paizo.com Favorited Posts by Gevaudanpaizo.com Favorited Posts by Gevaudan2016-07-25T19:36:30Z2016-07-25T19:36:30ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Tiers?Gevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tsvp?Tiers#272016-08-11T05:09:35Z2016-07-26T16:53:37Z<p>Power differentials encoded in rules are a major component of RPG play. The tiers help people understand the basic reach of their character mechanically. They are particularly important when playing a weaker class, because players recognize they're under-performing, long before the understand why.</p>
<p>I don't expect the tiers to dictate what I play, just help inform it in relationship to what other players bright to the table.</p>Power differentials encoded in rules are a major component of RPG play. The tiers help people understand the basic reach of their character mechanically. They are particularly important when playing a weaker class, because players recognize they're under-performing, long before the understand why.
I don't expect the tiers to dictate what I play, just help inform it in relationship to what other players bright to the table.Gevaudan2016-07-26T16:53:37ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Tiers?Gevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tsvp?Tiers#192016-08-27T00:53:44Z2016-07-25T14:16:54Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Paradozen wrote:</div><blockquote> <a href="http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tqfl&page=7?Why-is-the-Cleric-a-Tier-One-Class#343" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">This</a> is possibly the best description of tier one. •• spoiler omitted ••</blockquote>... </blockquote><p>ZOMG! I got quoted across threads! This may be my finest forum achievement! Woot!Paradozen wrote:This is possibly the best description of tier one. ** spoiler omitted **
... ZOMG! I got quoted across threads! This may be my finest forum achievement! Woot!Gevaudan2016-07-25T14:16:54ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why is the Cleric a Tier One Class?Gevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tqfl&page=7?Why-is-the-Cleric-a-Tier-One-Class#3432019-10-13T08:16:58Z2016-06-23T19:04:58Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Sissyl wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Gevaudan wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Sissyl,</p>
<p>I think I get where you're coming from. It seems like you're saying:</p>
<p>1.) Arcane spells have more and more deadly combat options, so you can more easily spank monsters as a high DC wizard.
<br />
2.) Arcane spells have more "universal" encounter winners (invisibility, fly, haste, etc.) so it's easier to have a better option prepared by chance.
<br />
3.) Clerics don't get the class feature feats of wizards, fighters and barbarians, so their feats are much rarer and they get to feat in less directions.
<br />
4.) Clerics were stronger in 3.5.</p>
<p>How am I doing?</p>
<p></blockquote>Brilliantly. Thank you. </blockquote><p>Gotcha. My claim would be that the vanilla cleric is still tier 1, but it is the bottom of tier 1, whereas it used to be the arguably strongest class in the game. It's not tier 2, because it is still world ending AND very flexible. It loses ground to wizards, who honestly got better and new classes like the Master Summoner. I'd look at it this way:
<p>There are 3 filters to gain entry to tier 1.</p>
<p>Filter #1:</p>
<p>We are creating a vacuum in which we evaluate only class skills, features and 20 point buy stats; no race, no general level feats or general level bonuses, no money, no equipment. All class features are from the base class only. We'll level the PC's in question to level 10, so we can look at class features.</p>
<p>The we make a bunch of challenges:
<br />
1.) fly over or bypass a lake of lava with no rim
<br />
2.) go unseen through a crowded plaza in broad daylight
<br />
3.) defeat a CR 10 monster in combat (yes this is not APL for a single 10th level PC)
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4.) defeat a lethal trap
<br />
5.) Deduce a series of skill based binary answers
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6.) detect several hidden things
<br />
7.) detect several magically hidden things
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8.) defeat a horde of minions
<br />
9.) cure or avoid 10 random inflictions of CR -2 to +2, delivered 1 per minute.
<br />
10.) heal or negate 100 points of hp damage dealt 1 a round for 100 rounds. the damage is untyped.
<br />
11.) Travel across 100 miles in 8 hours.</p>
<p>Then we ask the question: Who can do all 11 at 10th level with just their class skills, stats and abilities. Then we ask who can do all of them without foreknowledge and in 2 days. Finally in 1 day and the encounters are random.</p>
<p>Finally, we ask if you can do 5 of the 10 better than the class designed to do the thing without magic.</p>
<p>You are a well built tier 1 or the best classes in the game if you can blindly, randomly bypass these challenges back to back.</p>
<p>You are tier 1 if you can do all 10 in 2 days without foreknowledge and you did 5 out of 10 better than the specialized class (or are the specialized class).</p>
<p>You are tier 2 if you can do all 10 with foreknowledge and 5 out of 10 better than the specialized class.</p>
<p>Initial thoughts:</p>
<p>remember, no gear, no feats, no race.</p>
<p>All non-casters fall away immediately. Their class abilities cannot bypass several of these challenges. They can't do all 10. This is the bulk of playable classes.</p>
<p>All of the full casters can qualify for tier 2 immediately. Several of the partial casters will pass as well.</p>
<p>There's actually a good chance the full spontaneous casters and the memorized casters will qualify for tier 1. I can think of common designs for several classes that would get the job done. Unless their spells are weird, the cleric has this locked up. Some partial casters will make it.</p>
<p>Filter 2:</p>
<p>one question: can your default class abilities break the game system wide open? If yes, tier 1 or 2. If no, tier 3. Clerics have miracle. That's all you need to wish engine (they have other stuff as well earlier. planar ally is a great example). this step filters out most of the partial casters. they can kick ass in reasonable challenges all day long, but they cannot break the game.</p>
<p>Filter 3:</p>
<p>Can you, without changing your character sheet, but with time, now duplicate 8 out of every 10 other ways other classes can break the game?</p>
<p>Clerics can absolutely copy almost every way to break the game. This step filters out most of the spontaneous casters, because their spell selections are locked.</p>
<p>If yes, tier 1. If no, tier 2.</p>
<p>The interesting discussion is weird classes like the Master Summoner, who uses depth of action economy and a ridiculous amount of maximum level SLA's to try to brute force the gap between tier 2 and tier 1.</p>Sissyl wrote:Gevaudan wrote:Sissyl,
I think I get where you're coming from. It seems like you're saying:
1.) Arcane spells have more and more deadly combat options, so you can more easily spank monsters as a high DC wizard.
2.) Arcane spells have more "universal" encounter winners (invisibility, fly, haste, etc.) so it's easier to have a better option prepared by chance.
3.) Clerics don't get the class feature feats of wizards, fighters and barbarians, so their feats are much rarer and they...Gevaudan2016-06-23T19:04:58ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why is the Cleric a Tier One Class?Gevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tqfl&page=7?Why-is-the-Cleric-a-Tier-One-Class#3352016-06-24T06:48:24Z2016-06-23T17:58:18Z<p>Sissyl,</p>
<p>I think I get where you're coming from. It seems like you're saying:</p>
<p>1.) Arcane spells have more and more deadly combat options, so you can more easily spank monsters as a high DC wizard.
<br />
2.) Arcane spells have more "universal" encounter winners (invisibility, fly, haste, etc.) so it's easier to have a better option prepared by chance.
<br />
3.) Clerics don't get the class feature feats of wizards, fighters and barbarians, so their feats are much rarer and they get to feat in less directions.
<br />
4.) Clerics were stronger in 3.5.</p>
<p>How am I doing?</p>Sissyl,
I think I get where you're coming from. It seems like you're saying:
1.) Arcane spells have more and more deadly combat options, so you can more easily spank monsters as a high DC wizard.
2.) Arcane spells have more "universal" encounter winners (invisibility, fly, haste, etc.) so it's easier to have a better option prepared by chance.
3.) Clerics don't get the class feature feats of wizards, fighters and barbarians, so their feats are much rarer and they get to feat in less...Gevaudan2016-06-23T17:58:18ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Pseudostatistical analysis of martial-caster disparityGevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tqa4&page=3?Pseudostatistical-analysis-of-martialcaster#1322016-06-20T12:10:52Z2016-06-16T21:33:44Z<p>I want to add to the discussion that the MC/D is absolutely measurable if we want to create an extensive data collecting tool and run it a ton of times.</p>
<p>Back in 4th edition, they did this with special challenge dungeons that they released to gaming stores with prizes. The dungeons had carefully designed diverse paths and were played on a strict timer. Team comps, timing and performance could be measured to some success.</p>
<p>An easier example is online gaming. League of Legends has tons of data collection going on across millions of games, characters and abilties. they also have role based play, but strive a lot less for social, random and rp, as well as a lot more for mechanical tiers and balance.</p>
<p>The challenge here is specificity of comparisons to evaluate, density of data to mine and ability to give scenarios to get feedback.</p>
<p>RPG's are both mechanical games with balance issues</p>
<p>AND</p>
<p>Social experiences where balance issues can both help and hinder the experience.</p>I want to add to the discussion that the MC/D is absolutely measurable if we want to create an extensive data collecting tool and run it a ton of times.
Back in 4th edition, they did this with special challenge dungeons that they released to gaming stores with prizes. The dungeons had carefully designed diverse paths and were played on a strict timer. Team comps, timing and performance could be measured to some success.
An easier example is online gaming. League of Legends has tons of data...Gevaudan2016-06-16T21:33:44ZRe: Forums: Advice: I need music for the Bard!Gevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tpnz?I-need-music-for-the-Bard#72016-06-08T18:58:05Z2016-06-08T18:57:34Z<p>Look at musicals with minor word alterations. musicals are designed to be quickly quotable with short syllable words.</p>
<p>e.g.</p>
<p>"Jellicle Cats" into Heroish acts = inspire courage.</p>Look at musicals with minor word alterations. musicals are designed to be quickly quotable with short syllable words.
e.g.
"Jellicle Cats" into Heroish acts = inspire courage.Gevaudan2016-06-08T18:57:34ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Brown Mold vs. The Volcano - Delving into Fantasy PhysicsGevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tp9r?Brown-Mold-vs-The-Volcano-Delving-into#242016-06-06T05:01:05Z2016-06-03T20:08:53Z<p>I think the mold would incinerate, but here are a few thoughts if not or even if:</p>
<p>Case 1, the boat:
<br />
Hmmmmm....I do not think it would form a traditional boat, as the lava lip formed would be hemispherical. Somewhere near the top of the sphere, there's be a hole as it bobbed along.</p>
<p>Case 2, the lava burns the mold when it expands toward the lava, but that burning fuels expansion above the burn:</p>
<p>I say this breaks down into "burns organic matter" levels of heat which we will call "fire" and "So hot it even burns the mold" levels of heat which we will call "plasma". Basically molten rock is MUCH hotter than molten halfling.</p>
<p>At some point in it's decent into the giant lava pit, the mold is going to cross the radiation boundary at which point "fire" happens to the edge of the mold and it doubles in size, fueled by it's own burning. This point is past the basic "fire" point, because the mold chills around it and there will be a soaking of energy as the mold travels through the "fire" gradient into the "plasma" gradient.</p>
<p>If the mold expands in all directions and anything that expands down burns again, you would effectively cap the fire/plasma with the mold, as it feeds itself on it's own fire.</p>
<p>It get's weirder. Convection currents would churn up the cap, forcing it to break up, float up and then back down, filling the chamber above the lava. This cycle would continue until the chamber was full of mold above the plasma line.</p>
<p>Sadly, the currents would start to build up pressure. Pressure is heat effectively, so the dense mass of mold would begin raise in temperature, even as it chilled. Eventually, this would raise the effective "plasma" layer's height, eventually burning out all of the mold in many cycles.</p>
<p>But...if there was even a single passage out of the cavern, this would give a pressure valve and the mold would march out of the cavern wave after wave.</p>I think the mold would incinerate, but here are a few thoughts if not or even if:
Case 1, the boat:
Hmmmmm....I do not think it would form a traditional boat, as the lava lip formed would be hemispherical. Somewhere near the top of the sphere, there's be a hole as it bobbed along.
Case 2, the lava burns the mold when it expands toward the lava, but that burning fuels expansion above the burn:
I say this breaks down into "burns organic matter" levels of heat which we will call "fire" and...Gevaudan2016-06-03T20:08:53ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Crocodile attack seems low. Anyone know why?Gevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2togw?Crocodile-attack-seems-low-Anyone-know-why#42016-05-23T16:24:48Z2016-05-23T15:25:47Z<p>skizzerz, you are correct and have selected a fine and handsome portrait.</p>skizzerz, you are correct and have selected a fine and handsome portrait.Gevaudan2016-05-23T15:25:47ZRe: Forums/Gamer Life: General Discussion: The Makings of a Great GMGevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tkn0?The-Makings-of-a-Great-GM#92016-05-16T21:29:43Z2016-05-16T19:10:40Z<p>1.) good communication skills.
<br />
2.) quick witted.
<br />
3.) builds trust easily with players.
<br />
4.) entertaining or creative or both.</p>1.) good communication skills.
2.) quick witted.
3.) builds trust easily with players.
4.) entertaining or creative or both.Gevaudan2016-05-16T19:10:40ZRe: Forums/Gamer Life: General Discussion: GM Shortage?Gevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tny2?GM-Shortage#102016-05-31T09:35:36Z2016-05-16T17:44:45Z<p>There will always be a shortage of GM's compared to players. RPG's focus on crafting a memorable PC experience, not a memorable DM experience. DM memories are made, for sure, but the anecdotes usually start, "I had this player who..." while player anecdotes start, "Do you remember when we...".</p>
<p>RPG's are stories with adventures for PC players, put on by a host, the DM.</p>
<p>DM's have vastly more responsibility at the table for the world, it's contents and characters and the player's experience.</p>
<p>DM's have to be both the best NPC friend and worst NPC enemy of the players. It can generate hard feelings between the two groups, even when the DM isn't trying to be gygaxian.</p>
<p>Players often assume the DM as leader is responsible for hosting, feeding, entertaining and counseling the players.</p>
<p>DM'ing is a energy loss activity wherein you give of yourself to others.</p>
<p>These things aren't bad. It's what I love about DM'ing. However, you can play an RPG with much much less effort. Thus, less people DM.</p>
<p>As for Roll20 and conventions, I have DM'ed for many years, but will not likely ever do either, outside of intro adventures. My rule for RPG's is that I only play and especially only DM for people I'm irl friends with. This keeps me a lot emotionally healthier.</p>
<p>I suspect other DM's feel like I do, which further decreases the available DM's for public resources.</p>There will always be a shortage of GM's compared to players. RPG's focus on crafting a memorable PC experience, not a memorable DM experience. DM memories are made, for sure, but the anecdotes usually start, "I had this player who..." while player anecdotes start, "Do you remember when we...".
RPG's are stories with adventures for PC players, put on by a host, the DM.
DM's have vastly more responsibility at the table for the world, it's contents and characters and the player's experience.
...Gevaudan2016-05-16T17:44:45ZRe: Forums: Advice: Any reason to make an arcane necromancer instead of a divine one?Gevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tlgj?Any-reason-to-make-an-arcane-necromancer#302016-05-06T19:17:38Z2016-05-06T18:35:29Z<p>This screams NPC leadership feat chaining. Why not have a wizard with a cleric who has a witch?</p>This screams NPC leadership feat chaining. Why not have a wizard with a cleric who has a witch?Gevaudan2016-05-06T18:35:29ZRe: Forums: Advice: How do I stay in character?Gevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tmbr?How-do-I-stay-in-character#212016-05-05T04:23:23Z2016-05-03T19:15:44Z<p>I would suggest approaching one of the other players and asking them to build a team backstory with you. This could be a series of funny events from recently, all the way to 200 years of companionship (for a pair of elves).</p>
<p>I find staying in character is a lot easier with another player helping to hold me accountable/share in the fun.</p>
<p>If it's a strict roleplaying environment; I will make a list of IF/THEN statements for my character, like "If I see a child struck by an adult, I do everything in my power to intervene."</p>
<p>In addition, RPGs are system games and roleplaying situations, so it's not always bad to meta-game. In the middle of a dungeon, PC's themselves are meta-gaming, but they call it survival.</p>I would suggest approaching one of the other players and asking them to build a team backstory with you. This could be a series of funny events from recently, all the way to 200 years of companionship (for a pair of elves).
I find staying in character is a lot easier with another player helping to hold me accountable/share in the fun.
If it's a strict roleplaying environment; I will make a list of IF/THEN statements for my character, like "If I see a child struck by an adult, I do...Gevaudan2016-05-03T19:15:44ZRe: Forums: Advice: Most versatile and powerful character Level 4-7Gevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tmpr?Most-versatile-and-powerful-character-Level-47#42016-04-29T21:44:11Z2016-04-29T17:54:54Z<p>Menhir Savant Druid is very good. Master Summoner is very good. A hangover/evangelist cleric is good and great for parties.</p>
<p>With a couple of carefully chosen traits, a vanilla, urban or invulnerable rager barbarian would be a powerful choice.</p>
<p>Ranged Paladins are strong at that level set.</p>
<p>I'd say that with select traits and races:
<br />
1.) The druid can do the most stuff.
<br />
2.) The master summoner would control opponents and environments the most.
<br />
3.) The barbarian is the most straightforward.
<br />
4.) The paladin, depending on race, could be immune to nearly everything but damage and falling.</p>Menhir Savant Druid is very good. Master Summoner is very good. A hangover/evangelist cleric is good and great for parties.
With a couple of carefully chosen traits, a vanilla, urban or invulnerable rager barbarian would be a powerful choice.
Ranged Paladins are strong at that level set.
I'd say that with select traits and races:
1.) The druid can do the most stuff.
2.) The master summoner would control opponents and environments the most.
3.) The barbarian is the most straightforward.
4.)...Gevaudan2016-04-29T17:54:54ZRe: Forums: Advice: How does one kill a dragon, if the dragon has antimagic field?Gevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tli2?How-does-one-kill-a-dragon-if-the-dragon-has#402016-04-17T09:40:32Z2016-04-14T14:34:44Z<p>So this is a great meta-question, because nerfing the use of magic is a major wrench for nearly all Pathfinder parties.</p>
<p>It's also a really fun way to make a tank PC or NPC or dragon NPC suddenly SUPER relevant. Try this with your favorite party barbarian against the BBEG wizard/cleric/druid. </p>
<p>With your party comp the way it was, with no warning and no prep, you were pretty screwed if you goal was "win" and very unlikely to meet the goal of "no body dies" with a bunch of undead bumming around in the sunlight.</p>
<p>The reality is, in you specific situation, the optimum choice was absolutely, "run away, sacrificing whoever you need to to get most of the party away." With a party your level, that's actually translated as, "Get away and sacrifice whoever is easiest to raise/unraise."</p>
<p>The vampire needed to gaseous form into a crevasse somewhere and hide.</p>
<p>Saying "the rules don't let a dragon get fully surrounded by the AMS" isn't really relevant in most home games where the DM is going to handwave and make a giant AMS.</p>
<p>To beat a little tarrasque with no regen, which is essentially what you have here, you need to:</p>
<p>1.) Stop it from doing what it does best: base a PC and multi attack. This is done by stepping away and making it go in multiple directions. unless it has combat reflexes, you take a hit on the charge and a hit on the fall back, instead of 5 hits a round.</p>
<p>2.) Deal any damage to it possible from range.</p>
<p>3.) move your harassing circle of PC's so that when the focus of it's love falls back, they can get heals before they get charged and AMS'ed again.</p>
<p>4.) Keep in mind that it's simply a tough opponent and it'd probably be easier to flee and come back with counters to AMS.</p>So this is a great meta-question, because nerfing the use of magic is a major wrench for nearly all Pathfinder parties.
It's also a really fun way to make a tank PC or NPC or dragon NPC suddenly SUPER relevant. Try this with your favorite party barbarian against the BBEG wizard/cleric/druid.
With your party comp the way it was, with no warning and no prep, you were pretty screwed if you goal was "win" and very unlikely to meet the goal of "no body dies" with a bunch of undead bumming around...Gevaudan2016-04-14T14:34:44ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Invasion of the mimicsGevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tkg7?Invasion-of-the-mimics#42016-04-08T18:05:33Z2016-04-06T20:46:55Z<p>It's a really neat set piece, but I'm not at all sure how to make it a playable encounter. That's a ton of monsters that would not normally gather en mass to just occupy a town.</p>
<p>May try doing it with a lonely inn instead, so you have a CR manageable amount of enemies.</p>
<p>In addition, changelings are a sentient PC/NPC race with normal intelligence. They wouldn't sweep roads or eat plates. They would clean and eat as normal humanoids. Better to use some kind of mutated lab experiments that were awakened and don't know what humanoids actually do.</p>
<p>In addition, add murdered husks of the previous occupants in places to be discovered.</p>
<p>There's a common 3.5 module I played back in the day that does this whole bit for like levels 7-10. It ends with the PC's cleansing the town.</p>It's a really neat set piece, but I'm not at all sure how to make it a playable encounter. That's a ton of monsters that would not normally gather en mass to just occupy a town.
May try doing it with a lonely inn instead, so you have a CR manageable amount of enemies.
In addition, changelings are a sentient PC/NPC race with normal intelligence. They wouldn't sweep roads or eat plates. They would clean and eat as normal humanoids. Better to use some kind of mutated lab experiments that were...Gevaudan2016-04-06T20:46:55ZRe: Forums: Advice: DM Advice: Building Fun MazesGevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tk7o?DM-Advice-Building-Fun-Mazes#182016-03-30T15:48:27Z2016-03-30T14:57:31Z<p>Let the players solve some of the mazes with a skill challenge, instead of a literal mapped maze. 4e does this really well and the change of pace is nice.</p>
<p>Essentially, the players roll certain appropriate skills to gain successes in finding their way through the maze. Enough successes before enough failures means success. Enough failures has a consequence, like a vicious combat encounter. Perfect or near perfect success can yield a hidden treasure room.</p>Let the players solve some of the mazes with a skill challenge, instead of a literal mapped maze. 4e does this really well and the change of pace is nice.
Essentially, the players roll certain appropriate skills to gain successes in finding their way through the maze. Enough successes before enough failures means success. Enough failures has a consequence, like a vicious combat encounter. Perfect or near perfect success can yield a hidden treasure room.Gevaudan2016-03-30T14:57:31ZRe: Forums: Advice: GM Advice: Gaming with girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse?Gevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2th83?GM-Advice-Gaming-with-girlfriendboyfriendspouse#252016-02-26T18:16:29Z2016-02-26T15:23:22Z<p>As a player and as a DM, you are in a meaningful relationship with everyone at the table, just by being at the table. Be caring and respectful to everyone. Don't be a jerk.</p>
<p>When I was a teen, I could not imagine a DM not favoring their dating partner; dating partners were much rarer than DND buddies.</p>
<p>As an adult, I've not had any problems DM'ing my life partners or playing with them as PC's together. Like all intense things, just process with your partners afterwards.</p>
<p>One of my partners prefers to run very aggressive barbarians with emotionally heavy relationships to NPC's. In a 4.5 year campaign, that barbarian died multiple times and the NPC loved ones (mischievous gnome children) were an obvious and utilized set of targets.</p>
<p>If you're DM'ing a jerk NPC, clearly differentiate their character from your normal voice and mannerisms.</p>As a player and as a DM, you are in a meaningful relationship with everyone at the table, just by being at the table. Be caring and respectful to everyone. Don't be a jerk.
When I was a teen, I could not imagine a DM not favoring their dating partner; dating partners were much rarer than DND buddies.
As an adult, I've not had any problems DM'ing my life partners or playing with them as PC's together. Like all intense things, just process with your partners afterwards.
One of my partners...Gevaudan2016-02-26T15:23:22ZRe: Forums: Advice: What has the most horror potential in pathfinder?Gevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ta96?What-has-the-most-horror-potential-in-pathfinder#192016-02-13T05:36:09Z2016-01-29T21:33:26Z<p>In general:</p>
<p>1.) little safe ground to stand on. Swampy terrain is unsettling.
<br />
2.) Bad environmental effects. Total freezing cold is unsettling.
<br />
3.) Monsters that cannot be dealt with diplomatically. Oozes, undead, etc. are very creepy.
<br />
4.) Darkness in concert with doors slamming shut.
<br />
5.) unaccounted for old gore.</p>In general:
1.) little safe ground to stand on. Swampy terrain is unsettling.
2.) Bad environmental effects. Total freezing cold is unsettling.
3.) Monsters that cannot be dealt with diplomatically. Oozes, undead, etc. are very creepy.
4.) Darkness in concert with doors slamming shut.
5.) unaccounted for old gore.Gevaudan2016-01-29T21:33:26ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Thought Experiment: No more 9th level casters.Gevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2sxsd?Thought-Experiment-No-more-9th-level-casters#212015-09-16T19:51:47Z2015-09-15T21:38:20Z<p>If you're removing 9th level casters, also remove the summoner class. they're not really a 6th level class as their entire spell list and summon ability is 1st-9th level in power as they just skip some spell levels. They Gate.</p>If you're removing 9th level casters, also remove the summoner class. they're not really a 6th level class as their entire spell list and summon ability is 1st-9th level in power as they just skip some spell levels. They Gate.Gevaudan2015-09-15T21:38:20ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Low Level Adventure DesignGevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2sv7q&page=2?Low-Level-Adventure-Design#522015-08-30T02:46:12Z2015-08-26T21:02:37Z<p>@ Jeff,</p>
<p>I totally agree: you generally have to take melee hits. Don't take my Rappan Athuk methodology as a Pathfinder general strategy. In general, the more deadly a target is at what it does, the less you can let it do that thing to you.</p>
<p>@ Head,</p>
<p>DM'ing by minimizing the "rocket tag" aspect is a totally legitimate way to DM. Dm'ing by mathematically constructing encounters to spread damage against PC's out is a totally legitimate way to DM.</p>
<p>The system, as designed, encourages burst play.</p>
<p>The players should dictate what level of burst they want to face and the DM should provide it.</p>
<p>As long as RPGs have had crits, the crits have favored the monster side, because there are only x PC's and infinite monsters over time. Sooner or later, a crit will kill a PC.</p>
<p>My friends have always called this the Kolbold Principle: Enough kobolds throwing enough stones will crit down even the toughest fighter.</p>@ Jeff,
I totally agree: you generally have to take melee hits. Don't take my Rappan Athuk methodology as a Pathfinder general strategy. In general, the more deadly a target is at what it does, the less you can let it do that thing to you.
@ Head,
DM'ing by minimizing the "rocket tag" aspect is a totally legitimate way to DM. Dm'ing by mathematically constructing encounters to spread damage against PC's out is a totally legitimate way to DM.
The system, as designed, encourages burst
...Gevaudan2015-08-26T21:02:37ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Low Level Adventure DesignGevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2sv7q?Low-Level-Adventure-Design#472015-08-30T02:42:39Z2015-08-26T20:34:40Z<p>Jeff,</p>
<p>I wholly agree that in a melee slugfest, the squishies are going to take a pounding from the bruisers.</p>
<p>In the above example a party was on a tight little boat with a higher then them level threat, who using his superior CMB, knocked a party bruiser off the boat, then used a +3 effective weapon (18,000gp) to slaughter a bunch of squishies and a bruiser, the exact method of which happened to be flashy criticals over a few rounds.</p>
<p>It may not be a TPK, but it is a scenario badly balanced against a party of individually weaker PC's. A DM could do it faster and worse with less gold value: 3x1500gp 10HD necklace of fireball beads on 3 crappy npcs would simply blank the party in 1 round.</p>
<p>The meta question is: should low level characters face 1-shot kill effects commonly, particularly in the form of some of the better weapons in the game?</p>
<p>My answer is: yes, as long as the DM is teaching them before they get 1-shot what it is that can 1-shot them and why.</p>
<p>Because there are assigned checks for magic/planes/nature, people check those things often before and in combat. Weapons don't have an assigned check, because it's assumed that a martial proficiency character can identify any weapon.</p>
<p>This creates a disconnect between the player, who might not realize that the dude on the raft is wielding a weapon that is prone to 1HKO, and the PC, who knows immediately and if they were actually in control, would be much more careful or act more desperately.</p>
<p>Solving that disconnect is paramount for the player and DM.</p>Jeff,
I wholly agree that in a melee slugfest, the squishies are going to take a pounding from the bruisers.
In the above example a party was on a tight little boat with a higher then them level threat, who using his superior CMB, knocked a party bruiser off the boat, then used a +3 effective weapon (18,000gp) to slaughter a bunch of squishies and a bruiser, the exact method of which happened to be flashy criticals over a few rounds.
It may not be a TPK, but it is a scenario badly balanced...Gevaudan2015-08-26T20:34:40ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Low Level Adventure DesignGevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2sv7q?Low-Level-Adventure-Design#422015-08-30T02:27:04Z2015-08-26T18:51:21Z<p>This is a complex issue.</p>
<p>The general design of the 3.x series of games is "rocket tag", i.e. whoever hits first wins. This is a feature, not a bug. Other rpg games, like DND 4e, are all about slow tactical play where you have to team up to deliver kills.</p>
<p>The lower levels in PF are fraught with quick deaths because 1-2 hits can easily kill any enemy or player, excepting that one barbarian who put 18 on Con and that one monster you're not supposed to face behind the sealed off door.</p>
<p>Purchased materials do not have the liberty to carefully craft custom scenarios for each type of new player. Home games do.</p>
<p>My advice:</p>
<p>1.) Martial players should always know the specifics of any weapon they are facing; they are martial weapon experts. You should encourage players by naming specific weapons they are facing and telling martial proficiency characters what the weapon they are facing does. They don't need a skill check to know, they know all the weapons they know and can ID them by sight.</p>
<p>2.) Orcs are a particular monster that require a particular set of strategies. DM's should use different monsters to teach different lessons at low level and a martial PC should never have to ask or guess what kind of crit threat they face. ex. [Orc's are famous for being stupid, evil and cleaving opponents in half with single blows. History check DC 5: Wanthar the Orcwrecker prefered his bow "Melee Killer" when dealing with them.]</p>
<p>3.) The +1 keen falcata example above is very fringe. Did the players know it was a falcata? Did the pirate have a reputation of carving mighty warriors in half with single blows? One single dangerous melee only target is threatening only in melee.</p>
<p>If PC's are trapped in a tight box with a melee expert, they are all going to die. The intervention doesn't have to be nullifying the expert. You can also find creative opportunities to let the PC's know they might soon be locked in a box with a melee expert. Many low level spells change the face of this encounter quickly, like Grease on the falcata.</p>
<p>4.) It's o.k. to stage a campaign to let the PC's generally win. I ran a party for 4.5 years wherein most of the players only wanted enough challenge to scare them, vs. actually beating them. We all had a great time.</p>
<p>5.) It's o.k. to run a campaign where everyone is always nearly dying, if that's what the players want. I'm currently playing in Rappan Athuk, and our general rule is, "If it does melee, do not melee with it, because it will instantly kill you."</p>This is a complex issue.
The general design of the 3.x series of games is "rocket tag", i.e. whoever hits first wins. This is a feature, not a bug. Other rpg games, like DND 4e, are all about slow tactical play where you have to team up to deliver kills.
The lower levels in PF are fraught with quick deaths because 1-2 hits can easily kill any enemy or player, excepting that one barbarian who put 18 on Con and that one monster you're not supposed to face behind the sealed off door.
...Gevaudan2015-08-26T18:51:21ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Can a Paladin kill innocents for "their own good"?Gevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2stgy&page=3?Can-a-Paladin-kill-innocents-for-their-own-good#1132015-08-11T01:58:18Z2015-08-10T19:35:16Z<p>The metagame is the important part here. There is no world with gods, just a DM and players. What sort of story are you trying to tell? Do you players understand what you're doing? Are you railroading them?</p>
<p>You could make a brilliant narrative with either option in this case, but you shouldn't club your players with it.</p>
<p>Beyond that, an all powerful LG god wants to "bring home" tons of followers and his best idea is to order his paladins and clerics to stab them to death and burn them?</p>
<p>That's weaksauce.</p>
<p>Open a portal to the home plane and have them walk through it. They can live there mortal and die happily of old age and then live there immortal.</p>
<p>It's a LG god. It's not going to settle for a lame murderfest. Too many options for chaotic mistakes happening. To much chance for traumatic harm.</p>The metagame is the important part here. There is no world with gods, just a DM and players. What sort of story are you trying to tell? Do you players understand what you're doing? Are you railroading them?
You could make a brilliant narrative with either option in this case, but you shouldn't club your players with it.
Beyond that, an all powerful LG god wants to "bring home" tons of followers and his best idea is to order his paladins and clerics to stab them to death and burn them?
...Gevaudan2015-08-10T19:35:16ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: A 'good' evil person?Gevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2st6j&page=2?A-good-evil-person#612015-08-10T21:45:11Z2015-08-10T19:25:07Z<p>Pf is a storytelling game and as the DM you are the writer. You get to decide if this person slowly or abruptly changes alignment and then tell how it happened. Alignment shift is a mixture of beliefs and actions to support those beliefs. examples:</p>
<p>Sarah was terrified at the visit to the 9 Hells.</p>
<p>LG: She immediately went to the local clergy and confessed her crimes. She was sentenced to hard time and when she got out, she went to the temple and dedicated her life to helping others escape evil. At first she did so out of fear, but eventually out of gratitude for being allowed to serve.</p>
<p>NG: She realized the harm she had done and began secretly seeking out the families of the people she harmed. Once she met them and helped them, she found herself spending more and more time with them. Accepted as she had never been before, she sought to emulate the conditions that led to a life like theirs.</p>
<p>CG: She dedicated herself to ridding the world of bandits like her, becoming a scourge in the wilderness. Always cautious around civilization, she gathered to herself a merry band of like-minded folk and built a big tree fort.</p>Pf is a storytelling game and as the DM you are the writer. You get to decide if this person slowly or abruptly changes alignment and then tell how it happened. Alignment shift is a mixture of beliefs and actions to support those beliefs. examples:
Sarah was terrified at the visit to the 9 Hells.
LG: She immediately went to the local clergy and confessed her crimes. She was sentenced to hard time and when she got out, she went to the temple and dedicated her life to helping others escape...Gevaudan2015-08-10T19:25:07ZRe: Forums: Advice: Please help a PC wants to do something big.Gevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2stig?Please-help-a-PC-wants-to-do-something-big#72015-08-14T20:32:24Z2015-08-10T18:51:15Z<p>Human puppet has it. Set up a series of goals for the player and party that coincide with the actual adventures:</p>
<p>tl;dr Global structure:
<br />
A. get noble
<br />
B. get on banking concern board
<br />
C. get rid of rivals
<br />
D. profit?</p>
<p>A. Get Noble
<br />
1.) Players will need to be noble in Taldor, and Taldor nobles cannot be made from new people.</p>
<p>2.) There are two "lost" noble houses and getting named heir by either of them would get the job done.</p>
<p>3.) One noble house is actually all dead (work to find this out), but raise dead or forgery plus critical lost artifacts could get the title (work to get this done)</p>
<p>4.) The other house's sole representative is held captive by demons/pirate demons/ninja pirate demons. Rescue plus refinancing the noble plus awkward marriage to another richer house gets the title.</p>
<p>B. Get on the banking concern board</p>
<p>1.) Corporations are controlled by people, people who don't like you, you upstart foreigner noble! But you don't have the generations to waste waiting to be an old family! So time to get on the board.</p>
<p>2.) Make 5 powerful NPC's, each with very different backgrounds. Make 1 good, one very evil and 3 in the middle. Create a system by which the PC can either:</p>
<p>3.) Ally with the good guy and find a way to get rid of the bad guy while also being discovered as a massive hero in town so that public pressure gets them on the board.</p>
<p>4.) Convince all 3 neutrals to vote someone else off, who then becomes an eternal enemy.</p>
<p>C. Get rid of rivals</p>
<p>1.) the problem with the rest of the board members is that they have their own interests. you can't control the banks until you have replaced them with lackeys...er...uh...I mean...upstanding individuals that mirror your own interests.</p>
<p>2.) Become a pirate unofficially and drive that shipping family to their knees.</p>
<p>3.) win a series of convoluted social encounters to force someone to demand a duel while also looking the victim.</p>
<p>4.) win a military campaign for the king instead of your rival.</p>
<p>D. Profit?</p>
<p>1.) the problem with owning the bank is the work of keeping it profitable. Greasing the right wheels, being present at every social engagement, stopping people from meddling, etc. Plus, this new dangerous adventuring party just came to town and it looks like one of them wants to get into banking...</p>
<p>It's the circle of life.</p>Human puppet has it. Set up a series of goals for the player and party that coincide with the actual adventures:
tl;dr Global structure:
A. get noble
B. get on banking concern board
C. get rid of rivals
D. profit?
A. Get Noble
1.) Players will need to be noble in Taldor, and Taldor nobles cannot be made from new people.
2.) There are two "lost" noble houses and getting named heir by either of them would get the job done.
3.) One noble house is actually all dead (work to find this out),...Gevaudan2015-08-10T18:51:15ZRe: Forums: Advice and Rules Questions: Mega Frog God Campaign, Advice and Discussion? [Stoneheart Valley, Bard's Gate, Rappan Athuk, Slumbering Tsar]Gevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2sq50?Mega-Frog-God-Campaign-Advice-and-Discussion#172020-01-27T07:07:35Z2015-08-06T21:05:43Z<p>I'm a player in an RA campaign and we've tackled the Mouth of Doom, Gut and some of RA. The first segments work really well for a fetch quest in the Mouth that leads to a chase through the Gut into RA. My party currently has some souls on hawk to some devils in return for the destruction of a "temple", which as a DM you might be able to fashion as an end to the segment, assuming there actually is a temple in our near future and it isn't so tough as to wipe the whole party.</p>I'm a player in an RA campaign and we've tackled the Mouth of Doom, Gut and some of RA. The first segments work really well for a fetch quest in the Mouth that leads to a chase through the Gut into RA. My party currently has some souls on hawk to some devils in return for the destruction of a "temple", which as a DM you might be able to fashion as an end to the segment, assuming there actually is a temple in our near future and it isn't so tough as to wipe the whole party.Gevaudan2015-08-06T21:05:43ZForums: Product Discussion: Rappan Athuk review #2: So many spikes! (spoilers)Gevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2sd7y?Rappan-Athuk-review-2-So-many-spikes#12015-06-25T15:03:00Z2015-06-18T14:55:16Z<p>I thought I would continue updating our progress, as we plod through the Gut at lv. 5.</p>
<p>After a session that was very uneventful, our party reconvened to try to investigate a runed cavern. At the end of the previous session, my untethered eidolon, Eli, found some bodies spiked to the wall. While investigating, he dropped out of contact and when I blipped him back to the party, he was still catatonic.</p>
<p>At the start of this session, our druid commander requested that we investigate the occurrence, so we proceeded to the spiked bodies.</p>
<p>Spikes Round 1:</p>
<p>Yeah...TPK time. Therein lay a room. As the party booked into the room, we heard "everyone make a will save!" Several people and pets failed, and proceeded to shamble over and await...</p>
<p>Becoming more staked bodies for a gaunt dude with a hammer and a giant spike.</p>
<p>Three party members made their saves, including the archer paladin, who quickly had to put his new shiny magic sword to use. It was a brief tough fight. Our party sucks at combat healing and the "spiker" was a heavy damage dealer.</p>
<p>After finding a lot of boots, we decided that the runed caverns were just to unstable to continue exploring.</p>
<p>We continued down the gut for a while and then, of all things, daylight! And mushrooms! Lots of Mushrooms. Fortunately, we recently added a ranger to the party, and he identified some shriekers and yellow? brown? mold. The commander requested a pile of fire elementals to burn everything to the ground.</p>
<p>So, 10 elementals went in, the shriekers went off and 1 round later, 1 elemental came back to report that the other 9 had almost instantly perished.</p>
<p>My master summoner, recently recovered from the realm of the dead, was a little shaken by this. Our Duergar though, was unperturbed and proceed to waltz into the room and get surrounded by a pile of "shriekers" with four 15 foot tentacles apiece. That was not a good dungeoneering roll.</p>
<p>Fortunately, Duergar are immune to horrid gross rotting death and barbarians have damage reduction, so we began shooting and poking at the Violet Fungii.</p>
<p>The drow cleric, who is in love with the duergar barbarian, used shield other on her to mitigate some damage. This was a brilliant play until some crazy dude with a pile of spears came running into the other side of the cavern.</p>
<p>Described as having muscles on top of his muscles' muscles, Sir Musclesalot starting pegging the barbarian for 30 points a spear, at 2 spears a round...which killed the cleric through the 'shield other'. Though a magical DM intervention delivered a save, we dutifully filled out our obituary, for casualty number 2.</p>
<p>Many blows were exchanged, Sir musclesalot fled, a huge pack of ghouls joined the combat and eventually, the conscious party members won through.</p>
<p>Design note: The duergar is a very powerful race for being 9rp.
<br />
Design note 2: this was the most fun, deadly mushroom encounter I've ever faced. A party caught mid-room would certainly die in 1 round.</p>
<p>Spikes Round 2:</p>
<p>The master summoner, upset at losing an entire day's worth of summons to cooking vegetables requested that the party hunt down the badly damaged sir musclesalot, because "we can heal and he probably can't."</p>
<p>The party agreed and quickly tracked the fellow down, into...A scary dungeon! Has the party finally discovered RA?</p>
<p>Combat was quickly joined as Sir Musclesalot proceeded to grapple the 1200 pound enlarged barbarian and slam her over and over again onto a spike set in the floor. Holy Cow! That's a musclely man!</p>
<p>Then he doused the archer paladin with green slime, nearly dissolving him, and wrecking much of his equipment, including his bow.</p>
<p>Finally, Sir Musclesalot, spiker of barbarians, thower of nasty crap was reduced to exactly 0 hp and in his rage, put himself to -1.</p>
<p>After some study of various dm hints, it was deduced that the muscly dude is under the effect of cursey magic. This created a rescue/kill debate between the Paladin and Ranger (LG&CG) vs the Druid and Barbarian (NN & CN) with the summoner and cleric (NN&LN) abstaining.</p>
<p>Eventually, it was agreed to go back through the Gut and try to heal Sir Musclesalot. So now we are towing a crazy muscley dude with 6 coils of rope tied around him back through the Gut, using non-lethal damage and spells to keep him down and alive.</p>
<p>RA death count:2</p>I thought I would continue updating our progress, as we plod through the Gut at lv. 5.
After a session that was very uneventful, our party reconvened to try to investigate a runed cavern. At the end of the previous session, my untethered eidolon, Eli, found some bodies spiked to the wall. While investigating, he dropped out of contact and when I blipped him back to the party, he was still catatonic.
At the start of this session, our druid commander requested that we investigate the...Gevaudan2015-06-18T14:55:16ZRe: Forums: Advice: Allowing for completely nonsensically stupid decisions in serious situations.Gevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2sbeb?Allowing-for-completely-nonsensically-stupid#42015-06-08T19:37:57Z2015-05-31T15:06:24Z<p>Let the player die gruesomely and brutally. Have the lich reanimate them as an enslaved undead.</p>
<p>You kick a god, they kick back.</p>
<p>Then, here's the thing, continue as business as usual. the Lich shouldn't be upset at all. People challenge him foolishly every day. The deal continues, either with the remaining party members or a new party.</p>
<p>The more important question is why are the setting up a very legalistic Paladin to have to treat with a lich? If the paladin is lawful stupid, then this is sort of a setup.</p>Let the player die gruesomely and brutally. Have the lich reanimate them as an enslaved undead.
You kick a god, they kick back.
Then, here's the thing, continue as business as usual. the Lich shouldn't be upset at all. People challenge him foolishly every day. The deal continues, either with the remaining party members or a new party.
The more important question is why are the setting up a very legalistic Paladin to have to treat with a lich? If the paladin is lawful stupid, then this is...Gevaudan2015-05-31T15:06:24ZRe: Forums: Advice: Divination BluesGevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2safw?Divination-Blues#92015-05-22T05:04:56Z2015-05-21T21:52:13Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Covent wrote:</div><blockquote></p>
<p>I can see this, but what do I do when he is able to burn 20+ divination's a day and avoid several layers of encounters + protect the hostages before they get kidnapped?
<br />
</blockquote><p>A. Let them. Pathfinder is about cool abilities. some of these wreck up stories and that's what makes them fun.
<p>B. Build parallel meta-campaigns wherein the main campaign is going to be totally wrecked and the real adventure happens between the lines with other encounters and opportunities. Divination is the players ability to see the DM's FIRST plan. There are few ways to legally use divination to see every possible plan, because the infinite possible plans can't be cleanly answered by a god.</p>
<p>C. Add other necessary uses for divination questions. Do the hero have family, loved ones? Are they checking up on them with their divs? No? Sounds like a question the villain asked to his god, shortly before a kidnapping happened.</p>
<p>D. Add reasonable limitations for planar travel. Odin cannot easily see into Loki's domain. If villains go places with little information outflow, higher beings will struggle to get information for players. Shadow realms are great for this.</p>
<p>E. Have villains occasionally play smart. I'm the BBEG and I know I'm a big deal. I probably figured out I'm being divined. I think I'll wait until my spies tell me that I've been divined, and THEN make a pact with a Balor to wreck up some adventurers.</p>
<p>F. Sometimes, have the bad guy himself answer the divination if he's powerful enough. Nothing scares a party more than a powerful villain who willingly admits he's the source of their answers.</p>
<p>eg:</p>
<p>1.) What is the most dangerous situation that we will encounter in the next week?</p>
<p>ME! MWAAAAHAAAAAHAAAAAHAAAAAAAA!</p>
<p>2.) What is the best way to deal with the situation detected above?</p>
<p>I was once defeated by a powerful alliance of Thyr and Pelor. they crashed a plane into me. Are you gods? MWAAAAHAAAAHAAAAAA</p>
<p>3.) How does the planned actions change the level of danger for this situation?</p>
<p>Thyr died, but I was defeated. I would have killed Pelor too, had he not dashed that plane into me.</p>
<p>4.) Who is the most dangerous person we will come into direct physical/magical conflict with in the next week?</p>
<p>Why don't you come visit me and find out. MWAAAAHAAAHAAA!</p>Covent wrote:I can see this, but what do I do when he is able to burn 20+ divination's a day and avoid several layers of encounters + protect the hostages before they get kidnapped?
A. Let them. Pathfinder is about cool abilities. some of these wreck up stories and that's what makes them fun. B. Build parallel meta-campaigns wherein the main campaign is going to be totally wrecked and the real adventure happens between the lines with other encounters and opportunities. Divination is the...Gevaudan2015-05-21T21:52:13ZRe: Forums: Advice: Help my crush an armyGevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rvdo?Help-my-crush-an-army#442015-02-24T09:04:19Z2015-01-12T16:46:45Z<p>First, kudos to Ravingdork for publishing his story.</p>
<p>Second, there are two conversations here.</p>
<p>Question 1: How can a being that can break the laws of the world defeat an army of conventional weak beings who cannot break the laws of the world?</p>
<p>Answer 1: Any way she wants to. As Ravingdork's story shows, an army unable to predict, defend against and engage a caster of even mid level is just a bunch of walking corpses as long as the DM approves. The only thing they can do is kill the wizard's allies while the wizard hunts them all down bit by bit, if they spread out into suicide squads.</p>
<p>Question 2: How can a being that can break the laws of the world defeat an army of conventional weak beings who also can break the laws of the world and have massive wealth and planar contacts?</p>
<p>Answer 2: Hard to say if she can. A few scenarios are below.</p>
<p>Case 1: The nation being attacked worships a pantheon-tier god, who is invested in the nation surviving.</p>
<p>Result: Wizard loses unless the DM let's her win. Every trick the wizard can pull can be pulled better by the god and the god is also allowed to break the rules of Pathfinder, in addition to the rules of the world. The god can literally show up in your undetectable, unenterable super plane of respite and straight kill you whenever and however it wants to. The god has basically infinite miracles, infinite wishes, infinite resources and infinite time.</p>
<p>The wizard was probably killed before they were ever born (the Pun Pun defense). Imagine how many adventurers never even existed because of godly meddling.</p>
<p>Case 2: The kingdom has planar contacts and vast wealth. This is the stuff fantasy novels are made out of and a common story of how tieflings came to be:</p>
<p>"Pressed by the relentless vengeance of the Archmage Thanosa, the rulers of Thyreem made a blood-pact with the Arch-Devils, gating a horde of them into the material plane and dooming their nation to slavery."</p>
<p>Result: Now the wizard has to deal with 20 advanced pit-fiends and their impressive selection of spells, items and minions. This is a more fair fight.</p>
<p>Case 3: The wizard wants to rule and to do so needs only supplant the rulers. The rulers do not know she is coming.</p>
<p>Result: Likely a new queen, whom all will love and despair and who will eventually face a band of plucky adventurers who grew up on the impoverished streets of her poorly managed kingdom. It's the Pathfinder circle of life!</p>First, kudos to Ravingdork for publishing his story.
Second, there are two conversations here.
Question 1: How can a being that can break the laws of the world defeat an army of conventional weak beings who cannot break the laws of the world?
Answer 1: Any way she wants to. As Ravingdork's story shows, an army unable to predict, defend against and engage a caster of even mid level is just a bunch of walking corpses as long as the DM approves. The only thing they can do is kill the wizard's...Gevaudan2015-01-12T16:46:45ZForums: Advice and Rules Questions: Rappan Athuk review: survival to 4th!Gevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rt9u?Rappan-Athuk-review-survival-to-4th#12019-12-13T02:57:54Z2014-12-19T16:51:31Z<p>Moved from General.</p>
<p>Our party barbarian asked me to post that we managed to level to 4th level in Rappan Athuk and to defeat the boss room in the Mouth of Doom with no deaths. It was a near thing several times and my poor poor eidolon is still ruined.</p>
<p>That certainly redefined being in the bowels of a dungeon!</p>
<p>Altogether, I would say that RA is a very challenging module for low level play and people should expect deaths. There are several death traps in the early stages and the random encounters are outrageously powerful.</p>
<p>I would give the following advice:
<br />
1.) run often and fast.
<br />
2.) think outside the box.</p>
<p>Mechanically, it functions as a difficult adventure because of several design approaches:
<br />
1.) Near total embargo of purchasable goods.
<br />
2.) At level CR+4 to CR+8 encounters sprinkled in on each level.
<br />
3.) Lack of grindable areas if the stuff you find is too tough.</p>
<p>Good stuff.</p>Moved from General.
Our party barbarian asked me to post that we managed to level to 4th level in Rappan Athuk and to defeat the boss room in the Mouth of Doom with no deaths. It was a near thing several times and my poor poor eidolon is still ruined.
That certainly redefined being in the bowels of a dungeon!
Altogether, I would say that RA is a very challenging module for low level play and people should expect deaths. There are several death traps in the early stages and the random...Gevaudan2014-12-19T16:51:31ZForums: Product Discussion: Rappan Athuk review: survival to 4th!Gevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rt9d?Rappan-Athuk-review-survival-to-4th#12014-12-22T01:04:01Z2014-12-19T14:42:49Z<p>Our party barbarian asked me to post that we managed to reach 4th level in Rappan Athuk and defeat the boss room in the Mouth of Doom with no deaths. It was a near thing several times and my poor poor eidolon is still ruined.</p>
<p>That certainly redefined being in the bowels of a dungeon!</p>
<p>Altogether, I would say that RA is a very challenging module for low level play and people should expect deaths. There are several death traps in the early stages and the random encounters are outrageously powerful.</p>
<p>I would give the following advice:
<br />
1.) run often and fast.
<br />
2.) think outside the box.</p>
<p>Mechanically, it functions as a difficult adventure because of several design approaches:
<br />
1.) Near total embargo of purchasable goods.
<br />
2.) At level CR+4 to CR+8 encounters sprinkled in on each level.
<br />
3.) Lack of grindable areas.</p>
<p>Good stuff.</p>Our party barbarian asked me to post that we managed to reach 4th level in Rappan Athuk and defeat the boss room in the Mouth of Doom with no deaths. It was a near thing several times and my poor poor eidolon is still ruined.
That certainly redefined being in the bowels of a dungeon!
Altogether, I would say that RA is a very challenging module for low level play and people should expect deaths. There are several death traps in the early stages and the random encounters are outrageously...Gevaudan2014-12-19T14:42:49ZRe: Forums: Advice: Including a true history.Gevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rrye?Including-a-true-history#42014-12-12T20:14:09Z2014-12-12T19:41:04Z<p>In a fantasy setting, not all that is written is similar. Irl, in ancient times, lots of divergent accounts were recorded and turned up at various points, despite massive purges and genocides.</p>
<p>Uncovering the truth can be an entire campaign.</p>
<p>For local in game mysteries, add in clues that allow exploration and let the expert know best:</p>
<p>Example:</p>
<p>History check—Vlaad the Slaughterific</p>
<p>DC 10: Vlaad was a tyrant warlord responsible for the slaughter of the Dracine Elves in 605 CRE.
<br />
DC 15: Vlaad used dark powers of necromancy to achieve his ends. His citadel was Anthar. (adventure hook)
<br />
DC 20: It is mysterious that a normal human could achieve such magical power. He gained his powers at the Ruins of Telath. (adventure hook)
<br />
DC 25: One rumor, rarely spoken, was that Vlaad could be in multiple places at once.
<br />
DC 30: An ancient document, Eltor's Light, which you once saw at The Great Library, tells a different story, wherein Vlaad was a benign ruler murdered and replaced by a coven of changeling necromancers.
<br />
DC 35: The truth, known only by the most specialized scholars, is that for a period of 50 years, these changelings replaced several rulers of the time, shaping the continent by waging wars against each other. (major reveal)</p>In a fantasy setting, not all that is written is similar. Irl, in ancient times, lots of divergent accounts were recorded and turned up at various points, despite massive purges and genocides.
Uncovering the truth can be an entire campaign.
For local in game mysteries, add in clues that allow exploration and let the expert know best:
Example:
History check--Vlaad the Slaughterific
DC 10: Vlaad was a tyrant warlord responsible for the slaughter of the Dracine Elves in 605 CRE.
DC 15:...Gevaudan2014-12-12T19:41:04ZRe: Forums: Advice: Advice for what to do with tough GMGevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ro8n?Advice-for-what-to-do-with-tough-GM#362014-11-06T23:29:54Z2014-11-05T20:20:48Z<p>It seems less like you're playing Pathfinder and more like you're playing Pathfinder Tactics (tm).</p>
<p>A few thoughts:</p>
<p>1.) You're a wizard. You can cast almost every spell in the game. Even if you sank a level into sorc to get the +2 damage per die, you have a ton of no SR spells to get and you can teleport to get them.</p>
<p>2.) Spend some money and buy some Gates. Nothing says hilarious like 30 lantern archons wailing away at crappy touch AC.</p>
<p>3.) Prep spells that make other players into insane superstars. Ask how quickly you can add +10/+10 to any/every other combatant.</p>
<p>4.) Summons and Simulacra. Make Druids of a high enough level to bring in cyclopses and the AC doesn't even matter. Then have them snowball lock the dragon into perpetual staggered. Have the cyclopses pin the dragon and finish it.</p>
<p>5.) Ready walls of force to let the dragon smash into if he's flying.</p>
<p>In the end, if you bring in all the summons, cast all the perfect illusions, make all the perfect tactical decisions and the DM ignores it all and beelines over to wipe you, it's a bad DM and you were going to wipe no matter what.</p>It seems less like you're playing Pathfinder and more like you're playing Pathfinder Tactics (tm).
A few thoughts:
1.) You're a wizard. You can cast almost every spell in the game. Even if you sank a level into sorc to get the +2 damage per die, you have a ton of no SR spells to get and you can teleport to get them.
2.) Spend some money and buy some Gates. Nothing says hilarious like 30 lantern archons wailing away at crappy touch AC.
3.) Prep spells that make other players into insane...Gevaudan2014-11-05T20:20:48ZRe: Forums: Advice: So my pirate PC just made an engine for thier boat.Gevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rni3?So-my-pirate-PC-just-made-an-engine-for-thier#92014-10-31T01:39:01Z2014-10-30T14:46:32Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Mergy wrote:</div><blockquote> I doubt they would be refused at all ports. The best thing you could do is have other people start copying them. Maybe not to as great an effect, but it would add an in universe arms race that would come from a fresh new idea. Some other boat hires a necromancer to make their boat move, and he can start hiring himself out to the PCs rivals. </blockquote><p>Mergy, this is so good. It puts in all the fun extra encounters you may want and adds consequences without wrecking the story.
<p>As an added suggestion, Pathfinder seas are filled with many aggressive territorial creatures of vast size. Add a % die to your wandering monster encounters while at sea. 1 and 100 draw a hostile kraken or something that attacks the motor only.</p>Mergy wrote:I doubt they would be refused at all ports. The best thing you could do is have other people start copying them. Maybe not to as great an effect, but it would add an in universe arms race that would come from a fresh new idea. Some other boat hires a necromancer to make their boat move, and he can start hiring himself out to the PCs rivals.
Mergy, this is so good. It puts in all the fun extra encounters you may want and adds consequences without wrecking the story. As an added...Gevaudan2014-10-30T14:46:32ZRe: Forums: Advice: Help with rude playerGevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rm22?Help-with-rude-player#232014-10-20T14:09:02Z2014-10-19T14:46:22Z<p>A couple of thoughts:</p>
<p>1.) Alpha gaming (playing for everyone else) is a common issue in rpgs and board games. I'm guilty of it myself often, and have had to work on it profusely.</p>
<p>It sounds like this is a conflict between 2 alpha gamers, with bad verbal exchange. If you want to strategize or you just want to play, you've gotta talk about it before hand. I often ask for party permission to launch into a heavy strategy session. If a few people say no, I simple wing it on the fly.</p>
<p>2.) Several people have said that it's disruptive/unrealistic to strategize after initiative. I think this is often true.</p>
<p>However, on the flip side, we are accountants and fast food workers playing heroes who possess years of tactical experience. Whereas within my real life job I can react to a major problem instantly, sometimes I want to take time to figure out what my avatar actually can do, and then what she would do. I imagine my avatar reacting instantly, even though I spend 5 minutes deciding her story.</p>
<p>I've had new players take 15 minutes to explore what their relevant abilities do in the face of a dragon, and I trend towards that being a useful expenditure of time. If it happens constantly, I can see it being a problem.</p>A couple of thoughts:
1.) Alpha gaming (playing for everyone else) is a common issue in rpgs and board games. I'm guilty of it myself often, and have had to work on it profusely.
It sounds like this is a conflict between 2 alpha gamers, with bad verbal exchange. If you want to strategize or you just want to play, you've gotta talk about it before hand. I often ask for party permission to launch into a heavy strategy session. If a few people say no, I simple wing it on the fly.
2.) Several...Gevaudan2014-10-19T14:46:22ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Bad Guy Won...?Gevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rlb1?The-Bad-Guy-Won#382014-10-14T03:42:26Z2014-10-13T21:21:26Z<p>Be careful not to confuse the story you want to tell with the story your players may want to create.</p>
<p>Having players not get saves for story purposes is a dicey proposition. A player with an arcane character could thwart this quite easily. A summoner's summons would already have caught the Bard between scent and see invisible. None of the Bard's magic should be powerful enough to flat force the party to comply instantly.</p>
<p>A Dystopia setting is wicked cool. Capturing that experience is worth doing. Forcing players to fail is less awesome.</p>
<p>Why not have him go through an actual mirror, revealing a true mirror world wherein he has already succeeded? Perhaps one material plane isn't enough for this guy. You could spin every relationship that the party has in their material plane with a twist. Maybe the hero's alter-egos went bad, or died trying. Their friends and allies feel abandoned or need rescuing or converting.</p>Be careful not to confuse the story you want to tell with the story your players may want to create.
Having players not get saves for story purposes is a dicey proposition. A player with an arcane character could thwart this quite easily. A summoner's summons would already have caught the Bard between scent and see invisible. None of the Bard's magic should be powerful enough to flat force the party to comply instantly.
A Dystopia setting is wicked cool. Capturing that experience is worth...Gevaudan2014-10-13T21:21:26ZRe: Forums: Advice: High Damage CharacterGevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rkg4?High-Damage-Character#102014-10-07T02:23:16Z2014-10-06T14:43:22Z<p>A standard Barbarian with a two handed weapon will deliver the best per hit performance at level 1, as the rage makes them able to deliver the biggest blow. I've found this pretty useful for DR bypass and single target elimination. You really only need power attack and raging vitality. You can flavor the barbarian however you want with DR or more natural attacks.</p>
<p>A toothy anything barbarian can bite claw claw at level 2 with lesser beast totem.</p>A standard Barbarian with a two handed weapon will deliver the best per hit performance at level 1, as the rage makes them able to deliver the biggest blow. I've found this pretty useful for DR bypass and single target elimination. You really only need power attack and raging vitality. You can flavor the barbarian however you want with DR or more natural attacks.
A toothy anything barbarian can bite claw claw at level 2 with lesser beast totem.Gevaudan2014-10-06T14:43:22ZRe: Forums/Gamer Life: General Discussion: How to Build An Effective Character Every, Single TimeGevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rk10?How-to-Build-An-Effective-Character-Every#242014-10-11T08:31:05Z2014-10-03T17:20:49Z<p>I'm not sure this advice does much to help character building in an RPG like PF. If you handed this advice to a brand new player, they wouldn't be much closer to playing, although they'd be less prone to a few common mistakes.</p>
<p>PF demands an impressive level of system mastery just to play as a beginner or else it demands experienced players helping you along. Compare it to Settlers of Katan, which a new player is ready to play in 15 minutes.</p>
<p>Pathfinder is a party game that forces players to be numerical failures at some things so other players can succeed. Knowing what your party can do together is more important than knowing what you can do.</p>
<p>Pathfinder is a game with tons of insider knowledge you need. You have to know about critical imbalances to succeed (i.e. Dex/Con vs. others) unless you're being carried.</p>
<p>You can play a session of pathfinder lite by putting steps 1 and 5 on index cards and rolling with it, but you won't really get what's going on, how experience works, or what you have to look forward to.</p>I'm not sure this advice does much to help character building in an RPG like PF. If you handed this advice to a brand new player, they wouldn't be much closer to playing, although they'd be less prone to a few common mistakes.
PF demands an impressive level of system mastery just to play as a beginner or else it demands experienced players helping you along. Compare it to Settlers of Katan, which a new player is ready to play in 15 minutes.
Pathfinder is a party game that forces players to...Gevaudan2014-10-03T17:20:49ZRe: Forums: Advice: How do summoned monsters feel about being summoned?Gevaudanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2riku&page=2?How-do-summoned-monsters-feel-about-being#572014-09-24T15:50:15Z2014-09-23T15:43:04Z<p>In my game, we created a "summoning office" and the creatures have discussions around the water cooler about the happenings whilst they were summoned.</p>
<p>Summonings frequently interrupt paperwork tasks and synergy meetings.</p>In my game, we created a "summoning office" and the creatures have discussions around the water cooler about the happenings whilst they were summoned.
Summonings frequently interrupt paperwork tasks and synergy meetings.Gevaudan2014-09-23T15:43:04Z