paizo.com Recent Posts by Kaladin_Stormblessedpaizo.com Recent Posts by Kaladin_Stormblessed2024-03-19T14:36:27Z2024-03-19T14:36:27ZRe: Forums: Hell's Rebels: Turn of the Torrent (GM Reference)Kaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ssll&page=9?Turn-of-the-Torrent#4042023-04-30T14:09:15Z2023-04-28T03:41:47Z<p>So, I wanted to make sure some of Marquel's writings were more visibly significant, and while I know as written he's sequestered starting at the beginning of the AP, I stretched that a bit to have a couple of works published early on in book 1 before things get too serious, especially because I didn't want him to be doing nothing about Barzillai's eight proclamation. So far my players are really intrigued to eventually try to find out who's behind them. Thought I'd share these in case anyone else found them enjoyable or useful.</p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p>Meant them to slightly call attention to the doghousing rumors and foreshadowing Izoni's role, since my players had been ignoring those. The first is a villanelle, the second is an espinela, both historic poetry forms with regional origins that are at least not totally outlandish for counterparts to Cheliax. Because I figure as a classically educated nobleman, freestyle wouldn't quite suit Marquel.</p>So, I wanted to make sure some of Marquel's writings were more visibly significant, and while I know as written he's sequestered starting at the beginning of the AP, I stretched that a bit to have a couple of works published early on in book 1 before things get too serious, especially because I didn't want him to be doing nothing about Barzillai's eight proclamation. So far my players are really intrigued to eventually try to find out who's behind them. Thought I'd share these in case anyone...Kaladin_Stormblessed2023-04-28T03:41:47ZRe: Forums: Hell's Rebels: In Hell's Bright Shadow (GM Reference)Kaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2sslj&page=14?In-Hells-Bright-Shadow#6732023-04-18T01:03:17Z2023-04-18T01:03:17Z<p>Thanks for the answer, Savant!</p>
<p>Oh, and another question, if Crystal or anyone happens to have an answer: what made Rexus be hours late to the same protest he was coordinating meetups at? I know T withdrawal can mess people up, and Aria Park is on the other end of town, but two hours feels hard to explain. And one of my PCs is going along with the plan, but is concerned about Rexus's trustworthiness over the absence, so I'm trying to think up a justification.</p>Thanks for the answer, Savant!
Oh, and another question, if Crystal or anyone happens to have an answer: what made Rexus be hours late to the same protest he was coordinating meetups at? I know T withdrawal can mess people up, and Aria Park is on the other end of town, but two hours feels hard to explain. And one of my PCs is going along with the plan, but is concerned about Rexus's trustworthiness over the absence, so I'm trying to think up a justification.Kaladin_Stormblessed2023-04-18T01:03:17ZForums/Pathfinder Adventure Path: General Discussion: What feedback is most helpful to Paizo?Kaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43sr0?What-feedback-is-most-helpful-to-Paizo#12023-04-02T23:14:18Z2023-04-02T23:14:18Z<p>Not totally sure if this is the most apt place for this thread, but it's my best guess.</p>
<p>As someone wanting to counteract negativity about, well, sometimes it seems like all the coolest, most imaginative parts of adventures, apart from obviously reviewing the books, what is the best way to give <i>helpful</i> input?</p>
<p>And that had me thinking, in general, what information is useful? Things players liked, things the GM liked, things the players or GM thought were a flop? Hard encounters vs easy encounters? Decisions made within the bounds of the AP? Parts that had to be improvised?</p>
<p>What would ideal product feedback for adventures look like?</p>Not totally sure if this is the most apt place for this thread, but it's my best guess.
As someone wanting to counteract negativity about, well, sometimes it seems like all the coolest, most imaginative parts of adventures, apart from obviously reviewing the books, what is the best way to give helpful input?
And that had me thinking, in general, what information is useful? Things players liked, things the GM liked, things the players or GM thought were a flop? Hard encounters vs easy...Kaladin_Stormblessed2023-04-02T23:14:18ZRe: Forums: Hell's Rebels: In Hell's Bright Shadow (GM Reference)Kaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2sslj&page=14?In-Hells-Bright-Shadow#6712023-03-05T03:48:26Z2023-03-05T03:47:46Z<p>Gearing up to start this AP in a few weeks, and I wanted some opinions from all of you cool folks. My group does very graphically detailed virtual tabletop games, so it would be easy enough to slip tokens for some characters from later in the adventure into the Aria Park protest to have the players maybe notice as familiar later on (and potentially influence them toward making allies). So far, Setrona seems like a good candidate - anybody else?</p>Gearing up to start this AP in a few weeks, and I wanted some opinions from all of you cool folks. My group does very graphically detailed virtual tabletop games, so it would be easy enough to slip tokens for some characters from later in the adventure into the Aria Park protest to have the players maybe notice as familiar later on (and potentially influence them toward making allies). So far, Setrona seems like a good candidate - anybody else?Kaladin_Stormblessed2023-03-05T03:47:46ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: Ask *James Jacobs* ALL your Questions Here!Kaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=1612?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Questions-Here#805942021-01-30T01:41:53Z2021-01-30T01:41:53Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">James Jacobs wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
If by "average person" you mean the typical 1st level commoner or expert, then not much at all. There's certainly common knowledge that there's an afterlife, and that there are outsiders and gods and all that, but the person's faith and their upbringing will color that information if they don't actually take ranks in Religion or a Lore skill associated with another plane.</p>
<p>Taking Cheliax in particular, they're probably fed the Asmodean line of "Do well, obey the government, follow orders, and in the afterlife you will be awarded a position of power in the ranks of the infernal. Fail, and you will be eternally tortured." </blockquote><p>Thanks for the answer!
<p>I'm also specifically curious about Vyre. I'm playing a TN cleric of Norgorber currently, and I'd like your thoughts on what's a reasonable perspective for him.</p>James Jacobs wrote:If by "average person" you mean the typical 1st level commoner or expert, then not much at all. There's certainly common knowledge that there's an afterlife, and that there are outsiders and gods and all that, but the person's faith and their upbringing will color that information if they don't actually take ranks in Religion or a Lore skill associated with another plane.Taking Cheliax in particular, they're probably fed the Asmodean line of "Do well, obey the government,...Kaladin_Stormblessed2021-01-30T01:41:53ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: Ask *James Jacobs* ALL your Questions Here!Kaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=1612?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Questions-Here#805922021-01-30T01:15:31Z2021-01-30T01:15:31Z<p>How much do you figure an average person in Golarion would know about the Outer Planes in terms of afterlife? Like, I would assume there's some real-world analogous idea of "if you're good, you go to heaven", but what about for communities with non-LG-aligned dominant religions? Do kids in Cheliax get told to behave so they'll go to Hell when they die, the same way?</p>How much do you figure an average person in Golarion would know about the Outer Planes in terms of afterlife? Like, I would assume there's some real-world analogous idea of "if you're good, you go to heaven", but what about for communities with non-LG-aligned dominant religions? Do kids in Cheliax get told to behave so they'll go to Hell when they die, the same way?Kaladin_Stormblessed2021-01-30T01:15:31ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: Ask *James Jacobs* ALL your Questions Here!Kaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=1587?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Questions-Here#793252020-07-25T15:52:46Z2020-07-25T15:52:46Z<p>Thanks for the answer!</p>
<p>More specifically, would it be unusual for a cleric of Norgorber to uphold the Promises of Vyre?</p>Thanks for the answer!
More specifically, would it be unusual for a cleric of Norgorber to uphold the Promises of Vyre?Kaladin_Stormblessed2020-07-25T15:52:46ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: Ask *James Jacobs* ALL your Questions Here!Kaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=1587?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Questions-Here#793162020-07-24T01:10:02Z2020-07-24T01:10:02Z<p>How much would Norgorber be opposed to infighting between his followers?</p>How much would Norgorber be opposed to infighting between his followers?Kaladin_Stormblessed2020-07-24T01:10:02ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: Ask *James Jacobs* ALL your Questions Here!Kaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=1574?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Questions-Here#786812020-05-06T00:06:23Z2020-05-06T00:06:23Z<p>Me and my group were noticing that several APs have, in the first book, a path of some sort to the Darklands, with seemingly none to fairly minimal relevance to the adventure.</p>
<p>Is there a deliberate theme or hidden purpose to these paths? Are they coincidental, or just amusing easter eggs, or foreshadowing/hinting for some kind of big (and probably very cool!) plan for the Darklands?</p>
<p>We're having a lot of fun speculating about the pattern, either way.</p>
<p>Thanks in advance~</p>Me and my group were noticing that several APs have, in the first book, a path of some sort to the Darklands, with seemingly none to fairly minimal relevance to the adventure.
Is there a deliberate theme or hidden purpose to these paths? Are they coincidental, or just amusing easter eggs, or foreshadowing/hinting for some kind of big (and probably very cool!) plan for the Darklands?
We're having a lot of fun speculating about the pattern, either way.
Thanks in advance~Kaladin_Stormblessed2020-05-06T00:06:23ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: Ask *James Jacobs* ALL your Questions Here!Kaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=1570?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Questions-Here#784782020-04-02T11:28:17Z2020-03-30T05:19:28Z<p>After Taldan, what would you say would be the most commonly spoken language in Vyre?</p>After Taldan, what would you say would be the most commonly spoken language in Vyre?Kaladin_Stormblessed2020-03-30T05:19:28ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: Ask *James Jacobs* ALL your Questions Here!Kaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=1556?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Questions-Here#777962020-01-18T11:39:50Z2020-01-18T07:23:02Z<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>One more question, since I asked my GM and we puzzled over it for a few minutes and she suggested asking here; what do verbal spell components (at least within the setting) actually consist of? Mystic chanting? Shorter but still magicky-sounding specific incarnations, ie Avada Kedavra? Whatever-personally-feels-magic-to-the-caster, whether that's just shouting "FIREBALL!", or thematic nursery rhymes, or number sequences, or etc?</p>Thanks!
One more question, since I asked my GM and we puzzled over it for a few minutes and she suggested asking here; what do verbal spell components (at least within the setting) actually consist of? Mystic chanting? Shorter but still magicky-sounding specific incarnations, ie Avada Kedavra? Whatever-personally-feels-magic-to-the-caster, whether that's just shouting "FIREBALL!", or thematic nursery rhymes, or number sequences, or etc?Kaladin_Stormblessed2020-01-18T07:23:02ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: Ask *James Jacobs* ALL your Questions Here!Kaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=1556?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Questions-Here#777942020-01-18T03:31:39Z2020-01-18T03:31:39Z<p>Can you elaborate as to how much correlation there is in Golarion between being a divine caster and formally being part of a priesthood? At least in your own opinion?</p>Can you elaborate as to how much correlation there is in Golarion between being a divine caster and formally being part of a priesthood? At least in your own opinion?Kaladin_Stormblessed2020-01-18T03:31:39ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Shadows of the Muscle WizardKaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42m9e?Shadows-of-the-Muscle-Wizard#82019-07-04T03:44:32Z2019-07-04T03:44:32Z<p>I played an inquisitor once who was formerly an ex-paladin, and was trying to keep up the image of being a paladin. It was a fun time. Sadly, the campaign didn't really continue long enough for any kind of reveal.</p>I played an inquisitor once who was formerly an ex-paladin, and was trying to keep up the image of being a paladin. It was a fun time. Sadly, the campaign didn't really continue long enough for any kind of reveal.Kaladin_Stormblessed2019-07-04T03:44:32ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: Ask *James Jacobs* ALL your Questions Here!Kaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=1509?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Questions-Here#754292019-06-01T14:35:58Z2019-06-01T14:35:58Z<p>How is Vyre pronounced? (Or, at least, how do you pronounce it.) Rhymes with fear or rhymes with fire?</p>How is Vyre pronounced? (Or, at least, how do you pronounce it.) Rhymes with fear or rhymes with fire?Kaladin_Stormblessed2019-06-01T14:35:58ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder Second Edition: General Discussion: Paizo Blog: Iconic Evolution: KyraKaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sgk3&page=2?Iconic-Evolution-Kyra#692019-05-06T21:27:13Z2019-03-30T04:23:26Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Xenocrat wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Kaladin_Stormblessed wrote:</div><blockquote> Medieval Arabic clothing, especially for women, was just huge and poofy like that. Which is presumably the inspiration here. The art's not bad, it's well-researched. I for one like it. </blockquote>How effective did it make them in combat? </blockquote><p>Something like this? Would have also been similar to what men wore, including over armor in combat. So, plenty effective.
<p>Oh, and I portray a 12th century Saracen in the Society for Creative Anachronism. The costume I wear for fencing is pretty similar to Kyra's outfit, actually. So, I can speak from personal experience here. Notice how her pants are tucked into her boots, the wider sleeves of the overrobe don't go fully down her arm and stop short enough to not entangle her sword hilt, etc. The overrobe is a little long but could easily be belted up. And I've won fencing bouts because someone hit the edge of my tunic instead of successfully hitting me; having a concealed figure can be an advantage.</p>
<p>Yeah, I don't think Kyra's outfit will hinder her.</p>Xenocrat wrote:Kaladin_Stormblessed wrote: Medieval Arabic clothing, especially for women, was just huge and poofy like that. Which is presumably the inspiration here. The art's not bad, it's well-researched. I for one like it.
How effective did it make them in combat? Something like this? Would have also been similar to what men wore, including over armor in combat. So, plenty effective. Oh, and I portray a 12th century Saracen in the Society for Creative Anachronism. The costume I wear for...Kaladin_Stormblessed2019-03-30T04:23:26ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder Second Edition: General Discussion: Paizo Blog: Iconic Evolution: KyraKaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sgk3?Iconic-Evolution-Kyra#392019-04-04T16:45:01Z2019-03-28T04:02:00Z<p>Medieval Arabic clothing, especially for women, was just huge and poofy like that. Which is presumably the inspiration here. The art's not bad, it's well-researched. I for one like it.</p>Medieval Arabic clothing, especially for women, was just huge and poofy like that. Which is presumably the inspiration here. The art's not bad, it's well-researched. I for one like it.Kaladin_Stormblessed2019-03-28T04:02:00ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: Ask *James Jacobs* ALL your Questions Here!Kaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=1495?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Questions-Here#747242019-03-04T02:42:40Z2019-03-04T02:42:40Z<p>What's the proper title/form of address for a priest of Norgorber?</p>What's the proper title/form of address for a priest of Norgorber?Kaladin_Stormblessed2019-03-04T02:42:40ZRe: Forums: Ancestries & Backgrounds: Hybrid ancestry and content expansionKaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42f0v?Hybrid-ancestry-and-content-expansion#42018-12-28T01:45:18Z2018-12-28T01:06:06Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Themetricsystem wrote:</div><blockquote><p> FWIR there was talk of possible just opening up those half-XXXX ancestry options to ALL races wherever appropriate.</p>
<p>So for example you have your Gnome right, but instead your heritage can have Changeling,aasimar etc and the mechanics of the abilities all just WORK in a drag and drop style.</p>
<p>I doubt we will be looking at these type of ancestries as "Human Sub-types" as much as we will as looking at them as general purpose Ancestries that can be accessed via the Human (Or other with GM approval I'm guessing).</p>
<p>I'd MUCH rather see a PC being able to elect into specific Ancestry Feats and options of their choice by DEFAULT in PF2 over the way it was handled in PF1 where each Race got their own predefined, unchanging list that then have to be cannibalized with "replacement" abilities in supplements over time. This is MUCH simpler to simply give a new Silo that the player can fill rather than hand them a puzzle they are allowed to swap out certain pieces for.</p>
<p>/2c </blockquote><p>I like the idea of simply choosing abilities instead of getting a certain set and being maybe allowed to swap them out, often with a great deal of finagling to get a good combination.
<p>But I think there's better ways to do that than slowly gaining abilities every five levels that have already been established in setting lore as basic capabilities of that race. (most annoying one to me being half-orcs losing darkvision until 5)</p>
<p>And I feel like the ancestries survey failed on giving people a good way to voice opinions on this. Neither "I like that these features aren't mandatory, but I think spending a feat for them is too high a cost" and "I prefer all [dwarves/elves/etc] gain these features" is a good way to communicate wanting more than one or two basic ancestry abilities to be easily possible to start with or gain early on, but still having customization too.</p>
<p>(Personally, I'd like a similar amount of abilities gained at level 1 as in PF1, but with it built in to the core rules that you can choose them from X options, ideally in a more streamlined way than "you can swap out A for B or C, you can swap out Z for X or Y, you can swap out A and Z for N", and keep ancestry feats for scaling abilities or higher-level abilities like the stuff from PF1 racial feats.)</p>Themetricsystem wrote:FWIR there was talk of possible just opening up those half-XXXX ancestry options to ALL races wherever appropriate.
So for example you have your Gnome right, but instead your heritage can have Changeling,aasimar etc and the mechanics of the abilities all just WORK in a drag and drop style.
I doubt we will be looking at these type of ancestries as "Human Sub-types" as much as we will as looking at them as general purpose Ancestries that can be accessed via the Human (Or...Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-12-28T01:06:06ZForums: Ancestries & Backgrounds: Hybrid ancestry and content expansionKaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42f0v?Hybrid-ancestry-and-content-expansion#12018-12-27T19:35:54Z2018-12-27T19:35:54Z<p>So, in addition to several other reasons• why I dislike how the playtest handled half-elves and half-orcs, a major concern of mine is how Paizo will handle adding more heritage feats after the CRB.</p>
<p>I'm assuming, at least, that they will add more heritage feats. There may not be specific plans for it yet, but it would surprise me if over the entire course of PF2, they were content to not add more.</p>
<p>Right now, having four options for heritage feats if you want to be a gnome, one if you want to be a half-elf, and two if you want to be a human feels somewhat weird, and it feels uncomfortably less customizable to me to play a half-elf or half-orc. But that's only going to get worse, say, once we have nine options for heritage feats for gnomes, five for regular humans, and one for half-elves. Which is kinda lame, especially since heritage feats are imo an amazing way to handle stuff the different aasimar/tiefling/changeling/dhampir/etc variants. And not a great way to make an impression on new players when that's half the way they can customize their character by ancestry for the first quarter of the game.</p>
<p>Unless Paizo's plan is to just expand them anyway. Which also feels awkward to me, imagining a list of human heritage feats needing different individual feats allowing you to be something like five different kinds of half-orc, five different kinds of half-elf, four different kinds of dhampir, etc. And then six kinds of aasimar, six kinds of tiefling, eight kinds of changeling... it sounds like it would be much tidier to give the PF1 races their own ancestry and their own list of feats.</p>
<p>I guess it's Paizo's game and if this is how they want to handle it... but if it's something feedback is wanted on, personally I question whether anyone who actually plays those races is in favor of it.</p>
<p>•(having to use half a feat on knowing a potentially native language originally, post-update not necessarily being able to access it at all without a non-ancestry feat, the "free" heritage feat imo <i>increasing</i> how mechanically inferior a choice it is to Versatile Heritage or Skilled Heritage, and it just plain not feeling as fun to play a human with the Half-Orc heritage feat)</p>So, in addition to several other reasons* why I dislike how the playtest handled half-elves and half-orcs, a major concern of mine is how Paizo will handle adding more heritage feats after the CRB.
I'm assuming, at least, that they will add more heritage feats. There may not be specific plans for it yet, but it would surprise me if over the entire course of PF2, they were content to not add more.
Right now, having four options for heritage feats if you want to be a gnome, one if you want to...Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-12-27T19:35:54ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Please Don't Call it "Thievery"Kaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ezt?Please-Dont-Call-it-Thievery#212019-01-02T10:45:57Z2018-12-26T22:54:54Z<p>I agree with it would be nicer to have a different name. (Although I do like to some extent that the skills were condensed. Often needing Stealth, Sleight of Hand, Bluff, AND Disable Device felt like an awkward income tax on rogues' skill points.)</p>
<p>As for morally okay uses of it. Uhh... my LG paladin of Iomedae in Wrath of the Righteous has max ranks in Disable Device and has picked locks a bunch of times. She hasn't fallen for not using enough brute force while rescuing prisoners, and I'm pretty sure she shouldn't. Her spyglass archon cohort is also pretty good at it.</p>
<p>Regarding breaking down doors being "fairer"... honorable does not mean stupid. Paladins are not forced to give their enemies maximum time to be ready for attack. I mean, there've been canon instances of Golarion paladins being spied on, and if they had to broadcast attack plans for the sake of honor, there wouldn't be much need for that, right?</p>I agree with it would be nicer to have a different name. (Although I do like to some extent that the skills were condensed. Often needing Stealth, Sleight of Hand, Bluff, AND Disable Device felt like an awkward income tax on rogues' skill points.)
As for morally okay uses of it. Uhh... my LG paladin of Iomedae in Wrath of the Righteous has max ranks in Disable Device and has picked locks a bunch of times. She hasn't fallen for not using enough brute force while rescuing prisoners, and I'm...Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-12-26T22:54:54ZRe: Forums: Classes: One thing that needs to be changed in a class, in your opinionKaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ego&page=2?One-thing-that-needs-to-be-changed-in-a-class#602019-01-04T04:33:05Z2018-12-26T02:50:59Z<p>Retributive Strike.</p>
<p>Between Retributive Strike's trigger and Smite Evil's conditions (have to witness an ally/innocent be harmed before being able to use it...), 2e paladin does <i>not</i> feel even in terms of flavor like it's about stopping evil, but about avenging buddies. Which may or may not actually correspond to any particularly LG causes. "I don't like my friends getting hurt" is really pretty Neutral. Retributive Strike feels more reminiscent of the Vindictive Bastard <i>ex-</i>paladin archetype than it does of paladins. </p>
<p>And this is in terms of flavor. In terms of gameplay... it's ideal to specifically position oneself in such a way as to <i>not</i> prevent allies from being attacked. That is the opposite of being a paladin. I get that probably these abilities were supposed to <i>feel</i> like "attacking him was a big mistake and you're going to pay for it" cool, but in three segments of Doomsday Dawn as a paladin, it has not felt like that even once for me. It's felt like my main ability differentiating my character from the next guy's, and therefore something where I should be trying to set up chances to use it. But setting up chances to use it means doing things that are cruddy. <i>One of my only mandatory class features encourages not roleplaying that class.</i></p>
<p>It's also still hard on archer paladins, even with Ranged Reprisal helping a bit. And archer paladins don't need more disadvantage on top of archery losing the feats that made it strong and being stuck with +2 Str.</p>
<p>I think it can work and be cool as an optional class feat with less of the class's scaling and power based around it, but I don't think it should be a central ability.</p>Retributive Strike.
Between Retributive Strike's trigger and Smite Evil's conditions (have to witness an ally/innocent be harmed before being able to use it...), 2e paladin does not feel even in terms of flavor like it's about stopping evil, but about avenging buddies. Which may or may not actually correspond to any particularly LG causes. "I don't like my friends getting hurt" is really pretty Neutral. Retributive Strike feels more reminiscent of the Vindictive Bastard ex-paladin archetype...Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-12-26T02:50:59ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: When Did Your Character "Feel" Useless During the PlaytestKaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ekj?When-Did-Your-Character-Feel-Useless-During#342018-12-23T05:21:46Z2018-12-23T05:21:46Z<p>In part 2, playing a sorcerer, having carefully saved my stronger spell slots for if they were needed later, but then the party chose to rest and I wasn't able to cast Heal because I only knew the level 1 version. Ending up with "I wish I unnecessarily heightened some things so I could use a weaker spell now" felt weird and didn't make sense.</p>
<p>Two major things in part 5, playing an archer paladin (v. 1.6).</p>
<p>First was having to wait for Smite Evil to be usable, since we deemed it to require <i>successful</i> harm and not just <i>attempted</i> harm, an enemy had to hit/cause a failed save/etc first. And while my GM deemed it a legal trigger, personally I felt it was unclear whether an enemy attacking the paladin themselves qualified, as "ally OR innocent" wouldn't be needed if the PCs were presumed reasonably innocent (I can get that it might allow for non-good PCs, but in scenarios where an ally was particularly non-innocent, like guards chasing the party rogue after a flubbed pickpocketing, I don't personally think a paladin should be able to use Smite <i>Evil</i>, or choose to, so I'm skeptical that it's meant to cover something like that) so I wondered if "innocent" was supposed to be in the sense of "innocent bystander" ie not a moral judgment but whether they in some way contributed to the outbreak of hostilities. So there were several rounds where my Mendevian crusader paladin, with Fiendsbane Oath and every reason to default to suspicion of anything demonic, was not able to use Smite Evil on a demon that was specifically approaching the party and pretty obviously intending to attack. This felt silly.
<br />
I'd much rather Smite Evil be in the form of something like the Grey Paladin's smite, if the idea was making it more versatile and more based on friend vs foe rather than alignment. Alternately, if the concern was people using it to test alignment, or that it's unpaladinly to Smite Evil everyone indiscriminately and see if it works, or that maybe the random sleazy lawyer with an evil alignment but who's minding his own business shouldn't be a target for it, I'd rather it have some kind of backlash if used on a target without evil intent.</p>
<p>The second was that Retributive Strike was useless and unusable when my paladin was the only one standing, just when it would feel most right for them to make a heroic last stand or something more effectively.</p>
<p>Part 6 went better... the main thing was just that my characters (I was controlling two PCs since we had a player drop out and didn't want to be undermanned) had nearly maxed out social skills, but this apparently meant I couldn't even expect them to reliably be able to not flub basic manners. The combination of critical failures, tight math, and true specialization in skills only being through items, made this feel sucky and the PCs inappropriately incompetent.</p>In part 2, playing a sorcerer, having carefully saved my stronger spell slots for if they were needed later, but then the party chose to rest and I wasn't able to cast Heal because I only knew the level 1 version. Ending up with "I wish I unnecessarily heightened some things so I could use a weaker spell now" felt weird and didn't make sense.
Two major things in part 5, playing an archer paladin (v. 1.6).
First was having to wait for Smite Evil to be usable, since we deemed it to require...Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-12-23T05:21:46ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Can Someone Explain What's Going On?Kaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ewy?Can-Someone-Explain-Whats-Going-On#92019-01-01T08:38:54Z2018-12-23T04:58:37Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Dante Doom wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Don't expect Pathfinder 1.5
</p>
It's a new game mate, and a playtest! </blockquote><p>I would have preferred Pathfinder 1.5. Something that didn't tie itself to D&D compatibility and carryovers from 3.5 and setting vagueness, but was still not more different than it had reason to be. I don't know how much it will persist in the final version, but so far 2e feels worryingly like some changes were made largely for the sake of change and making it a sufficiently new system to justify new books.
<p>(I know that's essentially what we got with Unchained, but the difference is that Unchained was an alternate ruleset and not a new ruleset. And thus not assumed later, and there were probably fewer changes that could be made.)</p>Dante Doom wrote:Don't expect Pathfinder 1.5
It's a new game mate, and a playtest!
I would have preferred Pathfinder 1.5. Something that didn't tie itself to D&D compatibility and carryovers from 3.5 and setting vagueness, but was still not more different than it had reason to be. I don't know how much it will persist in the final version, but so far 2e feels worryingly like some changes were made largely for the sake of change and making it a sufficiently new system to justify new books....Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-12-23T04:58:37ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: While +1/level is a problem, removing it alone is not a solution.Kaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42e7h&page=4?While-1level-is-a-problem-removing-it-alone#1952018-12-13T19:47:14Z2018-12-11T01:12:29Z<p>Obviously, yes, challenges for higher-level characters do need to be comparatively higher. The issue is, as presented in the playtest, +1/level feels like an oversimplified way of doing this. Being high-level feels fairly meaningless, to me, in terms of everything but spell access and a couple of class features. For comparison, in 1e, higher level play felt defined by the amount of difference between things my PC was good at, and things they weren't. In one game, this took the form that I couldn't just coast on being sorta okay at melee combat, because AC would improve faster than my attack modifiers, but I could feel confident that I could get a basic success on nearly all Intimidate checks, for instance. That was fun. That made level advancement mean something besides just inflated numbers.</p>
<p>My group just finished Red Flags, and I did not feel that way at all there. My wizard, who was highly specialized in Diplomacy, still had only slightly better than even odds of succeeding at any given Diplomacy check (using the updated DCs), and thus significant odds of a critical failure too. This was with characters who were supposed to be extraordinary and highly-talented. Instead every single skill check was eliciting groans, because it meant things our characters were meant to be incredible at, they could quite possibly screw up completely. It felt like level 1 in most 1e games: all the PCs are just slightly better than average even at things they're good at, and the world is a very risky place to be a normal person in the face of orcs and trolls. For all that training, you still might falter at a critical moment. I like that feeling at level 1, but not at level 14.</p>
<p>The other thing that I don't like about it, is the contrast with the attempted tight math. Being "legendary" instead of trained is a whole +3 more. And grants access to some skill feats. That does <i>not</i> feel "legendary" to me. It's really hard to feel like I can customize characters meaningfully, when the difference between having, say, incredible Deception vs pretty okay Deception is... something like +3 proficiency, maybe a +3 from an item, and with the same Charisma score that would be it. But let's go ahead and say it's +6 vs +3 from Charisma, because with ability scores gained as in the playtest, getting a 16 in a pretty much unneeded stat at high levels is very doable. Let's say it's level 15, to maximize relevance of skill training compared to level. So that's going to be... 1d20+27, vs 1d20+18. That's... okay, I guess. Better than 1d20+24 vs 1d20+18, assuming my character is meant to be good at Deception without being amazingly charismatic. Or 1d20+31/1d20+28 compared to 1d20+23 at level 20. Either way, it feels unimpressive. The largest factor is randomness. The second largest factor is level. Me deciding to make my character good at Deception is the smallest factor. My character having practiced being good at lying, however many years they spent playing poker or making up stories in front of a mirror or getting by as a thief, whatever, account for a measly +3. Equal to the significance of having a nice magic ring. Equal to a relatively minor fluctuation in die rolls. For a game/setting meant to be about human limitations and futility in the face of magic and destiny, sure! But I don't think that's the genre Pathfinder is meant to be.</p>Obviously, yes, challenges for higher-level characters do need to be comparatively higher. The issue is, as presented in the playtest, +1/level feels like an oversimplified way of doing this. Being high-level feels fairly meaningless, to me, in terms of everything but spell access and a couple of class features. For comparison, in 1e, higher level play felt defined by the amount of difference between things my PC was good at, and things they weren't. In one game, this took the form that I...Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-12-11T01:12:29ZRe: Forums: Classes: An Analysis of the 1.6 Paladin VariantsKaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42dzb?An-Analysis-of-the-16-Paladin-Variants#202018-12-05T20:39:38Z2018-12-05T08:21:37Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Deadmanwalking wrote:</div><blockquote><p>So, a LG Paladin could buy slaves in order to free them and turn a prisoner over into enforced servitude for legitimate crimes. A Liberator? Can manage the first if it's the only option to free those people (but not otherwise), and can't do the second at all.</p>
<p>Well, lying to people about anything important for no reason starts being an Evil act pretty quick. It's only when you have good reasons that it becomes justifiable (unless you're a LG Paladin, of course).</p>
<p>No, but I think "Slavery is terrible, but I'm a bit busy fighting demons to make it a priority." is an entirely reasonable LG Paladin attitude to possess...and a lot less so for a CG one</p>
<p>A CG character will obey the law as long as it doesn't get in the way of doing whatever they believe is right. But that's a sharply demarcated line and one they're likely to cross often even in a LG society.</blockquote><p>This sounds exactly like what I think, though.
<p>A LG paladin will prioritize doing good over preserving order, but only as much as necessary. They'll break the law if needed to save lives or something, but generally will try to work with the system.
<br />
And they'll prioritize doing good over protecting people's freedom, generally, even if there would be ways around the conflict they're not really obligated to find those ways. If the simplest way for them to help a slave starts with buying the slave, it doesn't have to be a last resort. But they should still take freedom and individual rights into consideration, ideally. Even if they should only fall for egregious/deliberate unconcern, if at all, it still is at some point an aspect of being Good to care somewhat.</p>
<p>Conversely, a CG paladin will prioritize doing good over protecting freedom, but only as much as necessary. They'll stop freeing the slaves and go fight the demons when it really comes down to it, but you're absolutely right that doing something about slavery should be their usual focus.
<br />
And they'll prioritize doing good over upholding the law, generally, even if there would be ways around the conflict they're not really obligated to find those ways. If they can help an orphan by stealing some food from Baron Snootyrich who won't miss it, they should be able to do so. But they should still take law and order into consideration, even if not as a priority over any amount of doing good. Etc. (And I don't think it should be solely pragmatism, because a sensible CG character should imo be able to recognize that some laws and traditions help people coordinate things and work together, and breaking them willy-nilly could often interfere with what other people are doing.)</p>
<p>So, essentially, priorities would be this:</p>
<p>LG:
<br />
- Do the big good deeds and stop the big threats. If it takes acting contrary to law and order, do what has to be done to prioritize good, but try to minimize that conflict.
<br />
- Uphold law and order
<br />
- Do good in little and convenient ways, but work within the system and by the rules when possible.
<br />
- Respect freedom and individual rights</p>
<p>CG:
<br />
- Do the big good deeds and stop the big threats. If it takes setting aside protecting others' freedom, do what has to be done to prioritize good, but try to minimize that conflict.
<br />
- Uphold freedom and individual rights
<br />
- Do good in little and convenient ways, but don't ignore tyranny or sacrifice others' freedom to do it.
<br />
- Respect morally valid authority and laws</p>
<p>So, this could easily be represented by prioritizing the alignment tenets differently, and maybe using less absolute versions of different-alignment ones. Instead of unnecessarily potentially implying they're only at all relevant to that alignment.</p>Deadmanwalking wrote:So, a LG Paladin could buy slaves in order to free them and turn a prisoner over into enforced servitude for legitimate crimes. A Liberator? Can manage the first if it's the only option to free those people (but not otherwise), and can't do the second at all.
Well, lying to people about anything important for no reason starts being an Evil act pretty quick. It's only when you have good reasons that it becomes justifiable (unless you're a LG Paladin, of course).
No, but...Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-12-05T08:21:37ZRe: Forums: Classes: An Analysis of the 1.6 Paladin VariantsKaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42dzb?An-Analysis-of-the-16-Paladin-Variants#172018-12-05T20:39:38Z2018-12-05T05:37:09Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Deadmanwalking wrote:</div><blockquote>Yes it does, and it probably should. You need to think of these in context, which is that all are subordinate to the Paladin not committing Evil Acts, and also subordinate to protecting innocents. That really just fixes many of your seeming problems with them.</blockquote><p>I'd love for it to work that way. But I don't think it's going to.
<p>People can't even agree here on if casting evil spells is evil, or if torture is evil, or if raising undead is evil, or if killing baby goblins is evil. You think they'll suddenly agree on if Liberator Bob flirting with the barmaid behind his wife's back is evil? Because I sure don't. </p>
<p>And, if these things were so clearly evil, why call them out at all? I think it should be obvious that taking advantage of people or engaging in slavery is evil, definitely. But solely looking at the writing without accounting for anyone having a moral compass... if the alignment tenets are all meant to be subordinate to protecting innocents and not committing evil acts, then logically it makes sense to assume anything in them isn't redundant. As it's written now, why would they specifically forbid Liberators from engaging in slavery, unless the other alignments could?</p>
<p>And no, I don't think all alignments should be held to all of these rules as strictly as they're written now. I tried to say as much.
<br />
But I <i>do</i> think all or most of them are at least somewhat applicable as guidelines. Yeah, I think it should be okay for a Liberator to lie, but I also don't think any Good character should be routinely lying - actually lying, not just boasting or exaggerating or flattering or whatever - without some substantial reason for it. Yeah, I don't think any paladins have to want to go hug that thief, but I do think every single paladin ideally should care about them not being treated unduly harshly. And every single paladin or other LG character of mine who's lived for long in a place with commonplace slavery <i>has</i> made a consistent effort against it, maybe by trying to change the laws, personally freeing slaves, trying to influence public opinion, etc instead of breaking chains, but no, I don't think "slavery is kinda icky but it's not my responsibility to change" is an acceptable viewpoint for a LG character.</p>
<p>And respect for authority and the law is not the same as always following the law. It can be as simple as "I wouldn't make this many laws personally, but the king is a decent fellow and means well, even if I didn't vote for him." Yeah, I don't think that should be strictly and completely required for CG, but I do think it should still be a recommendation that even if the town guards aren't such fun guys, you still generally respect that they're trying to do their part.</p>
<p>But yeah. Important part is, the tenets are written in a way that implies they aren't redundant, and thus these things are only prohibited for that alignment, even if common sense imo says otherwise. And I'd really rather they be written in a way that doesn't rely on common sense that much, what with how lacking it can be at times.</p>Deadmanwalking wrote:Yes it does, and it probably should. You need to think of these in context, which is that all are subordinate to the Paladin not committing Evil Acts, and also subordinate to protecting innocents. That really just fixes many of your seeming problems with them.
I'd love for it to work that way. But I don't think it's going to. People can't even agree here on if casting evil spells is evil, or if torture is evil, or if raising undead is evil, or if killing baby goblins is...Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-12-05T05:37:09ZForums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Alternate ways of giving detailed feedbackKaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42e5t?Alternate-ways-of-giving-detailed-feedback#12018-12-06T19:44:39Z2018-12-05T04:53:16Z<p>Something just hit me fully that I'd been thinking for a while but hadn't quite defined to myself yet. I don't like the apparent focus on this forum.</p>
<p>I do want to start this out by saying, I appreciate Paizo doing an open playtest at all, and reading this forum and the surveys and all. It's still really cool. And I appreciate the work you're all doing to keep things relatively positive and non-toxic. The fillable "other" options categories in more of the survey questions is helping a lot too, and I do like that.</p>
<p>But my mindset this week has been pretty much "I guess I have to post so I can say what I think before the end of the playtest window, and stop putting it off." It's not that I don't have time to write anything, my Recent Documents page is full of post drafts. After nearly every session, every evening set aside for character-building, every completed survey, I've been writing my opinions and experiences as articulately and constructively as I can. And then it all sits around in my computer, waiting for a time when I feel like looking for a relevant existing thread to post in per Vic's advice, reading through at least a few pages of it, posting something, and trying to respond to replies, without wanting to just faceplant and go to bed because whoa why are people arguing whether the Liberator code of conduct disallows stopping a mugger.</p>
<p>Because I love all you guys, and I know many sites would be a lot more toxic, but there's a lot of ambient frustration and opinions running high in here, and maybe sometimes I want a way to express more feedback than a 1-5 scale without presenting my opinions for public dissection. And I realized today, I am <i>far</i> from the shyest, most withdrawn person I know, so if I feel like this, how many other people haven't spoken up at all?</p>
<p>And yeah, I know it's how previous playtests have been done, it just feels a little different to me. If someone doesn't like how something else turns out, say, Mythic or vigilantes, they can just not play those, or even exclude those things from their games. There's going to be more content they'll like in a few months. Just get the next book instead. But with 2e, that's not really so much of an option to just wait for something else. So I think it's a little more important this time around.</p>
<p>But then I start thinking again, "it's just a way of making sure the people who are listened to are the ones who are really dedicated to the game." Except that doesn't seem right when I think about it better. I don't know if the idea <i>was</i> something like that or if that was just my own rationalization, but if that was the point, I don't really agree with it. That's the same sort of reasoning as "if you don't like happy hour at the club, you're not a good fit for this company." Comfort level with the community on a section of the official site is not a gauge of liking the game.</p>
<p>I don't really know if it's possible to do anything about it, let alone now. Maybe I should have posted this earlier. Maybe I should just start another thread or two focusing on just giving personal opinions and not discussing anyone else's, myself. But I just figured I'd toss the perspective out here. Because maybe there's other people who don't want to deal with the Trial by Internet Debate to prove their fanhood and say their two cents, who are more reticent than me to post, so in case anyone at Paizo has a cool idea for a solution, I think this could use it.</p>Something just hit me fully that I'd been thinking for a while but hadn't quite defined to myself yet. I don't like the apparent focus on this forum.
I do want to start this out by saying, I appreciate Paizo doing an open playtest at all, and reading this forum and the surveys and all. It's still really cool. And I appreciate the work you're all doing to keep things relatively positive and non-toxic. The fillable "other" options categories in more of the survey questions is helping a lot...Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-12-05T04:53:16ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Should we have ability scores in Second Edition?Kaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42e0f?Should-we-have-ability-scores-in-Second-Edition#102018-12-04T17:37:37Z2018-12-03T00:52:31Z<p>I'd be fine with getting rid of ability scores, but not in the same game as "legendary means you have +3 more than your buddy who practiced a bit!" Not in the same game as "well, the DC is based on your level, and your skill mod is based on your level, so if you're a master you have a slightly better chance of succeeding than failing, and are only a little likely to fall on your face." 2e already has so many ways of making the PCs feel like chumps, I don't think it can afford to also swap out "you have 12 strength!" for "you have 1 strength", purely in terms of psychology and appeal.</p>I'd be fine with getting rid of ability scores, but not in the same game as "legendary means you have +3 more than your buddy who practiced a bit!" Not in the same game as "well, the DC is based on your level, and your skill mod is based on your level, so if you're a master you have a slightly better chance of succeeding than failing, and are only a little likely to fall on your face." 2e already has so many ways of making the PCs feel like chumps, I don't think it can afford to also swap out...Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-12-03T00:52:31ZForums: Classes: An Analysis of the 1.6 Paladin VariantsKaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42dzb?An-Analysis-of-the-16-Paladin-Variants#12018-12-11T08:16:44Z2018-12-01T20:24:52Z<p>Alright. Not that there's any shortage of ranting about paladins, but here's my additional two cents for the wishing fountain...</p>
<p>First of all, to get this straight, I'm not really opposed to non-LG paladin variants or equivalents. In fact, I like the idea, as long as they are handled with respect for the role of the "traditional" paladin. What I see as conditions of this are as follows:
<br />
- Existing paladin concepts are not invalidated or degraded.
<br />
- LG paladins are still the norm and default, in-universe and ideally OOC too.
<br />
- Traditional paladins not be pushed into some overstereotyped "LG is the alignment of murdering baby goblins for da greater good" pigeonhole for the sake of contrast.</p>
<p>Now, why I feel the 1.6 paladin breaks these rules.</p>
<p>First of all, the means of choice. Something being in the CRB is, as I understand it, generally indicated to represent a certain status. These things are relatively basic to the universe and are expected to be always accessible. It is, in essence, the first indicator of rarity, in absence of any specification. And alignment is presented as a basic choice, comparable to a sorcerer's bloodline or a wizard's arcane school. Even if the umbrella name of the class is changed, that won't change the implication that CG "champions" or whatever are just as normal and standard a choice as LG ones.</p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p>Potential fixes: Either delaying variant paladins a book or two, and/or handling them similarly to the current (and not-liked-by-me) implementation of half-humans by letting you use your first class feat to get "you can be this alignment, which gives you this ability" to at least present it as a divergence from the norm, and/or making them archetypes of the original 1e style (I liked all the 1e paladin alignment-variant archetypes, and would have welcomed a CG one of it was done in that way) would all solve this in my opinion. At the least, a little bit of flavor text saying non-LG paladins are uncommon would be nice, but by itself would feel a little insufficient. But it would be better than nothing.</p>
<p>Second concern: the codes of conduct. IMO, the way it was subdivided actually encourages Lawful Stupid interpretations of traditional paladins, and similarly poor roleplaying of others.</p>
<p>LG:
<br />
• You must act with honor, never cheating, lying, or taking advantage of others.
<br />
• You must respect the lawful authority of the legitimate ruler or leadership in whichever land you may be, following their laws unless they violate a higher tenet.
<br />
NG:
<br />
• You must first try to redeem or rehabilitate those who commit evil acts, rather than immediately killing them or meting out undeserved punishment. However, if they choose to continue on a wicked path, you might need to take more extreme measures, especially if innocents would come to harm.
<br />
• You must show compassion for others, regardless of their authority or station.
<br />
CG:
<br />
• You must respect the choices others make for their own lives and can’t force someone to act in a particular way or threaten them if they don’t act that way.
<br />
• You must demand and fight for the freedom of others to make their own decisions. You must never engage in or countenance slavery or tyranny.</p>
<p>Here's the thing. <i>All of these</i>, minus some absoluteness on the try-redemption-first one, are how I think <i>all</i> paladins should be required to act. Subdividing it this way indicates these codes are specific to the alignments.</p>
<p>So it's fine for a CG champion to lie and take advantage of others? They don't need to show compassion for others?</p>
<p>It's fine for a NG champion to engage in slavery and tyranny?</p>
<p>It's fine for a paladin to coerce people to act in particular ways even if they're doing no harm? Or mete out undeserved punishment?</p>
<p>Even some of the less cut-and-dry cases, for instance if an authority figure hasn't made any laws that violate other tenets of the paladin code, I see absolutely no reason a CG champion <i>shouldn't</i> be encouraged to respect them in the absence of any reason not to. Fighting the power just 'cause it's there even if there's no substantial gain from disrupting people's lives is CN imo, not CG. </p>
<p>I really, really don't want true paladins reduced to "you don't have to be compassionate and can go beat up gays, those rules are for NG and CG!"</p>
<p>Potential fix: Use all tenets for all Good alignments. Have variation in the code of conduct be in the form of how the tenets are prioritized.</p>
<p>The last point is this: the abilities themselves. I don't like the idea of locking redemption-related abilities to NG-only. Okay, maybe Paizo wants LG paladins of LG-adjacent deities to no longer be a thing, so I'll leave out paladins of Sarenrae and similar, but that doesn't change that redemption-focused LG paladins have been supported, allowed, and encouraged up until now. The Redeemer archetype doesn't change alignment. Iomedae and a few other LG deities have the Redemption domain. Erastil would probably be more in favor of trying to bring a misguided local teenager back into the fold than meting out justice, if maybe not in favor of showing the same mercy to outsiders. But now LG paladins don't, and quite possibly will never, have access to abilities enabling that.</p>
<p>Potential fix: I like the idea of alignment variants getting different abilities, but I don't think LG should be relegated to "I guess they get the killy stuff". This will probably be amended by more options, and Retributive Strike being changed to something that doesn't only work if you let your allies be meatshields. Because "come on, come on, cut that guy down so I have a chance to retaliate" is <i>not</i> my LG.</p>
<p>(EDIT: Ooooops, I meant to put this in the classes subforum, I guess I had the wrong tab up. Sorry!)</p>Alright. Not that there's any shortage of ranting about paladins, but here's my additional two cents for the wishing fountain...
First of all, to get this straight, I'm not really opposed to non-LG paladin variants or equivalents. In fact, I like the idea, as long as they are handled with respect for the role of the "traditional" paladin. What I see as conditions of this are as follows:
- Existing paladin concepts are not invalidated or degraded.
- LG paladins are still the norm and default,...Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-12-01T20:24:52ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Hear our Plea(s)Kaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42dat&page=3?Hear-our-Plea#1102019-03-10T20:24:26Z2018-11-21T03:27:30Z<p>Two most important things to me:</p>
<p>Make half-orcs and half-elves real races and not a feat tax with what will probably be permanently fewer choices than other races, most acutely for the first quarter of level progression.</p>
<p>Keep LG paladins with a focus on redemption as a valid and sensible option. My 1e LG paladin of Iomedae would hands-down want the "make people rethink their actions" options rather than "need to let my buddy draw attacks before I can do anything". As is, if options stay locked to simplistic alignment interpretations, then YES, the variant paladins ARE taking something away from traditional paladins.</p>Two most important things to me:
Make half-orcs and half-elves real races and not a feat tax with what will probably be permanently fewer choices than other races, most acutely for the first quarter of level progression.
Keep LG paladins with a focus on redemption as a valid and sensible option. My 1e LG paladin of Iomedae would hands-down want the "make people rethink their actions" options rather than "need to let my buddy draw attacks before I can do anything". As is, if options stay...Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-11-21T03:27:30ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Paizo Blog: Ongoing ChangesKaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sg8b&page=2?Ongoing-Changes#722018-09-07T04:14:34Z2018-09-05T02:00:18Z<p>The amount of keywords tends to be confusing to me, not simplifying. Looking up keywords accounted for three quarters of my character design time in part 1. They haven't been very intuitive to find in the rulebook, either.</p>
<p>So... I like the original spell statblocks and the one fewer keyword better, but maybe if you could use the extra space to make room for some really awesome things, idk.</p>The amount of keywords tends to be confusing to me, not simplifying. Looking up keywords accounted for three quarters of my character design time in part 1. They haven't been very intuitive to find in the rulebook, either.
So... I like the original spell statblocks and the one fewer keyword better, but maybe if you could use the extra space to make room for some really awesome things, idk.Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-09-05T02:00:18ZRe: Forums: Classes: Paladin's Warded TouchKaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9q5?Paladins-Warded-Touch#52018-08-08T13:39:34Z2018-08-02T23:55:42Z<p>I read through the rulebook twice, had it pointed out that the definition of the gameplay meaning of "manipulate" was in the appendix, and that still didn't make it clear the idea was or might be to avoid AoOs.</p>
<p>First real hiccup with character creation, but that was a doozy of one.</p>
<p>[Edit: turned down the GRAAAAAAWR because trying to figure it out was frustrating, but I don't want to be a grump at all the cool people here]</p>I read through the rulebook twice, had it pointed out that the definition of the gameplay meaning of "manipulate" was in the appendix, and that still didn't make it clear the idea was or might be to avoid AoOs.
First real hiccup with character creation, but that was a doozy of one.
[Edit: turned down the GRAAAAAAWR because trying to figure it out was frustrating, but I don't want to be a grump at all the cool people here]Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-08-02T23:55:42ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Paizo Blog: Common GroundKaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lkxw&page=5?Common-Ground#2042018-07-16T06:38:08Z2018-07-13T23:48:39Z<p>I like this system a lot. It should cut down on some of the absurdity of players combining tons of options that make no sense, and also amend some of the confusion when a splatbook implies but doesn't require that a spell or a feat or whatever is limited to such-and-such group, or how to have something in the game intended for use by an enemy group and not PCs without restrictions that look scummy OOC.</p>I like this system a lot. It should cut down on some of the absurdity of players combining tons of options that make no sense, and also amend some of the confusion when a splatbook implies but doesn't require that a spell or a feat or whatever is limited to such-and-such group, or how to have something in the game intended for use by an enemy group and not PCs without restrictions that look scummy OOC.Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-07-13T23:48:39ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: Ask *James Jacobs* ALL your Questions Here!Kaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=1446?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Questions-Here#722592018-06-29T05:06:59Z2018-06-29T05:06:17Z<p>Why does Norgorber have the Daemon subdomain? (or daemons as servitors, for that matter.) I'd gotten the impression he didn't have all that much in common with them besides alignment.</p>Why does Norgorber have the Daemon subdomain? (or daemons as servitors, for that matter.) I'd gotten the impression he didn't have all that much in common with them besides alignment.Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-06-29T05:06:17ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: Ask *James Jacobs* ALL your Questions Here!Kaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=1443?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Questions-Here#721072018-06-06T01:54:00Z2018-06-06T01:53:30Z<p>Do you have any advice on making adjustments to adventures while minimizing risk of continuity conflict/needing to adjust future published adventures more significantly?</p>Do you have any advice on making adjustments to adventures while minimizing risk of continuity conflict/needing to adjust future published adventures more significantly?Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-06-06T01:53:30ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: Ask *James Jacobs* ALL your Questions Here!Kaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=1440?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Questions-Here#719842018-05-17T06:49:24Z2018-05-17T06:48:48Z<p>Just curious about your take on this, the group already decided on a ruling for the game it's relevant to, and I'm plenty happy with it.</p>
<p>Elixir of Sex Shift. "The elixir has no effect on characters who are pregnant or are of races with no sexual differentiation." Is this the case for changelings?</p>Just curious about your take on this, the group already decided on a ruling for the game it's relevant to, and I'm plenty happy with it.
Elixir of Sex Shift. "The elixir has no effect on characters who are pregnant or are of races with no sexual differentiation." Is this the case for changelings?Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-05-17T06:48:48ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Distant RealmsKaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/products/btpya1b8/discuss&page=3?Pathfinder-Campaign-Setting-Distant-Realms#1122018-05-16T12:05:18Z2018-05-16T02:03:46Z<p>Wonder if Basrakal is where Tabris has been hanging out...</p>Wonder if Basrakal is where Tabris has been hanging out...Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-05-16T02:03:46ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Paizo Blog: Paladin Class PreviewKaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lkrq?Paladin-Class-Preview#312018-05-07T22:19:21Z2018-05-07T21:24:46Z<p>YES! Allowing poison is a reasonable adjustment, love the clarifications (thank you for further confirming that yes, torture is evil...), happy about the tease of maybe alignment variations with significant gameplay differences but that won't change the paladin's identity as primarily LG.</p>
<p>Mechanics-wise I think a lot of this sounds cool but I do hope it doesn't remove too much versatility, I like playing tanky paladins but I like having the option for more offensive builds too.</p>YES! Allowing poison is a reasonable adjustment, love the clarifications (thank you for further confirming that yes, torture is evil...), happy about the tease of maybe alignment variations with significant gameplay differences but that won't change the paladin's identity as primarily LG.
Mechanics-wise I think a lot of this sounds cool but I do hope it doesn't remove too much versatility, I like playing tanky paladins but I like having the option for more offensive builds too.Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-05-07T21:24:46ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Anathema and falling...Kaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v3sn?Anathema-and-falling#392018-04-30T04:03:26Z2018-04-30T04:03:26Z<p>I admittedly don't really see the cases in which the suggested system would be an improvement as likely to be very common.</p>
<p>Reducing arguments? Anyone who saw the complaints about cleric spells per day in the blog discussion, are you seriously hoping people will argue that much less over "just losing a few spell points/whatever"?</p>
<p>Preventing unreasonable/differently opinionated GMs from wrecking your character? No, a GM who doesn't like clerics/paladins/divine casters/you, or how you're playing such a character, will still ruin your ability to do so successfully... it'll be a little more gradual, but it also could just mean smaller things they can feel justified in penalizing you for, I expect. I guess it's extra warning time to get your PC's affairs in order and find a new table?</p>
<p>Helping with games with reasonable GMs you can see eye to eye with? It might add some more room for mechanical competence for players who want to fall for narrative purposes, or something, but generally seems unnecessary.</p>I admittedly don't really see the cases in which the suggested system would be an improvement as likely to be very common.
Reducing arguments? Anyone who saw the complaints about cleric spells per day in the blog discussion, are you seriously hoping people will argue that much less over "just losing a few spell points/whatever"?
Preventing unreasonable/differently opinionated GMs from wrecking your character? No, a GM who doesn't like clerics/paladins/divine casters/you, or how you're...Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-04-30T04:03:26ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Another Paladin SuggestionKaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v3p7&page=2?Another-Paladin-Suggestion#892018-04-29T06:07:10Z2018-04-29T06:07:10Z<p>I'm fine with similar classes for other alignments. I'm also of the opinion that the less they resemble knockoff paladins while filling the role of a religion-affiliated full BAB martial, the better for both game design and lore.</p>
<p>EDIT: Also, maybe this is just me, but I don't think the majority of the paladin-traditionalists are arguing that in terms of design, paladins need to be better mechanically to balance out the difficulty of playing an LG character. But that in terms of lore, the concept revolves around the character gaining strength from sacrificing personal freedom to follow a strict code. IC flavor, not OOC balance, guys.</p>I'm fine with similar classes for other alignments. I'm also of the opinion that the less they resemble knockoff paladins while filling the role of a religion-affiliated full BAB martial, the better for both game design and lore.
EDIT: Also, maybe this is just me, but I don't think the majority of the paladin-traditionalists are arguing that in terms of design, paladins need to be better mechanically to balance out the difficulty of playing an LG character. But that in terms of lore, the...Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-04-29T06:07:10ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Anathema and falling...Kaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v3sn?Anathema-and-falling#142018-04-30T15:44:11Z2018-04-29T06:00:32Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Voss wrote:</div><blockquote><p>The problem is the gameworld effects. It's pretty clear that every two-bit criminal, spy or overall treacherous blaggard should use the temple of Shelyn as a revolving door of safety. A place to go where they have to take you- they must respond to attempts to negotiate without violence and are required to accept surrender. Without regard of whether or not you've taken advantage of them or outright betrayed them previously... or if you've done absurdly monstrous things previously- the combination creates a perfect scenario where a pickpocket or someone carrying a child's severed head has to be at least temporarily accommodated as long as they say 'I give up'.</p>
<p>So, yeah, it's more clear, but it's also more absurd. Human nature being what it is, and Evil being what it is in Golarion, the idea that this wouldn't be exploited regularly is rather silly. Agents of the Whispering Tyrant should be creating tension between the temples of Shelyn and Iomedea just by surrendering to the Shelynites
<br />
whenever they get noticed.</p>
<p>As a bonus, it's a wacky 'But Thou Must' hammer to apply to player agency, with threats of unspecified consequences if the PLAYER (not the character) doesn't do as the writers/GM wish. </p>
<p>Gods forbid you run into divine characters with opposing anathema. 'Kill all [undead, demons, etc]' plows hard into always 'accept surrender and don't strike first.' </blockquote><p>I don't think so, personally... but okay, I'll assume sincerity and conclude that my "nobody could misinterpret this accidentally" has been disproven.
<p>I don't think doing that would be so effective a tactic, really... guy surrenders, gets turned over to the city guard or whatever, ???, profit? I'm a bit skeptical. Also I don't see how it's about what the player does rather than what the character does.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Wei Ji the Learner wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
Or alternatively, add wording like Force Users get in Star Wars games that basically allows a GM to warn folks before putting any sort of penalties into place.</p>
<p>No Phylactery, though. </blockquote><p>Isn't the GM already allowed to do this?Voss wrote:The problem is the gameworld effects. It's pretty clear that every two-bit criminal, spy or overall treacherous blaggard should use the temple of Shelyn as a revolving door of safety. A place to go where they have to take you- they must respond to attempts to negotiate without violence and are required to accept surrender. Without regard of whether or not you've taken advantage of them or outright betrayed them previously... or if you've done absurdly monstrous things previously-...Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-04-29T06:00:32ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Anathema and falling...Kaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v3sn?Anathema-and-falling#42018-04-29T01:32:09Z2018-04-29T01:32:09Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Wheldrake wrote:</div><blockquote>Now, clerics have this new feature called "anathema", things that are abhorrent to a given deity. And naysayers are already claiming that there will be horrible conflicts over what causes a cleric to "fall" or not.</blockquote><p>I thought the naysayers had just last alignment thread been asking for clearer definitions of what was fallworthy. Isn't that literally what this is? Much more specific actions being called out? I really don't see a ton of likelihood for disagreeing that much on how to interpret them unless someone is being willfully stubborn about it...Wheldrake wrote:Now, clerics have this new feature called "anathema", things that are abhorrent to a given deity. And naysayers are already claiming that there will be horrible conflicts over what causes a cleric to "fall" or not.
I thought the naysayers had just last alignment thread been asking for clearer definitions of what was fallworthy. Isn't that literally what this is? Much more specific actions being called out? I really don't see a ton of likelihood for disagreeing that much on...Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-04-29T01:32:09ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: No more half way measures, go full Orc please! (TW: Rape, Sexual Assault)Kaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v1o3&page=5?No-more-half-way-measures-go-full-Orc-please#2382018-04-25T19:40:17Z2018-04-24T20:42:28Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">J-Bone wrote:</div><blockquote> Why would anyone want to play a Half-Orc if the Orc Orc was on offer? I don't understand why this is such a big issue. It wouldn't even be a big shock to the Golarion lore as we have a big ass place called Belkzen that has been developed fairly well with a campaign book and an AP. If the Half-Orc comes off as rapey, which the core material implies, get rid of it. If you still want your semi-monstrous PC,just go with Orc as the OP suggests. </blockquote><p>I don't know about you or anyone else, but I don't play half-orcs to play orc lite. For characters like Oloch or Thog, that could maybe work. For Therkla or Imrijka, not as much.
<p>Unless the Golarion canon of orcs is drastically changed to make them a race of misunderstood Drizzt wannabes, which I very much hope isn't done to orcs as well as goblins, a heroic orc PC should be an extreme outlier. That's not the kind of thing I want to play all the time. A character who's close enough to human but isn't treated as such makes for a more interesting and less contrived story, to me.</p>J-Bone wrote:Why would anyone want to play a Half-Orc if the Orc Orc was on offer? I don't understand why this is such a big issue. It wouldn't even be a big shock to the Golarion lore as we have a big ass place called Belkzen that has been developed fairly well with a campaign book and an AP. If the Half-Orc comes off as rapey, which the core material implies, get rid of it. If you still want your semi-monstrous PC,just go with Orc as the OP suggests.
I don't know about you or anyone else,...Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-04-24T20:42:28ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: No more half way measures, go full Orc please! (TW: Rape, Sexual Assault)Kaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v1o3&page=5?No-more-half-way-measures-go-full-Orc-please#2202018-05-06T06:03:46Z2018-04-23T19:09:55Z<p>Personally one of the things I like about RPGs is for the same kinds of problems to exist, but in a medium where I feel more able to do something about them. In real life, if someone tells me "hey, ew, you're [sexuality/race/religion/etc] I don't like!" I don't have a whole lot of options, besides maybe swaying onlookers with a witty comeback. If that comes up in Pathfinder then the witty comeback can be "Yeah, I am. I'm also a level 14 wizard, and you're now a mouse."</p>
<p>The existence of rapists bothers me a lot less when I get to kill them with swords.</p>Personally one of the things I like about RPGs is for the same kinds of problems to exist, but in a medium where I feel more able to do something about them. In real life, if someone tells me "hey, ew, you're [sexuality/race/religion/etc] I don't like!" I don't have a whole lot of options, besides maybe swaying onlookers with a witty comeback. If that comes up in Pathfinder then the witty comeback can be "Yeah, I am. I'm also a level 14 wizard, and you're now a mouse."
The existence of...Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-04-23T19:09:55ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: Ask *James Jacobs* ALL your Questions Here!Kaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=1435?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Questions-Here#717332018-04-19T05:15:27Z2018-04-19T05:13:07Z<p>Cool. And should dhampirs have identical aging to humans, instead of the weird 20+4/6/10d6? Because I'm guessing the possibility of them dying of old age during sufficiently randomized character creation is a sign something got lost in translation somewhere.</p>
<p>Character ages came up during a game, sorry for the weird questions about it!</p>Cool. And should dhampirs have identical aging to humans, instead of the weird 20+4/6/10d6? Because I'm guessing the possibility of them dying of old age during sufficiently randomized character creation is a sign something got lost in translation somewhere.
Character ages came up during a game, sorry for the weird questions about it!Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-04-19T05:13:07ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: Ask *James Jacobs* ALL your Questions Here!Kaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=1435?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Questions-Here#717282018-04-19T03:22:23Z2018-04-19T03:22:23Z<p>Why do tieflings/aasimars reach adulthood more slowly than humans if the rest of their aging benchmarks are identical? It seems odd for something descended from an immortal creature to spend less time at the prime of their life.</p>Why do tieflings/aasimars reach adulthood more slowly than humans if the rest of their aging benchmarks are identical? It seems odd for something descended from an immortal creature to spend less time at the prime of their life.Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-04-19T03:22:23ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: why alignment (for characters) needs to goKaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uysk&page=13?why-alignment-needs-to-go#6222018-04-19T10:58:10Z2018-04-19T02:53:50Z<p>I'd be fine with alignment restrictions on shifter/monk/barbarian/non-divine casters in general being removed... wouldn't particularly be inclined to do it myself, but if it happens in 2e I'll play along without complaint.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Ckorik wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">cfalcon wrote:</div><blockquote></p>
<p>Now picture a game without the alignment baseline.</p>
<p></blockquote>This isn't being discussed in this thread - so no I won't picture the game like this. </blockquote><p>Yes, actually, it is. Just because it's not what you had in mind when you started the thread doesn't mean it's not a concept people in this thread are advocating for.
<p>There is you, who started this thread but do not own it, arguing for alignment to be in the game but not applied to people/PCs/etc. And several people agreeing with this.</p>
<p>There are <i>also</i> people in this thread arguing for removing/diminishing alignment across the board entirely, unless I'm seriously misunderstanding.</p>
<p>That post of mine was directed toward the latter group. It's quite possible cfalcon's also was. "That's not what I'm talking about and not what I want" would be valid. Saying it's not being discussed in the thread is just flat out incorrect. </p>
<p>Also, it seems very likely to me that if alignment was removed for PCs and the majority of NPCs, that rules options using alignment would be decreased, so the point stands. It would still be harder to houserule in than to houserule out.</p>I'd be fine with alignment restrictions on shifter/monk/barbarian/non-divine casters in general being removed... wouldn't particularly be inclined to do it myself, but if it happens in 2e I'll play along without complaint.
Ckorik wrote:cfalcon wrote:Now picture a game without the alignment baseline.
This isn't being discussed in this thread - so no I won't picture the game like this. Yes, actually, it is. Just because it's not what you had in mind when you started the thread doesn't mean...Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-04-19T02:53:50ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: why alignment (for characters) needs to goKaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uysk&page=11?why-alignment-needs-to-go#5242018-04-17T13:21:09Z2018-04-17T09:29:51Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Wei Ji the Learner wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
What is truly odd is that Alignment in Starfinder was dialed back a fair deal... and it really hasn't impacted play all that much from what I've been able to see.</p>
<p>The Infamy metric added by PFS seems to handle any excesses beyond the 'dialed back' alignment.</p>
<p>I also haven't heard any arguments or discussions coming up from Starfinder about 'Well, since my GM made my class code conflict with the alignment morality trap he built, I lost it all' or 'The players in my campaign are abusing alignment'.</p>
<p>...which are things which can and have happened in PF1 with a restrictive and focused alignment system. We have •MANY• threads on these forums (and elsewhere) detailing these sorts of things.</p>
<p>I know which I'd rather deal with at the end of the day when I'm running a table. </blockquote><p>I really don't see Starfinder as compatible on this. It's a genre thing. Forces of cosmic morality, honor or hatred made manifest and granting magical protection or strength, noble and heroic knights fighting ultimate evils, that's high fantasy stuff - aka reasonable for people to expect to be enabled by the Pathfinder system. Alignment is relevant.
<p>Lovable rogues who everyone understands to be reliable if sometimes reluctant or misrepresented allies, upstanding and respected commanders and politicians, feared bounty hunters, and intimidating aliens of superhuman martial prowess are more the norm for space opera. Hence, infamy is more relevant, so that's the more used system for Starfinder. Alignment generally would not be seen as relevant as much anyway, I would suspect.</p>Wei Ji the Learner wrote:What is truly odd is that Alignment in Starfinder was dialed back a fair deal... and it really hasn't impacted play all that much from what I've been able to see.The Infamy metric added by PFS seems to handle any excesses beyond the 'dialed back' alignment.
I also haven't heard any arguments or discussions coming up from Starfinder about 'Well, since my GM made my class code conflict with the alignment morality trap he built, I lost it all' or 'The players in my...Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-04-17T09:29:51ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: why alignment (for characters) needs to goKaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uysk&page=11?why-alignment-needs-to-go#5062018-05-08T18:24:37Z2018-04-16T23:43:30Z<p>Removing (mechanically relevant or otherwise) alignment is easier than adding mechanically relevant alignment. </p>
<p>The "keep alignment" argument is just that - leave alignment-based gameplay in place, present removing it as an option for people who want that, don't have PFS mandate no alignments or adventure paths expect it. For most games, it is then a choice of "keep alignment, keep alignment but remove alignment mechanics, remove alignment" with no substantial redesigning or customization. Just that one decision that's simple enough for a vote or something.</p>
<p>The "remove alignment" argument, as many people are presenting it, requires taking away the framework for that system. Not just listing one before the other in the CRB, but making it so people who want alignment mechanics will have to homebrew all the spells, archetypes, rituals, monster abilities, etc that they think should use it, AS WELL AS finding a group of players who are on board with that AND agree on the precise implementations. To save the anti-alignment crowd the trouble of "hey guys can we try a game without alignments".</p>
<p>This is the essence of the compromise problem. It's the difference between "there's a red house on this sign, but you can paint your house red or blue" and "you can paint your house red or blue, but red paint is now illegal, so you'd have to find a black-market paint salesman or make your own paint, because we like blue better."</p>Removing (mechanically relevant or otherwise) alignment is easier than adding mechanically relevant alignment.
The "keep alignment" argument is just that - leave alignment-based gameplay in place, present removing it as an option for people who want that, don't have PFS mandate no alignments or adventure paths expect it. For most games, it is then a choice of "keep alignment, keep alignment but remove alignment mechanics, remove alignment" with no substantial redesigning or customization....Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-04-16T23:43:30ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: GM Question: Save or Suck spells/effects against PCsKaladin_Stormblessedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v23e?GM-Question-Save-or-Suck-spells-effects#212018-04-15T13:42:10Z2018-04-15T07:02:39Z<p>I think they're fine to include at least sometimes. Otherwise you render any precautions players take against them meaningless, and/or nerf-by-extension things that are balanced around having some of those protections innately. Possibly without players having been made aware so they can account for it. I'd be peeved if I spent resources, say, shoring up my Will saves, or casting Protection from Evil a lot, and then the worst threats they would be preventing weren't really in the game my GM was running.</p>
<p>And as long as it's not constant, it's scarcely a game-ruiner.</p>I think they're fine to include at least sometimes. Otherwise you render any precautions players take against them meaningless, and/or nerf-by-extension things that are balanced around having some of those protections innately. Possibly without players having been made aware so they can account for it. I'd be peeved if I spent resources, say, shoring up my Will saves, or casting Protection from Evil a lot, and then the worst threats they would be preventing weren't really in the game my GM...Kaladin_Stormblessed2018-04-15T07:02:39Z