogrimm, with his 8 CHA, decided to smooth things over by chasing down Lonjiku's carriage and making an invitation to the Fatman's Feedbag that Lonjiku's saw as an Intimidate check.

Rogrimm was somehow able to convince Lonjiku that he did the best he could for Ameiko that he could in Sandpoint with what little resources he had as they drank sake together. In the end, Lonjiku was convinced not to hold a grudge. Drunk as a skunk, Rogrimm escorted Lonjiku back to his estate and with the help of his servants, managed to get him safely to bed.

Meanwhile, back at the Rusty Dragon, Ameiko had run up to her room crying. Baros followed her, trying to console her. His Diplomacy check succeeded, and he gave her a sincere talk about how our heritage doesn't define who we are or how our lives must be. Only our actions and choices determine where we go in life.

The next morning, the party FINALLY met Shalelu. She arrived at the Rusty Dragon with rope in tow, seeking to arrest Baros. She was mildly stunned by the 6'6" tiefling with 18 CHA, but then presented the rope with intent to arrest Baros for striking a nobleman. Baros simply said that they didn't know each other well enough for that yet.

The racket that followed attracted Rogrimm, Josephine and Venna, and when Shalelu released these lunatics were the Pathfinders she was supposed to meet yesterday, her eye and ears started to twitch. Eventually, we made it clear that Baros only struck Lonjiku for striking Ameiko first, which made Shalelu relent on the arrest attempt, her eye still twitching.

Trying to get the tour of the town started that was supposed to have started yesterday, the group set off to explore Sandpoint. The tour went fairly well. Until we came across the Sandpoint General Store and met Ven Vinder along with his daughter, Shayliss.

Shayliss subtly flirted with both Baros and Josephine in front of her father, remarking on the "sinful opportunities". Picking up on Shayliss' intentions, Baros asked Shalelu about Shayliss' reputation. A Sense Motive check revealed that Shalelu and Shayliss were "friends with benefits", but Shalelu refused to classify the relationship in that manner.

As we explored the town, Venna and Josephine started to ask Shalelu about herself. Shalelu revealed that she was friends with Ameiko, which prompted more questions about Ninjas. This is when Shalelu snapped, attacked Rogrimm by slapping him, screaming about how on Golarion these lunatics were Pathfinders and she was kicked out, followed by her then running off into the forest.

We managed to come to the Cathedral before we ended the session, but Father Zantus told Rogrimm not to enter the Cathedral ever again after he started belching and Baros told him that he shouldn't have eaten the demon's heart last night.

I don't want to spoil anything, but there's plenty of reason for a tiefling to be born in Sandpoint.

Maybe Baros was born in Sandpoint but when his fiendish heritage was revealed at birth he was quietly sent away to Magnimar, and given to the temple of Sarenrae who raised him as a paladin. And now he's returning to the home he never knew.

But the main thing is work with your GM, they should have read the whole AP and there's plenty of cool tie ins.

Huh. I was unaware there was a temple to Sarenrae in Magnimar. I can easily alter his backstory so that Baros was born in Magnimar instead of Absalom. I only went with Absalom because I thought that was the closest place of worship for Sarenrae outside of Qadira and Northern Garund.

And it makes the reason why he headed to Sandpoint all that more easier. It was easy to hear through the grapevine that Sandpoint was going to have a festival to celebrate the inauguration of the new Sandpoint Cathedral, and he went there as a representative of the Magnimar Temple of Sarenrae.

Perhaps he was a paladin of Bharnarol, one of the Empyreal Lords. He was fascinated by alchemical inventions, but headstrong and did not heed the warnings of his god as he pursued a particularly dangerous formula (Pride). Another member of his sect seemed to find only favor in her inventions, no matter what she created, it was blessed and celebrated (Envy). Add the gall of his research being rejected to a latent attraction (Lust) and you have a moment where he smashed her laboratory (Wrath). Driven out of the sect, he continued his alchemical pursuits, delving into all manner of dangerous lore. Each new formula, each new drug or poison, led him unknowingly closer to the cult of Haagenti. Eventually, they found him and by then, his original motivation of seeking new knowledge and invention had been utterly replaced by self-perpetuating sin.

Just a thought.

This is very intriguing. I must elaborate on this. Thank you for your input.

So my favourite anime/manga series is Fullmetal Alchemist. One of the main enemy factions in my first homemade campaign is a Cult of Haagenti. So I figured: "Why not have some fun and base some of the enemies in the cult off of the homunculi of FMA?"

Now, these villains are not carbon copies of the homunculi. They can't be. But they can be seven major enemies for the PCs to fight as the campaign progresses. Off the top of my head, I already have four enemies checked off.

1) Lust: A Succubus. Most likely in need of tweaking in order to make unique, but I definitely have a role for a succubus in the narrative.

2) Wrath: An augmented Tyrannosaurus. One that has been subjected to Anthropomorphic Animal and Awaken, so it can have class levels in Barbarian.

3) Envy: This one was easy. A Doppelganger with class levels in Rogue/ Assassin, whose Change Shape ability works as Greater Polymorph due to some work performed on it by the Cult of Haagenti.

4) Pride: This one works as the pride of the Cult's leader. An antipaladin who has completed the first two rituals of Fiendish Apotheosis, and is about to initiate the third.

This leaves three enemies to fill out. Gluttony, Greed, and Sloth. I admit I am at a loss for what kind of enemies could be used to fill these roles. I have some ideas for Sloth, in that I feel something that causes physical erosion or advances the age of a target would be ideal. But I don't know of any creature or abilities that can produce the desired effect.

I always play Good characters, though they can be rough around the edges at times. Good is not soft, after all.

I play as males since that is my RL gender. I'm not wholly comfortable constantly trying to play as different gender identities.

I seem to favour the CHA stat. All of my characters have had at least 14 CHA as a starting score.

I like characters with at least proficiency with medium armour. I also like to have full BAB.

The only time I do the opposite is when I'm being the GM. But since I'm constantly going through character types, I consider it part of the fun.

The biggest problem I ran into while playing a paladin is that the group never sat down and clarified WHAT a paladin was supposed to be. The campaign went on for a year before the GM told me after a session I fell because I attacked a party member who was mentally dominated and going to slay a silver dragon (which was also mentally dominated into killing the party member)

The logic of the group was "Bros before Foes", but apparently, it was also my "third strike" according to the GM. Before this, I performed a coup de grace on a kobold that the party shaman put to sleep in the middle of combat, and I punched an urchin who was party to a bunch of pickpockets who stole the keys to Hell off of my person.

After all this was said and done, the group sat down, we had a long talk about what it means to play a paladin, and we all came to an agreement:

1)Whenever we start a new campaign, players and GM have to establish what constitutes a paladin's fall the game even begins.

2) Rather than the player having to interpret what the GM believes to be behaviour worthy of causing a fall (and for there to be a hidden counter against the player), the GM has to pause the narrative and warn the paladin player that their actions are grounds for a fall from grace.

That last rule has been expanded so that ANY action that is out of alignment is warned against before the deed is committed.

So I finally got around to doing my Aasimar Vigilante's new Identity. Making his Paizo debut, here is Night Talon.

Silver Talon would cover pretty much any bird of prey.

It could depend on why he's switching, too. If he's going for the symbolism of owls, he might become Wisdom's Vengeance or something.

It's more because he feels that his work with Lowells has stained his image and identity, so he wants to recreate himself.

I have not really done a lot of artwork lately. Most of my creative energy has been redirected into writing. Maybe posting here will jump start it. I have a lot of character designs I want to draw.

At any rate, I do have pictures done of the two PCs I've played recently.

My namesake and first real Pathfinder character.

My current Vigilante PC in Strange Aeons.

Due to how Strange Aeons is progressing, Silver Hawk is going to redesign himself as an Owl-themed Vigilante. Have the designs ready to be worked on digitally, but I do not have a new name for this identity.

One thing you can do if you want to be a ranged combat oriented paladin is to go with the Tempered Champion Archetype and be a paladin of Erastil or Abadar. The Archetype grants huge bonuses to a deity's favoured weapon. With Erastil and Abadar, that's the Longbow and Crossbow, respectively.

The Divine Weapon Specialization grants you the Warpriest's Sacred Weapon Ability, which scales your weapon damage as you level. Every five levels, the weapon increases by a damage level. If your weapon starts with 1d6 damage, by the time you hit level 5, it increases to 1d8. 1d10 at level 10, 2d6 at level 15 and 2d8 at level 20. Of course, if your weapon already does 1d8 or 1d10 damage, you have to wait a bit longer to benefit from the weapon scaling.

That's not counting the bonus feats that you get for swapping out your spellcasting. You can easily pick up Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, and Greater Weapon Specialization to give you a flat +2 to hit and +4 to damage on every attack.

And the final benefit is that the Archetype makes you take the Divine Bond for weapons. Which grants you enhancement bonuses and magical weapon properties to further enhance your damage. You can even get more uses of Divine Bond by getting the option to swap out a single use of Lay on Hands to get another use of Divine Bond.

I know for certain that the person who recruited me into the group loves my backstory. So if she's any indication of what the group is like, I should be good.

There was a naval battle wherein Valeros, Amiri and Lini happened upon the PCs ship as it was being attacked. The iconics helped out, the PCs were very appreciative, and the PCs even repaid them with a treasure map that the PCs didn't have time to investigate themselves. The important thing to remember, I think, is to make it so it's unclear who's the Npc in the relationship!

Was that a homebrew campaign or a part of Skull and Shackles?

Madokar Valortouched wrote:

So if I was to ever encounter Alain as an NPC, that would mean that the rest of Iconics could be in the campaign too.

Why? even comics, books, and stories generally don't feature more than a couple of them. The iconics aren't a league of adventurers that hang out with each other on a consistent basis... more like a group of acquaintences who occasionally cross paths in varying amounts... and some operate solo.

The only reason to include more of them is that you WANT them there for a story purpose, otherwise just leave them out.

Fair enough. I guess I should have phrased it as that there is the POTENTIAL for more Iconics to be in the same campaign. In a more meta sense, I guess it means that even if you only encounter one Iconic in your personal campaign, it sort of implies that the other Iconics are out in the world doing their own thing.

This is a thought that has been floating around my head lately. Mainly because I have this scenario in my head if I was ever playing a CG rogue that crossed paths with Alain Germande.

So if I was to ever encounter Alain as an NPC, that would mean that the rest of Iconics could be in the campaign too. Which brings me to my thread question. And if anybody had any inkling of how to interact with them, as either GM or player.

Hi Madokar, and thanks for both seeking to bring some diversity to your character background and also being aware it's potentially thorny, and asking for opinions!

I'm happy to tell you what I think but with the caveat that LGBTQ+ people aren't a monolith (just like all other minorities); one person may tell you 'this is fine' and another person may feel differently, etc. It's sometimes impossible to please Everyone, but the best you can do is listen and be respectful to anything that is said, etc.

My personal take is that this is a sweet portrayal of inclusivity and I'd see nothing wrong with it (though I'd issue a mild caution against referring to either parent as 'the father' - they're both the mothers, unless one of them identifies as male, which doesn't seem to be what you're going for. A lot of lesbian couples deal with the notion of 'well, who's the 'man' in your relationship, then?' - which may or may not match how they feel about themselves, one of them may be butch, or both, or neither-- but the assumption that someone needs to be 'the father', however mild an assumption, reinforces some gender roles that a queer couple may be uncomfortable with. This is pretty nitpicky, I'm just trying to advise you on all possibilities since you have sincerely asked for opinions on it.)

Your intentions seem good and I'd be happy to play at the table with the character you have described. Cheers for making a good faith attempt.

Part of why I ask these questions. The paladin mother was a bit more masculine but still identified as female. I suppose I identified the paladin parent as the father figure because she acted in that capacity. So I learned something today. Don't categorize same-sex parents with traditional parental roles unless they identify with the roles.

I recently joined a new campaign, and made an Aasimar (Angelkin) paladin. After reading over my copy of "Blood of Angels", a passage on Aasimar origins and births struck my fancy. It basically boils down to same-sex couples praying for children and being blessed with an Aasimar child. So I thought: what if my Aasimar paladin was born to a lesbian couple who wanted a child?

After all things like height, weight and age were calculated, my Aasimar paladin Ragathon (named after the Empyreal Lord Ragathiel) is 76 years old from Vigil in Lastwall. He's buried his birth mother after she's died of old age, and his second mother disappeared during a campaign in the Hold of Belkzen decades ago.

I see Ragathon's parents as being a paladin and cleric of Iomedae. With his birth mother being the cleric. I like the concept, but I'm a bit leery of using gay characters as my parents in my backstory. Mainly because I'm a straight white man born to straight parents and I worry about being insensitive to other groups.

Got a chance to talk to the GM for the first time this week. After realizing what my play style is like, he is going to allow me to play a paladin. So I'm going to take the opportunity to play a Tempered Champion paladin. Not sure of which faith I'll follow, but it's likely going to be either Iomedae or Sarenrae.

In regards as to why I'm not going to be a dedicated healer, the GM assured me that there was plenty of healer characters already. That, and he could always throw more healing items our way.

Madokar Valortouched wrote:

Bloodrealm wrote:

GM Rednal wrote:

In fairness, regular Atonement is not an unheard-of way to run Paladins. Heck, there's a prestige class - from Frog God Games, not Paizo, but still - that has the Justicars (basically super-Paladins) needing to get Atonement even if they didn't do anything wrong. XD Basically regular spiritual cleansing just to be absolutely sure.

Regular Atonements is a completely unfair and stupid way to run Paladins. It's just punishing someone for playing Paladin. They're not supposed to be the "hard mode" class; they're supposed to be THE good guys! If the GM wanted to run Paladins that way, they should have talked about it beforehand so that the player could choose not to play a Paladin with an idiot who hates Paladins.

We talked about that too. From now on, the group is going to be clear on how they view the paladin class before they start the next campaign. Regardless of who is going to be the GM. They all agree it's good policy to establish such things going in, as opposed to dropping it on a player halfway through the campaign.

I'm glad your group has managed to agreed to do that.

Personally, I'm considering running my first campaign using Rise of the Runelords. This group hasn't played it yet, and the GMs I know from PFS say that it's a good set of Adventure Paths to get your feet wet when it comes to being a GM.

So if I commit to it, I'll show them how I view alignment and class restrictions.

GM Rednal wrote:

In fairness, regular Atonement is not an unheard-of way to run Paladins. Heck, there's a prestige class - from Frog God Games, not Paizo, but still - that has the Justicars (basically super-Paladins) needing to get Atonement even if they didn't do anything wrong. XD Basically regular spiritual cleansing just to be absolutely sure.

Regular Atonements is a completely unfair and stupid way to run Paladins. It's just punishing someone for playing Paladin. They're not supposed to be the "hard mode" class; they're supposed to be THE good guys! If the GM wanted to run Paladins that way, they should have talked about it beforehand so that the player could choose not to play a Paladin with an idiot who hates Paladins.

We talked about that too. From now on, the group is going to be clear on how they view the paladin class before they start the next campaign. Regardless of who is going to be the GM. They all agree it's good policy to establish such things going in, as opposed to dropping it on a player halfway through the campaign.

Madokar Valortouched wrote:

Sadly, I am all the way up in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. Thanks for the offer, though.

well if you dont mind playing a lawful evil paladin of asmodeous you could come join my game

I'm not quite certain I'm in the mood to play any evil characters now or in the future. I find a sense of catharsis from playing Good aligned characters. It makes me feel better.

Thanks for the offer, though.

Madokar Valortouched wrote:

Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:

If you want ways to solve this w/o murdering people, you need to tell us more about the corruptions bit. How did you get them? Why did destroying the black blade restore the magus? How did he know it would?

We don't know the sources of the corruptions. They just started happening. And there was no indication that destroying the Black Blade would end the Magi's corruption. There was a whole chain of events that led to the Blade's destruction. I even made a thread that covered most of that mess.

After the Magus performed the ritual to get his Black Blade back, he was freed of the corruption, his Black Blade became a White Blade, and the Sword got a better disposition as a result. The Magus also has gleaned some knowledge about the corruptions by performing the ritual.

The Shaman is slowly becoming undead. He became gaunt (the GM specifically showed pictures of Holocaust survivors to give an idea of what the Shaman is looking like), developed a black ichor instead of blood, and now has no flesh on his forearms. As a result of the latest corruption for the Shaman, he now has a lich's Paralyzing Touch ability.

As for my paladin, he's developed Infernal/ Abyssal traits. At level 10, my paladin has large wings with 60 ft fly speed and poor maneuverability. There are other bonuses, like a +2 bonus to STR and CON, Acid Resist 15, Regen 5, and a +4 bonus to FORT saves to overcome Poison effects.

I'd play this corruption out and fall as Paladin rising and anti-paladin with wings. I would chaotic evil stupid, I'd go like Dexter as serial killer hunting bad guys enjoying the hunt and the kill. I'd roleplay out the struggle, resisting at first, then finding bad guys to kill, that might work for bit but soon I'd be killing them to survive and starting to enjoy it. Then turn to the darkside as curse progressed.

Could be that's cure though. Resisting to bitter end.

But I'm a paladin. I like being a genuine hero. So I have to find a way to purify the corruption.

If Trump wins...you just might very soon... :)

Doc Deth does give sound advice quite often I have noticed.

Part of the allure of roleplaying games is that you can escape from horrible things like Trump for a little bit.

Cellion wrote:

Talk to your DM outside of the game. Don't complain, likely your DM thinks this whole scenario is a brilliant idea and he not only won't understand your complaints but will take them as a personal affront. Instead, throw out your ideas on how you plan to approach things and ask about what kind of support you can expect.

For example, if (as people up-thread have suggested) you stick by your paladin vows and seek to do as much good in your remaining time before the curse claims you, talk to the DM about what you can accomplish and where to look for hints regarding overcoming the curse through relentless purity.

The DM has presented a seemingly inescapable dilemma to build up the narrative tension. From the Magus' tale, he wants this to be a major narrative upheaval, rather than just something needlessly cruel. After all, the Magus overcame their curse in the end and at least narratively is better off for it. In character: fight it and seek out aid amongst the allies of your god. Out of character: work with the DM to get hints on how to approach things; only your DM knows the potential ways out.

Also, with the facts as presented, trying to weasel your way around the restrictions is definitely against the spirit of being a Paladin of Iomedae.

Right sit down and talk to him like adults. Explain D&D is a Game, the idea of a Game is to have Fun, and you're not having Fun.

I'd say I'm very close to not having any fun. If he does something like this down the road, then it will be "three strikes, you're out" for him.

For those who don't get the "three strikes" thing, that was his logic for making my paladin fall. In order I:

Performed a coup-de-grace on a kobold that the Shaman put to sleep in the middle of a fight.

Punched an urchin for aiding in pickpocketing the Keys to Hell off my person to sell on the Black Market.

Using one strike of lethal damage against an ally while he was possessed and trying to kill a silver dragon.

He said that if I sought Atonement after each deed, then I wouldn't have fallen. Apparently I have to have Atonement cast on me on a regular basis.

Given your description of the corruptions, it sounds like the GM is going with a storyline like "lose something important, restore it (potentially at great cost), and come out ahead.

Given that Evil Outsiders and other enemies in combat don't activate the "Premeditated Murder Healing", I'm not sure how you would actually murder someone, or is there some other requirement I'm missing.

Has the magus revealed any of the information he gleaned from his ritual?

Given your corruption, you basically have a few options:

1) Die via the corruption (and maybe get resurrected) without succumbing to the murder hobo urge -- this might be your best option.
2) Succumb to the corruption, go on a murder hobo killing spree, atone and get your paladinhood back (somehow).
3) Fall, embrace your falling and become some sort of anti-paladin.
or
4) You could run with the Premeditated Murder part of the scenario and use Detect Evil and Smite as "judge and jury" and essentially go on a purge of all evil "innocent" creatures in the land.

Personally, I feel my best bet would be to fall on my blade. Like how Iomedae convinced the Black Prince to do in the Eighth Act of Iomedae.

Tyinyk wrote:

He already said it has to be a non-evil, non-combat death.
So, he basically has to murder someone who's not a bad guy in cold blood.

I'm with the others, your GM's a dick.

Well, he said "Evil outsiders and other enemies in combat will not activate the ability." I don't know if this captures the DM's intent, but "Evil outsider" is a different category than "Evil person." In that case, he could very well give a fair trial and a swift execution to a criminal (and maybe act as an Inheritor's Crusader in some respects).

Of course, if the DM is actually a dick, only a trip to your local orphanage will do.

The wording of the Premeditated Murder healing specifically states that I have to murder a sentient creature with an INT of 3 or higher. That puts a lot of different creature types up for grabs. But it's not the paladin thing to do, just going around killing to extend your own life.

Just die, showing you are above the effect of this corruption. Self-Perfection over your Affliction.

I have been contemplating following the Eighth Act of Iomedae:

The Eighth Act
Convincing the graveknight known as the Black Prince to throw himself upon his sword as punishment for his evil is considered Iomedae's Eighth Act. This righteous suicide redeemed the undead knight's soul and allowed him to be judged in the Halls of Aroden.

If I need to give my life to save others, then I readily make that sacrifice.

My GM set up a situation for the party. Various corruptions (not related to Horror Adventures) that have started to warp the party members into something... else. We managed to solve one of them. Due to circumstances, the Bladebound Magus had his Black Blade destroyed. This has removed his corruption, and he is more or less "whole" again.

That just leaves me and the Shaman left with corruptions. The Shaman is okay for now, aside from having no flesh on his forearms and a Paralyzing touch. But my Paladin now has a constant Life Drain effect that takes off 2 HP a day that can't be healed or regenerated normally. There is one way to overcome this. The GM has given my paladin the ability "Premeditated Murder Healing".

My paladin regains 1d8 HP for every sentient creature murdered with an INT of 3 or higher. This effect activates whenever my paladin directly murders someone or arranges a situation that causes someone's death in the presence of the paladin. Evil outsiders and other enemies in combat will not activate the ability.

My paladin is not about to become a serial killer. He has 140 HP at Level 10. That means he has 70 days to resolve this before he gets down to 0 HP. So I'm starting to feel a little pigeonholed at the moment.

Bloodrealm wrote:

Can we get this thread locked to prevent Quintain from reviving it with his constant s!!+posting?

I find your tears delicious.

Again, I find this to be very childish behaviour.

Rysky wrote:

Quintain wrote:

Madokar Valortouched wrote:

What source is that quote from? It's not in Iomedae's Paladin code from Inner Sea Gods.

It might be something that someone put together for Iomedae's code. I googled it without checking.

It is an example, however, of the difference between what is an legitimate authority and what is not.

No it's not.

Yes, it is. x1000 (I win).

Do you realize how childish that makes you sound?

I will just point out that it is entirely possible to respect a legitimate authority, while simultaneously smiting the ever-loving hell out of it.

Exactly. I RESPECT what a shark or a rattlesnake can do to me. Doesn't mean I'm about to say they make great pets. In fact, because I respect them, I learn how to keep them away from myself and people.

You respect your opponent. Doesn't mean you bend your knee to them. Everybody RESPECTS the power of Cheliax and their infernal masters. But not everybody is going to let them do whatever the Thrunes want.

Madokar Valortouched wrote:

The law is not tantamount to being right. That's what makes the difference between Lawful Good and Lawful Stupid. Any paladin worth their salt should choose the GOOD option when forced into a choice to be Lawful or to be Good.

With a little forethought and imagination, there should be no "forcing" to choose between what is lawful and what is Good. See the letters of mark, etc for smiting slavers, etc. As long as there is permission from a legitimate authority to perform said smitings, then you are clear.

If you happen to be in uncontrolled lands (no lawful authority), and you encounter a slaver, then you are free and clear as the tenants of your deity allow you to perform such smitings -- especially if you are questing to bring law and order to said chaotic lands.

Quote:

Paladins do not fall for Chaotic deeds. If they slide to Neutral Good, yes, they fall. But if you have to commit a Chaotic act because the Law is evil or broken, then it's perfectly acceptable action.

No, you must still atone for them. That is pretty much the definition of not acceptable. Paladins strive for perfection. Chaninging alignment to Neutral Good will remove paladinhood just as fast as sliding to lawful neutral.

Quote:

The main reasons for a paladin's fall are if they knowingly commit an evil act, perform a gross violation of the paladin code, or if they cease to be Lawful Good. Chaotic acts do not automatically shunt you out of your Lawful Good alignment if you respect and abide by the law and codes most of the time.

"Falling" means losing your paladinhood. (see above on alignment shifting). Falling, in common usage, is pictured as going evil. Changing from Lawful to Neutral Good is just as much "falling" as is going from Lawful Good to chaotic evil. It is just more "acceptible" to the goodly aligned people who look at the situation with less rigor than Lawful and Good deities.

Quote:

In regards to slavery, that is an evil

...

While it might be uneasy territory, it is necessary. For example, when I was in jail for being falsely accused of being the cult leader, there was some talk of me being executed. Now, I was innocent of the accusation. So if I was sentenced to death by a corrupt court, I was under no obligation to let them execute me. I would have to find a way to escape the jail and find a way to overturn the corrupt government.

Now, admittedly, that didn't happen. In the end, I got stuck with a Geas to clear a desecrated temple of Pharasma of undead. But I was prepared to fight the law if the law was broken or evil. In the end, I would rather fall to Neutral Good than Lawful Neutral.

The law is not tantamount to being right. That's what makes the difference between Lawful Good and Lawful Stupid. Any paladin worth their salt should choose the GOOD option when forced into a choice to be Lawful or to be Good.

Paladins do not fall for Chaotic deeds. If they slide to Neutral Good, yes, they fall. But if you have to commit a Chaotic act because the Law is evil or broken, then it's perfectly acceptable action.

The main reasons for a paladin's fall are if they knowingly commit an evil act, perform a gross violation of the paladin code, or if they cease to be Lawful Good. Chaotic acts do not automatically shunt you out of your Lawful Good alignment if you respect and abide by the law and codes most of the time.

In regards to slavery, that is an evil practice. It's in direct opposition to the concepts of "altruism, respect for life, and the dignity of sentient beings". The core beliefs of any good-aligned being. So if you are in a Lawful Evil land that practices slavery, you have a moral obligation to subvert the practice. You can do it subtlety, or overtly. But you have to fight it. Ignoring it constantly because it's the law is a neutral belief, and would slide you down to Lawful Neutral.

Just one last huzzah before this thread goes dead. I'm looking up the interpretations for alignment in the game, and I'm going to try to get a dialogue going before we sit down and play at the start of our next session on Monday.

Because it feels like I'm the only one who holds "altruism, respect for life, and a concern for the dignity of sentient beings" to heart right now.

Madokar Valortouched wrote:

I pointed out those very tenets. What I got for the trouble was "Then do it all to the random dragon."

When I argued that if I knocked the dragon out, it would leave a window for the Magus to execute the dragon. Which would make me an accomplice to murder, which would be worse than standing by and doing nothing.

What THAT got me was: "You never feared for the cultist's lives. They were gullible and persuaded to evil. You outright killed them? Frost Giants, goblins, you murdered a lot. Your argument is void.

You have little knowledge of the situation and you attacked an ally. I don't know how to say it any different. You made a bad call and are being punished. It's why playing a paladin is hard."

Dear Paladin of Iomedae:

You've killed a lot of chaotic evil creatures. When you saw two good creatures being forced to attack each other against their will, you subdued one to save them both, but drew some blood in the process. You're a bad person and I'm going to punish you. NO POWERS FOR YOU!

<3,
GM

...

Someone doesn't understand Paladins.

That's not even the end of it. Those goblins he mentioned? They were from the start of the campaign. They were attacking the starting village. Once we cut through the warriors of their den, we came to the women, children, and the elderly.

At which point, I sheathed my sword and ordered my companions to cease their attacks. We managed to convince the village to accept the goblin women, children, and elders to join the human village in an attempt to redeem the goblins.

The cultists? I managed to knock one of them out. Was going to interrogate him later. When the Paladins of Abadar show up, they execute him while he is unconscious. A quick heal check from paladin prevented the cultist from dying and earned my animosity with the local Abadaran church.

The frost giants were being led by a cleric of the Demon Lord Kostchtchie. They had amassed an army of winter-themed enemies and were seeking to summon Kostchtchie from the Abyss. Two of the winter enemies were a White Dragon, his kobold servants and an independent army of Ice Hobgoblins. The dragon begged me to free him. I found the sceptre that was binding the Dragon and the kobolds to the will of giants. I destroyed it. That got me a White Dragon and his Kobolds on my side while we dealt with the summoning of a Demon Lord.

The Hobgoblins? They were forced to work for the Frost Giants because the giants were holding their princess captive. We freed the princess and got an army of hobgoblins on our side. We marched on the giants and tore them asunder. The hobgoblins, the dragon and his kobolds all went their separate ways. Because hobgoblins, dragons and kobolds are peanuts to deal with when compared to a Demon Lord emerging from the Abyss. As part of our arrangement, the Hobgoblins, the Dragon and his kobolds all promised to relocate somewhere far away from civilization.

Madokar Valortouched wrote:

Eviljames wrote:

I'm curious about what happened to the dragon. You stopped the Magus from fighting, (which was good and not a reason to fall because "bros before foes," is nowhere on the paladin code and even if it was, you didn't kill him, you knocked him out.) But you never said what happened with the dragon. Presumably it was still attacking or was it incapacitated or killed by the rest of the party?

As soon as the Magus was knocked out, he dropped his Black Blade. At which point the dragon grabbed the Blade by her claws and destroyed it. This restored her to her senses and she stopped fighting.

After which, we entered a dialogue. The party bard made a run while everybody else was fighting to raid the dragon's hoard and stuff it all in the portable hole. Among the items was a platinum holy symbol of Sarenrae.

When asked as to why she had this item in her possession, she said it was part of her payment to guard the section of the temple we were in and to prevent intruders from heading deeper inside. She was paid by a vampire follower of Sarenrae, which opened a can of worms. As we talked, we were able to convince her to leave the temple after we gave her some of our treasure.

Now admittedly, this made her more of a mercenary than most silver dragons in the world. I chalked it up to her still being at a young age and she was trying to find her way in the world. At any rate, she was not evil, since she did not register as such when I still had Detect Evil. Even then, she gave us a good warning not to enter the chamber before the whole mess started, and she even tried to use nonlethal force on us before she was overtaken by her Black Blade.

Sounds like fun. Hopefully the loss of his Black Blade will restore some peace in the party.

Initially, I thought my fall was an attempt at restoring peace. That's not the case, but it was one of the first thoughts in my head.