Rewrite Ultimate Equipment Scorpion Whip as follows.
Table entry:
Whip, Scorpion .... 15 gp .... 1d3 .... 1d4 .... x2 .... — .... 3 lb. .... S .... Performance
Scorpion Whip
Price 15 gp
Type exotic
This whip has a series of razor-sharp blades and fangs inset along its tip. If you are proficient with whips you are proficient with the scorpion whip, you can use it as a whip.
=====
I've been getting back into Pathfinder after a decent hiatus and am only now digging into Ultimate Equipment... and much to my horror I find the butchered Ultimate Combat version of the Scorpion Whip still clinging to life.
What was wrong the Adventurer's Armory Scorpion Whip? I want a designer to answer. Paizo, you've managed to dodge and basically ignore all feedback you got when you rolled out the UC version. You haven't addressed any of the problems or confusion pointed out. Such as why does it suddenly change from a Light weapon to a One-Handed weapon if you're proficient with and use it like a normal Whip.
From a mechanical standpoint the now Ultimate Equipment Scorpion Whip is a bogus use of the Exotic Weapon proficiency. The gladius makes a better choice. The knuckle axe, madu, Pata, Quadrens, and Sica as well.
.... *insert rage face meme here*
Okay I get it, a 15 foot reach lethal damage melee weapon isn't coming back as single feat equipment. For whatever strange reason you've decided this isn't balanced and you had to find a way to force Whip using characters into taking the Whip Mastery feat chain.
However could you at the minimum errata your neutered Scorpion Whip so that it's covered by Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Whip). If you have to bump the gold price to 15 gp instead of 5. As it stands there is zero logical reason to take EWP (Scorpion Whip). It's dead end for the "performance" tag and takes you out of the way of the Whip Mastery set
In short rewrite the entry as "Whip, Scorpion". The same way the game already treats a "Bow" and its Composite entires. "For purposes of Weapon Proficiency and Weapon Focus a scorpion whip is treated as if it were a whip." See even dropping the "and similar feats" to avoid any oddities that could come up from Whip Mastery.
OR to really KISS and save some word space
This whip has a series of razor-sharp blades and fangs inset along its tip. It deals lethal damage, even to creatures with armor bonuses. If you are proficient with whips you are proficient with the scorpion whip, you can use it as a whip.
5 extra words to turn a failure into something usable. plus 1 extra character to bump the gold price from 5g to 15g
You really want to get skimpy and rely on the implied elements of the weapon table
This whip has a series of razor-sharp blades and fangs inset along its tip. If you are proficient with whips you are proficient with the scorpion whip, you can use it as a whip.
Note completely dropping the "lethal damage part". It already has its entry doing 1d4 lethal damage, the lack of a "nonlethal" tag is a giveaway there. The only confusion will remain the "you can use it as a whip." part, which is currently a point of confusion as it is currently written so no change there.
Its things like this that make me glad I don't participate in Pathfinder Society play, as I can house rule poor design choices like this out of my games.
Excuse the meme but... from a partly related thread
Brasten wrote:
Jameow wrote:
You could run a P&P over the game xD
I had the entertaining notion of adding maps and miniatures to the game so people could play pathfinder while playing pathfinder.
Yes, yes you could do that. XD
Chat commands with /roll for dice and random number generation should be added if it isn't in the plans already. /roll should be familiar to anyone who's tried to game over chat clients between now and the early days of IRC.
LISA! RYAN! Anyone! Get us /roll commands for dice in PFO chat! This must become a thing!
Now that the Kickstarter is done I'm going to put my moth where my money went. There are very few issues I feel really strongly about to the point of want to act like a goblin in library (lots of screaming and yelling an fire) but the equivalent of post 20 play is one of them.
From the GoblinWorks Blog
Quote:
We also wanted to capture the idea from the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game that dedication to one path would have additional benefits. Therefore, if your character chooses to stay committed to one of these archetypes until it has achieved all 20 archetype merit badges, your character will earn an additional capstone ability! (A character can train in many other skills outside of their archetype skill tree and still progress towards the capstone ability—they just need to avoid training in the skill tree of a different archtype. Don't worry—if you accidentally start to train a skill tree outside your archetype, you'll be warned, the consequences will be explained, and you'll have a chance to change that decision before it's irrevocable!)
Of course, if you decide that it would be more interesting or fun for your character to training in the skills of more than one archetype, you'll still earn the appropriate class-type bonuses when you meet the prerequisites—you just won't be eligible for the final special capstone ability when you achieve the 20th merit badge in that archetype.
Reaching 20th Level
It won't be easy or quick to reach the 20th-level capstone in an archetype. Some of the prerequistes for archetype merit badges will be hard to achieve and will require your character to succeed in some extraordinary adventures. In terms of sheer time, I'd like to see the first 20th-level characters emerge around two-and-a-half-years after launch. Capstone-level characters should be unique, powerful individuals not commonly encountered.
And of course, reaching the capstone doesn't mean your character has to retire—you can continue training the same character with a different archetype if you like.
• 2.5 years to reach "20"
• 20th level in a class has a Capstone power.
• Want to Capture the Pen and Paper RPG dedication to a class.
• EVE Model of time progressed skills.
Those are the facts we currently have.
=====
To keep this from being a totally personal rant and a legitimate discussion thread, I though it appropriate to open this up to thoughts and discussion looking at the long term of Pathfinder Online. Unlike the table-top game there is not currently a hard limit on character progression. The "20" level equivalent can be passed by a character. This means that in about 3 years after launch we will start seeing the first post-20 characters. This is a long time but we can be optimistic believe that Pathfinder Online will survive at least as long as EVE Online (coming up on 9 years and still going).
After that 3 year mark we have two issues that come up, the same as they do in the Pen and Paper game.
1) Power Scale
2) Class/Character Progression
Of the two Power Scaling is the biggest long term issue. It's an argument that continues to roll back and forth on the pen and paper side as to what "official" post-20 content should look like, if there is any at all. While Pathfinder RPG can get away with unofficial or 3rd party post-20 rules, Pathfinder Online cannot. The nature of the EVE-like skill system insures that any character played beyond 2.5 years has to be accounted for. This means Goblinworks needs to give thought to not just the per-20 landscape but also the post-20 play. How powerful will these post-20 characters be? Will they behave like the guidelines on page 406 of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook with ever increasing attack, hit points, and resistances (saves)? Will they look something more like E6 where power progression falls off sharply and becomes nearly static? Part of the answer depends on how the Skill system is structured, the devil being in the details.
Tied to the first issue is the second of how do characters progress post-20. In an EVE-like skill system the answer is pick a new skill and train that. This brings us two to three choices. First is simplest for the design team and to allow characters to cross-train into different archetypes. This is already intended to be part of the system for multiclassing and has been brought up in earlier threads. A second option to create a post-20 Skill tree for these classes to use, which is basically like adding new classes to the game. It is what 3.0/3.5 OGL Epic rules tried to do with mixed results. A third is like the second but with what the Pen and Paper game calls Prestige Classes, classes outside the normal structure but that are linked more directly to game world in some way.
There is a great deal of mulling to do about the shape Pathfinder Online will take 3+ years down road. This does not even touch on the whole kingdom building aspect, which we hopefully won't get into here.
Apple eduction press event was just a few minutes ago and part of it was an eBook authoring tool. I'm still up updating my 10.7 development system so I not sure what format it outputs yet. Looks like ePub3 with some Apple twists. Hopefully this won't lock it excusively to iBooks on iPads, but it's early yet.
The demonstration make it look like it could actually be useful in producing books and materials more appropriate for your hobby. One part that has me most intrigued is the option for people who know JavaScript to build their own widgets.
I thought I'd open up the thread now. iBook Author is free to Mac users with 10.7.2 Lion, iBooks 2 is open to iPad iOS users of 4.2/5.
*edit*
Foo, it spits out iBook propriety variant ePub. Although it can also export PDF so it isn't a total dead end for layout and production at the amateurs level.
There was nothing I hated more in EVE then flagging system in CONCORD. Complex, exploitable, and did absolutely nothing to stop griefing of casual players. There were perfect for the dystopian and nihilistic atmosphere that of that game.
However for something like Pathfinder Online I really do not want to see that level of open ended back stabbing fostered and supported. It makes it nearly impossible to 1) trust anyone, 2) play casually, 3) actually have some impromptu fun for an hour or three.
The flagging system in EVE was complex to the point where I got killed trying to come to the aid of a Corp member who took a pot shot at a "Can Flipper". Someone who comes into a PvE mission and loots bodies they didn't kill, like if anyone could run in and yonk Deathwings loot roll in WoW without actually being in the raid. As I said, I hate this personally, but it works in the style and setting EVE is.
I strongly encourage GoblinWorks to avoid the mess that is the CONCORD style of flagging when it comes to Player vs Player interactions. An opt-in system to different levels of conflict is far more preferable. If you want to loot other peoples kills, or pickpocket other players, let that be an opt-in permanent (or time-senstaive, like for a month or year) element which allows players who have opted in to interact with each other on that level. Things like Kingdom level ownership/participation could be place in that those opt-in PvP levels.
This seems like the place to open a rambling discussion about the latest Internet obsession about Apple making a TV better. I'm sure we've all seen the 30 Rock clip by now... If not I'll post it later when I'm at a better location.
As I've said in other threads I still think Apple will not make a full TV. It's a rather cut through market with very low margins. The problem is (as has been pointed out with the 2010 All Things D Jobs clip) with the settop box and the need to rebuild and unify them....
I'll go a step further and include DVD, BluRay, and for those old fuddie duddies like me who still have VHS as "Set-top" boxes. How in the world can Apple "fix" all of those? While Jobs and Apple likes to build End-To-End devices there is no way they'd get people to pay again for that several hundred dollar BluRay player, no would they bundle VHS support.
So, how? This brings up two key issues in the home theater.
1) UI replacement. Unify all those conflicting and butt ugly UI. Even ones still lurking about from the 80/90s VHS players.
2) One Control. Condense 3 or 4 or 5 remotes to 1.
And 3) for Apple, do it in a way the consumer doesn't even really notice past easy setup.
Well, I'm going be like every other nut job commentator and blow hard by saying "I think I know how." This may not sound elegant at first go but hopefully the existing technologies and logical extrapolation will out.
I'll start at 2) as it is the easiest technology to grasp and has been around for years. Universal remotes were supposed to "solve" this multi-remote mess but it didn't really take off. Partly because they "don't just work", I know I've tried to set them up before and to quote me, "eat UI for breakfast." It's a mess because you have too switch them back and forth between different settings and even then they may not work well or miss functions.
Enter a "smarter" system like an AppleTV with a powerful IR broadcaster that can bounce the single off the wall behind you and back to the defectives its going to be bossing. It can quickly switch to the right blink patterns, have access to a wide (Apple held) database, and do it in a way you don't notice.... Unless you can see IR beams. Apple TV becomes your universal remote for all "set tops" you've got hooked up.
This brings up another question, how does it know which devices are there?
Back to 1), both the way to unify the UI and take a base pass at figuring out what "set tops" you have. This requires a bit of knowledge about iPhoto and FaceTime/Photo Booth Apple programs.
Apple toutes it's "Face" recognition software and even recently played it up for the latest iMovie. If you have an algorithm that can ID faces, not an easy task, you can turn it to ID visual UI, which are more static and regular then faces in photos. Throw in an A5 or A6 apple iOS processor with a dedicated GPU and you should now have the processing power to interpreted UI elements.
I bring up FaceTime becaue of its ability to overlay things like an animted roller coasters or static images on top of a live video feed it is getting from a camera. Good for college kids trying to hide their messy room from helicopter parents. As with the "Face" recognition the system can ID different elements of a live video and then selectively replace them with other images/video/User Interfaces.
And that is what I see. Using existing, proven technologies, to knock down the problems of integrating different "boxes" into one interface point. Assuming its an Apple TV, it IDs the other incoming box/player based on its UI (which you have to show it first), downloads the correct "driver" for it's "universal remote", and for ever after replaces all UI with its own brushed Apple one. Throw in Siri voice command (and IMO depth-camera/Kinect tech) and you have one box to rule them all.
No fighting with different country standards, no messy battles with content providers, it just works. Maybe this is not the direction Apple will go, maybe this wouldn't even work well if done. But that's my take on making the seemingly impossible possible.
P.S. .... It could even turn on the TV that it's attached to :P
I was developing these rules of an Impropute/Ad-Hock style of play-by-post. Each player would run a whole party. However I think the basic prices and assumptions can work for general Hireling pricing. These were intend to be place on random encounter tables as "friendly" encounters, hence the reference to the CR. I've also considered it a rough guide to use when haggling over up front payment when playing a PC :-P.
(Tabel: Service Costs)
Spellcasting .......... Caster level x spell level x 10 gp per spell
Skill ...................... Character level x ranks x 3 sp per day
Ability .................. Character level x class level/2 of ability x 10 gp per use
Combat ................ Character level x base attack bonus x 3 sp per day*
*Plus full cost of equipment.
A service encounter is one with a friendly NPC who has some skill or ability the party can pay for. These include spells, skills, and abilities. Please use the Service Costs table to determine the price. A service's caster or character level is equal to its CR + 1 if it comes from a PC class, or its CR + 2 if it comes from an NPC class.
Spell services come from a NPC or PC classed spell caster: Adept, Cleric, Sorcerer, or Wizard. The party may purchase up to half the of the available spell slots, not including specialization or bonus spells. The party must also supply any costly material components. A spell service casts all of the purchased spells then leaves.
Skill based services are typically available from wandering Bards, Experts, Rangers, and Rogues. The party may pick any 3 skills that are available for hire. The skill checks are made with a bonus equal to the number of ranks plus + 5 (assumes a class skill and a +2 ability modifier). The party may pay an extra 50 gold to add +2 bonus for masterwork tools. The party must also pay any costs associated with the skill’s use. A skill service remains available as long as the party continues to pay the cost of at least one of the three available skills each day. A skill service flees and is lost as soon as the first combat encounter occurs, either random or at a dungeon site.
Ability services can come from any class with special class abilities. This includes things like a paladin’s lay on hands, or a cleric’s channel energy. A party can purchase one half of the available uses of any special class ability, not including bonuses from high ability scores. The cost is equal the service's character level times the half the level at which the ability is gained rounded up. Example: a paladin's mercy ability costs at minimum 3 (character level) x 2 (level/2 mercy is gained) x 10 gp, for 90 gp. Abilities that gain more options or greater potency with increased level do incur greater cost. Example: a 9th level cleric’s channel energy would cost 9 (character level) x 5 (level/2 channel energy was gained) x 10 gp, for 450 gp, and would heal 5d6 damage. An ability service leaves as soon as it uses the abilities that were paid for.
Combat based services will fight with the party. They will not risk their lives however, and will not engage in melee combat with any single enemy with a CR greater then their character level unless a party member is also threatening the same creature. In addition to the cost per day, the party must also pay for all equipment the service uses, playing full cost. The party may offset this cost by selling the combat service equipment from the party’s own collection at full value of item (instead of the normal 1/2 value when selling items). If a combat service is reduced to 25% of its total hit points, or takes a single blow equal to 25% of its total hit points, it attempts to flee the battle and is lost along with all carried equipment.
I'd like to gauge interest from board members in an iPad and/or iPhone formatted version. I'm personally fine with using the sheet more or less as it shows up in iOS Numbers, but it looks like total mess when the cells unjoin. Before I spend my time "prettifying" and updating it I'm hoping to see if anyone else would likely snag a copy if I put it online.
So far I haven't found an iOS character sheet App for iOS that looks like it'd do what I'd want, or looks like it could be update with new content quickly. I know HeroLabs is coming Sometime™, but like ValveTime™ that always is longer then expected. So... there I am.
I thought I'd try my hand at this "web comic" thing as a result of the ongoing "Epic/Mythic" discussion. It struck me during one of the threads that the anime Gurren Lagann has many wonderful analogies to Pathfinder play. As I have very little artistic skill I figured my best option was to lampoon both at the same time in comic form.
Can a Bard use his Lore Master ability to take 10 in combat or when threatened or distracted?
(This seems an FAQ/errata candidate)
The issue is that Loremaster doesn't clearly make that point the same way the Rogues Skill Mastery talent does. At face value this leaves the Lore Master take 10 as redundant to the general take 10 rule.
A related issue is if you are allowed to take 10 on Knowledge skills at all. The skills do not make an exception as Use Magic Device does. Unless this is an oversight and should be corrected.
Who's having fun in the multiplayer? Or single player? The avatar system for pickup games is interesting. It also isn't decimating my graphics card like I thought it would.
If only there was some way to mod that engine and get some fantasy battles out of it :P .
I know this should likely going the general rules question area, but it will likely come up most often with the Magus so I'm asking now...
Do ray spells provoked an attack of opportunity if cast defensively?
Can ray spells provoke two attacks of opportunity if not cast defensively? (against l combat reflexes)
Both stem from the corner case that Ray spells make Ranged attack, which themselves normally provoke outside of spell.
Example: a magus smacks a kobold with a sword in spell combat, but it doesnt die. He follows up with a (successfully) defensively cast Ray of Frost. Does the kobold get to take a swing at him for making a Ranged attack?
I realize this is well outside the playtest window but I don't get to game with regular group as often I'd like anymore so I wasn't able to run a live Magus until recently.
I will be posting the party stat blocks when I can get a hold of their sheets. The important points of the party are as follows:
• 4d6 drop lowest stats (we all got lucky with solid ranges of 15 to 12, nothing stellar but nothing crippling)
• Starting at Level 1 (Magus Starting Gold/Age?)
• Elf Cleric
• Human Monk
• Elf Magus (me)
What follows is a crosspost from another forum with more intelligible after analysis. Enjoy what was probably the most humiliating game of D&D or Pathfinder I have played in almost 15 years of gaming....
Spoiler:
Well okay, skipping the world detail the party began at 1st level, an Elf Cleric, a Monk, and me the Elf Magus. This is rare as parties are typically all human or me as odd gnome out 50% of the time. The party was basically hired to clear a caven of Kobolds. Now we didn't have to kill them just get them to leave.
Perhaps in an over display of bravado my Magus tries to Intimidate them into leaving. Taking a minute to shout our demands into the cave (low roll). With no response we proceed inside. At the first pocket caven the group sport the first kobold trap and walks around it. Here is where it gets bad. The two kobolds waiting in abush in that pocket nail my Magus with sling shots, with one criticaling, the Magus is down to 1 hp (high damage rolls, we tend to play open rolls so we all saw).
In the rounds, I believe it took almost a minute (10 rounds) to bring down two kobolds. Rolls were bad and we did try to take every advantage, I even began throwing cantrip ray attacks in desperation. The Magus and Monk Hp yo-yoed thanks to the cleric only rolling 1s and 2s on channel energy (noticing a bad luck trend here?). Finally we get a lucky streak and they go down. At this point we debate, press on or fall back. Taking stock the cleric still had enough healing to keep us going despite the bad luck star we seem to be operating under, so we press on.
Entering the next cave we get a persceprion warning about more kobolds so I cast Shield (for just that extra bit of AC), stepping around we again attempt to convince them to leave without slaughter, this effort is compounded by the presence of whelps (childeren). No go and we're attacked.
Bad luck persist but for all sides with us going a few rounds of pure miss. This has gone form frustrating to almost comical. Then the worst luck strikes. Our cleric gets hit twice, one high rolled critical and drops (-4 HP). In a mad scramble me (Magus) and Monk were left facing a single kobold. I left the Monk to try and stall it while I stabilized the cleric. That took two rounds with more missing.
Knowing my luck was not going to cut it even with a ranged touch I fell back on Daze. Normally I don't like this cantrip because it takes your action for a small chance to take away a foes action. However with the Magus 2nd level ability I saw some possibilities.
So I cast Daze, and it worked, but the Monk missed. Daze, Monk miss. Daze, Monk miss. DAZE, Monk MISS! (I think the Tetris god has a twin brother). Again almost a minute of game time as I keep the Kobold daze locked and the Monk keeps missing. I think this is perhaps the first time combat ran faster then real time.
Finally it is done with yet another level down to clear in the cave. At this point we follow an ancient elven warrior proverb, it sounds better in elvish I swear.
"Run away, come back, and burn the place down."
So we limped back to the nearby village and lick our wounds and ready ourselves to have another go (which will be another post later).
Part 2
Spoiler:
Picking up where the last kobold mishap left off. My Magus, a Cleric, and a Monk ventured back to the kobold cave the next day to finish what we started. The first level of cave remained clear and had not been repopluated by guards, the bodies had been removed. Our hope was that the kobolds had decided to clear out after all.
That hope was not to be when we descended to the next level. As we rounded the corner into the largest cavern we'd seen in the place we were all hit by a Sleep spell (spellcraft told us so) from the Kobold shaman. I guess he failed his knowledge(local) because 2 of the 3 party members were elves and thus immune to it. The Monk made his save. Advantage the party for once .
Battle was on, us vs the shaman and his two remaining bodyguards. The Monk and myself rushed to engage body guards unfortunately for me it seems that the insults and aspersions I had throw at the party clerics ancestor gods were still haunting me (Did I mention that last time? I don't think I did, my Magus is quite the practical secularist... for now... considering how much positive energy has been channeled into him from the Cleric that my change soon.). However the Monk is luckier and puts his target down. A very lucky sling stone from the Cleric puts my target down.
Now it's just the shaman to deal with. At this point if your eyes haven't flicked ahead you may wish to pause and discuss among yourselves what misfortune is about to befall the group....
Ready with your answers?
On its turn the shaman shifts slightly and then raised both hands fingers pointed right at us and... Royal Rainbow! Both the Monk and my Magus got hit by color spray and failed our saves. We were down, unconscious, stunned, blinded, and totally out of the fight. This left the Cleric to save the day. He and the shaman traded sling stones and crossbow bolts for close to forty seconds of in-game time before the cleric managed to score some hits.
Ya the fight was done the kobolds who hadn't take the warning to clear out were... uh... dead at last. Only they weren't all dead. The two whelps were still alive. While the Monk and the Cleric were searching the big room I decided I was going to scare them and chase them out of the cave, I didn't want to kill them myself after all. Well it worked but as so much else this escapade it backfired. The whelps ran passed my Magus but in doing so ran right over the trigger for a pit trap, a 10 ft. by 10 ft. pit trap, part of which I was standing on as well. Of course I failed the reflex save and down I and the whelps went.
As my character was falling I decided he was going to have a change in his overall alignment and attitude. He had started out Chaotic Good and had wanted to give the Kobolds a fair chance to leave the cave without blood shed. After all a dragon was going to be taking up residence shortly so it's not like they could have stayed in the cave anyways. But every time he tried to show mercy or respect their right to live as sentient creatures it backfired hideously. As his head connected with the floor of the pit it became clear, "stop going out your way to help other creatures" was the clear message. *Crack* -4 HP, CG -> CN.
End Adventure 1: "We came, we saw, we got stoned by kobolds."
"Today's Experiment... Failed!!!" -Excel Saga
Next time on This Bumbling Magus, "Refuge in Refuse! Can I make a Headdress out of that?"
Part 3
Spoiler:
Well my Magus got better with a little divine intervention from the party Cleric. He will like need to refrain from bad mouthing the gods in the future. After reporting our 'eventual' success to the village and our egos slightly buoyed by with a moderate collection of treasure, we pressed on to closest large town in search of a cartographer who may just know the location of a lost city our Monk companion's order set him to search for.
My magus spent the first day in town restocking on supplies, a few potions of magical healing, a wand of more healing for our cleric (hope that appeases his gods ), and some materials so I could begin scribing scrolls as we travel (I love the revisions to the item creation rules, if a scroll or potion is 250 gp or less it can be made in 2 hours. During travel days you can spend 4 hours during the various stops and rests to craft 2 hours worth of items, so 1 scroll of 250 gp per day of non-combat travel )
Meanwhile the Cleric and Monk tracked down the scholar so we could continue on our next stage of the journey. As such things go for heroes things are never as simple as just paying for a map. The Scolar didn't know the actual location of the city but knew of a tome in bowels of city sewer . (First getting K.O.ed by Kobolds now a trek through a sewer, this is not what heroic adventuring of a sword swing magus was supposed to be.)
The party reconvened at the entrance. Both elves (cleric and magus) complained bitterly the smell (recall elves have a +2 to perception which is sight, sound, taste, touch and smell in Pathfinder) with many disparaging remarks about human waste management practices. Given the choice of wading through the flowing gutter or making our way slowly along a ledge, we opted for the ledge. However it wasn't long before we set upon by a trio of dog sized rats. Following the misfortune of the kobolds things started looking better for party. All except the Magus, who's rat found a gap in his chainshirt and inflicted a savage bite (plus the attendant fortitude save which was failed and is likely going to create much pain in the sessions to come).
A furious melee commenced to beat back the rats. The Monk downed his quickly, followed in short order by the cleric dispatching his rat. Meanwhile the magus swung repeatedly and futilely, finally getting assistance from the Monk and the Cleric in dispatching the rat. Much disheartened the Magus continues to lead the party forward only to encounter the next obstacle.
With elven sense overwhelmed by putrefaction we didn't notice the swarm of rats until it was almost upon us. The party began to retreat from the chittering horde as we considered our supplies and options. In a bout of collective creativity the Magus and Monk devised a Molotov cocktail from an oil flask and cloth, while the Cleric peppered the rats with sing stones. In desperation the Monk lit the fuse before the Magus could hand it to him, as the Monk had demonstrated far more robust luck at this point. This left the Magus to throw, which almost ended in disaster if not for some extraordinary last minute luck (read GM Fiat giving us Action points, an optional pool of d6s that can be rolled to increase a save, attack, or skill roll). Under a followup barrage of stones and a few cantrips the swarm dispersed and the adventures... avoided taking deep lung fulls of air in relief.
Following the scholar's map of the warren we soon discovered what the rats had been fleeing. A large reptile with massive jaws and thick powerful tail lunged erupted from the muck. However luck finally turned as it failed to snap its jaws on the Magus. Again battle erupted between the ledge bound party and a creature from sludge. Pelted by fists and stones the reptile (crocodile) swung its tail and snapped at the Magus without success. In a heretofore undemonstrated mastery of the longsword the Magus stabbed the creature in its open mouth, putting an end to fight but leaving the Magus's sword stuck through the creatures head (At long last, a two-handed confirmed critical with the sword my Magus had been swing about like a fool). At the Monks insistence the creature was wrangled up onto the walkway in the hopes it could be retrieved later. Something about making robes out of it.
Much heartened by the parties seeming turn of fortune we continued, finding a stairway which lead down into a long abandoned twisting passageway. At the end we found a thick wood door untouched by the rot and moisture one would expect. It was assumed the door was magically warded in some fashion, yet it failed to respond for distant magical nudging (open/close). Not wishing to abandon the hunt and back track to hire a suitably skilled expert, the Monk and the Magus decided to bravely face whatever cures awaited them. Putting their shoulders into it they rammed the door... and almost dislocated their joints when the door failed to yield. A subsequent paired kick brought better results from the stubborn lock but a brought gout of magical flame which singed both adventures.
Slightly charred but triumphant the party began to judiciously plunder the now open library vault until they came across the tome they were to fetch. Resting alone on a lectern, in the center of the room, surrounded by a faded circle of runes. Taking a cue from the ominous positioning the party prepared itself. When ready the Monk quickly stanched the book from its resting spot and stuffed it into his pack. As he turned to run a pentagram under the tome flared with red light. In the next moment the lectern was engulfed in a mass of molten flesh stubby half-formed limbs and barely recognizable face.
In horror the Monk just managed to dodge the creatures grasp and made a dash for the exit. Cleric also retreated into the corridor but not without a parting sling stone. Unfazed and possibly over confident in his recent success the Magus took a moment to Shield himself and then stepped up to bar the creatures path. Apparently of simple mind the creature took the bait and attacked Magus, only to be thwarted by magical shield. Still wary the Monk returned and loaded a crossbow to fire, while the Cleric continued to pepper the mound with stones, and the Magus hacked with sword (to everyones happy surprise finding his target). The Flesh creature again tried to bat the Magus out of its way but again was thwarted.
A followup of stone and bolt put further pain to the creature. In a fit of deviousness the Magus deliberately gave it an opening (Attack of Opportunity) as he charged his hand for a Shocking Grasp. Again the combination of magic shield and armor blunted the creatures attack, and it was reduced to a puddle of steaming goo by the electric touch.
Victorious the party returned to the surface, lugging their reptile prize as well. While the Magus went of with some quickly hired towns folk to negotiate skinning of the lizard (robes and accessories for the monk, and a crocodile headdress for the Magus), the Monk and Cleric returned to the scholar. Unfortunately they found his shop ransacked and no sign of the employer of the moment. A quick investigation of the shop was cut short by the town guard who were not deceived by the fanciful tales both adventures tried to spin about being in the shop. They were sure to and in irons until a final more believable lie was presented by the cleric and only cost them one of the old books we salvaged from the library.
Not so long a yarn.
An important build note, I did not take Combat Casting but instead Scribe Scroll. So I do not have that +4 everyone considers critical for a successful Magus.
In keeping an eye to playtesting the, aside from the outright abysmal luck it was fairly fun to play a more combat focused partial caster. Bards were my most played class in 3.5 so I'm used to oddities of a light armor 3/4 caster although I haven't played a caster in live game since Pathfinder was released.
One thing I wanted to try were the at-will cantrips I never would have before. Flare, Daze, and a ranged touch damage spell as backup. My other draw was using cantrips in combination with Spell Combat... which will have to wait a few weeks for the next game at 2nd level.
Spellstrike was a pointlessly cool ability. I never got a chance to use it despite keeping a Shocking Grasp in reserve in a slot that could have gone to something more valuable... like more Shield. The problem was that tactically I never had a good chance to precast it and hold the charge. The one time I had a reasonable opportunity, I hit with the touch attack so wasn't able to try using my normal attack with it. As written it's a difficult ability to use. I'm not going to precast and hold a touch spell when my better survival option is to cast shield at the start of combat and the move into melee. After that I need to disengage, cast defensively, or risk an AoO. The chance of losing an action and possibly the spell aren't in a low level characters favor. I took a risk in play based on a few attacks of not getting to risk the AoO over my low chances of defensive casting. I gambled and casting Shocking Grasp like that worked that time. I can see how at mid levels there would be more opportunity use it with more slots and longer lasting defensive buffs... but it feels like a flashy extravagance at lower levels that sucks actions and spells away from more vital actions.
The d8 HD even with a 12 Con did not give the Magus much in the way of a cushion while up in the front line. I was not unprepared for this given the melee bard I once played, but it is still a bit of a rollercoster. It would have been nice to have a Temporary HP buff spell on the Magus life. I also draw parallels with the Psionic Warrior who uses powers much the same way to help cover low HP and AC. A first level spell that gave even 2 extra HP would have made my list in place of Enlarge Person. Without a low level HP buff spell it doesn't feel as "natural" as moving into melee should for this class. I could have taken the extra HP for favored class but that seemed like a drop in the bucket of hurt that was going to come... I also like more skilled characters generally.
Daze locking, repeatedly picking on a single foe with a weak will save, was surprisingly effective use of my action while my luck was being consistently bad. Once I get Spell Combat I feel confident in taking a -4 and the forced -2 concentration check every so often to attack and cast daze at the same time. Although given how I managed to pull off Shocking Grasp with the risked AoO it would be nice to have the option of risking the AoO over making the check, especially without Combat Casting the AoO may sometimes be the less risky option.
I just read that these penalties may be reduced to -2 and no concentration penalty. That works even better add feels much more on concept. If I had that version of Spell Combat at 1st level I would have cast far more cantrips in combat instead of just missing with my longsword. With my luck at the time I likely would have failed at both, but it would have felt like I was doing more.
As I start play for 2nd level I may take advantage of a memorized arcane caster's option to not prepare all my spells at once and leave some gaps to fill in those 15 minute spurts. Especially once I've filled the survival critical spells (Shield, Daze) and have some free. That needs to be made clear in the Magus entry because I can see rule-lawyer hard cases disputing the Magus's ability to use that important option.
I really did/do like playing the Magus. It's different enough right now to the PsiWarrior of 3.5 to be interesting... but it could stand to move a little closer. The likely upcoming change in Spell Combat should do that. I really want to see an expanded spell list. Again I'll have the party statblocks up later today I dont even have my sheet on hand at the moment.
This may be a bit cross-topic, but with the Ultimate Magic play test of the Magus going on I have yet again smack into the topics of "number crunching only gets you so far, you need to play the game." However there typically isn't enough time to run hundreds of games that are need to really investigate a classes interaction with Pathfinder as a whole.
So I again wonder, what if we could simulate those games. Not just the statistical dice results but the whole flow of combat. Insane? Perhaps. Impossible? Not with todays tools, or even tools 5 to 10 years old. D&D (and by extent pathfinder) has already been digitized may times and the underlying combat rules put to AI for video games. Why not go further and automate it, including simulation for player and DM attitudes or preferences.
This is agent based modeling, creating complex interactions from simple rules and aggregate behavior of individual actors. If you are someone who hasn't encountered agent based modeling before, or has really paid attention check out this site and program.
My own coding skills are a bit atrophied and mostly limited to AppleScript, bits of unix ShellScript, and what I half remember from Java/CC++/VB, and barely recall from NetLogo itself. Personally I think NetLogo would provide a solid starting point. It already has a graphical interface coded (for altering variables, etc), it is spatial and can simulate the game board, and is object oriented.
So I guess I'm asking, would anyone be interested in helping create an agent based computer model of Pathfinder Combat?
I know the wording says size so I assume that a Medium Human can't swap places with a Small Halfling ally. I'm just hoping this was a mistaken word choice and it was supposed to be Spaces.
I was wondering if anyone else has used or has looked at Google Sketchup as a way to create art assets for their home game. I've started using it in several other contexts but I was curious if anyone has had a head start on creating their own fantasy RPG material with it.
By request and goading, I'm just about ready to start a Play by Post and Playtest exclusively for the Summoner class. I am looking for a party of 4 to 5 Summoners.
This is a 7th level adventure which has made the voyage from AD&D all the way through 3rd, and is now going to be rebulit by me for a romp through Pathfinder.
Allowed Materials:
• All material from Pathfinder Core, save classes
• Content from Pathfinder Adventure Paths
• Some lower Level monster races from the Pathfinder Beastiary (although I would much perfer Core races only)
• Traits from the Pathfinder Traits download.
• Pathfinder Chronical setting material, player companions, guides, and such is also allowable. But check with for the 3.5 content to see if it needs adjustment for Pathfinder.
At this time I cannot allow other material, even OGL content.
Starting Level: 7th
Races: Core + possibility of Beastairy races
Classes: Only Summoner!
Stats: Standard Fanasty (15) point buy
Gold: 23,500
Aligments: Any, but must be able to work in a group.
EXP track: Fast (EXP will be awarded asap for challenges and if there is a level up it can be done instantly)
I've begun turning my brain towards what a Summoner only party would look like. Normally this is an almost absolute no-no with most classes (although I seem to recall the 3.5 Cleric worked out well as a party of 4). The Eidolon has some amazing flexibility as has been demonstrated in the sample eidolon thread, so I'm naturally curious if the summoner can be made to fit all four main party rolls.
Any thoughts on how to approach this multi-build puzzle. Builds for the eidolons, and builds for individual summoners?
This revelation has amused me to no end this morning. I was chatting with a fellow over on another forum and came to the realization that a high level Paladin who had Catch Off-Guard and likely Improvised Weapon Mastery could create a +5 Holy Speed formerly-demonic-washboard and proceed to bash fiends with it. It brought me to a whole new understanding of "A Paladin in Hell."
Catch Off-Guard is quickly becoming one of my favorite feats and I thank the development crew for keeping it in the final game. The amount of levity inherent in the uses of this feat seems to unmatched.
(split for my suggestions, to keep Paizo suggestions clean)
I currently have a few working-ideas myself for dealing excessive HD in a Monster. Use the Pathfinder Negative Levels (see page 562, PFRPG Core). These impose a variety of penalties that will generally bring the benefits derived from a monsters racial HD down to levels on par with the rest of the 'standard' party. It could even be taken a step further to include the reduction in initiate spell casting abilities and other powers, creating a "Monster Nerf Level" if you will.
For the old high LA but low HD races, the use of NPC classes is a good suggestion for giving them a base HD without any real increase in power. With the lack of an EXP penalty for multiclassing it makes even more sense. However it does leave a PC with a dangling class and can have an unintended impact on saving throws. My counter to the use of NPC classes is to take at trick from the d20 Modern SRD on dealing with Ordinary (or NPC) characters in that game. The idea is that you strip the PC class of all of its class features which creates the ordinary class. Take the Fighter and the Warrior. Instead of having a Teifling start as a Warrior and then multiclass into Fighter, you strip the Fighter of its class features for the first level and keep its class abilities at an effective -1 until something like an XP Debt/Buy-Off is reached. This really still is a working-concept and needs some good rules language to back it, and make it easier to utilize.
The area where I'm stumped currently is how to deal with over-powered stats. It is easy enough to just add 'nerf' levels an impose can be bought off over time, but redistributing high base stat modifiers is the tricky part. What should the 'base?' How quickly to the stats return to the 'monster' values? What to do about Intelligence? This also comes a problem of trying to balance out low to no HD monsters that used to have high LAs.
I know there are guidelines (not RAW rules) out there to be can created that will work decently well and allow DMs and Players to negotiate the use of monster characters in a more formalized and standardized way.
1st) I guess this could apply to Dirge of Doom and just Intimidate as well but Dazzling Display is more dramatic.
• Dirge of Doom allows you to make a foe Shaken but doesn't allow you to make a currently Shaken foe Frightened.
• Dazzling Display makes use Intimidate to make a foes Shaken.
• A foe who is Shaken becomes Frightened due to Fear stacking.
Currently the way everything is worded if you use Dirge of Doom and then Dazzling Display you can attempt to make foes Frightened. Dirge makes them Shaken, Dazzling stacks to make the frightened.
Done the other way, Dazzling first, Dirge second, the foe is only Shaken.
Should Dirge of Dooms Shaken condition not count toward Fear stacking at all?
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2nd) How many targets does Dirge of Doom effect? All foes within 30 feet?
I am seriously starting to reconsider the wisdom of having At Will spell-like abilities replace 0 level spells. In a previous playtest my players demonstrated how Create Water (a 0 level Cleric and Druid spell) could be used in very destructive ways that should really be beyond its spell level.
Now we have exhibit B. Guidance, yet another 0 level Cleric and Druid spell. Although this only provides a one time bonus to a single roll, a party with advanced warning can have their Cleric or Druid pre-cast this spell. In a combat situation this is a poor tactic as there are other ability such a character can utilize. However in non-combat Skill Checks, it could be used to boost rolls where other skill boost are unavailable.
To illustrate the point I'd like you to picture this man as a dwarf druid with a charisma of 3. The party is tracking Goblins away from Sandpoint the day after the opening of Burnt Offerings. The druid player used Guidance to boost his survival skill roll. To which I inform him that generally a bonus on a skill check needs to be constant for the whole period, not just the start of the check. Meh, maybe not but here's what was generated as a result.
Every 6 seconds the dwarf druid then renewed Guidance and was dead sexy about it. To quote the player, "when I think about tracking I touch myself. When I think about goblins I touch myself." This went on for hours in-game (only a few minutes out-of-game).
I thought the good folks a Paizo would like read the unintended results of what would seem like a good solution.
Several rules come to mind in retrospect that would have... okay I'm not sure anything could have stopped this. First casting that spell takes a standard action which is already in use tracking. Second I should have had this characters patron deity (Gozreh) begin weeping (raining) openly, to be sure the druid won't be getting access to Guidance again for a while.
I'm still okay with 0-level spells being At Will, however all DMs should be prepared to handle 'creative and disturbing applications' of infinite low-level magic.
So I finally got my real world group to try the new rules, the first time they have used any of the Alpha release rules. Getting them to switch rule sets is like trying to pull teeth without anesthetic. Going from 2nd to 3rd edition require a several months sales pitch. 3e to 3.5 was equally difficult. I was threatened with a violence and various kinds of torture if I tried to push 4e on them. They are still highly skeptical about 3.P.
On to the comments, concerns, and praises. This game only got them through initial character creation and the opening fights in Burnt Offerings.
Character Creation:
The party currently consists of: Elven Barbarian, Elven Wizard(Evoker), Human Fighter, Dwarven Druid. Their stats were (4d6 drop lowest) fairly decent, as typical for this group, being slightly above or around 32 point-buy equivalent. The only oddity was the Dwarven Druid who ended up with a 7 Intelligence and a 3 Charisma.
I got almost no comments on character creation, good or bad. They had no real comments or complaints about the alterations to the races. Although the Dwarf player was surprised at the changes to the Half-Orc, and pick Dwarf because of it's minus to charisma instead. The Fighter player had some additional comments.
1) On the Pathfinder elf ear art style and I quote, "are absurd and I hate them." The follow up agreement comments for the rest of the group were, this is not anime or WoW, and other like comments.
2) The Fighter player remains, convinced, as does the rest of group, that Humans remain the best race in the game. They only got better with additions in Pathfinder. +2 to Any Stat, a Bonus Feat, an extra skill point, and any favored calls make the human a superior choice to any of the other races. The Fighter player also groused about not benefiting from the free Martial Weapon. I did point out that Alpha 1 had humans with an any free weapon, to which he just laughed said that would have been like giving the human 2 free feats and there would be no point in playing any other race at all.
An odd question from me that has I'm sure has come up already. Why isn't the Half-Orc's second favored class Druid?
The Wizard and Dwarf players both like the changes in the classes, especially the schools and domains. It is interesting to note that allow charisma Druids can now opt out animal companions so they aren't hindered by them. The Barbarian player (who often plays druid) was not overly happy with the change in wildshape, we'll see how that goes. He did like the rage points and began using them for strategic single round rages. Although he is worried about the costs for some of the higher level rage abilities, being to high.
Wizard item binding is still needs some serious work!
• For example there needs to be a section of text that deals with picking a new bonded object even if your first isn't destroyed. This was brought up by the Wizard player who is looking at playing a Arcane Archer and was worried about being force to loss or destroy his current bonded Bow in order to replace it with a Masterworked Bow latter.
• It also needs to be clearly addressed (in the rules text) if a bound object that has been enchanted is recreated with full enchantments or not (preferably not IMO).
• I (me personally) still have some problems with the way the bonded item works off the Wizard's spells know. If a Wizard has his or her spell-book destroyed what does that do the the Bonded item's ability to cast spells. Do the be book(s) have to be on the wizards person? What if the Wizard doesn't know it was destroyed. How long does that "knowledge" last? Can the Wizard use a borrowed spell book and the spells he prepares from with the Bonded item?
For the Cleric and Druid there need to be clearer guide lines for violating(going against) a Deity or Nature. You will see why lower down.
Non-Character Creation comments and General Combat Impressions
I gave the characters and extra 6 HP (as suggested). This was quite useful and actually saved a character from some bad placement and bad luck. The Wizard jump out in front of his meat shield body guards and attempted to burning hands a group of goblins. He didn't kill any of them. They had waited and so charged him, doing 11 damage (one critical) total despited the 15 AC from Mage Armor. Without those extra 6 HP he would have dropped sure. I know some people are thinking that there is to much HP floating around at low levels but I would say the 6 HP is working fine at keeping 1st level characters alive while still letting them get stuffing knocked out of them by 1st level goblins. Fortunately the Wizard was saved by the Mule riding Fighter. (How he was passing the ride checks I don't know, I will be checking his dice for weights, again, next session. They never have been, but his luck is almost to good.)
This brings us to the last and major problem of the session, Create Water. I do not jest. With the new At-Will for Cantrips and Orisons, Create Water (under the druid and cleric) is now highly dangerous and will be used by creative players to cause serious havoc. Possible uses that my group game up with in typical pre-game chatter:
• Flood a Dungeon. While the least likely it is both a comical and terrifying example. A 20th level cleric or druid can generate 400 (40 per round) gallons of water a minute. While this is much like the decanter of endless water flooding it does not require an item (which can be destroyed/stolen).
• Sink/Flood a Ship. A druid who manages to infiltrate a ship (say by wild shape) can sink it in short order. Even a 4th level druid, or likely 6th, can generate 8 to 12 gallons a round (80 to 120 per minute). About 640 pounds and 10 cubic feet of water per minute.
• Mudslide or Flash Flood. If the cleric or druid can exceed the local ground's infiltration rate he could create a localized slide or flash flood. This really depends on the conditions of the environment.
• Find Pit Traps, and pressure plates. It can also be used to determine the slop of a corridor. Filling pit traps, or just pits, is also an option.
Now, I'm not saying a cleric or druid shouldn't be able to such things. But this is using a 0-level spell. I and my group recommend that Create Water be move up to 1st level for Parthfinder. The ability to create 2 gallons or water per caster level at-will is possibility a little to much. One other way to stop a druid or cleric from doing this is to pull the "it's against deity and nature" line, and the reason I would like to see that be a little more defined.
That concludes the first game of testing. There should hopefully be more to come.
