Wait, why don't we just allow an Investigator to modify his sneak attacks the same way an Alchemist modifies his bombs... via a discovery system.
It makes sense and plays into the investgator idea. Things like concussive bombs and confusion bombs work wonderfully with sneak attack.
This way, an Investigator can apply multiple effects to multiple opponents, only one disabling type per day, ex:Only blind a person once, but then confuse that same person next round, depending on the duration etc., if duration is an issue. He does not need anything more than a feint or a dex-disabling ability being applied beforehand etc.
This will allow the investigator to keep lesser amount of sneak attack damage, keep the alchemist style and give disabling effects all at the same time. The best part is that the power can be determined by level the same way as discoveries.
What does everyone think?
The more i think bout this,the more i realise that we are trying to make up a damaging ability that should be for the base Investigator class only.
There is a lot of room to play with archetypes for this class.
Some examples. This class is partially based on many different fictional characters.
Let's take Dr. Who. Dr. Who used his "Sneak Attack" to mostly do damage to structures and inanimate objects, such as space ships and world-killing devices. He could almost be a cross between a mindchemist and a rogue. He definately picked pockets, disabled devices and had about all knowledge skills.
Let's take Sherlock Holmes. Is he an example of the base class or an archetype? It depends on which one we are talking about. They are both smart, but Elementary's Sherlock uses mostly deduction and trial and error, while Sherlock uses the same ammount of deduction, but most of it is in his head.
RDJ's Sherlock could almost be a vivisectionist version of said character. He seemed to constantly use knowledge of martial arts to break down his opponent till he could disable him/her.
Now, mystery theater's Jeremy Bret, one of the best Sherlock's ever, was a good mix of all the above. He didn't have big budget special effects and such, but was a goo boxer and knew self defense,while experimenting with drugs often. It was there taht i learned SherlockHolmes was a Cocaine and opium user.
Now look at Hercule Poirot. All social skills with no fighting. He has no constitution to speak of and finds his killer by being polite and excercising his "little grey cells".
So, are we trying to determine a base class's functional way of doing damage or are we focusing on too many aspects at once?
The fight scene thatwas just described in VastlyApparent's post is known as compounding in martial arts.
Another example would be to punch or kick a man in his floating ribs to break them, then knee those same ribs to break them off and, hopefully, shove them into his ribs. While this will hurt a man, it may not guarantee death. You must then either punch/knee/elbow to the solar plexus, then elbow/punch to the throat.
The above will leave a man with a lung filling with blood, unable to draw air in through his mouth as his airway will be swollen shut and drawing in as much blood through that opening in his lung.
That is what the movie fight scene simulates, but it's a bit less fatal.
This type of thing can be done in many ways within a game system, but it's a bit late to go into that now. Will post again tomorrow.
All of the above seems to be true.
The point to all this is that it's very similar to an inquisitor needing to use his knowledge skill to identify a monster, then use his bane against that creature type.
The difference is that an Investigator is Int-based.
Interstingly enough, his formulae list is mostly self-buffs, kinda like the Inquisitor.
Compare the static bonus to an Inquisitor's 2d6 (Avg. 7) damage at lvl 5 and 4d6 (Avg.14) at level 12 and you can see that they are very similar.
Also note that while an inquisitor has Judgements to help with to hit,damage etc., an Investigator has Inspirations to help with the same things.
Maybe this is not the perfect answer, and may need some tweeking, but this is a solid beginning to finding a good answer that fits a concept of this class.
More input please. This is here to brainstorm ideas. Let the Lightning and Thunder begin!!!
Batman may not be the best example of an investigator.
I want the class to have a martial arts as well, but it's more of a gentlemanly martial arts. A martial arts that represents the knowledge of a doctor, of sorts, with the appropriate knowledge of which area's of the body are weaker than others, how to compound an injury etc...
If anything, this martial arts should be tied to the Heal skill as it was an art of learned men.
I like the bomb idea for sneak attacks, I like the idea of using Inspiration to, perhaps, allow Prescient Attack or Defense.
There are many ways of going about this. I hope we get some feedback from a Dev on which coarse of action is planned, or how they plan on going about implementing some of this. We can then move on and work toward completing this class.
I love the concept though. It's so me.
The more i think on it, the more the movies seemed to use this method.
Prescient Attack (Su)
Prerequisite: Magus 6
Benefit: The magus can expend 1 point from his arcane pool as an immediate action after hitting a target with a weapon attack, allowing him to anticipate his opponent’s defenses. The target is denied its Dexterity bonus against the magus’s attacks until the end of the magus’s next turn.
Prescient Defense (Su)
Prerequisite: Magus 9
Benefit: The magus can expend 1 point from his arcane pool as an immediate action after hitting a target with a weapon attack, granting him a premonition of his enemy’s intentions. The magus gains a bonus to his AC and on Reflex saves equal to his Intelligence modifier (minimum 0) against attacks by that opponent until the beginning of his next turn.
Replacement Powers: The following school powers replace the diviner’s fortune and scrying adept powers of the divination school.
Prescience (Su): At the beginning of your turn, you may, as a free action, roll a single d20. At any point before your next turn, you may use the result of this roll as the result of any d20 roll you are required to make. If you do not use the d20 result before your next turn, it is lost. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.
Foretell (Su): At 8th level, you can utter a prediction of the immediate future. While your foretelling is in effect, you emit a 30-foot aura of fortune that aids your allies or hinders your enemies, as chosen by you at the time of prediction. If you choose to aid, you and your allies gain a +2 luck bonus on ability checks, attack rolls, caster level checks, saving throws, and skill checks. If you choose to hinder, your enemies take a –2 penalty on those rolls instead. You can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to your wizard level. These rounds do not need to be consecutive.
But it seems that a good way of duplicating the movies is by adding the below spell to the investigator's list.
Moment of Prescience
School divination; Level sorcerer/wizard 8, witch 8; Domain luck 8, memory 8
Casting Time 1 standard action
This spell grants you a sixth sense. Once during the spell's duration, you may choose to use its effect. This spell grants you an insight bonus equal to your caster level (maximum +25) on any single attack roll, combat maneuver check, opposed ability or skill check, or saving throw. Alternatively, you can apply the insight bonus to your AC against a single attack (even if flat-footed). Activating the effect doesn't take an action; you can even activate it on another character's turn. You must choose to use the moment of prescience before you make the roll it is to modify. Once used, the spell ends. You can't have more than one moment of prescience active on you at the same time.
All are great methods of working that sixth sense into combat.
So, i have a question to ask those participating in this discussion.
What do we expect the investigator to do in combat?
I understand that we want him to be able to handle himself in a combat situation, and believe that should be a standard for every class.
Do we want the investigator to take out the minions? take out the main badguy?
Do we want him to debuff others in combat, making it easier for the rest of the team to remove the threat?
We need more clarity on what we expect the investigator to actually do in combat.
What seems to be the most interesting is that the martial arts that we have seen in the the Sherlock Holmes movies, and, indeed the one mentioned in Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's books is indeed Bartitsu.
Here is a quick link to a wikipedia source.
So, if we are to emulate the martial arts, why not just create a new "style" similar to Kirin etc.
Also, look it up on youtube. You will see some demonstrations there.
Point buy 20pt.
I viewed it as something he trains in very heavily, maybe, even, exclusively in the case of a kensai.
The sword becomes his daily reminder of his duty to train with it.
One day he hopes to return it, after using it to kill all the rest of that family, through the gut of the last of that family's line.
Hehe, that seems very cliche, but it's a theme that has existed throughout history.
At this point i was pretty much shot down.
I agreed to the to epic part and changed the Aunt Mara encounter to a meetng with a priestess rather than Besmara.
The outline of the rest was going to be as follows:
Part 3 will include the moving of Kaito and Mizuki to a smaller home atop the cliffs near the ocean.
Kaito will be knocked into the ocean from an explosion that weakens the mother.
Kaito survives with only the katana or wakizashi of his family's enemies.
Part 4 will be about the crew of the Pirate ship The One-Eyed Otter.
Kaito will piss off the Leutenant and the Dragon-Lady, by saving a new woman from their clutches and setting her free.
He will be beaten almost to death, but will call in his favor from his Aunt Mara.
He will force the Dragon-Lady ( via threat of unleashing Aunti Mara on her again ) to hire the finest swordsman to train Katio while the Dragon-Lady herself will teach Kaito how to unlock his heritage and hidden gifts of magic.
Special note: Kaito's debt will be repaid to Mara in this manner " In Life or in Death, Auntie Mara, I will repay my debt when and where you call me."
As far as race, i was not sure if it'd be a Human with Draconic blooded trait or a Sylph ( as Sylph are very cole in racial abilities to the imperial dragons.)
I would normally ask to play a Cabalist, which is a 3rd party Magus archetype, but my DM is adamantly against anything 3rd party.
As far as Archetypes. The kensai fits well, but the hexes of a hexcrafter also fit amazingly well. Evil eye, Healing, Nails(Claws), Tongues, Weather control, Storm of vengeance ( at high levels); all these hexes fit the Tien_Lung also known as an Imperial Sky Dragon well.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
That's all i have at the moment. It seems like he's either a Draconic bloodline Sorc or something else.
I did have an image of him holding a sword in one hand while shooting lightning from his other.
Maybe a magus just doesn't fit because it's more of a racial bloodline thing. not sure where to go from here.
I never mentioned, this is for a Skulls and Shackles game... ug, long day.
My DM called it, and i believe he was right, in stating that this gets a bit too prophetic and starts to create a predestined path for th character.
The prophetic stuff will be included, just for the story, but the whole Auntie Mara thing could easily be changed to the interference of a priestess, rather than a goddess, please excuse that aspect when reading the below.
Aunt Mara Kaito Age 12.
Many years had passed since that day and not many words were spoken.
Mizuki's (Kaito's mother) heritage has been believed to be one of those strengthened ties. Her great-grandfather, Tsuyoshi, seemed to come from nowhere and married into her royal family with no questions asked nor answers given.
A family legend stated that he was once challenged to a duel by an impetuous young man. He promptly refused and politely tried to talk the man down. This poor soul would have nothing of the sort as he insulted Tsuyoshi, his wife Hanako, and their whole family repeatedly. Three times Tsuyoshi excused the man for being misguided and perhaps drinking a little too much, three times the man insulted again and the insults got worse as he spoke.
Finally Tsuyoshi knew he had no way of walking away with his honor intact. It was said that Tsuyoshi drew his sword with one hand and crushed the mans skull with his other hand. The young fool never stood a chance.
Kaito's father, Katsuo, was a commander in his Lord's army. A landowner by birthright; he was a strong man with great intellect. Many of the women seemed to blush in his company, including Mizuki, so Kaito figured his Dad, must be considered attractive.
Their life was boring as Kaito lived mostly with his mother. Katsuo spent most of his time away from home as his duties kept him away in service of the army and the Emporer. Kaito spent his days studying and his nights daydreaming of the Dragon Festival.
Tensions around the home began to slowly become more and more noticeable as Mizuki recieved more and more letters from Katsuo.
When asked, Mizuki simply stated that their family has many enemies. "Trust Katsuo and he will keep us safe from harm." was Mizuki's usual response.
One day,while in the gardens, Kaito couldn't handle it anymore. He fell to his knees as the tears began. He needed to be free. With head to the ground he prayed for release from this prison.
Suddenly, he heard a rustling in the bushes behind him. He turned to look and there stood a beautiful red-haired woman in a traditional Japanese outfit.
Her stride was unlike anything Katio had seen. Her hips swung in what Kaito would consider an almost vulgar manner, if it wasn't so attractive. While walking, she kept her hand on her hip as if carrying a man's sword.
"Sit." She stated as she patted the bench. Kaito did as he was told.
Young Kaito did not know how to respond. There was nothing he truly owned besides his toys from his youth.
"I am in a generous mood kid, I'll tell you what. Let's make a deal. Your family is about to be in a lot of trouble soon enough. I will help you when you call for me and you will owe me one." Mara responded with a grin.
"Owe you one what? What trouble? What are you talk..." But Kaito was quickly cut off.
Kaito looked up and saw that her hair had fallen. She was the most beautiful woman he had ever seen in his entire life. He tried to speak, but found that she was looking down below Kaito's waste.
Kaito snapped to as his mother entered the garden.
This is the 1st of about 3-6 stories I had written about this character's background.
This is an odd way of telling a story, but much of it will appear in flashbacks of his youth.
Flashback #1 Kaito age 6 The Dragon Festival
Scene opens with many men and women dressed in traditional formal Japanese and Chinese outfits.
"The festival is about to begin, quickly quickly, we must hurry!" came the cries of Mr. Koyushi. "Your places are saved, we must go or we will miss it."
The wind swept up the second they opened the door. The clouds had a dark blue-grey color and the wind smelled of rain. This was going to be a huge storm, Kaito could feel it.
The Festival of the Dragons is an event that has traditionally been held at the top of the highest mountain where the land touches the sky. Many Noble and Honored families had been invited to attend. This event was a secret and something that only occurs once every 50-100 years.
As they Climbed the last step to reach the meeting place, Kaito could see many adults gathered in a circle, no children save himself. Some party, Kaito thought.
Above the wind, Kaito could hear a low humming as the circle began their chants. Looking to his mama for support, he noticed that she was staring up at the clouds as she chanted. Kaito's eyes turned to the dark clouds overhead, only to notice something peculiar. The clouds had eels in them that were dancing and writhing about.
Then came the roar of something that could only be described as scary and threatening beyond words.
That's when Kaito noticed something strange about his mama. Her hair, while whipping in the wind, started to change color. It turned a silvery-white, like the lightning in the sky. This forced Kaito to look around to see if she was the only one this was happening to, but it was not. Almost everyone's hair was turning that same lightning color.
It was then that one of the eels descended from the sky, only it was not an eel, it was just like the dragons in the story books. This Dragon separated itself from the clouds and began shifting and circling, like the sea lions swimming in the oceans. The motions turned more and more violent as if the creature was in pain. Kaito reached out his hand and started to step forward to help, only to be stopped by his mother's hand as she remained in a trace-like state.
Kaito was getting more and more excited and couldn't help but jump in place as the dragon continued it's writhing sky-dance.
Then lightning struck, loud and close, only it wasn't striking the ground, it was striking the skies. Kaito shook with excitement as he saw all the members of the circle were standing straight as arrows with lightning shooting from their bodies and into the sky. This formed a ring of sorts, but a ring of pure light, where the dragon circled and danced.
From around three-quarters of the way down her body, Kaito noticed a small dragon emerge.
She was giving birth!
She was having a baby!
As the last of the babies' tail emerged from it's tired mother, the heavens roared once again. This time it was all the Dragons in the clouds turn to announce to the heavens and the world that a new Sky Dragon had arrived.
All this excitement was too much for young Kaito to handle, he wrestled his way away from his mother and ran to the center of the circle.
"Yeah! Woohoo! Yeah! Do it again!" shouted the overeager boy as he jumped up and down cheering and waving his arms about.
The mother Dragon recoiled at the sound of the young boy, more from shock than actual fear. This recoil turned to instant anger as she spun about to move face to face with the boy. The crowd of humans went silent and bowed their heads because they knew this child had commited an act that could result in his death, and more, it shamed the family.
Kaito knew he did something bad, but he couldn't help himself he started reaching out to touch the baby dragon with the largest of smiles. He was so focused on the dragon itself that he didn't notice his feet leaving the ground, or that his hair had turned that same lightning color.
The mother dragon then spoke in another language, which Kaito seemed to understand. "I am Mingxia and this is my son. We are honored to meet you young dragon. "
Kaito turned to his mother and smiled. To his surprise, his mother was scared or angry or something, but it didn't matter. Remembering his manners, he turned to Mingxia and bowed. "I am pleased to meet you Mingxia of the um.. Drag.." Kaito was briefly cut off as if to stop a feux-pas. She raised her head in pride and as if to announce to the world in a timultuous voice " We are the T'IEN-LONG!!" She finished in a roar toward the heavens.
Mingxia released a small breath on Kaito which made him slowly sink back to the ground as the mother and son raised up toward the clouds.
Kaito Waved and shouted "Bye, Bye honored mother Mingxia"
As he raced back to Mizuki he shouted "Mama mama, did you see that?" but he noticed his mother had tears coming from her eyes.
The biggest problem I seem to have is that I create a very rich and complex background for a character, yet stumble massively when converting this story into a mechanic's based character.
Which Board is the best to post a story on to get help to create a character?
The type of people I am talking about are true masters of the system, the people that can take any concept and put it on paper.
Where do i go to find them?
I have read many threads and my situations seems to be a bit unique, so i thought i'd ask.
We will have 3 players, myself included, which consist of a bard( full face concepts and skills, all charisma), a seeker oracle and me.
We have a 20 point buy and are trying the hero point system. The rest is RAW, no 3rd party stuff.
I have 3 concepts but am having difficulties as i really do not want to get stuck making something that does not fit the role or is so specialized that he is useless.
Here are the concepts and the difficulties of each, as i see it.
#1.) A Human, Sylph or Elf Kensai
My idea here was to pick up a katana and go to town on people. The DM will not allow Dervish Dancer unless the reason is amazing, so i'd rather focus mainly on Int/Strength. If i could get his charisma high enough, i'd go dragonborn, but i just don't think it's possible.
I have a long story that actually needed to be toned back as it was considered a bit too epic.
My concern is that i would be so focused on just having a katana that i would miss out on any loot for the adventure, also, if it gets disarmed or broken, i may never be able to replace it.
#2.) A Hexcrafter, not sure on race.
This would be more of a sea character as the son of an infamous pirate who just disappeared one day, captain, ship and crew, thereby leaving the character stuck having to make his own way to find his own fortune.
I'd definately get a raven and play up the whole hex thing.
Are there ways to make a good hexcrafter that rely on little to no armor? Would superstitions get this character into a lot of trouble? ( could be fun, or deadly)
#3.) A Sylph Storm or Sky druid
This character would have a bit of me in it as i enjoy going for a swim on a most summer evenings from 6p-dark just to work out and watch the clouds in the sky.
This character would have a love of nature and view most people as nuisances that get in the way as he tries to look up. People would have their purpose as a world without humanoids does not exist, but nature and seeing what's over the next horizon would be his primary goals. I'd take the stargazer trait without hesitation.
Is this character too much of a loner to survive on a pirate ship? Would he fit in the group since we already have a Seeker Oracle and a Bard? Do we need more martial capabilities to even get anywhere in this campaign?
These are my concerns. Any help would be appreciated.
Please note. The DM is very tight-lipped about this game. He was dissapointed when we found out that we start off shanghaied, as stated in the player's guide.