Varisian Barbarian

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Organized Play Member. 290 posts (297 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 9 Organized Play characters. 1 alias.



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If Spell Points as a resource to heighten or otherwise adjust spells were to be implemented, then the consequences must also be considered. How does this affect bloodline powers? Other than losing valuable points that could fuel those abilities, could this feature impact Sorcerers play experience in a way that makes any bloodline power completely ignored as a result? And if it doesn't, should another feat that gives a couple extra Spell Points be a consideration for the Sorcerer as a class feat in lieu of the increase from the advanced bloodline power feats? Because the implication of using Spell Points to fuel spell modification is either a retread of another system's version or making the unique niche of the Sorcerer the master of the Spell Point system.

Right now, I see the current design space of the Sorcerer to be a master of innate power and magical items. Not so much the creation, but having an instinctive knack in their operation in ways that even their creators were unaware.


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Looking at the MC feats, I don't mind the initial Barbarian Rage being limited to once a day. I noticed that the one of the next feats for MC Barbarian actually removes that restriction. Looking at the Paladin/Barbarian mix a bit more now. I can use Rage as a replacement for the lack of normal Smiting so long as I can keep it going all day long.


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I think I've never heard those exact "concerns?" about the Sorcerer before. Honestly, it's hard to tell what it is.

The Sorcerer has always had to be more of a planner than the Wizard to some degree. Wizards have always been able to do lots of short-term planning because their overall goal is to know all the spells, and therefore have all the answers. Sorcerers have to pick their spells more carefully and play the long game a lot more. Every non-bloodline spell they know has always had to be something they were certain could last them a while.

So I'm uncertain if your feelings on a Sorcerer will match up.


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I never looked at the Aberrant bloodline as being about shifting and morphing the body. I looked at it as twisting and manipulating the sorcerer's mind, and perhaps mess with ones perceptions of reality.


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Ectar wrote:

As far as I can tell, powers are unique with the exception that paladins can get domains like clerics.

But I'd also like for powers to be listed separately from spells. Same chapter, sure, but I'd like lists of powers by class way more than just higgledy piggledy throughout spells.

This. This is extremely relevant. I get that these powers cost Spell Points, but they could have been in their own section of the Spells chapter. As it currently is formatted, it confuses the reader as to what's supposed to be a spell or a power. The color coding doesn't really help, especially when you use the color code for powers for the 10th level spells.


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So Ein is a Corgi Technomancer? Or an Envoy who specialized in computer stuff?


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Stratagemini wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Stratagemini wrote:

Will Runelords Other than the final 7 be present? I think Belisarius had their successor trapped in some sort of temporal freeze?

Also, Will this AP assume the Seven Swords of Sin Module happened? and will we see any of the swords?

Yes to most but not to all.
Your Avatar is wrong. You're not a dinosaur, you're a troll.

Who's to say that trolls aren't also dinosaurs in Golarion?


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When I first found out about this Starfinder thing, I looked at the concept and said "Pathfinder meets Babylon 5." Absalom Station kinda gives that away.

What will it likely be more like? It'll likely start along my initial thoughts, possibly focusing a bit on the mystery of why Golarion has been removed from its solar system and the other ramifications of such a thing. What gods, if any, are currently around and how they interact with the larger degree of technology.


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You forgot one other important detail that separates the Phantom Thief apart. It can take Minor and Major Magic rogue talents multiple times, unlike the one of that even the Unchained Rogue has to work with. So that gives the PT the ability to pick some actual offensive magic that the Investigator doesn't have access to. So Burning Hands, Color Spray, Magic Missile, Grease, Ray of Enfeeblement, and other useful 1st level spells can be used by the Phantom Thief when the Investigator can't.

The ability to have more than one magical trick at the PTs disposal isn't something that should be ignored. This earlier skill unlocks are great, and the unchained version still has Dex to damage at 4th level. So it has some potential.


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I'm amazed nobody mentioned that Paladin's can choose to have Divine Bond be towards weapons instead of a summoned mount. I've been playing a Paladin in a Curse of the Crimson Throne game for some time, and I've gradually come to appreciate Divine Bond a lot in that regard. Got an issue with neutral animals/golems? You can always give your weapon the Bane quality towards that creature. Did that a few times against Magical Beasts, Golems, etc.

That's not to say that the other points or suggestions are invalid. Just stating that there is another feature that doesn't need to worry about alignment. Sure, it's got fewer uses overall than Smite and comes in at 5th. But it will get things done.


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I think the mods and some of the devs are likely reading this thread and laughing. In fact, you'd think that the inclusion of the chicken familiar was intended just for this thread to exist. And if so, well played.


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And this is why you play an Alchemist. Even if the item isn't entirely useful, you can use it to blow something up.


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Like I said, I get more of a comic book vibe from the Occultist. John Constantine, Dr. Fate, Doctor Strange come to mind when I read some of this. And that's not a bad thing.

On another note, I think an Extra Focus Power feat might be needed at some point. There are a lot of powers that we might want to use for some builds, but not necessarily enough levels to grab them. Possibly an Expanded Implement feat, just to bump up the spells gained from an implement by 1. Maybe just as something to increase DCs.


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And the level 7 thing where it seems like she took the Extra Arcanist Exploit feat twice is not actually the case. Otherwise, she'd have more feats than she should. That additional Extra Arcanist Exploit is the result of her taking the Halfling Favored Class Bonus for the Arcanist 6 times, thus granting her one more Exploit.


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Before I continue onto the Races, I realize I need to take care of analyzing the relevance of the ability scores. Because trust me, the Skald has MAD issues. Pretty serious ones at that.

Strength: Barring the use of the Spell Warrior archetype, Strength is likely to be your highest or second highest ability score. Skalds are more likely to be in the front line to wade through combat. Your Inspired Rage can supplement lower Strength scores, but you generally want at least a 14 Strength to start. A 16 would be better.

Dexterity: Dexterity governs a few things for Skalds. A few skills key off of Dex, as does Initiative and some of your Armor Class. Helps with ranged combat, which is often going to be the route you'll want to take with the oft mentioned Spell Warrior. For a melee build, you can typically get away with a 12 Dexterity. But you'll want a 15 for a Two-Weapon Fighting if you plan on going that route.

Constitution: You are not dumping this, ever. This governs your HP, your Fort save, and how long you can make saving throws until death. The Skald's Inspired Rage already buffs this up a bit, so you will often have some extra HP to help you out. You can have this as low as about 12-13 if you feel like it.

Intelligence: Given the relatively low number of skill ranks a Skald receives, this should not be dumped at all. A base 10 is also not recommended. It's just too low for a class that has a number of skills it wants to have ranks in. A 12 should be the magic minimum number, but 14 is the most you'll want to go without magic item assistance.

Wisdom: Despite it affecting your Will save, Wisdom is your only genuine dump stat as a Skald. Your Inspired Rage will be able to make up the difference in that regard. Won't help much with Perception, but it is thankfully a class skill for the Skald.

Charisma: Let me put it as blunt as I can. The base minimum Charisma for an effective Skald is 14, no less. It governs your spells, your rounds of Raging Song, and the DCs of any ability you get that need it. It helps you perform to the best of your ability, even at the worst of times.

Well, that takes care of that boring part. Now we get to have fun picking apart the races. As this is a more rudimentary guide, I'm focusing solely on the base races. Less headaches are involved.

Dwarves: Dwarves have beards, which makes them typically manly and capable of a ZZ Top impersonation. If I could only determine what makes a good Skald with that, then these guys would be close to the top of the heap. But it would be a disservice to the vikings that inspired the Skald if I did that. Dwarves do not make very good Skalds. They get Darkvision, Hardy, and an expanded weapon selection. They can bump up the Con, which is nice. However, they get an increase in our dump stat and a decrease in a stat we must never let go below 14. That's a bad sign, because we must then make the Skald overall weaker just to accommodate that. Coupled with a bad Favored Class Bonus that takes 10 levels to give you heavy armor with only a slightly lesser arcane failure chance, and I can't recommend it as a Skald.

Elves: Elves are lanky, long haired folk who look like they might have been in a few 80s hair bands. They are only slightly metal. They give an increase to Dexterity and Intelligence, while having a dip in Constitution. That isn't as bad as you might think. Just a simple re-allocation of stats and it becomes manageable. Racial traits aren't too shabby either. Bonus to Perception, saves vs enchantment effects, low light vision, and even to spell penetration checks. And you can get rid of that last one to give yourself a few extra spell like abilities per day. The only drawback to that is on the Favored Class Bonus, which can improve the Well-Versed ability by 1 point every 4 levels. Other than that, I'd only recommend the Elf for archer Skalds.

Gnomes: The closest thing to a metal Gnome is the 1980s version of Alvin and the Chipmunks, or perhaps the Oompa Loompas in the Tim Burton version of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Gnomes don't have manly beards, nor big enough hair to make a hair band. Stat wise, it's a mixed bag as well. Strength gets dipped, but Con and Cha go up. Favored Class Bonus is simply a bonus to concentration checks for your Skald spells. Other racial traits aren't that impressive either. It's really suited for a caster Skald, which sort of goes against the grain for the class. It might be good for a certain archetype when I get to them.

Half-Elves: Half-elves can have the long hair of the elves, or be at more reasonable hair length. And they can be more muscular than the lanky elves. So these guys could have fit in an 80s metal band. They get a floating bonus that may end up in Strength more often than not. They do get a free Skill Focus, which could go into making their primary perform skill. They also have the resistance to sleep and enchantment, as well as the buff to Perception. And best of all, they have the best Favored Class Bonus. They can add more rounds of Raging Song. That's more time for the band to perform. That's encores. When a half-elf plays Stairway to Heaven, they are never denied.

Half-Orcs: Half-orcs are metal. They are thrash metal incarnate. The loudest headbangers known to man. Dethlok would want one of these guys just because they fit the motif of their place. Racially, the half-orc is practically ideal to the Skald. Same floating bonus as the half-elf, and they get a number of great abilities. They get a bonus on Intimidate checks, Darkvision, and Orc Ferocity. If that wasn't enough, they can switch things up by getting rid of Darkvision for extra skill ranks or the Ferocity for a luck bonus to all saves. By the way, that bonus to saves comes in the form of tattoos. So everything is so far screaming metal here. And on top of all that, they get the same Favored Class Bonus as the half-elf. So the half-orc will have more rounds of the heaviest metal this side of Brutal Legend.

Halflings: Halflings are in the same boat as the Gnomes as far as how metal they are. And their stats just don't help. Bonus to a mostly irrelevent stat and your casting stat, and a penalty to one of your primary stats do not make a solid Skald. It might be fine in an archery build. The racial traits are a little okay, with the bonus to all saves and a further bonus versus fear. Favored Class Bonus is sadly the nail in the coffin here. Just a bonus on critical confirmation rolls for a very small number of weapons. At best two weapons, and it doesn't stack with Critical Focus.

Humans: Humans brought forth the viking, one of the inspirations for a number of metal songs. Seeing as the Skald is my excuse to play Manowar or Blind Guardian at the table for a buff class, it's fitting to say that humans are the inspiration for metal. They have the same floating bonus that the half-elf and half-orc get, but they also get a bonus feat and extra skill ranks. The Favored Class Bonus for the human is actually a bit disappointing and bland, as it is merely bonus to spells known. Spell Kenning already makes that mostly useless, unless you take an archetype that removes it.

The continuation of this quasi-guide will involve Archetypes, relevant Traits, relevant Feats, and perhaps an example of some of the builds.

And Hmm, I wouldn't mind that little bit of help. I'm just doing a lot of typing.


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Let's clear the air a bit before we start this guide for the Skald. This is a pure discussion here about the theoretical and practical uses of a class and it's features. There will be some opinions, and I plan to debunk a few myths going about about the class. As such, there will not be a link to any kind of Google Drive or cloud saved document. No graphics to entice. This is bare bones. And now that that is out of the way ...

Welcome to the Skald! We need to discuss what the Skald isn't before we get to what it is. It is neither a bard nor a barbarian. That seems odd, considering that these two classes are what were made to create the class. The Skald may have abilities akin to both of the parent classes, but it is more than the sum of those parts. That's something that people are forgetting when it comes to making Skalds. They are thinking that it's just a Bard that makes parties have Barbarian rage.

Now, onto the qualities of the Skald.

Skills: Skalds have access to the vast majority of the combined skills of the bard and barbarian, with one important caveat. Skalds, as of the recent FAQ update, have only five Perform skills available to them. Oratory, Percussion, Sing, String, and (now) Wind Instruments. However, that large list has one drawback. The Skald has only 4 + Int Mod skill ranks per level, instead of the Bard's 6 + Int Mod skill ranks. This makes choosing skills a very meticulous endeavor. The Skald will not necessarily be the knowledge monkey that the Bard can be, and Perform skills will oddly be at a premium. We will get to this later.

Hit Points: The Skald uses d8 hit dice, which does put it at Bard HP. You'll have powers and perhaps feats help you get around these limitations, but you will not be the tankiest guy who ever lived. I'd have been happier with d10 hit dice, as it would represent the warrior poet angle the Skald was meant for a little better. But we take what we can get.

Base Attack Bonus: We're looking at a 3/4 BAB class here, like the Bard. Unlike the Hit Points, this is something that fits a bit better with the class design. You are reasonably certain that you can hit on average, especially in melee. This is fairly important, in that the Skald was seemingly designed to be in melee combat.

Saves: Skalds have excellent Fort and Will saves, and one of their class features make them both exceedingly better than most anything. That is incredibly important to know. At higher levels, a Skald at full tilt will reasonably be expected to resist most save-or-suck spells. Reflex is naturally the weakest save as a result, but Skalds can work around this limitation.

Weapons and Armor: Skalds are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, which gives them a diverse selection of ways to beat faces in. They also have proficiency with light and medium armors, as well as any shield that isn't the tower variety. That's a very nice selection of armor, as it does allow you to be a bit more flexible in your stat allocation.

Spellcasting: Skalds have practical access to all Bard spells, and are a 6 level spellcasting class. A class ability gives them theoretical access to nearly every 6th level or lower spell in the game, but this will be expanded upon later. They are also capable of casting in medium armor starting at 1st level without penalty. That is a very important thing to note for what is essentially an arcane caster. Even the Magus can't cast in medium armor at 1st level without failure chance. They do have the bardic limitation of a verbal component in all spells.

Class abilities:

Bardic Knowledge: Skalds will need to rely more on Bardic Knowledge for most of their knowledge checks than the Bard. This is entirely due to the drop in skill ranks compared to the Bard. You might want to have a few knowledge skills trained anyway, as the bonus is a nice boost.

Raging Song: This is the big one. The beginning of the major differences between the Bard and the Skald. Raging Song does act a lot like Bardic Performance, with the same scaling activation cost and interaction with feats that require Bardic Performance. Raging Song is a purely audible power, so deaf Skalds have failure chances and deaf characters are totally immune to it. However, the Skald has only 5 songs compared to the much larger number of Bardic Performances. Also, all allies that would be affected by Raging Song can choose whether or not to accept the benefits. That is a vast difference from the Bardic Performance, and allows the party to dynamically adapt to changing battlefield conditions.

Inspired Rage:
Inspired Rage is the main Raging Song you will rely on as a Skald, unless you take the Magic Warrior archetype. I'll get to that archetype later when I discuss each of them. What Inspired Rage does is give a lesser rage like effect to allies within range of you, but without any fatigue after it ends. Will save bonus starts at +1 and goes up at 4th level and every 4 levels afterwards. The Str/Con bonus however starts at +2 at first level, and it goes up by 2 at 8th level and 16th level. AC penalty is only a -1, and never gets worse as level goes up. Barbarians and Bloodragers can note that they can instead take their own rage bonus, but cannot gain any other benefit such as rage powers or bloodrage powers from their own class. For those classes, this can be a slight benefit because they effectively have a free pool of extra rage rounds that do not fatigue them. Inspired Rage is also what helps make a Skald an effective melee combatant.

Song of Marching:
At 3rd Level, Song of Marching can convert a single round of Raging Song to make one hour of hustle that is treated as a walk. It affects allies within 60 feet that can hear you, so it might be useful in caravans. Reduces fatigue quite a bit for long travels at low levels. It does work quite well before you have a wizard gain access to mass transit magic. It's a nice utility song, and one that you may end up using in some campaigns.

Song of Strength:
At 6th Level, Song of Strength allows your party to add half your Skald level to Strength checks and Strength-based skill checks. Like Song of Marching, this affects allies within 60 feet of you. I like to call this, "The Song of Kicking Down the Door."

Dirge of Doom:
This is the same thing as the Bardic Performance of the same name, just two levels later. If you aren't sure about the applications of this song, just check out a number of Bard guides to this. This is honestly kind of a lackluster effect, especially when you have access to some spells and feats that do the same thing or better.

Song of the Fallen:
Oh, this is the goods right here. At 14th level, you have a Raging Song that can resurrect allies in combat. It has a heavy cost though. One round of Raging Song per ally, per round. And when the song ends, they return to being dead. And it has the same limitations as the spell Raise Dead. But let's be honest with ourselves. It's an excuse to break out The Flight of the Valkyries in the middle of a climatic boss fight. It can save the party when it matters most by bringing back that one big hitter to really mess with the BBEG's day. This is the true capstone ability of the Skald. Don't think it is an excuse for recklessness, but it can save the day when the dice just come down on your group.

Scribe Scroll: Hey, a bonus feat at 1st is nothing to sneeze at. Just remember that in PFS, this changes instead to Extra Performance. That means 6 extra rounds of Raging Song at 1st level.

Versatile Performance: This works mechanically just like the Bard's Versatile Performance, but it only works with the Perform skills the Skald has available to it. Also, you only get to choose at 2nd level and every 5 levels afterward. The optimal approach to this seems to be to pick one social skill to have actual max ranks in and to pick two Perform skills to cover the others. The amount of overlap makes focusing on more than two Perform skills a bit of a hassle.

Well-Versed: At 2nd level, the Skald gains the same resistance to sonic effects that a Bard tends to get. +4 to saves vs. Bardic Performance and all sonic or language-dependent effects. Not a major power, and easy to replace with certain archetypes.

Rage Powers: This one is going to take a bit of explanation. At 3rd level and every 3 levels afterward, a Skald can gain barbarian rage powers. These rage powers can only be used with Inspired Rage, which means they can affect the whole party.

Using Rage Powers and Restrictions:
Skalds can choose which powers apply to their Inspired Rage as they start the performance. Rage powers use the Skald's level in place of the Barbarian level for all effects depending on it, and affected allies use the Skald's ability modifiers for any rage power whose effects rely on it.

Rage powers that require "spending a standard action" or costing rounds of rage to activate cannot be chosen. At all. So Terrifying Howl can't be picked up (as it costs a standard action to use), but Knockback (which is made in place of a melee attack) can be chosen. Skalds cannot, unless otherwise stated, take the same rage power more than once.

Rage Powers from other sources:
Here is where I have to dispel a major myth. As written, the Skald cannot apply the rage powers of any other source to the party as part of an Inspired Rage. [u]This also counts the feat Extra Rage Power.[/u] I had to emphasize this because of a poster who has been claiming that there are two trains of thought regarding it. The supposed second train of thought was that it only applied to rage powers from other classes. That statement was recently disproven when the pregen Skald for PFS came out. In the 7th level version of the pregen, the Skald had Extra Rage Power. The stat block and accompanying text flat out said that the rage power granted by the feat (Witch Hunter) could not be shared with the party. Therefore, rage powers coming from feats and other classes cannot be shared during an Inspired Rage.

In contrast, a Skald with levels in Barbarian or Bloodrager can apply his Skald rage powers to the Barbarian Rage or Bloodrage. As they would only affect himself in that instance, it is allowed.

Linnorm Death Curses:
Linnorm Death Curses are a special subset of rage power introduced in the Advanced Class Guide. As Skald rage powers, it allows allies to have an interesting effect. In most cases, the Linnorm Death Curse will grant you and your allies a single point of specific damage types to melee attacks. The real fascinating thing involves the second power of the Linnorm Death Curses. When a player affected by it is knocked unconscious or killed by an attack or spell, the attacker/assailant will have to make a Will save or be affected by the Curse. Each curse is named after a different Linnorm, and thus has different curse effects. Several produce vulnerability to an energy type, although the Tor Death Curse also permanently staggers the opponent. The Cairn Death Curse causes Con damage and ages the cursed one year per day. The Fjord Death Curse makes the opponent drown easier in the water. And the Tarn Death Curse flat out makes an enemy completely unable to heal in any way until the curse is removed. No healing spells, and no ability to heal naturally from rest. That makes the death curses something special when things go wrong, but you may see them more in NPC villain characters.

Uncanny Dodge/Improved Uncanny Dodge: This is self-explanatory here. Works the same as for Barbarians, and scales the same as the Rogue. Solid ability to keep the Skald from being in some bad situations.

Spell Kenning: This is the ability that at 5th level gives the Skald a truly unique situation. Starting at once per day, the Skald can take one of his spell slots and cast any appropriate level spell from the Bard, Cleric, or Sorc/Wiz spell lists. As I said in the spell section, the Skald has theoretical access to near every 6th level or lower spell in the game. At 11th and 17th level, you gain an additional use of this power. There is a catch though for this unprecedented spell access. No matter what the spell cast by this ability will be, you have a minimum cast time of one round to cast it. That's been seen as a major failing, but is largely irrelevant in certain circumstances. Any spells that already have one round or longer cast times are unaffected by this drawback.

Lore Master: This is the same ability that Bards get, but only scaled back to being two levels behind the Bard. So that means you get it at 7th level, and it improves at 13th level and 19th level.

Damage Reduction: The Skald first gains DR 1/- at 9th level, and it increases by one at 14th and 19th levels. This can be further improved with the Improved Damage Reduction rage power, but only during an Inspired Rage.

Master Skald: The official capstone of the Skald, Master Skald does a lot at 20th level when using Inspired Rage. AC Penalty is completely removed, even though it was at that point a negligible thing. Barbarians and Bloodragers can gain the full benefit of their raging if they choose to use the Inspired Rage as the source. So Dragonic Bloodragers will turn into dragons, and they can cast their spells while under the Inspired Rage. Finally, all players under the effects of Inspired Rage can make one extra attack while full attacking as if under the effect of haste. Not too bad, as far as level 20 capstones go.

In development: Races, Archetypes, Builds, Traits, Feats, and Assorted Things. Right now, I had to get the pertinent information dealt with and dispel a myth. Took a while to write everything while reviewing my references. It's important to first get things that are known out and remove doubt as to other things.


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Based on the pregen Arcanist, we know one thing: School Understanding does indeed also count the subschools. This means that School Savant's only advantage is in bonus prepared spells. That isn't worth the cost, honestly. Not only do you give up 3 levels worth of exploits for the arcane school, you gain the two opposed schools of a wizard without the wizard's ability to take a discovery to reduce that to one.

Speaking of other things we've learned from the pregen, it might not be a bad idea to pick up Bloodline Development (Arcane). So long as you don't advertise the bonded item, it's unlikely that you'd have to worry about it. With the right item to bond to, you can make it seem like you are simply relying on the magic item instead of your own powers. Roleplay it out as if you've run out of juice, and then hit them with a whammy when it would best suit you.


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First off, I'm amazed at this response. This makes two for two attempts at a concept that the immediate response is "play this instead." Very little attempt if any was given to considering what it was. I'll admit I forgot to list the detail that this Paladin would be a follower of Abadar, but I somehow think that wouldn't have mattered. At least this time, I asked "what do you think" first instead of "how should I consider x thing for y build."

What I'm looking for is in no way, shape, or form an Inquisitor. Let's remove that thought right there. I actually want to play a Paladin, but I want to be able to not suck at common knowledge things. Maybe have that breakthrough to help in those times where the others who should be knowledgeable turn out not to be.

Let me put it like this. How many Paladins actually invest in Knowledge Local or perhaps the Planes just to understand the laws governing them? None, right? What my character is meant to be is a genuinely bookish Paladin. A man who studied more than just holy texts and a who's who catalog of noble houses and their decor. A man for whom his intelligence is another weapon in the service of his deity and the people, alongside his arms and his silvered tongue. Does that sound like an Inquisitor? A consummate hunter of heretics and horrors? No. To me, it sounds like a Paladin trying to hold himself to the standard of a learned judge.

On the one question about the wisdom dump: mechanically it's a sacrifice for that intelligence and because I'd otherwise be short a few points for it mechanically. Better a little extra than a little short. Flavor wise, I can explain it as a bit of a drawback from those studies. Quite a few men have worsened their vision or narrowed their focus in the pursuit of knowledge. They have blinded themselves to some of the goings on in the world, either figuratively or literally. So a lack of wisdom is to be expected.


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I've recently got into my mind a Paladin that actually investigates things to make sure he's smiting the right evil. One that has more tools to serve law and good. Basically, make a Paladin that avoids the Lawful Ignorant and Ignorant Good types of characters. I make the distinction between ignorance and stupid because some of the so called "Lawful Stupid" characters are more the result of having Intelligence as a dump stat and not investing in Knowledge skills. People tend to roleplay that as just dumb, when it's more ignorance. And as an old adage goes, "Ignorance can be treated. Stupid is incurable."

To that end, I am going to attempt a build mix of Paladin and the Sleuth archetype for the Investigator. It's not intended to be the strongest or swiftest of characters, just maybe more clever. The question I have for myself is simple: do I wield a single weapon or have a shield in one hand?

For the purposes of simplicity, I am going to build it for a 17th level game I will be participating in the future. As such, I figure the best mix is 4 levels of Sleuth Investigator and 13 levels of Paladin. For the sake of progression, I'll say that the Sleuth levels were between levels 3-7 just so I could take a feat to give myself the Quick Study Investigator Talent right as I get the Studied Strike/Combat abilities. I've also decided upon making this a human, because it can smooth out the feat progression to allow for that extra investigator talent.

Current stat allocation before leveling this all the way to 17 is as follows.

Strength 17 (with racial adjustment)
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 13
Wis 7
Cha 15

I'll come up with my overall feat plan later, but for now I'd like to know what people think of the idea.


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And let us be fair about it, this is mostly an issue of growing pains. We wanted more product in a timely fashion, when the previous release schedule actually gave a bit more wiggle room for these production issues. Paizo could have simply added the class decks and organized play and called it a day, but they went the extra mile and decided to have a 6 month set cycle instead of the year long.

I don't think I've ever seen a new product for any company have a totally smooth launch, or for a service of some sort. So we really should expect bumps in the road. Let's not exaggerate a bump in the road to a ten-car pileup next to a two foot deep pothole. We'll just seem silly later.


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Duncan7291 wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Kalvit wrote:
So does this delay the PDFs for the stores as well?

Tomorrow, I'll be sending an email about this to the retailers who have signed up for PFSACG play on our website, and to our PFS Venture Officers.

Season of the Shackles was planned for a weekly schedule, with each new adventure beginning on the day that its adventure deck is released. So we need to sync back up to our plan as soon as possible. Thus, we will be releasing the first *four* scenarios to retailers and PFS VOs on September 3, and then we're on to the weekly schedule.

Please dont do this. Just push back and go as normal. Why release all 4 at once?

I think they have plans to get Season 1 up and running as soon as WoTR Base Set comes out, so delaying the release schedule for Season Zero scenarios would get in the way of that.


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And I was going to provide cake for my launch of ACG. Well, that just gives me more time to do this. Bit easier on the wallet too.

So does this delay the PDFs for the stores as well? I've arranged for a burnable disk so the store can put in the files while I get them to a printer. I'd like to know what I'm going to be working with for the gig.


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Okay, you just sold me on the Hunter. 1st level Gravity Bow/Lead Blades and Resist Energy? I now have to get in line.


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Paizo boards, where you can learn all kinds of interesting historical/cultural tidbits over the course of a preview thread.

Dark Archive

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Comes in with a plate full of fresh baked cookies.

Ah, welcome to the Dark Archive!

Who wants cookies? They're chocolate chip! There's some milk to go with them on the table in the hall.


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Ok, so this is closer to a book of errata and rules amendments. It just so happens to have some redesigns on a number of "problematic" classes.

Summoner, I can understand. It tends to require a different kind of system mastery than most casters, and is even more accounting heavy due to the malleable eidolon. Rogue makes sense too. A number of traits, alternate class archetypes, and other sundry things make the rogue seem totally lackluster to practically everything.

Monk is a little hazy on the revamp, though I understand that full BAB reduces language for Flurry of Blows. May also make it easier to qualify for various maneuver feats, which tend to be the Monk's niche. But the Barbarian is the real oddity. I get that rage cycling is a problem, and that some rage power combos are a GM's nightmare. But I honestly can't think of much else they'd consider revamping.


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Ross Byers wrote:
How about this, changing the topic from Quick Study. A lot of the hostile spell effects adventurers encounter are actually spell-like abilities of monsters, rather than proper spells. Would those trigger Suffering Knowledge?

That is a good question. It is important to know if spell-like abilities can work with Suffering Knowledge so we might Mega Man them for a bit.


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Okay. So if I am using an Arcanist with Quick Study, I can now quote a movie in a totally serious fashion. "Hide behind the mound of dead bards." I'm fine with that.

And Suffering Knowledge is something we all asked about at some point in that playtest. Now we really are pulling Mega Man out as a spellcaster.


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Rynjin wrote:
Hey well we finally have an iconic with loving parents who at least one of isn't dead.

Given the ending of that backstory, the "loving" part may be a bit stretched. Just a bit. Estranged might be a better word right now.


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Albatoonoe wrote:
Yeah, there is pretty much only one character from myth and legend that I can compare to the Bloodrager. Cu Chulainn and his warp spasm. I'm so down for this class.

I am definitely going to consider making a bloodrager character like Cu Chulainn for PFS. Grab a longspear, make a "warp spasm", and slay everything within 10 feet of him. Figuring the bloodline will likely be the challenge.


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Ok, so my monk who wants to simply be the Paracountess's caterer for her parties would logically be catering for the Dark Archive parties. Yes, it's a silly reason for a faction switch. Don't knock it.

So the monk will say, "I serve the Dark Archive ... breakfast."


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Might is Right and Might Makes Right are two different things.

The phrase "might makes right" depicts the concept that the strong make the rules. Historically, one can see this working among minor warlords and tribal communities where trial by combat more common. Strength leads to authority and "moral superiority". The purpose of acquiring strength is more of a matter of security in the community.

The concept of "might is right" assumes that strength is in itself the authority in both the legal and moral sense. If one is strong, they are by default the leader. "Might is right" is closer in concept to "might for might," where the acquisition of power is its own goal. The purpose of power then becomes to acquire more power as a vicious, never ending cycle.

Another example of "might" as regards to moral value is "might for right." In this case, strength is subservient to legal and moral qualities. The best example of this value is the Arthurian ideal of the knight. The purpose of acquiring strength is to defend the community and uphold what is right. While "might makes right" is opposed to the ideal of "might for right," it is not as opposed as the "might is right" argument.

If we ascribe "might for right" as a baseline for a Good alignment, then we can deduce the value of the other two arguments. As "might is right" is the furthest away from the whole "might for right" argument, we logically must determine it to indicate actual Evil intent. We must then concede that "might makes right" is a more Neutral philosophy.


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Yeah, I think that tops this thread. I've had to help friends of mine evade that kind of thing when their sisters had slumber parties.

That kind of situation is where you facepalm, look at the Judge, and politely bow out of that table. Then find the nearest bar close to your own home, and proceed to get brain bleach for the event.


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Guys, most of Numeria is filled with barbarians. We'll probably see Mi-Go more than robots, and fight wizards and sorcerers as well as barbarians. Sure, we'll see constructs that are more akin to robots and androids. But I am quite certain that the robot angle is not going to be the sole interest for Season 6.


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More than likely, it was a theft. Competitive CCGs are notorious for those things happening. Used to judge a few games like that.


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Coming soon (because I have yet to have a bard in PFS):

I am not allowed to belt out Three Dog Night songs for any Bardic Performances. No, not even "Let Me Serenade You" for Fascinate.

I am not allowed to belt out Queen songs for any Bardic Performances. Any attempt at "Bohemian Rhapsody" would be too much of a distraction for the whole group.

I am not allowed to clock any tone deaf individuals who choose to belt out a song for Bardic Performance. Just because I have perfect pitch and will thus eternally live with the memory of a bad performance does not mean I can punish someone for the horrible memory.

I am not allowed to suggest to any potentially tone deaf individuals who want to be Bards to consider interpretive dance in lieu of any musical performances. Unless the GM specifically tells me it's ok.


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88) If I am a Tier 1-2 melee guy, I will be a Minotaur that knows how to ambush people. I will go into combat with my gore and my really huge axe and kill the biggest problem in one shot.


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Pharasma might be one of the best choices, going with Greek precedent.

The Greek goddess Artemis was a virgin goddess of the moon, the hunt, and childbirth. Only one mortal maybe, sorta, possibly was a consideration for her to give up the virgin status. That was Orion the hunter, someone she enjoyed going on the hunt with. Her brother Apollo, jealous of the attention a mortal man was getting from her, had sent forth the scorpion Scorpio to kill Orion one day. Artemis saw this and flew into a terrible rage, killing Scorpio, and then she cast the dead hunter's body to the heavens to become the constellation Orion. I think some versions of that tale have Artemis go on to beat the hell out of Apollo for that stunt.

Anyway, Pharasma and Artemis seem to share a common domain of childbirth. I kinda like the thought that the virgin goddesses are in charge of bringing children into the world.


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nighttree wrote:
Adam Daigle wrote:

Androids are actually in a space between those two examples. You can't go full-on Weyland android as a player race. I mean, heck, Bishop was pulled apart and was still conscious. You also can't get too replicant, because a 4-year lifespan is a terrible timebomb for a PC.

LOL....I don't know.

If your android get's his head pulled off, and regains consciousness a while later...I don't mechanically see anything wrong with letting the head be conscious and talking while a companion carries it around in his backpack....could lead to some very enjoyable roleplay ;)

Point. That could be an interesting roleplay experience.

Hmm, I wonder if we'll see a couple Android exclusive feats in that Android article/section? Perhaps a specific Technology based Oracle mystery or odd bloodline for them. We're dealing with potential robot gods and the like, so why not?


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KahnyaGnorc wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
Just realized how incredibly awesome a warpriest with a sacred weapon (gun) would be. Holy gun indeed...
Nicholas D. Wolfwood

You know, that got me and a buddy to think that a Vash expy would be perfect in Iron Gods. Numeria is already going to have a vibe that reminds one of Road Warrior/Trigun, so a pacifist gunslinger would be hilarious to run. Lots of called shots will be made, to say the least.


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I've internally been calling the "Hexes" Boons for a bit. Seems more accurate.


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Well, the typo I saw coming has occurred. With the Nature Spirit, the Friend to Animals Hex still lists itself as "adds the all of the Summon Nature's Ally spells to her spell list." Since Summon Nature's Ally spells are already on the Druid list, that makes for redundant language. There's still the "Divine Grace for all animals within 30 feet" bit, but I wonder if there wasn't enough time to consider a revision of that hex.


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Rynjin wrote:
Kajehase wrote:
cannon fodder wrote:
Good grief, I had to go looking for Ballroom Blitz as soon as I read that title!
Sweet!
Not sure whether to groan at terrible pun or smile because I love Ballroom Blitz.

Why not do both? We all immediately thought Ballroom Blitz when we clicked on this link.


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Honestly, I figured Erza as a Metal Oracle variant of some type. Maybe a multiclass Metal Elementalist/Metal Oracle. Given her backstory, the haunted curse didn't seem too out of place. Would also explain the massive luggage she carries.


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Only major idea I might have for an Iron Gods character is possibly what Giant Robot I worship. Kinda stuck right now between the obvious Voltron analogue or the Gundam analogue. If there's a Macross in there, that might also complicate things.

Damn my love of Giant Robots!


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Ok, this happened yesterday as I was running the adventure. For this game, we had a male human wizard (teleportation school), a deaf-mute male life oracle (my placeholder GMPC), a female human barbarian, and a female elven rogue. Wizard decided to go to the local sage's place to get info when I was going to sick Shayliss on him, and I put the oracle at the Pixie's Kitten at that time. Barbarian was with Foxglove, so here comes Shayliss after the rogue.

She approaches the rogue and asks for help with the "rats", and the rogue tries to negotiate a discount at the store. Shayliss just says that they can "negotiate payment" elsewhere. So when she finally tries the seduction attempt, the rogue says what was possibly the worst thing ever. "This is gonna cost you." Had to throw an additional 5 to the DC of the Diplomacy check for that one. Right as daddy Ven was going to show up. So there's a rogue, a half naked redhead who's now pissed, and soon to be said redhead's father in a cellar. Rogue quickly uses the "what the hell is that" distraction to leap up to the ceiling and hide.

Shayliss is telling Ven that someone attacked her and is trying to hide. Even with Ven rolling his almighty Perception check that no CR2 should ever have, he couldn't find the rogue before she got away. So the rogue gets out of there, rushes back to the Rusty Dragon, and quickly throws on a disguise for the rest of the day. Ameiko is wondering what's going on, and she laughs when the rogue explains what's happened.

Next morning, the wizard is recruited to help the rogue clear her name so she doesn't end up overcharged or jailed from this epic fail. Now the wizard's familar was a toucan, so there was a bonus on diplomacy anyhow and helped him negotiate with the still angry father. The plan was simply that the rogue will have to be Shayliss' gopher for the rest of the day. As this has been done, Shayliss comes down from her own room; and everyone has noticed that she still got somebody in her bed. Wizard goes to check her actual room, where she finds one of the town guard trying to climb out the window. With the help of the toucan, the guard falls from said window into the street sans pants. Sheriff Hemlock and a couple other guards show up after the landing caused a ruckus, and Frank (the previously unnamed guard in Shayliss' window) got pulled in for dereliction of duty after trading spots with a coworker the previous evening. This all lead to the wizard being the chaperone for Shayliss and the rogue.

After a couple tasks for the group that took them a couple places in town, they head back to the general store where Shayliss tries to seduce the rogue and the chaperone in one go. Rogue learned from her mistake and said that tag-teaming the wizard was totally on her, and the wizard gets backed into a corner. The wizard then gets tricked into revealing that... he's a virgin. The grins on the two more brazen individuals there turn positively feral. The wizard, panicking at that point, shifts out of their clutches, runs out the store, and begins a chase scene. Shayliss and the rogue look at each other and go "first to the finish wins?" and take off after the wizard.

Meanwhile, the wizard is praying to Cayden Cailean (who is more likely to tell him to turn back around) and Desna (who thinks of it as another journey) for help. Cayden's help was to put an empty mug in the middle of the road to trip him up. Wizard shifts away from it. The wizard also sent his toucan ahead to get help at the Rusty Dragon, where only the oracle was there. So the oracle now has a toucan in his face with no clue what the hell is going on. Down at the local Theater, the band is practicing some music for a later performance. Yes, it was the Benny Hill chase music. Rogue is taking to the rooftops chasing down the wizard. Shayliss is just running down the road in hot pursuit. As the wizard gets closer to the inn, he nearly runs over Ameiko were it not for his shift ability. She takes notice of what's going on and joins the chase because it could be far too amusing a tale to tell later.

So the wizard finally gets to the Rusty Dragon, ignores the continuing struggle between a toucan and a deaf-mute, rushes to his room, locks his door and bars his window. Unfortunately, his room does have a fireplace (roll with it). The rogue enters the wizard's room through the chimney, and she stalks towards her prey. Meanwhile the barbarian, who has been out on her own errands, finally returns to the inn and notices Shayliss outside the wizard's door and Ameiko nearby trying to find out what's going on. So she joins the interested parties. Wizard opens his door to run from the rogue, finds Shayliss and Ameiko, and shifts to behind Ameiko to hide. This coincidentally put him smack dab in the middle of the barbarian's chest.

Ameiko and the barbarian ask what is going on while the wizard slinks to a hiding position behind the oracle after finally recalling that toucan. Shayliss and the rogue recount what happened, whereupon Ameiko busts into laughter. This leads to a series of slights. The rogue and Shayliss try to comment that Ameiko couldn't do any better, which Ameiko initially brushes off. The twosome then insult the barbarian by saying that she's too mannish to land any man, which does seem to work in a bit. Finally, Shayliss and the rogue propose a bet with Ameiko and the barbarian. Whoever of the four gets to pop the wizard's cherry first gets 50 gold apiece from the others and a month's servitude from the losers. The latter bit is what gets Ameiko in on it. Additional terms were that they could not use magic to win themselves. All of them agree on it and depart at that point.

The wizard was let in on the bet by the rogue later on, leading to his departure from the Rusty Dragon and taking up residence at the White Stag. He wasn't safe there.