paizo.com Favorited Posts by JAMRenaissancepaizo.com Favorited Posts by JAMRenaissance2024-03-19T15:57:19Z2024-03-19T15:57:19ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder Second Edition: General Discussion: "Barbarians Are Already Bloodragers" - Making a "Bloodrager" within the existing rulesJAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43tk2?Barbarians-Are-Already-Bloodragers-Making-a#62023-05-18T03:52:00Z2023-05-17T20:28:36Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">breithauptclan wrote:</div><blockquote> And have you tried actually playing one of these builds in a Moderate or Severe threat encounter? </blockquote><p>Not enough to feel comfortable discussing efficacy, hence my statements about optimization. I've run through some personal test battles, but that isn't the same as running through a chapter of an Adventure Path, as an example. I'll need to wait until I join another campaign (and make myself not play a Monk) to give a realistic field test.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">pixierose wrote:</div><blockquote> While this is doable, I think it fails to do what I like most about the Bloodrager. A bloodrager imo should be able to have their rage or rage analogue work with the spell-casting. Moment of clarity kind of goes against that vibe, you are pausing the rage to do the magic stuff. </blockquote><p>So take stuff that doesn't require Moment of Clarity. That's half of what took up time to write the guide - finding all of the stuff that could be cast on its own. Heal, Harm, Elemental Toss and Shadow Projectile are all great examples of spells that can be cast without Moment of Clarity.
<p>To rephrase, Rage /DOES/ work with spellcasting. It doesn't work as well with /ALL/ spellcasting... and it shouldn't given balance issues.</p>breithauptclan wrote:And have you tried actually playing one of these builds in a Moderate or Severe threat encounter?
Not enough to feel comfortable discussing efficacy, hence my statements about optimization. I've run through some personal test battles, but that isn't the same as running through a chapter of an Adventure Path, as an example. I'll need to wait until I join another campaign (and make myself not play a Monk) to give a realistic field test. pixierose wrote:While this is...JAMRenaissance2023-05-17T20:28:36ZRe: Forums: Advice: 2nd Edition Guide to the Guides!JAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42rkx&page=6?2nd-Edition-Guide-to-the-Guides#2572023-05-18T01:57:33Z2023-05-17T19:50:37Z<p>I added a guide: <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wY7Tnp0jUxbLqfQaIsb_BvQ9SfZKceaBH7pOkqmb9Uo/edit?usp=sharing" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">"Barbarians Are Already Bloodragers!" aka "The Bloodrager 2E Spell List"</a></p>
<p><a href="https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43tk2?Barbarians-Are-Already-Bloodragers-Making-a" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Discussion Thread</a></p>I added a guide: "Barbarians Are Already Bloodragers!" aka "The Bloodrager 2E Spell List"
Discussion ThreadJAMRenaissance2023-05-17T19:50:37ZForums/Pathfinder Second Edition: General Discussion: "Barbarians Are Already Bloodragers" - Making a "Bloodrager" within the existing rulesJAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43tk2?Barbarians-Are-Already-Bloodragers-Making-a#12023-05-21T11:38:32Z2023-05-17T19:46:40Z<p>Someone on A Pathfinder 2nd Edition FB group I frequent mentioned a while back the idea of converting the Bloodrager class to Pathfinder 2nd, and I went "I think it already exists. It's just Barbarian w/ Moment of Clarity and a Spellcasting Dedication" </p>
<p>Yeah... that opened a rabbit hole for me. </p>
<p>So, here's the first version of what became a guide to trying to make a Bloodrager. The biggest thing is figuring out which spells you can and can't cast based on being in a Rage and how many hands you have free. </p>
<p>I also wrote some sample builds, but, in full disclosure, I don't see myself as much of an optimizer, and I'm specifically much better at modeling an idea. I literally went "This would be cool!", and began doing research. If there are points of optimization I can include, feel free to let me know. They are also linked inside of the guide. </p>
<p><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wY7Tnp0jUxbLqfQaIsb_BvQ9SfZKceaBH7pOkqmb9Uo/edit?usp=sharing" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">"Barbarians Are Already Bloodragers!" aka "The Bloodrager 2E Spell List"</a></p>
<p>Samples I created. I tried to vary the Instincts, the spellcasting traditions, and how many spells are focus spells vs spell slot spells.</p>
<p><a href="https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=422034" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Goblin Dragon Instinct Flames Oracle</a></p>
<p><a href="https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=422112" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Goblin Dragon Instinct Flames Oracle (Free Archetype)</a></p>
<p><a href="https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=422064" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Human Animal Instinct Aberrant Sorcerer Monk</a></p>
<p><a href="https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=422094" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Human Animal Instinct Aberrant Sorcerer Monk (Free Archetype)</a></p>
<p><a href="https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=422122" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Dwarf Giant Instinct Magus Psychic</a></p>
<p><a href="https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=422130" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Dwarf Giant Instinct Magus Psychic (Free Archetype)</a></p>Someone on A Pathfinder 2nd Edition FB group I frequent mentioned a while back the idea of converting the Bloodrager class to Pathfinder 2nd, and I went "I think it already exists. It's just Barbarian w/ Moment of Clarity and a Spellcasting Dedication"
Yeah... that opened a rabbit hole for me.
So, here's the first version of what became a guide to trying to make a Bloodrager. The biggest thing is figuring out which spells you can and can't cast based on being in a Rage and how many hands...JAMRenaissance2023-05-17T19:46:40ZForums/Pathfinder Second Edition: General Discussion: Optimization and Tactics are Substitutes For Each Other In Pathfinder 2EJAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43opu?Optimization-and-Tactics-are-Substitutes-For#12022-09-23T08:23:12Z2022-09-22T17:57:43Z<p>"Hot Take": Optimization and Tactics are substitutes for each other in Pathfinder 2nd Edition.</p>
<p>That is a shift from Pathfinder 1st Edition. P1E had more "trap" options while also sporting more "best in class" feats and a multiclass system very conducive to maximizing pure power levels. On the other side, the fluidity of movement as well as the streamlined set of bonuses and penalties make tactical combat a considerably stronger option in Pathfinder 2nd than in Pathfinder 1st; simply put, it is easy for any character to assist an ally in attacks, heal an ally, debuff an enemy for an ally, etc., depending on what you do. Optimization was easy in Pathfinder 1st, while using tactics was hard.</p>
<p>The Adventure Paths appear designed to assume a certain level of tactics. It can be expected that a monster will have "bigger numbers" than a PC; tactics drag these "bigger numbers" down to a manageable size. Optimization, on the other hand, reduce this discrepancy by making the PC numbers bigger rather than making the monster numbers smaller. This leads to the "substitution" theory; both are means to get to the same point.</p>
<p>Some often deride optimization; I'm "old school" enough to think of "characters" and not "builds", as an example. Moreover, the design of Pathfinder 2nd makes attempts at optimization rather obvious; you know it when you see the flick mace, shadow signet or any other item in which you can tell someone dug through the crates to find the things that gives the biggest numbers. It is easier to see this as the latest iteration of "ROLEplaying vs ROLLplaying".</p>
<p>With that said, I am personally grappling with whether or not this is a genuinely fair comparison. While I feel a sense of loving nostalgia at the idea of "Stranger Things", TTRPGs have been around for a minute now, and the audience for the games has thankfully changed. If I were still the target audience, as a nearly 50 year old man, this hobby that I love would have long ago gone out of business. We have new people in the hobby, many of whom came from playing video games. If I'm playing a video game, I'm making a character designed to beat the game. To rephrase, the second a controller enters your hand, you stop creating a "character" and start creating a "build". Is it really that unfair to be surprised people come up with "builds" rather than "characters"? Don't get me wrong... I will continue to clown any graduate of Jeziver's School For Gifted Humans, that incredible gnome orphanage that finds parentless humans and trains them to be Fighters with a free archetype of Champion... some level of grace could stand to be given in anything less obvious than that, no?</p>
<p>Moreover, and these are the quiet parts we don't want to admit... tactics involve working with OTHER PEOPLE. Some gamers don't really want to do that, and many gamers don't know HOW to. Interpersonal dynamics can be hard, particularly given the frequency with which we may find ourselves gaming with someone who is not a "friend" per se. Moreover, you have to know HOW to use tactics. As I mentioned above, traditionally tactics aren't a big thing; you ran up to the other team and start swinging. It's hard to admit that you don't know how to "play the game well", but until you learn the nuances of Recalling Knowledge, Athletics, Aid, Flanking, Concealment, Intimidation, etc.. you actually /DON'T/ know how to play well. For many of us, we can learn to ask our fellow players to flank for us or to withdraw from combat if they are getting surrounded... or we can get a weapon with the Fatal trait and try to deal with our problems ourselves. I know I have to be careful to not deride those that chose the latter option, because , even if it is not one I would espouse, it is a very understandable one.</p>
<p>On the other side, it should not be surprising to someone that is focused on a "build" that their cries of "OMG! The game is a MEET GRINDR!!!" may get a response of "Well, how are you playing it?" The game, in my opinion, is really NOT designed to focus on optimization; it's designed for you to work together. You can focus on creating a "character", because, unlike Pathfinder 1st Edition, it is a LOT easier to create something that fits your vision that Doesn't Suck, because the number of trap options are less. The /MINIMUM/ optimization needed in Pathfinder 2e is basically "put the most resources into the thing you do the most"; you should typically be good from there. As such, it is VERY reasonable, when one complains about the difficulty of the game, to not have a conversation about the character creation choices made and to instead have a conversation about the actions used at a given time. Yes, this is a more complicated and difficult conversation, but it is a part of learning how to play the game /WELL/. Before declaring the game bad/wrong/overpowered, we've got to be able to ask about the decisions that led one down that path. You may actually NOT know how to play the game well yet.</p>
<p>Most fights in Pathfinder 1E/5e/3.5 are won during character creation. Fights in Pathfinder 2nd Edition are won during gameplay. However, you can still win a lot during character creation in 2E, and we end up with a constant push and pull to balance these things.</p>"Hot Take": Optimization and Tactics are substitutes for each other in Pathfinder 2nd Edition.
That is a shift from Pathfinder 1st Edition. P1E had more "trap" options while also sporting more "best in class" feats and a multiclass system very conducive to maximizing pure power levels. On the other side, the fluidity of movement as well as the streamlined set of bonuses and penalties make tactical combat a considerably stronger option in Pathfinder 2nd than in Pathfinder 1st; simply put, it...JAMRenaissance2022-09-22T17:57:43ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder Second Edition: General Discussion: I Love 2e, but I am starting to notice a problem. . .JAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nqa#422022-08-07T13:50:12Z2022-08-07T13:20:36Z<p>I believe they have simply moved the design of the classes/ancestries away from "Here's our initial presentation to be expanded later" to "This is the class/ancestry as-is and in complete form, and unless there is some specific reason germane to a later idea it will not be expanded". </p>
<p>I prefer it this way thus far.</p>I believe they have simply moved the design of the classes/ancestries away from "Here's our initial presentation to be expanded later" to "This is the class/ancestry as-is and in complete form, and unless there is some specific reason germane to a later idea it will not be expanded".
I prefer it this way thus far.JAMRenaissance2022-08-07T13:20:36ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder Second Edition: General Discussion: What are your thoughts at this point on 2e monks?JAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nnj?What-are-your-thoughts-at-this-point-on-2e-monks#482022-08-04T10:39:25Z2022-08-04T06:40:30Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Milo v3 wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
<p>Doing 1 or 2 supernatural things per encounter is not my idea of a supernatural character.
<br />
</blockquote><p>You could take Clinging Shadows Initiate, Wild Winds Initiate, Wind Jump, Meditative Focus, or Sense Ki to up that number...Milo v3 wrote:Doing 1 or 2 supernatural things per encounter is not my idea of a supernatural character.
You could take Clinging Shadows Initiate, Wild Winds Initiate, Wind Jump, Meditative Focus, or Sense Ki to up that number...JAMRenaissance2022-08-04T06:40:30ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder Second Edition: General Discussion: What are your thoughts at this point on 2e monks?JAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nnj?What-are-your-thoughts-at-this-point-on-2e-monks#82022-08-03T17:01:38Z2022-08-03T16:28:22Z<p>So I just wrote a <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1q8RFyMfTfmkvJkKLZ8aCuNxfKNWlML4_FHf2aUf_Xe4/edit?usp=sharing" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Breakdown of the Monk arguing it actually /DOES/ have three subclasses and that action economy is the actual strength of the Monk in a way far beyond Flurry of Blows</a> so... yeah. That's my argument. :D</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Martialmasters wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
This is a fair point and I think the disconnect on this front for some players is two factors</p>
<p>1- you have to build for the support options, it's not like a champion in that regard.</p>
<p>2-the support often isn't reactive or in the forms it buffs. You are not providing group save bonuses or a reaction to protect someone. </blockquote><p>Would you say that, while the Monk doesn't have specific group support options, it has great ways to use standard options, like flanking due to Incredible Movement, Intimidation via Gorilla or Dragon Stance, Maneuver feats, etc..?So I just wrote a Breakdown of the Monk arguing it actually /DOES/ have three subclasses and that action economy is the actual strength of the Monk in a way far beyond Flurry of Blows so... yeah. That's my argument. :D
Martialmasters wrote:This is a fair point and I think the disconnect on this front for some players is two factors1- you have to build for the support options, it's not like a champion in that regard.
2-the support often isn't reactive or in the forms it buffs. You are not...JAMRenaissance2022-08-03T16:28:22ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder Second Edition: General Discussion: Spell Attack RollsJAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nn4?Spell-Attack-Rolls#172022-08-03T15:13:56Z2022-08-03T10:36:20Z<p>The "... but True Strike" argument is the bottom line one that people want to ignore in order to get what they want, which is a system closer to Pathfinder 1E. Allow me to rephrase the request.</p>
<p>"Can we have Magic Attacks hit more without using Magic to hit more?"</p>
<p>The answer is and should be "No".</p>The "... but True Strike" argument is the bottom line one that people want to ignore in order to get what they want, which is a system closer to Pathfinder 1E. Allow me to rephrase the request.
"Can we have Magic Attacks hit more without using Magic to hit more?"
The answer is and should be "No".JAMRenaissance2022-08-03T10:36:20ZRe: Forums: Rules Discussion: Heaven's ThunderJAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43kgd?Heavens-Thunder#72022-03-13T17:09:09Z2022-03-04T10:05:46Z<p>As almost no one has an practical experience playing one, I'll give mine. I don't have set numbers, though now I'll follow more closely. </p>
<p>I'm playing a Monk using FA and ABP for Ruby Phoenix, with Jalmeri Heavenseeker and a couple of damage runes (Impactful and Frost).</p>
<p>The team has a Barbarian using Dragon Instinct, Rogue Dedication Sneak Attack, and Elven Curve Blade, and a couple of damage runes (Electricity and Sonic). </p>
<p>WITH Heaven's Thunder, the Monk damage has been roughly comparable to the Barbarian. </p>
<p>She is hitting MORE than the Barbarian, however. There is only a +1 difference to hit, but Flurry of Blows and Crane Flutter let her swing more often thus far. </p>
<p>Take that solely as a data point, and a non- specific one to boot, from a single session (we just turned level 12, which is when I picked it up). </p>
<p>Edit: Right after posting this someone hit me with a screen shot of a Discord chat where Mark Seifter offered a suggestion. I can't confirm the veracity. Thoughts? </p>
<p><a href="https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/640020629663252490/851859706615562240/unknown.png" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"> Screenshot Here </a></p>As almost no one has an practical experience playing one, I'll give mine. I don't have set numbers, though now I'll follow more closely.
I'm playing a Monk using FA and ABP for Ruby Phoenix, with Jalmeri Heavenseeker and a couple of damage runes (Impactful and Frost).
The team has a Barbarian using Dragon Instinct, Rogue Dedication Sneak Attack, and Elven Curve Blade, and a couple of damage runes (Electricity and Sonic).
WITH Heaven's Thunder, the Monk damage has been roughly comparable to...JAMRenaissance2022-03-04T10:05:46ZRe: Forums: Advice: Best buffer in the gameJAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uwei&page=2?Best-buffer-in-the-game#512018-02-25T22:41:46Z2018-02-25T00:50:16Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">VoodistMonk wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">derpdidruid wrote:</div><blockquote> Drunken master/sensei gets infinite party wide ki powers </blockquote>I really need to examine this further... </blockquote><p>The rules are... squishy... about how much a character can drink a day. There's a level of GM interpretation, but at minimum you know you can drink CON•2+1 drinks a day before negative repercussion. Add in Deep Drinker, and that's a LOT of ki in the harshest interpretation of how much you can have a day.
<p>In the most liberal interpretation... The game never gives a limit to how many drinks one can have in a day...</p>
<p>EDIT: Mass Drunken Step is also fun and high utility as well.</p>VoodistMonk wrote:derpdidruid wrote: Drunken master/sensei gets infinite party wide ki powers
I really need to examine this further... The rules are... squishy... about how much a character can drink a day. There's a level of GM interpretation, but at minimum you know you can drink CON*2+1 drinks a day before negative repercussion. Add in Deep Drinker, and that's a LOT of ki in the harshest interpretation of how much you can have a day. In the most liberal interpretation... The game never...JAMRenaissance2018-02-25T00:50:16ZRe: Forums: Advice: Best buffer in the gameJAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uwei?Best-buffer-in-the-game#452023-06-14T03:39:12Z2018-02-24T17:16:15Z<p>I don't know if I would say "best", but one of the more unique ones that I'm loving right now (as a monk guy) is a Sensei/Ki Mystic Monk. You get some really good Bardic Performances (Inspire Courage, Competence, and Greatness), and access to all of the feats and add-ons of having Bardic Performance as a result. The unique part is the ability to give people your ki-based powers while using your "performance". With Qiggong substitutions, this provides a lot of variety. The Sensei casts TrueStrike from a distance. Extra speed, gaseous form, dodge bonuses, barkskin, no-component restoration... anything you can do on yourself, you now do on others. Ki Mystic gets you more ki (more buffing!), plus the ability to distribute an extra +4 to a skill that stacks with Inspire Competence, or reroll an attack or save as an immediate action. </p>
<p>So that poison dart your partner succumbed to? Have them reroll that. Plus, you can reduce the cost of your bigger gun abilities (Ring of Ki Mastery). At level ten it goes into overdrive, as now things affect EVERY ally within 30'. </p>
<p>MASS RESTORATION! MASS +4 TO DODGE! YOU GET A TRUE STRIKE! YOU GET A TRUE STRIKE! EVERYONE GETS A TRUE STRIKE!</p>
<p>Again... I don't know about "best", but it is certainly unique.</p>I don't know if I would say "best", but one of the more unique ones that I'm loving right now (as a monk guy) is a Sensei/Ki Mystic Monk. You get some really good Bardic Performances (Inspire Courage, Competence, and Greatness), and access to all of the feats and add-ons of having Bardic Performance as a result. The unique part is the ability to give people your ki-based powers while using your "performance". With Qiggong substitutions, this provides a lot of variety. The Sensei casts...JAMRenaissance2018-02-24T17:16:15ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: I can't hit them !!! A DM in distress.JAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uuy9&page=3?I-cant-hit-them-A-DM-in-distress#1262018-02-10T05:38:14Z2018-02-10T05:31:57Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Ryan Freire wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">kaisc006 wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">DrDeth wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">kaisc006 wrote:</div><blockquote>Either way monsters will ignore him. </blockquote>Why? Does he have a sign "Hard to hit, but doesnt do any damage"? </blockquote>No when the other characters actually do something from casting an offensive spell to hitting for good damage they will have signs that say “hit me because I can kill you” </blockquote>Good thing he gives them all +4 to ac </blockquote><p>For perspective, a 10th level Sensei gives everyone within 30' +4 to AC for an hour and a half at the cost of a single ki point... and can Inspire Courage/Competence/Greatness, give out an extra 20' movement, allow everyone TrueStrike, etc.. All of this while keeping his Crane Style.Ryan Freire wrote:kaisc006 wrote: DrDeth wrote: kaisc006 wrote:Either way monsters will ignore him.
Why? Does he have a sign "Hard to hit, but doesnt do any damage"? No when the other characters actually do something from casting an offensive spell to hitting for good damage they will have signs that say “hit me because I can kill you” Good thing he gives them all +4 to ac For perspective, a 10th level Sensei gives everyone within 30' +4 to AC for an hour and a half at the cost of a single...JAMRenaissance2018-02-10T05:31:57ZRe: Forums: Advice: Disregarding Intelligence and Charisma.JAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u791?Disregarding-Intelligence-and-Charisma#112017-02-24T22:10:11Z2017-02-24T21:40:13Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">JosMartigan wrote:</div><blockquote> Well it's obvious the player of the half or isn't actually playing his 7 cha and 7 int. I wonder how they would take it if you brought up that he was literally ignoring those stats in regards how he should be playing the character? </blockquote><p>Co-sign here. This isn't "old school" mentality; I'm old enough to be old school, and I'd say that the player needs to either redo the stats to represent the actual charisma level of the character or role play the character as though s/he is both pretty dumb and not a very good communicator.
<p>What this guy is doing isn't "old school". It's allowing powergaming under the excuse of "just role-playing it".</p>JosMartigan wrote:Well it's obvious the player of the half or isn't actually playing his 7 cha and 7 int. I wonder how they would take it if you brought up that he was literally ignoring those stats in regards how he should be playing the character?
Co-sign here. This isn't "old school" mentality; I'm old enough to be old school, and I'd say that the player needs to either redo the stats to represent the actual charisma level of the character or role play the character as though s/he is both...JAMRenaissance2017-02-24T21:40:13ZRe: Forums: Advice: High(er) technology campaignJAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u6ai?High-technology-campaign#72017-02-14T10:03:47Z2017-02-11T00:25:18Z<p>So first off, yes, I'm actually running modules adapted to a world where Technology has risen to compete with a declining magic world. Here are a few of the Paizo resources that would be helpful:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/archetypes/paizo—-barbarian-archetypes/savage-technologist" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Savage Technologist Barbarian</a>: Most of the stuff in the Technology Guide implements new rules from what I saw, but this archetype happens to work fully in the current system.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo—-alchemist-archetypes/tinkerer-alchemist-archetype" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Tinkerer Alchemist</a>: You're looking at this for the level 14 ability - Clockwork Mimicries: Make a clockwork version of a single Wondrous Item. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/vigilante/archetypes/vigilante-archetypes—-paizo-inc/experimenter-vigilante-archetype" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Experimenter Vigilante</a>:Your vigilante is now a good enough chemist to make a mutagen and simply "know stuff" as the Bard class feature. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/gnome/experimental-gunsmith-gunslinger-gnome" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Experimental Gunsmith</a> Gnome only, but this lets you enhance your gun with some higher tech.</p>
<p>Finally, as my own houseruled class, I'd offer up to you <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yERKgNIXlVyynMbB0whJCD45_u9ucXX2aLEaIsdRne0/edit?usp=sharing" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">The Futurist</a>, which is a class that is meant to represent somewhere around the level of tech you seem to be espousing.</p>So first off, yes, I'm actually running modules adapted to a world where Technology has risen to compete with a declining magic world. Here are a few of the Paizo resources that would be helpful:
Savage Technologist Barbarian: Most of the stuff in the Technology Guide implements new rules from what I saw, but this archetype happens to work fully in the current system.
Tinkerer Alchemist: You're looking at this for the level 14 ability - Clockwork Mimicries: Make a clockwork version of a...JAMRenaissance2017-02-11T00:25:18ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why the resistance to limiting spellcasters?JAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u4mt&page=21?Why-the-resistance-to-limiting-spellcasters#10122017-02-01T04:03:16Z2017-01-31T02:16:11Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Milo v3 wrote:</div><blockquote> Class identity in Pathfinder is an odd thing. I'm currently going through every single class allowed in my campaign and seeing what archetypes and options they'd need to take to all become "monks", and so far the only issue is "village mystic who rides atop a ghost turtle, striking foes with his tiger fork" (the cavalier) is abit too far from monk than I'd prefer. </blockquote><p>But I need his stats, because that man is TOTALLY going to show up in my campaign. I don't care how I have to write him in...Milo v3 wrote:Class identity in Pathfinder is an odd thing. I'm currently going through every single class allowed in my campaign and seeing what archetypes and options they'd need to take to all become "monks", and so far the only issue is "village mystic who rides atop a ghost turtle, striking foes with his tiger fork" (the cavalier) is abit too far from monk than I'd prefer.
But I need his stats, because that man is TOTALLY going to show up in my campaign. I don't care how I have to write...JAMRenaissance2017-01-31T02:16:11ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why the resistance to limiting spellcasters?JAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u4mt&page=9?Why-the-resistance-to-limiting-spellcasters#4212017-01-26T22:04:24Z2017-01-26T20:40:35Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">kyrt-ryder wrote:</div><blockquote><p> That's a difficult task Jam. You run into opposition on ALL sides that way.</p>
<p>The people like me who like Joshua-to-Jehova Pathfinder, the people who believe in Pathfinder Middle-Earth AND the casual casty fans who see martials getting boosted simultaneous to their characters taking the Nerfbat.</p>
<p>The result is less balanced to the game as a whole if you take one extreme or the other [I've handled that in my game with a standard party of 3, a nerfbat casters down to martials game might be balanced with a party of 5 or 6] but better recieved by at least one target audience. </blockquote><p>Ya wanna know why I don't link my rules to this thread?
<p>So that when I go "You guys are rejecting the idea without ever really giving it a chance", I can do so without feeling hypocritical. Roger Valentis's post is an excellent one for me - there's a lot of different ways we could do this. However, the reaction given is NO! You can't do that! That's wrong! That seems silly. Even if it is not something YOU are into, there's no reason to go in and tell someone that THEY can't do it. </p>
<p>I found an online version of Kirthfinder a bit back. I /LOVE/ the level of detail, and I do admire the way martials are lifted. There's no way I could play it with my group, due to the complexity. I don't NEED to go into the Kirthfinder thread and say that it's too complicated. It's cool for people that enjoy that style to play that thing. </p>
<p>Why can't others have nice things?</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">kyrt-ryder wrote:</div><blockquote> My problem with Vancian isn't its existence, it's the way is made superior to every alternative. </blockquote><p>Dropping prepared spellcasting is the single biggest factor I can think of to balancing the classes.kyrt-ryder wrote:That's a difficult task Jam. You run into opposition on ALL sides that way.
The people like me who like Joshua-to-Jehova Pathfinder, the people who believe in Pathfinder Middle-Earth AND the casual casty fans who see martials getting boosted simultaneous to their characters taking the Nerfbat.
The result is less balanced to the game as a whole if you take one extreme or the other [I've handled that in my game with a standard party of 3, a nerfbat casters down to martials...JAMRenaissance2017-01-26T20:40:35ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Critique Wanted: House ruleset addressing martial-caster disparity...JAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u481?Critique-Wanted-House-ruleset-addressing#232017-02-01T08:38:11Z2017-01-23T06:14:02Z<p>OK, I rewrote the Fighter out as a class. Here it is, removing the fluff; I also have a link to this in the rules.</p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p>For perspective on Combat Stamina, here is the list of bonuses given when I converted an NPC from Hell's Vengence, the HellKnight Zara Orcelani, into this system. I am C&Ping it from the PCGen pdf output; I will fully say that I don't know if Combat Stamina is feasible if you don't have something electronic checking things out for you.</p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>OK, I rewrote the Fighter out as a class. Here it is, removing the fluff; I also have a link to this in the rules.
[Spoiler omitted]
For perspective on Combat Stamina, here is the list of bonuses given when I converted an NPC from Hell's Vengence, the HellKnight Zara Orcelani, into this system. I am C&Ping it from the PCGen pdf output; I will fully say that I don't know if Combat Stamina is feasible if you don't have something electronic checking things out for you.
[Spoiler omitted]JAMRenaissance2017-01-23T06:14:02ZForums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why the resistance to limiting spellcasters?JAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u4mt?Why-the-resistance-to-limiting-spellcasters#12017-01-26T06:14:33Z2017-01-18T21:56:30Z<p>... really, that's it. </p>
<p>I've been playing around with varying houserules to try to recreate what I see from the big major genres in "television" fantasy (LotR, CotT, GoT). The general idea I've seen is that those are all "low level" settings. I would argue that the characters are actually closer to midlevel - spellcasting is simply not as powerful and it is a low magic world. So it's not that the characters in Game of Thrones are level six or so (umm... Melisandre casts Raise Dead and Summon Monster VI, while Ja'qen seems to be at least 10th level if not 12th between Assassinate and Master Disguise), but that magic isn't quite as powerful. </p>
<p>The exact details of how the limiting occurs is irrelevant for the question. The question is one of why there is such an immediate reaction to limiting spellcasters in the first place. </p>
<p>So... wassupwitdat?</p>... really, that's it.
I've been playing around with varying houserules to try to recreate what I see from the big major genres in "television" fantasy (LotR, CotT, GoT). The general idea I've seen is that those are all "low level" settings. I would argue that the characters are actually closer to midlevel - spellcasting is simply not as powerful and it is a low magic world. So it's not that the characters in Game of Thrones are level six or so (umm... Melisandre casts Raise Dead and Summon...JAMRenaissance2017-01-18T21:56:30ZForums: Homebrew and House Rules: Critique Wanted: House ruleset addressing martial-caster disparity...JAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u481?Critique-Wanted-House-ruleset-addressing#12017-01-22T06:50:11Z2017-01-12T05:04:25Z<p>Technically, it addressed a custom world where magic and science are at odds in a way that weakened dimensional barriers... but it grew into my attempt to address martial caster disparity. </p>
<p>I'm looking for a critique so I can be proactive with my game. I'm running my players through Hell's Vengeance, converting the game as I go. I've gotten PCs through 4th level and NPCs through 8th; things have been fine thus far, but I am curious as to what challenges I may need to address once I get into the third book in the series. </p>
<p>So, with that said, the modifications for the world of Tycon, TyFinder, <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Z1xfHJq5nrJOVJMPA4WbSb4LK7d_6eqqvGIgv0I7its" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"> can be found here</a>. Thanks in advance for any insight!</p>Technically, it addressed a custom world where magic and science are at odds in a way that weakened dimensional barriers... but it grew into my attempt to address martial caster disparity.
I'm looking for a critique so I can be proactive with my game. I'm running my players through Hell's Vengeance, converting the game as I go. I've gotten PCs through 4th level and NPCs through 8th; things have been fine thus far, but I am curious as to what challenges I may need to address once I get into...JAMRenaissance2017-01-12T05:04:25ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: What's wrong with the fighterJAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u00s&page=21?Whats-wrong-with-the-fighter#10232020-10-31T02:44:15Z2017-01-11T21:56:35Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Arbane the Terrible wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">David knott 242 wrote:</div><blockquote><p> For anyone familiar with pre-3.0 D&D, the problem with the fighter is that it is no longer the easy, basic class that it was in earlier D&D baselines. Starting with D&D 3.0, the player of a Fighter needs to be knowledgeable about available feats, which is a non-trivial task for a novice to the game. The archetypes, advanced armor trainings, and advanced weapon trainings introduced in Pathfinder make the task of building a fighter character even harder.
</p>
</blockquote>Totally true. I like the basic idea behind feats, but most of them end up being useless shovelware, and even the good ones a Fighter would like to have end up with entirely too many prerequisites... so that Fighters can't get them too easily. </blockquote><p>I agree. I think the idea was that the bonus feats would be all of the class features a fighter would need, except that most feats aren't as powerful as a class feature.Arbane the Terrible wrote:David knott 242 wrote:For anyone familiar with pre-3.0 D&D, the problem with the fighter is that it is no longer the easy, basic class that it was in earlier D&D baselines. Starting with D&D 3.0, the player of a Fighter needs to be knowledgeable about available feats, which is a non-trivial task for a novice to the game. The archetypes, advanced armor trainings, and advanced weapon trainings introduced in Pathfinder make the task of building a fighter character even...JAMRenaissance2017-01-11T21:56:35ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: What's wrong with the fighterJAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u00s&page=21?Whats-wrong-with-the-fighter#10122017-01-12T13:50:45Z2017-01-11T19:52:49Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">necromental wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Cerberus Seven wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">JAMRenaissance wrote:</div><blockquote><p>Moving from fluff to mechanics, there's a lot of ways to houserule that. I have a whole set of Fighter mods, but the short of it is that there are a lot of subsystems that I think would be helpful to give the Fighter. Seriously - at level one, a Cavalier gets a mount, order, tactician, and the challenge ability. Did I mention he gets an entire horse? You know what the Fighter gets? A bonus Feat. One. They should, maybe, get a bit more.</p>
<p>What counts as that "more" is the line in the sand we're dealing with.</blockquote>I've often wondered if the cavalier, samurai, and fighter shouldn't all just be one class called the "soldier". Conceptually, it fits; a tough, professional warrior who knows how to fight solo or lead a group and wins the day without using use any type of magical ability. Gestalt them all together and it'd address some of the issues with skill points, saves, and out of combat utility. It'd require some tweaking here and there, but it could work. </blockquote>I agree with this, although my ideas also swallow swashbuckler, gunslinger and the brawler, too. </blockquote><p>Great minds. Here are my house rule adjustments to the Fighter (and Gunslinger, Swashbuckler, and Samurai). The Monk and Rogue similarly have the Ninja/Slayer and Brawler (respectively) "rolled up" inside of them. I described a lot of my changes in terms of how they address martial-caster disparity, but as I've participated in these threads, I think what I was trying to create with the house rules was what I see of fantasy on TV (LoTR, GoT, Clash of the Titans).
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>necromental wrote:Cerberus Seven wrote: JAMRenaissance wrote:Moving from fluff to mechanics, there's a lot of ways to houserule that. I have a whole set of Fighter mods, but the short of it is that there are a lot of subsystems that I think would be helpful to give the Fighter. Seriously - at level one, a Cavalier gets a mount, order, tactician, and the challenge ability. Did I mention he gets an entire horse? You know what the Fighter gets? A bonus Feat. One. They should, maybe, get a bit...JAMRenaissance2017-01-11T19:52:49ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: What's wrong with the fighterJAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u00s&page=20?Whats-wrong-with-the-fighter#9952017-01-16T05:07:04Z2017-01-11T18:30:37Z<p>I really went back and re-read the argument that Warriot Spirit doesn't fit the flavor of a Fighter and would like to add a few revised thoughts:</p>
<p>First, I'll apologize to anyone that thought me saying that Warrior Spirit doesn't fit in the for the Fighter was me saying it is WrongBadFun. It is closer to "I think it's a great solution from a mechanics viewpoint, but I don't follow how someone with the concept they are giving us would have this. Why not just let him shoot lightning bolts?". I think some of this is a function of shifting a line in the sand, so perhaps it would be better if we instead explained the line. </p>
<p>The characters that I think of as "Fighters" almost never have an intrinisically "magical" ability. They often have two things going for them, in terms of dealing with the impossible:</p>
<p>(1) The villians often have a mundane way of being defeated despite the inredible magical power of the creature, and</p>
<p>(2) The hero gets The One Weapon that allows them to defeat the baddies.</p>
<p>Using the movie "Clash of the Titans", Perseus doesn't overpower Medusa, but outsmarts her using his shield as a mirror, and then uses her head as The One True Weapon to beat the Kraken. </p>
<p>These ideas are not a function of the gameset. They are a function of the story. Having mundanes in your group doesn't mean you can't solve the problems; it means the GM has to make the story modifications needed in order to empower the mundane to deal with the problem.</p>
<p>The Magus, in this instance, doesn't "need" Medusa's head as much as the Fighter. </p>
<p>Still, though, we're talking a line in the sand in terms of what you should be able to do. Perseus was clearly more than Some Guy (Celestial Eldritch Heritage?). So, in order to explain my line in the sand, I have to explain a quick computer science concept. </p>
<p>A subclass in programming is a more specific example of a concept (class). A car may be a class (concept), and a drag racing car would be the subclass. You can define something in the computer to think of itself as one thing but behave as the other; I can create an object that thinks it is a car, but is really a drag racing car. So, it wouldn't be able to use nitroglycerin (drag racing cars do that, and it thinks it is a car), but if you put your foot on the gas, it moves forward like a sports car (driving is something a car can do, but it's built as a drag racing car, so it drives like a drag racing car). The common example I use is Clark Kent from Smallville - he thinks of himself as a human, so he can't fly (or, more specifically, doesn't know that he has the capacity to do so), but the second he starts running, it's at superspeed. </p>
<p>That is how I see the mundane classes. They are human (elf, dwarf, tiefling, aasimar, etc..), but they can do the things humans do to amazing levels (John Henry putting spikes in the train). So, does the Fighter leaping 30' seem like it's "too far"? No. Be able to damage anything with his sword? Cool. </p>
<p>Make the sword catch fire? OK... now you lost me. </p>
<p>Moving from fluff to mechanics, there's a lot of ways to houserule that. I have a whole set of Fighter mods, but the short of it is that there are a lot of subsystems that I think would be helpful to give the Fighter. Seriously - at level one, a Cavalier gets a mount, order, tactician, and the challenge ability. Did I mention he gets an entire horse? You know what the Fighter gets? A bonus Feat. One. They should, maybe, get a bit more. </p>
<p>What counts as that "more" is the line in the sand we're dealing with.</p>
<p>Here's the latest thing I've been rolling around in my head - what if the Fighter got an ability similar to Judgement, except mundane in nature (damage resistance becomes "She just never stops coming) and not allowing the Healing and Piercing judgements? It still fits the concept ("He's so bad he ran THROUGH the fire!") without moving too far into the fantastic?</p>
<p>In any case, though, I do want to stress that I see this totally as moving a line in the sand.</p>I really went back and re-read the argument that Warriot Spirit doesn't fit the flavor of a Fighter and would like to add a few revised thoughts:
First, I'll apologize to anyone that thought me saying that Warrior Spirit doesn't fit in the for the Fighter was me saying it is WrongBadFun. It is closer to "I think it's a great solution from a mechanics viewpoint, but I don't follow how someone with the concept they are giving us would have this. Why not just let him shoot lightning bolts?". I...JAMRenaissance2017-01-11T18:30:37ZRe: Forums: Advice: Monk issuesJAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tvub?Monk-issues#232016-09-06T22:52:18Z2016-09-06T18:32:45Z<p>In re: Lawful means follow every rule, doesn't that kill any Lawful Evil character as a threat?</p>
<p>Your GM and the players obviously have to agree on the definitions of any terms. I will cite that, as a GM, I rule Lawful vs Chaotic on a discipline spectrum. As a comic book fan, I use Lex Luthor as my example of Lawful Evil, with the Joker as Chaotic Evil. Both may create incredibly damaging plans, but the Joker is more likely to randomly shoot his underling. </p>
<p>The Mafia is a lawful organization, after all...</p>In re: Lawful means follow every rule, doesn't that kill any Lawful Evil character as a threat?
Your GM and the players obviously have to agree on the definitions of any terms. I will cite that, as a GM, I rule Lawful vs Chaotic on a discipline spectrum. As a comic book fan, I use Lex Luthor as my example of Lawful Evil, with the Joker as Chaotic Evil. Both may create incredibly damaging plans, but the Joker is more likely to randomly shoot his underling.
The Mafia is a lawful organization,...JAMRenaissance2016-09-06T18:32:45ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: The Complexity of Evil Campaigns and why I feel like I'm alone in my view of it.JAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tvbd&page=2?The-Complexity-of-Evil-Campaigns-and-why-I#642016-09-01T19:08:59Z2016-09-01T14:24:57Z<p>I'm playing Hell's Vengeance right now, and enjoying it a LOT more than I thought I would. Personally, as a GM, it is a fun change of place to regularly play the "good guys". </p>
<p>We have a few things going for us:</p>
<p>(1) The players are mostly related (two of my nieces, a nephew, my wife/their aunt, and a close family friend). I think this would be INCREDIBLY difficult with strangers.</p>
<p>(2) Everyone has a personal, in-character hook to at least one character, if not more. The nieces and nephew are all siblings that love each other in-character. The fourth character is a long-time ally of each of the three siblings separately, and the fifth is their gadget guy that shares a commonality with one of the siblings (they bond as an aasimar and tiefling in an area with no other outsider-based characters). </p>
<p>(3) We are all cool with a fairly open definition of "evil". "Evil", for this campaign, is willingness to force your view on for personal reasons. Almost any individual action, save necromancy, can theoretically be argued as "good" if done for the right reason - we call slavery in the name of repaying a debt to society "jail". Necromancy is the only exception, since forcing a soul that has passed from the beyond into your service will ALWAYS be considered a "personal reason". That isn't to say that this is the only way, but it is to say that everyone is explicit on the system walking into things.</p>
<p>Even then, we did take a session and a half or so establishing that Evil Stupid is not an alignment. You don't smart off to your boss when you are the equivalent of the hyenas in The Lion King. After that, though... this has been great.</p>I'm playing Hell's Vengeance right now, and enjoying it a LOT more than I thought I would. Personally, as a GM, it is a fun change of place to regularly play the "good guys".
We have a few things going for us:
(1) The players are mostly related (two of my nieces, a nephew, my wife/their aunt, and a close family friend). I think this would be INCREDIBLY difficult with strangers.
(2) Everyone has a personal, in-character hook to at least one character, if not more. The nieces and nephew are...JAMRenaissance2016-09-01T14:24:57ZRe: Forums: Advice: Guide to the Class GuidesJAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2m612&page=24?Guide-to-the-Class-Guides#11542016-02-25T06:44:51Z2016-02-02T15:04:36Z<p>I have a new guide, this one to Hybrid Archetypes (combining multiple archetypes for a new concept) for the Monk. </p>
<p><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-IdBUQ7A8FNa_R_caBNFXdaurdWgAaE4qpzzU_AcRBI/edit" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">JAM'S Hybrid Archetype Guide: The Monk</a></p>
<p><a href="http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tal6?JAM-s-Hybrid-Archetype-Guide-The-Monk" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Discussion Thread</a></p>I have a new guide, this one to Hybrid Archetypes (combining multiple archetypes for a new concept) for the Monk.
JAM'S Hybrid Archetype Guide: The Monk
Discussion ThreadJAMRenaissance2016-02-02T15:04:36ZForums: Advice: JAM’s Hybrid Archetype Guide: The MonkJAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tal6?JAM-s-Hybrid-Archetype-Guide-The-Monk#12017-04-19T16:02:27Z2016-02-02T06:33:01Z<p>Hey all, </p>
<p>My newest guide is now ready for public consumption. I wrote the Master of Many Styles Guide to prepare for its usage in the Hybrid Archetyping Guide. Basically, no single archetype can raise up a Monk as much as Zen Archer... but perhaps if we combine two or three....</p>
<p>So here it is: <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-IdBUQ7A8FNa_R_caBNFXdaurdWgAaE4qpzzU_AcRBI/edit?usp=sharing" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">JAM’s Hybrid Archetype Guide: The Monk</a></p>
<p>Give me thoughts! Thanks!</p>Hey all,
My newest guide is now ready for public consumption. I wrote the Master of Many Styles Guide to prepare for its usage in the Hybrid Archetyping Guide. Basically, no single archetype can raise up a Monk as much as Zen Archer... but perhaps if we combine two or three....
So here it is: JAM’s Hybrid Archetype Guide: The Monk
Give me thoughts! Thanks!JAMRenaissance2016-02-02T06:33:01ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Beginner's Guide to the NEW Master of Many StylesJAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2t9xg&page=2?The-Beginners-Guide-to-the-NEW-Master-of-Many#732016-02-01T04:34:49Z2016-01-31T16:51:08Z<p>I'm now comfortable with calling this a "Version 1.0" of the guide. I now know in the future to finish my guide and THEN start talking about it. </p>
<p>Here is <a href="https://drive.google.com/open?id=1r-Wh9DgkEwF3Wtj8QMDTdF2kVpQVCS5BCjU2vPcG7Wk" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">The Beginner's Basics To The Master Of Many Styles</a>.</p>I'm now comfortable with calling this a "Version 1.0" of the guide. I now know in the future to finish my guide and THEN start talking about it.
Here is The Beginner's Basics To The Master Of Many Styles.JAMRenaissance2016-01-31T16:51:08ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Beginner's Guide to the NEW Master of Many StylesJAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2t9xg&page=2?The-Beginners-Guide-to-the-NEW-Master-of-Many#522016-01-29T03:36:49Z2016-01-28T17:49:15Z<p>I will certainly credit this! Thanks!</p>I will certainly credit this! Thanks!JAMRenaissance2016-01-28T17:49:15ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Beginner's Guide to the NEW Master of Many StylesJAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2t9xg?The-Beginners-Guide-to-the-NEW-Master-of-Many#422016-01-27T17:02:35Z2016-01-27T16:50:43Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Scott Wilhelm wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">JAMRenaissance wrote:</div><blockquote>Bloody Ghost Monk (Hungry Ghost/Master of Many Styles)</blockquote><p>Cool, like Quinngong Drunken Master of Many Styles.
<p>It reminds me of a movie I saw: Interview with the Army of the 12 Vampire Monkeys of Darkness. </blockquote><p>Thanks, though admittedly I've been second-guessing the Feat order ever since I hit "Submit Post". The thought is to use Panther Style and Snake Style to generate attacks of opportunity that trigger Boar Style's Flesh Tear for extra damage. The more times you do extra damage, the more likely you'll drop the opponent to 0 and be able to steal their ki.
<p>With that in mind... I'm still second guessing the order of the Feats. </p>
<p>This does also illustrate another aspect of MoMS; it is INCREDIBLY easier to pull off if you are Human. This example is the exact example of being able to pull off two Styles at Level One, since a human CAN take Panther Style at first level as a regular Feat instead of as a bonus Feat, thus allowing you to take Boar Style first level and Snake Style second level as bonuses.</p>Scott Wilhelm wrote:JAMRenaissance wrote:Bloody Ghost Monk (Hungry Ghost/Master of Many Styles)
Cool, like Quinngong Drunken Master of Many Styles. It reminds me of a movie I saw: Interview with the Army of the 12 Vampire Monkeys of Darkness. Thanks, though admittedly I've been second-guessing the Feat order ever since I hit "Submit Post". The thought is to use Panther Style and Snake Style to generate attacks of opportunity that trigger Boar Style's Flesh Tear for extra damage. The more...JAMRenaissance2016-01-27T16:50:43ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Beginner's Guide to the NEW Master of Many StylesJAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2t9xg?The-Beginners-Guide-to-the-NEW-Master-of-Many#292016-01-27T16:05:25Z2016-01-27T04:09:05Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Scott Wilhelm wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I have to say that I was very upset by recent changes to the Master of Many Styles description. I really enjoyed being able to take Snake Fang after only 2 levels in MOMS Monk, and I felt very discourged at the idea of playing another one.</p>
<p>The Bonus Feats only allow you to take more Style Feats, and only the initial Feat in each Style Feat Tree is actually a Style Feat.</p>
<p>I hope you can find some cool MOMS builds and make a believer out of me again. </blockquote><p>If you want something like that, I'm probably going to disappoint you. The scenario you are describing is the exact scenario that the errata sought to avoid. There will be no more quick fixes... no more Pummeling Charge at Level 2.
<p>On the other hand, the Hybrid Archetype I was working on that inspired me to do this analysis was an idea I call the Bloody Ghost Monk, a Hungry Ghost / Master of Many Styles (Boar, Panther, Snake) that has a recommended substitution of Truestrike and Scorching Ray for Slow Fall and High Jump. It really comes online at Level 9, when Snake Fang kicks in, but the idea is to use a combination of attacks of opportunity and retributive strikes to cause flesh tears and bleed damage. This is to help make the Monk the cause behind a killing blow, which can then be used to get more ki. </p>
<p>I dunno about the efficiency of the mechanics, but I think the idea is cool.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">The Mortonator wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Ah, no, I had no heard about the rules change.</p>
<p>Not that I believe that precludes taking MoMS as a dip. It's obviously much worse early game, but getting a second style is always nice. </blockquote><p>Hmmm... that's true. Not a lot of ways to get multiple Styles, and for a Brawler a single level that lets them have, say, Pummeling and Jabbing styles would be pretty darned handy.Scott Wilhelm wrote:I have to say that I was very upset by recent changes to the Master of Many Styles description. I really enjoyed being able to take Snake Fang after only 2 levels in MOMS Monk, and I felt very discourged at the idea of playing another one.
The Bonus Feats only allow you to take more Style Feats, and only the initial Feat in each Style Feat Tree is actually a Style Feat.
I hope you can find some cool MOMS builds and make a believer out of me again.
If you want something...JAMRenaissance2016-01-27T04:09:05ZRe: Forums: Advice: Archetype Tier List: A Guide to Picking ArchetypesJAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2t5uc&page=10?Archetype-Tier-List-A-Guide-to-Picking#4742016-01-26T07:57:26Z2016-01-25T21:35:45Z<p>OK... I've been working to finish the Master of Many Styles Guide. Not that it is close to done, but I've at least got the Styles all reviewed. The thread for the alpha version <a href="http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2t9xg?Master-of-Many-Styles-Guide" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">can be found here</a>; I would really love thoughts, because I don't feel nearly as comfortable with my Style Reviews as I did the archetype mods.</p>OK... I've been working to finish the Master of Many Styles Guide. Not that it is close to done, but I've at least got the Styles all reviewed. The thread for the alpha version can be found here; I would really love thoughts, because I don't feel nearly as comfortable with my Style Reviews as I did the archetype mods.JAMRenaissance2016-01-25T21:35:45ZForums: Advice: The Beginner's Guide to the NEW Master of Many StylesJAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2t9xg?The-Beginners-Guide-to-the-NEW-Master-of-Many#12017-08-03T10:33:42Z2016-01-25T21:31:49Z<p>I did some work for Icy Turbo's Guide to picking archetypes (the thread for which can be <a href="http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2t5uc&page=last?Archetype-Tier-List-A-Guide-to-Picking" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"> found right here</a>), specifically the Monk Archetypes. As part of that, I began trying to review the Master of Many Styles, and realized that the archetype is so different and so mechanics-heavy that it may need its own seperate guide. </p>
<p>I can't say that I've done a full pass at it, because there are a lot of idiosyncrasies to the archetype. Specifically, in order to max out the power of the archetype, you need to be able to go deeply into the Feat Chains for the Styles, and balancing prerequisites and the like is not a small thing. </p>
<p>I have made it through a first pass of rating the various styles in specific reference to how well they fit as part of the Master of Many Styles. It is NOT a formal Style Guide per se, as the MoMS has a number of quirks that make certain styles better for it than any other character. The biggest example is something like Jabbing Style, which is a powerful Style on its own, but is less effective for a MoMS due to the lack of Flurry of Blows. </p>
<p>The first pass at the Style Ratings and the like <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1r-Wh9DgkEwF3Wtj8QMDTdF2kVpQVCS5BCjU2vPcG7Wk/edit" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">can be found right here</a>. My next task is analyzing how best to implement the style. For example, </p>
<p><ul><li>Is it worth it to go for two Styles at Level One, particularly when the only Styles that one can take this way at first level are Snapping Turtle Style, Panther Style (if human), Cudgeler Style (if human), and Crane Style (if human)?
<br />
<li>Which styles have prerequisites that are commonly shared, thus making it easier to go up the Feat Chain?
<br />
<li>Which Styles have complementary abilities, generalizing the possible things the Style can do as Offensive To-Hit, Offensive Damage, Additional Attacks, Additional Defense, and Other Bonuses (such as Marid Style's increased Reach, or Overslug Styles 10' steps)?
<br />
</ul></p>
<p>What are people's thoughts on the Style Ratings? Are these good questions to take the time to analyze? Is there anything else I should think of? Any thoughts on formatting (as it is kind of in "brain dump" mode right now).</p>I did some work for Icy Turbo's Guide to picking archetypes (the thread for which can be found right here), specifically the Monk Archetypes. As part of that, I began trying to review the Master of Many Styles, and realized that the archetype is so different and so mechanics-heavy that it may need its own seperate guide.
I can't say that I've done a full pass at it, because there are a lot of idiosyncrasies to the archetype. Specifically, in order to max out the power of the archetype, you...JAMRenaissance2016-01-25T21:31:49ZRe: Forums: Advice: Archetype Tier List: A Guide to Picking ArchetypesJAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2t5uc&page=9?Archetype-Tier-List-A-Guide-to-Picking#4292016-01-22T04:13:08Z2016-01-21T16:30:33Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">UnArcaneElection wrote:</div><blockquote><p>With respect to where to put the Monk Guide, it looks like it really needs to be its own guide, with references to it from the Monk section of the archetype guide. In addition, Master of Many Styles may need its own sub-guide, and as more archetypes compatible with Unchained Monk come out (what are we at now, 2? — and that doesn't count Qinggong, which is rolled into Unchained Monk), Unchained Monk will need its own guide.
</p>
</blockquote><p>The deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole I go, the more I see the need for separate things. It's GOING to be too big; I only analyzed about half of the available styles thus far, sticking to the "Expanded Core". Last year's Weapon Master Handbook and Dirty Tactics Toolkit added a lot to the Styles, and some of the race-based Styles are pretty awesome. Given that there's some stuff I'd like to add, I'm thinking it is a good idea to separate those out.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">UnArcaneElection wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
<div class="messageboard-quotee">JAMRenaissance wrote:</div><blockquote><p> {. . .}
</p>
Wouldn't natural weapons be a really niche thing for a Monk? I haven't done that sort of analysis. </blockquote><p>It depends upon who you are.. For races like Changelings and Tengu and a subset of Tieflings and Half-Orcs, this could be a big deal.
</p>
</blockquote><p>The question I keep finding myself asking, and this goes along with the Stunning Fist vs Touch of Serenity idea as well, is that I'm hesitant to put more situation-specific stuff in a general description. Do we want to change the rating for something if it only works with specific races, 3/4s of which aren't in the Core book?
<p>What I'm thinking is to remove the archetype combination information and replace that with a "Recommended Usage" section of some sort. That way, we can say for everything that removes Flurry of Blows "Synergizes with natural weapons" or for Stunning Fist "Most effective against low-FORT opponents"? </p>
<p>Finally, in terms of the +2/-2 thing... I'd prefer someone else re-rate. :) With that in mind, would we say that the only archetypes that would really get "good" rating are Zen Archer, Tetori, and Sohei? Sensei and Master of Many Styles are good, but I question if they stand alone as well.</p>UnArcaneElection wrote:With respect to where to put the Monk Guide, it looks like it really needs to be its own guide, with references to it from the Monk section of the archetype guide. In addition, Master of Many Styles may need its own sub-guide, and as more archetypes compatible with Unchained Monk come out (what are we at now, 2? -- and that doesn't count Qinggong, which is rolled into Unchained Monk), Unchained Monk will need its own guide.
The deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole I...JAMRenaissance2016-01-21T16:30:33ZRe: Forums: Advice: Archetype Tier List: A Guide to Picking ArchetypesJAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2t5uc&page=9?Archetype-Tier-List-A-Guide-to-Picking#4272016-01-21T03:55:39Z2016-01-21T02:37:18Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Alex Mack wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
You've gotten plenty of feedback on that here and I pointed out that assigning +2 Power to !10! different Archetypes is not feasible.</p>
<p>Others have suggested that only Zen Archer and Qinggong deserve a +2 (an assessment I personally agree with).
<br />
</blockquote><p>Let me stop you right there. There are 27 Monk archetypes, not counting Qinggong. You just said it would be fine if I kept it at two archetypes getting a +2 Power, which is a lot less than 20%. So the problem isn't that I'm skewing the amounts; it's that I'm skewing the amounts in a way that you don't agree with. This is a subjective process; we won't necessarily agree.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Alex Mack wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
I also criticized the rating of a specific Archetype. Your response did not necessarily inspire me to continue discussing with you tbh.
<br />
</blockquote><p>Same thing here. I value the ability to deal with a conventional frontline situation more than the ability to deal with what I'd deem a niche one. The biggest problem with the Monk is that, even compared to other "mundanes", it's not very effective at melee combat. Going from needing a Fort Save to needing a Will Save is a huge boost in power in that paradigm. You happen to subscribe to a different one.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">PossibleCabbage wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Alex Mack wrote:</div><blockquote> Others have suggested that only Zen Archer and Qinggong deserve a +2 (an assessment I personally agree with). </blockquote><p>I think a lot of those monk +2s could easily be +1s and still convey a lot of the same information (a la "this is a good archetype.")
</p>
</blockquote><p>So now we're okay with a bell curve, at least in concept?
<p>Guys, I think we're eyeballing a situation and then wondering why we're not seeing the same things. We may not have the same vision, or at the very least I may not. Here's what I think: If someone else is cool with redoing the ratings specifying some number as the "best" archetypes besides Zen Archer, I can integrate them into what I have and redo the recommended archetype combinations based on the "best" list. I'm really not that attached to the numbers there. The numbers I have make sense to me, but my vision isn't necessarily everyone else's. Moreover, I may have been shortchanging things with my list of recommended combos; I actually think there's some really good stuff to be mined from the "lesser" archetypes. </p>
<p>That brings me to where I personally want to go next. I really don't like the level of system mastery needed to make the Monk work. I don't know if this guide would be a good place to do this or if the concept is one that has evolved beyond the original archetype guide, but I think one thing that can be done is putting the archetype combos into an easy format that people can easily replicate and follow. I'm thinking of calling the idea Hybrid Archetypes. They will be a combination of archetypes formatted together in a manner that is thematically consistent while still being at the least more viable than the original Monk. As well, a few recommendations can be included, specifically for Qinggong substitutions, Master of Many Styles Feat progressions, and just general helpful hints. Admittedly, the first one may not be the MOST effective, but I do think it has a fun feel to it. The first couple use archetypes that I previously thought I'd find no use for. Shows how much I know, and how much it may help to have someone else take a look at things. </p>
<p><span class=messageboard-bigger><b>Wrestler</b></span> <i>(Kata Master / Tetori)</i>
<br />
[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p><span class=messageboard-bigger><b>Weapon Master</b></span><i>(Manuever Master / Weapon Adept)</i>
<br />
[Spoiler omitted]</p>Alex Mack wrote:You've gotten plenty of feedback on that here and I pointed out that assigning +2 Power to !10! different Archetypes is not feasible.Others have suggested that only Zen Archer and Qinggong deserve a +2 (an assessment I personally agree with).
Let me stop you right there. There are 27 Monk archetypes, not counting Qinggong. You just said it would be fine if I kept it at two archetypes getting a +2 Power, which is a lot less than 20%. So the problem isn't that I'm skewing the...JAMRenaissance2016-01-21T02:37:18ZRe: Forums: Advice: Archetype Tier List: A Guide to Picking ArchetypesJAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2t5uc&page=9?Archetype-Tier-List-A-Guide-to-Picking#4132016-01-21T04:18:58Z2016-01-19T16:54:16Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">UnArcaneElection wrote:</div><blockquote><p> ^Wow, this could morph into a whole new Monk guide (and that's not even getting to Unchained Monk yet). Maybe even a guide specific to Master of Many Styles, which looks like it is needed (and I wonder if Unchained Monk will ever get an equivalent archetype, the way it rolls in Qinggong).</p>
<p>One other note I would put in is that if you have Natural Weapons, archetypes like Master of Many Styles that trade out Flurry of Blows get better, since you cannot use Natural Attacks with Flurry of Blows unless you invest in Weapon Focus ({your type of Natural Attack, just 1 type at a time}) and Feral Combat Training ({your type of Natural Attack, just 1 type at a time}), which is a substantial feat tax even if you have just 1 type of Natural Attack and gets prohibitive if you have more than 1 type of Natural Attack (each one needing its tax of 2 feats to be made usable with Flurry of Blows).
<br />
</blockquote><p>A Monk requires a sickening level of System Mastery in order to create something thematically workable while being mechanically efficient. I hope that the stuff I'm doing actually helps people.
<p>Wouldn't natural weapons be a really niche thing for a Monk? I haven't done that sort of analysis.</p>UnArcaneElection wrote:^Wow, this could morph into a whole new Monk guide (and that's not even getting to Unchained Monk yet). Maybe even a guide specific to Master of Many Styles, which looks like it is needed (and I wonder if Unchained Monk will ever get an equivalent archetype, the way it rolls in Qinggong).
One other note I would put in is that if you have Natural Weapons, archetypes like Master of Many Styles that trade out Flurry of Blows get better, since you cannot use Natural...JAMRenaissance2016-01-19T16:54:16ZRe: Forums: Advice: Archetype Tier List: A Guide to Picking ArchetypesJAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2t5uc&page=9?Archetype-Tier-List-A-Guide-to-Picking#4112016-01-19T07:08:41Z2016-01-19T03:35:57Z<p>I made a mistake above; the Master of Many Styles and Sohei are NOT compatible, as each modifies the Bonus Feats. My bad. </p>
<p>Here are a few more sample archetype combos for the Monk. </p>
<p><b>The Bodyguard</b>: <i>Hamatulasu Master/Monk of the Healing Hand/Monk of the Iron Mountain</i>
<br />
This is the classic #2 Bad Guy, capable of healing or even bring her boss back to life. Physically tough herself, using Hamatulatsu for offense and the combination of healing, raising dead, and restoration to keep her boss/client/employer in the game.
<br />
[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p><b>True Drunken Master</b>:<i>Drunken Master/Monk of the Four Winds/Sensei</i>
<br />
The burden of wisdom is too much for some. She is still capable of using the very knowledge that drove her to drink to devastating effect. Though often of low STR, the Drunken Master ups her damage with Elemental Fists and Drunken Strength while aiding her teammates via Sensei abilities, Slowing Time, and linking everyone's minds.
<br />
[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p><b>The Bleeding Ghost</b>:<i>Hungry Ghost Monk / Master of Many Styles</i>
<br />
The Bleeding Ghost maximizes the usage of of his Hungry Ghost abilities by maximizing both potential attacks per turn via Two Weapon Fighting and Snake Fang, and damage with Jabbing Style and Boar Style. Snake Sidewind allows for confirmation of criticals via Sense Motive, giving more chances to steal ki. All Feats are taken to maximize Master of Many Styles.
<br />
[Spoiler omitted]</p>I made a mistake above; the Master of Many Styles and Sohei are NOT compatible, as each modifies the Bonus Feats. My bad.
Here are a few more sample archetype combos for the Monk.
The Bodyguard: Hamatulasu Master/Monk of the Healing Hand/Monk of the Iron Mountain
This is the classic #2 Bad Guy, capable of healing or even bring her boss back to life. Physically tough herself, using Hamatulatsu for offense and the combination of healing, raising dead, and restoration to keep her...JAMRenaissance2016-01-19T03:35:57ZRe: Forums: Advice: Archetype Tier List: A Guide to Picking ArchetypesJAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2t5uc&page=9?Archetype-Tier-List-A-Guide-to-Picking#4102016-01-19T07:08:29Z2016-01-18T21:27:40Z<p>Here is the latest run through on the Monk, adding in a section on Master of Many Styles and archetype compatibilities among the recommended archetypes. </p>
<p><b>Monk</b>
<br />
[Spoiler omitted]
<br />
<b>Monk of the Empty Hand</b> Power 0, Versatility -2: Congratulations! You have now reduced your Monk to a one-trick pony, with that one trick being improvised weapons. This is similar to Far Strike Monk, except even less useful on a practical level.</p>
<p><b><i>Monk of the Four Winds</i></b> Dip Power 0, Dip Versatility 0, Power 2, Versatility 1: Stunning Fist gets replaced with a scalable damage bonus in a sidegrade. Slow Time's extra actions are nice, but are a severe downgrade from Abundant Step. The Aspects are nice, and replace an ability that isn't stellar.<i>Recommended Archetype Combinations: Drunken master/Monk of the Iron Mountain, Drunken master/Sensei, Ki Mystic/Monk of the Iron Mountain, Ki Mystic/Sensei </i></p>
<p><b><i>Monk of the Healing Hand</i></b> Power 0, Versatility 1: Instead of healing yourself you can heal others. However, if you have to use this your party has done something terribly wrong. Ki Sacifice lets you bring people back from the dead, which is definitely a worthy trade off from Diamond Body and Quivering Palm. This is far from as helpful as Ki Mystic, but it stacks with a few other, stronger archetypes. <i>Recommended Archetype Combinations: Hamatulatsu Master, Monk of the Iron Mountain, Sensei, Tetori</i></p>
<p><b><i>Monk of the Iron Mountain</i></b> Power 1, Versatility 0: Evasion, Improved Evasion, Slow Fall, and High Jump get replaced with passive defenses preventing tripping and undesired movement, damage resistance, and an AC bonus. Not bad. <i>Recommended Archetype Combinations: Drunken Master/Master of Many Styles, Hungry Ghost Monk/Master of Many Styles, Ki Mystic/Master of Many Styles, Ki Mystic/Monk of the Four Winds</i></p>
<p><b><i>Monk of the Lotus</i></b> Dip Power 2 Versatility 0 Power 2 Versatility 2: If the Monk is on the front line, the thing s/he will want to Stunning Fist probably has a high Fort save. It also probably has a low Will Save, which makes Touch of Serenity a huge upgrade. An extended duration as you level up is gravy. As well, between Touch of Peace and Touch of Serenity, you can make your enemies into pets for almost weeks at a time with no save. Let's repeat that: you can make your enemies into pets for almost weeks at a time with no save. There is only one archetype option that is an upgrade to Abundant Step; this is it. <i>Recommended Archetype Combinations: Drunken master/Master of Many Styles, Drunken master/Sensei, Ki Mystic/Master of Many Styles, Ki Mystic/Sensei </i></p>
<p><b>Monk of the Mantis</b> Power 2 Versatility -2: Trade away those Bonus Feats for the ability to Sneak Attack with your Flurry. Yes please! The problem is that everything afterwards is a downgrade. Stunning Fist becomes less dependable as you level, so you are trading passive defense for additional effects on an iffy attack. It's simply not worth it.</p>
<p><b>Monk of the Seven Winds</b>Dip Power 2, Dip Versatility 0, Power 1 Versatility -1: Trading Stunning Fist for an additional attack with a blade is nice, if you have a dip build that is dependent on unarmed strikes. The bonuses to attack, damage, and AC from Sirocco Fury are in no way, shape, or form worth losing Abundant Step over.
<br />
<b>Monk Vows</b> As a whole, I can't recommend Monk Vows, as the reward:cost ratio is just too low. As well, remember that we want to sub out as many abilities as possible, and replacing Still Mind cuts you out of useful archetypes. With that said, if one were to consider taking a Monk Vow, Cleanliness, Peace, Poverty, and Truth seem to be the most bang for one's buck.</p>
<p><b><i>Qinggong Monk</i></b> Power 2 Versatility 2 to the fourth power: Let's be clear:
<br />
Every Monk is a Qinggong Monk.
<br />
If you don't like a class feature, you sub it out with one you do like. Here are some recommendations. </p>
<p><ul>
<br />
<li>Slow Fall and High Jump: Barkskin, Truestrike, Scorching Ray
<br />
<li>Wholeness of Body: Gaseous Form, Heroic Recovery, High Jump (if subbed out earlier), Remove Disease
<br />
<li>Diamond Body: Dragon's Breath (Note that nothing says you can't change the type of dragon with each usage, which does provide versatility), Discordant Blast (very few things are resistant to sound), Restoration, Ki Leech, Shadow Step
<br />
<li>Abundant Step: Shadow Walk
<br />
<li>Diamond Soul: Abundant Step (if subbed before or taken out of the archetype), Shadow Walk, Battlefield Mindlink, Diamond Body (if subbed or taken out of the archetype)(NOTE: You probably want to sub out Diamond Soul no matter what, depending on how strict your GM is in enforcing the Spell Resistance when you are willing. Anything from the Diamond Body list on up is probably sufficient for this substitution)
<br />
<li>Quivering Palm: Blood Crow Strike, Cloud Step (don't forget that you need a Slow Fall speed), Cold Ice Strike, Ki Shout, Sonic Thrust
<br />
<li>Timeless Body: Any of the Quivering Palm choices are appropriate, plus Strangling Hair
<br />
<li>Empty Body and Perfect Self: Nothing is really worth subbing out.
<br />
</ul></p>
<p><b><i>Sensei</i></b> Power 1 Versatility 2: Wanna be Mr. Miyagi? You lose Fast Movement, Flurrying, and most of your bonus feats, but you gain bardic performance and the ability to confer other abilities onto your friends. The cherry on top is Wisdom to Hit, which makes this one of only two archetypes that successfully makes the Monk less MAD. <i>Recommended Archetype Combinations: Drunken Master, Hungry Ghost Monk, Monk of the Healing Hand, Sohei, Ki Mystic/Monk of the Four Winds, Ki Mystic/Monk of the Lotus</i></p>
<p><b><i>Serpent-Fire Adept</i></b> Power 1 Versatility 2: You lose your Stunning Fist, Bonus Feats, High Jump, Slow Fall, and Wholeness of Body in order to gain Chakras giving scaling damage resistance, flight, a breath weapon that bypasses energy resistance, healing/condition removal, staggering opponents, and true seeing. Yes, this is worth it. <i>Recommended Archetype Combinations: Drunken Master, Ki Mystic/Master of Many Styles</i></p>
<p><b><i>Sohei</i></b> Power 2 Versatility -1: You gain the ability to use all martial weapons and armor, can give a mount your monk abilities, and can use your ki to enhance your weapon. Why the negative Versatility? It costs eleven class abilities. If there is a second standalone archetype for a Monk besides Zen Archer, this is it. <i>Recommended Archetype Combinations: Master of Many Styles, Sensei</i></p>
<p><b>Spirit Master</b>Power -1 Versatility -1: You gain a wide variety of abilities dealing with the incorpeal and minor manipulation of positive/negative energy. Nowhere near worth the sacrifice.</p>
<p><b>Terra Cotta Monk</b> Just... no.</p>
<p><b><i>Tetori</i></b> Power 2 Versatility -1: Congratulations! You are now a one-trick pony... except Grappling is a good trick (and the second best one-trick pony Monk). Your feats are chosen for you, but all useful, and your abilities all sync well with grappling, with the grab ability, constrict ability, and the cancellation of magical methods of escape. Losing High Jump and Abundant Step are the only real negatives. This is another high-level archetype. <i>Recommended Archetype Combinations: Monk of the Healing Hand</i></p>
<p><b><i>Weapon Adept</i></b> Dip Power: 2 Dip Versatility 0 Power 2 Versatility -1: Perfect Strike is a pure upgrade, trading a questionably useful ability for a useful one. Free Weapon Focus and Specialization is worth delaying Evasion and losing improved evasion. Uncanny Initiative is worth it and... well, no one ever makes it to the capstone anyway. <i>Recommended Archetype Combinations: Drunken Master, Ki Mystic</i></p>
<p><b>Wildcat</b> Power -2 Versatility -2: No amount of combat manuever bonuses are worth totally losing your ki pool. That is all.</p>
<p><b>Zen Archer</b> Power 2 Versatility 0: Congratulations! You are a one trick pony with the single best trick available. It is a great trick and a lightning-fast Pony. Take the great stuff from Weapon Adept, tack on Feats all designed for your bow, add Wisdom to hit (making this the other less-MAD archetype), the ability to make attacks of opportunity, and a bunch of other goodies. This is the only archetype that raises the Monk up a Tier in power, and is the template for any other combinations of archetypes.
<br />
[/spoiler]</p>Here is the latest run through on the Monk, adding in a section on Master of Many Styles and archetype compatibilities among the recommended archetypes.
Monk
[Spoiler omitted]
Monk of the Empty Hand Power 0, Versatility -2: Congratulations! You have now reduced your Monk to a one-trick pony, with that one trick being improvised weapons. This is similar to Far Strike Monk, except even less useful on a practical level.
Monk of the Four Winds Dip Power 0, Dip Versatility 0, Power 2,...JAMRenaissance2016-01-18T21:27:40ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Are my house rules too much?JAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2t0bc?Are-my-house-rules-too-much#152015-10-15T17:30:37Z2015-10-15T16:37:49Z<p>Particularly given that a LOT of your adjustments are Pathfinder Unchained stuff, I think you've made less modifications than you think. With that in mind, presentation is just as important as content. Handing a player a 13 page doc and saying "Here ya go" is very different from handing a half a page of changes that exist to your character. </p>
<p>I just added two players to a campaign that I am running which is fairly heavily modded. I first asked what kinds of characters they wanted. When they said "Alchemist and Hunter", I only then said "I rewrote alchemy, so check this out and let me know if you're sure". For the Hunter player, I didn't need to bother her with anything. </p>
<p>I think your mileage will go a lot more if you customized what you were presenting to only show the stuff that directly affects them, and then handing over the thirteen page doc if they want to know everything that was modified.</p>Particularly given that a LOT of your adjustments are Pathfinder Unchained stuff, I think you've made less modifications than you think. With that in mind, presentation is just as important as content. Handing a player a 13 page doc and saying "Here ya go" is very different from handing a half a page of changes that exist to your character.
I just added two players to a campaign that I am running which is fairly heavily modded. I first asked what kinds of characters they wanted. When they...JAMRenaissance2015-10-15T16:37:49ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Minor Houserules you feel are an improvement to the gameJAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2syxh?Minor-Houserules-you-feel-are-an-improvement#172015-09-29T14:30:03Z2015-09-29T14:13:34Z<p>I like the critical hit/critical failure decks. It adds a fun variability that only minimally complicates things.</p>I like the critical hit/critical failure decks. It adds a fun variability that only minimally complicates things.JAMRenaissance2015-09-29T14:13:34ZForums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Do Magic Items "Bake in" Martial/Caster Disparity?JAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2sxqk?Do-Magic-Items-Bake-in-MartialCaster-Disparity#12015-09-15T09:20:14Z2015-09-14T14:14:26Z<p>Hey guys, </p>
<p>Let's get this out of the way first - Casters are more powerful than Martials because Magic. There is no way around it; you are moving lines in the sand, but not changing anything. </p>
<p>So with that as the context (and the acceptance that trying to completely get rid of it is a fools' errand), does having a wide selection of magic items available increase or decrease the martial/caster disparity?</p>
<p>In two recent campaigns I played in both GMs outlawed Metamagic Rods. When asked why, there was an immediate "Too Powerful". In playing a Sorcerer, I began to to invest in some Metamagic feats, to which an experienced player (that didn't happen to know about the outlaw of MM Rods) immediately asked why I'd waste Feats on MetaMagic when I could just get a rod? The idea was that a fairly small amount of money could replace the Feat (a very precious resource), so why ever bother with the Feat? The extra effect, though, is that there is one less Feat a Wizard/Sorcerer needs, and THAT is really where the disparity plays out - Wizard and Sorcerers won't need to invest in MM Feats, so that clears the way to invest in something else. </p>
<p>Similarly, I run a comparatively low-magic campaign. The general guidelines I've given my players is "If it's over +1 or about 3000 gp, you have to either find it or build it yourself". To this, my Wizard player immediately asked "Will we have enough downtime to build", which I guaranteed there would be between adventures (and I think this is fair). To this, he invested in a few Crafting Feats and some specific spells that he'd want to use to build things...</p>
<p>... notice a pattern here? Resources that otherwise would go to other things are now having to be redistributed, because you can't just "buy your way" out of it. </p>
<p>I've actually seriously considered similarly lowering the availability of any magic item that can't easily be used by pure martials, including Wands. Why? In character, there are CONSIDERABLY fewer people that can use them, so it makes sense for a spell crafter looking to make money to make things that can be used by the most people, and there are a lot more Fighters than Sorcerers in my campaign. In general, if you can go "Why would you take <X>? You can just buy <Y item>", then I'm thinking <Y Item> needs to be something that you can build. </p>
<p>So I'd like some thoughts? How much is the disparity between Martials and Casters something that becomes "baked in" due to the items being available?</p>
<p>Quick side note on one of the more powerful spell options in my paradigm:</p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>Hey guys,
Let's get this out of the way first - Casters are more powerful than Martials because Magic. There is no way around it; you are moving lines in the sand, but not changing anything.
So with that as the context (and the acceptance that trying to completely get rid of it is a fools' errand), does having a wide selection of magic items available increase or decrease the martial/caster disparity?
In two recent campaigns I played in both GMs outlawed Metamagic Rods. When asked why,...JAMRenaissance2015-09-14T14:14:26ZRe: Forums: Advice: How to say no on a very high knowledge roll.JAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2sww5?How-to-say-no-on-a-very-high-knowledge-roll#292015-09-04T15:55:18Z2015-09-04T15:43:41Z<p>I think the point IS to cockblock the player, and that isn't necessarily a problem. I don't care what your Acrobatics check is, you can't use Acrobatics to Fly. Some things just AREN'T available.</p>
<p>With that said, I think this can be used to advance the plot. With a high check, I stress just how unusual it is that you DON'T know, and use that to shape the narrative. One of my players was an Inquisitor that specialized in interrogating people, but he came across a Rogue of equal level that had invested in lying (via Signature skills and the like). When he was unable to tell instantly if she was bluffing or not, I stressed that his roll was what let him know how strong of a personality he was dealing with, because 99% of the people out there would have been read easily by that roll. he'd learned about the foe through his inability to learn about the foe.</p>
<p>So this LACK of knowledge should be used to express the mystery of this artifact, and how unusual it is for the player to NOT know about it.</p>I think the point IS to cockblock the player, and that isn't necessarily a problem. I don't care what your Acrobatics check is, you can't use Acrobatics to Fly. Some things just AREN'T available.
With that said, I think this can be used to advance the plot. With a high check, I stress just how unusual it is that you DON'T know, and use that to shape the narrative. One of my players was an Inquisitor that specialized in interrogating people, but he came across a Rogue of equal level that had...JAMRenaissance2015-09-04T15:43:41ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why do Martials need better things?JAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2shnp&page=9?Why-do-Martials-need-better-things#4032015-08-15T00:22:11Z2015-07-28T15:12:43Z<p>How much of the disparity is also a function of environment/rules used?</p>
<p>In the game I run I use a custom world a friend created that was meant to be a "broken" world. It has, as examples, no halflings, no cats, and the dimensional bonds are weird, allowing for demons and devils that turn to crystal in sunlight to appear from portals in specific places. As a result, spells that summon extradimensional creatures don't work in this game, and teleportation/teleportation effects become... risky (i.e. a villain that teleported away from the heroes was pretty much written off as committing suicide; that is how large the potential failure for long-distance teleportation we are talking about dealing with). Summoners are a banned class in this world.</p>
<p>In hindsight, we looked back and realized that you drop the power of a mid-/high-level spellcaster CONSIDERABLY once you remove the extradimensionals (which basically means "no summoning most things that can cast a spell") and most teleportation beyond 20 feet or so (which would be the practical limit to how much risk you want to run with teleporting in an environment where there's any chance you could kill yourself). </p>
<p>We are also going to the Wound Levels system from Pathfinder Unchained. That spellcaster suddenly becomes a LOT more squishy once they lose a caster level for dropping to 75% health (which there is a 50/50 shot off for every full spellcaster). As an aside, it does make combat a heckuvalot more explosive, because it encourages a "Smoke If Ya Got 'Em" mentality; next round, you may not be able to cast the Fireball spell if you take another hit. </p>
<p>Finally, I started another thread in the advice section about removing prepared spellcasters from the game totally (it's my thing; I love the mechanic, but the fluff of the idea of a high-level wizard forgetting how to cast a spell they cast five minutes ago annoys me too much). The observation that occurred from that is that you reduce a spread of around six tiers to only four, one tier of which (the highest) would only have two classes - Sorcerer and Oracle. Your disparity drops considerably more in that scenario as well.</p>
<p>I guess my point here is, unless you're playing PFS, you're playing a make-up game where you get to create the rules. I think the rules can be manipulated to achieve whatever effect is desired.</p>
<p>If you're PFS though... ;)</p>How much of the disparity is also a function of environment/rules used?
In the game I run I use a custom world a friend created that was meant to be a "broken" world. It has, as examples, no halflings, no cats, and the dimensional bonds are weird, allowing for demons and devils that turn to crystal in sunlight to appear from portals in specific places. As a result, spells that summon extradimensional creatures don't work in this game, and teleportation/teleportation effects become... risky...JAMRenaissance2015-07-28T15:12:43ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why is there no "Extra Ki Power"?JAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2sirz?Why-is-there-no-Extra-Ki-Power#42018-12-17T03:37:39Z2015-07-21T18:40:23Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">p-sto wrote:</div><blockquote><p> There's also the added complication that ninjas get the exact same class feature but draw from a completely different list of ki powers. Allowing extra ki powers as a feat would mean that ninjas and monks can dip into each other's ki powers unless the make the wording of the feat very specific.</p>
<p>Not that it's much of a loss for monks anyway. There are so few ki powers worth taking that most monks I've seen end up taking close to identical choices for their ki powers and I haven't seen anything in Unchained that would impact these choices. </blockquote><p>Technically those are Ninja Tricks. Which, also technically, you can invest a Feat to get (Buying Extra Rogue Talent, and picking Extra Ninja Trick as that Rogue Talent).
<p>I don't think the Monk class can really afford even a "much of a loss" at this point...</p>p-sto wrote:There's also the added complication that ninjas get the exact same class feature but draw from a completely different list of ki powers. Allowing extra ki powers as a feat would mean that ninjas and monks can dip into each other's ki powers unless the make the wording of the feat very specific.
Not that it's much of a loss for monks anyway. There are so few ki powers worth taking that most monks I've seen end up taking close to identical choices for their ki powers and I haven't...JAMRenaissance2015-07-21T18:40:23ZRe: Forums: Class Discussion: Brawler DiscussionJAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qdj7&page=5?Brawler-Discussion#2092013-11-21T01:20:22Z2013-11-20T18:08:38Z<p>In re: Martial Maneuvers: I'd like to second the thought this is a rare scenario where they may want to say what is NOT included rather than what IS included.</p>
<p>Specifically: "Any Combat Feat which does NOT have Point Blank Shot, Mounted Combat, or Armor Training as a prerequisite".</p>In re: Martial Maneuvers: I'd like to second the thought this is a rare scenario where they may want to say what is NOT included rather than what IS included.
Specifically: "Any Combat Feat which does NOT have Point Blank Shot, Mounted Combat, or Armor Training as a prerequisite".JAMRenaissance2013-11-20T18:08:38ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: How Many People Are Legitimately Running These "Social Incompetent" Builds Real World?JAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qadq&page=8?How-Many-People-Are-Legitimately-Running#3732013-10-26T02:44:07Z2013-10-26T01:53:44Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">redward wrote:</div><blockquote></p>
<p>No, I wouldn't include personal magnetism, for the reasons WRoy already detailed. As for appearance...</p>
<p>Consider a different group of individuals entering the bar in Montana77's anecdote. Only now Charismatic Carol is a Qlippoth-spawn Tiefling with 18 Charisma, and Mundane Molly is an Anglekin Aasimar with a mere 14 Charisma (still normal, according to Jiggy's commoner breakdown).</p>
<p>Charismatic Carol, as a Qlippoth-spawn, is "covered in barbed tentacles, oozing tumors, crudely shaped and stunted appendages, pieces of carapace, or other defects". Plain old Mundane Molly, on the other hand, "possess features with an unearthly charm, such as long, thick hair of a seemingly impossible hue, and limpid, jeweltoned eyes."</p>
<p>Who's getting all the free drinks in this situation?</p>
<p>Depends on the bar, I expect will be the response. And sure, but unless you have a party of all humans going to an all-human bar, you're immediately comparing apples to oranges with oozing tumors. It's all subjective.</p>
<p>I just don't think "you apply your character's Charisma modifier to checks that represent attempts to influence others" gives you the all-encompassing mandate that you seem to think it does. </blockquote><p>There is a saying: "Something is the exception that proves the rule". Charisma governs appearance. The fact that you have to say "Well, what about these specific circumstances..." says that this is the norm and the specific circumstances are just those - specific circumstances, not the norm. I think the fact that there are scenarios like this may be why the rule isn't more tightly "hardcoded".
<p>With that said, let's remember that the context of this are people running "socially incompetent" builds. It sounds like the desire is to absolutely minimize the effect of a low Charisma by subsidizing it with high Diplomacy/Bluff/Intimidate (more the former than the latter). I don't think a build like that is intrinsically problematic - I'd call Tyrion Lannister from Game Of Thrones a comparatively low-Charisma but insanely high Diplomacy/Bluff/Intimidate character. However, let's not try to pretend he isn't considered functionally deformed by his society's standards and doesn't have a huge gash across his face while we talk about what happens when he walks into a bar.</p>redward wrote:No, I wouldn't include personal magnetism, for the reasons WRoy already detailed. As for appearance...
Consider a different group of individuals entering the bar in Montana77's anecdote. Only now Charismatic Carol is a Qlippoth-spawn Tiefling with 18 Charisma, and Mundane Molly is an Anglekin Aasimar with a mere 14 Charisma (still normal, according to Jiggy's commoner breakdown).
Charismatic Carol, as a Qlippoth-spawn, is "covered in barbed tentacles, oozing tumors, crudely...JAMRenaissance2013-10-26T01:53:44ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: MonksJAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q9j4&page=7?Monks#3292013-10-23T01:59:06Z2013-10-22T21:47:29Z<p>In JustinRocket's defense, by disallowing certain archetypes it sounds like you're saying "Monks suck unless you're a Monk".</p>
<p>If you're going to allow the non-Core stuff, you have to allow the non-Core stuff...</p>In JustinRocket's defense, by disallowing certain archetypes it sounds like you're saying "Monks suck unless you're a Monk".
If you're going to allow the non-Core stuff, you have to allow the non-Core stuff...JAMRenaissance2013-10-22T21:47:29ZRe: Forums: Advice: Playing Arrogant without being Evil or a JerkJAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q71n?Playing-Arrogant-without-being-Evil-or-a-Jerk#272013-09-24T19:24:45Z2013-09-24T18:36:37Z<p>Thor in the first movie pretty much up until he sacrifices himself against The Destroyer. </p>
<p>"Why shouldn't I fight through these hoards and hoards of Frost Giants? I'm WINNING!"</p>Thor in the first movie pretty much up until he sacrifices himself against The Destroyer.
"Why shouldn't I fight through these hoards and hoards of Frost Giants? I'm WINNING!"JAMRenaissance2013-09-24T18:36:37ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Getting tired of chaotic characters?JAMRenaissancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q5jk?Getting-tired-of-chaotic-characters#292013-09-12T21:22:55Z2013-09-12T13:46:01Z<p>Perhaps part of the difficulty is that the group of chaotic characters is being allowed to succeed in an unrealistic manner. In real life, it is difficult for a group of chaotic people to succeed at their tasks because there is little incentive to work together.</p>
<p>So, when the one player wants to wander off by themselves, they meet up with the entire opposition. When the players want to argue loudly in the dungeon, have the baddies not detect and attack them, but actually prep for them and trap them. </p>
<p>This isn't meant to be directly punitive, but to actually display the reason WHY this is a good idea. Chaos may be fun, but it very often does not lead to the job being done. Failure will do a good job in curbing the amount of wacky hijinks that ensue.</p>Perhaps part of the difficulty is that the group of chaotic characters is being allowed to succeed in an unrealistic manner. In real life, it is difficult for a group of chaotic people to succeed at their tasks because there is little incentive to work together.
So, when the one player wants to wander off by themselves, they meet up with the entire opposition. When the players want to argue loudly in the dungeon, have the baddies not detect and attack them, but actually prep for them and...JAMRenaissance2013-09-12T13:46:01Z