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Klara Meison's page

619 posts (628 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 aliases.


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Mashallah wrote:
CKent83 wrote:
Mashallah wrote:
Charisma is a clear dump stat for virtually any Pathfinder class without Charisma-based class features, especially given how trivial it is to replace CHA with INT on skills. That, in my eyes, is poor design.

So what? If you want to say Ability Score consolidation is a bad thing, what about using Dex for Damage? Totally turns Str into a Dump stat, you'll never really need to have it on an optimized character. Instead of a greatsword, just have 2 swords and you're golden. Strength is a clear dump stat for virtually any Pathfinder class without Strength-based class features. That, in my eyes, is poor design.

I'm just ribbing you with that last part. Seriously though, there are plenty of classes that utilize Charisma, including my favorite class, The Paladin. Sure it has Charisma based abilities, but that also lets you put points into Skills that key off of Charisma so you can be more than a beat stick.

The truth is that not all Ability Scores are created equal. Some need classes that have abilities key off of them instead of being able to rely on core game mechanics. That's OK, because there are a lot of people that abhor any kind of dump stat. A friend of mine loves playing dwarves, but always has at least a 12 Charisma before racial modifiers so he never has a penalty. Personally, I've never used Charisma as a dump stat, but the next time I play a Ranger I will because I thought up a backstory that leaves him physically and mentally scarred and bitter.

Wow, that went on for a little longer than I thought it would. Apologies for the rant.

Mind you, I never said anything good about STR, either. I think STR is also poorly designed in this game.

CON, DEX, INT, WIS, are all useful for virtually any character (with a few edge cases that can make one or another of those stats redundant through class features). STR and CHA? Designated dump stats for almost everyone. Look at the Orator feat. Look at the Clever Wordplay trait. Outside of "I take CHA...

>there's no reason to ever have CHA above 7 if you don't have CHA-based class features.

Leadership.


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rooneg wrote:
rooneg wrote:
Brew Bird wrote:

For some builds, sure. But what's wrong with a class that might work best when the party is built to cooperate?

As Mark also said, there are other abilities that pack much more punch by themselves. We've seen one option from an entire class. I think it's a little early to be crying "underpowered" when no one even has the book yet.

Yes, this.

I mean I get it, there is limited information out there so it's super tempting to jump on whatever you get and make it THE THING to talk about, but maybe lets keep in mind that the game is hundreds of pages long, and looking at any bit of it out of context and then drawing conclusions is perhaps not terribly helpful.

So you're saying that abilities that provide cross-class synergies are bad if the other players don't build to take advantage of them? Umm, yeah. That's kind of how synergies work. If you're going to play a character who is made to synergize with other characters you're going to need another player who's interested in making that work and makes the appropriate choices when building their character. It takes two to tango, and that's a feature not a bug. If for some reason you aren't in a position to make that happen, maybe make different choices when building your character.

It would be best if your class feature could stand on it's own, and also provide synergies for the party.


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knightnday wrote:


Mashallah wrote:
Disclaimer that you forgot to add: that is purely your personal subjective opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
It goes without saying. Anything anyone is saying on the internet is their personal subjective opinion.

2+2=4


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And not letting the community see the whole picture supports fair, balanced and informed conversation?


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Ravingdork wrote:
Klara Meison wrote:
It's gear value goes straight out of your WBL, so you either both end up with s~+%ty gear, or your cohort ends up without any

Actually, it doesn't. Cohorts are built using the rules for NPCs, and NPCs start with their own gear. Sure you need to keep up as the game goes on, but from my experience, hand-me-down items are more than plentiful.

Klara Meison wrote:
Any time your cohort dies, you get -2 to your Leadership score. This is permanent. Literally nothing short of DM fiat could increase your Leadership score back up. This means that each cohort death permanently cripples your following cohorts.

This doesn't happen whenver your cohort dies. It happens whenever you are the direct cause of his death, such as when you murder them, or when you send them on known suicide missions.

Klara Meison wrote:
All of those taken together mean that your cohort will be way weaker* than you(and as such, a very attractive target in combat for your enemies) AND you get painful penalties for losing those. So, cohort will likely stay in camp all day.

As I said, there is usually no penalty for losing the cohort other than losing the cohort. What's more, it's pretty easy for a player with high system mastery to build a lower level cohort that is more powerful than the full-leveled character of another player with less system mastery. Heck, I've done this myself (unintentionally of course).

Klara Meison wrote:
But that also causes problems! Now BBEG could assault your cohort while you aren't there. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. You will have to let them tag around with you on adventures, but not let them get very close to scary dragons and such.

I think you are underestimating how powerful/useful a cohort can potentially be. And yes, they do make good plot hooks for the GMs sometimes.

Klara Meison wrote:
So what could they give you and the party? Well, crafting is one thing. Healing spells(Restoration and such) are another.
...

>Actually, it doesn't. Cohorts are built using the rules for NPCs, and NPCs start with their own gear.

NPCs don't get a lot of money in comparison to PCs. In this case, it will be something like 10% of your WBL, at best. That's... not much.

>hand-me-down items are more than plentiful.

I am not sure what you mean. Hand-me-down items would be included in your WBL, I imagine? You were using them at some point like just normal items, right?

>This doesn't happen whenver your cohort dies. It happens whenever you are the direct cause of his death, such as when you murder them, or when you send them on known suicide missions.

Well, I concede. If your cohort really really wants to go into combat and then dies, penalty won't be applied. But if you, say, ordered them to go into combat with you...

>I think you are underestimating how powerful/useful a cohort can potentially be.

Perhaps. I do think that restricting class selection to the less powerful options and building cohorts with a 3PB is enough to bring the feat down from ridiculous levels everyone seems to think it's at.


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It's not anymore broken than wish machines. You will get another person who is, at best, 2 levels lower than you, and a bunch of low-level mooks.

Mooks are pretty much just pure fluff, since they won't be of any use in combat. Cohort is more trouble than people make it out to be, and you probably wouldn't want to send it into combat, for the following reasons:

  • It's gear value goes straight out of your WBL, so you either both end up with s+%!ty gear, or your cohort ends up without any

  • It's at least 2 levels lower than you(and probably more, if you aren't maxing charisma), which means lower saves, HD and HP.

  • It is an additional party member, which means additional strain on whatever measures you are taking to protect the party(e.g. if you are traveling through a volcano, it means one more Resist Energy and Endure Elements)

  • Any time your cohort dies, you get -2 to your Leadership score. This is permanent. Literally nothing short of DM fiat could increase your Leadership score back up. This means that each cohort death permanently cripples your following cohorts.

All of those taken together mean that your cohort will be way weaker* than you(and as such, a very attractive target in combat for your enemies) AND you get painful penalties for losing those. So, cohort will likely stay in camp all day.

But that also causes problems! Now BBEG could assault your cohort while you aren't there. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. You will have to let them tag around with you on adventures, but not let them get very close to scary dragons and such.

So what could they give you and the party? Well, crafting is one thing. Healing spells(Restoration and such) are another. Long-term buffs could be helpful too. Overall, this would help you, but shouldn't directly unbalance any encounters during the day.

*Now, when I say that, it's not quite true. Some classes in pathfinder are just that good that they could live just fine without any gear(Wizard, I am looking at you). A way to balance that would be by restricting class options for the cohort, such as restricting it to only tier 3-5 classes, or even just NPC classes. And...that's all you need to do to bring it to reasonable levels, honestly. Mooks aren't even a consideration-what are they going to do, bring you coffee? Polish your boots while you sleep? Nothign broken about that.


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Her profile picture is actually Seoni under some weird lightning. As for pronouns, she has repeatedly stated she doesn't care which ones people use. I prefer she since it fits the avatar image.


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captain yesterday wrote:

She was banned for using and encouraging a negative, and combative environment towards Paizo.

It had nothing to do with gender.

She was becoming a bully.

I personally found her to be arrogant, dismissive, and rude, with a complete unwillingness to compromise or look at it from another angle.

> She was banned for using and encouraging a negative, and combative environment towards Paizo.

First of all, you are neither a mod nor quoting a mod, so you probably shouldn't make definite statements like this.

Secondly, if encouraging such an environment is an instant bannable offence, it should be mentioned in the damned community guidelines to prevent further incidents such as this.


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NenkotaMoon wrote:
But didn't they email Ashiel?

1. Ashiel wasn't the only one whose posts have been removed.

2. They only even mentioned removal after I specifically asked them about it on the website feedback forum. There was no notification of their deletion before that. Emails came even later, when Ashiel specifically asked for her posts to be emailed to her.


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>have included the removed posts from your account below

Funny how I recevided the exact same message, except it only contained one post out of 4-ish that got removed. Granted, it was the biggest one, but still.

Also, fight the power.

Uh, sorry, wrong link. I meant to say you can't kill an idea, they have a nasty tendency to resurrect.


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There are other forums which don't care what people discuss, like I think spacebattles or sufficient velocity. I have seen some things discussed there which I am not sure should be discussed anywhere, yet they are generally more or less fine as far as community is concerned.


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Kryzbyn wrote:
That GitP idea is sounding better and better.

I just so happened to read through their rules, and they don't allow discussion related to some topics that pop up in this thread from time to time(mainly Real-world politics (including political reactions to gaming) and Explicit sexuality). Don't know how much they police that place though.


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Who is the darth vader in your analogy?


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You should check it out. Amazing stuff.


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Have you ever read George Orwell?


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Prithee checketh thy private messages, thy highness lord Ashiel! Most wondrous things await thy there!


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Hello. Yesterday I had a nice discussion concerning adventure path design with some other members of the community. Today I find that that discussion has been removed in it's entirety, including my posts, and no notification related to the reasons behind the removal has been posted by the moderators in that thread or sent to my private messages.

Would it be possible to receive a clarification concerning that discusison in regards to what community guidelines in particular have been violated?


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Question to people other than Ashiel: how have you found this thread for the first time?


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I wonder what is the "fair" villain-to-hero ratio. 1 to 4? 1 to 2? Probably closer to 1 to 8 if villain is a goblin with a clan and heroes have to pass through it's lair.


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She could let some of us play the villains and let the problem sort itself out.


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Tels wrote:

On the topic of the Elixir...

Richard Magarey before elixir.
Richard Magarey after elixir.
And again...
This time, with music!

This is, essentially, what the elixir would do. Richard Magarey, better known for his crossdressing pro-wrestling persona of Lady Beard, is obviously recognizeable whether in "normal" clothing or in female clothing, just as he would be if he drank the elixir.

On the subject of multiple deities...

My issue with multiple deities is that such a thing can only happen with different cultures.

For example, in the Elder Scrolls universe, the different factions and races may worship gods under different names, but each one is still the same God. Lorkhan, for instance, is a God seen as a great hero of Men, but he is reviled by the elves for his part in the creation of Nirn. Why? Because Lorkhan tricked the Aedra into giving up part of their divine essence to create the planet Nirn. Some managed to stop the flow and retain most (but not all) of their divine spark and are worshiped as gods. Others were unable to do so, and began living on Nirn. These diminshed Aedra began procreating, and from them came the ancestors, the Ehlnofey, who would eventually separate and evolve into the Men and the Mer.

The races of Men hail Lorkhan as a champion of Men, for they would not exist without him. While the races of Mer, curse Lorkhan for stealing their divinity and rendering them mortal.

The different races and cultures of Elder Scrolls may use different names, and have different viewpoints, but they all worship the same gods. Akatosh, Auri-El, Alkosh are different names for the same being; the...

That's another reason I like Mythic. You could get very natural local gods that way, by just making them from powerful members of the community. And it means that PCs could actually kill a god without DM fiat and take their place.


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No, Wizard just isn't full BaB, there is no real way to turn him into one, and any other answer wouldn't have fit the theme.


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Icehawk wrote:
If I take their head off then dispel them, does it reattach?

Allow me to generalise that question. How do things map into one another when polymorphing? E.g. how many legs will a druid be missing if they were wildshaped into an octopus when they lost 5 tentacles?


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Ashiel wrote:
Hm, you could use polymorph any object to transform a person into a corpse temporarily, cast sculpt corpse, and profit?

Wouldn't that be permanent?


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Icehawk wrote:

I sorta have a different take on this stuff. To me it seems a little weird, depending where you are, that it is considered unusual.

One thing that the game has a lot of is shape shifters of various types and tokens. Tons of them. Never mind the illusionists and people with various items and so forth. The psychology of entities without a strong tie to a specific form is quite fascinating because of how hard it is for us to conceive of it.

Now obviously regions that don't have a strong magical presence probably would find it weird, but areas that do often have to share space with creatures from beyond mortality in every form that may take, as well as people who generally defy gravity and so forth. Probably becomes about as remarkable as every other crazy wizard who does things for reasons. Might not be conducive to true understanding, but it'd be less remarkable, particularly since compared to the guy who animates hedge animals it's on the grand scheme way less flashy.

But I definitely get the issue of Anevia and Irabeth. Anevia's origins just never came up for the pcs when I ran it. I didn't see a reason why she'd bring it up, and they never asked. Far as they cared, she's just a tomboyish girl who sleeps with the half orc lady who takes care of their city when they aren't there. They spent way more time wanting to get to know the CE Barbarian who surrendered to them in book 2 who I have absolutely no background information on and thus had to invent things for.

Honestly, they never seemed interested in any of the listed npcs and gravitated to any I had to invent. Well cept the demon lord anyways. Who always seems to end up more popular than Iomedae from the threads I read. Funny how that works out. You've no idea how many faithful of the succubus queen I've seen since I ran that now.

>Honestly, they never seemed interested in any of the listed npcs and gravitated to any I had to invent. Well cept the demon lord anyways. Who always seems to end up more popular than Iomedae from the threads I read. Funny how that works out. You've no idea how many faithful of the succubus queen I've seen since I ran that now.

You are surprised people gravitate to a "god, except with blackjack and hookers instead of praying"?

>Because you are recognizable as the same person and it gives no benefits when being disguised (not even a little circumstance bonus). :|

Yes, but they could still recognise your current gender, and that you have switched it, at least that's how I understand it.


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>grants no benefit on Disguise skill checks or similar checks.

It also grants no benefit on Disguise skill checks to be recognised as a different(i.e. former) sex. I should think it implies some degree of visual changes, at least enough to visibly change sex.


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Buri Reborn wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:
All classes are in the same section.

This honestly doesn't imply that. A buffet showcases all choices but doesn't infer the health content of a given dish.

kyrt-ryder wrote:
All classes are presented as comparavle choices.

Again, I don't see this stated anywhere, at least, not with your implication. They *are* comparable in the "what the pros/cons" sense of things.

kyrt-ryder wrote:
The Challenge Rating of a wizard or Druid is the same as a core chained monk oe rogue.

A given theme of the system is that, within a given CR, there can be large disparities of power. For example, CR 1 swarms immune to all weapon damage and any CR rank that contains a casting and non-casting creature.

kyrt-ryder wrote:
There is no warning anywhere in the PH: MAGIC IS STRONGER THAN MUSCLE, CHOOSE NONCASTING CLASSES AT YOUR OWN PERIL. When there should be.
I don't think this is so black and white. Such a warning would be disingenuous. Yes, there are plenty of cases where that's true. However, the barbarian and monk are quite formidable without needing spells.

>A buffet showcases all choices but doesn't infer the health content of a given dish.

Hmm, let's test that. Suppose I were a new player who had no idea what dnd even was before, and all I knew about fantasy were films and cartoons I have watched and books I have read. I open the CRB and try to select a class for myself, and let's say that I want to go for a basic hero concept, the sort that slays dragons, saves princesses and defeats evil warlocks. I read the class role descriptions, and see this:

mysterious CLASS 1 wrote:
CLASS 1 excel at combat—defeating their enemies, controlling the flow of battle, and surviving such sorties themselves. While their specific weapons and methods grant them a wide variety of tactics, few can match CLASS 1 for sheer battle prowess.
mysterious CLASS 2 wrote:
More than capable of upholding the honor of their deities in battle, CLASS 2 often prove stalwart and capable combatants. Their true strength lies in their capability to draw upon the power of their deities, whether to increase their own and their allies' prowess in battle, to vex their foes with divine magic, or to lend healing to companions in need. As their powers are influenced by their faith, all CLASS 2 must focus their worship upon a divine source. While the vast majority of CLASS 2 revere a specific deity, a small number dedicate themselves to a divine concept worthy of devotion—such as battle, death, justice, or knowledge—free of a deific abstraction. (Work with your GM if you prefer this path to selecting a specific deity.)
mysterious CLASS 3 wrote:
While some CLASS 3 might keep to the fringe of battle, allowing companions and summoned creatures to fight while they confound foes with the powers of nature, others transform into deadly beasts and savagely wade into combat. CLASS 3 worship personifications of elemental forces, natural powers, or nature itself. Typically this means devotion to a nature deity, though CLASS 3 are just as likely to revere vague spirits, animalistic demigods, or even specific awe-inspiring natural wonders.
mysterious CLASS 4 wrote:
While universalist CLASS 4 might study to prepare themselves for any manner of danger, specialist CLASS 4 research schools of magic that make them exceptionally skilled within a specific focus. Yet no matter their specialty, all CLASS 4 are masters of the impossible and can aid their allies in overcoming any danger.

These 4 class discriptions were made up by me on the spot, any and all correlations with the ones in the CRB are entirely coincidental.

Now, I have no idea how Pathfinder works, how it plays, what is a good idea and what's not. So I think to myself "O boy! CLASS 1 sounds perfect for my idea! I bet CLASS 2 through 4 couldn't hold a candle to me in a fight!". So I pick CLASS 1 (let's call it freighter), play, and lo and behold, it can't hold a candle to classes 2 through 4 in a fight, who just cast "Annihilate Nuissance". I get sad. Whoops, should have been psychic to know what was a trap option beforehand somehow!


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Eh, whatever.

What do your characters ususally drink whenever they want to crash in a tavern for a while? Tea, coffie, ale?


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Ashiel wrote:
Klara Meison wrote:

From another thread:

Ashiel wrote:
Klara Meison wrote:
Wrath of the Righteous:"Huh? Wait, what? Where am I? What am I doing here? Who are you? How did I get here?" "WRONG ANSWER!!!" CHOOO CHOOO CHOO CHOOO
I still intend to run this at some point. I just need to Frankenstien it before I'll do it.
It's Mythic. Don't you hate Mythic?

Yes. Which is why I need to gut and restuff a lot of it. It's not just the mechanics that I want to revise, a lot of it are the NPCs in places. Sarenrae the tyrant would need some changing, the token transsexual-lesbian couple in the beginning of the game would need to be heavily revised before I would include them in a game, etc.

Funny thing is, I really like some parts of Mythic, and seriously dislike others. The whole "This %thing% completely annihilates creatures who do not posess mythic ranks, no save, but allows a save to those who do" thing seems rather unnecessory, for one. Some spells and abilities jump the shark in terms of sheer power(e.g. mythic Time Stop. Is there anything a party with an Archmage capable of casting that can't do?) Other abilities, on the other hand, seem pretty neat and fitting the whole "we are now gods incarnate" theme. Being practically unkillable is one of those, granting spells to people who believe in you your fanbase is another.


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From another thread:

Ashiel wrote:
Klara Meison wrote:
Wrath of the Righteous:"Huh? Wait, what? Where am I? What am I doing here? Who are you? How did I get here?" "WRONG ANSWER!!!" CHOOO CHOOO CHOO CHOOO
I still intend to run this at some point. I just need to Frankenstien it before I'll do it.

It's Mythic. Don't you hate Mythic?


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Wrath of the Righteous:"Huh? Wait, what? Where am I? What am I doing here? Who are you? How did I get here?" "WRONG ANSWER!!!" CHOOO CHOOO CHOO CHOOO


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Ashiel wrote:

That's a fair point. Feather tokens are conjuration-based magic items so it would be fair to just not have them do anything when inside a creature, so I might need to revise my view on it (btw, this is how I talk with my players too, so if I make a bad call we can discuss it and fix it later).

I'm pretty sure this question would come up with an instant fortress as well (it literally causes damage from its expansion and requires a save to avoid suffering commoner-dusting levels of damage just from getting hit by its expansion).

>it would be fair to just not have them do anything when inside a creature

On the other hand, I like the idea of expanding trees being used as a counter to being swallowed. Or, at least, expanding something. You would probably make a permanent version to be something less clumsy, like a small box with a couple buttons for different size settings that unfolds into a Czech hedgehog-looking thingy made of steel or adamantium.


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To be fair, based on standard conjuration rules, tree token just wouldn't work if there wasn't enough space for a tree.

CRB wrote:
A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.

Also

> If the tree wouldn't fit (the creature was less than colossal size) then I'd probably have it rupture them, immediately inflicting enough damage to burst out of their bodies, and inflict 1d6 Constitution damage and subsequent bleed per size category too large.

That just makes me think that every adventurer ever will carry a couple of those and try to feed them to enemies. Especially in d20Legends, since I believe you united strength and constitution, making this twice as painful. "Feeding a tree" would be a very potent tactic.


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Tels wrote:
Best place for a large oak to appear? Right inside the stomach of the purple worm that just swallowed me.

That would just cause that worm to gain Paladin levels, which seems to be counter to your intentions. Probably a lot of them, too, that stick is a big one.


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Klara Meison wrote:

>Fireball has a 30 foot radius blast, and will ALWAYS affect the same amount of space.

So do you always increase it to a 37.5 burst whenever it is cast at the floor(such as on an open plane) instead of high into the air(where it wouldn't be affected by such pesky things like floors redirecting the explosion)? Fireball is a sphere, after all. 3-dimensional.

>With it then being described as a radial burst via the spell description, 'spread' is taken to mean that it'll still fill the full area of effect, but spread out to fit the environment.

Area, not volume? That's the weirdest half-measure I have seen so far.

>I'd personally rule it doesn't go around corners

So it works like a conventional explosion, except for this pesky diffraction thing, where it works like magic again? If you are going to go with fireball being a physical explosion, may as well go all the way. Add pressure wave effects, make it throw things around and reposition people. Add thermal effects, make arrows flying over the area where fireball was cast suffer -1 to -3 to attack rolls due to hot air rising and affecting their flight. Calculate how the heat of the fireball is going to fall off as it expands, dealing more damage to targets closer to the center and almost none to those far away. Crack some math and add explosion inhibition effects from water in the air, making the spell deal less damage in humid environments.

I mean, go big or go home, am I right?

I just did some math, and a 30ft radius burst comes down to 905 5ft cubes. Damn that's some fine cannon material if difraction isn't a thing-make a 10 by 5 by 5 corridor with a wall in the end aimed at the enemy, throw a fireball inside, enjoy our mile-long shot of fire laser.


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If someone dropped a tree token under a creature, what would happen and how damaged would that creature end up?


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>Fireball has a 30 foot radius blast, and will ALWAYS affect the same amount of space.

So do you always increase it to a 37.5 burst whenever it is cast at the floor(such as on an open plane) instead of high into the air(where it wouldn't be affected by such pesky things like floors redirecting the explosion)? Fireball is a sphere, after all. 3-dimensional.

>With it then being described as a radial burst via the spell description, 'spread' is taken to mean that it'll still fill the full area of effect, but spread out to fit the environment.

Area, not volume? That's the weirdest half-measure I have seen so far.

>I'd personally rule it doesn't go around corners

So it works like a conventional explosion, except for this pesky diffraction thing, where it works like magic again? If you are going to go with fireball being a physical explosion, may as well go all the way. Add pressure wave effects, make it throw things around and reposition people. Add thermal effects, make arrows flying over the area where fireball was cast suffer -1 to -3 to attack rolls due to hot air rising and affecting their flight. Calculate how the heat of the fireball is going to fall off as it expands, dealing more damage to targets closer to the center and almost none to those far away. Crack some math and add explosion inhibition effects from water in the air, making the spell deal less damage in humid environments.

I mean, go big or go home, am I right?


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If you are going to deal with Pun Pun, you need to stat deities too, there is just no way around that. Because Pun Pun can do whatever it is they can do, and possibly more. In basic pathfinder, deities aren't statted because they are orders of magnitude above whatever you could do, which would no longer be the case.


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Ashiel wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Why wouldn't you follow that FAQ?

Because DR explicitly only works against normal attacks and spells explicitly ignore it.

Core Rulebook wrote:

Damage Reduction

Some magic creatures have the supernatural ability to instantly heal damage from weapons or ignore blows altogether as though they were invulnerable.

The numerical part of a creature's damage reduction (or DR) is the amount of damage the creature ignores from normal attacks. Usually, a certain type of weapon can overcome this reduction (see Overcoming DR). This information is separated from the damage reduction number by a slash. For example, DR 5/magic means that a creature takes 5 less points of damage from all weapons that are not magic. If a dash follows the slash, then the damage reduction is effective against any attack that does not ignore damage reduction.

Whenever damage reduction completely negates the damage from an attack, it also negates most special effects that accompany the attack, such as injury poison, a monk's stunning, and injury-based disease. Damage reduction does not negate touch attacks, energy damage dealt along with an attack, or energy drains. Nor does it affect poisons or diseases delivered by inhalation, ingestion, or contact.

Attacks that deal no damage because of the target's damage reduction do not disrupt spells.

Spells, spell-like abilities, and energy attacks (even nonmagical fire) ignore damage reduction.

So the FAQ is outright lying.

The damage type of a spell still affects or could affect other things. For example, if you damage certain ooze monsters with a spell that deals slashing damage the ooze can split because it activates their "slashing damage" stuff.

It would make for a sensible errata, honestly. I don't see why a spell that creates a spear that stabs an enemy would have different effects from a fighter stabbing an enemy with a spear. It's still ultimately a sharp stabby thing that affects the enemy, right?


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Vidmaster7 wrote:
so you would have to do the game about a more gradual pun pun emerging like maybe hes slowly changing universes you can say its taking so long cause of conversions or you know since there is no real rules for something like that just say it takes time and is gradual and then you can say he was weakened by the rules shift then let the players break out all the cheese they can I wouldn't want to run it but i would play

It has to happen fast, otherwise I really see no reason why gods wouldn't intervene. If it takes a day then "we had no idea before it was too late" is at least a sensible explanation.


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Pun Pun's problem is that if you let him achieve The Ultimate Cheese and he is at least somewhat smart, he is literally undefeatable. He could monitor everything that happens on every plane and immediately intervene if he notices anything that could harm him(like, another Pun Pun manifesting or high level adventurers). It takes him about a day to go from "just a kobold" to "F~~! You", so you really have to already be mostly ready before it happens.

That in turn means that an adventure about Pun Pun has to be about something other than Pun Pun for 95% of the playthrough.

In 3.5 it really is quite easy. Make another Pun Pun(simulacrum), get a drop on the original(pump initiative higher than original's and add some sort of dimensional travel shenanigans), touch him(touch attack, so boost your DEX higher than the original's. You'll need it for the previous step too), reverse his cheese(he can't be immune to the Manipulate Form ability, otherwise his cheese doesn't work, so just pump your DC higher than his FORT save and you are golden), enjoy your victory.


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You could get Simulacrum as a SLA, increase your CL to arbitrary levels through one of the popular means, then make a Simulacrum of Pun Pun and turn yourself into his copy using the same cheese he used in the first place.

But since PunPun isn't from pathfinder, you would have to make some sort of conversion, which will affect how defeatable he is.


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>What can I do to make my boss hated?

Make them kick a puppy in full view of the party. For extra evil points, let it be the familiar or animal companion of this evil dude, which then gets up and follows it's master, it's head low to the ground.

Stealing credit is also a great idea. If PCs come from a quest only to find out that their reward was given to some other person, it gets personal.


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Kahel Stormbender wrote:

Swoosh, I'm willing to say that dealing slightly less damage then an arcane lobbing their damage spell of preference at a given level is a pretty good trade off. After all, a kineticist can make this attack all day long. Especially when you can then tack on other effects. Such as "save or lose your hearing", or a 15 foot cone in addition to the base blast, or the blast jumping from target to target, having extra range... You get the idea.

Also, not sure how you're thinking a damage caster is gonna optimize their spell damage any more then a kineticist could. Metamagic feats? Kineticist can do that too. Higher save DC? Kineticists can do this as well.

And a wizard could add "daze for like 5 rounds" on top of their damaging spell of choice. Point?

Mashallah wrote:
Kahel Stormbender wrote:

Swoosh, I'm willing to say that dealing slightly less damage then an arcane lobbing their damage spell of preference at a given level is a pretty good trade off. After all, a kineticist can make this attack all day long. Especially when you can then tack on other effects. Such as "save or lose your hearing", or a 15 foot cone in addition to the base blast, or the blast jumping from target to target, having extra range... You get the idea.

Also, not sure how you're thinking a damage caster is gonna optimize their spell damage any more then a kineticist could. Metamagic feats? Kineticist can do that too. Higher save DC? Kineticists can do this as well.

A level 10 sorcerer can deal around 250 damage in AoE in one round with two fireballs. If you want, I can provide the build.

I think Kineticists get nowhere near that.
Moreover, being "ALL DAY" does you no good as the adventuring day usually ends as soon as the party casters are out of slots and demand rest, making at will abilities utterly irrelevant when comparing classes.

In my experience, health points of martials run out faster than spell slots.

Things I like that other people don't:going offtopic.


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Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Trekkie90909 wrote:
Seeing KC post makes me wonder how the discussion has gotten this far without discussing everyone's favorite kobold.

Pun-Pun was never actually a PC, though, just an idea. I tried to start a little "adventure" to examine the deep backstory and character qualities of Pun-Pun, but nobody played it. ;P

I would like to run a game someday where everybody plays their own "crazy OP build" (like Arkalion, maybe a mage who exploits demiplanes, etc) from level one, though. Towards the end, they learn that their true enemy is none other than the overgod Pun-Pun, and they will need to find a way, pooling all their Mad OP Skills, to take him down.

Sign me up.

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